WTF Is Threshold Running?

[@runningchannel]

Have you ever done threshold running? Are you going to start now?

[@matthewsue4032]

I'll give it a go, something I need to try

[@LilMacXC]

during High School Track and XC I do

[@tomb2289]

Going to give it a go now, very interesting 👍

[@menjackim]

twice a week in winter base, once a week in season, most of trainings are 20x400m (30s rest), 8x1km (1min rest), 4x2km (2min rest)

[@maxit7177]

@@menjackim Active or passive recovery? From the magnitude of recovery I deduct passively. For jobs around the threshold I consider more productive active recoveries perhaps even longer. Different is for repeated at vam or in any case aimed at improving the vo2 max

[@markchurch524]

If Sarah had a video about how to tie your shoes for a run, I'd watch that one too!

[@liamroche1473]

If anyone needs convincing that less intense sessions can be effective too (at lower risk, I believe), a certain Jakob Ingebrigtsen does his threshold sessions at about 85% of his 5k pace and does intervals of 6 and 3 minutes with 2 to 1 minute recoveries. Low risk of injury, reliable training stimulus. For us runners with less super-human pace, a larger percentage of 5k pace could be appropriate (because our 5k pace is closer to our hour pace).

[@Eddie-Spaghetti]

Absolute natural at this presenting stuff Sarah. Great video as always 👍😀

[@John-tn4qd]

I recommend that you do a video showing the accuracy of a Garmin lactate threshold test versus a lab based test.

[@snuffbox2006]

finally some clear, concise definitions! very informative.

[@lucie3788]

Loved the graphics you used! It made it really clear and easy to follow! Thanks! :)

[@runningchannel]

Glad you liked them Lucie!

[@thomasbeasley3271]

Extra note: the sessions sarah listed at the end are pretty intense with only 1 min recover so maybe increase to 90s or 2mins first 👍👟

[@damianor6886]

If you need more than a 60 seconds rest you’re probably running too fast, you could possibly go to 90 seconds rests. Those rests you suggest are for an interval speed sessions, threshold running is not interval training.

[@Trailrunner1978]

Dont need more rest than 1 min usually. Its about getting the neuromuscular relaxation between sets. Advice from Marius Bakken one of the first pro runners in Norway who used the "Norwegian treshold model" inspiring Ingebrigtsen. Using longer breaks would be more suited for harder efforts , like 10/5 K pace 1 K repeats, etc, which is above treshold.

[@fudbeer1]

A word of caution if you want to avoid injury and get stronger slow/easy runs should form the vast majority of your training.Threshold and speed work should be no more than 20% of your training and less if you are building your base.(In my opinion.)

[@garfeld625]

I appreciate the heads up. And I do not mean this rudely but with conflicting information it helps to know. Do you say this from a place of experience or as a trainer?

[@antonwestling]

@@garfeld625it’s a fact my friend

[@JoutarouKuujou1]

@@garfeld625 Look up 80/20 training

[@davidrosenthal5795]

@@JoutarouKuujou1look it up on KZbin? 😂

[@johnconn3054]

If you want to be able to run long distances comfortably but never compete with quality athletes, train all your runs slow. You’ll progress well this way. If you want to be fast and achieve athletic times, push the boat baby.

[@raoufannab]

Awesome work guys, one thing though I would suggest is for these explainers videos to be done in the studio with simpler and slower explanation for beginners like me and many others. There's so many things I wish to understand thoroughly and it's bit distracting in this format honestly. Thanks a lot again

[@chrisvanbuggenum871]

I don't understand how a pace that is all out for 30 minutes could possibly by something that you can sustain up to 60 minutes as stated. 20 - 30 minutes yes.

[@yayz9442]

60 minutes for elite runners. the average joe 15-40 minutes max. no regular person is holding their actual threshold pace for 60 minutes unless they're a phenom

[@math001]

I was trying to wrap my head around this for some few hours now. I guess it’s because it’s your “average” pace/HR. You will have an HR ramp up from 10 mins up to 30 mins. The one you get around the 30 min mark would most likely be close to your max HR which is indeed impossible to survive for 1 hour but the average might be doable.

[@bartb217]

Very informative video, great job. Tonight I have a threshold session with the club: 3 times 4k with 2 minutes recovery jogging. Threshold pace is usually between 10k and half marathon race pace. For most people I think it is 15k race pace. I race 10K and 5K races (just) faster than threshold pace.

[@runningchannel]

Thanks Bart 😁 How long have you been doing threshold sessions?

[@bartb217]

@@runningchannel Since I joined my athletics club. I think it is a standard (weekly) session for all the groups that like to race, improve their PB's and are capable of doing those sessions without risk of injury. Like said in the video: it is a great session for huge improvements with a relative low risk of injuries and little to no (muscle)pain the next day.

[@ABucc]

My problem is that I do more threshold runs than I should be doing in my training. I have the tendency to always start out at a faster pace because I'm to concerned about my split times. I thought it will help improve my split times, but instead it remains the same. I purchased myself a Garmin heart monitor and now I'm going to concentrate on MAF running so I could actually build up my pace times gradually and it will eventually help me improve my final overall marathon times.

[@DonGivani]

Garmin watches can determine your threshold

[@liamroche1473]

I sympathise. It is more difficult to avoid running fast too much than it is to run fast! MAF is the other extreme, but it has the benefit of simplicity, being quite enjoyable and works quite well (if you get the volume right, I suspect).

[@thepsychologist8159]

This is why I bought a commercial treadmill - one of the best investments I've ever made. On my easy-pace days I would either go out too fast or speed up during the run. Now, I do my easy-pace runs on the treadmill, set my pace, listen to some tunes and I don't have to stress about going any faster than I should. However, the treadmill is also great for doing progressive runs (great for running negative splits) and even strides sessions (especially on an incline).

[@cliodhnamalone7493]

this went over my head unfortunatelt lol, but well presented video x

[@wowsa0]

If threshold pace is a pace you can hold for 60 minutes, why should it be the pace you run in the last 20 minutes of a 30 minute time-trial? Shouldn't a 30 minute time-trial pace be faster than threshold pace?

[@mariuuma]

I just love Sarah's charisma!

[@bmp713]

Finally someone admitting you need to run FASTER to run faster, not this "run slower to get faster" nonsense. If running faster is too difficult for you then you need to build more muscle not go slower.

[@bigboxerable]

Yeah, if one more Instagrammer tells me I need to run slower to get faster, my IPad is going out the window.

[@twold4this]

Really enjoyed that. I've learned a lot. To my shame I new little or nothing about this.... actually what I *new* was nonsense!

What does "tempo run" actually mean? Nothing at all? Just an up-tempo run? Something faster than purely aerobic workout? Could you do a video about tempo run?

[@irisr4536]

I did a Garmin watch guided threshold test run today. It was quite tough towards the end, lol! Unfortunately, no threshold detected. I now know it’s likely to do with the fact I ran on an indoor track. I did use a Stryd foot pod. My watch does automatic threshold recognition and apparently you get the same numbers from that test. My training schedule includes threshold running, by the way. The threshold detected by my watch is probably just a tiny bit slower than I can run for 60 minutes (on a good day in close to perfect conditions).

[@goodyeoman4534]

For me, Garmin is inaccurate for Zone predictions. Mine tells me I'm in Zone 5 when doing a 19:58 Parkrun. It's because it uses the dodgy 220 - age formular for HR and then factors that in to thresholds and zones.

[@tombe2189]

I'm actually a little confused by some of what you said: First: you mention that pro athletes do these most of the time. From what I know from videos and literature is that -especially in running - most of the training is easy running. Maybe you only refer to the workout parts of the training schedule which would be more reasonable from my experience. Second: You explain that the difference between Tempo and threshold runs is that threshold is characterised by being below that threshold. But your training examples then are explained at threshold and the first one basically being the classical 20min Tempo run. Maybe I'm a little picky here. Regardless of these "issues": Keep up the great work. Your channel was one of the biggest influences and help for my running over the last year's and always motivates me to keep running :)

[@janosik4984]

Perfect explanation 🏆

[@InkAndSmudge]

Super interesting! Loved this one!

[@capeflatterytrail]

Interesting. Of all the types of training runs you could do, how would you rank them? Mine would be Sprint Intervals, Anaerobic, Recovery, VO2 Max, Tempo, Threshold. For some reason, the Threshold is always the most taxing for me.

[@txnerd940]

This is the best explanation I have heard for lactate threshold running!

[@martinengelbrecht5384]

Once a week at the parkrun! Little stiff the next day! Around a heart rate of 171 at 59 years old with a maximum heart rate of 189. Threshold heart rate is kilometer 2, 3, 4 and 5 of a 5 k race. There is more pressure at the parkrun to go flat out, no way am I going to go flat out when alone! No glory! No prize. No record!

[@liamroche1473]

Amazing MHR for your age! Mine is only 164.

[@DonGivani]

Real good Martin !!!!

[@dangabhi]

The all-out time trial to figure out lactate threshold is a bit confusing to me. How would I 'know' what pace I can hold for an all-out 30 minutes? If I 'knew' what this pace was, wouldn't I already know my threshold? And if I don't, I am bound to either start faster and slow down significantly later or find out that I had plenty of reserves at the end of it all. I wonder if the thing is to keep doing time trials repeatedly with successively higher targets till one 'fails'. Comments?

[@martinengelbrecht5384]

Excellent point! As otherwise one would sprint and then stop after 400 m. I think the threshold point is where running faster is inefficient and your heart rate is climbing faster than your pace.

[@liamroche1473]

Your estimate of it will improve as later tests are informed by previous ones. Another way is to infer it from your best race over a distance as near as possible (10k or even 5k can be used, with a suitable percentage adjustment - I tend to use the formula TIME = k * DISTANCE^1.07, which is pretty good from mile to half marathon. k is unique to you, based on your best race. :) That "^" means "raise to the power", in case it isn't clear.

[@04004]

Just base it off 1 hour race pace, so somewhere between 10k and half marathon effort for most people. Otherwise you can plug a recent race time into one of those online calculators and it will give you your threshold pace.

[@liamroche1473]

@@04004 Yes. My formula is one that they may use. It wouldn't be much different anyhow.

[@lxrose]

Even if you run faster in the first part of your test run, the average pace will be close to your lactate threshold pace, if you try your best.

[@joecordingley7071]

If threshold pace is meant to be the fastest pace I can do over 30 minutes, how am I meant to do a 45 minute threshold run?

[@DJChipsandGarlic]

its like the finish line at parkrun

[@nath9091]

I got a Garmin for Christmas and weirdly as a 32M who's not particularly good at running (Maybe 26 min 5k fitness currently) my heart rate jumps from rest of 65bpm to 170-low 180s within about a minute and I can sustain this for over 20 minutes without feeling horrendous. My watch is really confused that I can have runs where the majority of time I'm in Zone 5 and not die. Makes doing HR zones really difficult as keeping below 170bpm requires walking every few minutes to get it down

[@bartb217]

Do you use a chest strap to measure heartrate? Or do you use the wrist "light" to measure heartrate? The wrist "light" can be very inaccurate compared to the chest strap (for me sometimes even 15 beats higher than my chest strap). The watch has to be quite tight on your wrist and the sensors on the chest strap has to be a little moist to work properly.

[@livewire1957239]

Sounds like you’re assuming your max heart rate is 220 minus your age or 188 for you. It might be that it’s higher than that for you which means that what your watch is calling zone 5 now is actually zone 4 or even 3. Remember everyone is unique, the 220 - age formula is just an average. Try setting max heart rate to 195 or even 200 and see if the heart rate zones make more sense that way i.e. zone 2 you can speak in full sentences, zone 3/4 in short spurts, zone 5 out of breath in under 60s.

[@Jay-sd9ye]

My Garmin did the same. A old man pace my heart rate is 140 and running at 8min or faster pace, which I do a lot, my watch just kept saying every run was zone 5. So every run according to Garmin, is a zone 5 run. I believe Garmin allows us to modify the heart rate zones. So they will start showing up as zone 4.

[@martinengelbrecht5384]

Suggestion for a show, estimate threshold pace and heart rate (average Joe Soap method) and then laboratory test it.

[@runningchannel]

Great suggestion Martin thanks! Is there anything else you'd like to see us take on? 😁

[@martinengelbrecht5384]

@@runningchannel thinking aloud take on five runners over two months and show what they can do to improve their times, like your starting 45 minutes to 23 minutes for 5 k. More like a workshop format! One could have a weekly clock in with them. Old, young, thin, not thin, male and female, semi professional and beginner.

[@AlioH89]

Tbh this explanation has gone over my head. Thankfully for the level of running I do I dont think it's important for me to know this level of detail 😅

[@silvermandavid]

Am I correct that the threshold between aerobic and anaerobic running is when you are at the point when you start to feel the burning in your legs and that the burning is actually the accumulation of lactate in your muscles that your body cannot clear away? So, a little bit less intense, the body can clear away the lactate and the burning subsides; while a little bit more intense, more lactate and more burning?

[@DonGivani]

Sort like , yes. For me it is the 10 k tempo. Also what you can run at the exactly the same tempo for an hour. A 5k is full speed with lots of lactate

[@math001]

What about HR Zones based on the Lactate Threshold HR? My zone 2‘s upper end went to 163bpm after doing the test in this video and using my average HR. I know people’s bodies are different but isn’t that a bit too high for an easy run? When using Heart Rate Reserve formula zone 2 only goes up to 156bpm which is similar to what lots of runners have. Although an easy run is more of a feeling, I still think there’s value in setting more accurate zones.

[@murshizimahadzir8459]

Great info

[@trrc9276]

Threshold running i guess is the same as zone 4 running?

[@cristobal.palmero4919]

👍

[@jbosseur]

Nice Video, Threshold pace 20 to 60 min that seems like a large spectrum, I always use 60 min. Now I always have this doubt, should i run at Threshold pace or heatrate. If run at treshold pace my hearate goes over the treshold heartate, but I can sustain that pace for 1 hour..... I useusally train ate heartrate so normally I use that.

[@PokeNerdJr]

This is scary, was just talking to my coach about this this morning, because done a threshold tempo run by heart rate and it felt like an easy run even though my heart rate was higher than i usually run with

[@runningchannel]

Did you enjoy the session?

[@PokeNerdJr]

@@runningchannel was a good session enjoyed it just was unsure if i was doing it right either i was having the best run so far or i wasnt pushing

[@Spartan117FS]

I don't get it: - Do a 30 minute time trial at max 100% effort - Your treshold pace/hr will be the pace/hr you sustained at the last 20 minutes of that trial - Then you say; "Threshold running is: sustaining the pace for up to 60 minutes". Ummm... WHAT? If you did a 30 minute trial maxed out, surely you can't run the same pace for a full 60 minutes.

[@FollowMeCKT]

Tks

[@Tunkert]

"30 minutes all out" But that's basically what I'm training for. (I wanna finish 8 km in 34 min). Is it still viable for me to do a 30 min all out as training? So far I've been doing either longer easy runs (10-12 km) or intervals

[@1987michou]

I saw a mistake in the video. Not sure if I run a 10k in 40 minutes, I am still in aerobic zone. 10k pace is faster than threshold and it is an anaerobic effort.

[@runningchannel]

Where abouts did you see a mistake?

[@1987michou]

at 0:58@@runningchannel

[@yonatan1myers]

One corection. Running above your LT is not an anearobic efort, e.g. a 5 or 10K PB would typically pe run above ones threshold, bose are airobic. You can not sustain anairobic efort for more than 3 or 4 minutes

[@DmitryRudoy]

If I know my 5k, 10k and half times, can I derive the threshold pace from them?

[@DonGivani]

Almost similar to 10k ,maybe slightly slower. Just try an hour run at 10k speed

[@Jay-sd9ye]

My watch says almost every run I'm doing is a threshold run...8min a mile pace. Which I do every time.

[@bjelar]

Last 20 min of an all out 30 min effort? You mean 97% of max HR? I thought the pace you can hold for 60 min was very close to threshold pace... EDIT: Ok later in the video you say 60 min. Still have no idea how that's the same as the last 20 min of an all out 30 min effort.

[@danielhooley]

To ascertain your lactate threshold you must complete a session of at least thirty minutes. With your heart rate increasing from a relaxed state to one of a working rate during the 10 minute warm up, the variation in your heart rate readings will be wide. Therefore to determine a consistent and reliable lactate threshold reading only the last 20 minutes are used. Once you have determined your lactate threshold, you can then use this to understand how hard you’re able to run for up to 60 minutes. Runs longer than 60 minutes will theoretically require you to reduce your running speed as your body will otherwise produce too much lactic acid.

[@lxrose]

How did you come up with 97% of your max HR?

[@markmarco3347]

So do you mean that blu Aerobic paragraph is related to Zone 2 HR?

[@Mary-ph3jf]

you say that you go all out during your 30min threshold run to know at the end what your media heart rate during the last 20min was. But isn’t all out already anaerobic/ race pace ?

[@Soupape50]

Thanks! Could you please do a video about the MAF method? Thanks a lot :)

[@user3.1112]

Paaneorobic pace❤❤❤

[@scottmaddow7879]

I find there is so little difference between tempo and Threshold runs that they are interchangeable day to day. That is, on a heavy week a tempo effort puts me in threshold or a light week a threshold feels like a tempo. I run 2 marathons a year and find the Threshold is one of my favorite workouts. It let's me know about where I am in my program progress. If I am hitting race pace with less effort for longer I am doing well, If race pace is a struggle I need to do something.

[@AndreiDamian]

Hi Scott. What is your threshold pace/HR, and what is your marathon pace/HR? How much threshold running do you do in comparison with zone 2 training?

[@scottmaddow7879]

@@AndreiDamian My LTH is around 144BPM. I do a lot of running in the hills (West Virginia) so an actual training pace (Grade adjusted) is hard to pin down. I focus on HR unless I am on a dreadmill or track, this time of year trails are hard because all of the restroom facilities are shut down. But ideally, about 8-min - 8:30 min miles depending on course has me in that range. I target a 7:49-min pace for marathons (3:25) but have not got there yet. I need a 3:35 for Boston. My week is 2 days easy running, mileage varies. I have 2 long runs, one steady and one dynamic. I will have a tempo/threshold run 2 times a week, one longer, one shorter. And one day will be an ultra easy run, usually before a race which I substitute for a workout of comparable distance. On Garmin Training effect I like to have a couple blue, 3 or so green, 1 or 2 orange and a wildcard (could be anything like red for a race or long Threshold, or blue maybe green if my friends can sync up and we go on a fun jog and chat. On flat courses a 9:09 pace is a pretty easy run I can hold all day. I have yet to break 20 on a 5k. I used to use the USTAF programs but went back to Hal Higdon Advanced 2 marathon after an illness.

[@scottmaddow7879]

@@AndreiDamian race pace hr is between 144-152bpm. On a good day at peak my pace between 7:40 - 8:00 min miles hovers in there. I can't hold 155 for more than 15 or 16-miles. Which usually has me between 7:25 -7:35 min miles. 5 & 10k races I red line the whole way with 158 - 166bpm. When my HR hits 168 or above I start seeing spots and experience tunnel vision, I don't like that at all.

[@Draddar]

I always hated threshold runs 😅 Quite difficult and annoyingly long. At least with intervals you are done after 3-5 mins, but threshold just goes on and on ... and on. My usual threshold workout is 2x 15-20 mins with up to 5 min break between or just 1x in the offseason. Tip of the day: get a faster friend to accompany you on these runs, you'll thank me later.

[@DonGivani]

You can also run 1 km/h slower than your lactate threshold

[@thepsychologist8159]

Either that, or buy a commercial treadmill like I did. These things are brilliant. Like a personal trainer (or even a friend who can run faster).

[@cristobal.palmero4919]

My LT is 85-90% of HRmax

[@Borntoberolled]

I am little bit confused. I started running 2 months ago. I did a 10k time trial a few days ago. My time was 54.27 min while my heart rate was 192bpm throughout the last 30min of the run. So following your video I could assume that this is my lactate threshold, however, my garmin tells me that my maximum heart rate is 192 and my Lactate threshold would be at 171bpm and a pace of 06:09 min/km. Which values should I consider for my future training? (Heart rate measurements were done with a chest strap).

[@Trailrunner1978]

A 10 K time trial is far above treshold pace and heart rate. In a time trial like that you would see your heart rate go from treshold (example 165-180) up to above treshold (for example 180-195) rate at the end of the timetrial. Your Garmin treshold heart rate seems very accurate. Example given, if 52 minutes all out, you had done a 10 K at treshold pace you would probably do it in about 54-58 minutes, depending on steady or progressive end of run. Treshold sessions should be comfortably hard, not all out. Although you could end treshold runs harder. Like doing the last 2 km above treshold.

[@keithmaynard2134]

That depends entirely on how long it takes to run a 10k. As he said, 54 minutes. For most people threshold is 40 to 60 minutes. Your take is based on a faster 10k time I would assume? Anyways he probably has a naturally high heartrate. You can't stay anaerobic for 30 minutes (he says pegged at 192 for last 30). His actual threshold is probably between those 2 numbers, maybe 185 or so

[@cristobal.palmero4919]

Do a max HR test

[@andyharshman]

Wtf means Where's The Fartlek

[@runningchannel]

😂😂😂

[@liamroche1473]

Watts. Threshold. Force. 😏

[@taylorplante99]

"It's super easy, just go all out for 30min" 😩

[@runningchannel]

😂 piece of cake right? 😅

[@mujibur......5744]

Threshold workout for 3 km?

[@bernhardneumueller]

actually 5k's are about 91% aerobic in elite runners

[@cristobal.palmero4919]

What's their HR during?

[@afshirinzadeh5682]

What are you using to to stabilize your video when running?

[@Jess-Rabbit]

I would guess its a gopro. They have stabilization included in all models these days

[@zochert57]

I thought lactate threshold was 2 mmol/l.

[@iberiksoderblom]

Actually its norm today, to work with two lactate thresholds, T1 and T2. This video is only covering T2.

[@adamhenley8295]

There’s a memorable episode of the Simpsons when Scully from the x files makes Homer run on the treadmill I’m pretty sure my running for 30 minutes would recreate this video 😉

[@matthewsue4032]

4th

[@muhamadaryanto3587]

First coment

[@jonplumb5516]

Another great video, just a point, please don't use WTF in the video title. You're better that that

[@jennysmith8835]

333rd like, 😇