3 Problems with Save the Cat (Writing Advice)

[@gamewriteeye769]

For reference of the Save The Cat structure with proposed changes so it's easy to understand (includes Brandon's in this video). Act 1 1. The opening image (1%). - This is the first visual we open the story with, and typically can be a scene length, or simply a few sentences to draw interest to the main hook of the story (also called a focal point of the opening scene). - This can be a prop, an emotion, a particular character thought, a setting backdrop that displays what to expect, a landmark, an epistolary, a symbol, and many more. 2. Theme Stated(5%). - This is typically the main line of a protagonist's main goal that'll shape their character arc of the story in relation to the main question the story proposes (e.g. Dialogue, frequently running character thought, a prop they interact with) . - If you have more than one protagonist, then they will have different inciting incidents (as with other pov characters) and they will have their scene/moment where they state this (so this can happen later in act one when the other protagonist(s) are introduced). 3. Set-up(6%-11%). - This is a section of scenes within chapters that build up toward an event that pushes the plot out of the status quo, while here, it's featured and shown what will go wrong. 4. Catalyst(12%). - This is a particular scene or sequence of scenes that portray a disruption in the main status quo, but the protagonist isn't willing to venture out of their comfort zone. This is also called the first plot point. However, it can also function as an inciting incident if you have a very proactive protagonist. 5. Debate(13%-25%). - This is a section of scenes within chapters that build toward act two and typically follow the breakout from the status quo to propel the protagonist into the new world all the way toward the main inciting incident. Act 2A 6. Break Into 2(25%). - This is a scene or sequence of scenes following the inciting incident that changes everything, given the protagonist's reaction to everything having changed them following a new path, meeting new characters. 7. B Story(26%-?). - A subplot that'll be resolved at any point throughout the novel. 8. Fun And Games(26%-49%). - This is a section of scenes within chapters following the protagonist as they adjust to change and try to find a way out of it, typically involving a lot of conflict. *Brandon notes - Deliver on the promise of the premise - Let the audience have fun - Explore the story's concept - **New World, Fun & Games, Old Contrast, Buildup**. - First Pinch Point/Reversal(38%) - A scene or sequence of scenes that features the antagonistic force against the protagonist to add conflict. 9. Midpoint(50%). - A scene or sequence of scenes that involve the first half of the plot turning toward shaping the new inciting incident for the second half. *Brandon notes - False Victory/False Defeat should have critical information (a relevation scene, or a small reactive scene in here) that pivots the plot/protagonist's main goal into the second half of the story. ACT 2B 10. Bad Guys Closing In(51%-70%). - This is a section of scenes within chapters following the protagonist as they adjust to the second change of their journey and try to find a way to change it proactively, typically involving a lot of conflict with the antagonistic force frequenting in appearance. *Brandon notes - Both antagonist and protagonist should be proactive during this section. However, I'd argue this does depend on the story, the type of protagonist (particularly reactive ones), and how much of an aftermath (or small reaction scene(s) following the midpoint) is needed. - Second Pinch Point/Reversal(62%) - A scene or sequence of scenes that features the antagonistic force against the protagonist to add conflict. 11. All Is Lost(70%). - A scene or sequence of scenes that involve the protagonist losing something and face their darkest moment from the antagonistic force. This typically includes a reaction scene from them. 12. Dark Night Of The Soul(70%-74%). - This is a section of scenes within chapters following the protagonist as they adjust their outlook of their journey so far and try to find a way to grow as a result of their character arc, typically involving a lot of conflict with their reaction and transitioning from rock bottom toward becoming proactive again for the finale. Act 3 13. Break Into 3(75%). - This is a scene or sequence of scenes following the darkest moment for the protagonist that changes everything, given the protagonist's reaction to their newfound change, to propel them to confront the antagonistic force one last time. 14. Finale(76%-99%). - Also known as the climax. This is a section of scenes within chapters that has the protagonist confront the main antagonistic force once and for all to settle the heart of the matter of all the conflict in the story. What follows from here changes the outlook of the protagonist from the start of the story. - What isn't required but considered important is the resolution/denouement segment(95%-99%) which is a sequence of scenes following the aftermath of the climax or the “calm before the storm”, just before the finale. Adding both can control the pacing of the story, adding more time for reflection. 15. Final Image(100 %). - Opposite of the opening image. This is the last visual we close the story with, and typically can be a scene length, or simply a few sentences to draw interest to redefining the main message/answer the protagonist takes away from the message of the story (also called a focal point of the ending scene). - This can be a prop, an emotion, a particular character thought, a setting backdrop that displays what comes next, a landmark, an epistolary, a symbol, and many more. But remember, it must oppose what you opened the story with to leave a lasting impression of a complete story.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks for this! Pinning it now

[@BradGroux]

Thank you for the write up, very helpful!

[@screenwritingtruth]

Except none of that is structure. :)

[@gamewriteeye769]

@@screenwritingtruth Noone has to follow any structure religiously. They're merely guidelines and suggestions based on other's success. Do with that what you will :)

[@screenwritingtruth]

@@gamewriteeye769 Based on what success? Please give me some examples.

[@loisbushman5183]

I'm just now doing some editing using Save the Cat. I enjoyed this video, particularly that it didn't trash the method but added some really helpful hints

[@daveindezmenez]

I've found that most screenwriting books try to make screenwriting into some kind of formula that is supposed to work in all cases which turns out to be not the case when you get into it. I've read so many books that are supposed to be the be-all and end-all of screenwriting books and then find it only partially helps and that I'm still left wanting. The most satisfying book for me was McKee's "Story", partially because it encouraged you to go beyond the typical formula genre stories. The book that broke the logjam for me was "Screenwriting: The Sequence Approach" because it broke down the second act into smaller pieces making it something easier to overcome. For many of the don't dos that most screenwriting books say not to do there's exceptions. One is that you should never bore the audience but you can find the exception for that is in "North By Northwest" in the lead up to the crop duster sequence. Another is that everything has to push the plot forward but it turns out that you've ultimately have to entertain that audience. You've got comedy films where funny scenes happen that have nothing to do with driving forward the story yet audiences are satisfied when the movie concludes. You've got musicals where musical numbers delight audiences even if the story isn't going forward at that moment. In short, there are no one-size-fits-all formulas that are going to work every time and there are some rules that should be thought of as more general guidelines for MOST situations but not all.

[@spacechampi0n]

I hate dividing it up in 3 acts, when it's clearly 4. "first half of the 2nd act" and "2nd half of the 2nd act" is just a dumb way to label it. FOUR ACTS!

[@DanAbsalonson]

Save the Cat helped me a ton. I wrote a few novels and the structure was all messed up on them so they would drag big time. Having the tent poles of story points to plot out at the right places helped a lot. Like you said though I kept searching for other story structure tools and combined them with Save the Cat to fill in some of those gaps. Great video!

[@MREmusique]

Your videos have been eye-opening and incredibly helpful to me. I'm not an "author", I have no delusions of ever writing a literary work that could be taken seriously. However, I'm working on an opera, which requires a text. my story is pretty much all there, but your tutorials are an immense help in my putting together the elements in a functional and logical manner to best express the stakes my characters are faced with. Thank-you.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks for watching! And best of luck with your opera!

[@mattydominic4219]

I had the same issues with STC. Thanks so much for cleaning it up! Incidentally, I've referred some producers to STC who've had a hard time understanding why a script may be structurally weak or strong. It's funny bc their minds are blown by the idea that there's even such a thing as story structure.

[@littletodger7008]

Just the goods and no waffle. So very much appreciate these insights and videos. I just published my first novel and your observations make so much more sense now. My advice - same as EVERY other published author - GET IT WRITTEN. Then you can actually write it - as a rewrite. Then you will benefit from writerly advice. simply put - only after the book is written does everything you read and hear about writing signify. After you have written it, there is a place etched into your brain for the information you need to write it. Yes! it’s a paradox.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks for the kind words about my channel. And your advice about getting a book written is spot-on. Everything comes into focus afterwards

[@donshaft4573]

I believe the Save the Cat beats sheet is an incredibly useful tool for story structure and analysis. As hinted in the comments already, the story structure is an arrangement of ideas and will never be perfect. At the end of the day, it’s about constructing art. After reading the Save the Cat book and using the beats sheet to analyse the structure of films, I’ve noticed that it’s not exactly a science, but a way to develop ideas with great story arc principles. And it works brilliantly. In other words, It’s a map on where to go. But remember, the map is not the terrain. The terrain is how you, personally, interact with the environment you’re presented with. I think wat is said here still falls within the general structure of Save the cat beats sheet. The structure on the STC beats sheet should be fluid, informing and not so prescriptive as suggested. Brings to mind, “too many cooks spoil the broth”. However, I’m interested and open to hear from others to see if anyone believes that they have something better than the Save the Cat beats sheet?

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Well said. And I love your map/terrain comparison

[@shrinkingviolet1953]

Thanks for this. Save the Cat has helped me a ton in my writing, but I have the same issues with it that you listed here. Nice to know I'm not the only one who spotted these problems.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Np! Thanks for watching

[@thenondualisticmystic]

@11:51 yes, and "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" When the hero goes on the attack, the villian pushes back harder and things get worse and worse. It's a constant cycle. So the bad guys close in further as the hero pushes back further.

[@bonbonpony]

That was my issue with "Save The Cat" too! It felt almost like the author spent 80% of the time on the beginning of the story and its ending, but almost no time on the 50% middle of the story, i.e. its "meat". You can pretty much tell it by the density of those beat points in each act. While the ones in Act I are well described and their purpose is explained, those in Act II are very vague and purposeless, which is rather unfortunate, considering that we are supposed to spend the majority of our time on writing this part of the story :q I always felt that there must be more beat points in Act II, and their purpose and how they tie into the rest of the story must be investigated further, because there's really a lot that's going on there, and a lot of things that can go wrong, even if we start with a good Act I. This is also the part of the story that can go in many different directions, which also must be taken into account. There was no instructions on how to come up with all those "fun & games" and how can we derive it from what has been established so far, as well as towards what goal should it proceed. It's pretty much like those meme instructions that goes like: 1. Do something obvious. 2. … 3. $PROFIT$ :q

[@qine6559]

Omg haha

[@greenlitlleman]

This is because it's mostly based on what most successful books SHARE in structure. And the mid part is usually different for each book. There's just no one rule fits all unlike the first and third act. The middle is where you work on developing your characters, making promises unique to your story, etc. There's just no universal rules. Writing is a creative process, I think that STC already gave way too many rules and many of them are far fetched. You want more story beats? You can get them, but it doesn't mean that many successful books will share them, sorry. This is a book about what great stories have in common, not an ultimate outline guide.

[@edwardromero3580]

Spot on. I have used Blake’s beat sheet as a scaffolding for years, but as you pointed out, it isn’t a complete solution. Your suggestions on how to make it better are well thought out. Thank you.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

“Scaffolding”-I love that. Perfect way to sum it up

[@restlessnative9305]

I have watched hours and hours of writing and screenwriting vids and I have *never* heard pinch points described anywhere near this clearly. Thanks!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Glad it helped!

[@thomasmcdonald2219]

Yes. STC helped me tremendously in understanding how to structure and move a story along and how the structure can be played with. I think it’s the best book out there for people who think like I do on writing. I do appreciate your insights though and I think your insights help make the method better.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks!

[@krishnamurtiism]

Thanks for your video. I was struggling to fit my screenplay into Snyder’s beat sheet. It was good to hear about the revelation to character at midpoint as that’s exactly what happens to my character, although I didn’t know it.

[@TheFadedStardust]

In my opinion, you’re absolutely right! I do think that some of what you mention is addressed in Jessica Brody’s “Save the Cat Writes a Novel” follow up to Snider’s original book by saying that during the Fun and Games beat the hero should either be on either an upward trajectory towards a false victory in the Midpoint or a downward trajectory towards a false defeat in the Midpoint and then the Bad Guys Close In should be the opposite direction of whatever you chose for the Fun and Games beat (so downwards if you did a false victory, or upwards if a false defeat). That being said, the nuance of the beats you mentioned in the Fun and Games section make a lot of sense, and I’ve always wondered why Save the Cat doesn’t use the Pinch points, as they’re great goal posts to include. Also, I love that you called out the need for a new piece of information revealed during the Midpoint! So true! Honestly, modifying beat sheet structures to suit individual stories should be something that is talked about more and seen as a good thing!

[@TaraDobbs]

Oh, yes I agree with you completely that those areas of Save the Cat is lacking. Thanks for sharing this. I've added some notes to my outline to remind me of what you've taught. Thank you.

[@ocarinagirlandthestories648]

I found myself loudly saying “thank you, thank you” as soon as he said he has a problem with “fun and games” I’m always so lost at that part of the story because I never know how long that part should go on and I’m always stressing out about the novel being too short. It seems like everyone else has the opposite problem, they write way too much. There are videos out there with tips on how to increase the word count and I watch those videos and follow the instructions but I still can’t get the page-count I want for each section of the story.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Haha I know the feeling. You might want to read up on the Eight Sequences. They add a little more clarity to the second act structure

[@ocarinagirlandthestories648]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thank you for the tip! I will be sure to look into that

[@WakenAngels]

I use a 7 act structure and I have considered using a 9 act structure as well. Note that even though these appear chronological, each tickmark between the first and last one can occur simultaneously, either across multiple POVs or throughout the ACT: PROLOGUE: Establishes the premise, theme, any relevant backstory, and the antagonist - Intro - Opening image that captures tone and hook, spiriting the audience off into another world, or a new story within a version of our own - Theme - Dialogue or images that conveys the message of the story or the protagonist's character arc - Conflict - Introduce the antagonist and foreshadow their goals - Challenge - An event where the antagonist either succeeds or nearly succeeds that will set up the rest of the story - Light in the Dark - A tragedy with a glimmer of hope ACT I: Establishes the protagonist, their ordinary life, the conflict therein, the extraordinary event that takes them out of this life, and their decision to move forward or not - Character - The scene that introduces your character in an interesting way, typically a moment of vulnerability to endear the audience to them -Conflict - The desire they have and the obstacle that is preventing them from having it; or if their life is perfect, the setup leading to the problem that will disrupt their life -Challenge - An event that the character has been anticipating or anxious over that will possibly change their life, but nothing out of the ordinary is expected to happen [aka "plot start"] -Catalyst - The extraordinary event that changes their life, for better or worse, and pulls them out of their routine -Debate/Call to Action - These do not necessarily need to happen back to back; the character can refuse to accept the change to their life for the rest of the story until the very end; but they usually happen back to back, because the protagonist will decide to go with the flow and make the best of their situation ACT II: Establishes the protagonist's goal in their new world, the relationship they need to form, repair, or end, and shows how they grow and change -Rising Action - Reintroduces the antagonist, emphasizes the world conflict, foreshadows mystery, and raise the stakes for the protagonist -B Story - The relationship that will help the protagonist change, whether it is a new bond, a broken one that needs fixing, or an unhealthy one that needs to end -Challenge - A series of events or obstacles that the character struggles to overcome, where the writer 'delivers on the premise' with 'fun and games' by building the world -Conflict - The issues that the protagonist faces, usually internal as they ponder their old life and have to adapt to the new one -Plot Turn/Pinch Point - The moment when the story shifts direction because of a decision made by the protagonist or the antagonist [the latter is better to maintain the tension] ACT III: Establishes the protagonist's main goal, whether they achieve it or not, and delivers on the initial promise, before shifting direction -Challenge - Right away we have another challenge that is presented to the protagonist, and this is the challenge they have been most anticipating -Conflict - However, there are still some issues and the protagonist will either struggle with the B story relationship in pursuit of their goals, or the relationship will interrupt their goals -Midpoint - This is the moment the character appears to get what they want [or fails to get what they want] and is now in a state of vulnerability or false security -Plot Twist - This is the main reveal of the story where the mysteries present in the Prologue, Act I, and Act II are uncovered, but not fully explained -Fight or Flight - The protagonist is forced to abandon their goal and face the antagonist, which results in a loss, or to retreat and live to fight another day ACT IV: Establishes the protagonist's fears, reveals the antagonist's plan, and also unveils the key to defeating the antagonist -Setback - This is the downtime where the protagonist feels defeated and reflects on their failure [also known as Dark Night of the Soul] -Conflict - This is both an internal and external conflict; the protagonist continues to ponder their loss but also must decide how to face the new challenges before them -B Story - This is the moment when the relationship with the protagonist and the one who will force them to change pays off, and the protagonist learns something about themselves -Comeback -The protagonist makes a decision to face the antagonist, either by coming up with a new strategy or by seeking answers elsewhere -Plot Turn/Pinch Point -Another reminder of the antagonist's threat to the protagonist and others by showing what they are capable of ACT V: Establishes the protagonist's victory or defeat, the antagonist's victory or defeat, and explains the mysteries previously revealed -Challenge - We begin again with another challenge where the protagonist closes in on the antagonist, and vice versa -Conflict - The protagonist faces an unanticipated obstacle that throws their new strategy off course -Revelations - The mysteries and the antagonist's motivations are explained , and the protagonist has one last opportunity to give up -Finale/Climax -The protagonist makes a decision to face the antagonist once and for all, having discovered something last minute that will allow them to claim victory -Falling Action - The antagonist is defeated, the protagonist is victorious, and the moment that's been teased the entire story finally happens [e.g. Death Star blows up] EPLIGOGUE: Establishes the aftermath, the protagonist's new life, resolves the plot, and foreshadows what is to come -B Story - Right away we see how the protagonist's life has changed and how the relationship with another character drove that change -Resolution - We have a conclusion to the protagonist's story and the character reflects on how their actions changed their world -Conflict - If there remains any character that has an issue with the protagonist, this is a good place to add it [especially if this is the beginning of a trilogy] -Outro - This is the ending image that shows a difference between the opening image in some fashion to reflect the protagonist's impact on the story -Cliffhanger - If you are writing the first or second part of a trilogy, this is a moment where the antagonist remains a threat, or a scene showing the protagonist's challenges to come It's worth noting again that this is a flexible outline and it is meant to change with different stories and genres. Hero vs Villain is very fantastical, but every story has a protagonist and an antagonist, whether it is another person or a world adversary, or even an internal adversary like a disease. The point is there is always something to struggle against and overcome, and every story ramps up in challenges until the resolution is found. Without those challenges, there is no story. In that sense, life itself is one like story from the beginning of our lives until the end. The question is which chapter you end your story on?

[@lpfun1494]

I hope it's okay commenting on an older video but this video was reading my mind about STC. Fun and Games and The Bad Guys Closing In have always been my biggest struggle with this beat sheet. I have shied away from looking at the 27 Chapter Method because I write in scenes, but it sounds like I have missed out on a great tool. Thank you so much for this video!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks for watching! You also might want to check out the book Into the Woods by John Yorke for more info on plot structure

[@rachelthompson9324]

Mid point is also good for what James Bell calls the mirror moment when the MC realizes or faces what they are doing wrong and must change to solve the problem. It is a major impact on the character arc that allows the MC to grow. Yes, new info should force this character to change.

[@oracleofaltoona]

Thank you so much. save the cat seems helpful from what I have learned about it. But your info seems to really round it out and give more insight into some important story/character dynamics.

[@Silverthemystic]

I recently found your channel after looking up "good and bad dialogue" and I've found your videos very helpful, thank you. And I recently finished reading Save the Cat, both the novel version and the screenwriters version. I found helpful information in both of them for the type of story that I'm writing; such as from the screenwriters POV and how pitching and idea or wanting to get the point of your story across but making it condensed. I also enjoyed your discussion of problem #2/#3. How the character needs to "go on the attack" and while my main heroes do go on the attack, due to being lied to by an important figure in their life who was merely a pawn, the villains achieve what they originally set out to do. And while the heroes are in despair, they manage to muster up the courage and proceed further to confront the villains.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Check out the book Story Engineering by Larry Brooks for more info on going in the attack (and structure in general) And great profile pic btw... FF8 is my all-time favorite game.

[@Silverthemystic]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thank-you and I just put in an order on Amazon. Excited to read it and continue crafting my skills and knowledge!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@Silverthemystic Awesome, hope it helps!

[@mevaa.o.533]

Thanks for sharing this video about Save the Cat Beat Sheet missing parts. Save the Cat formula was really helpful for me while writing my novel but I was also stuck at the midpoint and bad guys approaching sections. When I by accident watched your video over these issues it really made me get out of the concrete mindset. Thanks again.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Awesome, glad it helped!

[@TreyStation64]

Dealing with writing my first fantasy novel, this helped a lot because I really need an outline. Thank you.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Sure thing. Best of luck!

[@Ayyavazi13]

I was skeptical of the title at first since I love STC and it's novel counterpart. But you reminded me that I filled in the same gaps with help from stuff by Larry Brooks and John Truby. Nice summary and deconstruction!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Yep, Larry Brooks' Story Engineering book is a great companion guide to STC. Total lifesaver.

[@jasmint7679]

I love STC, it helped me better understand story structure. Act 1 beats and Act 3 beats, including the 5-Point Finale, are great, but Act 2 feels like it's missing beats. Exactly what you said, it doesn't give you enough information or direction. I'm currently using 6 Act Structure (Actions and Goals). I feel like it gives you more structure/guidelines but also more freedom.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

I'll need to look up 6 Act Structure. And I'm glad you mentioned the 5-Point Finale, because I originally had it in this video before I cut it out to save time

[@robertpetrovich6776]

This is the kindest description I've seen of Save the Cat

[@metramaks]

I just started reading Save The Cat. Wanna write stories and quests for games. And from now on I'll have another source of information which is your channel. I honestly don't understand why you have so few followers. But your latest videos about dialogues are doing well (that's how I found you). Speaking of the story structure, it really reminds me music theory. Some people wrongly assume that these are rules for writing music, but in fact it's just a guideline about what sounds good together and why it does so. And it's always up to you how to use this knowledge.

[@calebghormley2322]

STC definitely helped, and this video added really useful additional context. Thanks!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks for watching!

[@LauraBCReyna]

I read Save the Cat when it first came out and you nailed my main critique of the book/method. It has some good ideas but there are gaps in the Beat Sheet where writers could feel lost. I remember being confused when I first read it & feeling the method lacked some details. I use the Sequence Method taught by Frank Daniel & preserved in the book by PJ Gulino. They taught with 8 sequences but I use 12 seqs. I also use "plot points" (beats) similar to Snyder's, but different, in combo w my 12 sequence method. Good vid.

[@LauraBCReyna]

The book is called Screenwriting: The Sequence Approach by Paul Joseph Gulino, if anyone is interested.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

I love the 8 Sequences. Particularly Sequence #5, which helps give you some direction after the midpoint. I will have to check out that Gulino book--thanks for sharing!

[@ctsuhako1]

I'm reading it now and your adjustments to the beat sheet really helps!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks! Are you reading STC or STC Writes a Novel?

[@ctsuhako1]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I'm reading STC Writes a Novel.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@ctsuhako1 That's a great guide. Brody goes into more detail than Blake Snyder did in the original STC. Her examples are also pretty detailed

[@chazo3827]

You're the best! This is the most helpful video I have ever come across, all your videos are incredibly helpful. Thanks a lot!

[@calmcloudlesssky3443]

The most noticeable problem with Save the Cat in professional writing, IMO, is when it's obvious the writer twisted the story so that it would have a Dark Night of the Soul at the end of act two even though it's not in the least organic to the story. (In stories not starring everymen, the beginning can also be very abbreviated without damage.)

[@greenlitlleman]

Absolutely this. People need to focus more on their story to actually make sense and be interesting instead of making it follow a structure that's supposed to make the book great. The promise fulfilling approach of Sanderson to plotting makes more sense. You make promises and then give what you promised.

[@sewmuchdufus]

Yes! The thing I hate about Fun and Games is it's 30% of the novel. That's huge, and for me, a lot of what I use the structural points for is pacing, and that just seems like such a big chunk. Also, the midpoint bit really resonates with me. I just took another look at my midpoint and reworked the outline for this exact reason. StC gives great structure basics when you're just learning though

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Glad the video helped! And yep, STC is a great launching pad. Just need to learn more as you go

[@claudiag8823]

I never heard of Save the Cat, but this (together with your additions) was extremely helpful, and while you introduced the differents stages, scenes started flitting right before my eyes that would fit into this or that stage, bringing the story forward. It was really exciting! Now I just have to do this for my other projects, too, but that should be easier since doing something like this is way more easy with fantasy etc. than a slow-paced romance without a villain or life and death situations.

[@madnessbydesignVria]

My biggest problem with this (the Hero's Journey) template is that it shoehorns every story into the same box. I can already hear defenders saying "No, it's all in the execution!", and I'm sorry, but that's just weak. I watched a movie called 'The Morning After' with Jane Fonda, Raoul Julia, and Jeff Bridges, about a blackout drunk (Fonda) who wakes up next to a dead body, and has to figure out what happened (I didn't spoil anything with that). It was supposed to be a masterpiece 'whodunnit' that would keep you guessing until the very end. I knew every plot point within the first 5 minutes. How? Because despite having a budget, great film crew, and big-name celebrities, it was hamstrung by this formulaic, predictable structure. If it really only generates predictable stories, then why do we have to use it? That brings us to... My second biggest problem with Save the Cat (and others like it pushing the Hero's Journey) is the idea that the Hero's Journey is THE way all stories have been told forever. It basically says this is the way you have to tell your story, because it's the same way the Greeks and Egyptians told stories thousands of years ago. That's bullshit, 100%. I studied Greek and Egyptian mythologies and this story mechanic is nowhere to be found. Why? Because ancient people believed your fate was entirely in the hands of Celestial Beings, and we are all pawns in their games. Your character needs to have a 'Dark Night of the Soul'? Why? The Gods don't care, and they'll do as they please. The truth is, the Hero's Journey is a very modern idea. Look at the Odyssey or the Iliad and try to find any semblance of the Hero's Journey. You won't. The real reason this narrative gets pushed is because Producers LOVE it. They know how to sell it (and not much else). This is a business, and trying to figure out how to sell something new and creative is risky - and investors want to make a profit, period. But there's a huge problem even with this simple truth: It doesn't work for Television, franchised movies, or ensemble casts (think Avengers, etc). You can't have character growth in serialized Television - it just can't work (for a miniseries, perhaps, but not an ongoing series). Remember all those Law and Order character arcs? No? Of course not. Remember all those James Bond films where he had character growth? Right. Because you can't have character growth in 30 films. Don't get me started on the MCU. And if you still think you can pull a rabbit out of a hat and say the Hero's Journey is THE way stories are being told around the world, I'd recommend you look at foreign cinema. Look at Asian films. Look at Anime. That's the biggest market in the world, and Western films struggle there - except for the ensemble casts. Why? Because when you have a billion people in your country, you can't afford to encourage individuals to take their destiny in their own hands - they have to work together. That doesn't work for the Hero's Journey. I know I'm screaming into the wind, and Hollywood is not going to abandon this tired, stifling formula. Can you write a good story using it? Sure. But let me ask you this: Do you like having all your food on hamburger buns? A hamburger, maybe. Even sandwich fixings, sure. But I don't want my pizza on a bun. Or my soup. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with a bun - but it's not the only way food can (or should) be served...

[@bobcurrie1642]

Well said! I'm really sensitive now to the fact that I'm essentially watching the same movie over and over again. The same is often true for novels. At a certain point, I just no longer bother, and I find something else to do.

[@viktormarosvary8673]

Awesome video, I loved it! I am now digging into the 27 chapter method. If you have any books suggestions on it, let me know. All these structure methods reminded me on a Photoshop trick, the s-curve. It is a technique that can be applied to almost any image to boost the contrast and color saturation of the image. Just like the s-curve technique, the structure methods also nudges the contrast of the story in an ideal way. But once you apply it, you will see where you can fine tune it to your story.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks! And I’ve heard of the S-curve. Makes sense that there are underlying structures for different art forms… people crave the familiar, as well as thinks like symmetry and patterns

[@jasonuerkvitz3756]

I couldn't help but think of the first video of yours I watched that talked about the power of three. You're talking about pinch points, and I considered how something like the power of three could work significantly in this formula.

[@TA_33]

Save the Cat is a good starting point. I don't know why Larry Brooks Story Engineering doesn't get more attention. I loved that book.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

100% agree on Story Engineering. Big difference maker when it comes to plot advice

[@ConsiderationFarm]

Great video. Great additional details to the midpoint.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Glad you liked it!

[@starklingspars8956]

I haven't read it yet. I read Story Genius Twice...did some excercises from that then heard good things about Save The Cat so just watched a Jessica Brody vid where she broke down 15 points and I felt that was all pretty obvious and instinctive...so I appreciate this video.

[@Ghost_Text]

Usually an important part of the 2nd half of act 2 Ive found is piecing the puzzle together and greater context for story elements that felt suspicious earlier. Of course the biggest secrets or hidden aces are saved for act 3 but often much context starts creeping in round that dark night of the soul.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Good call. If the biggest surprises are at the top of the stairs, the 2nd act helps the audience take a few steps upward to glimpse what's up there

[@JDRBNFB]

Good points in there. STC is really useful but I agree it’s not necessarily the best or only way to do it. There’s a book called The Story Solution that makes the story into sequences instead of beats. I’ve found that using that format alongside STC beats works really well - and I also refer heavily back to Robert McKees books - Story, Action, Character, & Dialogue. There’s no one way. But a good story will have most or all of the elements. I just like to think of all these different methods as a different type of map for arriving at the same place.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

I'll have to look up The Story Solution. And when you say "sequences" do you mean The Eight Sequences?

[@DreamCatcher101-6]

I can add some point, in the problem n1: the villain may have an appearence, during the fun and games beat, and also during the bad guys close in beat. And this was better explained by Jessica Brody in her book save the cat for novelist. For the problem n2: you can use the internal conflict of the hero to make strike back, and also jessica stated in her book that the bad guys doesn't necessarily mean the villains, it means the internal issues the hero must defeat. And I thank you for the tips (pinch point in 38% and 62%, I found it very clever.

[@bobbiebrownn]

Excellent I needed this clarification

[@christopherhuang9501]

I prefer to break into five acts, because I am a snob who first discovered story structure studying Shakespeare in high school. Basically, "fun & games" is its own act, as is "midpoint climax". And then everything up to "break into 3" constitutes Act 4.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Have you read Save the Cat? Did it help you with your writing? Let us know!

[@potatomanboooi3105]

I almost thought save the cat was a simpler term for deas ex machina

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@potatomanboooi3105 Hahha no STC refers to a scene where you have your hero do something admirable so that the audience likes the hero.

[@potatomanboooi3105]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty makes sense.

[@julius-stark]

The problem with the beat sheet is that it's only useful for beginners. Once you get good it can be counter productive. I created my own modified version which was 5 acts (act 1, act 2 part 1/2, act 3, resolution) and interpreted "bad guys close in" as "things get worse".

[@littletodger7008]

STC is immeasurably enriched by these insights! But others systems are better.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks! Which other systems do you have in mind?

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

I'm a big proponent of Campbell's "Hero's journey. would love to see a video that compares those two structures.

[@jasonbutterfield8300]

Brandon, I love your screenwriting advice. One question I have is in regards to the opening image. STC says the opening image and the closing image should mirror each other. I take that to mean they should mirror each other visually, but be contrasted in context to reflect the main characters growth arc. for example, opening image is a flame (guy toking on a joint) closing image is also a flame but guy is roasting marshmallows with new family. Is that your take as well? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for all you do!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Yes! So, with the opening/closing image, you want to create a sense of "before & after" or "circularity". It's more than just visual--you want to convey the person's overall life if possible

[@amouramarie]

I love Save the Cat; it helped so much in plotting out my story. But I agree with the point about Fun and Games in particular. It was the point at which I most felt kind of left to my own devices, which to some authors is great, but I've found I really like structure. I haven't looked much into the 27 chapter outline. I should take a closer look at it and see if I can frankenstein it into my STC outline in some way, especially during that middle part. :)

[@Lyssa.8824]

I have read save the cat. I prefer Michael Hague's 6 point structure. It aligns perfectly with a four act structure, as well.

[@Dark_Peace]

Structural check-list for my graphic novel : Opening & thème : in prologue Setup, catalist, debate, risk : in chapter 1 Bplot : Mentor subplot with the megatech CEO and romantic subplot with the new intern in chapter 2-... Fun & games : adventures in imaginary world, premise delivered Plot pinch 1 : Senator's plan strats unfolding in chapter 4 Midpoint : big fight end of chapter 4, heroine becomes active when love interest gets kidnapped by CEO in chapter 5, stakes change from imaginary to IRL. Plot pinch 2 : point of no return for CEO. Senator creates thought police. Major plot twist in chapter 6. chapter 7 : Bad Guy closing in : until final showdown against CEO in All is lost : all heroes's efforts are nullified by Senator's new law, they will never reintegrate society Réflexion : yes Important info for facing the villain : I guess but nothing stands out Finale : chapter 9 Final Snapshot : épilogue ends in a train similar to how starts the prologue. Thanks for your explainations, I remember reading about STC but it's nice to get a refresher. A problem I have with it is like, fun and games is playing with the premise but I think that should be done throughout the whole story. Not like Maze runner who only has a maze in the first movie. I came for the maze, not for a generic zombie Apocalypse. I try to keep the Heroes using the premise as much as possible.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Good point about stretching the premise/concept for the full length of the movie. I didn't like the 3rd Hunger Games book because it never captured the spirit of the games like the first 2 did.

[@richardpreston7333]

I largely agree with the story beats, but I find myself disagreeing with the percentages a little. They seem a little... _clinical._ I appreciate it's a rough guide, and I daresay if I went over my manuscript with a scientific calculator I'd find my story fit quite neatly into those percentages, but still... That said, thank you for explaining things so clearly!

[@bignapolean3068]

I read the book. Now I have no idea of how to begin my next story. Create a character first? Outline the story beats? Select the genre? The process is so interconnected, I don't know where to start.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

What excites you most about your story? Start there and build around it

[@nebyeelda5862]

Nobody really knows just write your story and try to apply the structure rules on it. it might end up completely different from what you intended but that's where the craft and fun is.

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

Tolken's entire Lord of the Rings started from an interest in a language that he made up, then he slowly layered things on top of it. World elements, then characters then story and so on. Language was his passion. If he can start with language and build a fantasy empire out of it, then I don't see why you can't start with whatever fascinates you the most. For me, it's character above anything, then story, then plot, then world building then dialogue. That at least helps me reach my word counts.

[@doomofthedestiny8065]

Funny watching this video, I've had plenty of people mention save the cat but haven't read it yet, and while I've done a lot differently, it's funny how many things just work the same. Certain scenes naturally echo some of the points you mention, at at least roughly the suggested point. Not a literal 1:1 of course, but certain pivotal moments where the villains escalate or the heroes find better tools to overcome the villains. The misdirection that the main villain isn't the villain to overcome in the first book since it's supposed to be a series of books. I do mix it up a bit, the hero keeps finding Allies to teach him new things right up until the final confrontation of the first book. Because of premonitions the main hero knows the stakes from the beginning he just needs more information to make sense of what he's seen so he can manipulate or prevent the event. And so, a lot of the "revelations" are pieces of information that recontextualizes what he saw.

[@gerrigarrick]

I read several books on screenwriting and was left confused. It wasn't until I found Save the Cat that something clicked for me! As a fan of writing dialogue best, I need structure help the most or my screenplays run the risks of becoming sketches without moving forward. All of that said, I concur fun and Games could have been a bit more fleshed out.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Yeah STC is a lifesaver in terms of giving a structural groundwork to build off of. Within a yeah of reading it, I was able to write a competent novel draft

[@firstcityfilms]

"Structure happens." - Paul Guyot (Kill the Dog) Definitely worth the read.

[@isabellagonzales7857]

Save the Cat is what opened my eyes to how crucial act one is :) Thank you for your elaboration on act two, it was insightful!

[@silencedogood7297]

Excellent analysis

[@paulolodicora4471]

Hi there, yes you are right only if you pick a book "Save The Cat" and start to be a writer right of the back. Now what story are you planning to write? Ok, regardless what it is, there are many things, as a writer should do, first, the story itself. To put it together it very helpful to use a sketch into a "mental map" then start to fill into those 3 steps. Blake Snider criated these terms like "Bad Guys Close In". For my perspective that doesn't change anything. Much obliged for sharing. Greetins form Brazil.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheRealLongStoryShorts]

We're taking advice from the guy who wrote Blank Check.

[@waypay1]

I'm laughing harder than I should be. 😂

[@thenondualisticmystic]

Irony is always popular in literature. Right?

[@GarandGunner]

And "Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot"

[@Muljinn]

Many people are better critics than they are writers. I submit that Mr. McNulty falls into this category. The Critical Drinker is similar.

[@annavg7294]

I'm so glad that you made a video on this. Went to buy Story by Robert McKee (as you recommended) instead, during my considerations of Syd Field, Save The Cat, etc. Although, Story also had a valid amount of constructive critcism.

[@louisedwards5851]

I know these beats are meant to be general to apply to any story, but they're so nebulous that I lose direction, so I'm glad you broke it down even more. Examples of each chapter and how that translates to a TV series is hard to find. Once I grasp structure, I feel I'll be more confident in tackling other elements. Can you make more like this?

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

More videos on structure or more videos critiquing what certain writing guides do wrong? Also, there are a couple books out there on writing for TV. I haven't read either, so I can't vouch for them, but you may want to look into these if you're writing a TV series: Story Maps: TV Drama: The Structure of the One-Hour Television Pilot by Daniel Calvisi Save the Cat!® Writes for TV by Jamie Nash

[@louisedwards5851]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty More videos on structure that show examples of how that structure is actually applied, not critiques necessarily, though this video works. I like the simplistic 3 or 4 Act structure, and when it's broken down into 15 beats, and further depth with chapters, or any variation.

[@louisedwards5851]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I've been listening to this audiobook The Nutshell Technique, which breaks stories into 8 parts with a lot of examples. I'll have to also check out those books you mentioned. Thanks!

[@louisedwards5851]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I feel I learn better with video though, like seeing the diagram and the cutscenes really helps. I might be out of my league here, but I heard episodes after the pilot are like Act 2 over and over until the end of the season arc, which makes it like a long movie. So your videos are helpful no matter what part you choose address. With all of these beats, and then having to figure out where to place subplots, it starts getting confusing.

[@louisedwards5851]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I might prefer to write a movie, but the story I'm trying to write lends itself to a serialized series (not episodic), a mystery that unfolds with no clearly defined ending, and that requires a ton of planning. So maybe I need to start with a movie format that has a semi-conclusion, and then work backwards with several cliffhangers. Am I on the right track or misunderstanding the process?

[@iosyntropy]

oh my i am ready

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Awesome, thanks for watching!

[@johnnymeeks]

I think it also forgot about the continuation of the B-Story, as that felt like an abandoned afterthought; What am I supposed to do, apply the same structure with three of your counteracts to build it up until it merges with the climax/finale? Yeah, as they should have the same message as well, to bring it in at the end

[@johnnymeeks]

Johnny’s Eckable Errors: *until it merges with THE A-STORY, FOR the climax/ finale & *bring it in to the end, to leave and keep the story to feel complete, both with your satisfaction and the satisfaction for the quality level of your (possibly be, great) story to be exact

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

You're spot-on. Snyder mentions where the B-story starts (and that it needs to factor into the Midpoint), but he doesn't go into detail on how to develop it over the course of the story. Another chapter devoted to developing the B-story could've been a huge help

[@biancastephanie8830]

Can you make a video about non linear story telling? I love this style but I’m so afraid of messing up using it.

[@didutasev4427]

Great, thank you. Another problem I have with the book (though it's still great) is that it says the Midpoint should be a false defeat if your hero is going to succeed at the end, or it should be a false victory if your are writing a tragedy and your hero fails at the end. If this were true, there would be no sense in watching a movie or reading a book to the end, as at the middle you would already know how it's going to end. This is something I've been struggleling with for the last year as my current project definetly has a tragic end, but it also has a tragic midpoint. It's in between, during the second half of the second act, where my hero seems to be winning and everything seems OK for him. Do you thing that could work as well? Thanks.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

I think you have things mixed up. According to Snyder, the False Victory at the Midpoint is followed by the All is Lost then at the end another victory. False Defeat is followed by All is Won, then another defeat/tragedy at the end. So your story with the tragic midpoint, then the redemption, then the tragic ending would work fine.

[@didutasev4427]

​@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Yes, you are right, I was mistaken. :D But still this is exactly what I meant. If we always follow this formula, at the midpoint readers would know how the book would end. Besides, I read somewhere else (I think it was in K M Weiland's Character Arc, but I'm not sure), that both happy ends and tragic ends could equally have a false defeat or a false victory in the middle. That would be les impredictible and more opened for creativity. Anyway, it's probably me thinking that way because I know the "formula". Laic readers probably don't see it coming that clear. :D Thanks

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@didutasev4427 The most important thing is to keep the reader guessing no matter what. I understand plot structure very well, but when I watched the new Spider-man movie, I was kept in suspense throughout the final act because the story pulled me into the moment and put characters in danger (and delivered on the danger in some cases)

[@didutasev4427]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thanks ;)

[@BlackMita]

I split Fun & Games into: Trial&Error & Fun&Games, with Bstory sometimes inbetween, sometimes before both.

[@Syrian.Coffee]

Love this video

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks!

[@calmcloudlesssky3443]

As my work stars a Man of Action who takes the idea of intervening for granted - and I'm positive McNulty reads plenty in that territory - the first act is very truncated. It essentially consists in the catalyst: a prologue showing the orchestration of a bolt-from-the-blue ambush which motivates my protagonist to embark on a much thornier task than usual and go straight into act two. If this weren't built on a preexisting common-knowledge property, he would need to be established as having and then surmounting disbelief, but that's the only change needed. Unless it's from that point on that we have the structure? We open what I would consider to be the Fun and Games, with an establishment of the core cast and what they do. But they are engaging the villain from the word go, and that's where we start the mentor subplot. (Very organic subplot. Not the slightest need to take pains to program that in, but I wonder about many love interests.) Since it has to be from the shadows at first, they can't do ruddy well much, and that might be read as the theme statement and the dissatisfaction leading up the catalyst? It most definitely is the catalyst for things to amp up a good notch, and the secret, inert stretch indeed goes to about the 25% mark, but then, it certainly ends in what McNulty would call the first Pinch Point. But act two, or the rest of act two if we were already in it, goes: -Villainous triumph -Major heroic asset that sort of gets drowned out by another villainous triumph -Heroic triumph -Hero and villain equally triumph in parallel pursuits -Major information, through a somber moment of retrospective (I'm using a semi-episodic format where that wouldn't be out of place.) This is about two-thirds of the way in; this, or the heroic triumph a couple points up, is as near a Midpoint as we get. -Pinch Point again, resulting in -A heroic triumph which carries us into act three without any dark night of the soul. Because the heroes are, at this point, just... winning. That's how the story goes. The villain starts with an extreme upper hand, and it's a story about getting the upper hand on the villain. And act three is: -Everything comes to a head. The final shape of the conflict is cast. The gloves come off. Dilemmas poke in, probably handled badly. -The climax. A glorious victory, but at too high a cost. -The first part of the denouement, which doubles as the dark night of the soul. -The second part of the denouement, which is the resolution and the change in the protagonist and the snapshot which hearkened back to the opening image, all correct. There are some pretty basic elements of storytelling in there for which the Save the Cat structure doesn't seem to allow.

[@TimRG]

Good points on Save the Cat. Here's the biggest issue with Save the Cat by Blake Snyder and it isn't the beats. It's that everyone overlooks the first three chapters. The reason why I think, there isn't as much in the middle is because so you have the freedom to explore your premise. Which the first 3 chapters make you focus on before you get to the beats. Should there be more here? Sure. However, no one ever talks about how Blake forces you to think and know the story you're going to tell before you ever beat it out. What is missing and would be helpful, is Save the Cat Goes to the Movies, where he gives examples of the different types of movies and how they break down into each of these beats. Also, people keep trying to use Save the Cat for Novel writing when it is a Film book. I tried to read the Novel addition, but I gave up. It doesn't work for me. Sorry, percentages don't work. At least for scripts pages does. It is more tangible.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Good point on the first 3 chapters, but I still crave some structural guideposts along the way (when I draft stories, I tend to chase all kinds of wild ideas, which can get me sidetracked if I'm not careful)

[@TimRG]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Which is why I don't like the 3 Act Structure. There are versions to do give a little, but they are never truly enough. Also, the way everyone treats the second act, they are like two acts. Also, they never treat the mid-point correctly. It breaks at the midpoint and says something happens, but move onto the second half quickly. At least Synder stressed the mid-point. Can you tell I don't like the 3 Acts?

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@TimRG Hahaha point made

[@bettydeil9032]

Thank you

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

You're welcome!

[@brrryan2908]

Thank you, Brandon, for saving me from buying a formulaic book about story telling!

[@thoperSought]

I know Save the Cat can be really useful, but it seems to me like a very commoditized way to think about story. there's something very Hollywood-schlock about the approach of throwing in a scene where the protagonist saves a literal cat just to show their character. in film, you can get away with it more, I think, because of the passiveness of watching images on a screen, but in prose you have to be really careful-it's not bad to have that scene, but you have to be more creative about how to integrate it into the story

[@ComicPower]

Save the cat is great for beginners

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Yeah I wish I had read it at the very start of my writing career. The beatsheet is the easiest entry point for understanding plot structure

[@JohnWelsh-oz3jz]

I love what you said about the hero being proactive. I’m no writer but it reminds me of when I was a teenager playing D&D. Basically, we “heroes” would just so often sit in a tavern waiting for a random NPC to approach us with a new adventure. God, that must’ve been a pain in the ass for our DM. We had fun; which “as-you-know” is the point of a game. But still, I realize now that I could have had even MORE fun, if I had been interested in developing personal goals & maybe the vestiges of a personality. Instead, I had a Lawful/Good fighter with a 18/00 Strength and a 14 Charisma and I called that a “character.” (Oh, but you want his background story? He was a farm boy. There we go, now he’s fully developed.)

[@Nassaldromus]

That's more developed than my Dwarf, Cornelius II, a fighter/thief who happened to be the same character as his father Cornelius who died on his first adventure but with a "II" annexed to his name. I think my DM allowed me to do that because he had a beholder and three gas spheres (is that the name?) Against a 1st level party. And that was after we outran and escaped the stone giants... Ah, the good times...

[@halsinden]

not even got all the way through this video and already i'm compelled to comment with a THANK YOU SO MUCH. oh my WORD, 'save the cat' annoyed me so much.

[@AcademyNS]

One thing that puzzles me about STC is its lack of beat 16: denouement!

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

I’d say closing image works well enough. If you’re aiming to show how the character has changed since the intro, the final scenes should write themselves

[@oliverford5367]

It seems to me a good guide for one particular kind of story: Star Wars ANH style Hero's Journey. It doesn't even fit Empire that well, and certainly not something like Breaking Bad which has a negative character arc.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

STC simplifies the Hero's Journey taught in Hero With a Thousand Faces, so you're spot-on about that

[@oliverford5367]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Yes which is one kind of story but the only kind (not the only kind even in the Star Wars franchise!). So it's good for its niche but there's lots of other structures.

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

I found that Breaking Bad fits perfectly in the Hero's Journey if you consider the journey as a circle, particularly one where Walt more or less refuses to change. You got the ordinary world and the world of the unknown (the drug world). You have the crossing the threshold (his ride along with Hank). The Call to action (his cancer diagnosis) and so on.

[@Charles-e4x]

So what would "fun and games" (or whatever equivalent to that) entail in certain genres? How much is too much and how much is too little? I'm trying to work on a romance, and I'm trying to balance out having my main characters work towards their respective goals while also just spending a little down time together, which both involves them having fun but also learning more about each other which progresses their relationship. Which in turn, progresses the plot, since it is a romance. Then again, since it is a romance, I suppose the down time would be them working towards their goal, even if they don't realize it yet. I've sort of written for fun every now and again but have only very recently decided to take it seriously and try and make a novel. Any advice would be appreciated.

[@witch_of_the_vale]

Contrary perhaps to the much if the sentiments here, it's my own personal opinion that Save The Cat is everything that's wrong with Hollywood. As a guide I feel it may help you fix problems in a current project, but I'll wager things written from the ground up adhering to its tenets will be homogeneous, predictable dull and ultimately forgettable.

[@winspiff]

On 27 chapter method: question. Apparently the method divides the 3 acts into equal parts, unlike all the others. I find this confusing! Do you follow the idea of a longer 1st and 3rd act? If not, how do you "fit" the 27-chapter beats into a traditional 25%-50%-25% act structure?

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

You can stretch out the parts in Act 2 to fit the percentages better. Sadly there's no great, detailed Act 2 guide that I know of.

[@dougtrisharobertson3370]

I've read STC and it helped tremendously, however you've raised some points that I've had issues with. Also, have you had any movies produced?

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

No movies, just the two novels so far

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

What about you? Are you a screenwriter?

[@dougtrisharobertson3370]

Nothing yet. Just got back notes on a potential project.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@dougtrisharobertson3370 Awesome, best of luck with it!

[@varanid9]

As I listened to the first part of this video, it occurred to me that these 15 steps are very confining.

[@potatomanboooi3105]

I have never heard of save the cat.i mostly learned from watching movies and reviews of them to better understand what they did right and wrong.then try to notice stuff like that in later movies

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

STC is what helped plot structure click for me. Watching reviews helps a lot too for filling in the blanks along the way

[@potatomanboooi3105]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty yep.watching critiques and reviews stuck the idea of plot holes in my head and how you may have a good structure but its easy to fall off from the main plot to a side plot aswell as fall off with the fact toi can have things that make zero sense

[@SamRoads]

Save the Cat! is my favourite book, despite much of it being wrong.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

The good outweighs the bad

[@dawnkravagna3200]

I agree. The “Fun & Games” beat is too vague.

[@Jazzadrin]

Hi Brandon. Is there any writing books in particular (preferably based on story or character creation, but I'm open to any writing book) you have found to be most helpful? The "top" books that you would recommend to any aspiring writers?

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Most helpful for writing story and character would be these IMO: Story by Robert McKee (also check out his "Dialogue" and "Character" books; anything by McKee is gold) Creating Character Arcs by KM Weiland Writing for Emotional Impact by Karl Iglesias The Nutshell Technique by Jill Chamberlain Story Engineering by Larry Brooks I'd also recommend Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey. It's a psych book about personality/temperament types, and it made a huge difference in how I approach and understand characters. The Anatomy of Story by John Truby is also great, but pretty challenging. I would read the other first, then tackle this one later EDIT: Disregard what I said about Truby's book--I forgot you already read it

[@Jazzadrin]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty thanks a lot for the list of suggestions, it is greatly appreciated !

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@Jazzadrin Anytime.

[@RGencher]

Trottier’s book is a great resource. I use it everyday

[@operaguy1]

Side comment ... Hollywood has an easy time putting Hero into "All is Lost." However, they are lame at showing a plausable yet amazing breakout. They throw something up, and the audience is so relieved they forgive the stupidity. My #1 exception is in "Tangled." That was brilliant.

[@hobbsmakescomics]

Pinch points really confused me for a long time , until I saw what I think is the perfect example. PUSS IN BOOTS Last wish. While they are escaping on the wagon after stealing the map Puss sees Death in the crowd, and he's just c watching him and does nothing else. And it's just a quick moment Just a reminder who the real villian is. I've also seen it as cut aways as well.

[@felixthecat2786]

Save the Cat caused me nothing but agony in scriptwriting class. I have never been able to plan anything around the 3 Act structure. Well....I can plan, but when I actually sit down to write I am not capable of following the guide I created. I have better luck if I just sit down and write free form. The story just comes out when I sit down and write. I was told that I was a bad writer because I could not follow "the guide" I created. I could tell that my scriptwriting teacher hated my guts. I don't like the idea of "bad guys" or "heroes," shouldn't they be protagonists and antagonists? What if the villain is a false villain turned good? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Save the Cat or the 3 Act Structure. These methods can help a lot of people, they just completely destroy my ability to be creative.

[@BradGroux]

Thank you for your insights, I like the additions you have provided. I think writers have a big understanding problem with resources like Save the Cat. They are meant to be a framework, not the architectual designs. They are a starting point. Where your characters go, will add new complexities and details to your final designs. If you only follow the framework, your ideas will be a formulaic copy of every other story. Don't be afraid to get creative, and make it your own.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

Thanks!

[@kainejoyes2981]

Hated this book, felt wrong to me, but what do I know

[@pauligrossinoz]

Yeah, my story's "bad guy closes in" section shows that the antagonist expected a fightback by the protagonist, and thus the bad guy gets to show the reader that they are far more of a threat than they first thought. The protagonist's first attempts at going "on the front foot" in the second half all end badly, revealing the true power and danger of the antagonist. And in turn, this forces the protagonist to dig deep into themselves to come up with a way to defeat the antagonist that allows them to shine in the climax.

[@videovasco7]

Well... nice video but specially the "bad guys close in part" is a bit going into word picking no? The book makes it very clear the hero should be pro active all the way, You know "it's about a guy who".

[@NC-dw1ir]

I've never read it but I've gotten writing advice from people who have and referenced it. But, what do you do if your story doesn't have a 'villain'?

[@TrevorDuran3390]

I made my own 3 Act spreadsheet

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

How'd you build it?

[@TrevorDuran3390]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I combined Blake Snyder with Joseph Campbell in the way that made the most sense for me. Also incorporated the Flaw/Strength arc. All on one page.

[@WriterBrandonMcNulty]

@@TrevorDuran3390 Nice--that's similar to what I do. I have Save the Cat mixed with Nutshell Techniquw (covers the Flaw/Strength) and Story Engineering (for filling out Act 2). Props to you for reading Joseph Campbell. I've tried to get through Hero With 1000 Faces twice but lost interest fast.

[@TrevorDuran3390]

@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I'm gonna check out those other 2 you mentioned. Thanks.