"The Isle is not a fighting game" Argument

The isle is not a fighting game. A statement that has become more and more common during the past few months. You can see it in my comment section, on discord, even the isle developers themselves have said it, so at a first glance they should be correct right?
Well obviously the isle is not a fighting game, we all know it is a dinosaur survival, theres no margin for confusion when it comes to this game’s categorisation, but unfortunately things are not as simple as this. This argument on its own is indeed correct, but the true problem here is the context where its used.
You always see this sentence being thrown around every time one topic, and one in specific is talked about, and that subject…. Is balancing. That is important because theres a clear thought pattern that leads people to this conclusion, buts heres the kicker, they are wrong, and im going to explain why.
Hope you all enjoy the video :)
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X'Zaguer Discord Server - / discord
X'Zaguer Patreon - / xzaguer
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Chapters:
Intro 0:00
Main Content 1:09
Outro 12:29
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#TheIsle #TheIsleEvrima #Evrima #gamedesign #ConceptAnalysis #GameAnalysis #XZaguer #theislenews #leveldesign #TheIslemap #gateway #pathoftitans #beastsofbermuda #gamedesign

[@Tatsumi36912]

I can wholeheartedly agree with this. Magyarosaurus should be replaced with something like Shunosaurus. Shunosaurus was yes a small sauropod, around 36ft, but one that actually can fight back against the roster. It was armed with a club on the end of its tail, a trait that is more well known in ankylosaurs. So yeah. Go with something that can fight back instead of something thats only defenses are being fast and having a bad taste are what it’s got. Edit: Thanks for the love. Glad I’m not the only one who agrees that Shunosaurus would have been a better choice.

[@raccon1007]

Finally someone who actually acknowledges shunosaurus existence

[@Tatsumi36912]

@@raccon1007 oh trust me, I’ve known of its existence for years.

[@zandergonzalez5190]

Hatzegopteryx after leaving path of titans and joins the isle evrima: mmm dinner since hateg island

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Or they could have gone with Amargasaurus or Plateosaurus, both Sauropodomorphs that some estimates _might have been faster than Allosaurus._

[@zandergonzalez5190]

@@thenerdbeast7375 I choose plateosaurus because it’s speed was about 40mph and size was 8 meters (26 feet) long the same size as person

[@dagoodboy6424]

U can hunt a deer w a gun and it will flee if it sees u coming. But if u get in its grill u WILL get kicked or gored. Herbivores are not weak , never forget that folks. Also nice video bro.

[@ReinertZerker]

Killed one with my bare hands at 16

[@dagoodboy6424]

@@ReinertZerker same but i didnt kill em i let em go i was 17. I shouldnt have got close. Idk if i coudve handled an even larger buck though. Im just saying herbivores are dangerous. Plus there pleanty of times a buck has killed someone with ease

[@IndominusRex-wc1ey]

​@@ReinertZerker wait, you fist fought a fucking deer?

[@ReinertZerker]

@@IndominusRex-wc1ey No, I broke it's neck. I don't think you can actually kill a deer by fighting it with your fists dude.

[@IndominusRex-wc1ey]

@@ReinertZerker exaggerated, but I'm just surprised you were able to kill any animal with just your hands alone

[@thecommycompy5450]

the isle is a survival game, it's just that combat is the only thing that rewards you, so ya it's a fighting game right now, hopefully you'll get more rewards for doing stuff other than fighting in the future

[@gavynadams9079]

Like the elder system will help a little with rewards

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

this

[@kaelrebric]

​@@gavynadams9079 if done right yes.

[@kenshinhimura9387]

Not a survival game. It's a pvp game

[@benanders4412]

They'll just have to make some adjustments to the game and especially the map. Some ideas: #1 Biomes, nesting spots, escape routes and hiding places: Divide the map in different biomes. Give smaller animals enough places to escape, hide and safely nest where larger animals simply can't go or have a hard time. Borrows, caves, rock formations, dense Jungle, fallen trees, deep water, fallen trees over rivers and streams, hollow trees, small tunnels. Make it possible for some smaller species to climb trees, hop rock formations etc etc. This will work best within different biomes. Making the best nesting grounds the safest for the species. The food supply might also be adjusted per biome to give different advantages to different species. Example: Smaller creatures: Are mostly spawning and probably nesting on the edges of the map. These area's are not accessible by the larger creatures, and more difficult to navigate for the mid tier creatures. These areas can be dense jungle, rock formations and mountains, small streams of water, swamps, fallen trees over rivers and streams, hollow trees, small tunnels. Offering safe nesting space and plentiful food but limited in it's diversity. Mid tier creatures: Are mostly spawning and nesting in the In between areas, bordering the biomes for smaller and bigger animals. Separating the two. This area is accessible by all creatures. Smaller creatures might however have less cover and hiding spaces than in their spawning and nesting area in exchange of a more diverse food supply. While larger animals might still have a somewhat difficult time navigating the area. These areas could be less thickly, less overgrown jungle. Have some larger rivers in them, some open pastures, smaller rock formations. It offers something for everyone but will mostly suit the mid tier animals. Large tier creatures: Are mostly spawning and nesting in the large and more open grass areas dividing the map in 2-3-4. Here they have plenty room to maneuver and run at their maximal speed limit. Mostly open fields with good visibility. Larger lakes and river crossings. Plots of large trees sparsely separated from each other. Little oasis with plenty and diverse high quality food sources for herbivores, smaller and mid tier animals, tempting them to make the dangerous trip crossing apex territory. Some lonely but larger rock formations or canyons to hide in ambush. These areas might also have points that can be seen from large distance to help navigate the map , like a building, lonely mountain or volcano etc. #2 Natural selection, breeding and evolution: Adjust growth time, nesting, partner selection, egg incubation time, egg numbers per nest, fertility time and reproduction in general. I would opt for a genetic up-breeding tier system where players can slowly improve stats for their offspring by breeding with the right partner and eating the right diet. Make it possible for players to inspect their partner by for example sniffing them. Or maybe a mark left behind by a player {mark territory}. This gives players long term and team orientated goals and more to do in game, creating something like a dating simulator. People will also get more long term invested into the game by doing this. These buffs should be small and take many generations and a long time to max out. Breeding the perfect specimen should be a puzzle, team effort, long term commitment and a challenge. Giving somewhat realistic evolutionary effects. And might also influence skin color etc. Example breeding Tier system: F till A tier. Starting with all E tier if spawning in without being given an egg by another player. Every tier 10 points. Every stat a separate tier/point pool. Good diet parent for [stat pool] +1 point for that stat Perfect diet parent for [stat pool] +2 point for that stat Good diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] +1 point for that stat Perfect diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] +2 point for that stat Bad diet parent for [stat pool] -1 point for that stat Horrible diet parent for [stat pool] -2 point for that stat Bad diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] -1 point for that stat Horrible diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] -2 point for that stat Inbreeding takes a huge hit on the stat pool. And might even make offspring go back into the negative or F Tier. Risk and reward: The food supply might also be adjusted to give some species an easier time within different biomes. Forcing some species to travel more and take more risks if they want better breeding stats. Or play it more safe and stay within their own nesting biome where food is plentiful but limited in it's diversity. If the differences in growth time, nesting, partner selection, egg incubation time, egg numbers per nest, fertility time and reproduction in general are big enough, there will be more players and larger groups who opt for the smaller animals/herbivores etc and will max them out much sooner. Just like in real life, there will be much more smaller animals and evolution will go faster with the fast breeding species with many offspring over the larger animals with few offspring. A clan of small herbivores might be able to have perfect stats within a couple weeks, while a clan of T-Rexes might take many months. Losing an egg or young would also be a much bigger loss for a T-rex than for a herbivore, smaller or mid tier animal because of the lower number and larger time investment. #3 Adjust day/night times/visibility and introduce a more impactful sleep system #4 Adjust agility. #5 Adjust hearing distance. #6 Adjust smell distance. #7 Adjust AI spawning and intelligence. Making them travel between point A and point B instead of making them spawn randomly around players. This will create popular hunting spots for carnivores. Directing players to areas without forcing them there. Some bigger AI might also be able to defend themselves.

[@stori_elle]

para could have been given a wide variety of self defense options - a powerful back kick (like elk or giraffes, they scare wolves and lions [respectively] because they can quite literally one shot them irl.); powerful frontal punches like kangaroos (need i speak on how terrifying and strong kangaroos are? they're notoriously known as powerful boxers.); or even a stomp or headbutt ability would make sense - i mean, look at everything teno has to offer! why play as a terrified para when you can play as a teno and be able to put up a fight?

[@hplovecraftcat]

The problem is that the devs put too much animals in the same niche. The Shantungosaurus already does what you described. Giganotosaurus, Acrocanthosaurus and Tyrannosaurus are all fully terrestrial apex predators. Baryonyx and Suchomimus fill the exact same niche. In the game atleast, they're pretty much the same. Avaceratops and Diabloceratops are both small-medium sized agressive ceratopsians. Scally Omniraptors (Uthas) and Feathered. Besides the skin, they're the exact same thing. They just keep adding more and more dinosaurs without keeping in mind the gameplay aspect, and think that adding an "ability" to each dinosaur is gonna change that. Herrerasaurus is a good example of a good exclusive mechanic. It's the only dinosaur that can climb. But what different mechanics can they make for Baryonyx or Suchomimus for example?!

[@II_RoseRia_II]

@@hplovecraftcat well sadly it won't be an exclusive mechanic for herrera, the devs confirmed that after herrera releases hypsi will have a climbing mechanic (in my opinion it makes sense for hypsi having a climb mechanic but yea i wish that hypsi would only climb by jumping atleast). but yea tooooooo many dinos being added to the roster and less of the gameplay aspect

[@12yroldedgelord41]

Irl, para was like 8-10 tons

[@stickempires2608]

@@12yroldedgelord41 what source are you looking at that says para is that heavy. Almost everything I have found estimates it around 4 tons.

[@youtubealt243]

@@hplovecraftcat baryonyx and suchomimus have completely different niches, tf? Sucho is like 3x its size, and the recent study about bone density of many dinosaurs showed that suchomimus was much more terrestrial than baryonyx or spinosaurus. While baryonyx would struggle with a carno, suchomimus would be ragdolling allosaurus and sub deinos around with ease. Completely different

[@gix.y]

When combat is basically the only thing to do in your game aside from what are essentially gimmicks then it's a fighting game, even if that's not intentional.

[@corylance364]

Theres plenty of thingsto do in the game other than fighting. Even more to come. Currently you can raise kids, explore new locations, depending what you play as you can tease other species. They are adding migration that will change your diet to the food in the area your told to go to. Elder system will add a stronger version of each species new perk paths, and death at an old age. They announced recently that they are planning to add speed buffs to gali calls allowing players to buff eachothers speed by calling. Maybe other species will be similar with different call buffs. Para and trooadon are two more examples of team effort survivalists. A lot of species yet to come and some already in the game will be played very differently once the game is finished.

[@Tacobellcramps]

@@corylance364 how long is it going to take though? The isle is only recently making updates now that Path of Titans us threatening their money because even if PoT isn’t perfect, they aren’t lazy like the isle devs

[@corylance364]

@@Tacobellcramps pot had nothing to do with the isle making updates.

[@corylance364]

@@Tacobellcramps the isle devs have continued to update and add new improvments the entire time. A lot of the mechanics and improvments needed to be added before new dinos could be added to the roster. Now that they are ready, they are starting to add new dinos. As for how long it will take, no one knows but try a little patients man. Its not like you could code this game.

[@Beamin439]

@@corylance364 you dont "raise kids". it literally takes like 10 minutes for them to become big enough to go out on their own. "explore new locations" is only "something to do" if you are brand new. ive seen all the locations. im sorry but walking around aimlessly is not "something to do". "tease other species" please stop...what even is this argument lmao. omg im emoting!!! how fun!!! "They are adding migration that will change your diet to the food in the area your told to go to." so instead of eating the food over there, i can eat the food over there. wow how gamebreaking it only took 8 years for them to add that. "A lot of species yet to come and some already in the game will be played very differently once the game is finished." let me tell u a little secret about games that are in early access for 10 years.......its never going to be finished. stop making lame excuses. theres nothing to do in the game but fight.

[@whywatt733]

Yeah as someone who spends a lot of time discussing with several QA members, it's fascinating to see their frustration whenever it comes to balancing, how hard they try and push for the experience to be rewarding only to get stonewalled. Biggest offending case was in current branch Evrima where Deinosuchus is more abundant than ever and is especially ridiculous as subadult, where it can run inland, grab prey and run back to water with plenty of stamina to spare for drowning adult animals. Hypernova showed this to Dondi and word for word the response was "Oh that's neat that it can do that for a bit." Neat? It's outperforming the adult Deinosuchus and is effectively able to unshackled itself from the core restriction behind Deinosuchus as a playable, what offsets the oneshot potential it has. PvP is one of the more enjoyable aspects of these games especially with how much effort Evrima is putting into their combat and movement systems. When there's ultimately no clear overarching goal to survival that benefits a player account wide, with only a single slot per server, an animals ability to stay alive vis a vis the environment is entirely overshadowed by its ability to engage with other players, which requires fight or flight within expectations of the time investment. Para fleeing apexes is a non issue, but why would any of the players who enjoy fleeing pick an animal that loses 3 hours when they get attacked by animals like Allo or Alberto when they can pick Dryo or Galli and only stand to lose an hour if they get caught? Para in the devs model can't flee as many animals as it is only agile, not actually fast, and yet loses substantial amount of time and Its a more enticing prey item than a Dryo which predators will give up trying to catch as it may not be worth the effort, because of its size. In general to add assets to a game without the intent of them being capable is a financially questionable course of action at BEST. Spending potentially hundreds of hours spread across several employees that all need to get paid for it to be modeled, rigged, animated, textured, receive sounds, coded for unique gimmicks and bug tested before release only for it's player base to be non existent is a waste... But also decimates employee moral. They see everyone defaulting to whatever has the highest bang for buck and control over engagements, usually apex carnivores and mid tier carnivores. Inherently the only time on official isle servers where herbivores were higher abundance than carnivores was Progression, for two reasons. Carnivores were much harder to keep alive as there was no AI spoonfeeding them and herbivores were much more dangerous than legacy or Evrima. Seeing a lone carnivore stalk a large herd or lurk near a hotspot and pick out a target opportunistically was scary because you knew if he made it that far he was above average as a player. The easy bang for buck was herbivores, they demanded less skill but in turn had a lower skill ceiling. None of these games have come close to recapturing this, Path had at one point been very close but they consistently nerfed herbivores like Iguanodon, Kentrosaurus, Styracosaurus, etc, into the ground. Anyways just know several isle QA do watch your content and most agree with you.

[@lomi7555]

Very nice comment, I didn't know about the thing about sub deinos it's insane lol, also I almost feel like that in many ways the game was far more balanced in the progression days as you mentioned with herbies

[@kenshinhimura9387]

I thought everyone knew about sub deino being super op. My friends and I have known for a long time. The Isle devs are clowns and have no idea how to make a video game. Btw the sty in path is very strong. I am undefeated to this day as a sty and I hunt apex with it. Rex, giga, allo, nothing can kill me and my friends. Sarco, deino they are all just punching bags for us.

[@whywatt733]

@@kenshinhimura9387 While Styraco is a menace, trust me when I say its a shadow of its former self. My friend and I would take 2 Stys and fight entire apex packs. It was overtuned as hell but very funny nonetheless lol. Then it got balanced, which was fine... then its attack rate got smacked, its charge added as a replacement for bleed and then that got nuked from orbit, while it kept the weaknesses it had to offset its old strength (that abysmal stam regen) Good news tho - on PTB its genuinely insane! Not glory days but damn close.

[@filippaustralovenator2.033]

And? Did ya know speed is a feature of ALL EXISTING sub adult crocks... They literally hunt stuff impossible later in their lifes.

[@whywatt733]

@@filippaustralovenator2.033 Realism is not a good basis to balance a video game around. If the game was realistic Stegosaurus would be one shotting most of the roster outright and bonebreaking the rest but wouldn't be able to move even half its in-game speed. Carnotaurus would snap its neck from a charge. Pachycephalosaurus would die if it rammed another Pachycephalosaurus head on. Tenontosaurus would only swing its tail side to side, would run on two legs at a significantly lower speed than it gallops ingame and wouldnt be able to kick things. Pteranodon wouldnt be able to skim and wouldnt take off by running, and would break its neck trying to bite at large animals while flying. Deinosuchus would oneshot the entire roster off a headshot bite, including other apexes like Rex. Trex would invalidate half the terrestrial animals given how mobile they were IRL and how agile they were and how endurant they were. Gameplay Balance > Realism Auto-lose matchups are not good gameplay, they do not require skill, they do not require effort and they discourage players from picking the animal that has auto lose matchups. This makes the money and development time behind that character a waste. As for crocodiles, they aren't faster when young, they tire out less quickly and dont expend as much energy accelerating. Aquatic animals rely very much on the size of propulsion over anything else to determine speed, its why an Alligator can swim faster than a Dolphin. A larger crocodile always outswims a smaller one and a smaller one is not necessarily faster on land either. Small crocodiles niche partition by hunting things adults would be wasting energy on, such as frogs and fish and birds. Its not that the adults cannot hunt these, its that it would be a waste of energy. They also hunt different prey because they live in different areas to adults, favoring plant cover to avoid being eaten by he faster, stronger adults.

[@paulprasek1475]

Small correction X: For all we know Hateg Island did not reunite with the mainland until after the extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs. What you and many others who claimed this were probably thinking of is the case of Europasaurus in the late Jurassic period. Magy also may have had Hatzegopterix as a possible predator, although even though that creature was MASSIVE it probably only hunted juvenile mini-sauropods. Overall though very well put together video as usual, keep it up! :) (Edit: spelling)

[@XZaguer]

Thank you for letting me know regarding my confusion with europasaurus, I did my research before creating the script but it seems I made a mistake, thank you for respectfully point that out 🙂

[@thenerdbeast7375]

The point still stands though, dwarf sauropods should not exist alongside full-sized predators.

[@paulprasek1475]

​@@XZaguer No problem, just something I noticed

[@paulprasek1475]

​@@thenerdbeast7375 Oh absolutely, this didn't weaken the point Zauger made at all

[@waranontwiwaha9385]

@@thenerdbeast7375 There is still some mysterious case of smallish sauropod coexisted with mega theropod though. Limaysaurus and Rayosaurus comes to mind. While they aren’t a dwarf sauropod, they are only around 15 metres long, and weigh around 5-7 tonnes. Yet, they coexist with Giganotosaurus, one of the biggest theropod that could see them eye to eye or may even stood taller than them, they are also in the same weight range, so there was definitely something that Limay and Rayo have in them that help them survive from predation when their size is definitely not that useful.

[@ItzInk]

I personally only use the sentence when some chump says that the low-tiers shouldn’t because “We can’t fight at all with this playable”. If you find an issue with this, then that means your play style doesn’t fit it, & just because it isn’t capable of fighting doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. After all, I find dryo & Herrera fun.

[@ItzInk]

Edit - because it fits my playstyle (forgot to add this)

[@ItzInk]

& I forgot to write should be added to this game. I’m lacking any form the brain cells

[@thunderclanwarrior1253]

Lions sleep for 17 hours a day (or something like that, can't check rn) because hunts are exhausting and they only manage it once every few days/weeks. If The Isle was claiming realism, then it's carnivores should be able to last long stretches of time without food because in real life predators are not guaranteed a kill for every hunt, therefore must survive long enough until they get a kill. But this can never be the case for a game that humans play because humans get bored and we want to do interesting stuff. This is where community servers with rules come in. I hope that eventually when mod support comes around (if they let us have it) that someone can properly balance the game to what an actual 'realistic' experience would be. Side note: Zauger, I've been looking for a video on The Isle's old progression system and I couldn't find any. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on it, if only in comment form. I think it would be a worthwhile mechanic to introduce to simulate a 'realistic ecosystem' and makes players play smaller dinos. There could be a way to save some progress where you die so you aren't immediately discouraged by losing everything. It would also make broken rex players a lot rarer and make them think twice about entering an encounter that might kill them... What do you think? I'm just curious since this was my favourite way the game was built and it was the time that I played the game the most, which makes me think it was fun for a lot of other people too.

[@ADumbPie]

Seeing how the paras playstyle is planned to be in the isle, confuses me, especially after I've gotten use to the para mod by pt in path of titans is, para when threatened, stands it's ground and defends itself, either killing a desperate carnivore or until the carnivore leaves the para alone, para isn't designed as a murder machine despite being able to 1v1 most things, it's entire gameplan is defend itself until left alone. Im honestly surprised the Isle didn't do something of that sort as i feel it just makes sense for large herbis to have defensive playstyles.

[@youtubealt243]

Tbf path of titans allows sub species so people just run triple defense para and fight trexes

[@nikolasdemoulin8093]

The isle isn’t like POT, though. POT is a clunky battle simulator where starving isn’t possible and all combat is almost always mutual.

[@eewweeppkk]

@@nikolasdemoulin8093 Gotta disagree with that, at least on the combat almost always being mutual front. And is it just the ease at which you can get food and water the reason you say you cannot starve or were you unaware of its food and hunger mechanics?

[@eyes5204]

@@nikolasdemoulin8093 the way they describe it, para in pot is easily a far better design than para in the isle. A 6.85 ton hadrosaur having to herd up and run away to live in an encounter with a 2.7 ton carnivore is one of the most outrageous fucking concepts i have ever seen from the isle.

[@corylance364]

The isle is not path of titans and the devs arent mods. We dont want the isle to become the same game as path of titans for many reasons. You go collect your acorns as a rex and let the isle have fun that makes sense.

[@Narsku8833]

Great video! Dryo is still the best playable in evrima. Yeah the game needs to focus on the survival side of things not the fighting side.

[@rylanbrewer3320]

I agree

[@modernmarrow1411]

I agree 100%, I also wish the game was more realistic, by that I mean, allowing more room for failure. Carnivore hunger drains FAST, leaving little room or time for failed hunts. Which I mean, you can't stay alive forever without eating, but I wish hunger drain was a bit slower, and herbivores were stronger, allowing more likelihood for failure in hunts.

[@justashark776]

I hate the hyper-fast hunger drain as well. It discourages the careful planning and coordination large predators should be using and instead encourages brainless blitzkreiging and surplus killing. Large carnivores should be difficult to maintain, but not to the point where they're forced to eat everything they come across. If anything herbivores should be the ones constantly foraging.

[@filippaustralovenator2.033]

Eat AI...

[@creakingskull7008]

In my opion Magy should have been added as the game's "joke character". Being so bad that you feel like a badass by surviving with it and using it to clown on people

[@team-tano9421]

We already have carnos and deino that kill hypsi and ptera despite not even being worth the food literally gives nothing, why do the devs think people won’t kill magy

[@steakinbacon8593]

Bro the reasons they get killed more often are 1 those Petra’s and hypsi’s were being annoying little shits and constantly harassing the carnivores. Or 2 they are the only thing near by carnivores can hunt and kill without being ganged up on by every herbivore on the server and getting denied their hard earned kill because herbivore players are fucking trigger happy bastards.

[@filippaustralovenator2.033]

Cuz it can put up more of a fight...

[@donzaibanzai7746]

Great video! I think its always fair to point out concerns and express them. Your channel does a great job of that. The main issue right now is we just dont know anything. We assume most of our stuff from concept art that could just be put there for artistic reasons or to try and show something we take as something else. Example. The concept doesnt say that Para will not be able to defend itself. Especially when its in the hands of players. Depending on how that stun/daze mechanic works that can be a form of CC that allows a herd to beat down a carni before it can recover. Questions like, does that sonic attack only effect a cone in front of the dino? Is Para immuned to this attack? Is it possible Para can circle mid tiers and shout it to death? Who knows. I dont personally see how magy will work but if its meant to be quick, and the model/animation matches it. Fine? It may just never make it to the game once they get into actual development of it and realize they cant make it work. Either way, this game always generates great topics to discuss and you do a great job capturing those.

[@nmheath03]

As much as I agree magy was a poor choice, justifying it can be better than "it tastes bad," maybe it could run of less food other dinosaurs of similar size, drink salt water, and be a good swimmer, allowing it to island hop and stay off the mainland. Also on an unrelated note, are there any dinosaur fighting games (actual fighting games first and foremost) besides Jurassic Park Warpath?

[@Godisgood007]

What type of advantage could salt water give? The majority of the players would want to stay at the center of the map, or atleast where it is more populated

[@Godisgood007]

Magy taking less food than other dinosaurs of similar size could work, but since food isn't much of a problem to herbivores then idk how impactful that would be.

[@lisaparder24]

For dinosaur fighting games there is the "combat of giants" series: "Battle of Giants: Dinosaur Strike" for the Wii and "Combat of Giants: Dinosaurs 3D" for the Nintendo 3DS.

[@kylehendricksilveralvin5376]

​@@Godisgood007 Just make it so it's diets can spawn on islands and you can swim there, making it like it's real life counterpart

[@Godisgood007]

@@kylehendricksilveralvin5376 That would be a extremelly niched playstyle, and what would stop big carnivores to just swim over to the islands for easy food? (considering we excluded it's intended abilities by the devs), and if you really want to follow realism, T-Rex were probably great swimmers due to their duck-like feet, wich helped them to go from island to island in search of food. Magy being in the game is just really redundant to me to be honest.

[@evantreffinger2009]

Thank you! I've been saying it for years. Herbavoires should be stronger and heartier than most if not all carnivores. Listen I get it, I love the meat eaters too. I typically prefer to play a hunter but, realistically herbs should be way more vialble. Even if you want to ignore real life animals it still makes more sense for herbs to be stronger, faster, heartier, etc. Otherwise what's the point? Yes, many players (such as myself) love the dinosaur game and play to experience dinosaurs. But, most players, even hardcore dino players, want to feel successful and "win" while playing the game. If herbs just suck compared to carnivores in general no one's gonna want to play. It's part of the reason I prefer POT, while the game isn't balanced yet and still due for a lot of updates. The quest system makes being a herb more fun since I'm doing more than walking, eating, drinking, and dying. Additionally most of the herbs are pretty decently balanced with the unbalanced ones getting updates this year (with the overall combat update). Now I'm not saying the isle isn't great, I love it too. But, if they want to market themselves as "realism and gritty" they need to acknowledge herbs should be more viable. This would encourage more herb players which would balance out the biggest issue imo, the population inbalance. Most players play carnivores not just because it's more fun but, because if it takes X amount of time to grow up as a large herb and it takes a similar amount of time to become a large carnivore, and carnivores are just stronger faster and more diverse then why would you waste time making a herb. I've had The Isle since 2013-2014, back when there was no growth, like 5 dinosaurs, and herbs could eat an entire bush or tree by pressing E (ah funny times). But as what is now Legacy became into being I've seen so little herbs. Granted the new system Ervima seems to have more predator prey balance however, looking at the new played dinosaurs I see that changing. In comparison I've had POT for less than a year and have seen massively more herbs than I've seen on the isle in years. Solo herbs, herbs, even herb vs herb. In fact my death ratio to carnivores vs herbs is something along the lines of 10-6. In comparison in the last 3-5 years of the isle I have rarely seen a herb player and when I do they are usually mix packing with a carnivore, which breaks immersion and feel cheap tbh. To wrap up , I love the isle and really support the idea of a more realistic mesozoic experience. But, if they want that they need to make herbs more balanced in comparison to the carnivores. Listen to your players devs.

[@smugreptile6695]

This kinda falls off when you consider that most people, especially on official or servers with no rules, don't play the animals as intended. Balancing based solely on realism terms is going to hurt both sides of the equation. Carnivore players already have a distinctly harder time surviving because they intrinsically have to kill other things just to stay alive. And while having them be overpowered hurts the game over all, having a carnivore being more powerful than its main herbi rival just makes sense balance wise. Herbivores don't have to kill other players to eat. Add in the no rules aspect as herbi players are notorious for going out of their way to revenge kill or just flat deny carnivores their hard earned kill. While usually balanced by carnivore players just killing everything they can cause lolz, this becomes a massive problem if Carnivores are consistently weaker than not only their main prey, but most other available options as well. Carnivores are by far the more popular animals, loosing the biggest portion of your playerbase isn't going to do the game any good. The diets being so broad doesn't really help. Focusing on one or two main interactions in the roster per animal will keep things grounded. At least diet wise. All in all stronger herbis is fine. Good even. But they shouldn't exceed their main predators unless thats their specific niche. If its a herd animal, it should run with a herd, thats part of the creatures nature and build. If its a solo tank, it should still avoid combat if it can, but be able to 1v1 its primary predator. With as fast as food drains, carnivores just cannot subscribe to the irl hunt success rates, especially when they are putting just as much time into their animal as everyone else. Now, if they drop the food drain significantly in carnivores, we could see a shift. If missing out on this hunt isn't going to result in you starving 20 minutes from now, carnivore players aren't going to be so gun ho about throwing their bodies in the meat grinder. This also encourages better hunting as a whole. If the herbi is stronger than you, you need the advantage to have a shot at taking it down. This also has the side effect of "hopefully" lowering overall herbi aggression. If you aren't getting constantly pressed by carnivores you can focus on the playstyle of your animal outside of combat, including rivals with other species for resources. I have yet to ever have a herbivore attack me as another herbivore. The video talks about predator bias, but excludes every herbivore player being down to herd up with, or at least help out, any other herbivore they encounter. "Forcing" negative herbi interactions with each other would also help with the herbi playstyle. If carnivores don't need to hunt unendingly and can focus on their things, and herbis don't have to chase down their food, that time needs to be taken up by something thats entertaining. Herbi v herbi conflicts is something they should consider.

[@reconsparten1981]

You also have to take unofficial servers into acount and that herbivore players consistently herd together making it near impossible to hunt them plus the herbivore players are consistently more agressive than carnivore players

[@antilarge7860]

As a new player it's the Full grown dinos that kill you as a fresh spawn/same race dinos hunting you which bother me the most. Then you have servers with rules which are unique and must be read on DISCORD and memorized.

[@DoeBoi04Art]

Great video, exactly what I was thinking, however I assumed personally that balanced meant fair, I wasn’t expecting every Dino to be the same only that they would all be capable of handling encounters with one another. Overall, love the pointing out of the predator bias, and bringing forth the fact that unsuccessful hunts are common is a pretty good thing.

[@kylehendricksilveralvin5376]

This right here, whenever I use the argument of it being a survival game I mean you should be to survive, not fight everything, if you can escape it, you kind of should. Here's hoping they make combat a bit worse on your playable so people are discouraged to do that and try to stay away from combat for as much as possible

[@discoshrew7403]

@@kylehendricksilveralvin5376 what a shit idea. Let’s nerf the only fun mechanic in the game and encourage people to spend more time hiding in bushes lol. I’m sure that’ll revive the player base lol

[@ProcyonDei]

"The Isle is not a fighting game." He snorts as he wipes his cheeto-dust covered fingers on his shirt before proceeding to spawn as a Hypo-carnivore to kill random players to "balance" the number of herbivores...

[@crabhater9373]

What I would do is replace magy with the sauropod that had a clubbed tail. It's still the "fast sauropod" that could also protect itself. If not, I would make magy a beach side specialist. Irl magy was an island dweller. Let it drink seawater and eat sea plants, and seaside fruits. They could even give magy that tiny island that is far from the main one. It would protect them from predators. It's attacks wouldn't do much damage but would be good at knocking animals over so it could deal a powerful stomp. It might be boring but it does the job. For para I think everyone slightly overreacted to the concept. I think they'll give it good stats. It's a popular dino, and if teno can be good against mid tiers, para can too.

[@stickthesecond5085]

i don't understand why people wanna keep buffing carnivores like op herbivores would just mind there own business for the majority of the game and make for more interesting and challenging fights, also predators get to CHOOSE when they engage a herbivore since herbivores arent REQUIRED to kill players just to stay alive vs op carnivores basically every herbivore player has to play hide and seek throughout the ENTIRE game just to be killed by a carnivore player. its boring as fuck at that point the only challenge there for them is for other carnivores to fight each other which mind you completely DESTROYS the realism argument because last time i checked predators didn't hunt each other all the time cause they got bored.

[@justashark776]

A lot of carnivore players in dinosaur games (looking at legacy and pot rexes mainly) want an apex predator facetanking power fantasy without using the skill, strategy and competence required to actually hunt a challenging prey item in the manner a predatory animal realistically would. They use realism when it's advantageous for a matchup with a herbivore playable and disregard it when it contradicts their bias.

[@Godisgood007]

I disagree with the first part, op herb players can also be duches and kill any carnivore they see on sight just for fun, the same would happen to op carnivores, tho that is more of a community problem

[@stickempires2608]

@Zelin Stego is pretty much the apex of evrima rn and even if they are slow they still kill a lot of herbivores that aren't ready to fight them. There's a huge community problem(which will happen in any game like this) where the strongest constantly kills it own species and anything beneath it making apex predators and herbivores usually have a very bad reputation. So making a bunch of herbivores insanely strong will just make them all kill each other anyway especially with group only talking.

[@gix.y]

I gotta disagree.. herbivores are more aggressive than carnivores are in this game, herbivores literally hunt eachother for sport because they get so bored. Buffing wouldn't be a good idea either for most of them. Just bc players aren't required to murder everything in sight doesn't mean they wont do it

[@gix.y]

@@stickempires2608 Not even deino can handle it lol...

[@DJ-fb9cf]

The more and more I see about the Isle the less I want to get involved... That and I think I prefer PoT's overall design a lot more, the more fantasy/ancient times rather than sci-fi really does it for me.

[@thefirstatom6731]

ye im gonna play the isle until its FINALLY done, PoT just also gets more updated than evrima so yayyyy more content

[@smefour]

PoT's combat though :/

[@takin7341]

​@@smefour combat update is literally coming in March and the updates from POT in just the last 3 weeks have been insane. Compared to the Isle which hasn't seen any major update in a year.

[@smefour]

@@takin7341 Hopefully, PoT does need a lot of work in the combat department, plays like most mmorpg's with hotbar button mashing :/

[@takin7341]

@@smefour yes a few dinos are just completely broken mainly the anky(I know it's not Ankylosaurus). They should not be able to take on 3 full adult t rexes and win lol.

[@teraheart391]

I think that parasaurolophus could be really good if the stun has an added effect that all damage done to a stunned opponent is doubled. Pack mates getting this effect mite make this a bit broken, if that doesn't work then a adrenaline ability that triggers when damaged [when bleeding] for 30 seconds that boots speed and damage by 1.3 but lowers heal rate could help. Good video, keep up the content.

[@thbran7417]

The isle para: Runs from ceras Beast of Bermuda para:Able to fight acros 1v1 and fight off large packs of mid tiers

[@benanders4412]

They'll just have to make some adjustments to the game and especially the map. Some ideas: #1 Biomes, nesting spots, escape routes and hiding places: Divide the map in different biomes. Give smaller animals enough places to escape, hide and safely nest where larger animals simply can't go or have a hard time. Borrows, caves, rock formations, dense Jungle, fallen trees, deep water, fallen trees over rivers and streams, hollow trees, small tunnels. Make it possible for some smaller species to climb trees, hop rock formations etc etc. This will work best within different biomes. Making the best nesting grounds the safest for the species. The food supply might also be adjusted per biome to give different advantages to different species. Example: Smaller creatures: Are mostly spawning and probably nesting on the edges of the map. These area's are not accessible by the larger creatures, and more difficult to navigate for the mid tier creatures. These areas can be dense jungle, rock formations and mountains, small streams of water, swamps, fallen trees over rivers and streams, hollow trees, small tunnels. Offering safe nesting space and plentiful food but limited in it's diversity. Mid tier creatures: Are mostly spawning and nesting in the In between areas, bordering the biomes for smaller and bigger animals. Separating the two. This area is accessible by all creatures. Smaller creatures might however have less cover and hiding spaces than in their spawning and nesting area in exchange of a more diverse food supply. While larger animals might still have a somewhat difficult time navigating the area. These areas could be less thickly, less overgrown jungle. Have some larger rivers in them, some open pastures, smaller rock formations. It offers something for everyone but will mostly suit the mid tier animals. Large tier creatures: Are mostly spawning and nesting in the large and more open grass areas dividing the map in 2-3-4. Here they have plenty room to maneuver and run at their maximal speed limit. Mostly open fields with good visibility. Larger lakes and river crossings. Plots of large trees sparsely separated from each other. Little oasis with plenty and diverse high quality food sources for herbivores, smaller and mid tier animals, tempting them to make the dangerous trip crossing apex territory. Some lonely but larger rock formations or canyons to hide in ambush. These areas might also have points that can be seen from large distance to help navigate the map , like a building, lonely mountain or volcano etc. #2 Natural selection, breeding and evolution: Adjust growth time, nesting, partner selection, egg incubation time, egg numbers per nest, fertility time and reproduction in general. I would opt for a genetic up-breeding tier system where players can slowly improve stats for their offspring by breeding with the right partner and eating the right diet. Make it possible for players to inspect their partner by for example sniffing them. Or maybe a mark left behind by a player {mark territory}. This gives players long term and team orientated goals and more to do in game, creating something like a dating simulator. People will also get more long term invested into the game by doing this. These buffs should be small and take many generations and a long time to max out. Breeding the perfect specimen should be a puzzle, team effort, long term commitment and a challenge. Giving somewhat realistic evolutionary effects. And might also influence skin color etc. Example breeding Tier system: F till A tier. Starting with all E tier if spawning in without being given an egg by another player. Every tier 10 points. Every stat a separate tier/point pool. Good diet parent for [stat pool] +1 point for that stat Perfect diet parent for [stat pool] +2 point for that stat Good diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] +1 point for that stat Perfect diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] +2 point for that stat Bad diet parent for [stat pool] -1 point for that stat Horrible diet parent for [stat pool] -2 point for that stat Bad diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] -1 point for that stat Horrible diet during hatchling stage [stat pool] -2 point for that stat Inbreeding takes a huge hit on the stat pool. And might even make offspring go back into the negative or F Tier. Risk and reward: The food supply might also be adjusted to give some species an easier time within different biomes. Forcing some species to travel more and take more risks if they want better breeding stats. Or play it more safe and stay within their own nesting biome where food is plentiful but limited in it's diversity. If the differences in growth time, nesting, partner selection, egg incubation time, egg numbers per nest, fertility time and reproduction in general are big enough, there will be more players and larger groups who opt for the smaller animals/herbivores etc and will max them out much sooner. Just like in real life, there will be much more smaller animals and evolution will go faster with the fast breeding species with many offspring over the larger animals with few offspring. A clan of small herbivores might be able to have perfect stats within a couple weeks, while a clan of T-Rexes might take many months. Losing an egg or young would also be a much bigger loss for a T-rex than for a herbivore, smaller or mid tier animal because of the lower number and larger time investment. #3 Adjust day/night times/visibility and introduce a more impactful sleep system #4 Adjust agility. #5 Adjust hearing distance. #6 Adjust smell distance. #7 Adjust AI spawning and intelligence. Making them travel between point A and point B instead of making them spawn randomly around players. This will create popular hunting spots for carnivores. Directing players to areas without forcing them there. Some bigger AI might also be able to defend themselves.

[@trik6979]

people who think carnivores should steamroll herbivores are the same people who believe Jurassic Fight Club is a good paleo documentary.

[@gou4715]

magy can be something not consumable for the most of the roster like poisoned meat affecting whatever eats him and prob die, but prob dinos like Cera will eat them witouht any issues ("just a terrible idea")

[@tunaozturk2639]

realistic game "makes a animal thats SIGNIFICANTLY bigger then rex (para) run awya from a virgi n allo lets not forget para was 13 fking tons irl

[@Godisgood007]

Fr man, really sad that even with the suposed *R E A L I S M* , they are still going with the coward run away strategy with the para, instead of the absolute behemoth It probably was.

[@Gelusss]

As someone going into game design and development i love your point about having a niche part about the dinosaur that makes it fun and how the parasaur was made wrong which honestly should be a quote in game development cause ur right it’s extremely important

[@sc2sc286]

"the isle isnt a fighting game".. well what else can you do in the isle? "um..uh..walk..eat...uh..walk..sit?"

[@wormwoodmain8385]

i just want utah to not be terrible again (i mean omni)

[@carbonfibercross5678]

I agree with some points but disagree with some as well. We have offensive herbis and idk why we are acting like they aren't there. Trike ,Dibble ,Shant ,Anky , Stego , Pachy etc. Look at the carnage in EVRIMA right now. Stegos own everything and Pachys easily fend off Utahs and Carnos. Also , I don't think they're gonna make Para completely helpless but I think there should be herbis that cant fight AS WELL as the others better made for it. Not every animal in nature is as suited to fight either, so why should The Isle have a bunch? You make the point of large herbis but in the same vid show Zebras that CAN defend themselves but they aren't as suited(thats why they run) as a Rhino and that's NATURE/REALISTIC. Not to mention its still the players choice to run. Nothing is stopping someone from sonic roaring and then attacking.(especially in a herd). Magy definitely needs to be changed in some way, or like others have said, swapped for Shunosaurus. Love these vids though, brings up interesting topics!

[@filippaustralovenator2.033]

He's acting, cuz otherwise this cryout wouldn't hold water..

[@jaykay5838]

Lion = King of the Jungle , Hippo= laughs in yeaah riight.

[@zozzoforte]

All that you said In this video is good and I totally agree with it but all these dinosaurs except for some lived in different places and eras so it is harder to make them balanced or better to say fair

[@Rubexo1]

Well yes Zaguer The Isle is not a fighting game. As people say it's a "dinosaur survival" game. Sure you fight to stay alive but it's more strategy than fighting. Staying in the right spots/situations at the right moment could lead you to evade any chances of death to others (in your case fighting). You don't "have" to fight you could also escape (being a herbivore), or even hunt AI. But anyway it is always up to the player and I hope the PVP gets enhanced in some sort of way to make every dinosaur have a weak spot. Like in legacy you could always tail ride which was a way of skill for advanced players.

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

this

[@Rubexo1]

Other than that the rest of the video was perfect and I agree with how the isle devs are shitting on good/cool dinosaurs and making them unplayable BUT still think that they are making them fun. (but they are not) 😂

[@No_name8374]

Tail riding isn’t a skill. It’s just abusing a poor movement “system”.

[@gix.y]

I mean sure you can just avoid fights and survive but there's nothing else to survive for in the game, so players end up getting so bored that they just fight until they die for the hell of it. Ik they're planning to add things like perks and elders but judging on how they've handled past updates, it's just gonna be overhyping an underwhelming update that comes out 3 years from now

[@_Dilov]

There are over 7 thousand languages and this guy chose to speak facts🥶

[@BlackReshiram]

whenever ppl be like "carnivores should be killing machines that all herbivores fear just like in real life!" im like allow me to introduce u to the capebuffalo or the rhino or the elephant bulls i can go on

[@PoutineItalienne]

Why in the world would I want to play a dinosaur surival game if fighting to survive was not a big part of the experience? I have had the same conversation and argued the same point as you countless of times with a lot of people in my community. To a point where I just got fed up by it and ignore this subject at this point. We already have "fleeing is the only option" type of dinosaurs, no one play them.

[@terrynichols4509]

I might be wrong but the music playing through the video sounds like the limgrave ost from elden ring

[@eduardomoura8414]

how meggy design is so poor that we talk about it everything and it’s not even in the game yet

[@awesomef0x724]

Its a shame Dondi doesnt take criticism, this is why games like Path of Titans and even the roblox game Prior Extinction are doing better in my opinion. They actually listen to the audience. We need some change in leadership, badly

[@adamc_vp77]

You know the most annoying thing about Magy? Why it was picked, the devs didn't sit down to discuss what animals would and wouldn't work, instead Kissen picked this thing because (and I kid you not) she thinks it's cute and now they have to figure out how to make such an unviable animal viable, could've picked countless other medium sized sauropods that would actually have a shot against most of the roster but no, we get this.

[@justashark776]

There are literally dozens of small and medium sized titanosaurs that look almost identical and can actually defend themselves. The thought process of the dev team is absolutely enigmatic.

[@tacocat1921]

I really wish they would have chosen a better sauropod than magy

[@HezrouDhiaga]

I won't play a game where half the playable dinos are basically meals on wheels. That's NOT how nature works at all.

[@huntercerny]

I just want to commend you on a fantastic thumbnail.

[@huntercerny]

Can I ask where you got it from?

[@dumbliz1477]

Now let’s hope the isle devs may take this idea into consideration

[@SPECTER1887]

What's the game in your outro?

[@gix.y]

"the game would potentially lose it's level of realism" *proceeds to make a DEINOSUCHUS significantly inferior to a stegosaurus of all things* Where's the realism in that, devs? That thing would *realistically* be able to crush stego's skull like a grape. They're so inconsistent with their game, one moment it's a lack of balancing for the sake of realism and the next they start "balancing" unrealistically.

[@twlightnightfall1315]

This honestly went down a route that I didn't expect. I've only ever heard this argument then presented for ruled vs no-rule servers, so this is was fresh take on it for me. However, I completely agree with your assessment.

[@glomarlt8620]

Amigo tienes voz para hacer documentales de vida silvestre.

[@lvl5dino749]

7 tonne wall of meat, not a 4 tonne one, that's Cory

[@carshadams]

nope para is 4 tons and cory is 7 tons

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

I geniuelly don't get this argument but overall I think this video does pretty well at explaining much of the concern or context to why certain discussions or topic are point on a poll. But overall this video was pretty great Lastly I wish y'all have a great day :D

[@TheDaikaijuDragon]

While the fighting game part may be true, as humans we act a way different way than these animals ever would and that in turn makes our gameplay different than what these animals would have done in real life.

[@lynx17012]

Devs mentioned that they have given each playable the tools to SURVIVE. So survival is main priority, Carnivores have to survive by hunting so they have tools to kill. Herbivores have to survive on plants but have to defend from predators so they have tools to defend, however these defensive tools are used offensively more than they could be used defensively for sport to kill, Pachy HUNTING Omni for no reason, Tenos challenging Carno 3v1 for a fight. Most herbis die coz of being so overly aggressive that they deplete their own stam which was supposed to be used to survive by either fighting or fleeing.

[@RemnantSoul]

Phone must have been listening to my conversation with my friend... We were speaking Path of Titans & The Isle differences, pros, cons etc. For the sake of comment length (this was longer than I thought) I'm just going to speak Isle topics... But we were speaking about the "Survival" theme, balance, and how public perception and person bias have effected the game. To avoid redundancy. The video touched on the truth of Carnivores vs Herbivores. IE: Herbivores should be feared. They are NO joke. However, the personal bias of the devs and the overglorification of Carnivores has created systems where the devs are: *Deliberately* designing Herbivores to be nothing more than walking meals. Parasaurolophus for example... Obviously it was not a "fighter" but neither are Elephants going off looks & stature. But they WILL defend themselves and when they do it isn't a joke and even the biggest predators often flee. (In nature the Hunt is really just ambushing and going for a quick kill.) Then there is incentive. Right now in The Isle gameplay itself is poorly designed in the Herbivore vs Carnivore topic. As Carnivores are given unique gameplay mechanics that make them 10x more interesting to play. Pounce, Grab, Drag, Skimming all Carnivore exclusive with the only shared mechanic being Charge (Carno & Pachy). So from a gameplay standpoint why play a Herbivore? Tenotosaurus has tail swings and a bite. Stegosaurus has tail swings and a bite. Pachycephalosaurus can charge & headbutt. Hypsilophodon can spit and (I believe) bite. Dryosaurus can run, bite, and juke. Carnotaurus can bite, drag, & charge with enhanced mobility and maneuvering. (Making traversal quick and interesting.) Deinosuchus can bite, drag, and grab, with gameplay allowing it to swim, ambush, and drown. (With the enhanced swimming creating an interesting traversal system) Pteranodon can bite, skim for fish, and fly. (A scavenger playstyle, but flight alone makes traversal interesting) Omniraptor has bite, pounce, and maneuverability. (Quick traversal with pounce adding a unique element to combat. Allowing a variety of tactics to be applied in battle, often leading to unpredictability.) So what's the key difference when you break these mechanics down? 1 "Faction" is inherently built from the ground up to serve as fodder/entertainment for other. Or to be even more blunt... There is only one faction in the game: Carnivores The other characters are optional NPCs that can be controlled. Built from conceptualization to do nothing but lumber around and provide minimal resistance when the true faction has need of them. If you look at Isle gameplay (streams) you'll see that 99% of it is as Carnivores. This is caused by: 1. A Very low cast of playables. 2. Carnivores have mechanics that make playing them interesting and thus their gameplay loop keeps players playing. Herbivores don't. Like Parasaurolophus has been revealed to be...they were designed to have a gameplay loop of: "Wander around and die." They honestly might as well remove Herbivores, make them AI, and just focus on Carnivores. Hell in 6.5 (whenever the next planetary alignment comes and it launches) comes out, it's adding Troodon & Ceratosaurus... So two more Carnivores. No Herbivores. So...what's that tell you? Imagine playing WoW and the Alliance only have Warrior, Mage, Rogue, and Priest but the Horde had Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Warlock, Mage, Hunter, and Shaman. (Which faction would you prefer to play as?) Last topic can this is longer than it sounded in my head... Ceratosaurus & Troodon both are being added with unique mechanics exclusive to them. Once again...they are indefinitely more interesting to play as. Right now, all Herbivores have going is too much power behind their attacks. Much like the Tank and spank bosses of old school MMORPGs...they just hit hard but are designed to stand there and just "take it" until they die. Who wants to play that? "I can't wait to go home, log on, and get eaten!" Survival games are supposed to be one where surviving is key. Yes. The devs aren't wrong is saying balance isn't happening. (A Compy shouldn't be 1v1ing a Rex) But... *Survival needs to be entertaining*. But it isn't, thus the game feels imbalanced, broken, and dull. Now the game is nothing but cannibal carnies mega-packing to kill anything that breathes. And even after Troodon & Ceratosaurus join...it'll STILL be nothing but cannibals mega-packing to kill anything that dares exist. Except we might see a handful of Ceras mixed in with all the Carnos. Ptera and Troodon share the same fate (DoA) so...yeah.

[@DracobeastOO7]

I agree with most of the video, tho I have never seen the devs say the game should be unbalanced for realism, they say they want balance and make players use skill to take down a much larger target than itself, from slightly larger go very large. Now I'm not disagreeing with the points you made, but I have not seen the debs when they're in the discord, questions I asked them was "could x dinosaur would beat y dinosaur" and they said "we want balance and make the player rely on skill, so yes if your skilled enough." Now of course that's now what they directly said, but it's the run down version of the answer i got from the devs, mostly kissen, when I asked the question. Now on the topic of actual dinos and their playstyles, yeah your right about that one, theirs quite a few dinos that have no way to very easily defend themselves or their gameplay goes against their anatomy, and magy and para respectfully fit into one another

[@G.oliath]

its just.. games like this where its time consuming and extremely punishing. people are allowed to flame you and complain if you're ruining peoples time, regardless if its out of place or not.

[@liamflanagin7134]

Making it even worse, the new small estimate for para is 10 tons... Im being serious the thing is bigger than a rex

[@Skyypixelgamer]

magy wasnt the sauropod that got killed of by invasive carnivores as that was europasaurus but magy still is just a bad playable . And shouldn’t really be here.

[@sergi3376]

I know people gonna blame me, but something like this happens in path of titans

[@whitefalcon630]

Forest is also not a Fighting game but Fighting is an essential part of it. In the Isle we don't need fully animated fighting but it could be a little bit more tacktical than just hitbox hitting. -armour -passive defences -dodge -fake biting -intiminating -pushing -toshing -tugging -pulling -biting and don't let it go. Etc...

[@jasondean612]

hit the nail on the head here, good take again

[@oldscorp]

Wouldn't it be awesome if Parasaurolopus actually did spit fire? Or scalding volatile chemicals that boil in contact with air at least, like the bombardier beetle.

[@smefour]

Good points, but keep in mind this is a work in progress, and so far herbs in this game have been more that capable of handling themselves to the annoyance and complaints of carnivore players, your also highlighting beasts that haven't been added yet, there is a lot that will be sorted in time.. but it's good that your bring up your points so the Devs can be mindful of them :)

[@pyrrhusofepirus8491]

The thing that’s always kept me from The Isle is that, to be perfectly frank, it looked really, really boring to actually play. When you actually get to it, all you can really do in the game is grow, hunt and partake in bad fighting mechanics. Moreover, you’re not building up to anything apart from growing. The rest are gimmicks and only serve to make KZbin cinematics of. The only real fun or thrill I can see out of the game is hunting and being hunted, and of course, fighting. So, add serious fighting mechanics, like targeting and biting different parts of the body, dodging, shaking, buffs and de buffs with roars and intimidation.

[@McChickenIsNotReal]

Magy should just have a puke mechanic like hypis or remove it and have a better small sauropod for it like the one that has the armor back and a clop for a tail.

[@ender_z4nd3r83]

luckily rn all herbis are stronger than the carnivore of their same size, pachys >omni, teno>carno and stego>deino

[@lilvalko5096]

ive always argued for herbavors to be stronger, i am a predator fan but i like the game for the realizim it trys to provide and like mentioned in this video it makes no sense that almost every herbavor in the isle is potrayed as a docile or skittish prey animal waiting to be killed. now not every herb is like that and due to community behavor ive seen "hunting" parties of herbs going around the island to kill any predator in sight, so clearly people dont play the intended way all the time. and sometimes it does feel opressive because just like a fighting game people in the isle have a predisposition to pick "meta" dinos which does effect gameplay as a whole. "why play raptor if everyone is stego or teno/why play dryo and pache if everyone is carno and deino" is a mentallity i despise with a passion and why i do believe the game does need balance, even if it isnt realistic. at the end of the day the majority of people wont play a dino if it just isnt good (except ptera), its fun maybe 1 or 2 times playing the under dog but after your 6th or 8th time playing it, it starts to get very wearing especially if there is no counterplay. in the end the isle is seen or rather played like a fighting game, and as such i do argue it needs extensive balancing to make all dinos viable and fun to play.

[@lomi7555]

Hey X Zaguer first of all wanted to say that I love your vids they are really well made and I can only hope that The Isle devs watch them since they could learn a lot and make a lot better game in doing so. Secondly I wanted to talk about something that really bothers me in the isle Its about ai, I think that ai in The Isle (talking about legacy version here never played evrima) kinda ruins the purpose of the whole game and what i am saying here is that carnivores in the isle technically never have to hunt another player since they can solely eat ai that spawns and never really worry about food (which eliminates the whole survival aspect of the game and plus encourages carnies to mixpack with herbies and even promotes KOS/or hunting for sport because eventually you will just get bored since you don't have to manage anything and think ahead about survival and plan meals/hunts etc). Now i'm not saying that ai should be totally removed from the game, what i'm saying is that ai should be only sustainable for juvi dinos and for adults it should only prolong an eventual starvation if you don't find food in time (which would in turn force players to think in advance about hunting and risking it, also hunger bar for adult dinos should be much bigger so you can last without food much longer). Also why i think this would be a nice change is because Isle is currently is filled with players that only play apexes, players that just afk around making suicide eggs and creating big mixpacks since again they don't have to worry about food even if they are a huge pack of apexes they can only be sustained by ai which i think is not fair, big packs should have a benefit of a bigger hunting success rate but also be a lot more food demanding so you would really have to judge the risks if its worth it to be in a pack if there is plenty of food to go around it would be great if not you would eventually become cannibals and start killing pack members just to survive. In short i think it would create a much more realistic portrayal of an actual ecosystem, decrease in amounts of apexes and mega packs also it would make more players to play herbies since it would not be as demanding to survive and would make the game more interactive for the players. I would really love to hear your take on this

[@lomi7555]

Also another thing that would be an interesting topic is a progression game mode, I think overall it had some advantages over an survival counterpart mostly because in progression you could at any point play the game and not feel useless (I know surprising xD) mostly because you never played as a juvi animal in progression and always where capable of hunting something and surviving. Survival currently is more or less forcing people to afk grow because as a juvi you literally can't do anything you can't escape from stuff you cant defend from anything it's just the most boring ass gameplay until you reach an 100% adult

[@altercard5389]

The isle if X was in charge of balancing: (insert hyper advanced futuristic civilisation meme)

[@ziosans3589]

i feel like when they say "its not a fighting game" they actually mean, "its not a game where you are supposed to clash" like those fighting game you mentioned, where you only purpose is to fight, the isle want you to just survive and gives the tools to do so, the only problem the isle really has is the non curable mixpacking rn if we want to be real, im not against it, but if we wanna be fair it kills the balance, like having 5 stegos and 5 dinos being on the same side, u feel not safe in one area cause u cant drink nor walk without being jumped by them, same as the other species like carnos being with pachys etcetera (this comment was made after listening half video btw)

[@ziosans3589]

(finished the video) when we talk about unbalanced stuff we can just see at how a deino bite on a stego's head that is THAT small does not asmuch damage as it should, not natural to me

[@alunaticwithashotgun9840]

about magy I %100 agree, but when it comes to Para I'll have to disagree with you, despite being a large hadrosaur Para is not built that bulky, at least in The Isle, unlike Shant for example, this doesn't mean The Isle has a carnivore bias, well at least not anymore, the state of herbivore playables are nowhere near what they used to be in legacy, the majority of herbivores are much stronger than their carnivore counterparts, for example pachy can easily defend itself against carno, a carnivore more than 3 times it's size. But this doesn't mean every herbivore has to be the same, I'd say it's a completely good thing to have para have to run away from most things, seems like most other herbivores are gonna be agressive killing machines anyways, The Isle roster already has enough badass agressive herbivores, if anything we need more things that mostly rely on running away

[@CesarLiberatus]

What do you mean they don't want to balance the game? They are barely able to even bother with the game and it's content at all, much less balance it out.

[@Akaryusan]

usually im hit or miss on some of the points you make but i emphatically agree with this.

[@vraptork181]

In particular it makes me feel unhappy that the devs listen to what they want to, I can say what I want outside of their discord safely but inside I can’t say my own opinion or disagree with a dev. Right now I stay in the discord I ask questions and genuinely want the best for this game but if I can’t say my opinion safely without a dev personally calling me out. But here when they brought up balance and “not a fighting game” I agree for the most part however I do believe in balance and everything should have a fighting chance. Giving this as an excuse to make apex’s over powered and bad gameplay designs but they need to be capable and being fun or play they need to take a second to understand sometimes the community knows best and I don’t understand why we have to make the point that balance is important

[@filippaustralovenator2.033]

Fighting chance=realistic chance and not a moba/pot bs "ability" mash.

[@ReeseasaurusRex]

THIS! Claws and teeth arent the only variables to take into account when deciding how capable something will be in combat. Para for example, is a HUGE animal. If it decided to shoulder check even something like a Rex, that animal would topple over and probably be badly injured.

[@DailyCommentorr]

I watched this video in full and here’s my response, would love to hear your take on this! Yes, I believe The Isle LEGACY isn’t and is a fighting game. When someone says “fighting game,” I think of Valorant, COD, fighting games as you just showed, etc. I do not think of any dinosaur game such as POT, BOB, or The Isle Legacy or Evrima. Now, the problem is, The Isle Evrima made it so that it IS a fighting game- for carnivore players. That’s the life of a carnivore. The reality of it is that these herbivores and cannibalistic carnivores need to get diets and nutrition to help boost their characters in one way or another. How does that happen? By fighting. You can’t get all your diets from strictly AI, it’s implemented in a way where you have to fight at some point throughout your life, even as a baby which sucks. I think it’s nice to have a diet system, but I wouldn’t say it’s not a fighting game. It’s SUPPOSED to not be a fighting game, but the reality is that it is. POT is a perfect comparison for not being much of a fighting game. There is no diet system instead having an in game currency system players can use to unlock perks that then buffs their dinosaur. Albeit POT is set up to be more MMO and questie rather than pure and total survival like The Isle, the questing system in my opinion stops the need to constantly fight. In order to grow quickly and unlock abilities to buy, you need to quest. The Isle has an on going grow cycle, so you don’t necessarily need to have diets in order to grow, so it allows even more room for players to step out of bounds when they are at their most powerful and can then go on a killing spree. Just like the devs predict with apexes on official servers. Killing sprees. They don’t want to see 100 rexes running around with a perfect diet of having literally everything on its diet list including its own kind, going around mass slaughtering. With leaving that up to non-official servers that have realistic rules that alter the way the game can be played (whether it is or isn’t a fighting game), it keeps the official servers as a “SUPPOSED to not be a fighting game but instead a survival horror game” while allowing rules servers to set boundaries and ban those that don’t follow it more effectively.

[@Backroomz]

Bro the whole reason people play is to grow and fight - the devs really don’t understand their own audience and I have a feeling the game will be more broken then the first

[@eewweeppkk]

Disagree. I play it because I like dinosaurs. The existence and wild popularity of realism servers is a testament to the fact that people DON'T want to fight constantly, or at least that there is a significant playerbase that doesn't care for it.

[@kenshinhimura9387]

​@@eewweeppkk um.... what? Everyone I know who plays these games is only interested in 1 thing and that is hunting and killing other players.

[@eewweeppkk]

@@kenshinhimura9387 So you're just going to ignore my point about the multitude of fully populated community servers that have rules in place specifically to prevent mindless hunting and killing? If the interest is in "hunt and kill" and not just the dinosaurs, why even play this game? Its mechanically incredibly simple and offers very little reward for such activities compared to the hundreds of other very active PVP games out there. There's a reason one in every ten servers is dedicated to PVP solely, while many more have rules in place to reduce PVP. Not saying PVP isn't a big thing, but you're just completely wrong to say that the whole reason people play is for PVP.

[@mikey-qe9op9fv9w]

​@@eewweeppkk true even in path of titans community realism servers are the most popular servers. Even most of the non realism community servers have strict rules against stuff like kosing, fighting near waystones or homecaves etc.

[@snedbag1727]

Swear i can hear the limgrave theme

[@EepySsleepy]

Yeah I heard it too fellow Tarnished lol

[@chaoticcatartist]

As para in legacy i was able to defete allo as them. The ability fight back with a good and well timed kick. I pray to god they dont nerf it so that i cant defend myself from allo

[@maddough8072]

I think we need to first fix the developers before these kinds of videos will matter because the developers are not listening and they probably wont ever until new developers take over. It would be a miracle if they just suddenly started listening to us without disregarding almost every single criticism.

[@corylance364]

Stego and anky are my biggest peeks of intrest. In legacy these two were unsurvivable. Slower than an apex with not enough health to survive did not serve them well. Rex, giga, and spino are my next concern when meeting eachother. In my opinion they did giga dirty in legacy. Spino should rely on water for a speed boost to win a fight with a rex or giga and be slower on land forcing it to eat mostly aquatic life or semiaquatic life. Giga and rex should be a more balanced fight, rex would win 1v1 but giga should have its chances too. Perhaps both rex and giga could have grapple attacks for their alt attacks. Latching on with their mouth and holding the other in place. The rex cracking bones and causing high damage with its powerful bite while the giga can rip into the flesh and cause serious bleed. The fight is determined by numbers or who got the first bite. If the giga got the first bite hes fast enough to escape to distance and follow the rex until it bleeds out. The rex grabs the giga and crushes the gigas wind pipe and the giga dies of asphyxiation. Stamina determines how long the bite can be held. The longer the giga holds the more bleed and damage it causes but the less likley it is to escape without stamina. The rex cant run out of stamina before the giga dies or it wont die of asphyxiation it will just be injured heavily.

[@NoMaidens_GoTouchGrass]

The thing I don't get about the Rex v Giga concept is they both had different perks that equally balanced them out. The Giganotosaurus was just a South American Rex to a certain degree, faster but with a lesser bite PSI with teeth meant for gripping and tearing. So it still puzzles me to a certain degree that they aren't equally balanced in a way that gives them both a chance. Most engagements I've seen is unless the giga recognises what he's doing (i.e a experienced player) the rex will stomp over 3/4 of the time. I think your way is a good way to balance it out, but another way is through making their bites stronger and weaker with different characteristics. Such as the T-rex has better damage but it has a cooldown to use, such as 15 seconds inbetween bite for the T-rex The Giga has better bleed damage but it has a cooldown to use to 12 seconds to give the Giga a decent chance at either escaping or continuing the battle

[@corylance364]

@@NoMaidens_GoTouchGrass cooldowns are more of an rpg style game. Not very realistic. Stun and pin abilities would serve better. Head butt stuns same size or bigger knocks over anything smaller. Alt bite pins anything smaller to the ground or latches onto anything same size until out of stamina or release. Rex asphixiates anything in its jaws giga shreds and thrashes for massive bleed.

[@corylance364]

@@NoMaidens_GoTouchGrass picture a rex pinning an allosaurus to the ground by its neck. Crushing its neck until it suffocates or the rex runs out of stamina.

[@NoMaidens_GoTouchGrass]

@@corylance364 Fair enough

[@NoMaidens_GoTouchGrass]

@@corylance364That's a good point

[@corylance364]

Your also only concentrating on 1v1 issues. Stegos in a herd would be able to fight a few rex and kill them. The devs said stego will be made stronger once apex comes out and teased an upwards tail swing meant for head shots on a rex. They said the stegos tail attacks will be chargable for increased damage. This would 1 shot a carno probably 2 shot a dieno. They said paras ability to yell will confuse predators and send them off balance. They said the more paras yelling the more effective it is. I dont think para will be running from anything. I think they will be standing in a line at the edge of the water. Yelling in a group to the point a rex wouldnt be able to tell what direction hes going and be forced to run away.

[@stickempires2608]

you also have to realize with a much poorer optimization than most that most dinosaurs wont have a whole lot of each other to choose from. Dinosaurs need to be balanced in a way they can survive on their own or in small packs at least somewhat effectively when their is a small limit of players. Something like para needs to at least have a decent amount of health so it doesn't just get torn apart by like 2 raptors on its own. Especially with only chat available between your own species its hard to communicate with other packs. So big herds like in legacy are far less common and people trust each other a lot less. So you can't rely on a dinosaur made to depend on other species.

[@corylance364]

@@stickempires2608 each species is being balanced baised on realism. You cant make an anky run faster than a rex or a pack of allos but you can make it strong enough to fight both. Some species however arent so lucky such as stego. Its not armored like an anky nore is it low to the ground like an anky. Its 2 tons lighter and only a bit faster. I would balance it by giving it more stamina than a rex and giving it the same top speed. That way when its solo it can keep its distance from a charging rex until it finds a herd. Mixed herds are common on this game and its not a requirment to find the same species. Stegos are however very common and very dangerous in a herd. Para in legacy was fast enough to escape to water for safty inspite its low combat ability it was one of the lesser meals i ever got to enjoy. In Evrima the water isnt as safe right now but dont forget they are adding deinochirous to the game. That duck billed murder duck would rip a deino in half with a smile on its face. Para herds could follow them symbiotically for crock protection and para offers apex alarm and the ability to confuse and set the apex off balance while the murder duck goes to work with its claws.

[@corylance364]

@@stickempires2608 lastly you cant make everything strong fighters or carnivores would never get a kill and would just starve to death.

[@stickempires2608]

@@corylance364 im not saying make everything incredibly strong, but having a dino like para focused solely on running away is a terrible idea. It's why there has been so much community backlash on magy if u think the devs care about realism take a single look at what they have proposed for magy. Faster than a fucking allo are you kidding me. Anyway back to para it should be able to defend itself from a lot of mid tiers and small tiers. It shouldn't be based on running away from any single dinosaur that comes its way and needs a way to kick things off of it when it does get in a situation when it needs to fight. Also mixed herds aren't very common in my experince at all. he only "mixed herds" I usually see is one species with maybe 1 or 2 smaller ones and huge mixpacks of carnis and herbis. Im sure that will improve but you can't base having dinosaurs that can't communicate on relying on each for survival.

[@corylance364]

@@stickempires2608 i dont recall them ever saying para wont be able to attack. Paras special ability might not cause damage but they never said para wont have an attack.

[@zestybomb]

Magy should still have poison flesh... but it makes carnis throw up when BITING them!!

[@GEK0dev]

“Sandbox has left the chat”

[@JustAnObody812]

No, Isle's not a fighting game. HOWEVER, fighting is inevitable in a survival game. You will need to defend yourself, steal a kill or even kill for food (excluding mindless killing for fun). What i mean by 'it's not a fighting game'; it's not deathmatch.

[@touhouandvocaloidfan8682]

Path of titans suffer from the same things i think its kind of similar but i gotta say i agree overall for the isle so far , the only thing i wait from them anymore is the cerato returns but honstly i know my hopes should not be very high sadly

[@lisaparder24]

I think it's the other way around for PoT. PoT's herbs are way stronger than its carnis. A decently smart Eotrike can fight everything in the current roster.

[@kade-qt1zu]

@@lisaparder24 Not to mention Anodontosaurus (which isn't wrong by the way, ankylosaurs were one of the most well-defended dinosaur groups should ano should be OP).

[@tyrantdiablos4484]

You my friend are talking absolute sense, I'm witnessing the same kind of carnivore bias in path of titans, I cannot stand the fact that huge hadros hitting their tail full force against something half its weight does basically nothing, they should run first and foremost but still pack a mean kick etc when cornered

[@filippaustralovenator2.033]

It should do nothing cuz that tail bs in PoT is pure fiction, just like poison scales and poison puffing dragons, and hopping...

[@reptillicus4753]

Dude even Diplodocus would be better than Magy. It had a long tail they theorized it used it like a whip. Imagine a thrash ability that it can use to lash out at anything in a certain radius, while violently whipping its head around like a giraffe.

[@Sonstbenannt]

Thank you my friend.

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

​I mean. its not tho? its a survival game, and fighting IS a part of survival, but there is so much more. you simulate the life of an animal, and animals do a lot more then just fight all the time. Plus some of the dinosaurs arent even combat oriented at all

[@Manny-qf8ky]

Legacy is just feed and grow simulator then it turns into a deathmatch lmao

[@ash074]

There is nothing to do other than combat when you get to adult really, you have to be fair here there isn't much depth the the basic game loop at all

[@Patrick3183]

@@Manny-qf8ky legacy should be taken offline tbh

[@gix.y]

You just walk around and eat food, you can nest but that only provides roleplay experience and gets boring fast. All you can really do is fight, you're not simulating an animal's life if there aren't enough mechanics to do so.

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

@@ash074 But not all the dinosaurs are combat oriented, what about dryo and hypsie and stuff

[@Hexa9501]

In general I think it just boils down to the player. Some Poeple just like thr isle for what it is, a dinosaur game and don't want to nessacarily fight or hunt. For most isle is about the pvp, hence why creatures like Hypsi and dryo are unpopular

[@squeezyjibbz7407]

So basically carni players want to feel unstoppable and for herbis to be weaker so they can enjoy the game more. Typical self-important players. 🙄

[@cerato_brutus8248]

I don’t agree with most of what your saying here. The majority is speculative and without real evidence from words from the devs. When did they say magy was gunna be faster than allo? Why are we talking about animals that aren’t in the game yet when you could easily have this convo about the roster as is now and talk about it’s balance there? This is a misleading video to try and get rid of playables.

[@IndominusRex-wc1ey]

Kissen had stated a while back that it would be unlikely allo ends up faster than magy, and defends that statement iirc to this day

[@cerato_brutus8248]

@@IndominusRex-wc1ey where’s the the quote regardless she isn’t the balance dev she doesn’t have last say on that

[@korniestpatch]

It’s not, it’s a survival game.

[@bestuan]

5:17 I'm positive they went extinct because of the k-pg mass extinction

[@nikolasdemoulin8093]

I’ve never heard people say balance isn’t the point of the game only when speaking on carnivores. The number one complain in the isle right now is that the STEGO is “too op!!”. And in response we rightfully say this isn’t a fighting game where all animals are equal and able to kill eachother on a level field. Not sure where you got the “carnivore bias” thing from. Sauropods should clap all carnivores easily. It’s the “Muh BalaNce!” Guys who say that’s not fair.

[@vladline1882]

NPC/AI dinos with it's behavior = Less player complaining of getting killed.

[@GEK0dev]

If you didn’t know, Parasaurolophus is actually larger than rex, By the way that is the largest theropod, These things get up to 13 tons.(Para I mean)