Writing for French Horn - American Composers Forum

[@composerdoh]

Thank you for this! I would love to see a video with a horn player (or ideally, a whole choir of 4 horn players) explaining how/why to voice chords and notate accordingly in the music. I've found only one thorough explanation in print and found it very confusing. Seems to me to actually see a real time person explain verbally "I'm sitting here and I'm horn player 1, this is horn player 2 who sits here... (etc.) I'm going to play all the top notes on this staff, she will play all the bottom notes on this staff, and this is why we love it when you put this interval on the staff and voice the chord this way..." etc. As a composer I'd love to write all parts exactly the way all players would love to read and play them, but I don't always know how. Thanks again!

[@OutandaboutWalking]

Hi Rob. This is exactly what I have also been searching for - How to write for four horn players! I have searched online & on here and the best I have found is that 1st & 3rd players play the highest notes whilst 2 & 4 play the lowest notes (no.1 plays the the very highest note & no.4 plays the very lowest) but the trouble is it still does not give me the clarification I am seeking! I mean like the highest & lowest notes of what?! Is it a chord if so is the chord a triad or an extended chord, it’s mind boggling! Have you had any success since posting your comment, any help would be greatly appreciated. ATB

[@composerdoh]

@@OutandaboutWalking No, not really I haven't found an answer I'm sorry to say. Have you? I can only tell you generally it seems you write like this: imagine a standard 4-part chorale style. On the top staff you put Sop and TENOR, and on the bottom staff you'd write alto and BASS. But what confuses me is: is that horn 1,2 playing Sop/Ten, or horns 1 and 3???? I can direct you to "Orchestrationonline" (Thomas Goss is his name I believe) and his discussion of writing for horns. I found it helpful, but ultimately confusing. But I have some learning disabilities and processing issues, so maybe you'll find it more helpful than I do. Basically he says it's more important that they PHYSICALLY sit closer to their partner whom they have more trouble playing in tune with, and how horns basically work in and are divided into teams. But again.... are the teams 1/3 2/4 or 1/2 3/4????? I'll give an example of why I find Thomas Goss's videos and his blog post on it- and, come to think of it frankly ALL writing on how to write for horns confusing: he says (I'm paraphrasing) "they say to write 1,3 on one staff and 2,4 on other staff, but I follow what horn players prefer and write 1,2 on one staff and 3,4 on the other." So I think "finally! I'll look at his scores and see how he writes, and I'm guessing I'll see Sop/Alto on top staff, Ten/Bass on bottom." So I look at his scores I can find and... NOPE! He writes them Sop/Ten and Alto/Bass, just like the 1,3 2,4 scores. The short of it is I think they need to sit next to their PARTNER to hear better and play better in tune. But WHO IS THEIR PARTNER??? Is "Sop" partnered with "Alto" or Tenor??? You know what I mean?

[@OutandaboutWalking]

@@composerdoh first off - Thank you so much for your detailed response 🙏. I have done quite a lot of research on this subject since my previous comment to you and guess what!? I still cannot find anything definitive! In fact I asked a Tuba/Trombonist player today who plays in a brass band about this quandary and once again I couldn’t get a definitive answer. I think what makes it harder to figure out is the fact that in a typical orchestral setting there is four players who are split up into two teams speaking of which I do think the first player would be the team member of the third player and the second player would be partnered to the fourth player based on my research but I could be wrong! It would be great if you could possibly keep me updated with anything new you find out & believe may be worth mentioning and I shall do the same 🙂.

[@composerdoh]

@@OutandaboutWalking I think in this video he has a link to at least one of his two articles which I read, which I was confused by. With my luck I'll read them again and understand them perfectly and then be embarrassed about how much I wrote they were too confusing, but... maybe they'll help you better than I. His one post is called "horn teamwork" which was very useful, but... to me it was confusing again because it's not clear to me when he says "horn 1/2" is he talking about Sop/Alto or Sop/Ten, because they seem to always be notated S/T A/B on the page, regardless of whether the score says horn 1/2 on a staff or horn 1/3 on a staff. So I can't understand the difference. But again, I haven't looked at the articles or scores in a long time, so... the answer might be right under my nose. I don't have time to dig into it at the moment, but I do remember that every time I thought I got it, I'd look at an actual score and realize I'd missed something. The upside is though, it DOES make it clearer when you watch his videos on horn "teamwork" how the system developed. The horns, in the classical/Baroque when they used crooks instead of valves, would often be in pairs in two different keys to hit more notes, one team in say, F, the other team, in say, Eb or Bb.One of each pair would play/specialize in higher, and the other of each pair lower. That's where the whole "interlocking voicing" thing came from. It makes total sense after you read his articles- I think it was in one of his videos too. But again, it still doesn't clear up the modern thing about why horn players like it "this way" and not "that way." Anyway, gotta go but good luck and let me know if you make better sense of it or find anything! The link again: (and don't forget, he has a link to his blog posts on the subjects in the description) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYOvYZ6PftuUaMk

[@OutandaboutWalking]

@@composerdoh Thank you for this I will definitely check it out for sure. At a guess I think when referring to horns 1/2 this would be soprano & tenor based on the 1,3 & 2,4 logic but once again I could be wrong. I still have much to learn & try and understand how an orchestra works, it’s almost become a bit of obsession for me of late! Anyway I will indeed keep you updated. I will sub your channel. Thanks again Rob! Oh and apologies to the original uploader of this video for hijacking the comment section...

[@adriendecroy7254]

Some discussion of range would be really useful. Specifically notes to avoid up high. Can you score a little higher for stopped notes, as they transpose a semitone.