Would Analog Controls Fix Super Mario 64 DS?

A question that I and may others have wondered about for years. Only since recently have we've been able to answer it.
Apologies for the audio spikes with my mic, I'm looking to obtain a better one in the future.
Outro Song: Frogger (PS1) - Menu

[@Mr.Welbig]

I must say where the hell did all of you lovely people come from? I never would have expected this dumb video to shoot up out of nowhere in the past few days! Either way thank you all very much for watching! :D I also want to add I have played the DS version with the circle pad. It's how I fully 100% it for the first time. YES it does FEEL better than the D-Pad, but it isn't true analog and still only operates in 8 directions. I feel the analog mod still controls a little better imho. More power to those who can play with the circle pad with no issues! I am aware of the plastic nub that would strap on the thumb to use on the touchscreen. I'll admit I've never used it, and assumed it wouldn't be much better than using the stylus. However several have commented that actually using it works quite well with the physical exertion of the nub sorta replicating the physical resistance of an analog stick. While I can't speak from experience, it's another option people can consider on how they wanna play Mario 64 DS, which is the most important thing! As far as 64DS feeling more consistent than the original, I agree! The originals controls can be just as alienating as the DS version, and the DS's controls are more in tune with Galaxy, 3D Land/World, and Odyssey. This is simply a case of me just preferring how the original handled, mainly when it comes to performing all the speed run tricks. I guess I could have added that the DS version may control better for those who are after a more casual/traditional experience. Finally I never forgot about all the content the DS version added, it was simply not the topic of this video however. Unfortunately no amount of new content can help if many people find the controls alienating to begin with. Though I'm happy for those who enjoy the extra content, while enjoying how the DS version controls! Believe me, I wish it didn't bug me as much as it does, even if im more forgiving to most DS detractors. Once again thank you all who sat through this garbage video, I'm hoping to make more of much better quality in the coming months!

[@Pop4484]

KZbin recommendations brought me here

[@Forsaken.Wanderer]

KZbin works in very odd ways

[@georgebushlover]

Great video and introduction, hope for the best

[@vibingone101]

The algorithm blessed you my friend

[@I_SuperHiro_I]

Work, lol. That’s where I’ve been. 60 hour weeks for like 11 months now.

[@mr.funnyguy1164]

I really hope someone someday learns to either fix mario 64 ds' controls to be more snappy or have a version of the original 64 with all of the extra content added in from DS

[@apirlfools]

Unlikely but best outcome would be if either a fan or nintendo rebuilds the game from scratch keeping the best elements of both games while also upgrading them and adding more onto it

[@apirlfools]

if its a fan tho adding more onto it would be asking to much and just updating the textures and rebuilding it with the best features from both games

[@mariochaosspear]

There are mod projects that are trying to add DS content to the original Mario 64. Last I checked, they figured out how to implement the silver stars in the old engine.

[@powernotgamer447]

@@mariochaosspear Do the owners of these projects have a KZbin channel?

[@dortoka]

There’s a patch for analog controls online. Not sure if it works, will try it out

[@WackoMcGoose]

As someone whose first Mario 64 experience was the DS port, I _genuinely could not tell_ that the original levels were designed for an analog stick. Nintendo put so much thought into making it eight-directionally playable, that I just assumed that was the way the DS version was "intended" to be played, and I had no trouble with it.

[@dr.c2195]

I can imagine. I had no problems adjusting to the D-pad, either. It still seems good to me. I do not know what people are complaining about. Maybe they just need to improve their 3D platforming skills.

[@velocirapper8862]

I havent played since i was a kid, but i dont remember any problems either. Although that was a long time ago, and ive also gone back to play sm64 aftet not remembering any problems with that game as well, but the camera is awful. I even played sunshine and was suprised that the camera was better than sm64, but still pretty rough for me to get used to, which is also something i just didnt have a problem with as a kid. So im curious and i kinda want to pick up sm64ds again just to see what it was like.

[@drballs-zd6ye]

Me too

[@A_Ali173]

Same with me

[@ElectroBlastLuigi]

Same, I didn't know Super Mario 64 was a thing even though Mario Kart 64 was the first game I've ever played. The console came out around the time I was born. I was introduced to the DS port when the DS Lite came out and I don't remember having any problems with the controls. Played it again a decade later and I still didn't had any problems.

[@robot9604]

Another detail that bothers me a lot with the DS version, is that you cannot use your Triple-Jump on a "Non-walkable-sloped" surface. In N64, you can triple jump on relatively steep hills.

[@Manavine]

Considering how they massarced Cat Mario in super mario maker 2, I'd chalk it up to INTENTIONAL game "fixing"

[@Hamster07]

@@Manavine It might just be something that they overlooked, considering that the game was built from the ground up (?)

[@HistoryandReviews]

OH NOOOOO! THE WORLD IS OVER BECAUSE OF THIS ONE DETAIL

[@robot9604]

@@HistoryandReviews Truth! It's a tragedy!! Let us curl up and cry

[@solidzack]

This "small" issue piles up with the other missing movement options, like Speed kicking and chaining a dive immediately onto any jump and as a result makes the DS version feel more restrictive and less fun, even without the D-Pad controls in mind

[@jpolo1224]

Having SM64DS on Wii U with the analog camera patch from the home brew store makes playing 64 DS awesome. I’m finally revisiting it for the first time in like 12 years

[@jaguar4120]

How do I install the patch update?

[@reddinulus]

@@jaguar4120 how would he know

[@rajgus7638]

@@reddinulus ??? Ofc he would know. How else would've he installed it

[@Waddlejpg]

3ds version?

[@StockpileThomas1]

​@@WaddlejpgPlaying on 3DS isn't that much better unfortunately

[@arlisbloxer05]

Something to note here: Back in the day with the original DS it came with a wrist strap that had a plastic nub at the bottom. Apparently that was INTENDED for use with games that used the touch screen for movement or camera controls. While that wasn't the best it was still the only "proper" solution for analog-style movement for SM64DS on real hardware. Also at the time of writing this, someone is currently working on an AR code patch for 64DS intended to give proper circle pad compatibility for the 3DS via twilightmenu. I haven't personally tried it yet due to my 3DS still in need of a new battery, but if anyone else wants to take a stab at it feel free to do so!

[@hola-gy8te]

where can i find this patch i wanna try it out

[@kazzz8397]

fr

[@Waddlejpg]

@@hola-gy8te source or did you make this up?

[@pessoaanonima6345]

Tested it and it works perfectly

[@VGMoose]

There's a sign in the game that also instructs you to use the thumb pad. And, movement is like an on screen joystick, relative to where you initially touch down, not based on the map icon. So it's more like a phone's touch joystick.

[@spacetoastgames6578]

I feel like this argument is mostly made by people who don't know these differences exist. Considering that's most people, this video does a fantastic job of explaining why that isn't true. Even so, I think the fundamental argument they're trying to make is "if this game controlled like the original it would fix it" which is still 100% valid.

[@Mr.Welbig]

Oh absolutely. It's just when the analog mod was making the rounds, and people claiming it "fixes" Mario 64 DS, I couldn't help but feel it was disingenuous since there's so much more going on with 64DS than just the lack of analog.

[@spacetoastgames6578]

@@NumberOneRated1997 indeed

[@PastaMaster115]

One thing people don't really mention when discussing this game is that the original NDS used to come with a wrist strap that had a thumb stylus. So you could fit it on your thumb and use the touch screen like an analog stick. It's totally dumb that later iterations of the DS and 3DS didn't come with this accessory. It really made Mario 64 DS way more playable.

[@Raddish-IS-Radd]

Seems like a waist of time and money to put it in later versions especially the 3ds

[@vortexlisa]

Yes! That's what I used to use.

[@tpower1912]

It worked surprisingly well too once you got used to it

[@yungmatt009]

Playing it on the 3ds first time was amazing. My hands finally didn’t hurt after playing 64 DS. The touchscreen controls always felt weird.

[@nighthawkj30A4]

Same 😎

[@olevet75]

Does work on 3da natively with left thumstick without need for modification

[@MeesterTweester]

I think it's interesting since I grew up with the DS version and didn't have the original, I thought it was an amazing version. I didn't have the original to compare it too so as kid I thought it controlled fine. I still think it's worth a play due to the added Stars, 4 characters to play, and the minigames.

[@marianokaz1503]

Same honestly, my first encounter with the original Mario 64 was at a kid's party place with an arcade cabinet with so many game roms on it and that game was there and I thought it was a rip-off of Mario 64 DS! Then recently I played that Mario 64 myself and Mario 64 DS and comparing both is like day and night!

[@Jandro_33]

I also had a similar experience: I grew up with SM64DS, so in the time I was happy with the controls as I couldn't compare them before to the original version because I didn't own one. It wasn't until a few years ago when I played the original version and realized the difference between the D-Pad and the Joy-Stick controls, but not at all first because I played it on a keyboard and I felt the same D-Pad experience of the video.

[@HistoryandReviews]

Worthless added stars and 4 characters that aren’t needed since they did everything Mario could do ALONE on 64

[@MarceloKatayama]

@@HistoryandReviews Not really. Luigi is positively broken.

[@HistoryandReviews]

@@MarceloKatayama wrong

[@bulb9970]

Gets straight to the point ✔️ Good writing ✔️ Nice audio ✔️ No ads ✔️ Getting a great small channel recommended by the algorithm is a gift

[@floobix1]

They cant control ads tho if their channel is monetized

[@siddanthvenkatesh2744]

I grew up 64DS on my 3ds and honestly the circle pad makes the movement feel "normal". It has that slight snap which makes the movement feel precise yet the circle still makes it feel like have 360 degree movement even though you only have 8 directions. This all might just be muscle memory from play 64ds over and over.

[@TetraBitGaming]

Awesome video! As someone that grew up playing SM64DS and now mostly playing the original, I couldn't quite put all my distaste for the DS controls into words, but this was basically it!

[@AzumarillConGafasBv]

oh hi

[@Laenthor]

Pretty sure that the weirdness of the side jump on ds with stick is because when you're "moving" the point on the touchscreen there' never a deadzone. I think it's due to how it was programmed in the game and if there was a workaround it should feel much better.

[@Dragonscor]

I unironically prefer the dpad. I have a mild disability in my left thumb that makes it very difficult to move straight forward with a stick. I struggle to do even the early levels in mario 64 with analog. The Ds dpad makes it much easier for me and its more comfortable. the only mild issue is the camera.

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

Having such a disability must suck. I don't have it myself, but I can oddly relate having played the Dreamcast version of the Toy Story 2 game, which has analogue control so bad you can't move straight with it.

[@IceBlueLugia]

Not the same thing at all but I can’t use side by side sticks on PS controllers and similar controllers due to needing Botox injections in my hands for hyperhidrosis; they make my thumbs very weak and I just can’t use whatever option is at the bottom left (whether it’s the stick or D-Pad). So I relate to certain control schemes just not working, especially PS4 games where you’re mainly using the analog stick (which is most of them)

[@JMPDev]

Genuine question: why not make a further patch to adjust the DS controls to be more snappy like the original implementation? Of course that would be non-trivial purely due to the technical challenge to reverse the character controller code enough to tweak it that much, but I think it would be worth the community dev time needed. Then you could both have the new content, and also have the best controls-have Princess Peach’s cake and eat it too!

[@mariocisemusic]

I grew up with sm64ds but in recent years I’ve found myself enjoying the original much more. I just tried the analog patch on desmume and I was surprised by how little difference it made (although the option is still really nice). I think my biggest problem with ds is how hard it is to correct forward momentum in mid-air. In sm64 you can correct a bad jump by kicking and holding back on the stick, but the kick in ds hardly does anything, so if you make a bad jump you’re basically screwed.

[@tafu4049]

not even the kick, just going backwards is terrible in general in SM64DS

[@mariocisemusic]

@@tafu4049 very true, I just notice it the most with the kick

[@dr.c2195]

I solved that problem by getting good.

[@mariocisemusic]

@@dr.c2195 based. Bad controls? More like skill issue amirite

[@tafu4049]

@@dr.c2195 regardless, its not about beating the game or missing jumps. its about the simple fun that SM64's controls have. even if this comment was a joke, SM64DS has enough to platform, but SM64 doesn't even feel like platforming, it feels like a dream

[@goldenyoshi924]

I gotta say though playing on the 3ds with the circle pad as if your playing 3D land it's actually pretty comfortable.

[@Iamstickman]

Playing Mario 64 DS on 3DS feels like playing a slightly more jank version of Mario 3D Land

[@grantforester1864]

Yea, it’s so weird that it doesn’t fix anything but it fixes nearly everything.

[@andremalerba5281]

It's way better! But it's still weird for me because the walking speed is just awful! I would love to have an always run option!

[@solidzack]

@@andremalerba5281 there is. Well atleast if you have a modded 3DS you can download a patch that simulates the analog stick as if you were using the touch screen, thereby giving you full analog controls with no need for the run button

[@trapez77]

There was an old interview with miyamoto where he said that an early prototype of sm64 was controlled by a different controller that was similar to the virtual boy controller with 2 dpads, the right one was for the camera just like the c buttons

[@GamefreakNGC]

Ill be honest, since DS was my first full playthrough of it, i was totally fine with the d pad. I played SM64 on the 64 as a kid but was literally like 6. On the DS i had no issues with it and appreciated the updated art style and multiple characters.

[@Mr.Welbig]

I grew up with both versions at a young age so I appreciated both for different reasons. To be honest I prefer the DS version in almost everyway except the controls.

[@Treyshellz]

Same. I've never had issues with the DS version and I played the N64 first, but I was like really young

[@davidmccarthy4206]

I had no idea Mario 64 DS was poorly received ! It was my favorite game growing up. Maybe the fact I had not played the original made me enjoy it more since I didn't have to unlearn controls, and never had a problem with those of the DS version

[@Roll-Penut]

The smallest KZbin channels really do be making some of the best content nowadays it's crazy

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

I'm subscribed to a channel called Farlands Design Den. A small channel run by a professional game designer, and the quality is unmatched.

[@canales8633]

Real shit, I’ve never seen a comment section so descriptive it’s kinda satisfying💯

[@thegamersfaction6343]

Real

[@MegaMinecraft901]

Bro needs to trim his script a though, he says things in 5 minutes that could be said in less and repeats lines about how Mario 64 DS controls well and the All-star versions doesn't. I think it could be consolidated

[@TheAbsol7448]

7:35 THANK YOU. People's eyes kind of glaze over when I try to explain that everything in Odyssey cancelling momentum feels horrible. It made a lot more sense in Galaxy where a huge chunk of your platforming was done on very narrow platforms, but in Odyssey? And in 64 DS? _Why_ is this a trend in Mario? It just feels bad.

[@Dark_Mario_Bros.]

There still gonna be a day someone will have the balls to make 64 ds in the original 64 including the exclusive characters abilities, levels and playable yoshi

[@MxPokirby]

But if we can't get all the addicting touchscreen minigames too, what's the point? 😔

[@Orange_Swirl]

@@MxPokirby When there's a will, there's a way.

[@Josuh]

there's plenty of character mods, including my man waluigi with his own moveset and all

[@raditz611]

If you mean like porting 64DS to the original 64 then I have good news for you, there are some people actually doing it

[@Josuh]

@GoombyTheTaco ex-coop

[@childOFtengu]

I still remember getting every star 🌟 on SM64 DS back in my middle school days, and playing the multiplayer with friends during lunch time. It was a quite the blast, though looking back, I always wondered how, even with the DS thumb strap for analog controls, managed to deal with it? I also had a N64 with a copy of SM64 on it, and always went back and forth between them, and something just drew me back to the DS version, which was likely due to the additional content and minigames. It's kind of like MMX6 for most, it's a game you want to hate for technical reasons, but there's always an element or two that makes it loved.

[@Mr.Welbig]

Wish I coulda played the multiplayer, but i didn't have any friends who played 64DS. I'll say i've always prefered the look, charm, aesthetics, atmosphere, and artstyle of the DS version. All the new content really added to the feeling of discovering mysteries in Peach's castle that I always enjoyed.

[@hopydoesnt]

wow the sideways air movement looks insane in DS

[@MellorineKnight]

You really hit a nice topic and went with it! Also checked out your last 3-4 videos and they were all solids. Hope to see more of your stuff! Wish you a happy a new year!

[@bobjeezorham7658]

I really appreciate when a video just has an answer to the title at the very beginning, then elaborates more on it. Good video, I feel that SM64 DS would benefit from analog control.

[@edwheezer6231]

It was fascinating to hear you break down your problems with DS's controls. I personally didn't play the original until 3D All Stars for... some reason and played DS a few years before it. Funnily enough, I had almost the inverse experience as you when adjusting to the original. It has many control quirks that got close to killing me many times- the worst offender being the little half-circle turn Mario does when you turn around sometimes. I know you can avoid it by stopping completely before turning, but I always forget that and it can make moving on smaller platforms nightmarish. Also, the original has more jank collision that occasionally screwed me over. I always go to jump on the rotating log in Tall Tall Mountain only to hit a random invisible wall and get sent back down to the bottom. Or the moments when the game can't decide if you're on a ledge or not (0:21). It looks really funny, but it's not so funny when it sends you to the bottom of Tick Tock Clock. These are all relatively small issues, but they add up to DS being the more comfortable version of the game to me. Maybe playing the original more will change my mind, though. As I said, I'm relatively new to both versions.

[@Rafalgahr]

I got 150 stars in Mario64DS on a DSlite using d-pad and buttons, I never had a real issue with the D-pad controls, but hey, if people can ejoy it with analog controls and feel more comfortable controls, it's fine. On the other hand I never tried doing any kind of speedrun or whatever, so maybe that why I never cared.

[@Treyshellz]

Bro same

[@desp3607]

You answering at the beginning of this video gave me whiplash at first, but it was very welcomed

[@MrOnyxWolf]

It's amazing that I've played both the original & the DS version. Yet I was able to still finish the remake despite the lack of analog controls. For me, I loved the fact that Yoshi, Luigi, & WARIO, of all people, was playable. Especially after Wario had gotten his 1st 3d platformer on the Gamecube. That was the biggest thing I was crazy back then when I was only 14 after getting this game as my 1st DS game.

[@LeafRazorStorm]

Thanks for addressing Spyro the Dragon's controls. The PS1 itself is fascinating in this discussion, since several games on that console were designed to make use of analog controls, but because DualShock was a specialized controller that not everybody had, developers always needed to consider the D-pad in some form or another. In that sense, the process of converting analog to buttons had been successfully workshopped years before 64 DS. If Nintendo failed to achieve a similar effect, they had no excuse.

[@PhirePhlame]

That is, besides the fact that they were retroactively doing this adaptation to a game which had already been designed to completion without D-pad movement being so much as a consideration. Still, all things considered, they did well with the cards they were dealt. (And yes, the 3D All-Stars implementation of D-pad controls has no excuse for being so bad. Like, yeah, a game studio that's world-renowned for making quality games can't figure out how to make an analog-to-digital control wrapper that doesn't suck. Sure.)

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

I don't find Spyro comfortable with the D-Pad. He's heavy and doesn't snap to another direction in a way that feels precise. I usually prefer tank controls like Tomb Raider if controlling with a D-Pad. The best digital directional movement I felt in a 3D space is Crash Bandicoot: Warped, and the 3D Gex games.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

I've always had this view on Super Mario 64 DS, in that it would have obviously been better with analog stick support, but it wouldn't save the game... because it doesn't need saving.

[@2NDFLB-CLERK]

▪️ I always thought it was a bizarre choice to not have an analog stick on the first DS... or *atleast* on the DS lite. 🟥

[@GoldenSolo929]

Your channel is amazing, keep it up and I could see you going far on KZbin

[@F0xH0und7]

Dude, thank you so much for answering the title question right away. I was seriously going to skip to the end of the video to see yhe consensus, but since you didnt bait your audience and gave us a straight answer right off the gate, i appreciated that so much i stayed to warch the full video. And im glad i did, great analysis!

[@imascatmanworld]

Thanks for documenting these deeper changes that I couldn't find anyone posting about elsewhere. The dive change is a killer for me, really disappointed with that.

[@DemonicAkumi]

The biggest issue for me was a running button.

[@jlco]

ngl, the immediate answer to the title on screen the moment the preview started to play drew me in.

[@CaptainComedy]

you sneaking some Frogger PS1 music in the end there guarantees my sub and that I bet we would get along-your videos ROCK!

[@DrRank]

If I had a nickel for every handheld remake that had one less Analog Stick than the original and suffers as a result, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's happened twice, right? For those of you wondering, the other one was Ape Escape P/On the Loose.

[@jeremyabbott4537]

putting a remake of Ape Escape on the PSP is the most baffling decision next to giving zero support to the PSVita

[@elkarlo1593]

64 DS is superior to 64 because even though the D-Pad isn't as good as the Analog stick, but the game was built around that burden, including an actually good cameras and loads of new features and content that improves on the original in every way, except for one star in Dire Dire Docks, but that's it

[@gravityhamster8805]

Completely out of left field here, but I love that you used music from "Frogger (He's Back)" in this video. I have a nostalgic soft spot for that game and its soundtrack.

[@Mr.Welbig]

Deadass, having it be my outro was the first decision I made when I decided to try making videos. Love that track and love that game.

[@AndrewChumKaser]

My man cutting straight to the point, literally answers the title question first sentence. Good on ya.

[@idoblenderstuffs]

to be honest, i would prefer to play with a snappy d pad rather than the smoothing they added. it makes it very hard to control in my opinion. even tough its not ideal, id find it much easier.

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

I prefer snappy movement as well. Something like Crash 3 or the 3D Gex games.

[@CinnaSwirls]

Not where I thought this was gonna go, but great video. Even if the analogue stick felt better though... -Playing as Wario: You do it when you absolutely have to, that's it. -Switching characters is tedious, so I spent most of my time as Yoshi and selected the hat of who I needed and tried not to lose it. -Wanna wait for rabbits you already caught to randomly be replaced with a sparkly white rabbit 7 whole times so that you can collect 1 power star for 100%? If you already have the other 149 power stars, now's the time to choose Yoshi and constantly enter and exit the castle because Yoshi has 5 rabbits outside the castle, right in front of the bridge. Keep reloading the area until 1 or more of the rabbits are white (bit usually only 1). Once you get all 7, the last star is yours. Great "content"!

[@jamiepersona]

The quality of your videos are great this channel deserves more views and subs 👍

[@Shadowth117]

I'd always wondered how that would work out. I remember a much younger me taping a broken controller's analog stick to a quarter and then taping that to the dpad, just in hopes it would work better (obviously I understand better now why that wouldn't just create analog input). I had a feeling this sort of effect might happen without mods to revert the movement physics, but it's sad to see that that's actually the case. Great exploration of this though. I'm really glad someone went through and analyzed it all.

[@gerarddip]

Honestly I really don’t mind the d pad at all

[@MatthewCobalt]

Personally, the issue was the default running speed. I think that it should have been the other way around, holding the button to walk instead would have at least made it easier to pickup and without adjusting your muscle memory.

[@treymon3135]

I appreciate the good microphone quality and clean editing in this video. Subbed!

[@oogaboogie]

Liked the vid but that's not a good mic lmao

[@treymon3135]

@@oogaboogie to each their own, it reminds me of the mic quality DYKG had back in the day

[@ragnarockerbunny]

The PC decomp with DS visuals would slap so hard. The DS version is just so much more vibrant

[@tepidpit8737]

This channel deserves so much more credit than it's getting!

[@oivinf]

Using the touch screen as an analog was actually very precise. It might have had a learning curve, but I played the game exclusively with my right hand on the touch screen and using the D-pad as the face buttons

[@leonbabic7185]

Yeah, I also remember playing exclusively that way. The biggest problem with this play style was recentering the touch screen during play. Extended manuevers aren't easy, because after a while you'd just end up hitting the egde of the screen.

[@thechugg4372]

Isn't the center of the screen the point of reference for touch screen? The video says it's mario but honestly if it was the center that would be an easy fix

[@Josuh]

weakest kid icarus uprising player

[@4steroid]

Detailed mario 64 commentary = a sub from me. Great work!

[@Zaurthur]

My biggest issue with Mario 64 DS is the existential dread that comes from not knowing if I'm me, or Yoshi wearing a me hat after entering a room with my name on it.

[@cowboyluigi5275]

10:15, oddly enough I struggled with the same thing in _both_ versions where Mario tries rotating instead of snapping back immediately.

[@Mr.Welbig]

That's fair. I'm aware countless people struggle with turning in the original too. Though I feel the sensitivity in the DS version is far worse, especially with analog controls.

[@SwedenTheHedgehog]

@@Mr.Welbig I am completely flabbergasted by the fact that both of you(?!) rotate the joystick to perform a sideways-jump!! Why would you NOT snap the stick the opposite way as a default, intuitive motion?? 😮

[@TommyTom21]

@@SwedenTheHedgehog Ikr snapping is the way to go

[@thatitalianlameguy2235]

@@Mr.Welbig except the running toggle makes control overall easier. 64 mario is so slippery, ds mario is slower

[@JJLarge]

Ive noticed this in the galaxy games too

[@moonlightostrich3690]

found the audio to be nice in this video despite the low microphone quality. hopefully skullex can get around to finishing star world so we can see what his take on analog Mario 64 DS is. If i remember right he stopped updating his analog mod because people kept stealing credit or something, though im not sure.

[@jaflm2308]

Amazing video, feels like a bigger channel, you deserver so many more subs, dude.

[@rapidloaf]

As someone who recently got the mod on my Wii U, I needed this video. Something felt off to me while playing, and I'm glad this video explains why that is.

[@TheAbsol7448]

A couple things I'd like to add that you missed are that you can't air kick into a double jump or long jump into a wallkick. That felt _incredibly_ restraining for me as triple jumps took so much longer to perform and they just took an entire tool away from my arsenal by removing the long jump wallkick. They very _least_ they could've done would've been to have it work like in the original game where you'd have to time it based on a 4 frame window. You also can't triple jump off of slippery slopes, which is _another_ tool they took away. Oh, and while probably not intentional mechanics, you can't jump kick up slopes or walljump off of a wall, hold back, and grab the ledge if the ledge is a bit too high for a triple jump. It's also really good for grabbing far away ledges by doing that after a long jump wallkick. All of these tools make you feel like a god damn Kung Fu master after you get really good at using them and they took _ALL_ of that away.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Whenever I see someone Longjump Wallkick in the original "What Sorcery is this?" you can tell which version I played more. If I ever made a 64 Rom Hack I would change wall jumping to be just like it is in the DS Version which means you would bonk into any wall you long jumped into.

[@TheAbsol7448]

@@WaterKirby1994 Removing it would just unnecessarily remove an extremely useful tool, though. It'd quite heavily limit your movement options for no good reason.

[@colophongames]

I used the thumb pad included with the DS and while it takes a bit of learning, it works super well.

[@elwen8525]

Idk why but there is so much charm with the thought of Mario 64 getting a remaster on the ds

[@Tanookicatoon]

BRUH, your ending music is the options theme for Frogger on Playstation!! Now that's some quality gaming.

[@Mr.Welbig]

😉

[@timtanium7074]

I've always had problems with not just the controls, but the movement mechanics compared to the original. Here are the problems I encountered when playing SM64DS that detracted from my experience: - Wall kicks no longer allow you to grab the ledge behind you - Ledge grabbing from a long jump is much less consistent, sometimes impossible - Can't do the third jump of a triple jump off of slippery slopes anymore - Diving doesn't prevent fall damage anymore - Much more difficult to consistently angle wall kicks precisely - HOW DO I HOLD THE RUN BUTTON AND PRESS THE ATTACK AT THE SAME TIME??? I can't hold Y and press A without accidentally pressing X or B in the process, and the original game doesn't allow you to remap the controls, it's infuriating. - Can't continuous jump from a side somersault anymore - Can't wall kick from a long jump anymore - Can't backwards somersault in succession - Diving during a jump stunts your height, which prevents a huge diving triple jump when pressing dive right after the third jump in the original - You can't swivel to change the direction of a side somersault

[@KingYoshi93]

Question: Do you think the controls (or physics) could've been better in the DS version than how they turned out? You did mention a few things, but I'm not sure changing all of those would make the controls better since some may be made in favour of the D-Pad. I'm in the SM64DS modding community. If I ever make a (full) hack, I'd be interested to know whether the gameplay could be made more comfortable. After seeing this video, I probably wouldn't do something like making the turns snappier like the D-Pad controls in 3D All-Stars, since that clearly isn't really ideal with this kind of level design.

[@Mr.Welbig]

I honestly wouldn't know since I'm not a programmer. We know how 64DS plays with analog support. We know how the original plays with a DPad. Surely a full custom hack has the potential of playing better than base 64DS since level design can be created to fully compliment how 64DS controls. I feel the reason 64DS gets a bad rap because it's compared to the original, and has most of the original level design. The only mystery now is, could 64DS even be playable if it had the physics of the original? With a DPad it could suck because of the snappy turns. But with an analog stick? Could be interesting, and after seeing people put Mario64 into Sonic Generations I hope something like that could be possible in the future.

[@KingYoshi93]

@@Mr.Welbig Ah okay. Yea, that would be interesting to see. I have some basic programming knowledge, but programming physics of characters is still very complicated. 😅

[@KingYoshi93]

@@Mr.Welbig Hey, there's this port of the original SM64 for DSi, search for SM64 DSi. It's for DSi only because it uses that system's extra RAM. Maybe you could play that sometime and make a video about it. I don't expect it to play better than SM64DS, but since it's more faithful to the original physics, it could be interesting to have a look at it.

[@KingYoshi93]

@@Mr.Welbig What does Mario 64 in Sonic Generations do then?

[@adrenaliner91]

You've got a new subscriber! Such a good video!

[@bigedwerd]

This is the kind of game design deep dive we need and why game preservation is important. Great analysis!

[@TehJellyLord]

64 DS with an analog stick kinda just looks like it controls like Mario Galaxy but with a lot more moves, and honestly that is probably better for me as someone who grew up playing Galaxy 2 long before any other 3D Mario game.

[@LazurBeemz]

Is there no argument for the "extra content" of DS actually making the game worse, because it ruins the overall pacing? And sure you can play as Wario, but is he any fun? Controls aside, I've always seen DS as unwelcome extra gravy on an already perfectly balanced game.

[@TribalScience]

Thanks for the reasonable approach to this topic, makes total sense.

[@rab6325]

You deserve more subs man! You put a lot of effort on this, gave you a like and sub. As a kid I didn't mind the dpad, but I can see why it's inferior.

[@michelzwiers7742]

within ten seconds, I already have to respect the fact that there's no bullshitting, just getting right into it. 10/10

[@CuriousGuy_]

I think the difference between the controls in Mario 64 DS and the original can be boiled down to how they tried making them more consistent in the DS version. The original had those things you mentioned were moves flow into each other more naturally and keep your momentum, and that's what makes chaining moves in 64 so fun and natural, while the DS version has more clear limits. it's like the difference between super Mario 64s controls and 3D world. This can be seen especially with long jumping, wall jumping, and like you mentioned diving as well as other moves that were made consistent in an attempt to try and get rid of any yank that can be found with original game's inconsistent controls, wether or not this change is for the better is entirely up to preference.

[@Hugelag]

Thanks for the immediate answer. You've definitely earned my subscription.

[@maxiepar]

I never thought this would be a problem considering i played this with a 3ds! Very good video

[@RealQuarlie]

I mean, nothing in the video is really good criticism, and more just "this movement is different from the original, so it's bad" or "this thing, that was intended to work on a d-pad, doesn't work when you don't use a d-pad, so it's bad"...

[@blitzkrieg5584]

Calling m64 ds controls bad is such a skill issue imo

[@garderay9994]

The D-Pad's gradual movement was definitely to emulate an analog feel, but in practice I think it works REALLY well. The extra characters, extra stars, extra bosses, and the PORTABILITY makes it my fav version of SM64....at least until 3D All Star came out, so now analog AND portable is possible and works incredible.

[@CaptainFalcon333]

I love a video that tries to answer the title in question immediately.

[@hooty8703]

Wario was such a huge missed opportunity. If he had a more distinct play style it'd be so cool

[@joe_razor]

I actually played the game with the little stylus nub on the thumb strap. It worked pretty well.

[@NekuZX]

This is an interesting video on an issue that I had no idea existed before watching the video.

[@daesplays8737]

"This admittedly has caused me to kill myself on a few occasions from muscle memory taking over." this is so relatable

[@RedRatch]

Best into I’ve seen in a decade of yt

[@nibyafternight1983]

That game is my childhood. Glad to see this little project making me able to expirience this in some sort way or another, even if its not quite like the original SM64

[@pixer415]

I recently installed this mod with a button remap, only to discover that while the Circle Pad is emulating the Touch Screen, it's still emulating the D-pad at the same time. This might've effected your experience.

[@SHADECIRCLE]

I've always had a problem with how 64DS handled, which is why the original has remained my favorite throughout the years. The original just handles so perfectly, and you can notice pretty quickly even when using an analog stick on the DS version. This video is very cathartic to me! Thank you.

[@rebornreaper194]

Excellent video, and insightful analysis! 👍 😃

[@dade1603]

a romhacking scene for 64ds would be really cool. not that ive ever made a romhack, but still.

[@electricmaster23]

So much respect for your objective take, sir.

[@Drayiss]

Thanks for this! I was in an interesting position where I sorta grew up with both, so I was okay with either game’s controls. Even when I was younger, I noticed just how awkward the DS was to play compared to the original, even without the D-pad problems. I don’t exactly know what it is, but it certainly has a more stiff and slow feeling to it, and chaining moves together never felt quite right. I’d be interested in someone putting together a project that included the DS content while keeping the original’s satisfying controls!

[@vegasvanga5442]

My favorite part about SM64DS is having to hold down Y for 99% of the entire fucking game

[@angrybread478]

Something I dislike about the ds port that not many people go over is how much time is wasted when you have to switch a character to get a star. If you don't count the bowser levels, there are only two stars where you're forced to play as Yoshi, but there are stars where you have to play as Wario, and when you're in the second floor, switching to him is a pain. It doesn't help that the caps in some levels are pretty far away from the stars location, and if you get hit, there's a chance you get the long hit-stun animation so the cap disappears. A good example of this is the 100 coin star in rainbow ride. You're playing as either Luigi or Wario and find out the only way to get the blue coins is to wall jump, and the Mario Cap is all the way up in the tower. Yoshi bypasses this by being able to select a cap from the select screen, but I wish every characters was capable of that.

[@MelmanOfDaSouthh]

All this aside I think Mario is just the jack of all trades character among the fully unlocked cast. It's been a while since I played the ds port. But you should do a follow up video experimenting with the other characters on analog stick as well. Good video.

[@nathonso_edits]

64 DS was my first introduction to the game, so I'm completely fine with the controls, I've actually played through it a few times, it's one of my favourite games, I do have 3d all stars, so I'll have to try the original some time

[@_fudgepop01]

It’s clear to me as a developer that the DS version was designed with physics to accommodate the DPad in mind. You can be snappier, and movements that take multiple frames such as a side flip are able to be taken in much fewer frames with far more predictable angles on the DS. If there were a patch to clean up said movement, *then* I would be very surprised if it weren’t considered the “definitive” edition :o Still, this is a great look into the differences between the games and is a good case study into how game designers may adjust their physics to accommodate limited digital inputs in a 3D environment. It’s also nice to know that the swimming is actually slower and that I’m not crazy for hating the water levels in the DS edition ahahah

[@mariotheundying]

Maybe if someone cleans up the ds version (graphics, audio, controls, stuff like that) it would be considered definitive (some changes maybe just for the emulator version of the game because fixing the pixel problem is unnecessary in a real ds) Edit: oh and add stars that were removed from the og version too, I have a feeling some stars were removed but I'm not sure, but if so add them back

[@postboy2242]

@@mariotheundying DS slams 64 all day

[@diddypancakes8670]

Hey, person who got 150 stars in SM64DS here! THANK you for explaining this! You explained it well! But I beat the game on my 3DS XL and had the same problems.

[@stevtunes5677]

I really like how the camera controls in 64 DS, even so that I would rate it the better game of the two, if the resolution was scaled up a little

[@Dig_Duke_SFM]

This is an amazing review over the controls! As someone who grew up during the day it got announced and played on launch day, i can say that using the D-pad was my goto, i hated the Touchscreen controls and even contimplated life and said "who was the one that said this would be entertaining?!" Literally! SOMETIMES SOME STAGES YOU CAN'T USE THE TOUCHPAD CUZ OF HOW IMPOSSIBLE IT WAS. Anyways, great vid! 👍