Xaver Scharwenka - Piano Concerto No. 3 in C sharp minor

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olla-vogala

olla-vogala

Күн бұрын

- Composer: Franz Xaver Scharwenka (6 January 1850 -- 8 December 1924)
- Orchestra: Estonian National Symphony Orchestra
- Conductor: Neeme Järvi
- Soloist: Alexander Markovich
- Year of recording: 2014
Concerto for piano & orchestra No. 3 in C sharp minor, Op. 80, written in 1889.
00:00 - I. Maestoso
14:12 - II. Adagio
20:55 - III. Allegro non troppo
All of Scharwenka’s concertos are in minor keys. The Third Piano Concerto, which followed the Second in 1889, after a substantial gap, is in the least common key of the four, C sharp minor. It opens with impressively powerful music reflective of this key signature, but in its highly romantic way it also introduces delicate and lyrical passages.
- The opening Maestoso might be said to reflect this tonality (did Scharwenka perhaps have Rachmaninoff ’s Prelude in mind?) and its stentorian tone is mightily impressive. Yet the theme is cast as a mazurka in all but name, though with the Polish dance element completely removed. Scharwenka is now in a high-romantic mood, alternating strong passages with delicate and lyrical ones. The last of these, a winsome melody introduced by flutes and clarinets, answered by the piano, and given full form by violins and cellos in octaves, molto espressivo, also features in the central piano Cadenza.
- The second movement, another Adagio, opens with a cantabile melody in the strings, and the piano’s response indicates that Chopin has been left behind in favour of something more full-bodied. For its second major entry, the piano revisits the winsome theme from the first movement, before joining with the orchestra in developing the main idea. But the music of the first movement cannot be restrained. Not only does the now less-than-winsome theme reappear, but the opening theme of the concerto comes to the fore: Liszt’s cyclic thematicism is back.
- Without a break - the music pressesforward like a through-composed song - the finale emerges, the opening theme of the first movement recast anew as a mazurka (French horn), but this time more evidently so. What starts as a dainty dance soon receives fuller treatment by the piano, but at heart the movement is a lyrical outpouring rather than a rumbustious dance. A second major episode for the solo piano (neither of them is called a cadenza) recalls the first. The closing bars come full circle to the concerto’s opening material and tone.
The concerto is dedicated: "Rafael Joseffy freundschaftlich zugeeignet", a Hungarian pianist, teacher and composer.

Пікірлер: 164
@joeboyle5864
@joeboyle5864 4 жыл бұрын
"..with Rachmaninoff in mind.." This was written when Rach was 16, unlikely to influence anyone..
@erikbreathes
@erikbreathes 3 жыл бұрын
Actually, to add to that point, he hadn't even had his Op.1 published until he was 17
@erikbreathes
@erikbreathes 3 жыл бұрын
CORRECTION: it would appear that the description is wrong and this was written in 1898/99, when Rachmaninoff was in his late twenties
@sleort42
@sleort42 3 жыл бұрын
@@erikbreathes Correct Hysterikal
@donnytello1544
@donnytello1544 3 жыл бұрын
I feel like ppl make very vague comparisons to rachmaninoff. Being russian doesn’t make them similar, in fact rachmaninoff was very different from most of his colleagues or idols, such as Tchaikovsky or scriabin, or even Stravinsky
@donnytello1544
@donnytello1544 3 жыл бұрын
this composition sounds nothing like something rachmaninoff would write, and the his execution of the melody is very different, more like Scriabin or atterburg
@teoleonov
@teoleonov 7 жыл бұрын
Attention! This wonderful music was written in 1889... How could the author imitate the Rachmaninov's Prelude which wasn't even composed? ..........”Hats off, gentlemen, a genius”.
@teoleonov
@teoleonov 7 жыл бұрын
I referred to this explication text posted above: @- The opening Maestoso might be said to reflect this tonality (did Scharwenka perhaps have Rachmaninoff ’s Prelude in mind?) and its stentorian tone is mightily impressive.@
@erikbreathes
@erikbreathes 3 жыл бұрын
Description has a typo. This was written in 1898/99 not 1889
@ScriabinistheGOAT24
@ScriabinistheGOAT24 Жыл бұрын
How is nobody commenting about this theme!!! 23:41 (24:27) or 28:13 (28:59). It's literally the most passionately gorgeous melody I've ever heard!
@bobschaaf2549
@bobschaaf2549 5 ай бұрын
Perhaps because most people can't make it to 23:41. Because of your comment, I jumped to that point. Now I'm jumping out to something less schmalzy.
@IEEMAZ_Convoluted_14.2.8.5
@IEEMAZ_Convoluted_14.2.8.5 Ай бұрын
@@bobschaaf2549 that is just so sad
@Merken.Sideral
@Merken.Sideral 7 жыл бұрын
Since I discovered F. Xaver Scharwenka I have wondered how it is possible that he is not a recognized composer at the level of the greatest...
@olla-vogala4090
@olla-vogala4090 7 жыл бұрын
Underexposure. The same reason that classical music in general isn't one of the most popular genres, underexposure of the music to people.
@Lebarondesamedi
@Lebarondesamedi 7 жыл бұрын
maybe because the greatest composers we know are not all those who really were, and maybe because we know too many who weren't great composers, but the world thinks they are....
@efs797
@efs797 3 жыл бұрын
Underexposure (sometimes interchangeable with underrepresentation) can happen to great composers for multiple reasons. Lilli Boulanger is clearly one of a triumvirate of French orchestration and composition masters of her era but she is rarely mentioned alongside Ravel and Debussy, her peers. Sharwenka and Boulanger show that different reasons cause a deserving composer not to get the circulation their work merits. This is worth discussing because some ensembles have in turn dedicated themselves to correcting this but exacerbate underexposure (and in so doing, sometimes exacerbate historical wrongs) by serving only one possible reason for underrepresentation. In other words we'll program Boulanger but not Sharwenka on principle. Ensembles willing to program either best serve the public who fund their activities by embracing a broader mission of correcting undercirculation of great (underexposed, underrepresented) works.
@sebastian-benedictflore
@sebastian-benedictflore 2 жыл бұрын
He was quite popular in his day. His piano concerto 1 and 4 were extremely loved by almost all. Somehow, some things just fade into obscurity, even the much more famous Mendelssohn Piano Concerti were adored at the time of the composer and are a little underplayed in this day and age.
@sebastian-benedictflore
@sebastian-benedictflore 2 жыл бұрын
@@mr.p5446 ngl, that's a load of horse shit.
@firoza8994
@firoza8994 2 жыл бұрын
ive listened to this concerto almost daily for over a month. its one of the most breathtaking pieces ive ever heard. Its like rachmaninoff and scriabin before rachmaninoff and scriabin, full of intensely lyrical pathos and moments of grandiose rage. the way the material is transformed throughout the piece is genius.
@pianohaus
@pianohaus Жыл бұрын
Pure Virtuosity a must for piano concert lovers
@TheLordgaga12
@TheLordgaga12 8 жыл бұрын
OMG I love this concert, i want to play someday, i play the first one in a few months.
@mrsnegy6001
@mrsnegy6001 Жыл бұрын
Fireworks of beauty and power.
@kokonssp
@kokonssp 3 жыл бұрын
masterpiece that makes us feel a reminiscence of romance
@angelogarcia4220
@angelogarcia4220 6 жыл бұрын
I love Shawarmanka.
@franciscofragoeiro5229
@franciscofragoeiro5229 4 жыл бұрын
AHAHAHAH
@erikbreathes
@erikbreathes 3 жыл бұрын
@COrNotToC i think sarcasm was employed here.
@alibaghirov4503
@alibaghirov4503 4 жыл бұрын
16:45 Really loved the interpretation,how it gets from "pianissimo" to "fortissimo" and sounds pationately at 16:51 Reminds me Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto in c-minor. Great work!
@PeterLunowPL
@PeterLunowPL 5 жыл бұрын
the more I listen the more I like it !
@danielharrington4342
@danielharrington4342 3 жыл бұрын
I think that out of all the Scharwenka's concertos, this one is the most solemn, majestic, and melodic. As a matter of fact it's exceptionally beautiful. Its circular structure also makes it more enjoyable as the composer really knew how to utilize his central theme and melodic lines. I can see the possible influence of this work on Moszkowski's Second Concerto and Rachmaninoff's Preludes. In my opinion, this is really a neglected masterpiece, and should be appreciated more. However, to be honest, this is an absurdly difficult concerto with all the crazy octave and chord jumping, a reason why I think this work is not performed more often.
@graydusk1039
@graydusk1039 Жыл бұрын
honestly difficulty isnt issue as much now a days considering all the other crazy peices out there its just neglected ig
@brianknapp8645
@brianknapp8645 10 ай бұрын
It's highly doubtful that this concerto was influenced by Rachmaninoff as he had just started study at the conservatory in St. Petersburg in 1885 and was probably not well known around Europe yet.
@russelldeitch5765
@russelldeitch5765 10 ай бұрын
​@@brianknapp8645Agreed. As said before... this came first.
@vijaykrishnan7797
@vijaykrishnan7797 6 ай бұрын
Thank you that person who reminded me to listen again , remind me again after a long while
@r0mmm
@r0mmm 3 жыл бұрын
That is epic beginning...owh mai gaaawd
@e.hutchence-composer8203
@e.hutchence-composer8203 4 жыл бұрын
As much as I love and enjoy the music of the ‘common great’ composers and revere them, it is a real tragedy that composers such as Scharwenka have fallen into obscurity. I literally just finished listening to Amy Beach’s C# minor Piano Concerto and thoroughly enjoyed it. There should be a real effort to try and save some of these composers from becoming little more than archived trifles which are only used in ‘discovery concerts’. There is something to behold in each composer’s work, regardless of their status when it comes to ranking ‘the greatest composers’.
@jorgefraile218
@jorgefraile218 2 жыл бұрын
She's a great and genius composer indeed!
@r0mmm
@r0mmm 2 жыл бұрын
I want to recommend you the imo best piano concerto out there: Kurt Atterberg - Pianoconcerto in Bflat-Minor. The NDR version is the best one. Go listen to it!
@dewittk9404
@dewittk9404 2 жыл бұрын
@@r0mmm Listening now. Enjoying.
@Whatismusic123
@Whatismusic123 Жыл бұрын
Just because you enjoy these terrible attempts at music, doesn't mean they're any good.
@leonardkuhn1124
@leonardkuhn1124 6 жыл бұрын
Gorgeous
@tdgvl
@tdgvl 4 жыл бұрын
The weird syncopated triplets in the final bars are very unusual but sound very original and imposing. Very interesting piece, thank you for sharing!
@fulviopolce9785
@fulviopolce9785 5 жыл бұрын
Bellissimo concerto di fine ottocento.Meravigliosamente romantico l'Andante ma tutto è perfettamente equilibrato tra piano e orchestra.Tecnica e ispirazione....Uno dei migliori concerti che abbia sentito.
@bowerdw
@bowerdw 5 жыл бұрын
Top notch work.
@yowzephyr
@yowzephyr 3 жыл бұрын
0:05 is a good place to start. ^
@Souls_p_
@Souls_p_ Жыл бұрын
Highly underrated. Astounding!
@ziegunerweiser
@ziegunerweiser 8 жыл бұрын
Ha that's so funny I think I like this one the best!
@larrykolber7877
@larrykolber7877 3 жыл бұрын
I agree with you It am thinking of playing it
@derleopard2
@derleopard2 8 жыл бұрын
cyclic thematicism, me gusta.
@Tuxster3
@Tuxster3 Жыл бұрын
I'll just go ahead and say it. I would put this piano concerto up against ANY piano concerto written by the likes of Brahms, Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninoff. It is a brilliant piece, full of color and verve and virtuosity!
@hermanhillyrottier-jassies4901
@hermanhillyrottier-jassies4901 Жыл бұрын
FANTASTIC.
@MrMoritz76
@MrMoritz76 5 жыл бұрын
Probably the single most underrated piano concert ever... at least Morit's Moskowsky got more attention, even his recently discovered Op 3. (first piano concerto) is more played on KZbin than this gem.
@andrewpetersen5272
@andrewpetersen5272 5 жыл бұрын
I think the op. 3 is something unto itself. I support your comment though!
@bennyksmusicalworld
@bennyksmusicalworld 4 жыл бұрын
Moszkowski No. 2 is another underrated gem :)
@andrewpetersen5272
@andrewpetersen5272 4 жыл бұрын
@Józef Hofmann I agree wholeheartedly. This is music for a novel yet to be written.
@r0mmm
@r0mmm 2 жыл бұрын
C'mon, Atterberg Pianoconcerto is very underrated too!!!
@sebastian-benedictflore
@sebastian-benedictflore 2 жыл бұрын
Scharwenka 1 and 4 have always been much more popular than 2 or 3 do this really is some of the most obscure music.
@user-uu4wg7is5w
@user-uu4wg7is5w 4 ай бұрын
Beautiful ❤️😊!
@ralfsteinhage1310
@ralfsteinhage1310 5 жыл бұрын
wow Bravo
@harryandruschak2843
@harryandruschak2843 8 жыл бұрын
Impressed :)
@jefferygong6753
@jefferygong6753 2 ай бұрын
The last few notes of the first theme sounds like Brahms' Quintet. That was published two decades before this piece. Just a thought, anyone?
@emilyhutjes
@emilyhutjes 8 ай бұрын
After listening to 1,2 and 4 now NO: 3. They are all glorious. Thank you very much. 🌷🌷🌷(Holland) I have put No: 1 and 4 on Face-Book. I hope you don't mind sir.
@dariuszrybacki5520
@dariuszrybacki5520 Жыл бұрын
This concerto, as well as Scharwenka's concertos number 4 and 2, are equally good as those of Brahms, Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky. They stand at the same superb level. Full stop.
@alanbash2921
@alanbash2921 8 ай бұрын
Masterpiece 📣📣📣📣📣📣📣
@patoxalapa617
@patoxalapa617 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for uploading. It's a beautiful piece. Do you have this score in PDF? The one of IMSLP is not as clean as this :(
@vijaykrishnan7797
@vijaykrishnan7797 2 жыл бұрын
Remind me to come back and listen this
@kieuucanh1220
@kieuucanh1220 6 ай бұрын
here is your reminder
@vijaykrishnan7797
@vijaykrishnan7797 6 ай бұрын
@@kieuucanh1220 thanks
@Destoyerful
@Destoyerful 8 жыл бұрын
So beautiful!! I love the Rachmaninoff Textures and piano writing :) It is so difficult to find a decent Piano Concerto in this Key :)
@zanexiao4488
@zanexiao4488 6 жыл бұрын
The Rimsky-Korsakov!
@NicolasGilfillan
@NicolasGilfillan 5 күн бұрын
Everyone gangster until the piano pulls out FOUR STAVES!!!
@db8able2
@db8able2 2 ай бұрын
20:00 did the pianist add some extra notes in the treble to “second” the main theme the orchestra is playing? It sounds beautiful but I can’t connect his playing to the score. Hearing some accented G#, A, and Bs. Just brilliant.
@mrsnegy6001
@mrsnegy6001 Жыл бұрын
About Rahmaninov's influence ::) I wonder if he heard this concerto, or even knew about it.
@MarconildoViegas1
@MarconildoViegas1 2 жыл бұрын
Muito lindoooo.
@user-co5fq4lv4e
@user-co5fq4lv4e Жыл бұрын
Музыка-единственное Утешение в минуты печали. Что ты делаешь с сердцем человека???!!! Она и в моем СЕРДЦЕ.
@fannyjemwong
@fannyjemwong 3 жыл бұрын
precioso
@gigogrom216
@gigogrom216 3 жыл бұрын
у Оркестра два стана, а у ф-но 4, где ещё такое можно увидеть?
@user-lj1sc9bs4t
@user-lj1sc9bs4t 2 жыл бұрын
素晴らしいとしか言いようがない...
@wellingtonsoaresdacosta5635
@wellingtonsoaresdacosta5635 5 ай бұрын
Ótimo.
@MagierMondMax
@MagierMondMax 4 жыл бұрын
Unfortunatly the dating 1889 is an widespread error. Scharwenka startet the sketch for his third piano concerto in Summer 1898 not 1889. The concerto was premiered on january 27th 1899. Sources like Wikipedia and IMSLP got it wrong on that point.
@jamesmclaughlin272
@jamesmclaughlin272 4 жыл бұрын
Do you have a source for him starting the sketch and for the premier as well? The Monthly Musical Record Vol. 29 mentions the premier in the March 1st catalogue but doesn't give a date so it obviously had to have premiered in Berlin, somewhere in the first quarter of 1899.
@Quotenwagnerianer
@Quotenwagnerianer 4 жыл бұрын
January 1899.
@marcalexandrefontenay9801
@marcalexandrefontenay9801 Жыл бұрын
De la veine de Rachmaninoff , ce concerto très technique et virtuose ne manque pas de souffle même s’il tourne en rond ! Ancien enregistrement détestable .
@hyseo1121
@hyseo1121 3 жыл бұрын
Cyclic use of main theme which opens the work is notable.
@erikbreathes
@erikbreathes 3 жыл бұрын
Dont u hate it when after exactly every 10 minutes youtube puts an ad in the video... if your gonna disrupt the music, at least do it between the movements
@H5subway5707
@H5subway5707 4 жыл бұрын
29:00
@MrMoritz76
@MrMoritz76 3 жыл бұрын
I've played this concerto, and this part and onwards exactly was where I started, and I loved it so much, that I finished the whole piece over a few months... the ending of this concerto, the chords, melody... all of it.. just, amazing.
@rogernortman9219
@rogernortman9219 5 жыл бұрын
Touch of anger, too.
@darrylschultz9311
@darrylschultz9311 5 жыл бұрын
Was it something I said...?
@erikrobinson2547
@erikrobinson2547 4 жыл бұрын
The start sounds like Star wars combined with Rachmaninov to me.
@whonnyjang8448
@whonnyjang8448 2 жыл бұрын
4:04, 16:18, 18:01, 28:14
@themusicalgerbil192
@themusicalgerbil192 8 жыл бұрын
How could Scharwenka have had Rachmaninoff's prelude in mind if it hadn't been written yet?
@olla-vogala4090
@olla-vogala4090 8 жыл бұрын
+Gerbil Jim Ah yes, you're right... well, perhaps it was the other way around then ;)
@themusicalgerbil192
@themusicalgerbil192 5 жыл бұрын
@@olla-vogala4090 Hello again, it turns out that can't be possible either, as whilst the work was written in 1889, it wasn't published until 10 years later, by which time Rachmaninoff's Op. 3 had already been composed.
@darrylschultz9311
@darrylschultz9311 5 жыл бұрын
@@themusicalgerbil192 perhaps late one night Rachmaninoff snuck into where Scharwenka kept this concerto and,quiet as a mouse, he copied it out as quickly as he could before Scharwenka woke up and asked him for his autograph.
@OpalBerries
@OpalBerries 5 жыл бұрын
Hey, classical listener here! why the *fuck* are there ads on this? Hmm?
@franciscofragoeiro5229
@franciscofragoeiro5229 4 жыл бұрын
The uploadee isn't to blame. The recording isn't their property, so, whoever recorded it has the right to put ads on it. Use AdBlock.
@Index_Kim
@Index_Kim 2 жыл бұрын
시작 0:06
@hermanhillyrottier-jassies4901
@hermanhillyrottier-jassies4901 2 жыл бұрын
A real discovery such a pity his music is seldom performed.
@randiey95
@randiey95 3 жыл бұрын
31:10
@Andrew-sw1cv
@Andrew-sw1cv 5 ай бұрын
12:35 bruh
@erikbreathes
@erikbreathes 3 жыл бұрын
Oh my god why isnt every romanticism aficionado fanboying/-girling/-diversing over this guy he is insanely good
@hans-jorgciesinski8878
@hans-jorgciesinski8878 8 ай бұрын
Warum wird dieser erstaunliche Komponist heute so ignoriert?
@Xyriak
@Xyriak Ай бұрын
It sounds like Moszkowski
@publiovirgilio2238
@publiovirgilio2238 2 жыл бұрын
10:35 27:13
@JJC333
@JJC333 2 жыл бұрын
I think this piece sounds like Chopin would live longer about 79 years old to compose a concerto.
@camilohiche4475
@camilohiche4475 3 жыл бұрын
Please watch this at the lowest quality only (144p) since it's just for the music, which is much more ecologically responsible than at a higher rate. Watching this at 240p (which is unnecessary for listening purposes), will increase the bandwith by double to almost tenfold! At 1080 the bandwith is augmented by a factor of 100! The use of digital technology accounts for 4% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions, as much as the emissions from the world's truck fleet. Of that, a BIG part comes from livestreaming videos, mainly 3 sources : KZbin, Netlfix and porn. Let's enjoy this beautiful music by being aware and responsible, doing our little part in decreasing our carbon footprint and protecting this wonderful planet for the generations to come.
@sananton2821
@sananton2821 Жыл бұрын
lmao
@davebemis3501
@davebemis3501 Жыл бұрын
Poor little woke snowflake
@vijaykrishnan7797
@vijaykrishnan7797 6 ай бұрын
Im just saving data not caring about the environment directly
@rogernortman9219
@rogernortman9219 4 жыл бұрын
This is a well-written concerto, but emotionally it is hard-bitten and hifghly negative.
@steveegallo3384
@steveegallo3384 4 жыл бұрын
Roger Nortman -- Oh....then you won't like Prokofiev's 5th either....Richter's reading is superb!
@rogernortman9219
@rogernortman9219 4 жыл бұрын
Steve, I don't like Prokofievv, perioed. I like music that is WARM and FRIENDLY! Miaskovsky was one of the few xomposers who expressed negat!ive emotions that are musically palpable to me. The end syms. of Tschaikowsky, Dvorak, Mahler and even Bruckner, don't ennoble; they just drag me down in rgeir miasma and depressed quagmire
@rogernortman9219
@rogernortman9219 4 жыл бұрын
and depressed quagmire. Nielsen haqd the right idea in his 6th, poke fun at life as a farce! Rubinstein, also, more subyly in his 6th. Tschakowsky's 6th is the worst piece of decadent shit written in the whole 19th Cent!
@steveegallo3384
@steveegallo3384 4 жыл бұрын
@@rogernortman9219 -- I can picture you now, in some remote alpine Swiss asylum with a nice view of the Eiger's north pass, in repose on a day-bed when, on occasion, a nurse forgets to administer your Prozac, and you explode with paroxysms of balderdash...until....exhausted....you slip into something more comfortable again....like a coma.....
@msmo105
@msmo105 4 жыл бұрын
That's weirding me out, how can you call Tchaikovsky 6th Symph. a "shit". You might not like it very much, nevertheless it is a phenomenal piece of music, the one we all can look up to.
@mosz1854
@mosz1854 8 жыл бұрын
This concerto is less interesting than his other concertos~
@olla-vogala4090
@olla-vogala4090 8 жыл бұрын
Would you mind responding to my reply on your first comment about Moskowski's piano concerto?
@Terativ
@Terativ 7 жыл бұрын
no I think it's one of the best
@Terativ
@Terativ 7 жыл бұрын
no it really isn't
@PeterLunowPL
@PeterLunowPL 6 жыл бұрын
and who are you to decide?
@rogernortman9219
@rogernortman9219 5 жыл бұрын
In contrast to his first 2, I've found this concerto rather hard-bitten and cold, rather on the negative side. It's well written but not that enjoyable.
@petersimon5231
@petersimon5231 5 жыл бұрын
I can enjoy that a lot more than most other piano concertos and don't find it cold or anything. Those adjectives, and others like warm, cheerful, dark etc. mostly come to mind because people are not better-equipped with adjective for music - they, we, can't do better than turn to arts and other fields to explain its quality. And those adjectives are more measurable. But most of it is nonsense. Like reverential, religious ect., which I, not brought up in any religious faith, have never felt. My adjectives for this, though, would be heroic, stentorian as someone here said, but in turn even charming (think of the 3rd movement, e.g.), so I can also do no better. One thing, I think, is certain: enjoyment of music depends both on upbringing and individual taste. Enjoy what you like!
@johannsebastienbach
@johannsebastienbach Жыл бұрын
Sadness is part of emotion and music is supposed to bring it
@rogernortman9219
@rogernortman9219 4 жыл бұрын
In response to Steve Gallo's remarks, ever hear of cyber bullying and teasing? How dare this individual psychoanalyze a total stranger over personal, subjective musical taste! I ought to report Mr. Gallo to KZbin for harassment. My comments were very specific. Any decent person would relate to the substance, not pass judkment on a total stranger. Betcha Mr. Gallo is a Trump supporter!
@jacekkrzywicki195
@jacekkrzywicki195 Жыл бұрын
What does the politics have to music???
@jacksonvillejohn9462
@jacksonvillejohn9462 Жыл бұрын
How can someone copy someone who came after said person???
@adjermanovic
@adjermanovic 6 жыл бұрын
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