WWE's rot has been there for decades | Wrestling Observer Radio

Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez discuss a new story by Nick Kiniski where he said he was repeatedly propositioned by Terry Garvin in the 1980s to the point he told Vince McMahon, who did nothing about it.
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[@ScottMachesky]

No one wants to hear this, but the fans’ denial of reality contributes to the rot as well. If you’re making jokes about this, or saying “wrestling should be an escape from reality,” you are complicit. This is how wwe was able to survive 1992

[@mikey77750]

Can’t argue with that

[@ScottMachesky]

@@DuckTheHeel you’re calling yourself out here. AEW has its fair share of problems, and you’d be a moron to believe otherwise. This is a cultural and institutional problem that has existed for decades.

[@TheDefenseIsUpNext]

Yeah. The reality of this news is that every one of your favorite main event guys growing up, was only in that spot because they played along with Vince's world of madness

[@Lemont5236]

Most fans. Not everyone is in that box, at least I’m NOT

[@Djclyve]

If Vince showed up at an event now, people in the front row would be bowing to him like nothing happened.

[@pjmmaloney4458]

Dave Meltzer’s greatest skill is putting big stories in a broader context. He is so good at it.

[@kelvinloyola6070]

Well a liar can take any set of events and create a great story... Meltzer is a fibber of the highest order.

[@hevykevy316]

​@@kelvinloyola6070what are you taking about. How can he be lying about something that actually happened?

[@animedrawer69]

It’s remarkable how many stories come out and the general reaction is people knew about it but because it’s the WWE no one was punished and it just got swept under the rug.

[@FrankGrimes9]

Its like that in all industries. Football movies is all the same. if you pay attention they are telling you America is done

[@flyguy7825]

The sadder part is that people still wont care because people are making money for that company and the these fans will contine to put money into the WWE and not care about these scandals

[@auramigraine]

Alot of people forget that when Snuka was seeing the girl he murdered Vince also had a confirmed line of communication with said girl and also Snuka was married with kids while seeing that girl.

[@flyguy7825]

YES but people dont wanna talk about it partly because they dont know or care

[@michaelsinger4638]

Barry Orton (Randy’s uncle) accused Terry Garvin of sexually assaulting him as well. And called Vince a liar when Vince denied the allegations.

[@KJC04]

Terry also assaulted a minor, who happened to be a ring boy. The kid was fired for refusing Terry's advancements.

[@beaston]

I am SO tired of WWE tribalists and wrestlers too pretending like they've never heard of this stuff over the years. If you worked there, you would have known that Divas were being harassed and you would have also heard of the weirdo sexual stuff behind the scenes (women and men being pressured into exchanging sexual favors for pushes). The lies and denials are getting really tired. Anyone with a brain would know that the WWE always had a strange sexual underworld.

[@Lemont5236]

I’m so tired of y’all not being able to make valid points without insulting the other people who y’all disagree with

[@xoynialedmc]

Lita pre WWE with el dandy

[@juniorkhomari1850]

I wouldn't think stuff like this happened in the late 2010s. Because the latest lawsuit against vince reveals that a lot of what happened occurred at titan tours or behind closed doors in hotels. I wouldn't think the modern roster knew about such things and it would be unfair to say "everyone must've known"

[@HassanAlBanna-t4d]

The company will not change their behavior if fans still give them their money, someone gotta start a boycott campaign or something, those people in power don’t care to change this behavior. Disgusting.

[@MyChannel-ol1zz]

Drones will apologize for Vince/WWE and claim it’s alright because money.

[@juniorkhomari1850]

Uhm, tf are you talking about?

[@MyChannel-ol1zz]

@@juniorkhomari1850 Found one

[@flyguy7825]

Exactly your 100% right about that

[@MyChannel-ol1zz]

@@juniorkhomari1850 Found one

[@thatspiritualhumane]

Vince has been screwing lives of both old /new wrestlers, both male /female, for literally 4-5 decades. Thousands of 'em can be named, but nobody is willing to come out OR many are dead already !

[@EchoMirage72]

Everyone seems surprised by the stories that are coming out. Wrestlers have told their stories for years about how they'd hit on fans, and other wrestlers. Not only that, even stories like the Plane Ride from Hell aren't enough for everyone to actually have done something about that company.

[@flyguy7825]

People dont care bro thats the sad reality of it

[@brycemcneil4404]

I sometimes wonder how different the timeline would be if The National Sports Daily had stuck around for 8-12 more months, with Dave reporting on the steroid/sex abuse scandals to a mainstream sports audience.

[@burgerdaveee]

kunitsky added 20+ years to his life by not becoming a pro wrestler

[@aSteamyCupOfJosh]

Thank goodness for Post Wrestling and Jon’s team over there.

[@xoynialedmc]

For what?

[@aSteamyCupOfJosh]

@@xoynialedmc for the quality reporting. Was kinda inferred.

[@jakeinator722]

POST Wrestling with John Pollock is the best in the business. Non-stop comprehensive reporting and I hope they never stop.

[@xoynialedmc]

Why?

[@meherenow793]

product has been garbage for 20+ years too

[@MyChannel-ol1zz]

In the interview, Nick said he decided to come forward with his story now because he felt it would actually be covered with the current lawsuit and string of other abuses coming to light.

[@tonyclifton2230]

I wonder if his story led in any way to nailz beating up vince. He tagged with him in awa and I imagine didn't speak to positive about him.

[@rocketdive2001]

Vince allowed and contributed to the rot and encouraged it - that’s why we have what we have now. People know but what can you do in a business that requires you to protect it. Same kind of corruption happens in other types of sports as well, each with their own code - everyone is just racing to see who gets caught first, loses.

[@BePatient888]

Any chances that HHH was not aware of this stuff? Or The Rock, or Stone Col, or Undertaker? PROTECT THE BUSINESS is their credo and mantra. I don't suppose that today it is anything like this, but who knows? Vince, John Laurentis, and Brock Lesnar have been implicated with this kind of behavior. All those Attitude era wrestlers and staffers were certainly in on this. And likely the "Ruthless Aggression: era wrestlers. So when did this stuff stop? Did it stop? If the current lawsuit is credible, then it didn't stop at all.

[@LH74]

They all knew. But society is different now and this matters now. It didn’t back then.

[@sr-kz1xt]

I think it's true what Dave said here. Nobody cares enough because it's wrestling. Had this happen in any other sport there would be more attention.

[@andrewjones3295]

Don't think Vince wasn't in on both sexes as well

[@xoynialedmc]

He is bi

[@andrewjones3295]

@xoynialedmcesoentill6034 yeah, those rumors have been around forever. I guess it's a power thing with him

[@kurtcostigan95]

This guy refused, how many didn't?

[@JoeCinocca]

Ask HBK

[@HassanAlBanna-t4d]

You have to look at the people who got pushed undeservedly to know the people who didn’t refuse.

[@marzattackz6736]

hahaha I haven't watched wrestling in decades (probably around the John cena era), but I guess the rumors about some wrestlers and vince were true.... a bunch of degenerates...

[@aaronknautz7364]

It’s been decades since Cena?

[@duckmercy11]

​@@aaronknautz7364Two decades since he debuted.

[@GillBoldberg]

These stories are ruining my fandom. Just looking back at the attitude era… that had to be Vince’s wet dream. He was no doubt using those storylines to degrade men and women for the world to see and who knows how many he was abusing behind the scenes.

[@luisrizo8813]

Are they going to talk about the Alex Riley/ Kaitlyn story ?

[@betunia98]

What’s that story

[@luisrizo8813]

@@betunia98 kzbin.infopn7CSEWaU48

[@xoynialedmc]

Never heard it

[@dronegraveyard]

@@betunia98 lol im thinking the same thing. idk the story

[@crummymonk4917]

I think its HHH/Kaitlyn and its a standard affair story. Comes from Ryback, so take that for what you will. The Riley story is that Cena didnt like him and got him fired.

[@X_Blake]

I'm not surprised

[@mfm4205]

well, dave did report at the time the nickname folks around wwf had for garvin and patterson (the cream team) wwe finally got popular enough that all of vince's sins have come out in the mainstream (fans knew this stuff for decades, though)

[@pooldead7712]

Mainstream have known about a lot of things vince has done for decades they just haven't had the support they do now. He stopped paying nda's and family's, friends and victims are finally speaking out. He also doesn't have certain lawyers that got him out of trouble anymore.

[@rogerbabin8175]

Title: We know this. YOU'VE talked about it in the form of wrestling stories. Randy Orton's alleged writers handshake was one such story you told that's just flat out sexual harassment and coercion in the absolute best light and may have devolved to sexual abuse. People like Dave and Jim Cornette have been telling wrestling stories for decades...you think of them as stories but in a lot of cases they involve some pretty deranged acts...these are the stories you are willing to tell. I constantly hear about remarks on how you can't talk about 'that one'....meanwhile you can tell the story where a wrestler stabbed another wrestlers hand with a fork while on the road. Makes you wonder what stories go to far.

[@LH74]

200 prematurely dead wrestlers in 25 years. Think about that.

[@patbrooks9823]

Exactly how did Terry Garvin get his position with WWF? He wasn't one of the loyalists who'd been with the company like Tony Garea, Rene Goulet, Blackjack Lanza, Jay Strongbow & others. I've seen no evidence that he worked there at all or at least for any length of time. Was it simply a case of being gay and that was good for an endorsement from Patterson?

[@americasevilgenius]

He ended up there in the mid-80's when nearly everyone was getting swept up into WWF. His last position pre-WWF (at least that I know of), was as a ring announcer in Central States (I presume he would have been doing some office work there as well). Most likely, somebody up in WWF put in a good word for him, and he ended up there in the office.

[@thepolarphantasm2319]

When they stopped caring about wrestling in 2001 they went right into sex slavery

[@jamesmiller5331]

"Please stop" "Don't do that" "See you at work tomorrow, big boy😍" Slavery

[@DevoJetBoy8680]

Oh please. Such a stupid overreach. "Sex slavery"...Get a grip. 🙄

[@wereallscrewed9714]

The diva search was basically shootin fish in a barrel 😂

[@thepolarphantasm2319]

​@@DevoJetBoy8680lol read the case kid

[@johnnysupreme5718]

​@@thepolarphantasm2319Yeah that's being dramatic

[@manniefaces]

WWE fans have had their hands in the c and for years.

[@fjccommish]

Yet you never said a word about it until it's time to cancel Vince.

[@nielgregory108]

Dave HAD TO KNOW about this stuff so why didn't DAVE say something to somebody or even do actual reporting and expose this stuff. Dave was just part of the problem.

[@glenndallas7171]

Mainstream media didn't give a crap about pro wrestling.

[@chrischar9428]

He reported on it

[@CA_I]

I've thought something similar, not just about the Observer. Why didn't these reporters do more, or were they fearful of action from the organisation they covered?

[@chrischar9428]

@@CA_I I think it was viewed as beneath them. Phil mushnick aside

[@Salesman]

Dave reported on it, but unfortunately, the mainstream media world has looked down on pro wrestling for decades now. It's below them and they have always looked at it as a joke and the fans as mouth breathing retards. The only person who has always called Vince McMahon out is Phil Mushnick but Mushnick never did himself any favors by always attacking the fans badly.

[@originalrkmorton]

Thank you, media person, for ringing the bell on the media over not reporting a story on WWE's boss only when he is no longer in power, that coincidentally has no possible bearing on any person left at WWE because booking now = good

[@flyguy7825]

Ok now we know what you care about like I said nobody cares

[@Dr_1212]

Jail predator vince

[@akshit318]

How can anyone forget, PONJOE...😂

[@ramborhoa]

This video get 2.25 STARS!!!!

[@TheJFM]

Gene Kanitsky? I bet it wasn't his fault.

[@thehighground_]

Gene Kiniski is a pro wrestling legend. Gene Snitsky is a scrub

[@wereallscrewed9714]

​@@thehighground_ You need scrubs on the roster too

[@duckmercy11]

Well played, sir.

[@jimmybananahamok6903]

A scrub is a guy that thinks he's fly

[@JoeCinocca]

“You never know”? Bullshit, Dave. You’ve known for decades. Don’t sit there and act shocked like it’s a brand new thing. You’ve got hundreds of “off the record” stories. So spare me with the justifications.

[@flyguy7825]

Yes and he has been telling people since but yall didn't wanna believe him

[@JoeCinocca]

@@flyguy7825 that’s revisionist. He hasn’t been “telling people” since the 90s. Like everyone else, he knew. Towed the line like the rest. “Telling the rest” GFOH

[@flyguy7825]

@@JoeCinocca Man, stop. Dave meltzer along with a few others been champions of exposing Vince McMahon for who he is. Sounds like you've already drunk the Kool-Aid and is drunk with it

[@JoeCinocca]

@@flyguy7825 No. I beg to differ. He hasn’t championed exposing him in the least. What a crock. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Dave doesn’t get a pass. He was complicit then. Now that it’s “safe” & there’s money to make off of it, he’s all about it. Definitely not a Vince fan, lumping me in with the kool aid drinkers is foolish. I hope Vince serves time, but the odds are doubtful.

[@nin_tendo6458]

​@@JoeCinoccaI mean Dave has been telling these stories for decades. What exactly was he supposed to do outside of that? No one was willing to come out against Vince and WWE fans have been calling him a liar and biased and jealous the whole time. He told the truth and people didn't want to hear it and somehow that's his fault? No. All you're doing is defending Vince by pretending Dave did something wrong. It's dishonest and disingenuous.

[@crutchddaddy95]

Let me start off by saying, I believe Ms, Grant's story, I believe Ashley Massero. However, just like with the Benoit tragedy, this is starting to become a circus of long forgotten nobody wrestlers making accusations without proof just to cling to relevance.

[@dogmd7]

Well said. It’s important to contextualize everything and all allegations are just that until proven by law.

[@elliott316]

If only there was a journalist who covered wrestling during this time.

[@FrankGrimes9]

You can say that about every case like this. They joked on the stern show about Cosby putting thing in peoples cup in 1992. Trump like them young. They have pics of him and Epstein and he still won the 2016 election. Nobody does the right thing. Shit Jim Cornette was still being nice about Vince issues because he thought he might get a call still. America is a nasty nasty place

[@nin_tendo6458]

Dave has been talking about this kind of stuff for years but people have always dismissed it as Dave being biased. The tribalism in wrestling fandom is ridiculous.

[@thegirdybird]

Dave needs to pray every night before he goes to bed and thank God that he’s still able to bring in a paycheck. No one on this planet has ever talked longer yet said absolutely nothing.

[@flyguy7825]

So you dont understand english?got it

[@cobrakaiisback4709]

Sometimes i wonder if guys like john cena and randy orton sucked pat pattersons stick and guys like mark jindrak and ron waterman did not. 2 went on to become huge stars the other 2 never did anything of note in wwe.

[@xoynialedmc]

And Vince. Same for females

[@patjablonski9739]

If Dave heard these stories at the time, why didn't he find his balls and report on them?

[@robertalexandertracey8351]

He did… he was even on Donahue talk show!!

[@xShoTime83x]

@@robertalexandertracey8351 That was like '91? In this video, Meltzer admits to knowing more stories when mentioning the Paterno case breaking - which was long after being on Donahue.

[@flyguy7825]

@@xShoTime83x Bro clearly your new to Dave and his reporting he has being like the number one guy, whos been reporting on Vince and his cons

[@xShoTime83x]

@@flyguy7825 In this very video Meltzer admits to knowing the Nick Kiniski story, without plugging what Observer back issue it was in - know why? Because he didn't report it, but hell of a try with that lie you're attempting to pass off. Meltzer is not a investigative reporter or even a journalist. He's some guy who watches TV and wannabe smarks put him on a pedestal because he gives star ratings to their favorites. Whatever Dave has to say isn't worth dirt.

[@nin_tendo6458]

He has been reporting this stuff, but people just handwaved it away and called it bias.

[@jamesmiller5331]

"Please stop" "Don't do that" "See you at work tomorrow, big boy😍"

[@TribalThief]

Thanks for the money and presents, I'll see big Johnny at 9 tomorrow morning in the hilton..

[@jamesmiller5331]

@dn22pkkdd476 does that mean you believe the affidavit word for word, or are you trying to say the idea of not just going along with it and using it to trash somebody that a lot of people already dislike in and of itself is "boot licking"? 🤔 I already know anyone that spends a lot of time using the phrase "boot licker" usually also spends a lot of time wishing that the government was paying their bills so I can only imagine how deep this femininity goes. That has to suck so bad man.. having to pay your bills and supply your own health care insurance 🥺

[@jamesmiller5331]

@RomanianPeter the lawyer: " and then he passed you around? Here, let's put 'S X TRAFFICKING' on there. He is a public figure. People only read headlines so this will do maximum damage and bring him to the negotiating table faster, trust me" Meanwhile on the WON Message Board: 😱😱😱😱😥😢😭🥺🤕🙀 "Maybe if we stay on this subject for the next year we will finally have a girlfriend and AEW will become #1!"

[@TribalThief]

Neckbeard virgins🙄

[@gabetough5530]

Geez Meltzer making us fall asleep just listening to him.

[@FrankGrimes9]

Geez why not turn on something you enjoy instead of being a whiny little frogrock

[@Bandana_Boi]

Wowzah

[@georgefrancis8602]

Mr Mcmahon is innocent leave him alone!

[@NDiddy]

Im sure it's common knowledge but I actually didnt know until now that Garvin was a gay little fannyass.

[@benespinosa6725]

LMAO more vince drama ay dios mio 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@luisrizo8813]

This is literally playing out like a weekly soap opera, with a single juicy detail being released every week.

[@benespinosa6725]

​@@luisrizo8813i didn't even put the two and two together lol you're absolutely right 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@addidaswguy]

Oh noo you had to get jacked to be a professional wrestler in the 80s?! And maybe some roids? Roids are awesome in moderation. Gotta love how they are using all these jobbers from 40 years ago who have sour grapes because they never got a push, to get a few extra thousand views on this damn youtube channel.. Why not go report on some old backstage segments as new Dave?

[@Raymond-zi7tp]

He was a jobber everywhere he went, meltzer has made living going after Vince , Dave meltzer has zero credibility.

[@jonny8908]

Bot account

[@johnnysupreme5718]

how many NDAs does he have

[@TheWintersoldier84]

I looooooooooove it when Meltz says the EFF word!!

[@rickroberts7611]

Go study cagematch ratings

[@doug2731]

Meltzer has screeched about McHiTLeR for decades. Didn't care about due process then and never will. VKMs existence has triggered Dave his entire adult life.

[@DenkyManner]

So? You think vince is innocent?

[@duckmercy11]

Go back to SCJerk with this tripe.

[@josamaroo]

Oh Wow another non important video from Marky Mark and Mucky Muck.

[@jocam21]

The piling on the last few months with this story is amazing to see. Especially when nothing has even been actually PROVEN!

[@dogmd7]

Facts

[@ibbixp3boy418]

Of course dave heard the story 😂😂😂😂

[@glenndallas7171]

He reported on it a LONG time ago.

[@TribalThief]

Don callis.....no, ok

[@jonny8908]

How original bringing aew to this. Get a life.

[@jonny8908]

@@chuckles9767 tell me how am I complicit?

[@TribalThief]

.....khans booking though 😂😂😂😏

[@christophermarriott1681]

Better than that fraud Triple H who can't book a good PPV consistently. Triple H about to get his walking papers with the allegations. Triple H will never be as good as Tony Khan.