Large IRS fine after buying home from a foreign national

[@jamestk656]

So Congress made it so that the buyer has to sue the seller to get the IRS their money instead of the IRS suing the seller directly themselves? What a back-asswards regulation.

[@KitaJabig]

www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/firpta-withholding The homeowner is supposed to pay 85% to the seller, pay 15% to the IRS.

[@twyiatv]

ASS BACKWARDS

[@crypticnomad]

yeah that just doesn't make sense. It is like saying 2+2=taco. It just doesn't

[@jesusgaud8]

Or that 1x1=2 🙄

[@kevinkevinkevin1909]

Politicians causing troubles again.

[@keithss67]

And this is why people absolutely detest the IRS

[@neilkurzman4907]

Did you hear the part where Congress actually wrote a law to force them to do this?

[@keithss67]

@ they are hardly beloved either

[@carlkuna4544]

Not me, I like the IRS. They make sure no one is above the law when comes to take their part. You can cheat on them but once they stand, they have the way to force to have their due.

[@CellKarstaschian]

​@@carlkuna4544 IRS It's already been cheated by scammers and frauds. Millions of dollars by regular people scamming them. 😢 We need a strong security on our internet and all high tech devices

[@VaporheadATC]

@@carlkuna4544 So, you like the fact the IRS went after the people that actually didn't owe the money?

[@PromoCodeLady]

THAT'S NOT THE BUYERS RESPONSIBILITY.

[@BajatheChickenMan]

This is extortion. We the People should not have to live in fear of the IRS. This needs to end.

[@lHurtYourFeeIings]

It actually is. The law requires the BUYER to withhold taxes on foreigner's income, just like how your boss would withhold taxes from your wages. If your boss withheld taxes from your paycheck and doesn't pay it to the IRS, your BOSS is the one responsible, not you the employee. In this case, the BUYER paid the IRS late as they rely on their lawyer to pay it, but legally it is still the buyer's responsibility.

[@check-yoo-self-l8y]

Arrest the person who didnt pay.. Attacking the weak.

[@Necrotic99]

Sadly, congress did make it the buyers responsability in the end..

[@check-yoo-self-l8y]

@ nicrotic69. Only normal people have money and business want it.. Boyscott anybody you dislike. Hope they lose the company

[@BK-qp8zp]

I'm so sick of the bullying tactics of the IRS and the lawmakers who make them possible.

[@neilkurzman4907]

Why do you blame the IRS when the lawmakers make these laws. Do you do what your boss tells you?

[@yeah_right88]

​@@neilkurzman4907.you're wrong. The IRS makes their own rules

[@jakecarruthers6513]

​@@neilkurzman4907did you not read the entire comment? Seems pretty clear that he was also blaming the "lawmakers who make them possible."

[@neilkurzman4907]

@@jakecarruthers6513 Same to me he was blaming both. The IRS has no choice, but the follow the law.

[@neilkurzman4907]

@ the IRS makes rules not laws. If there was no law behind this the court, wouldn’t accept it.

[@cee-emm]

"You're not the one who owes us the money, but you're the only one with an asset we can go after to get it"

[@glbernini0]

I used to work for a title company & these complications should have been highlighted BEFORE CLOSING!

[@hanibalporte88]

There was no issue with the closing; closing was fine. After closing, covid happened, everything shut down, and the foreigner's lawyer sat on the money until he reopened his office nine months later, and then...then, paid the IRS. Nine months of interest/fines later... Well, you get it.

[@brentfarvors192]

Like stated; Neither party was aware before closing.

[@jeffsanfrancisco]

@@brentfarvors192this law is a standard disclosure in sale transactions. Buyer should have been aware of FIRPTA. It is the law and the withholding from the seller is the buyers responsibility. Since they hired an attorney to make sure all was handled correctly the buyer can recover from: the attorney.

[@glbernini0]

@@brentfarvors192 If neither party wasn't made aware , THE CLOSING COMPANY DIDN'T DO ITS JOB!

[@brentfarvors192]

@@glbernini0 No argument here...

[@yeah_right88]

He should file a complaint with the bar against the incompetent attorney.

[@richardbirkenwald811]

No. Not necessarily an ethical breach, but definitely, malpractice. The possibility of filing a lawsuit against the closing agent and the seller's attorney should be explored.

[@francismarion6400]

That could take years and thousands of dollars and is not a reasonable solution for an American citizen to have to deal with.

[@ArtStoneUS]

So why does the United States government believe they have a right to 10% of the sales price?

[@rongendron8705]

Excellent question! The IRS would simply, "Because we can!" p.s. Does this rule also apply to when you buy a home from a Canadian? There's a lot of them, especially in Florida!

[@blackmarket1891]

I live in Japan. And I gotta pay IRS if my salary is too high 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@NickCBax]

It’s a capital gains tax. The seller needs to file taxes in the US, since it’s a US asset.

[@wickedpawn5437]

The tax for foreign sellers should be 50%. Look at what happened to Canada's real estate market with zero control to foreign buyers.

[@Jmg831]

@@wickedpawn5437100% tax would be better or better yet don’t let foreign nationals to buy property in the US, specially to hold it for profit

[@janofb]

I had a problem with the IRS and finally called my Congressional Representative. It was solved in 2 weeks. The real problem is when you call, you have low level employees at the IRS who just follow what their screen tells them. They can't madke decisions or deal with unusual issues. It has to be escalated.

[@kwkstar]

You mean stupid !

[@Tarenreal]

Thank you

[@AlvieeG]

@janofb they can make decisions....they just can't fix the issue right then and there...by you going to your representative....you are "leapfrogging" over other taxpayers that are waiting for their issue to be resolved ...nothing else.

[@Baebon6259]

@@AlvieeG nothing wrong with that...maybe other should have contact their representative as well.

[@francismarion6400]

87,000 more of them than in 2019!

[@51colibri]

Rule # 1, if the IRS make a mistake, you have to fix it.

[@KK-pm7ud]

Government overreach. Justice for Peanut!

[@tharblin]

Damn you're right they murdered peanut!

[@smithlinm4532]

The attorney is sketchy.

[@bigboomer751]

the Attorney took care of it.. seems like a stand up person to me

[@aeroAdvocate]

@@bigboomer751 are you kidding me? He only "took care of it" after the TV station showed up and the guys home was almost seized by the IRS. He should be referred to the bar because he's a crook.

[@steak5599]

@@aeroAdvocate It was During Covid, everything slowed to a crawl, and a lot of things made exception. I guess IRS can't make exceptions when it comes to getting their cut.

[@bigboomer751]

@@aeroAdvocate No, I am NOT kidding you.

[@youcanfixthat8636]

i had this same issue when i purchased a miami condo from foreign person but my attorney sent it on time. The IRS lost the track of it and im glad we had copies of the cashed check plus the signature from the certified mail letter. Took 9 months to resolve!! Them bastards didnt even apologize...

[@mikeymarriott]

IRS is not your friend. They’re ruthless when it comes to collecting even if they’re in the wrong. They screwed me on my EV credit last year and a 7,500 tax credit cost me 8,000 in fines and late fees and they still couldn’t explain why I didn’t get the credit for purchasing an EV. It’s not worth it to hire a tax attorney and I’m not lucky enough to get a news channel to fight for me. Lately it seems as if to solve any issue in America you need an attorney on your right and an investigative news team on your left.

[@kidsmooth6549]

Particularly with these predatory contracts like with how Disney tried to claim the people who went to Disney land and were served food which they said they had allergies to can't sue because of the terms and conditions from using their streaming service, Disney+. Completely absurd.

[@freewillchoice8052]

Or you can learn how to courts work and the law in your jurisdiction so you can handle a lot of what lawyers do for thousands.

[@Bren39]

You most probably didn't get the EV credit because you didn't qualify. Mp you assumed w2 income only.. When it really is AGI. Which could be much more. Right?

[@aaron115651]

​@@freewillchoice8052 exactly

[@poollife777]

Well they shouldn't give credit for people and their stupid electric vehicles anyway. They don't do anything better than a gas vehicle.

[@jaredroussel]

IRS: We decided to garnish your wages because you sold a car to your neighbor, and they don't have a job.

[@xaivang9106]

This is why the IRS needs to be dismantle

[@bikeguyhd1035]

Abolish the IRS! We did fine without it!!

[@unebonnevie]

You can't, because the Federal Reserve prints TOO much money, that is, *debts*, continuously, and the govt is spends recklessly. So, they need to create a gestapo, a.k.a, the IRS to harass people into paying taxes to offset debts.

[@andreward8268]

Soooo how does our US Military get paid?

[@jasonzhu9742]

@@andreward8268Abolishing the IRS does not mean abolish taxes. 10% Flat tax rate that’s how they get paid

[@amritsingh8918]

LMFAO blame congress for passing these laws not the IRS

[@andreward8268]

@@jasonzhu9742 who monitors it?

[@richard09able]

That is not the buyers issue. This is where a tax attorney comes into play. Smh

[@dhowto3005]

Thank you. This was informative! Thank you for helping this gentleman!

[@josha.bdoge2]

I guess no one notice that he was like 68 and she was in her 30's...

[@dougk2932]

He has the money she brings the youth what's your point?

[@FreedomsNurse]

Perfect house "for MY son". Notice not "our" son. "My" son.

[@josha.bdoge2]

@@dougk2932 So you admitted that she is bought and paid for no problem here my friend

[@chadj6380]

as long as they are happy,

[@TheSmark666]

Him: Getting regularly loved by a fine Latina lady You: Complaining about it online

[@aeroAdvocate]

This "attorney" should be named and shamed. There should also be a complaint to the bar association.

[@ImprovmanZero]

No the IRS should be more reasonable

[@vincenttacraebnam8379]

There’s a once in a lifetime forgiveness of penalties - there are also penalty forgiveness clauses because of Covid but you should have: 1) Hire your own attorney and do not rely on the Seller’s; 2) Hire a tax professional (CPA, Tax Attorney or Enrolled Agent)

[@xjssts7127]

And who is going to pay? Maybe you come from money and money is no object but for most people $4000 here and $ 5000 there is a lot.

[@vincenttacraebnam8379]

@ $70,000 is a lot - $1,000 for a CPA is not. They bought a $700,000 home

[@pahanin2480]

Defund the irs

[@twyiatv]

Defund the IRS

[@tamarahines6975]

ok

[@thepotatoofheaven]

teachers and first responders wouldnt get paid

[@AbNomal621]

Defund Congress. Most have fundraising for next campaign as their primary concern. And many look for the easy way to get money.

[@Necrotic99]

The IRS is just following the law, its congress that needs to be defunded, they set up that rule

[@NickCBax]

Fund it properly so it can do its ever more complicated job correctly, instead of trying to get through on the shoestrings they are on right now.

[@VaporheadATC]

Tax codes need to be overhauled. This sounds like those local tax collectors who will seize your house, then sell it for not paying a $4 tax bill. They will then keep all the equity that you had.

[@mr_ice117]

Still annoying that when the government screws up, it’s our job to fix it

[@mr.grotto]

I don't blame the lawyer or the owner, if your government shuts everything down it's on them to wait.

[@michaelholder3933]

This is another reason the IRS should be abolished.

[@SPYSpreads]

Oh the IRS never disappoint 😂😂😂

[@johnaiken9615]

Defund and get rid of the IRS, flat Federal Sales tax only no exemption

[@183-aD]

The IRS is very inefficient. You call to solve a problem, and they transfer you. You can spend day after day trying to solve something. They need to assign tax payers to representatives that can get issues resolved. They need to change how they charge the late fees as well. By the time you get a letter from them can be months or years. If they were fair and more efficient, people would pay and get their tax issues resolved. The IRS and tax code need to be overhauled or abolished.

[@DiscoCatsMeow]

Lol. I bet the lawyer paid it after the news got involved because he didnt want people digging into the sellers.

[@queenbee4350]

Bingo! Russian Nationals trying to off load property they own in the US. I have questions. I know a lot of foreign nationals do this but most of them are using real estate to park money. They don't really live in these properties. The seller's attorney should have just paid the $30,000 fine when the buyer first brought it to his attention.

[@Meditations2024]

Old man with the passport bride didn't do his due diligence. This why why you involve a title company who handles these sorts of things. For $500 you could have saved $30k.

[@ppgwhereeverett4412]

I AM NOT responsible for the Debts of others !! No matter WHAT the IRS says !!

[@m.bustock5265]

The listing agent should have provided a FIRPTA from sellers…and the buyers agent should have looked for it. Also, escrow has a long questionnaire for sellers and buyers to fill out that asks ALLLLL THE PERTINENT QUESTIONS! Each agent has liability insurance called “errors and omissions” that is paid per transaction. I’m glad the sellers paid, but there was incompetence all around ( not the buyers).

[@medusaskull9625]

The government with all the power, they always choose to go after the weak. That’s why regardless whether you are a democrat or a republican, you want small government. Big government doesn’t help you, they only create more burden for the people that they represent. Small government is necessary to maintain civil discourse and border defense.

[@bekind5738]

Wonder what the Attorney's PPP loan was????

[@sharonevans1257]

The irs is unforgiving! Something isn't right!!!

[@TwilightRage2099]

How odious and backwards. When did we aspire to be just like England again? ~ I say this because many of their laws are backwards and if I didn't know this was happening here, I would have automatically thought it was happening in the UK.

[@BG-mr5xv]

No, the rule is the Seller must withhold. Brians attorney should have been in charge.

[@chrisgunsandguitars1403]

The IRS is a private corporation based out of Puerto Rico. It’s no more federal than Federal Express.

[@DarkKnightBruce]

😮

[@AlvaBarr]

its a private collection agency for the fed reserve bank, also privately owned. Legalized theft by our gov

[@Pisti846]

Crooked Government.

[@carla68]

Your title company let you down. Mine kept 50k in escrow until the seller had filed this form. Your title company or title insurance should pay this fine since they messed up the job. File a claim!

[@neilkurzman4907]

You’re assuming it’s required that the title company actually do that for you in every state

[@carla68]

@@neilkurzman4907 That's true. My state didn't require attorneys for home sales, so the title company had to handle everything. At least this guy's attorney finally did make it right.

[@Rich-lu6pd]

Brian is a Player with the young wife!!!!

[@romad357]

The IRS should be abolished with all IRS personnel stripped of any retirement benefits and banned from any government service.

[@MarcusPineda-u8l]

Perfect house for your son ???

[@charlespiper9291]

They know hard working citizens will pay and fear the confiscation of their home.

[@deerhunter7482]

Buy nothing ever without title insurance,never ever !

[@DarkKnightBruce]

it's only like a few hundred bucks, right?

[@GrandmaBirdy]

Ask for a first time abatement! It’s a rebate for any taxpayer that has no prior assessment against them. I qualified many taxpayers that had been penalized by late fees. I did briefly work in this department & it’s not well defined & managed poorly. In place or fighting “it’s not my fee” (which we know it’s not), approach it from a legal standpoint. The house received the penalty due to attorney deadline missed! Also, this is a big important factor. For a few years during Covid the IRS did not give penalties or delayed them for an extended period of months. Also, this attorney needs a little reminder that this should have been resolved quickly so slap a 45k lawsuit against them (you will win…will be settled out of court). 30k for you..15k for freaking attorney (your attorney) plus attorney that didn’t pay should also be fined 30k to pay IRS. This attorney could have responded & resolved all this situation. The original foreign homeowner files a simple form and receives their tax back from this taxation paid if prudent.

[@gtccold]

We need a FREE IRS dispute built into our system.

[@Psalm1188]

IRS employees are over a billion dollars behind in their own taxes…complete hypocrites.

[@donaldjohnson-e8f]

The lawyer only figured out he was going to lose more future business than the $30k. This is the closest thing to morality or ethics a lawyer can find when they search deep within themselves, so I guess we have to take it.

[@stevereddy9515]

They can sue the lawyer after paying IRS .

[@lukebogacik2793]

Glad he kept his home,,,, 🙏🏻

[@wickedpawn5437]

The tax for foreign sellers should be 50%. Look at what happened in Canada: Most of the Toronto real estate is owned by rich Chinese people offshoring their money, buying and selling properties without government control. We couldn't even afford a tent. We ended up leaving the country.

[@DarkKnightBruce]

Indian Nationals doing that in America.

[@uncoveredtruth2088]

And Jewish nationals

[@DarkKnightBruce]

Sue him. Sue the lawyer. They're not immune from suit.

[@aaronfreeman5264]

Doesn't sound like the IRS has standing. It's the attorney that is liable.

[@DarkKnightBruce]

1+2=3. 1+IRS=ERROR. 🥲

[@utubewillyman]

I've never understood the notion that property can owe money. Last owner didn't pay his water bill, so you're saying it's my responsibility? Me, who always pays my bills on time?

[@stephenabbott7259]

Of course the word Russian is part of this mix.

[@piu3685]

The IRS needs to be deleted. Tariffs baby!

[@michaelopp5389]

The law was written by congress, not the IRS employees.

[@cboyce7617]

The IRS did this to me too! My ex and I filed jointly, he had a sole proprietorship company that he owed outstanding taxes before our divorce was finalized. I had nothing to do with his company. The IRS came to me for $250k tax bill stating that I had wages that they could garnish because my ex worked for himself so they deemed this as unemployed. It turned into over a decade battle with them

[@mugenjin205]

I can tell you exactly what happened the lawyer chose to file late he was probably thinking he could get away with it because of COVID while he went out and had fun used the money and had to wait for money to come in from another client for him to use that money to pay what Brian owed as well as the additional 75k

[@spacebatstuckonearth8888]

800 billion dollar missing from pentagon 😂

[@m.bustock5265]

The listing agent should have provided a FIRPTA from sellers…and the buyers agent should have looked for it. Also, escrow has a long questionnaire fir sellers and buyers to fill out that asks ALLLLL THE PERTINENT QUESTIONS! Each agent has liability insurance called “errors and omissions” that is paid per transaction. Im glad the sellers paid, but there was incompetence all around ( not the buyers).

[@mateofernando5066]

This is also the same power the IRS has to do the same thing if the landlord is a non-resident and they don't remit taxes on their rental income. They request the tenant to withhold the taxes from the rent. Otherwise they go after the tenant because it's easier than putting a lien on the house? Go figure. Government bureaucracy never makes sense? 🤔🤔🤔

[@tonymouannes]

That sounds unconstitutional to me. It's an illegal taking. It's probably that it doesn't happen often enough and the amounts aren't big enough for anyone to go through with a lawsuit that would probably need to get all the way to the US Supreme Court.

[@whatmeworrynotoday]

That's extremely disturbing

[@caddyshack68]

DOGE, the irs is a perfect agency that deserves an audit. Lolz

[@arneheins7716]

Congress made the rules, not the IRS. But you’re right, DOGE will certainly attack the IRS so that the uber-rich won’t have to pay any taxes at all.

[@ddb0831]

That IRS rule is silly. Makes no common sense whatsoever.

[@scottburgle4889]

IRS sent me a notice that I messed up my taxes last year. 34 cents. They sent this on a Friday. On Monday I received a letter that stated I owed $10.00 due to late fees and interest. Meanwhile I sent the check for $1 on Saturday. Never heard anything back so I can only hope it has been resolved. But for some reason I’m guessing in 30 years I’ll have a claim against me for $150,000. They are crooked ..

[@mysteryyyyyy]

name and shame that attorney.

[@solandri69]

I think people are missing the bigger issue here. How does a $79,000 payment made 9 months late turn into a $30,176.85 fine in just 4 years? If you figure they charged an 8% interest rate on the $79k for the 9 months it was late, that would've been $4694 in unpaid interest. Even if you say the fines doubled it to $9k owed, for it to grow to $30,176.85 in just 4 years is over a 35% annual interest rate. Which is extortionate, and I believe so high as to be illegal for private lenders.

[@mrbadguy4929]

This is a perfect house...for her son!!!😂

[@EyeSeeThruYou]

The real considerations here are the US attorney (mis)handling affairs of foreign nationals (should be disbarred and prosecuted for fraud), and the poorly written legislation which disallows US agencies with jurisdiction from seizing assets of foreign nationals who attempt to evade taxes and fees they legitimately owe. If we work on tightening up _those_ issues, it gives agencies like the IRS tools to pursue payment from the _appropriate parties._

[@shaggydawg5419]

Thank you US government for making it possible for foreign investors to get rich and make your citizens pay for it.

[@solskengroupllp2758]

Abolish the IRS. Tariffs and Sales Tax instead. Reduce government smaller and smaller. Don't agree? Go to the county buildings and look at the cars brands in the parking lot. Civil SERVANTS don't need unions.

[@JP-gc5in]

A worst fine can happen if you buy a property on a short sale from a foreign national and he skips paying the IRS. The IRS treats a bank loss from a short sale as a sellers gain. The seller can actually loose money on the transaction but the IRS treats the bank loss as his gain and wants taxes on this. In escrow you have to file a federal FIRPA form for IRS and a state version of form for this gain. The form has the seller put his social security number on the forms and say he’s not a foreign national. If the foreign national does not pay the IRS and state taxes on their gain then the IRS comes to you looking if these forms were filed in escrow. If there were no forms filed then both the IRS and state makes the buyer pay the sellers taxes and late fees on the sellers gain. This almost happened to me for $120k. Buyer beware. I’m not a lawyer- no legal advice is being given.

[@JimmyCrackCorn-c3q]

A government for the people by the people. Doesn't seem like it. The $79,000 was paid, the end leave the guy alone.

[@TWO515TY]

After saying that the sellers were from Russia the first time, couldn't they just have been referred to as the sellers instead?

[@joebloe4374]

Note to self Never own a home in usa For reasons like this And you dont even own it Dont pay property taxes for 3 years and see who owns it

[@greylatern]

I would like everyone to understand, if the IRS had the staffing, ie budget. They would have the ability to go after the right people in cases like this. Im sure most of us have been in a dimilar situation at work were the company went for a quick fix because of lack of manpower or money.

[@Splexsychiick]

He isnt responsible for this bill. It has nothing to do with the buyer. This is crazy. Change the law. Who knows how many others had or have the same head ache?

[@user-ct1lf3hf1v]

THIS HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY WE WERE BEYOND STRESSED OUT!

[@marisol033]

i can only imagine..lesson learned...when making a big purchase...do a lot of research into what could go wrong....so much work

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

This is why the IRS needs to go along with all the other extra-judicial agencies in the Federal government.

[@jerrodyeomans464]

Criminals do things like this, not government agencies.

[@DarkKnightBruce]

*IRS enters the chat*

[@rongendron8705]

Does the foreign purchase tax also apply to buying a home from a Canadian? There's a lot of them, owning 'second' homes, especially in Florida!

[@carefulconsumer8682]

I thought foreigners had to pay 30% when they sold their USA property? Thanks.

[@Martin-og9zg]

And other countries citizens are responsible for filing their taxes as employers report employee earnings.... Umm, employers do that here too so requiring U.S. citizens to file taxe is a means of fraud by forcing citizens to pay another tax for services by tax filing companies.

[@cirene9590]

Things need to change at IRS just because Congress passed an unfair "law".

[@alexcanoa26]

sugar daddy problems 🤣🤣

[@douglei4413]

I think it shoud to change into the buyer paying all the taxes. Just like the buyer pays the tax on all merchandise.

[@edwinstar100]

I think perhaps, the lawyer should have been on top of this regardless, its amazing to me how often they accept no responsibility. Their job is to inform and help us avoid these situations; or state clearly there could be complications as we have in this case. I am sure we will see more of this bullying, I guess be on top of rules and documentation.

[@bravelittleroomba]

They just technically returned land to the US. Shouldn't that get them a credit?

[@SoCalBrian]

Shit, how old is the wife, she looks like she could be his daughter’s age.

[@brucestiles6477]

I'm guessing that the attorney was acting as the escrow agent. The money was withheld at the time of sale, and was supposed to have been transferred to the IRS immediately.

[@petertimmins6657]

The fee, and therefore the fine, are attached to the sellers, not the property.

[@RicoSuave077]

I am surprised Errors & Omissions Insurance was not discussed here. Most attorneys and financial service providers such as insurance agents, accountants, etc. carry this insurance. I would have filed a claim against the attorney's policy which should have covered his error, thus the name of the policy.

[@TheSpatulaCity]

Seems very unreasonable to seize assets for someone else's debt, that's a 4th amendment violation. I sure hope that DOGE and Trump take notice and fix this.

[@streetpharmacist]

That's your title companies fault, they should have held it at closing. And buyer is responsible, law is written that way