E-Bike Batteries Keep Exploding. What’s the Solution?

[@samkochevar983]

I work at a bike shop and we HATE cheap e-bikes and scooters. Most are made by companies who have no idea what they’re doing but will charge you several thousand dollars for a bike with all of the absolute cheapest components possible. They’re incredibly difficult to service and it’s hard to explain to a customer that the thing they spent so much money on is an actual piece of garbage, let alone a fire hazard.

[@ChristopherSmith-hy5qx]

Question... is Biktrik juggernault pro fs 1000 watt cheaply made or well made ? And is the company in 🇨🇦 make bikes worth buying

[@lancethrust9488]

FACE IT LITHIUM IS DANGEROUS , THE ROLLOUT WILL KILL MILLIONS OVER THE NEXT DECADE

[@lesterrobinson3169]

Would be handy if you could flag up some of the brands you speak of?

[@najibyarzerachic]

Actually the cheaper batteries are the safer ones. Lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries seldom catch fire and are cheaper than more traditional lithium ion batteries (either NCM or NCA).

[@bestechdeals4539]

Hello I couldn't agree more on that. I got a bike from populo brand. Do you know if it is generally good. The charger gets very hot after couple of minutes charging

[@TruckeeDoggo]

Video suggests that public charging places (outside residences) is the answer to avoid residential fires. But crime in cities like NYC is so rampant that e-bike owners will not want to park their bikes in a public place, for hours, unattended. Your bike is going to get stripped for parts, similar to the plague of stolen catalytic converters from cars.

[@DietWarlord]

I'm pretty certain the point is to have shelter AND a charging station, so they have a place to sit nearby. I'd love these in my city. It'd be pretty dope to go for a ride, grab something to eat and chill at a charging station to top off my battery.

[@niteshades_promise]

yeah aint nobody leaving their beloved transportation outside in the city. gotta carry your bike inside/upstairs to charge and for safe keeping or it wont be there later. pedal, electric, or gas bike. sheet, i had a motorcycle i drove on a plank of wood upstairs to park on my porch at nite. yep motorcycle up a flight of steps to keep it from disappearing.

[@EBikes420]

They're not saying it will be a 'top up' charging port. They're suggesting you only charge you e-bike in these ports, not too mention just how long it would take to charge, 3-5 hours sometime.

[@alvaroq2024]

So who’s to say that while waiting inside one of these charging stations that the battery won’t blow up!

[@EBikes420]

@@alvaroq2024 Good Point

[@E-BikingAdventures]

I do deliveries on my ebikes and I can tell you that driving back to a charging hub and pluging in for 10 mins before I get another delivery is not going to work for me. It takes 6 hours to charge my batteries.

[@duewhit310]

One to charge one to drive Everybody needs 2, just like the goddamn cars

[@fiansobg]

If you charge it at 1 or 2A yes it's not going to cut it. But you can easily achieve 8 to 10A easily on most EDPM. It's not good for the battery life span but having the possibility to fast charge open a new world of possibilities.

[@fiansobg]

Even 10mn if you charge slow is cool to have if the hub is near restaurants. Might not be enough to keep up all day long but it definitely will extend your range

[@callishandy8133]

Some good answers yet. Ok you earn money with the help of your muscels and your battery cells. Your muscels will work a lot of years. Bur these cells have an end of life charge and decharge cycle life. Bad if you charge it with high AMP Not good (better bad) to charge more than very mutch more than 80% . Or use it down to ?? % will be extreeeeem bad for the lifetime. Your brain find the yer and the age to earn money in a job for a longer lifetime in your life on planet earth ? Ok , our problem and your decision how to earn some dollars. Meanwhile ride your bike for the deliveries, but search for the wayy out ... By the way = The muscles and bones get older AND quicker the battery cells get older. By the way = I dont know how many dollar you pax in oure state for these part.

Hey it is safe to leave batteries over charge it looks like my charger turns off by itself but idk I have an arrow bike btw

[@spiker702]

The manufacturers should be required to have the batteries UL certified before they can import them to the US

[@8000RPM.]

You're dreaming,...

[@alvaroq2024]

One day that might happen, but that’s gonna take years to fruition!

[@ericolens3]

most are. but theres 2 sub categories to consider 1) cheapo companies 2) DIY enthusiats those dont care about quality but price. DIY is a wide range of people that unless they understand to buy a charger that has a built in monitor. which would still need to be set since its not pre-programmed to the battery so it must know ALL of the specifications battery size, charge speed, and other stuff. i honestly dont know the correct jargon so i steer clear of that. but knowing watts, amps, volts, and how many cells in a the battery compartment makes the difference between a fire or a battery that lasts longer until its service life finally ends (which could be 2 years or longer, since nothing honestly lasts forever) but the other group which is cheapo companies, theyre kinda the low price point Chinese and other overseas companies. now i dont mean ALL chinese companies are bad since Ive owned very reputable chinese goods and just make a point to stick with the same company for repair parts. (i was an entry level drone flier back then. now i feel more confidant not sinking my drone into the big waters like atlantic ocean, pacific ocean, gulf of mexico, and mississippi river (all of which i have flown over and have come back with my drone, cuz i learned with the $50 drones and kept their maintainence) so yeah, as an enthusiast person I make sure to read and learn about stuff so i dont burn down my house but others like uniformed kids or parents who dont learn about the safety risks before hand... well lets just say theyre in the news after learning the hard way. LIPO fires are not cool. 😅

[@alvaroq2024]

@@ericolens3 for a sec I thought you were trying to pitch in the idea of selling $50 drones in droves. 🤔

[@jb5music]

You're deluded... The cheapo companies aren't cheap... The "expesno" companies are expensive. That's who the culprit of expensive batteries and bikes... is. Cheapo companies are normal. "Expenso" companies are the product of opportunist price gouging shills in an opportunist price gouging country.

[@SkaterStimm]

I design my own batteries and they are designed in a way that are much safer than the average battery in a e-bike. Thicker cable, better BMS units, higher quality insulators, etc. I hope laws won't limit my ability to make a safer battery for my own use.

[@SkaterStimm]

@@GNMi79 Homemade is an understatement. These are professionally made batteries that happen to be made in my home (workshop). That's like saying a car restored in someone's garage is not as good as what came from factory. If it is done by a pro, it is pro work.

[@MyKharli]

I agree on the cables , especially 1kw motor feeds are usually barest minimum, but to fit thicker cables is an art ! I have to forgo the `outer `insulation to fit upgraded cables and often the silcone waterproofing is taxing to disassemble .

[@ttonAb2]

I bet they likely will.

[@SkaterStimm]

@@ttonAb2 doubtful.

[@ttonAb2]

@SkaterStimm well I think you need to listen to politicians more, the larger this gets the more concerned insurance companies will get and they will start demanding changes.

[@1hjehje]

When I visited China in late 2023 I read an atricle on this subject. There are huge numbers of electric bikes and scooters on the roads and many apartment buildings won't allow them to be charged in the building due to potential fire issues. Since the crime rate is low people often charge their bikes and scooters outside. The article stated that the government will promote the use of sodium based batteries. Sodium based replacement batteries are safe and are expected to be rolled out early this year with a significant cost reduction of 60 to 70 percent, compared to the current cost of lithium based batteries, when the batteries are produced in large volume. Also, the sodium based batteries perform much better in extreme weather conditions.

[@snowleopard9749]

Sodium based batteries aren't any safer than LiFePO4. The safety or lack of is simply the lower energy density. All batteries regardless of chemistry are dangerous when they have high energy density.

[@MyKharli]

noone likes talking about how safe China is , for everyone , even parks at night ...China bad China baaaaad . I talk to a few Chines nationals and its clear things have been improving yearly for decades for most people , here in the west its bickering sham oligarchic democracies in poorly managed decline .

[@JSM-bb80u]

​@@snowleopard9749no at all.

[@SoloRid3r]

Yes, sodium batteries are abundant and available on earth (salt) and much faster to charge, here in the Philippines, i only know one shop that uses the sodium battery on ebikes right now, I hope it will outgrow the lithium batteries in time for better safety and cost will be more cheaper.

[@petertaylor8922]

LFP batteries have a much better record of not catching fire...These are ternary batteries.

[@mollyalicebreuill4783]

I was a seller of the lithium-ion e-bike battery before. I deeply know how important raw materials like the battery cell holder and the pure nickel and the quality of the battery cell and the battery management system to prevent the battery from burning. please remind to confirm the battery cell brand before you purchase it and check the history of the factory, whether they are new built or for a long time.

[@rolandthethompsongunner64]

Doesn’t Samsung make the majority of those batteries? And can’t people purchase the cells and construct them themselves?

[@socialfreak6900]

@@rolandthethompsongunner64 Samsung used to be the lead but as of the past decade Chinese knock off's have been FLOODING the market at higher volumes than ever pretending to be Samsung or LG cells

[@tjhessmon4327]

@@rolandthethompsongunner64 No the batteries are constructed by CTAL in China.. they only sell the constructed, complete packs.

[@ghz24]

​@@tjhessmon4327You can get the cells and make your own battery.

[@MyKharli]

Yes but the latest UPP battery ban is BS as the factory has nothing but glowing credits , a youtube channel showing the manufacture and many enthusiast teardowns ..conclusion great value for money and safe used in the manufacturers guidelines, yet official banned it ?

[@alecgolas8396]

E-bikes are super awesome and it's a shame that these fires are occurring.

[@stananders474]

Useless 'nonsense' text. If you've nothing useful to say just say nothing.

[@E-BikingAdventures]

Yo beeatch! EBIKES! Wooooooo hooooo. Huh? Fire?

[@gavincurtis]

Indeed, E-bikes are awesome. It is also very troubling that they are having fires. Probably has everything to do with them made in China with minimal quality control.

[@bartoszwelsberg4293]

@@stananders474 nonsens is that the issue of fires is discussed by lawyers, but not fully qualified engineers trying to find solution to minimise risk of fire, or decrease effects of fire started from ebike battery.

[@Krahamus]

​@@gavincurtis Most electronics are made in China, it's up to companies how safe components are, China just gets orders from whatever country to produce things, and then something happens China gets the blame even tho they just producers and not making decisions for safety

[@ph11p3540]

Apartment blocks owners should do two things: Provide a secure non combustible bike storage shed or secured parking corral for bikes and prohibit E Bike storage in apartment/condo suites.

[@MrBollocks10]

🥴 They should provide.. Blab blah. But then don't let them use it?🙄

[@ghz24]

Or just a fireproof box for the battery to get charged in.

[@dyworking]

5 main reasons of lithium battery fires: Over charging batteries Fast charging at high amps above the input C rating of the cells or fast charging in cold weather causing lithium dendrites Faulty / cheap or missing BMS inside the battery pack Faulty, cheap or mismatching charger Recycled cells with lithium dendrites being used to build "new" battery packs

[@gavincurtis]

Cliffs Notes: Cheap crap from communist countries with mfg that does not care about the end product.

[@johnbolt665]

Or they just go up in flames for no reason whatsoever

[@barrygrant2907]

Reason six--lithium batteries.

[@12villages]

Lithium dendrites grow naturally. Every lithium cell will get its separator punctured at some point in its lifetime. This is why you see so many used server batteries on sale at various online shops. 3-5 years is the max tolerable period, even for lifepo4 cells

[@krakerjak3]

@@johnbolt665 clearly your new to this.

[@Someoneelse415]

You can't control the unlikely event that your battery might explode but you can control what else will catch fire. Always store and charge your battery in a safe place away from other flammable materials so the fire can't spread.

[@MEANASSJAMSTER]

that works in a rural setting ...but not in a city...

[@scottwheeler1641]

Yes the government of the world want to go carbon neutral. But if you live in a high rise building the how can you charge it. Here in the uk thieves have started to steal wall chargers!

[@mr.monitor.]

​@@MEANASSJAMSTER you can put your battery in a battery box/ bag or non combustible container instead of your couch 😊

[@MEANASSJAMSTER]

@@mr.monitor. I plan to build external enclosures / charging areas... - and get co2 (foam) extinguishers...

[@8000RPM.]

A recipe for a stolen bike,...

[@AirDOGGe]

It may be that lipo packs will have to be stored in some sort of metal enclosure instead of plastic battery cases. My E-bike sits in and gets charged in an insulated shed 20 feet from the house. Worse I can lose is several bicycles if it blows.

[@sgil9645]

Just got notice from my CO-op board that ebikes are now banned in the building effective immediately. Gonna miss my little electric beauty - gets me to and from work year-round. Which is worse owning an ebike or buying into a CO-OP?

[@Bonjour-World]

no question: the CO-OP is worse !

[@orbitaljellyfish808]

Trouble with public chargers is the batteries and bikes are super expensive, and slow to charge. They need fire-containment lockers and people will need a second battery to use while the first one charges.

[@Krusty-kl5ej]

The scarier part is, people will be inclined to charge inside in the winter season as the colder weather is pretty restrictive on charging. This will be an interesting winter here in Winnipeg as these units are popping up everywhere.

[@johnwang9914]

Most of the risk can be removed by limiting charge time to four or five hours so a timer might help. Also you could probably build a box out of multiple layers of fire resistant drywall commonly called X-board with a smoke detector inside, that should limit the fire, give you warning and deprive some of the oxygen in the air from mixing with the escaping hydrogen from the metal hydrides. The batteries are often removable modules so fireproof containers could be quite small. Those fireproof document safes are just stuffed with gypsum (drywall) in their walls and you could probably just use one of those safes to charge the batteries in.

[@DaKrawnik]

Charge a bike battery inside like a phone? Oh my. Next they'll be charging cars in garages...Who came up with that notion?

[@johnwang9914]

@@DaKrawnik Many e-bike batteries can be removed to be charged inside simply so they won't be stolen. It's not like the batteries are very large, you can usually fit two of them into your briefcase or backpack. As to charging cars, well there are small EV cars where the batteries are the size of carry on luggage and they can be taken inside to be charged though those battery packs are quite low in capacity, about 6 kwh. One such EV minicars would be the Fiat Topolino and it is meant to be recharged indoors off a typical household outlet. Another such mini-car is the Biro. The Gogoro scooters in Taiwan have removable battery packs (2.5 kwh) that you remove to charge indoors. The fact that you can't conceive of removable e-bike and even mini-car batteries that can be charged indoors is more an indication of your own limitations and your own attempts to validate your cognitive bias. Charging e-bikes, scooters and even minicars indoors already happens.

[@ghz24]

​@@johnwang9914That is exactly the kind of solution needed. Include some pulverized limestone or quicklime filter to react with the HF and it's good to go. There are no hydrides in the battery.

[@johnwang9914]

@@ghz24 There are reactive metals, there are hydrogen so there are hydride even if temporarily and not a primary constituent. It's like how a RV ammonia absorption refrigerator has high amounts of hydrogen all because of the ammonia. There is something within the battery that has hydrogen that can disassociate during a thermal runaway. Lithium, nickel and manganese by themselves can not produce hydrogen or oxygen, there has to be compounds with hydrogen and oxygen for either hydrogen or oxygen to be produced. Now, both hydrogen and oxygen can be from water hence the electrolyte but as we see from solid state batteries, one of the strategies of battery formulation is to reduce the amount of water required and if course the aqueous hydrogen and hydroxide are free to react with the reactive metals hence hydrides.

[@tafifish]

About a week ago my entire garage went up in flames because one of my electric bike batteries exploded while plugged into the wall. Ever since then I’ve been trying to do as much research as I can on the history of these batteries exploding. I really hope we can all convince our cities and local governments to have stricter regulations on the manufacturing of these electric bike parts; so that people like me, as well as the general public, can feel safe using electrified bicycles. These lithium ion batteries are a lot more dangerous than most people realize, and I think soon this is going to become a bigger and bigger issue so we need to start coming up with solutions fast.

[@GeorgeDownsWSJ]

Sorry to hear that. I hope everyone is okay. Please stay safe!

[@houzeroze]

What was the model of this ebike and were you using the original charger? For how long did you own this bike?

[@tafifish]

@@houzeroze It was a DIY kit I ordered on ebay. The battery is an unknown brand, probably manufactured in china. I'm pretty sure that's where it went all wrong. I now know that you should never order batteries from china. They should be ordered from a reputable company like Super73 or somethin. Also I was using the original charger.

[@tafifish]

@@GeorgeDownsWSJ Yes everyone is safe! But it was way too close of a call. I only decided to charge the battery in the garage that day because it was acting kinda funky. I usually charge it in my bedroom by the door. The flame from the battery was so intense that if it was in my bedroom, I could have very easily burned alive. Scary stuff!

[@ToOpen6seven]

@@tafifish WOW, glad you are OK and thank you for being honest about this and sharing your information.

[@volkhen0]

I’ve made a e-bike myself including battery with real-time Bluetooth BMS monitoring during charging. Its build like a tank. I trust this bike more then Chinese batteries.

[@Hproawesome]

But can we trust you build it yourself without an engineer degree?

[@marquis-_5501]

@@Hproawesome sdfu my guy

[@IHateYoutubeHandles615]

Where were the batteries made?

[@edd943]

@@IHateKZbinHandles615 Really stupid question. I am 100% sure he used cells like Panasonic LG,or other brands. No one will spend on a good BMS and cheap out on batteries. Check most bike fire compilations, most of the fires are not from DIY builds. I Build my own stuff for years, never had an issue, that is because I understand how they work and what needs to happen for them to get to a critical point.

[@sunrisejak2709]

Do you trust your Chinese made Apple iPhone? How about the Chevy volt with S. Korean made batteries? What about the US made Teslas that cough fire in Florida after hurricane water damage. This is not necessarily about country of origin.

[@niksutliff]

Isn't it because they're effectively abandoned on the sidewalks for long periods of time? Exposure to sunlight, heat, and now cold / rain / ice cannot be good for cheap batteries in these devices

[@TigerTT]

That's probably why I never had any trouble with my last premade ebike. I literally charged it inside my room every night with no issues.

[@Nickles4]

@@TigerTT I leave mine in the basement of my house and charge it inside and this is significantly concerning me

[@hallu7477]

​@@Nickles4 me too man. Now I'm concerned

[@Nickles4]

@@hallu7477 little update that put my mind at ease, I bought a bike cover and bike lock and just leave it outside and charge the battery where I can see it at all times Incase something happens

[@ppeppe]

Don't charge below freezing though, doing this frequently leads to lithium dendrites that eventually short the battery.

[@m9078jk3]

A partial solution -placing Sodium Bicarbonate between each battery in the battery packs. Sodium Bicarbonate when heated to 100 degrees Centigrade (212 degrees Fahrenheit) releases Carbon Dioxide which asphyxiates oxygen fed fires . Essentially these battery packs go into thermal runaway with the many multiple batteries are susceptible to heat and especially oxygen. One battery bursting into flame can cause other batteries to go into thermal runaway. Without oxygen or in an inert atmosphere combustibles can't combust. This might not stop a battery pack fire since every battery contains its own oxygen but it could greatly slow the combustion rate and may prevent some batteries from not combusting, I keep a small box of baking soda in my ebikes trunk bags which contains my battery pack. Alternatively store lots of baking soda and have good working smoke detectors in the enclosed area especially near ebikes and their battery packs. Especially store baking soda on possible combustible items in your residence. The released carbon dioxide will asphyxiate a fire but also will asphyxiate a human too so either quickly put out the fire yourself or else flee quickly and alert the proper fire department authorities. Storing lots of baking soda near possible combustion areas like near a kitchen stove or toaster etc could very well stop a house fire. But again be sure to have working smoke detectors otherwise you too could get asphyxiated by released carbon dioxide which is a poison to humans in high concentrations. On the plus side Baking soda is very inexpensive.

[@mr.monitor.]

You can't go wrong with baking soda. It has many uses.

[@NorthernKitty]

Lithium Ion battery fires are chemical fires and actually generate their own supply of both oxygen and hydrogen. Additionally, Lithium Ion battery fires burn extremely hot. The burning lithium metal can reach up to 3600 degrees Fahrenheit. CO2 exposed to such a high temperature will actually split the atom and you end up with pure oxygen. Applying CO2 foam, for example, will actually make the fire worse. The best way to extinguish a Lithium Ion battery fire is by cooling it.

[@mr.monitor.]

@NorthernKitty you gotta fan it and cool it Honey till the cows come home

[@f.d.6667]

Unfortunately, CO2 doesn't work on Lithium fires - you need a special water-based foam extinguisher like the Bavaria X6... they are cheap too: only around 390,00 a pop!

[@m9078jk3]

@@f.d.6667 You say that and you can say that. CO2 prevents other combustibles nearby from catching on fire. You don't believe it that's your choice.

[@rickyjulian496]

Stick an Lfp lifep04 battery on them. Much less likely to catch on fire. Plus 3000 charge cycles.

[@callishandy8133]

Can you write the pros and cons ? Your LiFePO4 type is able to deliver the Amps like a highest risk lithium ion (or lithium polymere) type ? What is the prefered cell technology at RC cars and RC planes in your country by privat persons and there RC toys ? Remember = Money these persons have in an amount that they can spend it for expensive parts. When they switch to LiFePO4 technology than it is best for low weight, low volume and extreeeeeeeemmmmmm high Amp for there super small electric engines. Attention there are really highest technology electric engines but for small money bank accounts these are cheap lower high-current engines ... You look for the performance toys for pleasure. Look for these person in your area. I am shure somewhere in your area are these person without children and young adult RC cars (or RC planes) . these persons without the will of spending tons of money for RC models are not good for your ears.

[@mathieugilbert1149]

@@callishandy8133 I doubt anybody(maybe a really small percentage) in the west are using LiPo as they are literally fire hazards. Most LiFePO4 can deliver 2-5C which is in the range of Li-ion batteries.

[@ghz24]

​@@callishandy8133Cons energy density is lower so the battery will be a little bigger and heavier. Pros they won't burn your ass to a crisp and 6000 charge cycles Amps are not an issue.

[@massimomelosi1546]

Litium ion cell has the advantage to store a great quantity of energy in a small volume and weight. In normal condition this chemical energy is transformed in electric power but, if the battery is damaged the chemical energy is simply transformed in heat and so it comes the fire. Usually this happens when the menbrane that separates anode and catode breaks and catode and anode come in direct contact. This can happen if there is an accident but also for overloading/overdischarging and heating the battery. Short circuit also may produce this effect and this can happen if the battery comes in contact for example with sea water.

[@sinebar]

The government needs to take these things off the market until the manufacturers fixes the problem.

[@ghz24]

No there are simple solutions.

[@MyKharli]

I talk to my Chinese battery manufacturer , they say its all anti chinese bs and no evidence has been provided to them to show its not user caused , ie using after damage , wrong charger etc .

[@solarwind907]

@@MyKharli your Chinese battery manufacture is lying to you. Brand name laptops with brand-name chargers. Don’t spontaneously catch on fire. Cheap Chinese ebike batteries do. And cheap Americans love to buy them. And then complain.

[@firstnamelastname8060]

"E-Bike Batteries Keep Exploding. What’s the Solution?" A regular bike.

[@esioanniannaho5939]

Yep Charging -Not in hallways Nesr Stairs or Exits. Extension cords to outside is best. Watch the amp in charger do not exceed the spec. Do not fast charge.

[@Dr_Mario2007]

At least I am glad I already knew how to actually use Lithium-ion batteries safely (I am a hobbyist, mind you), as well as understanding how safety circuits work, so I now know what to look for, that unfortunately means I have to take safety design seriously, in other words, won't be cheap. I understand the danger of the batteries, and they're obviously not a joke. However, I have seen badly put together or just cheap batteries go up in smoke in general, yet reputable companies have a fair share of problems, mostly not following the datasheets' strongly worded warnings to the letters, or just wanting to cut the corner. Still, it's a very scary situation, as it happens quickly.

[@leeedsonetwo]

I want an e bike as I am 70 and riding my pedal bike is hard work. I would keep it in my garage along with my motor bikes and huge amounts of equipment so this fire issue worries me.

[@EDD519]

it ain`t the E-bikes fault ! its the BATTERIES ! outlaw the batteries !!!

[@xtraxtrareadallaboutit]

Fire Safety boxes for charging/storing etc is the best bet

[@johnwang9914]

Safer batteries such as LiFePo, solid state and sodium ion, better programmed battery management and chargers that cut off charging at 80%, valling 20% as 0% and 80% as 100% with true 100% being called dangerously overcharged to 133% and true 0% as emergency depletion to -33%. The use of multiple layers of fire resistant drywall in housing and smoke detectors perhaps cutting off receptacle power. Covering your e-bike with a fireproof blanket while charging to contain the fire (it's becoming the common approach to handling EV fires by fire men replacing the previous approach of removing the heat with vast quantities of water despite the fact that the lithium would chemically react with the water to produce more hydrogen and oxygen under the runaway temperatures in addition to the hydrogen it is producing from metal hydrides within the batteries, the water also presented the runoff being toxic wastes).

[@ghz24]

The multiple layers of drywall only need to be on a small box used to charge and store the battery. Wayer does not make more hydrogen or oxygen and is very effective if it can be injected into the case where it can steal the heat. There is no lithium hydride as this is a lithium ion battery not a lithium metal batery. The most toxic component is HF gas in the smoke which reacts with water to make hydrofluoric acid which reacts with the limestone in the water to precipitate out as the common mineral fluorite. (Calcium fluoride). LFP are nice but a trade off for weight and range and their voltage is not indicative of charge state so more complex monitoring electronics are needed.

[@truthiscensored]

What some EUC (Electric Unicycle) companies and dealers are doing is putting a Samsung batteries and/or Smart BMS (Battery Management System) to manage the battery and keep from overheating/overcharging during charging. Have not been many EUC fires since. Most of those fires are from cheap and/or NO Name e-bike and e-scooter brands that people buy on Amazon. They see they can have the same specifications as a $2000 Well Known Brand Scooter/e-bike for ONLY $600, so they buy and end up burning their house down

[@grazz7865]

I have 2 e-scooters. Total of 3 (one I gave away to a friend). It is true what the video is saying about over use and the batteries getting too hot or over worked. I only use my scooters for basic transportation each way to and from work. When I charge, I put the charger on a timer (7 hours). The BMS (battery management system) should shut it off automatically, but just for a precaution, I put the timer on to prevent over charging. I also turn a fan on to keep the battery and the charger cool while charging. Simple precautions like that go a long way.

[@biffmalibu3733]

Wouldn't it be easier to require flamible material cabinets so the fire couldn't spread. Think firesafe type box. Damn politicians always wanting to create more government agencies to regulate and waste money.

[@MyKharli]

old ovens are great

[@rsinclair689]

Toxicity of the smoke is another factor.

[@dorisatkinson7259]

A lesson from cold weather RVs. Use AGM batteries not lithium. A little more weight, but way safer and can be charged in cold weather.

[@ghz24]

Lol a little more weight? Get real they are the most expensive batteries to own next to FLA and far from only a little heavier. Get lithium titanate if you want cold weather charging. You get twice the energy per kg and 20,000 charge cycles gives 54 years of life at one cycle per day. AGM are a joke.

[@NotSoFast71]

Lots of the fires are caused by people trying to improvise a charging solution on stolen ebikes. They steal the bike or buy it stolen then use the wrong charger or some rigged method of charging. The thief obviously doesn't steal the charger along with the bike.

[@danajorgensen1358]

Problem is, most e-bike batteries and related chargers have ZERO intelligence to them. My electric riding mower and its charger talk to each other to disconnect the charger when the batteries are fully charged and shut down the charger.

[@MikeBrown-dk7or]

Bosch chargers have this.

[@brianhood4182]

Have you ever noticed an E bike catch fire while someone is riding the same, I have not so is it the charger the at fault or the plug in cable which get's damaged and causes a fire, or is it where the E bike is charged like in the home which could be warm and there is no where that the heat can escape. I charged the E bike in the bathroom just to be on the safe side. If this a problem surely Hong Kong which makes NY look quite open I've not heard or seen any TV reports of fires there.

[@chriswiseman3668]

Looks good for the environment 🎉

[@andre-n2jdh]

How about swapping batteries. If there’s an issue of charging and discharging, there needs to be a charger bad that can analyze the battery, the same or similar way Motorola does radio batteries. Those news stands or those old train stations could serve as slow charging stations. The BMS might be over heating and failing. BMS being battery management system. Also, checking the wires used and seeing how long they last. Remember, wire coating could be melting. I would say use the Amateur Radio community, electronics and anyone that uses them, might provide more information on where they’ve seen failures.

[@RPMac]

Good info...all towns need some kind of charging hubs...just need a safe place with electric outlets .

[@vmobile890]

When mail boxes are not safe anymore where would be safe battery charging from theft also the battery owner .

[@houseofbaboshka6456]

A friend of mine had a mobility scooter which was charging in the garage when it went on fire, lucky it was not in his house. We depend on these scooters to keep our independance and now we have worry about the batteries going on fire.

[@christophercharles3169]

The old adage, "you get what you paid for" comes to mind. Only, in this case, saving money could get you and others killed. The battery certification is what sold me on our e-bikes but I realize that not everyone can afford them. The certification process is expensive which is why a lot of manufacturers don't certify their batteries. It allows them to keep the cost down and remain competitive. When they start facing criminal consequences when an uncertified battery they sold with their e-bike kills someone, attitudes will change. No matter what the solution is, it won't come cheaply.

[@jeffjambois7696]

The products which are causing the problems are not in the US legal system, they are in the China legal system, so unfortunately, criminal charges will neve be filed in most cases.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@jeffjambois7696 That's true. They will eventually make the purchaser responsible or liable to some degree.

[@Ozkar2023]

I have an ancheer mt3 is a regular mountain bike with a removable battery and doesn't even warm up because is the model with the ul certification fail proof circuitry and it doesn't go faster than 15 miles per hour with 350w motor, all those that got fire I'm sure are the ones that go faster and with a throttle that is over used so they get hot and teenagers modify the controller by either opening and disconnect the speed controller or if they have a lcd you get a code that makes the bike go up to 25 or more , besides the kits that have no brand name and parts bought cheap you have to know the amps of the battery and the watts and volts or the charger etc , if you buy a new bike In a store with a good name everything is design to work together , also is good to buy a lipo bag( fireproof bag) that you can charge the battery inside and carry out when you smell any smoke,but always be there when charging I don't even let my phone charging when I'm sleeping ,I saw a fire starting just from leaving the cheap unbranded charger plugged in the wall without anything charging it just started smoking ,no fire but sparks were flying in a short circuit, unplug fans too when you're not using them

[@jeremyashford2145]

Used to be couriers pedalled their cycles. Did they get lazy, or greedy?

[@wolftickets1969]

You may recall Apple's "HindenBook" scandal with their Macintosh Powerbooks in the 1990s. Now we have "HindenBikes".

[@miamibeachvf]

Several years ago it was the hoverboard

[@segoiii]

... i bet with the same chinese noname cells. Watch the Louis Rossmann case.

[@Bonjour-World]

Using safer lithium Ion Battery chemistries would go a long way toward solving the problem. LiFePO4 batteries do are less space and weight efficient but one hell of a lot safer !

[@callishandy8133]

True LiFEePO4 is today ... Keep an eye at the newest technology. It will soon come common in permium product (I think 2024) It will find there way to the cheapest mass production later . But I see there different pro and cons for each technolog of battery cell types. Your turn dear readers eyes (and brain). I am sure you got a Ddisplay, computer, internet and google. I hope the rest to find ans understand the infirmation will be fine too.

[@bjorn1583]

I have had my befang modded ebike for 7 years now still with original battery without issue but I still only charge it with the battery in a stainless steel trough as a safety measure. the biggest issue now is there are far too many uncertified batteries on the market because of the lack of enforced gov standards

[@supremefire31xd88]

This saved me money, thanks to KZbin.

[@MichaelToub]

Great Video!

[@jamesbernard8072]

A temperature warning device And modes to prevent overcharging

[@georgekrpan3181]

The Electrek KZbin channel has tested a thousand ebikes and has never experienced a fire, says fires are very rare. At any rate, always buy batteries with name brand cells, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, etc.

[@6ettinold]

Unless you open up your new battery with it's alleged Samsung or LG cells, how do you know it has those inside?!

[@georgekrpan3181]

@@6ettinold The battery of my ebike says Samsung cells on the battery case. The website of the seller of my ebike says the battery uses Samsung cells.

[@segoiii]

fires are not very rare. You cannot properly test this. It would take years.

[@georgekrpan3181]

@@segoiii I personally haven't heard of a fire in my community. There's lots of people on ebikes here in SoCal, riding all year long.

[@krotson6767]

The problem is this. People don't know how to use an electric bike. How can you leave your phone in the sun at noon? So how can you leave an electric bike with a 100 times larger battery in the sun? Problem two. Manufacturers cannot design batteries or they do it cheaply instead of quality. Many inventors have long patented thermistors, fuses, and various control systems. There is not even a cooling panel or fan in the bicycle battery to dissipate heat. Problem three. Due to design flaws and the rush of people, they want to charge the battery in 30 minutes. What can be done, however, must be dissipated from the battery during charging. This is where plastic comes in, which is basically a heat insulator and burns well. Just avoid fast charging, hide the batteries in the shade and think. In the past, people also thought that to check how much fuel was left in the tank of a combustion car with a broken fuel meter, it was enough to shine a lit match. Those who did this are no longer among the living. It is worth following the example of others who use the Common Sense brand. Google translator

[@stananders474]

I think the only way foward is to store batteries and bikes outdoors. Also, I believe there is a battery that can't catch fire but more money.

[@MikeBrown-dk7or]

I suggest paying extra and getting a Bosch motor and battery.

[@jeffreystorer4966]

Same thing happens in Australia ,fire department say lot of house fires are starting, charge n bikes scooters etc, everything you owned high price to pay for a toy

[@hansemannluchter643]

Here in Europe people use them for daily transportation, does that sound like a toy to you?

[@jeffreystorer4966]

@@hansemannluchter643 I spose if your house burns down you won't have anywhere to travel from,so there's that

[@Mike-ql4sz]

Ebike batteries keep exploding in USA. Because US bikes are using cheap Chinese batts. I didnt see/heard of a batt fire at a German/Swiss/European ebike.

[@glennmorgan4197]

Your also talking about a minute percentage of the bikes. 200 out of what 120,000? I'm fairly certain that the problem isn't as bad as advertised.

[@liberatumplox625]

If only we could harness that explosive power inside some kind of cylinder block - and then use it to drive a piston - that in turn is attached to a cam shaft.

[@bellowphone]

Radical! And alcohol for the fuel, which is how the internal combustion engine was originally developed. It's superior to gasoline for so many reasons.

[@liberatumplox625]

@@bellowphone Agreed!

[@JI7NKJ]

I never charge my battery overnight/sleeping also see people being heavy handed with them or dropping them which is not good for lithium batteries.

[@nightfog1722]

One thing which could work is to have the batteries divided into separate smaller batteries. So in the unlikely scenario that thermal runaway does occur, it can be isolated. Say, only 1/10th of the total battery will get destroyed rather than the whole thing. Most ebike batteries contain roughly 100 cells and it usually just takes one faulty battery to cause thermal runaway. With this you would only lose 10 cells as opposed to the whole pack.

[@Stfuniglet]

i just got an e scooter as a gift. im not sure is it is safe but it looks real and goes really fast.

[@johnwilson9666]

Where were they made 😕

[@drexq_477]

Certainly, there are safety concerns regarding the potential for e-bikes to catch fire, particularly for individuals who have recently made such a purchase. Manufacturers, some of whom are located overseas in countries like China or Japan, bear a significant responsibility in this matter. Unfortunately, it can be challenging to establish contact with these manufacturers to address issues related to fire safety. In light of these concerns, it is advisable to prioritize the selection of high-quality e-bikes and avoid opting for cheaper alternatives. Additionally, it is crucial to thoroughly review the warranty coverage and other relevant details before finalizing the purchase of an e-bike.

[@OOICU812]

Seems to me that a fireproof container of some sort while charging would be a possible solution to these battery fires.

[@jamesloll4601]

fireproof container CAN contain the fire... it's the explosions where that logic falls apart. A bag will NOT contain an explosion. If it were ONLY that simple... .. .

[@manoz6194]

@@jamesloll4601 Amazon sell explosion proof bags for ebike batteries, although I don't know how a bag can be "explosion proof"

[@jamesloll4601]

@@GNMi79 Kind of figured that out too but doubt you'll worry about THAT after it explodes! LOL

[@Drymarro]

you can put the bag inside a metal ammo box or something@@jamesloll4601

[@segoiii]

you cannot properly test the internals of a LiIon cell. Especially not in a pack with dozens of them. It´s impossible to see if there are any internal issues that could lead to a fire.

[@johnstfleur1729]

one of the things companies can do i think will remedy a lot of the issue is to add a timer on the batteries that tells the owner that the battery reached its limit...

[@Fehr270]

How is it not illegal to import uncertified electrical devices or components? The fire risk s why everything that can be plugged in or wired in needs to be certified.

[@craigshelhammer5683]

The amount of people who do zero research before getting into a hobby or purchasing things is baffling to me. For those who aren't aware,the one thing you don't cheap out on is your battery/charging system...want to avoid fires? That will eliminate 99% of them.

[@MAVENdeNYC]

Unfortunately going to an outdoor charging station isn't the answer for now, as all it takes is for one bike/scooter to go up in flames to take those in its vicinity with it. So it's just one person/worker without a bike, now we have multiple.

[@jimbates955]

Maybe an intermittent charging system might be a good idea…10’ charging, 3’ off or similar to prevent overheating, or an automatic shutoff system with alarm if the battery reaches a certain temperature

[@yaash4123]

The BMS should have overheat and over charge protection. On cheap batteries, this might not be the case. This is why there is a need for certification.

[@socialfreak6900]

the problem is that these cheap batteries are widely available and lack such features, they are so available that some reputable brands have been caught lacking trying to save a few bucks at the cost of a customer

[@paulgtal]

Always charge your batteries outside, In 5 years of ebike riding Ive never had any issue with batteries, Ive got 7 ebikes all 52 volt battery types and only one has failed becauce of age and wear etc, good batteries have a cut out off in the BMS or the charger when the correct voltage is achived so it shouldent overcharge, its the cheap batteries and chargers that dont, charge outside if in doubt with a fire extingisher nearby.

[@vmobile890]

The Batt 🏏🦇tree 🌳 what’s a micro mobility device like a computer device ?

[@goatmane5956]

If u get a good battery with genuine cells not filled with sand and charger with overheat protection u should be fine

[@crazyobservations3080]

LiFePO4 is the answer. Slightly heavier, slightly less range. A lot less houses burnt down. Its why they use them for boats. The last thing you ever want is to be stranded on a burning boat.

[@chrissvideos8405]

regulate battery , and BMS quality would help. We allow the cheapest into the country and this adds to the issue

[@redalert2834]

So if I buy a bike marked UL 2849 there is ZERO chance the batteries will catch fire??? And someone will come along and REGULARLY check the batteries??? How will they even know where the bike is located???

[@dominicmanester8125]

Certified just means 'more safe' and could lead to complacency. The safest batteries in the world can sometimes break down and explode, especially on an E-Bike that is exposed to the elements and the wear and tear of regular use. Plus most people don't even know how to look for damaged parts on batteries or dangerous signs of age until the thing is basically imminently about to explode.

[@boblatkey7160]

Those statistics show that these types of fires are really not that big of a deal at all, as there are way more car accidents and people getting run over in intersections and gasoline car fires etc.. And it will only get better as technology improves and battery management systems become more intelligent and higher in quality.

[@SheldonRunkle]

How is it we get Britts reporting on our u.s. news ? ? !

[@rickc2222]

The solution: I have 2 - a cheap one and an expensive one. Cheap solution: take a 30% hit on capacity and go with Lithium Iron Phospate cells - they dont spontaneously burn. Expensive solution: stricter requirements for battery mfg processes and battery packs contained in fully sealed metal casings, not the cheap plastic casings. and make those case-less homemade shrink wrapped pathetic batteries super illegal

[@onetailgunner]

Stop beating the crap out of it

[@anthonytruta2745]

Make lithium batteries illegal till the manufacturers can make them safe and fine them if they still catch fire!

[@docchocobo]

9x out of 10, you find that the battery you got contains generic cells instead of the really good name brand sells that you paid extra for. Battery housing should be clear so you can look directly at the cells to make sure they're what you paid for before you put it on your bike. There's already been one company in the EU that's been banned for doing this and taking the extra money and pocketing it

[@johnjriggsarchery2457]

The only two rechargeable things I own is an EGo two stage snowblower and a Milwaukee circular saw. The batteries in those are enough to concern me. All of my motorcycles run on gas.

[@CeeLyd1000]

How about owning more than one battery and only use one battery x amount of hours and use the other battery.

[@richardhenry5961]

If the Batteries are not UL listed certified, you just don't buy it. Then counterfeit comes into play. Battery with all the technology we have today, it should stop charging if it has issues. The battery checks it self, by not excepting the charge.

[@IkaikaArnado]

Can e-bikes use something else than lithium? Like NiMH?

[@joistein]

Best to use non litium battery's.

[@McMillanScottish]

All costs of subsidies and benefits get passed to the consumer, regardless of who initially pays. No one else will absorb the beating.

[@vjnobody]

Use swappable batteries that slow charge, don't run them super low, keep them charged to around 20%. done.

[@bellowphone]

Correct. But how do you get the average dope to pay attention to all that?

[@vjnobody]

@@bellowphone Do it in software, make it transparent that it is done for better battery life, also the battery's bigger. Another thing? Limit the chargeable capacity to 80-90%

[@cyclist68]

It cant help that a decent battery is worth, £600 so charging them anywhere pother than at home is a risk of theft. I have a secure garden so use a cable lead outside to a rainproof box where I charge it. If it goes up its safely away from everything but i realise its not a solution for everyone

[@pandakso3365]

So what's the culprit?

[@davidinmossy]

Lithium batteries are in a lot of devices now are we going to ban them ? Or just the ones that give people freedom of movement ?

[@patrickmial9113]

I wonder if a small barbeque grill would keep a e-bike battery on fire while charging from catching your place on fire?

[@JI7NKJ]

Sounds good.

[@Longtrailside]

It would melt it to the ground. Even stainless steel bbq doesn't stand a chance. The heat generated by these batteries is insane.

[@patrickmial9113]

@@Longtrailside Sounds like an open field is the only safe place to charge.

[@Longtrailside]

@@patrickmial9113 Ya your about right on that. They need to make them safer. Other wise a lot more people would own them, but due to the risk factors they dont.

[@ArtyVanHoming]

what i never hear in all these arguments and figures is the actual brands of the ebike/ scooter that actually went up in flames ,this would be far more useful ,as it would stop people buying that brand .. all it seems now is ,we will give you no actual facts or real data .

[@katiekumcgil]

full stop most are because or user error bypassing bms, pushing battery to its limits every time it riden, all my batteries i build now use immersion cooling ,they are submerged in 3m dilectric liquid ,which means fire is impossible ,and they never over heat ,thermal ruunnaway is the leading cause of fire,and this would stop all of them

[@katiekumcgil]

the cooling system can also warm the cells in minuus temps if required ,i uuse basic computer cpu cooling set up to cool the liquid but most bikes would only need a heat sink

[@searaydrivingguy]

I have a 2022 Cypress one 750 watt, fat-bike e-bike. i try and charge it outside when the weather is good, and i keep my eye on it, i check for anything over heating every hour, i try and not go past 40 percent battery its faster to charge, and i only charge to 80 or 90 percent. don't overcharge it.

[@StarsAtNight1]

The solution is educating people who use these li-on batteries, or switch to a safer chemistry battery

[@amaremihret2448]

Tnx for the video

[@Jude13able]

If these batteries are this dangerous the DOT will have to operate like the FAA and require 50 to 100 hour inspections by DOT certified inspectors. This might need to happen with any mode of transportation that uses these type batteries.