Defeating the Desert Fox by Nigel Hamilton (2012)

At the 2012 International Conference on World War II, Nigel Hamilton and Col. Roger Cirillo present "Defeating the Desert Fox," presented by The National WWII Museum in New Orleans. www.wwiiconference.com

[@ben-jam-in6941]

“ I took a trip with Field Marshall Montgomery to Chartwell for the weekend to visit Sir Winston Churchill”. I bet he is the only person that can say they have done that. My God I would drive them insane with questions or maybe I’d have enough restraint over myself to just listen. I’m really glad he included that little bit of information.

[@ppumpkin3282]

The unfortunate part of that, if you study a subject for a long time you finally get some depth. I bet ten to twenty years after he met with those two, he had some really good questions he wished he asked.

[@casparcoaster1936]

ALWAYS use 1.25 play back speed w/ sir Nigel... but always worthwhile to listen to. Even 1.5 if you are easily bored

[@dancingpotplant]

Oh my goodness yes! Listened to the first little bit and so tedious, knock the speed up and suddenly very engaging.

[@D45VR]

Some of us appreciste his tone and overall delivery.

[@Galenus1234]

Thanks to all allied soldiers who aimed at my grandpa in Tunisia and missed him and especially those Brits who captured him as a POW.

[@T.S.Birkby]

A wild Chieftain has entered 1:23:00

[@lulz3395]

Da fuck

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Funny that Gen. Gavin would say that movie Patton was better than the real Patton - because movie Gavin was better than the real Gavin. In A Bridge Too Far Gavin doesn’t fuck up and wait to take the bridge and Nijmegen, stalling 20 corps advance. Purely coincidental I’m sure, Gavin was an advisor on both the book and film versions of A Bridge Too Far.

[@bigwoody4704]

Monty never showed up for his own Operation after telling IKE and everyone else in SHAEF HQ he'd be in Berlin and didn't make it to Arnhem. read Hastings,Hart,Kershaw,Keegan,Barr,Barnett,beevor,Bennet for starters

[@VileCAESARB]

Great username

[@paddy864]

I can't believe Cirillo actually took that comment about the Irish Guards seriously. I'm afraid he doesn't understand British officers anywhere near as well as he thinks he does.What's more, they were lead battalion of 30 Corps on M.G. for no other reason than that it was their turn to be in front! I'm also surprised that Nigel Hamilton didn't point out to that woman just how far El Alamein is from Tunis, some 1200 miles along a single road pursuing Rommel who was retreating along his own lines of supply while Monty's were getting longer all the time. He also kept his powder far too dry as far as what happened before and after the defeat of the German armies in France, but then again I suppose he had to consider the room!

[@sean640307]

I had a similar thought to you - that he was probably mindful of the audience in the room. In fact, we KNOW he was by his response to that question where he said he was being "very uncontroversial" (@1.25.19) There seems to be some odd notion that racing off into the enemy at full pace is going to save lives, but as Cirillo says, Patton doing exactly that actually cost so many more lives! The stats don't like - Monty's method was right!

[@OldWolflad]

The Grenadier Guards did just as much fighting at MG as Irish Guards - both were superb

[@lyndoncmp5751]

"What's more, they were lead battalion of 30 Corps on M.G. for no other reason than that it was their turn to be in front!" And the Grenadier Guards took the lead for the two day fight through Nijmegen and over the bridge there.

[@andreslinares6429]

Omg going on a weekend with Field Marshall Montgomery and Sir Winston Churchill

[@noldo3837]

With all respect to what Sir Winston Churchill has achieved, as a person, as same as other great people of similar kind, for example de Gaulle, was one terrible person, who was, midly said, difficult to get along with.

[@TheFreshman321]

The German commander of the 5th Panzer Army, Hasso von Manteuffel said of Montgomery's leadership at the Bulge: The operations of the American 1st Army had developed into a series of individual holding actions. Montgomery's contribution to restoring the situation was that he turned a series of isolated actions into a coherent battle fought according to a clear and definite plan. It was his refusal to engage in premature and piecemeal counter-attacks which enabled the Americans to gather their reserves and frustrate the German attempts to extend their breakthrough.

[@nickdanger3802]

How did he know what Montgomery did at the Bulge?

[@terrysmith9362]

idiot.

[@terrysmith9362]

@Nick Danger idiot

[@bigwoody4704]

Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan.Go to bed littleTubby boy Smith,Where are your sources you petulant little knob? Have your handler read some history to you

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Name the US general who ran away from his Command Post in the German Bulge attack? 20 points for the correct answer.

[@Clarc115]

Before Montgomery and Rommel, there was General Richard Nugent O'Connor, who was handed a disaster situation by high command, yet managed victory after victory wielding a British 'Colonial' Army; O'Connor's feats, one, seized Tobruk, Operation Compass, etc., in other battles must be taken into consideration, and Churchill's unravelling of those victories must be disclosed, when talking of the WWII North Africa campaign.

[@bigwoody4704]

Absolutely O'Connor understood modern,mechanical warfare and tactics.Monty was an old decietful woman who claimed credit that wasn't his and deflected blame that was

[@johnburns4017]

@Clarc king Churchill said his biggest mistake of WW2 was taking troop from Africa to Greece. Which it was, as the Italians were about to be driven off the Continenet of Africa.

[@bigwoody4704]

Burnhole,they got drubbed at Caen,Falise,Sicily,Italy and Bernard never even showed up at Monty Garden. Since 1940 British Empire forces "evacuated" from Norway, Belgium and France. 1941 Greece, Crete and Libya. 1942 Dieppe and Tobruk.Won't even mention Singapore and Hong Kong. What's that 0-8 or sum such 😜 Tell your droopy delusions to your subservant saps in Trinidad and Tobago

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Which US general ordered that gap at Falaise not be closed? 20 points for the correct answer.

[@bigwoody4704]

I'm not in the habit of discussing your delusions. *I love quizzes What so called Field Marshall didn't cross the 30 Mile wide Channel for 4 FULL YEARS .It only took 16-20 days to leave?* *The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know .You're going to have to make up a whole bunch of wonderful new lies or people aren't going to want to go on reading* Like Monty Python *RUNAWAY*

[@kaylemoine1571]

I enjoyed the info on Montgomery. All I had heard about him wasn't very complementary. He obviously had a whole lot to him. I'm glad.

[@Aubury]

A tour de force of the American Army leadership. Utterly candid. The comments on the British officer class of today, like the curates egg. Bravo

[@tbeller80]

George Marshall made the same assessment of Patton that Cirillo did during the last question. He said something like "he'll be best chasing down the Germans."

[@paddy864]

Yes, so long as they're in retreat, not so much when they stop, turn, dig-in and fight.

[@paddy864]

I think Hamilton's treatment of General Straffer Gott in this lecture is pretty poor actually. He may not have been the best choice to replace Auchinleck, largely because having been in the desert since the very start of the war and risen from commanding a Motor Battalion (1 KRRC) to commanding a Corps in about three years, and been in action throughout that whole period, he was worn out and exhausted. He did not "commandeer" a Red Cross plane, he hitched a lift on it to grab a much needed few days rest (he'd had no leave in two years) in Cairo before assuming command. What's more he was helping to get the other passengers out of the crashed aircraft when he was killed. Gott was a very good officer and general and hugely well liked by all who served above, beside and under him, he deserves better than this kind of shabby commentary from Hamilton. On another point, the troops who surrendered at Tobruk were South African, not British, and there is a whole back-story to that. I make the point because when we speak of the way it was successful defended for two years we always point out that it was the Australians who did it, we don't say they were "British".

[@MyLagga]

Gott said himself that he needed a rest, which makes the choice even more curious. But in addition, his performance in Operation Crusader was at best lacklustre. He was unfortunately a bad choice whatever way you look at it.

[@navyreviewer]

I still always chuckle when I think about Rommel moaning about his fuel shortage.... while standing in Libya.

[@behindthespotlight7983]

No applause on the Montgomery/Churchill remark?? WHAT kinda WW2 buffs are these people ? 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@casparcoaster1936]

1;23 Chieftan (as a child) riffing on the Italian 90mm AA gun... never heard of it!!??

[@o5m67]

Nigel's pronounciation of German words is excellent, chapeau !

[@serafimsousa5383]

Exellent. Thank you.

[@ChurchHatesTucker]

The Chieftain asks a question at 1:23!

[@Flipmole123]

1:23:00

[@ppumpkin3282]

If what Nigel says is true it sounds like Patton was like McArthur in that the Army managed his image for so it's solders and publics didn't know we had some lemons in our military leadership.

[@MyLagga]

Patton brought with him a press corps of 49 people, I think that says it all...

[@noldo3837]

Some scientists, namely historians, after being focused on some topic for a long time, tend to lose objectivity and tend to love more and more the object of their study. The first guy is not a historian anymore, he is a fan and has a crush on Monty.

[@henrikrothen5640]

German 88 mm FLAK easy to conceal? In relation to what I wonder...

[@adrielcamilo2564]

Dude it was a secret weapon (i'm joking), they put fear in you with the stuka siren, use the secret flak 88 that rommel inself invented and used with all hes power and german stuff that the allies can't compete. Btw the dude mystify as hell the germans.

[@johnburns4017]

@Henrik Rothen A tank.

[@Stephen-wb3wf]

1:23:02 The Chieftan!!! what a lovely surpise

[@TheFreshman321]

This accusation that Montgomery took his time getting across Africa is unsustainable. The Anglo American Torch landing force was 376 miles away from Tunis compared to the 8th Army that crossed 2000 miles of desert yet got to Tunis at the same time as Anglo American forces as part of the Torch landings did.

[@johnpeate4544]

In North Africa Monty's 8th Army advanced from El Alamein to El Agheila from the 4th to 23rd November 1942, 1,300 km in just 19 days. *The fastest advance for such such a distance in WW2.* And that was *after* fighting a major exhausting battle at El Alemein through half a million mines. No such quantity of mines was laid anywhere else in the Second World War.

[@andrewminnich5106]

You two seem to forget that Rommel, on purpose didn't engage the 8th army at all the entire length of retreat until they approach Tunisia. Driving in the face of a retreating enemy is not THAT impressive.

[@bigwoody4704]

um no you bullshit artist John Peate it wasn't Patton captured a lot more than the snitty little waif.And the russians captured more than them.Playing in a little sand box that rommel had been cut off from the outside and the bent knob still never caught him More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013

[@johnburns4017]

@@andrewminnich5106 I wonder why Rommel ran so fast.

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Name the British general who planned Normandy and commanded *all* the ground forces. 20 points for the correct answer.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Cirillo at around 1:10~1:13 is just superb -- except that he means English, not "British." Reminds me of Bertrand Russell's good crack, more or less "The Battle of Waterloo may have been won on the playing fields of Eton, but that's where the English learned their inability to understand the French Revolution, too." American Revolution ditto, sez I.

[@robertpentangelo4860]

He voted in a USA Presidential election, eh? Gee, hope it works out for him than the rest of us.

[@monashsq4001]

Typical pom didn't"t mention the Australians holding Tobruk for 9 months then they were relieved and went off to fight the Japanese. The Australians beat Rommel and then the English lost Tobruk.

[@wuffothewonderdog]

All down to Churchill micro-managing everything and insisting that Tobruk be held, against all the local military saying it was a waste of scarce resources and logistically expensive to supply.

[@martincaines2128]

South Africans lost Tobruk,try reading some books.

[@paddy864]

@@martincaines2128 Correct.

[@VileCAESARB]

Why does this even matter, whether it was Ozzies, SA's or Brits. This whole kinda t*ttery is the reason why it takes so long for us to work together, childish.

[@johnburns4017]

The lady who asked the question, saying Monty was too slow in Africa. *The fastest advance in WW2 was Monty chasing Rommel 1,000 km in 17 days.* Monty never outran his supply lines - which can be fatal. The finest army in the world from mid 1942 onwards was the British under Montgomery. From Alem el Halfa it moved right up into Denmark, through nine countries, and not once suffered a reverse taking all in its path. *Over 90% of German armour in the west was destroyed by the British.* Montgomery, in command of all ground forces, had to give the US armies an infantry role in Normandy as they were not equipped to engage massed German SS armour. *Montgomery* stopped the Germans in every event they attacked him: ♦ August 1942 - Alem el Halfa; ♦ October 1942 - El Alamein; ♦ March 1943 - Medenine; ♦ June 1944 - Normandy; ♦ Sept/Oct 1944 - The Netherlands; ♦ December 1944 - Battle of the Bulge; *A list of Montgomery’s victories in WW2:* ♦ Battle of Alam Halfa; ♦ Second Battle of El Alamein; ♦ Battle of El Agheila; ♦ Battle of Medenine; ♦ Battle of the Mareth Line; ♦ Battle of Wadi Akarit; ♦ Allied invasion of Sicily; ♦ Operation Overlord - the largest amphibious invasion in history; ♦ Market Garden - a 60 mile salient created into German territory; ♦ Battle of the Bulge - while taking control of two shambolic US armies; ♦ Operation Veritable; ♦ Operation Plunder. *Montgomery not once had a reverse.* *Not on one occasion were ground armies, British, US or others, under Monty's command pushed back into a retreat by the Germans.* Monty's 8th Army advanced the fastest of any army in WW2. From El Alamein to El Agheila from the 4th to 23rd November 1942, 1,300 km in just 17 days. After fighting a major exhausting battle at El Alemein through half a million mines. This was an Incredible feat, unparalleled in WW2. With El Alamein costing just 13,500 casualties. The US Army were a shambles in 1944/45 retreating in the Ardennes. The Americans didn't perform well at all east of Aachen, then the Hurtgen Forest defeat with 33,000 casualties and Patton's Lorraine crawl of 10 miles in three months at Metz with over 50,000 casualties, with the Lorraine campaign being a failure. Then Montgomery had to be put in command of the shambolic US First and Ninth armies, aided by the British 21st Army Group, just to get back to the start line in the Ardennes, with nearly 100,000 US casualties. Hodges, head of the US First army, fled from Spa to near Liege on the 18th, despite the Germans never getting anywhere near to Spa. Hodges did not even wait for the Germans to approach Spa. He had already fled long before the Germans were stopped. The Germans took 20,000 US POWs in the Battle of The Bulge in Dec 1944. No other allied country had that many prisoners taken in the 1944-45 timeframe. The USA retreat at the Bulge, again, was the only allied army to be pushed back into a retreat in the 1944-45 timeframe. Montgomery was effectively in charge of the Bulge having to take control of the US First and Ninth armies. Coningham of the RAF was put in command of USAAF elements. The US Third Army constantly stalled after coming up from the south. The Ninth stayed under Monty's control until the end of the war just about. The US armies were losing men at unsustainable rates due to poor generalship.Normandy was planned and commanded by the British, with Montgomery involved in planning, with also Montgomery leading *all* ground forces, which was a great success coming in ahead of schedule and with less casualties than predicted. The Royal Navy was in command of all naval forces and the RAF all air forces. The German armour in the west was wiped out by primarily the British - the US forces were impotent against massed panzers. Monty assessed the US armies (he was in charge of them) giving them a supporting infantry role, as they were just not equipped, or experienced, to fight concentrated tank v tank battles. On 3 Sept 1944 when Eisenhower took over overall allied command of ground forces everything went at a snail's pace. The fastest advance of any western army in Autumn/early 1945 was the 60 mile thrust by the British XXX Corps to the Rhine at Arnhem. *You need to give respect where it is due.*

[@johnburns4017]

@@nickdanger3802 Hi Rambo!

[@nickdanger3802]

WW2 Animated: Western Front, 1944-1945. Part 1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6Gwo2SCgt5goNE

[@johnburns4017]

@@nickdanger3802 Hi Rambo!

[@bigwoody4704]

More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013

[@bigwoody4704]

There appears to be three Desert Generals that understood how to fight tank battles in the wide expanses of the desert: Erwin Rommel, Richard O’Conner, and Chad Auchinleck. O’Conner, by a bad stroke of luck, is taken prisoner by the Germans after making a wrong turn in the desert. Enter Auchinleck who appoints two unsuited candidates for command of the 8th Army prior to taking the job himself. Like O’Conner, Auk understands desert warfare or at least he “gets it” or is “getting it” prior to the 1st battle of El Alemein. After Auk saves the day the PM visits 8th Army and fires Auk and several members of his staff. Again, looking at this in a positive light, Having Monty take the helm of 8th Army helped to cement Rommel’s reputation for an eternity. Had Auk been left in charge Rommel would have likely been a POW. Corelli Barnett's main contention - that General Montgomery's accomplishments were more mythical than factual .RW Thompson ,Rick Atkinson,Dr Niall Barr,Antony Beevor,Max Hastings ,Biddell-Hart and many other agree,Monty was a Liar and a crap commander

[@ppumpkin3282]

While Nigel is saying a lot of things about the Brits, Nigel looks like he's staring daggers.

[@casparcoaster1936]

I have a boney face and skull.... no hat works fashion wise, except a stocking cap

[@ganesan6503]

Rommel a got field Marshal

[@OldWolflad]

Does Roger Cirillo not realise that the Guards brigades were rotated? The Irish Guards were used no more than the Grenadier Guards, the Coldstream Guards, Welsh Guards etc. Bit of a cheap comment. But that's what gets him attention I guess. Regards the woman who thinks war is a simple game of over-whelming the Germans (:-. I know she was trying to imply the Brits just fuddled along at times. Montgomery knew that the British were running short of manpower and so yes, he was cautious at times. This wasn't something unique to the British divisions, American General Gavin said of standard American GI's at Nonceveux, Belgium on 18 January 1945: - “Still in a rest area. A most unusual state of affairs. If our infantry would fight, this war would be over by now. On our present front are two very weak German regiments holding the 18 Corps four divisions. We all know it and admit it, and yet nothing is being done about it. American infantry just simply will not fight. No one wants to get killed. Not that anyone else does, but at least others will take a chance now and then. Our artillery is wonderful, our Air Corps not bad, but the regular infantry, terrible. The sight of a few Germans drives them to their foxholes.” Of course, both ethe British and Americans had excellent divisions and some not so good ones. Its true of any Army. But it does annoy me when people infer that the British avoided battle as this woman did. German General Blumentritt, Chief of Staff was interviewed by B.H. Liddell Hart for his book ‘The German General's Talk’, regards the different qualities of British and American troops, Blumentritt said: - "The Americans attacked with zest, and had a keen sense of mobile action, but when it came under heavy artillery fire they usually fell back - even after they had made a successful penetration. By contrast, once the British had got their teeth in, and had been in a position for twenty-four hours, it proved almost impossible to shift them. To counterattack the British always cost us very heavy losses. I had many opportunities to observe this interesting difference in the autumn of 1944, when the right-half of my Corps faced the British, and the left-half the Americans". The Americans enjoyed far greater back up artillery support, German Commander Von Rundstedt stated: -“The Americans were more imaginative and daring in the use of armour, the British superb with infantry. In each case however, Commanders made the difference”. Veteran Commander of 2nd Panzer Corps Wilhelm Bittrich, a distinguished and highly-decorated officer with experience of fighting on many fronts, commander of the feared 9th SS Panzer Divisions at Arnhem, regards the British paratroopers, stated: - "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard. They fought with fanatical doggedness”.

[@tarjei99]

Montgomery didn't understand tanks. Mccreery threatened to fire him if he didn't concentrate his armour.

[@thevillaaston7811]

Total rubbish.

[@bigwoody4704]

Yes you are and someone should take you to the curb and leave you there

[@paddy864]

How could McCreery have threatened to sack Monty when he was never his superior?

[@thevillaaston7811]

@@paddy864 Yep. Total rubbish.

[@stekarknugen9258]

1:23:05 AWWW SHIT LOOK WHO IT IS

[@MarkCartret]

So Cirillo is a Patton hater. I get that.

[@johnburns4017]

Nope.

[@waiting4aliens]

The massive surrenders of British forces deserves more study. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@smashpoundx8643]

Colonel "Chip on his Shoulder" Cirillo reminds me of that line from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar; "Some men are never at heart's ease whilst they behold a greater than themself."

[@johnburns4017]

What is wrong? He destroyed the Patton myth created by the US media over the past 75 years? Take you out of your comfort zone did he?

[@smashpoundx8643]

@@johnburns4017 What's wrong is Colonel Nothing oozes envy. I shouldn't have quoted Shakespeare. It's too much for you.

[@johnburns4017]

@@smashpoundx8643 He smashed the myths you have sucked in over the decades.

[@smashpoundx8643]

@@johnburns4017 He's a bitter man who sees everything through a prism of bitterness. Considering all the books written about Patton, I don't think this little fellow's opinion matters.

[@johnburns4017]

@@smashpoundx8643 Read Harry Yeide on Patton. A media creation. No one studying him can see what it is all about.

[@funkEfresh94]

17:23 I lold so hard

[@fjlkagudpgo4884]

YES! top moment

[@petergore1972]

Peter Gore Seer, Both The German And Brits Were Insan, The Germans Liad A Huge Mine Field In The Desert, Which The Wind Would Cover The Mines Making It Inposible To Go Thew,No Maps, And The German Army Were Stuck Behind A Invisible Mine Field, Then The Brits Were Ordered To Commit Suicied, By Walking Threw A Invisible Mine Field, Insanity By Two Armys.

[@monashsq4001]

Sorry Rommel's first defeat was against Australians at Tobruk. The 9th division. The British never like talking about Aussie success or they claim it as their own.

[@johnburns4017]

Look the Aussie 8th Division in Singapore led by Gordon Bennet.

[@paddy864]

That is simply bullshit and an outright lie. Lose the chip eh, it's pathetic.

[@VileCAESARB]

@@paddy864 I agree, I do see this chip on shoulder thing a lot: Ossies, Indians and Canadians were some of the best fighters of the war.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Why are so many people commenting on the first schmuck and not Cirillo's hilarious lecture? I fucking love this guy.

[@johnburns4017]

Then you should stick to Johnny Carson.

[@bigwoody4704]

Carson wasn much better than the jokester Monty

[@scandarani2]

What a pity that almost all WW2 historians are terrible speakers. Every 3d sentence he goes aaaaaaahhh, and then again eeeeeeehhh. Voice volume up and down and a sick sense of humour.. Pisses me off as my father fought in El Alamein and I really wanted to see this video..

[@monashsq4001]

You should also say Commonwealth forces rather then always saying British. Man show some respect.

[@johnelliott0101]

Agreed

[@crobert79]

this is really poor

[@bigwoody4704]

Quite frankly they both suck and neither are looked up to in historical,literary circles

[@dr.barrycohn5461]

I don't know why no mentioned that one of the main reasons Monty won was due to the intelligence he received from Benchley Park. I wonder if anyone ever sees Cirillo as arrogant and pompous. I found his continuous reference to Patton as George as beyond obnoxious.

[@bigwoody4704]

He had every concievable advANTAGE.He couldn't lose.Churchill realized he made a big mistake removing Auchinleck but couldn't admit it.The Auk and Dorman -smith had just won the 1st battle of El Alamein but needed 8 weeks to refit,resupply and reinforce the impatient idgit Winston removed him.And Monty wasn't even the 1st choice General Gott was but unfortunately his plane was shot down.Then Monty didn't go on the offensive for 2 months.Churchill was livid - but it was the weight of all the allied advantages that broke the Afrika Korp,not the rube Bernard.

[@dr.barrycohn5461]

@@bigwoody4704 Calling him a Rube, good choice.

[@bigwoody4704]

@@dr.barrycohn5461 seriously that's being generous,he was an insatiable liar and a narcissist not unlike McArthur.IKE was warned to quit pussy footing around with him and give him direct orders.The knob tried taking credit in the Ardennes and it was proven the spineless hack wanted to fall back.He had no problem deflecting blame that rested with him and taking credit that belonged to others.He even had to retract and re edit his 1st"memoirs" under threat of libel.Really a shame as Britain had some good soldiers - bernard wasn't one of them - think Monty Garden

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Name the British general who had to take command of two shambolic US armies in the German Bulge attack? 20 points for the correct answer.

[@bigwoody4704]

Burns go visit Monty's Statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one 🤣 Why did monty cross the road? To help JOHN Burns with his ankle monitor 😁 Why did monty cross the Channel? Because he got his ass kicked out of France 🚑 - When you're in hole stop digging dweeb

[@kellymartin8090]

Re Nigel’s presentation: I have to say, that was one of the worse presentations I’ve heard. He spent so much time mumbling around and showing us an endless line of images of Rommel, that he didn’t have time to go into detail regarding the most important battle. Pretty much a waste of my time.

[@larryzigler6812]

He is a brilliant writer, though.

[@johnburns4017]

It was meant for a live audience which is different to a Youtue.

[@bigwoody4704]

Like you johnny no one wants to listen but you should read his book the FULL MONTY, I believe you are mentioned by name in there

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo a quiz. Name the British general who had to take command of two shambolic US armies in the German Bulge attack? 20 points for the correct answer.

[@bigwoody4704]

4 years - 30 miles monty had his chance but wisely waited for the Big Boys having been Dunkirked already.Monty didn't move in Italy and got schooled in Sicily. So the GIs didn't mind him tagging along just one last time to see what it felt like.Bernard had his chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940.He failed, From that point onward, whatever he does and regardless of what happens to him - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US.

[@fabioq6916]

Why on earth would one expect a German general to object to the invasions of Poland and France? And if that is all the evidence required to tar Rommel as a "really bad Nazi" then who in Germany wasn't? No need to put Rommel down to big up Monty. All I need to say about Monty is that he never won a battle where he didn't heavily outnumber his opponents. His performance in Europe was miserable too...

[@MrOllievirus]

+Fabio Q To be fair, if your fighting a battle were you dont heavily outnumber your foe your doing something wrong.

[@fabioq6916]

oliver hayward Errrr. Or you are fighting subject to conditions dictated by circumstance ie in the real world where you play the game with the cards you are dealt. The Germans won almost all their battles outnumbered. Numbers are just one of many factors. In the context of Rommel vs Monty, you are correct that given the clear intrinsic superiority of German arms in North Africa and Rommel's tactical genius, Monty was wise to earn his nickname as old "Ten to One" to guarantee victory. Rommel had no such option given his extremely limited supply. What we CAN say though is that you should not give too much credit to Monty for Alamein as a general since the surprise is how very nearly he lost the battle rather than how he won a fight with such superiority in men and materiel.Add Monty's awful performance in France and Market Garden and we really do over rate the man. Is that fair? In summary, does anyone doubt that given equal forces, disposition and resources Rommel would whup Monty 9 out of 10 times and any given Sunday based on the record?

[@colinkelly5420]

Rommel got trounced in Operation Crusader (losing twice as many men) despite numerical parity. Couldn't take Tobruk (the first time) despite outnumbering the defenders, and suffered more losses in his head on attacks. Rommel only had one major victory in North Africa, which was Gazala (where he trounced the 8th Army). Otherwise he lost as often as he won (hence the desert war being described as a Pendulum, with victory swinging from one side to the other). Rommel was sent to North Africa to keep the Italians secure in Libya, and instead went off on his own to launch offensives (which were not his orders) for which the infrastructure did not exist to support it (neither in roads, rail or ports). Then when his offensives bogged down or he lost, he blamed everyone else for failing to supply him, despite the fact it was his freaking job as Corp commander to make sure his armies could supply their basic needs. There was a reason "10 to 1" Monty was able to earn his nickname, he actually understood logistics and built up supplies so he could mass a bigger Force then Rommel could bring along. That makes him a better commander, and one who beat Rommel every time they fought.

[@fabioq6916]

Colin Kelly I definitely would not argue with your assessment of Rommel in Africa except to say that you omit the fact that at Operation Crusader the Allies had TWICE as many tanks and TWICE as many operational aircraft. Need I remind you that in the desert such numbers of air and armoured assets are absolutely crucial. Rommel definitely over reached his brief but as a tactical leader (not strategic) he was certainly excellent (cf. his performance in WW1). There was a desire by Churchill to make the man seem great (to justify the performance of the Brits facing him) but I don't see what this has to do with my comments on Monty. And to be fair, you don't have to understand much about logistics at El Alamein when you are basically in Alexandria and have total command of the sea and your logistics base right behind you. No, Monty waited a long time to strike on NUMBERS not logistics with an overwhelming superiority in numbers in the Second battle of El Alamein. Most observers worth noting give much more praise to Auchinleck over Monty. And I note you do not refer to Monty's disastrous Caen Campaign or Market Garden. He was the worst sort of pandering, bickering and prouncing politico constantly blaming others (more so than Rommel who at least received many promises from the Italian navy whereas Monty just blamed everyone else whatever they said or did when things went wrong). Eisenhower hated Monty and he is noteworthy for being an extremely reasonable and patient man.... I agree with him. Monty was vastly overrated.

[@MrOllievirus]

No mention for the good work the RAF were doing during the Africa campaign? I feel that they are often overlooked. Monty probably suffered from high level Asperger syndrome, Eisenhower must of had the patience of a saint dealing with him. For the sake of discussion there is a reason Rommel "ran out of fuel" no?

[@wuffothewonderdog]

Three national leaders started their WW2 by personally micro-managing their armed forces. One of them eventually ceased doing that and his country won. The other two never stopped interfering, and lost. Those leaders were Churchill, Hitler and Stalin. This is a ponderous speaker and it is probably just as well that most of the audience were asleep most of the time. He ignores the fact that the 2nd battle of El Alamein was unnecessary since within a few weeks the Operation Torch landings meant that Rommell would be forced to hurry back to Tunis to halt the western invasion. The thousands of British casualties were entirely unnecessary and sacrificed for Churchill and Montgomery's vanity.

[@terrysmith9362]

a comment based on total historical ignorance amd prejudice

[@bigwoody4704]

No it was a skimpy little battle in the big picture that the major players,Germany/Russia/USA cared little about that Monty kept his distance and since churchill just fired the Auk he couldn't turn around and fire this squid - but he wanted to later.Monty was worse at commanding than you are posting

[@johnburns4017]

@wuffothewonderdog You really need to read some history.

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Name the British general who took a quarter of a million POWs in Tunisia. 20 points for the correct answer.

[@bigwoody4704]

Johnny did read the Full Monty? Did bernard give you the Lucian treatment to? Which British unit was held up for a day by 4 guns at Aalst and while their officers were drinking champagne? Which British Army unit reached Arnhem from the South? Why were British signals so bad? Who was Ground Commander for Operation Market?If you guessed Monty - WRONG!!! he chickened out unlike the Allied ParaTroopers.And your "LORD" Carrington stopped south of the bridge and would n't go forward like the 82nd wanted to

[@captainbienvenuecanadianav7060]

"Some men be never at heart's ease whilst they behold a greater than themselves." (from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.") This is Cirillo's problem with Patton.

[@yesgeo]

are you 12 years old or just a dumb ass trumper? Patton by most personal accounts was an egotistical ass ... who treated his men like shit and cannon fotter for his own ego... however, his sense for tactical movement was correct for the moment and role he played... but PLEASE don't ever mistake that for a good man !! you watched too much hollywood

[@HamburgerTime209]

10:35 “Rommel was… I don’t want to put it too strongly but quite a nazi” LMAO hell yeah get his ass, the worship of Erwin Rommel by people nowadays has always grossed me out, thanks for saying why.

[@britsareweak]

He didn’t say why, because Rommel wasn’t a Nazi. You don’t get to smear a great general just cause he kicked your country’s ass.

[@tk2394]

I HATE the guy who's like: 'this guy is now american, he voted in the US electionss!', WE'RE HERE FOR THE LECTUR NOT YOUR LIFE STORY, JUST GET OFF THE STAGE AND LET THE LECTURE BEGIN

[@HalfAssedPrepper]

Wait wait wait. You mean to tell me a British national who grew up with Monty, wrote books about Monty, and considers himself quite the fan of Monty would go out of his way in his presentation about Rommel to paint a supremely negative picture of the man to further devalue his successes, especially against Monty? Give me a break. Rommel was quite an honorable soldier, one of the few fighting for the other side. He fought bravely and again successfully in WWI and believed in a strong and proud German Military. I suppose if it's the Nazi's that will restore that pride then he would go with the flow, but a hardcore Nazi he was not.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

That makes no sense. If you're talking about an opponent AFTER the fact, you don't devalue him. You PROP HIM UP in order to make the feat of beating him seem that much more incredible. Hence why Rommel is so "legendary" in the first place. How the hell do you think this works? That's why the Germans came to believe that they were outnumbered by the Russians much more than they actually were. (They were outnumbered, of course, just not originally so disproportionately)

[@malcolmwolfgram7414]

I think you will find out that he was a Nazii in the worst sense of the word.

[@tonymccake3057]

Zzzzz Mr Hamilton best stick to writing rather than giving mumbles ... Sorry... Talks (?)

[@leslopinot3619]

No one ever had their boots licked cleaner than Monty by Hamilton and Cirillo whose presentations seemed equally focused on dinging the characters and reputations of Churchill and Patton. My how history changes. Don't like it? Cherry-pick about for sources whose social-political attitudes are more to your pleasing. I can imagine the "spirited" disagreements between Hamilton and Ambrose regarding Montgomery and the conduct of the war. Cirillo (dosing his monologue with Pattonesque vulgarity and suggestive obscenity) seemed more dedicated to talking about himself, JEB Stuart & Gettysburg and spinning scurrilous anti-Patton anecdotes. How Cirillo's assassination of Patton's reputation varies from descriptions by such historians as Victor Davis Hanson. By Cirillo's account, Patton was a pompous, vainglorious incompetent. It would seem that history, the German Army and the accounts of other historians (as Hanson) would disagree. Cirillo comes across more as a small man indignant that his military accomplishments were so miniscule that he has to "nip at the heels" of a giant like Patton.

[@brandonp3455]

Leave Cirillo out of your axe-grinding. He said nothing of the sort. He's an equal-opportunity shit-talker, Monty doesn't get special favor.

[@johnburns4017]

Patton is a US media created myth. He did *nothing* exceptional at all. Cirillo studied the man and found an opportunist, not a good general. As did Harry Yeide.

[@bigwoody4704]

When interviewed in 1945, *Heinz Guderian* , the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ *General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place* General Gunther Blumentritt : *We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies* . . . His operations impressed us enormously, probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets *From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523* "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, *Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare* The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" *Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este* After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein *I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily* said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt. 😁

[@johnburns4017]

@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Name the US general in charge of US defeat at Kassarine? 20 points for the correct answer.

[@bigwoody4704]

Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved. *Monty established nothing the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come?How come Model/Student were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November..Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actuall Field Marshall*