XC Race Hardtails Suck as Everyday Trail Bikes: Here's Why - Hardtail Party

[@Freakphoto]

Are you trying to talk yourself out of getting a sweet XC race bike?

[@Montblanc1986]

Depends on the trail system you have. You don't get to pick the bike your trail system does.

[@ericdevecchis2761]

Nothing is more true about biking. Where will it be ridden......

[@hardtailparty]

I'd like to make a distinction here. I'm not anti xc. I actually love riding XC. I think XC bikes are great and quite often the best bike for some local trails. However, XC RACE bikes are a different story entirely. Just like how race cars make lousy daily drivers, race xc bikes make lousy daily riders.

[@mountainlessmtb9940]

I'm not anti hard tail because there is always a party in the mountains 😂 plus I love my ridged fat bike most of the time🤘

[@chrisgrah99]

How you checked out the Norco revolver he 120? Geo looks fun for a race rig.

[@TakeItEazy3]

does the dv9 suck too for everyday trails?

[@RobS123]

What makes a XC hardtail a XC RACE bike? Do you think the Trek X-Caliber line is a RACE bike? I am looking for a bike for commuting that's probably 60% road, 40% easy to moderate trails and a little gravel roads thrown in. I also ride occasionally with my son of more challenging trails, but try not to push the downhill speeds too much. I'm coming from an ancient Univega everyone calls Godzilla because it's a heavy beast.

[@fernandoguerrero2895]

I like the way you explain things, very easy to understand. I have seen a couple of your videos and now I understand more about different bike styles than watching almost 10 videos in other channels

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks Fernando.

[@chrisgrah99]

My goto bike is a carbon trek procaliber 9.6. I live in the Rocky Mountain foothills and ride it everywhere. It handles better than any bike I’ve owned. Smooth and confident.

[@rafaelgodoy3703]

Impressive bike, planning on changing the handlebar for a wider one though

[@mymusic2515]

I'm thinking of getting the 2021 9.7 and where ride is more forgiving, so your comments are encouraging

[@rafaelgodoy3703]

@@mymusic2515 amazing bike for sure. This year's model is a big improvement over the last one, wich is a lot to say! You will be surprised.

[@mymusic2515]

@@rafaelgodoy3703 How about as a trial bike? Looking at Spark 920, Top Fuel 9.8 or the Procaliber 9.7 A’s love hardtails

[@rafaelgodoy3703]

if it was my decision, i'd go for the top fuel. Just changed my procaliber for an Epic Evo and tested it today! Would never go back. I think the Epic Evo and the Top Fuel have very similar behavior: little to no compromise on the uphills but a several advantage going down. Anyways, the spark should be pretty good too but i think the top fuel looks better hahahah

[@ByronWWW]

I went from an all mountain (rocky mountain slayer) to an xc hardtail (scale 710 hmx) and the racey hardtail is far more fun most of the time and is still relaxed enough to do all day rides. My local trail loop takes 1.5 hours at full gas, hardtail does leave you quite beat up after - requires a lot of focus and it's a bumpy ride but very satisfying compared to being way over biked for the terrain before.

[@kubagajda7347]

I might be somewhat crazy, but owning a full on XC bike is a completed dream of mine. Not because I race, but because I just love it's concept and purpouse. To me it's just like owning the most harcore, stiff and uncomfortable race car possible - McLaren Senna f.ex. :D I've grown to a state now when I actually can't get on with anything other than XC anymore. This is stupid to some, but I just love how uncompromising, difficult to handle, uncomfortable and stiff my bike is. And how I get to master it instead of going the easy route.

[@hardtailparty]

I like the way you describe it here. You're in the category of those who know what they're getting. I have a lot of newer/intermediate riders who think they need the race version of every bike. Maybe it's the pull of the pros, maybe it's the weight claims, maybe it's the desire to have the best of the best. For those who know better (like you) and want one anyway, I say GO FOR IT!

[@markvalentine7264]

Ya man! It’s fun to be undergunned and underpinned!

[@luvinfunvan]

@@markvalentine7264 Arguably that would be true riding a hardtail vs a full suspension bike too... Which this whole channel is based on! :)

[@donkeller6399]

Well spoke/written Kuba - you’re not crazy (I am 😂) as you nail the allure of managing a race whippet on single track hellstorm. It’s a rush! Cheers.

[@TheTrailRabbit]

Never heard anyone say their XC bike was difficult to handle 🤔 difficult compared to what?

[@anthonywalters7434]

I’ve been using a low end one for everything and it’s worked but I think I could use a more trail focused bike. That being said slapping a short stem and increasing my travel helped make it more stable and fun.

[@stephmoney43]

My dv9 is an Xc race bike. I'll admit out of the box it's a bit harsh but ever since I've tossed on a pair of 2.6 maxxis recons it has completely changed the feel of the bike. Those 2.6 tires grip hard when going downhill it's like night and day when compared to the 2.25. Also it just makes the bike so much more compliant. With this setup I feel like you get the best of both worlds. Carbon stiffness with the playfulness of 2.6 tires. Imo it's a match made in heaven.

[@johnnydoe66]

Some of the first things I ask someone who approaches me about a bike purchase is; 1st How serious do you think you're going to be about riding, 2nd What type of riding do you expect to be doing, and 3rd How much money are you willing to spend? I get numerous new riders who over estimate their intent. Too many let the sales guy talk them into over biking and they end up not being happy, then just quit riding

[@marcg1043]

Thank you for this clear and well structured explanation. Amongst the 50 videos on this topic (mostly just useless waffle), yours really stands out as knowledgable and to the point.

[@hananas2]

Great video! I'm glad you still make the point about XC bikes being the right bike for some people/trails. In my case I bought a trail bike a few years ago but am now saving up for a Specialized Chisel because that's actually the correct bike for my area. I like that it has the right geometry for me to put a shorter stem and bars with a little rise on, that way it should be comfortable, agile and fun yet fast bike.

[@anthsilk1]

I took a 140mm hardtail to western MI and immediately wished I was on my old Epic I think it can depend on the geographic region. Sandy gradual grades without rock gardens -> XC

[@mikekramer2296]

I made the mistake of buying an XC hardtail as my first bike. I spent most of my time going over the bars and it turned me off of hardtails. Only now, 6 or 7 years later, have I realized that hardtails can have aggressive geometry and be every bit the trail bike that FS bikes can be.

[@markvalentine7264]

Man I want to get out to Steve’s party in the mountains! Yes, I can say from personal experience. I felt more confident and had a lot of fun on my Chameleon after riding an XC bike. I was able to hit the dropper, wider tires, better geo, and hit jumps and go to the Pump-Track. In fact, I know a lot of people who even race XC on the Chameleons. After sending a 40ft cliff and breaking my arm, and receiving a prosthetic piece to hold things together, I went back to the XC bike. And knowing my style of riding would change, going with the HighBall was a bike that would suit the type of riding I would be doing from now on. I would love to hear Steve’s thoughts on the “best XC bike for the everyday rider.” A bike that can have fun, but still suit a proper XC Race. Thanks Steve love the Hardtail!

[@hardtailparty]

That would be a great video topic one day. I'm not an XC racer, so I don't feel super qualified for that, but I think there are some great XC bikes out there. I'd just avoid the high-end racing bikes for an everyday trail machine.

[@markvalentine7264]

hardtail party thanks for replying! So dope! Yeah that would be cool to see! I think it would be a great video/perspective coming from you! That would be a rad video! Looking for that quiver killer bike!

[@hardtailparty]

@@markvalentine7264 I feel like I've got a quiver killer with my paradox and middle child ti.

[@ncmtb7248]

Love the chameleon, just not the best xc rig. 😂. Still managed to do pretty good at a few xc races. The Highball is also a sweet bike. Ridden both extensively

[@FanDi-m5h]

+1 it would be great that If you can talk about everyday XC bikes. Maybe the Chisel or x/pro caliber can be a start?

[@mountainlessmtb9940]

Great video🔥the only racing im doing is when my buddy says last one to the jeep buys lunch😂🤘

[@rufuswainwright8171]

I hold my hands up to being a little bit of a psychopath. Love the directness of my Trek Procaliber SL, 21lbs of XC weapon. Charging & whooping past guys on their expensive squishy Yeti’s and E-Bikes. Riding when others are pushing. I know it’s not for everyone. Though recently I did succumb to a dropper post (going soft) Watching, learning & loving your channel... my head has been turned. I think I’ll be trying a Cotic BFe / Solaris Max when they get new stock.

[@hardtailparty]

The solarismax should be in stock (I believe)

[@deanemberley2333]

Light bikes aren’t always the best bikes. So you are charging past trail bikes on technical downs? I call BS. As Steve says they just aren’t good all around bikes for general riding. Come ride where I live. anyone on an XC bike can’t handle the tougher trails and they end up selling them. . Sounds to me like you are only convincing yourself.

[@MrBig617]

@@deanemberley2333 I own a trail bike and a xc race bike. Even on the technical descents, I'm faster on my race bike, and it's more fun. I never would have guess it before I bought the race bike, but I was proven wrong.

[@hardtailparty]

Which bikes, and where do you live? Not disagreeing, just curious about the context around that statement. Where I live, an xc bike simply can't ride 20% of the trails.

[@rufuswainwright8171]

I live in Lancashire, England. With the Peak & Lake District close by. We have lots of Bridleways (Horse/Bike/Walkers) and Trail centres. I will be the first to admit that I will get smoked on a technical downhill, if started at the same time. But as Steve says it’s the climbs that these things come into their own. Though over the years the trails and what/where we can ride has changed (Man made trail centres). And that’s the reason I’d be very tempted to try a slacker hard tail. The terrain has become more technical and there are times I struggle. The dropper post has made a massive difference to what I can ride.

[@gregroles69]

If you crossover from road, an XC 29er is an easy swap, but you need to take it easy on the jumps and technical obstacles, and treat the bike with a bit of care. If you come more from the BMX, jumping side of things, a typical "all-mountain" bike is absolutely the way to go. It all depends what you are used to, and what you are going to typically ride. An "all-mountain" bike on an average trail is going to be much faster for the average rider, as you can just blast through things, this is the mistake people often make thinking they will be faster on a "race" bike. Spot on video.

[@arkayokay]

Back to the party: hard tail bikes + hard tyres + hard riders = xc race bikes and right back to the original World cup riding. Where I live in the UK we have a world cup trail and it is very rare for anyone to do the climb ( and the racers did it twice). There's a YT video of a guy riding the world cup but no climb footage which sums it up! The best bike is always the one that gives you the best memories.

[@adventuresona700dollarhard5]

"meant to hammer it out for those four hours and be the fastest on the track." "all that power transfer" "Lighter is better" Still not understanding why this isn't the best choice. 😂

[@michiganstate149]

Comfort/durability/value generally isn't there

[@certifiedlawnpros]

@@michiganstate149 YOLO slam it down it hammer it down 🤘

[@sonnybocalajr.725]

I own a full on XC race bike, as this fits my kind of riding. And it's true that they are crazy stiff and very fast when you put the hammer down. Lucky the bike that I currently own is still comfortable for the type trails that I ride.

[@UrbanFishing-MTB]

What kind of bike u use for xc?

[@sonnybocalajr.725]

@@UrbanFishing-MTB A mid spec canyon Exceed

[@osafoca]

@@sonnybocalajr.725 I recently bought a new 2023 procaliber 9.7 (at a nice discount as they are clearing them all out) as a huuuge upgrade from a 23 year old trek mtb. I did a lot of research beforehand and actually was deciding between a gravel bike and an xc hardtail. Luckily I went the XC route because now I'm finding myself riding 30% paved bike paths, 60% off-road climbs and paths, and 10% downhill trails. I love the bike but there sure seem to be so many options nowadays. The epic evo or supercaliber seem like ideal bikes for my use, but I do love the idea of less maintenance on the procaliber with the lack of rear shock, and so far I find it quite comfortable, it is aggressive though but it climbs so well! Main upgrade I'm considering at some point would be a dropper post.

[@CL-dh2mf]

"You want something thats not Specialized."😂😉 You made good points as always. 👍 I will take my hardcore trail HT (Whyte 905) with light wheels and tires to an XC Marathon this year and see if I can beat my last years time on an gravel bike. Cheers from Germany!

[@alisdairSH]

A year late, but anyway... what would you pick for an all-around hardtail that leaned to the race-y end of the spectrum (vs the enduro end). Metal frame, 120-130mm fork, newer geo. Esker Japhy? Cotic Solaris? Something else? Kona Honzo looks close, but designed around 140 fork, so not sure? Frame or complete, ideally with something like a GX Eagle or XT build.

[@bethrudolph2006]

My favorite bike I have owned is a Pivot Les single speed. Yes, it is a race bike, however, I built it up as a trail whippet at 22 lbs. with a 120 fork, and a dropper. It is absolutely perfect for the mostly XC trails closest to my house! The 120 up front and dropper gives it just enough party to hit drops and more rocky sections of trail out here in Vegas, but the lightweight and comfortable carbon frame makes it easy to pedal for miles and miles. This bike would not be as much fun set up in hard-core XC mode with a 100mm fork, high post and skinnier tires. A slacker head tube angle would be nice, but its not bad with the longer fork and for most of what I ride it on out here. It definitely makes tamer trails I've ridden for years on my full suspension trail bike come to life in a whole new way!

[@graffix11us]

So true, coming from an XC race background, it takes a lot of skill to ride an XC rig on tougher trails. I still have my race bike but also an all mountain rig and my single speed. Each great in their own way but if you can only have one bike it should be more middle of the road.

[@vivek_v]

"Starting" off on an XC race hardtail definitely gave me an ego boost when I found out that I was lightning fast on the climbs ;) But then 8 months later after quite possibly way too much practicing skills on a bike, I found that I could kind of keep up with people on enduro full sus bikes on sections of trails that wouldn't look out of place at an EWS. But I was also much more experienced than the average newbie mountain biker getting their first bike. I can attribute the vast majority of my skill starting off on such a difficult bike to handle. I definitely thank myself for it in retrospect now that I have moved on to a much more capable bike, but I'm not sure if my back and wrists would agree. That said, unless you are a younger person (without joint issues), riding an XC hardtail on hard trails would definitely help you improve as a rider. But you might as well borrow an XC bike instead of buying one. That said, I also bought my XC hardtail with intentions of racing with it. But then COVID happened and I'm out of luck with racing until the races re-open

[@Dark__Thoughts]

Even the inexpensive XC bikes already have a pretty aggressive seating position, which you should really think hard if you want that when you plan to use your bike for a lot of things or longer rides - they are not meant to be comfortable, but efficient on your pedaling / power transfer. I think the cross country term is a little deceiving for people who look into mountain biking too. It kinda implies that the bikes are great in varying terrain, like they are some kind of all rounder that do well in all sort of scenarios. But they are actually very specialized bikes, and even the cheap models usually share the same type of race optimized geometry of the more expensive models, but are often advertised as cheapish entry bikes. I am speaking about the below 1k budget range here, where a lot of the bikes still come with spring forks or even rim brakes, or very cheap disc brakes. Try to actually find aggressive, slack hardtails in that price range, there aren't a whole lot, most of them start at about 1,2k (speaking in Euros here btw) and get quickly very expensive if you want a dropper post and some more worthy gear on them. Now, considering that you want to have at least a decent frame, with a geometry that suits your needs, I'd definitely make sure to pay very good attention to that and if it really is what you want out of it. Parts can be added and upgraded over time, but a new frame usually means a new bike too, for most people anyway.

[@hardtailparty]

Spot on. It's sad that there aren't many budget (sub $1k) bikes with more modern non-xc geo. I also agree with the cross-country nomenclature, it makes a bike feel like an SUV that does everything well.

[@robertturnip7850]

I suspect manufacturers think that most people buying these budget bikes are going to use them for commuting or very light trail riding. A bike which is designed for proper trail riding would need better components to complement the frame, therefore taking it out of the budget category.

[@mircea5013]

@@robertturnip7850 But.. that's what most people buying these bikes ARE going to use them for. At least in my area. Everyone buys XC. Everyone rides it in the city, and takes it so some light forest trails on weekends.. And I mean light. They use them for everything. Aren't they actually good for everything? I mean, they're light, they have 2.2/2.25 tires which are much better than 2.4/2.6 in these conditions, right? And then you can take it offroad granny-style and it works. Is an aggressive trail bike going to do all these things better? I'm asking, but I'm struggling to see how a 14-15kg bike would go nicely uphill.

[@A.D.D.O.C.D.T]

Track shoes was an excellent analogy.

[@MrBig617]

I've had my slack trail bike with all the goodies (big grippy tires, dropper, 140mm travel) for years. It sucked at xc racing, so I bought a race specific 29er(skinny tires, rigid seat post, 100mm travel) with the intent to only use it racing. It turned out to be way more fun to ride and has greatly improved my bike handling skills. I use my trail bike so infrequent that I'm going to sell it. I just find the slack bikes are too forgiving and make the ride kind of boring. I guess I just had a different experience.

[@hardtailparty]

Where do you ride? Is it a hardtail or a full suspension? I'd argue that a 140 hardtail is closer to enduro/all mountain than trail.

[@MrBig617]

@@hardtailparty I ride in the Western New York area. My trail bike is a giant trance. So yes, it's full suspension. But with a 67 degree head tube, it's comparable to today's trail bike standards.

[@MrBig617]

I hope my comments aren't taken out of context. Trail bikes are a great choice for most people. They are great bikes. But xc race bikes are more capable than people give them credit for. It really tunes your skills and changes the ways you view your trails. And for the record, I really enjoy this channel. You have convinced me to buy an aluminum chameleon. But with the recent shortages due covid-19, I've just had to wait longer.

[@hardtailparty]

Surprisingly, a lot of my viewers have been able to find chameleons in stock in a variety of places lately. They're out there...

[@MrBig617]

Oh I found one, but it's been a long wait for it to come in. All the local dealers couldn't find me one though, and not buying locally had made me sad.

[@hardmtnbiker]

Well said. I’ll admit that I bought a XC frame and fork. It was the Trek 8900 with a RS Sid. It beat me up and I eventually ruined that bike. I completely agree that a XC Race bike is really for a fully committed racer trying to shave time off his PR’s.

[@abel2cycle989]

Yea I absolutely love my xc bikes. But for my next mountain bike I want to try a trail geometry with wider tires. Most likely a salsa or specialized. I did a black diamond trail on my xc hardtail it was one of my best rides ever! So much fun. But after watching this channel i really would like to try a trail mountain bike.

[@enpluson1539]

I disagree with most of this, but i don't feel like writing a novel about it. I suppose it comes down to whether you go for a sensible mid-range XC bike or the SL super-ultra S-Works version. But i don't get the distinction between XC bike and XC Race bike. The Geo doesn't differ. Also, most modern XC bikes have frames designed to flex. Examples are the Scott Scale and Ghost Lector SF.

[@hardtailparty]

I think we agree more than we disagree with each other. I'm considering "race bikes" the SL-super light competition models. An xc style bike can be a great choice for people's trail bike, but the race version is not always better (it's worse in a lot of cases). A lot of my viewers buy the $5k+ xc race bikes for everyday trail riding, thinking that if they spend more, they'll have a better riding experience, and they have zero intention of racing. This video is intended to steer them away from that decision. It's far more than geo, it's lighter wheels, lighter components, race ready tires, things that make a competitive advantage in a race, but aren't a good decision for daily riding.

[@enpluson1539]

​@@hardtailparty Yes, i thought that was obvious. I consider all of them racebikes, just different levels. To me, racing XC occasionally, it seems these problems are relegated to weight weenie builds that are not about being fast, but having the lightest bike possible. I think this is something one can see in actual racers' bikes as well. tyres and rims are getting wider, so that lower pressures are possible, despite a massive weight penalty, dropper posts are appearing more and more.

[@hardtailparty]

I totally agree. Maybe in 4 or 5 years we'll start seeing these trends trickling down to bikes in shops. But for now, most budget bikes (trek marlin for example) have old school xc race geo with budget xc parts that can't withstand the abuses of daily riding. They're not comfortable, and they're not built with all-around trail riding in mind. Someone who knows a lot about the sport can still make a fun xc bike that can handle local trails, especially with wider rims, wider tires, droppers, and slacker geo. But those are the fringes, and not reflective of what we're seeing in stores yet.

[@JoeCole12]

How can I tell the deference between an xc and an xc RACE bike?

[@policies8534]

Normal xc bikes are cheap and are more incapable than a race bike so they are basically the worst mountain bike since it doesn’t excel in anything

[@flyingsquirrel575]

Great advice that, alas, too few of the folks you’re targeting in this video will act on. Most, if they have the scratch, will spend it all (or more) on whatever the current XC world champion rides. Same with road bikes. I raced the road 30 years and loved training and racing but hated the race bikes. Trained on heavy, flexible steel, but now I have my own teeth and don’t need dialysis.

[@hardtailparty]

Lol. You made my day. Ride a compliant bike. Do it for your teeth and kidneys!

[@fpeter01]

Good video theme. I took apart on a couple of races with a 29er Epic HT. The bike is pretty lightweight, and eats uphills for breakfast. On the other hand, I did a couple of trails/singletracks/bike park routes. 90 mm travel was not made not for jumps, but the chicken ways worked. For more fun I want to build a better bikepark-ready bike soon. Fully bikes got really expensive, this channel is perfect for checking different type of bikes.

[@alifallah1954]

Thank you for info . What do you suggest in giant canyon or spark line up ? I want a hardtail for maybe 40 50 km at weekend ride going to enjoy some town near my city . 17 km every day ride for work and backing home . Thank you . And i am 177 is 29er good for me ? Right now i own a scott spark 760

[@JoeCole12]

I really enjoy your info and perspective! I'm currently struggling with desire to buy an xc bike. At 55yrs old I was provoked to end my 12yr hiatus and dusted off my 1998 Klein pulse race hardtail to ride with my son who just upgraded from my wife's old bike to a Carbon Chameleon. I really enjoy the interaction of a hardtail but I need something less sketchy than my old bike. Looking at the specs of a modern xc bike tells me they are less sketchy than my old bike (slacker head, larger wheels, 30mm more suspension, longer WB etc). My sons bike is 2 sizes too big for me so I can't get useful feedback from riding it, it feels like the Titanic compared to mine. Our trails in WV are rooty and rocky but I enjoy picking my way through at a slow pace. My main goal is making it up the climbs without stopping for breaks. I'm over weight and out of shape so I need all the help I can get on the climbs.For all these reasons is why I'm leaning towards an xc bike. Should I even be considering an xc bike for my trails an adventures? Thanks for any and all input!

[@hardtailparty]

I'd recommend a trail bike (not xc) that's full suspension. Something in the 120-140mm travel range

[@eddy9260]

Im am new to this. I currently have a Rockhopper expert, according to this I should work on my skills and not upgrade for example, to a Chisel? Please someone help.

[@hardtailparty]

If you're racing xx, a chisel would be great. For trail riding on harder stuff, a proper trail bike will be better.

[@KonstantinV1970]

Looking at todays XC race tracks, they are much more downhill race like than 10 or 15 years ago. The rock gardens and jumps would have perfectly suited a 2000s downhill track. As anresult, my 2022 Rocky Mountain Element or Nino Schurters Scott Spark IS a good choice for long and technical rides. 😊

[@hardtailparty]

Yeah, a lot has changed since this was filmed

[@stevenbrideau3741]

What about an entry level bike Specialized Chisel? As someone who would like to try racing, but also enjoys climbing and downhill at time.

[@hardtailparty]

the chisel is a great xc style bike. You can race on it no problem, but it doesn't have such race-specific parts that it breaks often. For climbing it's great. For downhill, it's going to be sketchy compared to a trail bike.

[@stevenbrideau3741]

@@hardtailparty I am in that weird phase that I want to race. But don't want to fully commit into it. Im currently riding a Trek Marlin 6 and its holding me back due to old 3x. Causing more headaches. My local park is mainly XC trails, I avoid ones I know are going to be sketchy. Its fairly rooty.

[@hardtailparty]

By all means, race with whatever you've got, no need to get a special bike just for a race or two. Once you're hooked, you'll want a dedicated race bike meant specifically for xc racing. If you just race occasionally, you'll be fine on any modern bike.

[@colbyhillis447]

@@stevenbrideau3741 I have a 2020 specialized rockhopper And a Marlin 6. I will say my rockhopper is a 2X and my Marlin is a 3X, I'd just learn to run between 1st and 2nd upfront and ignore that 3rd ring. That's for flat road. But that Marlin should be more then capable to compete with and if you want to upgrade, upgrade after 2-3 races. Your local bike shop will have what you want when your ready.

[@hardtailparty]

Agreed. People were winning XC world cups on 3x drivetrains for 20+ years. While 1x is nice, it's not what makes a race bike great.

[@ZackD]

The XC bike is a good fit if you split your time between trails and pavement. It's like an SUV that is road oriented but can do some offroading. You're not going rockclimbing with it.

[@hardtailparty]

Don't forget that trail bikes can be ridden on pavement too.

[@DRG313]

@hardtail party how bad would it be to buy a trail bike to ride mainly on the road? I really like the look of mountain bikes compared to road bikes. I plan to go to some trails for the first time but most of my time on the bike would be riding around time for exercise and what not. Would something like a specialized fuse or a rosco be a bad idea?

[@hardtailparty]

they're just more expensive than you need, but they won't be bad on the road. I recommend getting slick tires if you're going to have it on the road.

[@Kristian_Saile]

Curious how this has aged now that XC bikes have adopted more aggressive geo. Have been riding a Fuse and Stumpy but thinking about getting rid of them and trying that new Chisel FS. They just released a Chisel Evo the other day too. I realize not a hardtail theme here but more of a trend toward down country bikes and fun, faster bikes for all around. Training for the Marji Gesivk which is considered by some as the hardest race going in the US and want something fast, good climbing, but can handle super techy stuff while not beating the hell out of me. Might be a fun topic to revisit, the XC bike thing to hear how you feel it’s evolving.

[@hardtailparty]

Most of my comments are aimed at xc RACE bikes. But you're correct, they've come a long way since this video was released, especially in the FS world. I think xc race bikes can be a great option for people who have been riding for a while. This video is especially geared toward the people who value weight over all else, with no thought to geometry. Xc race bikes sre the lightest, but compared to trail biked, they're tough to ride well on intermediate terrain. That said, a skilled rider can take these new xc race bikes almost anywhere. I made this video especially for those who prioritize light weight over everything else, especially when they aren't racing xc events

[@Kristian_Saile]

@ yeah copy that. This whole down country thing is intriguing to me. I have yet to really pedal a newer geo XC focused bike yet though. Hope you are doing well health wise man. Have always appreciated your content as a super old school guy whose eyes were really opened by your content from around the time this video was made. Appreciate yah!

[@paule4]

Hello, newbie here looking for 1st off-road bike... What is meant by aggressive geometry, and how does this fit with "long, slack, low" and where do XC bikes sit on the spectrum..... (Yours sincerely and totally confused about the off-road world). Great channel by the way, just discovered you so haven't yet had time to do a search through all your educational vids.

[@paule4]

Oh, and I should also add "modern geometry" - what is that? Do you have a video explainer for beginners of these different geometries, terms, trends, and what they are each best for (terrain, riding style preference etc)...?

[@246Drew]

Yup, this goes for all the race\pro bikes in all the categories. Add the 80% rule and you can save yourself tons of headaches and frustrations. You end up with a bike that is super fun, capable and reasonable on the pocket.

[@fredcotterell2978]

Many many years ago. I had a used Scott team pro bike. It was a really decent HT but like you said they are really not a bike for a casual rider.

[@AydinProductionsLtd]

Great advice. I know someon that raced CC style bike just ordered a Chromag Rootdown to enjoy the ride.

[@mnmbrosmtb7499]

If I knew then what I know now! 2016 Stumpjumper 29er comp HT AL was purchased new and I had fun on local Metro Detroit suburb trails although I did bend the rear rim quite easily. Replaced with DT Swiss M1900. Moved to Chandler Arizona end of 17 and quickly learned FRS would help ease lower back pain as trails were brutal IMO and so I built an Evil Wreckoning. Seriously loved it and helped build leg strength and endurance for me. Let neighbor borrow Stumpjumper and he folds front rim and so he purchases me a new matching DT Swiss M1900. Covid hits and things change so I move back to the D, don't need to Wreckoning any more, sell it, get back on Stumpjumper however I change tires to Ardent 2.4 Rear & Recon 2.6 front. So I'm undecided to keep the Stumpy or sell and build and slacker HT as trails have had some added features and my riding alter ego wants something a little more playful. Great channel! Never made it to Sedona to MTB, Pemberton was ATF, San Tan loop was home, and South Mountain.

[@traviss3913]

Awesome, thank you for this! It answered questions I didn't even know I had.

[@therampcity]

Kind of right, but I don't agree totally. My riding is all based around fitness and speed. I love to go all in on a climbs to shave a few seconds of my PR. I also do big days out on the bike covering over 50 miles and 10,000 ft of climbing. Now my weapon of choice for this type of riding is the Trek Super Calibre which is the bike that has won the ladies XC world championship. I guess one persons fun is another persons pain.

[@hardtailparty]

Spot on. You are the perfect candidate for an xc race bike. Chasing PRs and big climbs is exactly what they're for. However, 98% of the riders out there that i deal with aren't looking to race, they're just looking to get in some pedalling on some local trails. Unfortunately, a lot of shops still push xc race bikes to these people and I'm trying to offer a counter argument for them. I'm glad xc race bikes exist. I even love riding them, but they don't make great all-rounders for most people.

[@mikeanderson1316]

Huh?What? Imagine waking up from a 20 year nap.and hearing this? That is exactly what happened to me. I decided I wanted a new mountain bike so I went online to buy one. When I clicked on the site I was presented with a choice recreational, cross country,Trail,race,Enduro dirt jumping,gravel,E-mountain, down hill ,Bikepacking,drop seat,27.5 ,29 and there were no 26” tires, and then there were 65° head angles 75-76° seat angles. The bikes that were in my garage Klein 72° head angle 72° Seat angle. We road these bikes all day weeks on end. When summer hit I lived in my truck from one race to the next I had a tent should I lived in all summer we lived on these race bikes that’s all we had we rode with the pros Road .And I did bikepack a few times. One That consisted of: my roommate got a new mountain bike. so we headed out after work. A place called hole in the ground top of Tahoe Donner Summit,just out our back door. they was still 10 foot snow drifts but we wanted to be the first to ride it that year.It was getting a little dark, no big deal we brought our night lights. At that point he sucked his rear deraler , we got that fixed it was about midnight .the problem is we lost the trail the snow drifts were high and long you got to remember mountain biking wasn’t main stream then. And you had to re-carve the trail After winner. Oh yeah we did stay the night and it was cold we did some good snuggling that night end it wasn’t by choice the coldest night I ever had. A night I will never forget. that was bikepacking to me. But I’m feeling the same way with all of this new mountain biking lingo I’m lost in the mix well hopefully I’ll get it all figured out. Thanks Steve great information I like it. I’m a little slow but I’ll catch up

[@drmoynihan]

I don't understand the XC category that you are referring to. I thought Canyon's Neuron is a XC bike that is very comfortable, popular, and expensive. I thought about one, but bought a more agressive Commencal Meta TR 29 and love it. Please explain what you mean by XC. Thank you.

[@hardtailparty]

The neuron is a trail bike, not an xc race bike. The lux and the exceed are Canyon's xc race bikes. Furthermore, even though a bike is popular and expensive, those shouldn't be your criteria for determining if it's great or not. There are lots of popular, expensive bikes that are awful choices for people.

[@cassysamel3914]

I don’t race but I’ve only ever had 2 race bikes: Sworks Tarmac and Sworks Epic. All tricked out with carbon. The catch: I bought em when they were about a decade old, 😂 so no longer cutting edge, less desirable and reasonably affordable. I don’t ride em all the time for reasons mentioned in this vid but they do shine when I feel like chasing after some uphill PR’s. Plus they’re timeless no matter what new standard or technology is out. But yeah modern race bikes are too expensive to buy and maintain as a daily rider.

[@mjjohn7715]

How do you think changing the stem effects the way an XC bike handles trail riding? If you put a positive rise stem as opposed to a negative does that make an XC bike better at riding trail?

[@leondagg3514]

Yes absolutely, try flipping your negative rise stem, upside down :)

[@jayf2487]

Would you say a giant talon would be a bad all around mountain bike?

[@hardtailparty]

There are other bikes for the price that I prefer, but it's not terrible. It'll be a good starter bike.

[@Paganiproductions84]

I have done 88 km ride this year with fairly techical terrain kind of xc marathon Course al done on a 29xc hardtail with 69 degrees headangle without Dropper

[@andreabotti99]

What I'm worried about is wether a full suspension trail bike, something with around 66° of head tube angle and around 130mm of front travel, can be pedaled as easily or at least close to an entry level xc hardtail on flat ground. I like to go on long trips with my bike and I don't want an xc racing machine but at the same time I wouldn't sacrifice ease of pedalling (in terms of energy) for comfort. Would you say a trail bike is good even for long distance pedalling?

[@sepultubob]

Thanks for sharing ! Here in france, "all entry" level bike around 1k are XC oriented. It's hard to find something a little different without having to go way higher in price.... But I guess the new generation of XC bikes like the kona kahuna or things like that are already way more fun than my 2010 26" cannondale.

[@Parakitedude]

I almost bought a scalpel....so happy i did end up with the Nukeproof Scout Elite 290...

[@dkharris111]

I get what he is saying and it all has merit. For the rider who could care less about time and performance The XC bike is a poor choice. Personally I think riding the newer enduro/trail bikes takes the fun out of it. They climb marginally/Poorly and it takes less skill/input from the rider to descend. I have three bikes right now and my Epic SWORKS is my go to. Being a bigger rider (6' & 245#) I do see merit in strength and durability but learning how to flow and not thrash is another area people seem to have forgotten with all the travel and advancements. I live near Asheville NC now and AZ previously soI am familiar with fairly rough trails and plenty of elevation. I see tons of trail bikes out there. Its just not for me. The cool thing is we can agree to disagree.

[@hardtailparty]

Great points. I could never have an sworks epic as my only bike, especially if I lived in Asheville. Respect for riding that in Asheville. There are far too many trials there I wouldn't want to ride on a n xc race harstail. For people with the budget for multiple bikes, an xc bike could make a lot of sense. Most of my audience can only afford one bike and they're looking for purchasing advice. If after watching this they still want an xc race bike, I'm all for it, but I wanted to warn a lot of new riders and shoppers of the pitfalls of thinking a lighter, more racy bike was better for everyone.

[@dkharris111]

@@hardtailparty Sure. Its all opinion. Like I said I have multiple. The only time I really ride my Yeti is during the offseason/ winter months. If I could only have one and I didnt care about time a trail bike may be a consideration. On the Epic I do enjoy having to work more on the descents though. Feels more like real mountain biking. But keep in mind youre talking to a guy who rode a rigid Breezer in the early 90s too.

[@TheBassallyear100]

I think the surprise you got from the spec fuse would be equal to what you would get from the spec epic ht comp - might even be a little better for you since the seat tube angle is a little steeper?

[@hardtailparty]

I've never ridden a hardtail steeper than 67.5* that I liked. The steep head angle of the epic is going to make it nervous on my local trails. Have you tried a slacker hardtail yet? A lot of the people who get bugged that I don't love XC hardtails haven't tried a solid trail hardtail with a 66* head angle.

[@TheBassallyear100]

@@hardtailparty yeah I actually have a trek stache 9.7 too. head angle on that is a tiny bit steeper than your norm at 67.8. the stache is a super fun bike but a bit unforgiving in the rough stuff! i prefer to size down on its tires though and run 2.6 Ikons.

[@monotoshmitra]

Unfortunately watch your video very late, already order a giant xtc slr1 , small in size , my height is 5.6ft age 41yr, will ride it mainly on road and during weekends...if you have some free time for me, let me know what modification I can do in that which will help me to ride that bike little comfortably and for a longer duration... thank you.

[@hardtailparty]

I do all my bike consultation over on Patreon. I'd be happy to help you over there. Patreon.com/hardtailparty

[@chris-sallydehoon152]

How do you feel about a fatbike ? It is possible to ride trails on a fatbike ...

[@hardtailparty]

Definitely. It'll be slower and bouncier, but totally possible. It's just a different experience.

[@letsallgetalong5499]

I'm about to take delivery of a trek supercaliber 9.7 thats not a professional xc bike is it? It's my first fs bike, I have a roscoe 8 hard tail for fun but I'm getting the 9.7 for more serious riding but it doesn't seem to much of a serious bike cause I was considering doing light trails on the 9.7 the frames carbon and wheels are carbon, I have no experience with carbon I always thought it was tougher than aluminium? Next year I plan on getting a proper trail bike, sticking with trek a fuel ex 9.7! If the supercaliber don't suit me I can always change it!!

[@hardtailparty]

The supercaliber will be a great xc race bike. Depending on where you live, it might be fine for the trails, but where I live it would be an awful daily bike.

[@michaelmurray7655]

What's your opinion on the specialized rockhopper expert for a first hardtail?

[@pezlo9561]

What do you think about the 2021 Scott scale 970 for everyday trail riding for fun?

[@oiyo5124]

Whats the steepest HTA would you go for that can be a good trail bike?

[@hardtailparty]

That will depend on trail conditions. At this point, I'm not interested in owning a hardtail steeper than 66* unless it's a dedicate DJ or trials bike.

[@oiyo5124]

@@hardtailparty Thanks for answering. Love your videos! Amazing Content!

[@ikharl328]

Thinkin bwt getting on a hardtail... for big guys, do u recommend goin for a bigger tire, even goin plus tire for comfort?! Or a 29 high volume tire with cush would suffice

[@hardtailparty]

A high volume 29 with cushcore will work fine

[@chadschrum1306]

I’ve Ben doing more endurance mountain biking ranging between 40 50 90 an 100 miles I have a hard carbon plus bike it’s a trail bike would it be better to have a little weight full suspension

[@hardtailparty]

Possibly, it depends on where you ride. You'll be the best budget of that.

[@chadschrum1306]

hardtail party ok thanks some rocky some muddy with hills thanks a lot

[@Tiger24kicks]

I was sold a XC bike for mountain biking and I feel super unstable going down. I'm to fast and feel like I'm a get bucked off the bike from the suspension.

[@kamuelalee]

Great vid. How would you rate the Specialized Chisel as a XC bike and as a daily bike to use on light trails and pavement?

[@hardtailparty]

It's a great one

[@kamuelalee]

@@hardtailparty Cool. Have you reviewed the latest Chisel or plan to?

[@wilburlim7]

Bought a 2021 rockhopper, as it was the only available stock at that time. Plan to put a 120mm fork in it to make it’s 68 HA to 67. Would you still consider it a trail bike? Or am i better off just getting a more oriented trail bike?

[@hardtailparty]

It depends on a lot of things. Budget, where you ride, etc.

[@linkinparkdrift]

Great video. What do you think of the Giant Talon with a 68 degree HTA? I was really wanting a modern geometry bike, specifically the Rocky Mountain Soul, but they won't be available again until September, as said by my local Rocky Mountain dealer. The Talon is the only bike available at my budget; I've checked pretty much every bike shop in my city and further. I plan on riding gravel bike paths, and a pretty small bike park (couple small dirt jumps and skinnies, with basic single track). Please let me know.

[@hardtailparty]

See my video on how to get a bike during a shortage, and pay particular attention to not lowering your expectations too much. I'd hold off on the talon. Any bike is fine on gravel paths but for jumps, you won't want a 68* hta.

[@juansanchez-tr1dq]

@@hardtailparty , and waterudoing, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Think of it in the context of the type of bike you are coming from, let me explain. Bikes are expensive and are not really a purchase most people make every year. My last bike was a 2009 cannondale F5... great bike at the time and in my opinion, great bike now but the 26 in tires are getting less and less common. I think this bike had a 70.5 or 71* HTA so pretty steep, but it was all I knew. I ride in NE Ohio and trails are fairly rooty so I reason I reasoned that if I was going to spend $$ I would prioritize a bike with plus sized tires. I ultimately decided on a Stache 7. By Steve's reasoning, with a 67.something HTA this would have been a pass, but it was what I wanted and what I got. And guess what, compared to my old cannondale, I pretty much feel like superman when I am out on the trails, it goes down hill, climbs, jumps and pretty much does everything light years better than my old ride. Would a 66* HTA be better, probably but I wouldn't know because my only context is a way steeper bike. Not saying Steve is wrong, he isn't, but keep in my he rides in Sedona. Back to the original post, if your LBS rents bike, not all do, try renting it and see how it feels, you might realize it fits the bill. Steve, if you are ever near the Cleveland area, hit me up and let me show you the east rim lamb loop at the Cuyahoga national park, best trail I have ever ridden!

[@linkinparkdrift]

@@juansanchez-tr1dq I completely agree with you, but I think I will hold off on the Talon like hardtail party said. I'm going to try and see one in person and maybe get a feel for it once they come in stock in a couple weeks. I am coming from bikes with steep HTAs too (~2010 XC MTB, and a BMX), so that's all I know. I really want to join the modern geometry trend because I think it will suit my riding style (or how I wish I could ride), and not to mention that they look sick lol. I'm afraid if I get the Talon, I will have buyers remorse, since it was only my third preferred bike of choice. And compared to the first two choices, it's definitely more of an XC bike.

[@trevlyndeklerk6266]

Here in South Africa we are xc / marathon orientated.... Boy do I wish we could have some of the bikes you review here on your channel.... I've never held a KOM, so might as well have fun on the trail. Lol

[@JeffWagen]

I feel you, here in Brazil is the same thing, there are no trail hardtail a to buy, even longer travel forks are difficult to find...

[@celsopersepone4668]

Do you have a website listing solid examples of good HT trail bikes?

[@hardtailparty]

No. So much depends on terrain. Most bikes from most reputable companies are solid. I have a consulting service that helps people with recommendations for bikes for their terrain and needs. Indo that through patreon.com/hardtailparty . But for those who don't want that service, I offer free reviews here on KZbin.

[@carravagio16]

have you seen the new epic, the geo on that bike rivals many "trail" bikes, i think your being a bit harsh on the xc bikes sure they may be more "race orientated" but some of the new models coming out now are much closer to a trail bike then say 3 years ago.

[@hardtailparty]

Yes, the geo of the new epic seems to be trending toward trail bike/speed, especially the evo one (not an xc race bike). However, the rest of the bike is still composed of XC race components. Lightweight frame, lightweight pivots, suspension, components, etc. Great for racing, but not so great as an everyday bike. Bike geo is becoming more "trail" oriented every year, but 99% of xc race bikes (expecially hardtails), are still optimized for the uphill, have weak/lightweight, expensive parts, and have a rough ride. The epic hardtail is still quite sketchy as an all-around bike. I'd love to try the epic evo, but it's not really an xc race bike anymore.

[@getoutside_az6434]

I would love to see you review the new Epic EVO. I am very curious about that for a next bike. Still love my Fuse though!!

[@hardtailparty]

@@getoutside_az6434 it's a full suspension, so sadly you won't see it reviewed on this channel. It'd be a run bike to try out though. It'd be interesting to see how it compares to the spot ryve 115.

[@davidh7414]

I used to own a 2014 model Trek Fuel EX 29er. 120mm front and rear travel. It was marketed as an all-rounder trail bike. It had a 69.3 head angle. 455mm chainstays. It had a solid seat post and was taller, shorter and steeper than most XC dual suspension race bikes are today. I sure went over the bars a lot on that thing over the years.

[@getoutside_az6434]

hardtail party of course- what was I thinking 🤣

[@tstodgell]

Back in the 1990’s, riding in Pennsylvania, some of the best "trail" bikes were not XC racers. We had the Cannondale Beast of the East, Grove Innovations, Eastern Woods Research, and so on. These bikes were more like trials, slalom and DJ rigs than the XC frames of the day. They were more fun to ride, too!

[@hardtailparty]

I wish we'd see more slalom/DJ hardtails. I miss those days. That's why i love such short chainstays.

[@charlie6432]

Thoughts on the new Transition Spur? 120/120 travel up front and rear shock. 27.5 lbs. Dubbed a “down country” rig.

[@hardtailparty]

The term "down country" is one of the worst marketing cliches to (dis)grace our sport. Mike Levy was trying to see if he could get a category to stick, and what he described in the term has evolved. Now "downcountry" is just a marketing buzzword now for short travel bikes that don't have 90s geo. It confuses people new to the sport. Even those who have been riding forever can't decide on what it means.

[@hardtailparty]

Transition makes fun bikes. I obviously haven't ridden the spur, but it could be a great bike for some people. I don't know why they don't just call it a "trail" bike. Actually... I do know why, but it's lame. But hey, all that marketing mumbo jumbo works, and people buy stuff because of marketing.

[@jaydenbourke3722]

Here’s my problem I’m looking at buying a new bike but I want short travel under 130mm and not super slack So I was looking at xc bikes for that reason but if there’s any bikes you would recommend that are along those lines Please let me know

[@hardtailparty]

It sounds like you'd be a perfect candidate for my bike consultation service.

[@philb4493]

No lie! Can't tell you how many folks I've come across that are that dude... only rides the best of best "race" equipment. But reliability and comfort are where it really is at... especially on longer rides. But there is something to be said for efficiency and short stays. Its a balancing act.

[@jflaim410]

I understand your point but I don't agree. In fact I would say the opposite could be said. I will point this out because I have a friend that recently bought a really nice Giant Trance X2 and has admitted he now no longer has the same excitement to go ride like he did when he just had a hard tail. The bike is heavy, cumbersome and not agile like his hard tail. I am guessing he would not feel that way if we rode at a mountain bike park every time we went out but honestly on anything less than a man made park Trail and Enduro bikes may be overkill? So an XC Race bike may make a better every day riding bike than the heavier, longer, slacker bikes made for Pro level Courses. Most trails(unless you live by a mountain bike park or ski area that has one) do not require anything more than a hard tail or 100 to 120mm dual suspension bike and if you are going to do any lengthy amount of climbing the lighter bike will take less effort to get up the hill. I do agree that 99.5% of us do not need the top level XC Bike but the short travel, lighter bikes are XC Bikes. Just my opinion

[@hardtailparty]

@@jflaim410 i also agree that most people are overbiked. However, the RACE hardtails are tough for a lot of people to enjoy. The angles, the crazy light parts, the long stems, make it an unpleasant experience for many newer riders who get sucked into the "lighter is always better" mentality. I think short travel trail bikes are my favorite bikes on the market right now. I dont own any hardtails with more than 130mm travel

[@michaelpetersen6854]

Facts! What times the party?

[@hardtailparty]

The party never stops

[@AvinaashKuppusamy]

Is a 67* HT Angle considered an XC bike? I have a Marin Bobcat Trail 5 from 2018 and i swapped in a 120mm fork to slacken things up

[@AvinaashKuppusamy]

Basically i wanna know if im already out of my bikes comfort zone as im pushing it on blue technical trails 😅

[@hardtailparty]

You're good. XC, Trail, Enduro, etc. are all made-up anyway. I typically classify bikes from 68*-71* as XC, 65-67* as trail, and 62-65* as enduro. You'll be just fine with your bike on blue trails.

[@AvinaashKuppusamy]

@@hardtailparty Thank you! It came with a 100mm fork and i upped it to 120 which should alter its original 68* HT angle. Im thinking of upping it to 130/140 but im afraid the frame isnt up for it 😅

[@hardtailparty]

I'd stick with 120, overforking that much is hard on a frame and it may break over time.

[@AvinaashKuppusamy]

@@hardtailparty Point taken! Thank you for entertaining my questions! I guess my current bike aint too bad for a beginner

[@twisxted1737]

What models would you recommend for everyday use and reliability as you stated in the video? you convinced me by saying that XC bikes are solely focused on racing.

[@twisxted1737]

Also, is a Trek Marlin 7 a good choice since it is an XC bike, but not a mainly focused XC bike? it also is a Marlin after all I read reviews saying it can handle what you may throw at it and works for many people.

[@twisxted1737]

Oh yeah, the Marlin 7 is an XC bike, and I just realized you were talking about XC RACE bikes. or does the marlin 7 still fall into that category?

[@hardtailparty]

The marlin is still pretty stuffy and other bikes would be more fun.

[@nathancouse3596]

I rather ride a xc bike at my trails than a long travel enduro bike on my trails any day. With that being said I ride a down country full sus. 110 rear 120 front

[@bananasstuff3344]

no one other than racers and riders in really really steep places need an enduro bike.

[@pepeanza6187]

One thing you forget about XC hardtails they are great for training in pavement and doing stuff in the street and and if the trails are not close to you like 20 miles to you you can ride whit the XC bike to them and come back to home not every mountain biker want a road or a gravel bike I have 2 full suspension enduro bikes but I love using the XC bike hardtail I feel a much better rider in the XC bike is more like you are what you are there's no cheating

[@hardtailparty]

Have you tried a trail hardtail yet? Still great on the street, still makes you a great rider.

[@pepeanza6187]

hardtail party I use to have a 26 kona don't remember the name but it was a all mountain 140 travel, but I'm the kind of rider who likes to climb and decend and climb again and you get the idea, never been in the super light bike thing and can't pay for it, I was looking your review of the specialized fuse looks good but definitely have to sold one of my full suspension enduro bike, my question is I'm afraid to make a mistake I know that the fuse is gona climb great and my strong point is climbing but what about downhills? The trails that I ride are kind of raw mountain trails,rocks, holes drops,some jumps nothing crazy, steep downhills, been riding 18 years always have a hardtail on my fleet but is always a XC hardtail, do I change one of my enduro for the fuse?

[@hardtailparty]

At this point, I recommend demoing one before selling your enduro rig. But there's a HUGE difference between an XC hardtail and a trail/enduro hardtail. Check out the comments sections of my videos of people who have seen the light and love their trail hardtails. Only you can decide if it's worth it.

[@sixstanger00]

My question is, at what point does a bike become an "XC race bike?" I mean, I have a $500 hardtail Motobecane Fantom 29 X4 that I've modified with a RockShox Recon, RaceFace Chester cranks, RaceFace 1x narrow wide, & Maxxis Rekon tires. It's a beast in XC races, but I've also been using it as a trail bike for the 3 years I've had it. Well over 3700 miles on it. Admittedly, it excels on climbs but tends to lag a bit on descents. My buddies are all on full squishes - Fezzari, Trek Fuel EX 8, etc. In order for me to keep on their tails on descents, I have to pretty much to "let it all hang out." On the other side of the coin, despite their 50T cogs, they get annihilated when we start uphill. I've been eyeing the Motobecane Hal Boost for several months now as my new "trail bike" and keeping my Fantom strictly for XC racing. Thoughts?

[@hardtailparty]

My intention wasn't to shame people who race xc. If you race, go for it. Xc race bikes really are best for xc racing. I made this video to help people who think they xc bikes are best, without giving any thought to anything other than a race xc bike.

[@sixstanger00]

@@hardtailparty *_My intention wasn't to shame people who race xc._* Oh goodness, I wasn't implying that at all LOL. I actually bought the bike before my friends conned me into doing a season with them. I was hooked after my first race and haven't looked back since. This year will make my 3rd consecutive full season, and hopefully my 3rd top 5 finish overall in my division. Isn't there somewhat of a gray area between "trail bike" and "XC race bike?" I feel like that's where mine fits, because as a trail bike I've honestly had no complaints other than it's jittery descents, but then it's a HT, soo... I wouldn't call mine a true "XC race bike" because frankly, it lacks a lot of race-quality components other than what I've installed myself. In stock form, it had a chunky SunTour XCT spring fork, tubes, 3x chainring, etc. I've shed a few lbs since going 1x, air fork, & tubeless. It can hold it's own in XC, but definitely not what some might consider a "race bike."

[@hardtailparty]

That's awesome, congrats on your great success. That's awesome to hear you podiuming. Yeah, "XC" and "Trail" are just made up marketing terms to help people make more informed bike purchase decisions. You can race a trail bike on XC races, and you can ride an XC bike on trails. The line is pretty blurry for a lot of models. I think my favorite bike that blurs the line between trail and xc extremely well is the Ibis DV9. That's what I'd ride if I were racing XC and riding with my friends on the weekend. I'd put a 120mm fork on it, possibly an angleset, and have a blast on that thing.

[@zachturner6866]

sixstanger00 hey man I race Xc too and I have a Motobecane Hal 6 as a trail bike from before I started Xc racing. I have an Orbea Oiz for XC races. I’d advise against getting Motobecane. It’s got old geo so other bikes are going to be MUCH better descenders for your big bike. I’ve ridden modern trail bikes like the Scott Genius and its no comparison when descending versus the Motobecane. The Motobecane is inexpensive but I’ve found that they put good parts only in places where it’s visible(like Xt drivetrain). The hubs and wheels and bar and other stuff is quite low quality so they are not as good of deals as they seem. Mostly the frame is rather low quality and I think you are better off with a better frame and not as good components imo. If you’re looking to save money, keep an eye out for good used deals and you’ll get a much better value than the Motobecane. For new, brands like Commencal or YT are a good value. Or consolidate your Xc race bike and the trail bike into perhaps a down country bike with better quality. It could likely handle both duties depending on your terrain.

[@hardtailparty]

Great add Zach, thanks for taking the time to help sixstanger out.

[@rakewawrz5200]

So what is kind of a good XC/ Trail cross bike ? Kind of like the Swiss Army of hardtails. Or maybe the question is if you could only have one hard tail?

[@hardtailparty]

See my reviews, I try to describe what the bikes are best at. There are so many great hardtails out there: fuse, paradox v3, middle child, mmmbop, BFeMax, chameleon, timberjack, Ionic Johnny Rotten, DV9, the list goes on and on.

[@joesweeney7865]

What size bike do I get has i am in between large and medium. At 5,10 So M with 29s or L with 27.5.

[@hardtailparty]

It depends on the model. Bike sizes aren't consistent from one manufacturer to another. I'm a small in some models and a L in others.

[@joesweeney7865]

@@hardtailparty I know am confused with all the geo and sizing. Bike is a orange crush which says I need a large

[@dpugh39]

Everyday bike is Team Marin 2 and I love it Race bike is Trek Procaliber and love that 2

[@hardtailparty]

The team Marin 2 is a special bike.

[@andotrojo8932]

can you make a review of GT Zaskar LT Elite or Expert please! 😁

[@drbyers]

After 30 years of riding XC bikes I’m finally about to buy a modern geometry bike. Super-steep head angles get you up the mountain pretty quick. But barreling down the other side with sweaty palms gets tiresome. Adventure hardtail here I come.

[@twowheelslater7112]

I have to disagree with a few caveats. Yes an lazer focued xc ht can be weapon but your right they can be hard to live with and also can reach out and bite you if you get lazy. Now my lux is raked out to 120 and has a wider 30mm int rim with 2.35 tires a dropper post wider 760mm carbon bar and its still a weapon but its also a super fast light trail bike. Here in the southeast trails can be tight with trees. There are many switchbacks and the terrain is mostly undulating. There are not many climbs over 1000 feet. It lends itself well to these more modern xc bikes or downcountry bikes. If you were to round up my friends they probably own 80 percent of the koms in the area so riding a longer travel trail bike can really wear you out if you dont want to get dropped.

[@hardtailparty]

If you're hunting KOMs or racing XC, then an XC race bike is a great option. In my opinion, your lux is more trail bike than xc race bike at this point. 30i, dropper, 2.35 tires and 120mm travel is exactly what I'd consider the perfect trail bike. I'm glad it works well for you, but for 99% of my viewers, it's not going to be the right bike for them.

[@twowheelslater7112]

@@hardtailparty Yeah light trail or Marathon rig is what I use it for. There is a lot baked into the recipe but the biggest difference between trail and xc is a low front end. Trail bikes will save you from going over the bars since you can get more weight behind the bars. XC bikes will toss you then laugh at you about it. Good for the bike industry I guess. There really is no one bike for everything.

[@lukeholloway7836]

That doesn’t mean that you can have fun on a xc bike on like downhill . But I see you’re point about there no the most ideal bikes out there for like enduro . Nowadays it seems that you need one bike for one type of trail . This can be a little discouraging for some people . I mean this is no ones fault it’s just how it is these days.

[@andrewfredrickson856]

What category would you put the DV9 in?

[@hardtailparty]

A trail bike that can be raced in xc races from time to time. But there's a reason I put a -2* angleset on mine.

[@andrewfredrickson856]

@@hardtailparty i have one on the way as my first mountain bike!

[@Kaidaejin]

A trail bike that climbs well. If you live somewhere where steep climbing is important, but there are also a lot of roots and rocks etc. on the flat parts of the trail. If you don't need to climb so well, then a bike that fits a different fork might work better.

[@dinoXAs2]

If only one bike = trail bike I have trek remedy for downhill and trail riding and Canyon XC bike with a dropper for flatter base mile riding and also for trail riding (dropper post is must have). This is good combo with two bikes.

[@buggs9950]

Yeah I've got an old XC race hardtail. It's so, so light but very sketchy to descend on. I'd rather drag the extra 10lbs of my other bike around to be honest so I ended up putting slicks on it..

[@elbskipper5893]

I live in Hamburg Germany and its more flat here,( those two hills we have got....) to reach the woods i have to bike really far out of the city. Thats why i have the idea to buy a XC MtB just to ride some miles. I liked the feeling of riding a BMX when i was young. I cant tell atm if the XC Bike can give me that feeling again( i hope ). A Trail or Enduro MtB I think is nothing for me, i see my self just flying of the Bike eating dirt. And we dont have those nice Mountains or Canyons you got over there. So whats left for me...XC just ride miles for smiles i guess. Even thought i like the Chamelion or Nukeproof Scout, but i dont want to end up having a Bike that doesnt suits the Terrain. best regards from Hamburg Germany.

[@offthemaps]

It was really amusing to watch this video just days after I bought the new Epic HT. I watched your previous video on the Fuse, but they are almost impossible to find here in Europe. I will say, however, that the Epic rides surprisingly well on trails. They introduced a bit slacker geometry, left enough space for a dropper post, and boosted the hubs. Anyway - at about 2 grand for a carbon frame with very "upgradable to shred" geometry, I am happy with my purchase so far. Keep up that great videos and thanks for being clear, concise, and honest.

[@hardtailparty]

I'm glad you're enjoying your bike.

[@MrCjrodriguez]

Good points, well articulated...

[@peteandingrid]

Great advise, I have just ordered a GT hardtail hope I made a good choice as an all rounder.

[@chrisgrah99]

And what’s wrong with buying the bike because Emily batty rides it? 😀