The Politics of Operation Torch

[@georgecooksey8216]

Fantastic presentation and discussion. Learned quite a lot. Thank you Paul and Michael.

[@edl1973]

Love Mike. One of the best speakers.

[@philbosworth3789]

That was a good explanation from Michael about a very complicated situation. I can see why he deservedly has such a good reputation.

[@linnharamis1496]

Excellent program- thank you.👍

[@davidk7324]

Thank you Woody and Dr. Neiberg. Faithful members of the WW2TV community are truly fortunate. Often during WW2TV shows the guest(s) or Woody will say "it's complicated." I think most everything in war, including policy, is complicated and the historian's challenge is to effectively "explain what goes into making something complicated" rather than detailing minutiae. Superlative teaching professor Neiberg, you threaded the needle today.

[@lewistrott417]

I very much enjoy these academic discussions to go along with the military talks. Movies aren't made about these subjects, but they are the background information for the actual boots on the ground stories. Great presentation by Prof. Neilberg who works right up the road from my stomping grounds at Gettysburg.

[@davidlavigne207]

I am so glad I took the time to view this excellent discussion. Inviting Michael was a stroke of genius as he is such a knowledgeable person about the politics of Torch. I must say, Woody, that your channel helps transport many of your viewers like me, who may never have the chance to visit these remote sites, an opportunity to travel back in time and explore the past. I feel a debt of gratitude to you and so many of your guests, and viewers as well, for bringing us this opportunity for historical study and interaction. Thank you Sir!

[@WW2TV]

You are very welcome David

[@garymiller_85]

Fantastic. The politics of France and Vichy, is incredibly complex.

[@WW2TV]

Yes, and Michael helps make sense of it all

[@steventhompson399]

Great video. I remember Michael Neiburg from another talk on KZbin about the first world war I saw a while ago

[@morningstar9233]

Very enlightening. Knew Torch would be complicated. Thanks Paul and Dr.Neiburg for guiding us through an operation of which I for one knew only the broad strokes. The detail was fascinating and thought provoking.

[@catholicmilitantUSA]

When I was a teen I used to love watching the episode of "Why We Fight" called Divide and Conquer where the 1940 campaign was dealt with. Near the end I was puzzled because my DVD seemed to have been doctored when De Gaulle was mentioned, and there was another French general shaking his hand when this glitch occurred. Even as a child I suspected that there was something going on and it was doctored on purpose. So I went on KZbin and checked the version there. That version said "General de Gaulle AND THE FAMOUS GENERAL GIRAUD." Those words were missing from my DVD and I was immediately interested in the politics behind the story. And around 18 years later this video is the best discussion on the subject I have ever watched!

[@lookythat2]

What an excellent presentation!

[@scottgrimwood8868]

An outstanding show on the politics of North Africa. l really appreciated hearing that Ike would have learned from the political mess that was French North Africa on how to handle Operation Overlord.

[@TheVigilant109]

Excellent presentation by Michael. I learned a lot tonight

[@gerryconstant4914]

This last March my than high school grandson did a podcast on Operation Torch for his Advanced Placement WWII History Class. The podcast is called Tigers By The Fire & his school being in New Orleans he spend time at the National WWII Museum doing research. He is now a plebe at the US Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point NY. Give it a listen.

[@whos1st]

Best of luck and safe sailing to your grandson 👍

[@vcv6560]

Thank you for this discussion. It was the prelude to Torch that introduced me to these political considerations. I had been in Churchell in 2007, but only learned of Gen. Mark Clarks' mission in 2010 reading Atkinson's first volume. To read the French fired on and killed Americans set me on my heels. As for visiting Churchell...I was that close to history and hadn't realized the significance.

[@sailordude2094]

I like Vichy France history, thanks for an excellent history discussion! I really enjoyed it! There are many French made Vichy analysis shows on KZbin now It's interesting to hear from the French talking about their past. The first one I was able to watch was on DVD 15 years ago (now on YT) called The Eye Of Vichy (L'oeil de Vichy).

[@WW2TV]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@iankerridge5720]

Surely, the reason Ike was in charge of Overlord was how he managed the minefield of Torch so well? Also, to be fair to Charles de Gaulle, he was a genuine Hero de La Belle France in that he was a Patriotic Frenchman who wanted The Best for his Country.

[@WW2TV]

Yrs indeed

[@exharkhun5605]

I love that the moment Mark Clark does something you feel you have to give him some respect for, he looses his pants.

[@duwop544]

By the way, though CC is not *immediately* available on YT, I've seen it added after the live show. It can be useful.

[@philbosworth3789]

Now I’m not suggesting you do this Woody, but having watched the current (May 2023) @WW2TV series of episodes on Torch to Tunis along with many previous episodes from this channel on the same subject it occurred to me that if they were all fitted together there is more ‘airtime’ here on @WW2TV covering just the Torch/Morocco/Algeria/Tunisia actions than the entire content of the acclaimed ‘The World at War’ series which covered the whole timeframe of the war and every theatre of operations. All this, free of charge, or better for as much/little as you feel fit to contribute is fantastic value.

[@davidlavigne207]

I absolutely loved the World at War series as a young man Phil. I agree with you wholeheartedly that WW2TV is a fantastic resource! This venue has allowed those of us with like minds to explore the many facets of that war in a way that is unique. I may not make all the live chats, but I do enjoy the many comments made by you and others.

[@WW2TV]

Yes, and a few more patrons and members would be super

[@markodeen4105]

Fascinating!

[@patrickwentz8413]

Really good stuff straight out of Clauswitz.

[@billballbuster7186]

You keep hearing this from the Americans, but there was no way an American army could have landed in France in 1942. The US Army was only starting to expand from peacetime levels and there were no resources for the size of the invasion force required to be successful. The Vichy French were still angry over Mers el Kebir, but that was mainly due to an arrogant French Admiral Gensoul, who sacrificed his men for his pride.

[@WW2TV]

Yep no way at all, but it keeps coming up

[@billballbuster7186]

@@WW2TV It does make you wonder what the British Generals were thinking when they heard this nonsense

[@daverhoades5596]

There was no way in hell that the allies could have invaded France in 42.Not sure how many American divisions were in The UK at the time but I think it would have been a catastrophe.

[@billballbuster7186]

@@daverhoades5596 The Americans were so adamant, the Dieppe Raid was staged in part to shut them up.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@daverhoades5596 The Americans wanted to use 9 Allied divisions ( most of those being British, and a few US divisions) to land at Cherbourg on a narrow beachhead against 25 German divisions in France just to basically show Stalin that Britain could also sacrifice it's population to prove they were making a contribution to the war in Europe. Yep, it would've been a disaster.

[@jimplummer4879]

There could not have been any landings without all the background Political dealings and planning.

[@iankerridge5720]

Did anyone ever get on well with Charles de Gaulle?! except Charles de Gaulle?!

[@marks_sparks1]

General Louis Spears (British envoy) got on very well with de Gaulle.

[@daverhoades5596]

Good question,not really sure.

[@brunol-p_g8800]

Churchill got quite well with him and had developed a deep friendship with him, but as they both were stubborn with similar characters they wouldn’t keep their tongues in their pockets. They also had a common dislike of Roosevelt.

[@georgecooksey8216]

@@brunol-p_g8800 Churchill disliked Roosevelt???

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

Fortunately, they only had to deal with Darlan for about 6 weeks...he was assassinated on December 24.

[@WW2TV]

Which is exactly what we say

[@brunol-p_g8800]

“Had to deal” is a big thing to say, it the USA who got Darlan out of jail and appointed him.

[@jimplummer4879]

World War II as totally a World war.

[@Worldpeaceforeverremains]

We let you establish for a bit so you can build all that stuff that you built and then we kicked you out because you can't be trusted. Long live the king.

[@Falconing89]

How did the Jewish men, women, and children end up in Israel. Asking for a friend.

[@WW2TV]

I don't understand the question? Which group and when specifically?

[@Falconing89]

The Jewish people that were in Germany, at that time very few were in Israel@@WW2TV

[@WW2TV]

Well Israel didnt exist then, do you mean Palestine?

[@Falconing89]

Israel as a city did exist but not as a country, you know what im asking though how did they get to that place out of Germany without being killed. @@WW2TV

[@WW2TV]

There was Jerusalem in Palestine but not a city called Israel, but your question makes no sense. Jewish then was not a Nationality, so Jews could travel on passports, real or fake from various Countries. Plus just like today, people can be smuggled through borders or travel via ingenious routes, but most of Europe's Jews who were lucky enough to escape did not head for the Middle East which is why your question is odd - sorry

[@markrunnalls7215]

Very good indeed ,in places could see that it must have been a tense situation ,really great massive thanks .