Operation Barbarossa to the Siege of Leningrad

[@WW2TV]

I'm so proud to be able to attract guests like David. If you have enjoyed this show, please don't forget to click like, leave a comment for other viewers and if you have not done so already please SUSBSCRIBE so you don't miss our next streams. You can also become a member of this channel and support me financially here kzbin.info/door/UC1nmJGHmiKtlkpA6SJMeA. Links to any books discussed, WW2TV merchandise, our social media pages and other WW2TV shows to watch can all be found in the full KZbin description. Lastly, my own book Angels of Mercy is always available online - more info here www.ddayhistorian.com/angels-of-mercy.html

[@davidsabillon5182]

"the sheer tyranny of attrition" I love this line and sums up the folly of the German army invading the Soviet Union.

[@jeffclark7888]

Great job!

[@robertmclellan9666]

As someone who is borderline obsessed with the eastern front, I’m honestly glad to be alive now with all the new information that has been declassified information that has been released in just the past ten years…..it’s literally insane

[@sam8404]

@@250txc and the award for "most irrelevant comment in history" goes to...

[@Theiliteritesbian]

@@sam8404 thats not what irrelevant means

[@sam8404]

@@Theiliteritesbian well their comment was deleted so there's no way to know if I used it correctly or not.

[@whatthehell1338]

Totally agree with you.

[@jeffclark7888]

“Literally” insane. Certainly not.

[@standyl2268]

Just finished my 3rd time through this remarkable program, and am still in awe of Prof. Stahel's Eastern Front knowledge and understanding, and his unique, and convincing, perspective on the "War in the East."🎉

[@mrgabagoo580]

Mr Stahel deserves much credit for his humility. Listening to him is an education, yet he so believably says he hopes his book is not the last word, that his work is open to being challenged. A great historian, willing to engage and providing an impressive body of work, he deserves a lot of respect.

[@WW2TV]

Agreed

[@johanneduardschnorr3733]

Fantastic presentation! As a History Major undergrad in the US, circa ‘83-‘87, academics such as Stahel, Citino, Glanz, etc. are such a joy to read and listen to! NONE of this information was available to us in that era..it was Cold War era at it’s zenith..

[@sgitell]

Perfect comment. The historians you mention above have added so much to the discussion.

[@ianwalter62]

@@sgitell I have recently started re-reading the late Professor John Erickson's two books (Road to Stalingrad & Road to Berlin). I think he and Col. David Glantz were the first two western historians who gained access to some, but not all, of the Soviet archives in the 1990s. They together provide in overview (Erickson) and in detailed subject studies (Glantz & House) something akin to a truthful Soviet official history that was never written. Hopefully Woody can at some point do a myth-busting episode on the Kursk offensive, and point out that Hausser's corps at Prokhorovka had about two platoons of operational Pz VIA between them, and were largely still using the Panzer III. The Soviet formations likewise had a mass of T60 light tanks, and even a brigade mounted in LL Churchills to fill out their numbers.

[@alanbrener2718]

Excellent - David Stahel is a first class historian and presenter

[@kiowhatta1]

I’ve been obsessed with the Eastern Front for 25 years, and WW2 since I was a boy. Even 20 years ago there were only books and DVD’s available ( average quality ) and the books lacked any detail. Now it is finally getting the attention it deserves, however some areas remain understudied-like the Caucasus, The continuation war, the Rhzev salient, and other periods that are not highlighted by a major headline battle. There is still much to be uncovered and discussed.

[@timbrown1481]

Thank you David and Woody for expanding my almost non existent knowledge on the Eastern front. Up until now all I knew was Germany invade Russia, killed a lot of people, stalled out and got their butts kicked all the way back to Berlin. When I was stationed in Germany I met this old Army dude who invited me to his house where he pulled out his Iron Cross and a map of the eastern front and showed me his move across Russia, then started showing his retreat back to Germany. The guy hated Hitler and sadly my German was broken and he didn’t speak English but we got along just as well and he was able to communicate via the map his travels in the Eastern front. My landlord in college was a German soldier as well as was my landlord in Germany who was a 1st LT. in the Afrika Corp.

[@randyhavard6084]

The oil they were talking about washing The engine out is most likely for the engine air filtration system. Most of the older trucks used oil bath air filter instead of the paper elements we're use to today.

[@josephclever8163]

David Stahel’s book on Kiev is Excellent and bridges between the start of Barbarossa and Typhoon.

[@davidk7324]

Thank you Paul and Dr. Stahel for this compelling presentation. I appreciate the introductory point where you describe the mindset and assumptions of the German high command at the outset of Barbarossa. The breathtaking successes of 39-40 (plus German memory of WW1 eastern success, pre-war appeasement reflecting limited British appetite for war, and the USA's distaste for involvement in European conflicts) are critical contexts. Applying subsequent knowledge enjoyed by your audience is a bit like the Back to the Future 2 movie where the antagonist becomes wealthy betting on sports because he has a sports almanac and already knows the scores. Magnificent, appropriately detailed, and engaging work.

[@angelaschwenn9595]

I’m glad that I rewatched the show from the beginning. Very impressive! Now I have to decide which books to buy🤦🏽‍♀️.

[@adamwarne1807]

David Stahel has added dramatically both to my knowledge of this important front of the war....but to my already groaning book shelves! Bravo!

[@davidk6269]

I discovered the WW2TV channel because of this video, and I have subsequently subscribed. Thank you for this wonderful and informative discussion with David Stahel. David Stahel is my favorite historian for all things Eastern Front. His book are excellent, and his lectures are always very insightful. In this video presentation I greatly enjoyed the bits of insight that David interjects as asides, as they truly add color and help to make the staggeringly enormous Eastern Front campaign more relatable to the non-historian who has an interest in this titanic struggle.

[@darthcalanil5333]

Loving this excellent presentation. Stahel's works are an essential part of the modern understanding of the eastern front.

[@leefreeman2213]

Great lecture. Currently listening to David Stahel’s Operation Barbarossa. Such a brilliant book and shaking my head just listening to how badly prepared the German army was always likely to fail due to logistics, obsolete vehicles, poorly trained men and lack of vehicles and equipment! Love the show.

[@scottgrimwood8868]

Another outstanding WW2TV show! Professor Stahel presentation on launch of Operation Barbarosa is very detailed, giving a lot of excellent information. Anyone interested the the Eastern Front in World War 2 needs to watch this show.

[@zilkmusik7652]

Amazing presentation! David is a legend!

[@BK-uf6qr]

Excellent presentation. I love the maps and detail. Such a huge war to summarize in an hour was well done.

[@matthewleonard8954]

Great show. Great guest. Keep up the great work. Enjoy your channel very much

[@alandean3472]

Informative explanation of the failure of Barbarossa by David Stahel who is a very accomplished and erudite lecturer !

[@julianshepherd2038]

Fanaticism does not beat logistics

[@jamesdean1143]

Kudos for getting David Stahel.

[@Goodfelladh]

I’m a recent discoverer/subscriber to your channel and perfect timing as I’ve recently had an interest in the Eastern Front sparked. This was a great video and I have a number of Mr. Stahel’s books to be read!

[@PurpleCat9794]

This is second video of yours I've watched and I've learned so much from both. Thank you!!

[@georgewnewman3201]

Great show, again, Woody, learned a bit more about Kiev & Leningrad battles, didn't really realize the distance scale and also forces scale were so large

[@FilipDePreter]

Great detail, makes a few holes in a few myths. Can't wait for Leningrad.

[@dexterscott7824]

Your “Eastern Front” bookshelf could be huge just from David Glantz and David Stahel books alone!

[@donaldkepple4927]

I love glantz stalingrad trilogy and the companion book

[@maquismark5852]

This is very good and much appreciated 👍 Cheers mate!

[@secularist1]

Thanks for your work! I love that you have an appreciation of the historiography of the Eastern Front, and are keen to acknowledge and explore areas you've previously been ignorant of. Also love a David Stahel video! They're unfortunately few and far between.

[@thefozz976]

I can't get enough of your guest. He is fascinating. Have him on again please.

[@Thumpalumpacus]

Great presentation by Mr Stahel. Siegfried Kmappe in his memoirs addresses many of the same issues of being hosee-drawm artillery following the tanks. ETA: Also, John Erickson -- "Berlin to Stalingrad" and "Stalingrad to Berlin" are important on the operational and strategic levels.

[@roshantweerasinghe9866]

Thank you very much for this programme and information. Very useful knowledge. Good evening from Colombo Sri Lanka.

[@WW2TV]

So nice of you to leave a comment. Hello to you in Colombo

[@GeorgiosMichalopoulos]

Discovered this channel thanks to the Tooze interview. Truly fascinating stuff, keep up the great work!

[@WW2TV]

Welcome aboard Georgios

[@dmeadeirl]

Superb show. Glad I caught up on it. Would love to take one of David's classes!

[@styx4947]

I would say that the "will to victory" concept in the Army and in Hitler's mind came from the perception that Ludendorf " lost his nerves " at the end of ww1. Trying to defend himself from this accusation he coined the notorious "Stab in the back" legend

[@davidsabillon5182]

Stahel and Satino are my two favorite!

[@mjinnh2112]

Discussion of the historiography and rebalancing the total picture of the war might b enough. But THEN, all this incredible information and insight. There are so many tributaries and interpretations; just the whole idea of ambition and overcoming physical limits; this goes to the heart of common perceptions today about what it means to be "tough" and to be a "warrior". Great stuff. Thanks for all the work.

[@sharanbirbrijnath549]

Fabulous ….can’t wait for more ….well done !

[@WW2TV]

Thanks, I hope you will stay with us on WW2TV

[@BK-uf6qr]

Even when I watched the “old” history I always had a yearning for actual details, context etc. so glad this is finally being explored.

[@MontysRevenge928]

terrific guest TY!

[@thomasmadden8412]

Eastern Front week kick off was fantastic. The size, scale, distances, men and material is daunting. Just the tip of the iceberg into logistical complications of supporting an operation of such size. David really knows his stuff and would love to see him back for other topics, especially Leningrad.

[@kiowhatta1]

Excellent presentation by David Stahel. I’d love to see some analysis of why AGN: Didn’t/couldn’t reduce the Orienanbaum bridgehead; Why an additional army, and ideally a 5th panzer army wasn’t raised to ensure the objectives of linking up with the Finns, reducing the aforementioned bridgehead - and what happened to the big guns of 11th Army after the fall of Sevastopol? We’re told 11th army was relocated to AGN, or it was broken up and sent to various different sectors. The fate of the units of the 11th army and its famous commander, Von Manstein is vague and lost after the failure of Nordlicht. Perhaps a separate video could be done on the journey of the 11th army?

[@Piper44LMF]

Great show another set of books in my wish list. I've spent years reading about the Eastern front it is by far the largest of all the areas on land of the war. David's work helps to confirm some of the other works in my studies and the shear scale of the whole conflict. Equally as brutal as the pacific if not more.

[@jmccallion2394]

As i said with his talk for today on the retreat from Moscow, Woody is being Santa 2022 with any talk featuring the excellent Dr Stahel. He is a walking encyclopedia about the Osterfont! Im saving that talk for after the Holy Week services and shall look forward to listening on Easter Sunday with the choc eggs Pure Bliss!!!!

[@ivoferin8176]

Great guest mate! Ive read all stahel books! Brilliant researcher/author!!

[@WW2TV]

Awesome, thank you! He will be on again in April talking about the retreat from Moscow

[@AustinBunyard]

I have learned so much from you and tik history that no other historians have payed much attention to thank for the wealth of knowledge

[@johnvacher4225]

Currently watching the documentary series Adolf Hitler’s War. Dr David Stahel is one the experts on it. He is fantastic, so I had to track down who he is, and what hes done. Saw a couple of lectures on youtube that he gave to a US University via skype, then came here. I will be buying his books now. He is so engaging and knowledgeable. His enthusiasm draws me in.

[@WW2TV]

Yes he is brilliant. I hope you will stick around on WW2TV we have lots of guests every bit as good as David

[@marks_sparks1]

The importance of logistics is what I really took from this excellent discussion by David Stahel. Seeing it now is actually more relevant, in the context of the ongoing Ukrainian invasion by Russia. Understanding the terrain, and having the supply trains to keep an army going at full tilt is really fundamental. And any resistance by the Soviets, & any poor weather is just adding delay and ultimately casualties to their strict timetable. As the Wehrmacht never defeated the Red Army, then 1941 is one gigantic defeat going by their own operation directives. Kudos to Prof. Stahel for focusing on these directives which a lot of histories brush over and focus on the mass casualties and territorial losses the Red Army is suffering. Also amazed at the competing Wehrmacht leadership aims of those conducting the advance (Guderian & Panzer Groups vs Infantry Divs). Not a formula for strategic success. And the question of whether the Wehrmacht general staff dismissed studying Napoleon in 1812 is really interesting. I can see how they may have dismissed it as irrelevant given the Russian army then just retreated till making stands at Smolensk & Borodino, but it was relevant that the Russians then as in 1941, conducted a scorched earth policy and began formulating orders to attack French supply trains and depots in the rear. Napoleon apparently fretted endlessly over his logistics supply. Hitler seemingly didn't care. A fateful mistake.

[@morningstar9233]

Yes, when Prof Stahel explained that the German generals considered Napoleon's campaign was unrelatable to their own i could almost hear the Russian steppe and the Russian winter replying to these officers, "Oh, really?"

[@JRL6211]

TIK had a great graphic of an overlay of France on top of Russia,

[@styx4947]

That's a great insight about starting new operations in the middle of ongoing ones that have failed. They just don't want to say it outright. I like to say that the Wehrmacht had A.D.D. In ww2

[@sevenonthelineproductionsl7524]

53:57 In undergrad I researched some of the actions that were fought around Smolensk during the encirclement. Because of the scale of the action occurring on the Eastern Front ESPECIALLY in the opening months, the smaller scale actions occurring across the front are often overlooked. I unlearned a lot of my own biases towards the Red Army by looking at some of these smaller scale defensive actions, often fought without a set doctrine, and seeing the impact that those smaller fights had at scale as Barbarossa progressed.

[@jeffschnakenberg3848]

An amazing program!

[@wesb2823]

Brilliant presentation as always Paul! I just started studying the Eastern Front and this was a good primer to understanding the vastness of the campaign. I definitely want to read David's books now. I'm currently reading "War Without Garlands: Barbarossa 1941/42" by Robert Kershaw which is about the German perspective of the campaign. So far it is really interesting and informative.

[@antonferiozzi2642]

David is awesome!

[@deathmetaldrummer9368]

one of my favorite authors. Hope he comes back for another presentation

[@WW2TV]

David has done 4 or 5 shows on WW2TV, and yes he will be back

[@Laotzu819]

Great show

[@buonafortuna8928]

Brilliant. Great guest

[@michaelfleming6420]

Great Show

[@jimplummer4879]

Paul very slowly catching up on the shows. Exceptional all.

[@free_gold4467]

Excellent, thank you.

[@WW2TV]

You are welcome!

[@carstenjansing6373]

Great work

[@WW2TV]

Thanks

[@markrunnalls7215]

Interesting you mentioned the Einsatzgruppen, the most notorious was Einsatzgruppen A, headed by a Walter Stalecker...

[@icewaterslim7260]

This should be good. Another Historian that uses relatively newer sources unlocked in the post Soviet era to narrate battles erased from Soviet history thus absent from ours is COL (Ret) David M. Glantz. Like Richard.Frank's Asian - Pacific theater narrations he starts with the figures to give you chance to get your head around the scope of the Eastern Front war. Then he focuses on the parts absent so this promises to be more information to add to what I gleaned there.. Anyway I've been told by the KZbin powers that be that links in the comment section are a no-no so Giantz lecture goes partially by the title: "Soviet-German War, Myths and Realities" . . . Thanks for bringing these fascinating well researched guests to us.

[@Walkerwonderswhy]

fantastic!

[@kiowhatta1]

I read somewhere that after the failure of Barbarossa many German generals were frantically reading accounts from 1812. Also there are a number of hints that suggest German intelligence failed miserably. They didn’t detect the number of Soviet divisions ~500; they had no knowledge of the new medium tanks, T-34, KV series, etc. How much was ineptitude borne of arrogance, and how much was just poor intelligence gathering?

[@jimcase3097]

Very good 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@charlesmaeger6162]

Approximate distance from Berlin to Stalingrad is 1,500 miles.

[@model-man7802]

Check out "Kiev 1941" by David Stahl.Its an awsome book.

[@johnwright291]

90 percent of the fighting in ww2 took place on the eastern front. I think that Hitler was well aware that if Barbarossa took longer than 8 weeks, he would be in deep s..t. recently I saw a report that said that Hitler said a month after the campaign started that they had grossly underestimated the Russian army. It was Mussolini's misadventures in Greece that held up the start of Barbarossa. One needs to keep in mind that Hitler had hoped from the start to bring Britain in as an ally. One of Hitlers favorite and first comrades Phillip bouhler wrote a biography of Napoleon. So I think that was on Hitlers mind. Eric Hoepner was one of the leading conspirators of the july 20 plot.

[@meddy833]

Watching it for the 3rd or 4th time and I would like to add for anyone who may read this that the book Mr. Stahel mentioned he was writing is titled "Hitler's Panzer Generals". As with all of Mr. Stahel's books, it is excellent!

[@sleepygrumpy]

Does David Glantz still do interviews? I would love to hear him discuss the Second Battle of Kharkov, the Soviet offensive in the Spring of 1942

[@WW2TV]

Not really. He is a full time carer

[@cenccenc946]

excellent. so much more. hopefully someday we will get access to all the archives in Russia.

[@Fulcrum205]

Great presentation. It only reinforces the old line that "amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics". I would like to see how much logistics was part of German officer training. Even a cursory glance at the numbers says Barbarossa wasnt going to work

[@masr8875]

From this video it seems like the mass casualties of the Soviet POWs came from a lack of resources. But elsewhere I understood that it was actually the policy by the Germans to kill the POWs by deliberately starving them (the "Hunger plan"). Does anyone know to what extent this theory is correct?

[@WW2TV]

It depends where, both explanations have some truth

[@Chiller01]

Perusing older episodes. It was interesting that the academic said he hoped his textbook would be out of date in 5 years. I spent most of my life studying medical stuff. I was told as a student that the half life of medical knowledge is 5 years. I’m not certain if that’s accurate but it does describe the rate of progress in the field. I suspect the turnover of historical knowledge is a bit slower but any true expert hopes they’re advancing knowledge in their field but realizes progress will overtake their work in time.

[@bozo5632]

When's part two? I want more.

[@WW2TV]

David is coming back in April to talk about the retreat from Moscow

[@kiowhatta1]

Why do we say there was 3 army groups in the east when there was the AOK in Finland which was technically not as large but still tasked with the objectives of a major army group? I.E. the capture of Murmansk, then the Northern part of the fabled A-A line ( Arkhangelsk ) ?

[@jimplummer4879]

Paul and David I have watched that same channel here on KZbin myself.

[@morganhale3434]

I just did a quick search for the distance from Caen, France to Aachen, Germany and it was 587.6 km and I think from the then Polish border to Smolensk was about 550 to 600 km. During the breakout from Normandy in 1944 the Allied advanced stalled out in northern France and Belgium about 4 to 6 weeks after leaving Normandy, depending on which army you study. The road network was much better in France than the Soviet Union and the Allies put many more resources into their logistical train. Just food for thought on why the invasion of Russia was problematic at best.

[@timbrown1481]

What was the desertion rate if the Germans?

[@korbendallas5318]

4:55 "We really are at the beginning of your journey to understand the eastern front." - What a remarkable thing to say. This statement mirrors exactly the lack of awareness of anything non-anglosaxon in popular view you lamented a few minutes before: If it's not done by anglosaxon historians, it's not done at all.

[@WW2TV]

But this is an English language channel, so of course it is framed through the pov of western historians

[@korbendallas5318]

@@WW2TV You cannot "understand" something because research has to be translated? My opinion of anglosaxon historians is higher than this.

[@edsteadham4085]

Was the Germans gambit somewhat similar to Pickett's charge at Gettysburg writ large? Even if the confederates somehow made it across that field what would they do exhausted and out of ammo once they got there?

[@andrewblake2254]

For those interested i understand that the Germans were running a fleet of over 200 models of trucks. There were a lot of Opel 3 tonners and numbers of other German makes. Then there were all the captured English and French trucks; the requisitioned Polish, Czech and some Scandiniavian trucks. So you are a German truck driver out past Smolensk and your clutch burns out getting bogged on the bad roads.. Or a valve spring breaks. Or you do a fan belt. The chances of getting another one immediately are close to zero and if you can get one it will be months and the war has moved on. So that's the end of your truck. So apart from the rail difficulties, the whole idea of using this menagerie of trucks to supply the army over these atrocious roads is disastrous. Which apart from the actual fighting is one of the main reasons why the Germans never get really close to taking Moscow.

[@WW2TV]

Good point Andrew - thanks

[@briankorbelik2873]

So where was the attacking towards Leningrad stuff? We got plenty of AGC but where is AGN and say Schusselberg? (SP?)

[@WW2TV]

We didn't quite get to everything we hoped to, but David will be back

[@redjacc7581]

mind boggling stats O.o

[@MegaBloggs1]

why were the ngermans never able to interdict the moxcow to murmasnk railway

[@psbrayshaw]

Hi Paul, Are you based in East Sussex?

[@WW2TV]

Nope, Normandy. From Essex originally

[@michaelmulligan0]

Have tried to read Achtung Panzer it’s a difficult read

[@shulahamilton9025]

I think that the Dean of historians on WWII is Gerhard Weinberg.

[@WW2TV]

I think his work is important, but he's probably been overtaken by more modern scholars

[@timbrown1481]

42:45 Stonewall Jackson’s “foot cavalry” these guys ain’t.

[@joevespa3157]

Happy May day

[@timbrown1481]

1:12:10 “Yes sir yes sir three bags full”. Yes men ….

[@edsteadham4085]

Is it safe to say the Russian German clash is the greatest cataclysm in history?

[@WW2TV]

I reckon so, well it's the Soviet Union v the Third Reich, but yes

[@markrunnalls7215]

Eastern front, was just hideous, I say that because if you go beyond the mechanised clashes of both sides it was a racial conflict. Plus the Jewish situation, together with Hitlers plan to rid the land of Soviet civilians, ready for German resettlement.. Both Hitler and Stalin were as bad as each other, in many cases Stalin was worst.. Great to have these shows, flipping great Paul.

[@jeroenbons637]

Guderian was a professional opportunist. This man would sell his mother to anyone if he sees a profit for himself.

[@timbrown1481]

Logistics bit the US as well- hence the “Red Ball Express.”

[@timbrown1481]

Victory disease. Over extension of supply lines just like Rommel in Africa 1:05:49

[@markrunnalls7215]

I heard someone say that if Hitler bypassed Yugoslavia, they made a tangible point that the Germans could well have taken Moscow.

[@WW2TV]

I've heard that too

[@donaldkepple4927]

And I have heard the same

[@timbrown1481]

Accordion effect- yes. So are the Germans more interested in miles driven and not terrain secured and killing the enemy? Trading security for speed isn’t a good idea.

[@Digmen1]

Annother problem for western historians is the German Language and their gothic style characters. Let alone Russian It must be a massive job