y'all need to stop with the "manly men" stereotype [RANT]

I like my tea salty 🧂🧂🧂
Music: Hall of the Mountain King by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.fi...
License: creativecommons...
____________
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My merch: bit.ly/2CCq5jE

[@doratheace]

The noble men in the past would look at today's wealthy man and refer to him as peasant regarding clothing.

[@darlalathan6143]

And ancestry. And artistic tastes...

[@cmays7094]

LOL!

[@hookyhook6006]

@Karin Korenkova BRING BACK THE CLOAK!!!

[@sableaskew8074]

@@hookyhook6006 yes yes yes! I love cloaks!

[@kyab2815]

@@hookyhook6006 yes

[@3nu570]

"A manly man relies only on his pockets" sent me

[@IJustWantToUseMyName]

Unless he is married, then he makes his wife put whatever in her purse. I remember telling my ex “just get a satchel!”

[@emilyonizuka4698]

@@IJustWantToUseMyName my dad always makes fun of men with purses then asks my mum to carry his stuff in her purse

[@sadiemcc9363]

*Looks back at the gigantic women's pockets of the 1700s*

[@Poppy-]

I actually saw, last Friday, a man in kilt with a overlay matching pocket! My only thought: right on!

[@zejdland]

Testosterone has been decreasing very fast in western men

[@Mazou-tj4ne]

Fun fact: The Greeks considered the Persians "unmanly", because they wore trousers.

[@onewayticket2148]

Nice lol

[@elifdurmus8243]

Reference?

[@Iloverollerskatingandgirls]

@@elifdurmus8243 reference ? That’s a fact lmao, I’ve studied Greek culture and religion. Even their gods are depicted wearing dresses and such, fun fact: most Greek people and Greek gods were openly bisexual.💀

[@thomaskole9881]

@@elifdurmus8243 I think Herodotus at least mentions it, and maybe Thucydides. The Greeks (and later Romans) regarded trousers as a sign of barbarity and indirectly femininity, because the peoples living on their borders (Celts, Parthians, Scythians, Germanic tribes) wore them and chose practicality over aesthetics. Which to some Greco-Romans denoted that those people had not advanced their civilizations far enough.

[@foreverinafantasy]

The romans considered the gauls "uncivilized" for the same reason.

[@Opus566]

I hate how 'masculine' clothing on a woman is seen as "empowering", "powerful" whilst feminine clothing on a man is seen as "degrading", "unmanly" and "weak".

[@monbub]

wow we should be saying this more

[@junkoenoshima2756]

'masculine' being good and 'feminine' being weak sounds a lot like the patriarchal views that men are strong women are weak so the idiots who think that and think thar they're empowering women are wrong they are in a way strengthening the patriarchal views but using masculine and feminine instead of men and women

[@jarvisjackson4833]

@@junkoenoshima2756 feminists reinforce these idea of female weakness with how fragile they are.

[@seraphywang4638]

@@jarvisjackson4833 Wait, feminists perpetuate this? I thought they fought for equal gender rights?

[@jarvisjackson4833]

@@seraphywang4638 They're more like authoritarians telling everyone what to do.

[@dorothyyoung8231]

I love Eddie Izzard’s remark. When asked why he was wearing a woman’s dress he replied that it wasn’t a woman’s dress: It was his dress; he bought and paid for it himself!

[@anotherlemontree]

YES. Thank you.

[@monochromedream-eatingbaku]

That's the attitude everyone should have towards clothes tbh.

[@sarroumarbeu6810]

Great reply

[@Thenoobestgirl]

I love that!!

[@jadedbelle4788]

I love eddie izzard. He was the first gender non conforming person i had seen *anywhere* that wasn't some sterotype or joke character on tv. The older i get the more i realise how ahead of his time he was

[@dracawyn]

The fact that men stopped wearing thigh high leather boots on the reg is one of the greatest fashion tragedies of all time.

[@fridaychinatown6172]

😔✋

[@hideakisorachi3953]

aight, time to single handedly bring back this fashion trend the second I can afford it

[@alejandroojeda1572]

RIP

[@apollostarwars1342]

😪

[@DonnyDunne]

I'd love to wear the fab leather boots, but no exageration, i would probably be beaten with where i live >.>

[@nicolassanslopez3370]

A little girl, like 7 years old, came to the priest of my school (who is 30) and said "you have a beautiful dress!", and he just tell her "oh thanks!". I was laughing so hard, this man is a legend XD

[@killiansirishbeer]

That's gold 👍😂

[@ElyWill]

These men aren’t the men that Candace is speaking of about returning to. It’s just a repeat of today. Just a different era. Basically men that dressed like this are doing what’s in fashion and what’s trendy back in these periods; as far as fashion is concerned. You took it quite literally. Harry Styles is doing the same thing. It’s just what is in fashion or shocking for today to be controversial or daring. Blurring the lines of gender, which is also a trend and has become normal according to media and liberal outlets. Candace was speaking about masculinity in character and personality. Which is what we need more of today, many bow down and kow tow the media and liberal agenda immediately and become self hating men. It has leaked into all arenas if you are a straight heterosexual male and worse if you are a Christian. These men she speaks of are absolutely apologetic about being a man and don’t respect themselves enough to be unapologetically proud about who they are as a man. We need more of the latter and that’s why so many agree with Candace. Her remakes resonate with so many millions of us and your view of what she says makes her seem as if she was stereotyping in a negative way. But these men who fought wars, who sacrificed wholly and entirely for liberty, freedom; to protect their rights and family along with their neighbor seem to be extinct or very few and far in between. We do need these men again. Not some peacock or fops who care about making fashion statements to stay relevant or sell their products. Our freedoms are at risk and have become squashed with the unconstitutional lockdowns. Harry Styles is an embarrassment to himself and his sex. He is clearly a male, clearly a pop culture media and entertainment celebrity who just does what’s trendy. He has an entire production team behind this. He’s appealing to his fan base and the movement of the alphabet group. He has sacrificed nothing, won by popularity and looks, is as charismatic as a cigarette butt championing nothing but his own reputation and fame. I’m with Candace.

[@yozha92]

@@ElyWill why are u keep copy paste your comment like it's so Revolutionary it need to be on every comments section or u just didnt have any comeback what so ever

[@mellie4174]

@@yozha92 yup!

[@TheVip113]

@@ElyWill Uh... I don't know much about Harry Style to defend him but I don't think degrading a person is a good thing to do.

[@Benandleo2]

6:03 Fun fact: pink was originally made for men because it is more vibrant, blue was made for women because it is a soft color.

[@Lobboi]

Ahhh yes I see that peecocks were certainly teaching humans how to get mates

[@helen4876]

Yep, but then they switched over time in around 1940 I believe (I could be wrong)

[@christianjavier693]

Actually it was originally because pink was associated with red which was the colors of war, and blue was associated with women because it was the color of Mary (Jesus' mother)

[@JammWashere]

That's what my teacher told us lmao

[@kingbaguette1843]

This is actually untrue and has no evidence to back it up

[@LoonybinEscapee]

Hotel: Versailles was not stupid, I will die on this hill

[@ReptilianTeaDrinker]

Legend.

[@ameliar6374]

That was my favorite part

[@wistyfish9844]

Oh thank goodness someone wrote this in the comments, mom’s accent+my auditory processing problems meant that I watched that clip 3 times, just heard gibberish, eventually thought I heard Versailles and then gave up on the joke.

[@rockswe]

I don't understand the joke. Could you explain, please?

[@LoonybinEscapee]

@@rockswe it's a riff on the "hotel? Trivago" commercial that turned into a meme, basically somebody asks a bunch of irrelevant questions, finishes them with obvious answers and then apropos of nothing, ends the commercial/meme with: Hotel? Trivago

[@asafupps]

Imagine being a masculine woman back in the day and expressing that by wearing pink, high heels, and tights- different times

[@asafupps]

@CCP Alcohol beverage called Corona Hell yeah

[@asafupps]

@@koreansavior1059 Wot

[@asafupps]

@@koreansavior1059 The comment is about masculine women

[@asafupps]

@@koreansavior1059 What does that have to do with my comment?

[@koreansavior1059]

@@asafupps it's gay. Maybe the correct term is lesbian.

[@usernamenotfound6515]

“Because as we all know; colours are reserved for females.” Male peacocks: 👁👄👁

[@ijerry7511]

Technically all peacocks are male

[@schabowy6149]

@@ijerry7511 true, male peafowls are called peacocks

[@ijerry7511]

@@schabowy6149 yeah

[@oliviarouse2361]

Most male birds really 😂

[@Retrosenescent]

All male birds 👁👄👁

[@violetpinkpanda]

“colours are reserved for women” not true men have black, dark grey, light grey, white (sometimes), slate, coal, maroon, very dark red, navy blue, midnight blue, dark blue, forest green, dark green, light blue (if shirt) and all shades of denim 🙄🤚

[@junkoenoshima2756]

And look at all the colours their eyes can be

[@emaurgirl]

VIVI CULT

[@moonjae-in12thpresidentofr20]

Forgot very dark purple

[@tinytan6559]

Truly an exciting array of choices.

[@rev.9683]

Bright colors she meant

[@cnscaevola]

Don’t forget the Romans thought wearing pants was feminine!

[@savannahsummers7833]

Julius Caesar wore a miniskirt

[@2b2a29]

I thought the Romans viewed them as barbaric

[@arthursimsa9005]

Did they? Where does that notion of yours come from? I know Celts wore trousers and Romans did not, but I don't know about them being perceived as feminine.

[@cnscaevola]

During discussion of the cultural context surrounding Catullan poems in my Catullus class in both Latin and English was where we brought it up. I was a Classical Languages major and studied Latin, Attic Greek, and Biblical Hebrew.

[@snowleopard064]

@@arthursimsa9005 it makes a lot more sense for the human body structure to have men wear skirts, and girls wear pants.

[@Leovwin]

This rant paired with the increasingly more frenzied In the hall of the mountain king just killed me. This is not just a rant. This is art. An artful rant. Thank you

[@elwen2276]

So right, words can't express how much I love the word choices in this video, she just delivers all the rage so well without even raising her voice :D

[@emeraldknight22]

Bruh....when she said that men went "Fucking Feral" I 100% lost it😂😂😂

[@Evija3000]

Yeah, perfect choice of music as she kept escalating her examples.

[@maggpiprime954]

Edvard Grieg ftw!

[@tokkia1384]

That piece is probably the first meme song in history 😂

[@asoldoer5480]

"If liking girly things is gay, then the girliest thing is girls so you cannot be more gay than someone liking girls" An internet guy i dont remember

[@theadmin7165]

Thats the exact logic my father uses to abuse my mom, to not seem gay or feminine

[@Orangecatenergy]

@@theadmin7165 well tell your dad while he's definitely not feminine, (granted I doubt he's human and not a demon) he is definitely belonging to jail

[@fishyzneedle]

@@theadmin7165 What you said doesn’t make sense, your dad abuses your mom to not seem gay because he thinks that liking women is gay? I think you might have responded to the wrong comment.

[@theadmin7165]

@@fishyzneedle I responded to the right one, as nonsensical as it seems he believes that liking women is bad, but fucking them is good. Its an exaggerated version of the old "I hate my wife and everything about women but hey they got ass" jokes you see in old boomer comics. He hates female fashion: the way they dress, the way they act, the way they style their hair (anything beyond regular long hair and a ponytail he hates), he hates makeup, their hygiene, My favorite example related to that but for guys is that he's ok with guys having long hair, but he hates it when they actually take care of it and it doesn't look awful. Idk how but he even manages to hate the fact that they give birth, and also because of that "we have to have them around"

[@theadmin7165]

@@Orangecatenergy yeah well he's a colonel in the police force so... I'll have good luck with that, thank you

[@null6209]

The modern concept of manly men was born around... the great depression, when men wore Jeans and worked in the mines, to help their poor families survive. The modern concept of a man is built from the ground up on depression(financial and emotional, for more than obvious reasons), isolation(at that time men had to shoulder the weight of their families, without complaint), poverty(hence the lack of accesories and simple clothing), it's just fucking sad.

[@yeet8627]

That actually makes a lot of sense

[@wawawuu1514]

I find this hard to believe, as the patriarchy (certainly the root of masculinity) is a lot older than the 1920s.

[@makaidaniel6372]

20th century is literally the age of depression and made up everything as it also showed up in art and literature.

[@studid55]

Yea, in the video, when she said that all these fun fancy clothes were a sign of wealth, I IMMEDIATELY thought that something like this (your comment) triggered this *FOOKIN AWFUL* change... I want to dress how I want and not be seen as something im not I just want to express myself, but because "I am straight, aka im not gay broooooo" mentality is ruining my fun tbh :(

[@MissRandomNomad0o]

@@wawawuu1514 The concept of masculinity (and therefore what constituted a 'manly man') has changed a lot though. Hence the phrase 'modern concept'.

[@SunnysFilms]

Also, fun fact: Pink was originally considered the more masculine color, while blue was more feminine. This didn't actually change until around the turn of the 20th century.

[@AemiliaJacobus]

Yep, I think the change came around the 40s-50s.

[@colleenrawson8477]

It was a marketing ploy for baby clothes, right?(pink=g, blue=b)

[@dottyContrarian]

@@yeoldetrashheappe not feminine, but homosexual

[@gas4348]

Yes I heard that, but I think that these two colors were for children, pink was used for boys and light blue for girls. Dark blue was then for ladies and gentleman used red (darker shades represent adults, toned down colors/pastels children). I think that these colors swiched duting WW2, but I am not sure

[@liz257]

Everyone who does baby gender reveal parties are shaking and crying rn

[@hotcocoandart]

Then there's a western country where men have worn skirts for around 500 years. Scotland. We call them kilts.

[@Catbirdmom2]

Kilts are SEXY AF. I like them. A man in a suit jacket and matching skirt? Not so much. It’s just a personal opinion.

[@KateeAngel]

@@Catbirdmom2 nah, a jacket plus a kilt - that is combination for the win

[@hotcocoandart]

@@KateeAngel That's actually the typical formal wear for kilts, and they look amazing.

[@solarfreak1107]

Sean Connery wore a kilt. And he was voted the most sexy man of the century. Therefore kilts are manly. Or even dresses for that matter.

[@JackgarPrime]

During the fervor around this whole Harry Styles topic, I saw that Ben Shapiro was trying to make some sort of "kilts aren't the same!" argument. Which was clearly ridiculous. He was moving the goalposts so much they were practically out of the arena.

[@thesunnisalsoastar]

Pink was also considered a manly color and blue a feminine color.

[@alexiscruz7771]

really? Where can I find something on that?

[@thesunnisalsoastar]

@@alexiscruz7771 1-www.google.pt/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/278535/ 2- www.google.pt/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/pink-used-to-be-boys-colour-and-blue-girls-heres-why-that-changed-2017-10%3famp 3-kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZKqhIx9nbqerK8 I also watched another video that had alot of information about that but I can’t seem to find it srry.

[@stargazer31]

Wasn't it because Pink was considered to be a diminutive red (colour of war), and blue was linked to the Virgin Mary?

[@dayangmarikit6860]

@@alexiscruz7771 Because grown men wore red so young boys wore pink, while women wore a rich blue color and young girls wore a pastel or baby blue color.

[@alexiscruz7771]

@@thesunnisalsoastar thank you good sir or madame or anything else. :)

[@brentlohr4965]

I consider myself to be as “masculine” as the average man and am 100% straight, but I have always been envious of women having more colorful, fancy, and COMFORTABLE (heels NOT included) clothing options. Clothing should not be gender specific. The average man wearing a dress or skirt is still going to look like a guy. Women do not look like men when they wear pants and a t-shirt. Granted, some garments look better on certain body types- or is that just what society has ingrained in our psyche as being “right”? After decades of wanting to wear skirts, I have discovered kilts: the “man-skirt”, although kilt traditionalists strongly disagree with the association of the terms. When kilted I wear primarily modern, utility kilts. I would love to wear a denim or cargo skirt with a t-shirt, but society says that would be “wrong”. WTF? They’re just clothes! My significant other has often stated she likes “men to be men” and “women to be women”, but that hasn’t stopped me from wearing kilts fairly often and dressing in drag for Halloween a couple of times. But, she still loves me, perhaps realizing that clothing doesn’t change who I am. The irony is that women who scorn men for embracing some “femininity” also want gender equality. Women will never gain complete equality with men until being feminine, whether you’re a man or a woman, is no longer considered a weakness.

[@crimsonmatter]

I mean women have SO MANY clothing options. So should men

[@becky3983]

Yeah, skirts are very comfortable (except the really narrow pencil skirts and the ones made out of really stiff fabric). But soft skirts with enough "give" in them are really comfy. Freedom for legs.

[@jashaehall154]

Just be a girl already 🙄

[@brentlohr4965]

@@jashaehall154 wanting more clothing options has nothing to do with sexual identity. Does wearing pants make you want to be a man?

[@jashaehall154]

@@brentlohr4965 I actually do feel equivalent to my husband when I where jeans & tshirt When I can be super cute & have all his attention in a skirt

[@newta5208]

In Scotland, the manliest of men wear kilts (skirts), dance intricate dances hopping about and carry daggers in their knee socks :)

[@jennyft4055]

Yes, please!

[@FirstnameLastname-gb4ww]

That’s it. I’m moving to Scotland.

[@newta5208]

@@FirstnameLastname-gb4ww Come with me I have my bags packed

[@FirstnameLastname-gb4ww]

@@newta5208 Hell ya! New traveling buddy!

[@sendyclarissa]

@@newta5208 Count me in! 👜🎒

[@mvhLinda]

Word! As a fellow catholic it really makes me cringe when people pretend the Bible was written in 1950s USA.

[@ritasprinkle5098]

Oh my gosh, yes, I have never read a truer sentence!

[@dayoolorunnisola162]

Exactly 🙄

[@consuelobrennan703]

Yes!

[@TheDynamitedoll1]

Applause forever!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@beesare_cool]

@AnimeFanGirl2913 pack it up church stan

[@faynaglam]

Karolina: rants about the manly man craze. David Bowie: smiles from outer space.

[@Thenoobestgirl]

Ground control to major Tom....

[@39houndsteps]

Lol yes, I actually was having a conversation with my husband last night and we agreed that David Bowie could never seriously be considered as anything other than ‘ Masculine with a capital “M”.

[@faynaglam]

@@39houndsteps Yes! So confident in his own skin!

[@maggpiprime954]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to immediately think; "David Bowie!!"

[@LadyQAB]

@@39houndsteps And Prince is also right up there with the manly man

[@lydia8526]

People: Men can't have long hair Almost every French king named Louis: 😠

[@Grace-ms7un]

😂😂🎉🎉🎉

[@MrPedroHunas]

Literally any European man from 1640 to 1790 🤯😤😠😡🤬

[@Aryan-Yash]

​@@MrPedroHunasare we in that era?

[@Aryan-Yash]

Yeah they can't

[@Aryan-Yash]

​@@Grace-ms7untf you on?

[@FritzMonorail]

remember that time back in the '70s that David Bowie wore a dress and it almost destroyed masculinity as we know it? Remember when all those rock groups in the '80s grew out their hair and put on eyeliner and it almost shattered manliness completely? Like seriously if it didn't happen then what's a guy in a dress going to do now?

[@ivanajovanovic2337]

The New York Dolls are the destroyers of masculinity, and no one can tell me otherwise

[@jadedbelle4788]

Mtv banned Queens 'i want to break free' video because the band members wore dresses and Mtv freaked out about how it would corupt the youth of america

[@louisratatoulielinson]

Even liam is wearing eyeliner AND OH MY GOD HES MMMMMM✨👌

[@Mesmina]

@@jadedbelle4788 To be fair the way Roger Taylor looks in that video I'm pretty sure he corrupted a hudge chunk of males, females, and otherwise...

[@dianamarcekova9615]

@@Mesmina Lmao he was looking so girly back then.

[@ipsitaparida4471]

*men can’t wear long dresses, accessories and colors* Wheezes in Indian history and mythology

[@sangeetha04mr65]

So true! 😂

[@girlwithapearlearring9236]

Tell me about it. 😂😂😂😂 Their dhoti is literally like a skirt. And they still wear it.🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ These people are too much on to "MANLY" .

[@darshnes3986]

@@girlwithapearlearring9236 well I from tamil nadu. And people here proudly wear dhoti but if they were a skirt. They will shame him.

[@anpanpapple5169]

LETS TALK ABT THE BENGALI LUNGI GUYS PLS. LIKE. ITS LEGIT A SKIRT???????? MEN???? STOP DELUDING YOURSELF??????????????

[@sangeetha04mr65]

@@darshnes3986 Exactly. I am from kerala. If a guy wears a pattu pavada, will anyone accept him? If a guy wears a saree, will anyone accept him? Nope.

[@John081590]

..."and don't let me get started on cultures that isn't western" Absolutely agree! The Indian rulers drape themselves with jewellery so extravagant it would make Marie Antoinette weep.

[@deleena4841]

thats true, actually, in India, we still have ornaments of gold and silver etc. made for men. In fact most jewelry stores have a section dedicated exclusively for men.

[@lusverma2136]

And Egyptian men wore makeup like women did.

[@nituraa8147]

I dont think there are many civilisations that would be considered manly by today's 'manly men' lol. Trousers weren't really a stand alone item of clothing anywhere so everyone vibed with some variation of skirt, long skirt or dress. Gotta flex them thighs, in a many way tho. Jewelry too like??

[@tereziamarkova2822]

Yeah, they wore skirts for god's sake! Also eyeliner I think. On the other hand, they also had these big manly moustaches, which just goes to show how fluid concepts of gendered clothing is - you can have elements now considered hypermasculine and other considered hyperfeminine, together in one outfit and different cultures wouldn't find anything weord with that.

[@RunninUpThatHillh]

Yes, she complained about a conservative western woman, though - who was talking about western men. Not India.

[@adik_from_novaliches]

Dude from the Philippines here, and to add more info from our side of table, before the Spanish Colonial Period (from around 900-1560s): 1) Men of high status wore bright natural colors (such as red, blue, yellow) 2) The clothes (according to Boxer Codex, it's really interesting, feel free to search it up, it had tons of illustrations of South East Asian people and how they looked) were quite "feminine". Depending on your status, it could be a jacket for a top (that could showcase your nips), or a shirt that's just about short enought that it showcases your midriff (because ab-goals, am I right ladies?), or literally just a loincloth (which could be too close to a thong for the "manly men" lol). As for the rich men's bottoms, they had fine cloth made of similar fabric as their top, and had them tied in such a way that it'd look like shorts. These were worn because it's practical and hot AF in the Philippines, even back then. 2) Also depending on the man's social class, he could wear these clothes with gold-thread trimming, or even gold-thread embroidery, just for that sparkle of social class. They also had jewelry made of gold, like rings, earrings (yep that's right), bracelets, necklaces, and even on their ankles and knees (because ✨sparkles✨ lol). They also had headwear, which varied from region to region. It could be a bunch of cloth wrapped around the head (kinda like a pirate's headwrap, but much more meticulously wrapped), or a golden crown, or even both. 3) And for the most brilliant part of all, all this they carried into their graves, with one last touch.....can you guess? Oh, nothing grand, just a whole entire mask with intricate details and carvings, made of gold and silver, worn as their corpses are buried into the ground (God bless these manly men 🙏✨) Again, if you're interested to more know about these served looks both by men and women, not only in the Philippines, but also by our SEA neighbors, check out the Boxer Codex. As for this comment's relation to the video, it just goes to show that back then, masculinity and femininity didn't really matter as much as to people nowadays. Ofc, there are little nuances I couldn't mention that do make the difference as to what men and women wore (mostly the sillouhette, among other tiny details), but that's beside the point. I myself am quite masculine in how I want to dress (suits, coats, casual shirts and pants/shorts combos), but it doesn't take much effort for me to have some respect or at the very least tolerance (I'm really picky into what someone wears, sorry just want y'all to look good lol) a man wearing something I personally wouldn't. As for Harry Styles, I personally wouldn't pick that dress for him, idk...I wanted some other prettier dress on him, but it's in a magazine, so I kinda get that they were going for the editorial feel.

[@nameslesss]

“It doesn’t make my blood boil because my blood has already boiled too many times”

[@armoredanteater609]

Theres no blood left ajdjjd

[@4cccccccc]

I laughed so hard cauz I use this expression too

[@nameslesss]

Wtf I made this 15 minutes ago and I already have 400 likes edit: Damn 1K in 40 mins

[@JosephM]

pale queen 😍😍😍😍

[@nameslesss]

@@JosephM we love a vampire shistar

[@FatimaMarques0890]

The woman made her point magnificently. And the music getting faster and louder matching as she lists is the cherry on top.

[@hannahfahey5511]

Edvard Grieg’s “In the Hall of the Mountain King” makes everything better. It’s often used for comical purposes, but the real tragedy is how the lyrical version is rarely used. Which is a shame because the lyrics are hilarious: Slay him! The Christian man’s son has seduced the fairest maid of the Mountain King! Slay him! Slay him! May I hack him on the fingers? May I tug him by the hair? Hu, hey, let me bite him in the haunches! Shall he be boiled into broth and bree to me Shall he roast on a spit or be browned in a stewpan? Ice to your blood, friends! Eek. Forget about singing valkyries, I’m here for the troll opera.

[@jassange2921]

She s coming closer in time

[@bloodynoses9693]

Haha *cherry.*

[@onewayticket2148]

@@hannahfahey5511 nice

[@lizzie-4011]

@@hannahfahey5511 as soon as i heard the music start my first thought was “oh heck yeah this is the lad that gets faster and faster” lmao, i had never seen the lyrics before today tho so thank you!!

[@metaphorsunfurled]

In short, there was a time when men had options, colors, cool accessories, a fucking fashion sense.

[@Saezimmerman]

Agree. The thing that occurred to me as she was listing off all the things that weren't "manly" is that, in an individualistic culture, flouting nonsense rules is the height of "manliness."

[@mctheobeymebunny190]

Yessss!! Give everyone the fashion freedom

[@josephbXIX]

We have those still its just not as common. There is a renaissance of older styles and even mens fashion in general. Old styles are expensive nowadays for lack of market so most guys go with jeans, sweatpants and shirts and hoodies.

[@AB-jt4rs]

And now an innocent man can get ridiculed for literally wearing pink

[@farah6157]

idk what youre talking about, khakis and a t-shirt is the pinnacle of fashion

[@littlemustacheemoticon]

This and the “not like other girls” trend show how convinced some people are that masculinity is genuinely more powerful.

[@jb-xc4oh]

You bet your life it is....!!

[@jb-xc4oh]

@@virtualmorgue Uh huh.

[@AnaLu07]

Me at the age 12, i tried to convince myself i was not like other girls. Now, i can't do my own make up and i regret It😅 I like both masculine and feminine things. I like boxing (Martial Arts in general), calisthenics, sports, i like to dress in loose clothes, i hate to do my nails so i don't do it...But, sometimes, when i go out, i wanna wear make up, i want my boyfriend to see me as "cute" or i wanna exibit some feminine mannerisms. However, i feel much more comfortable showing my masculine sides than feminine sides...I wish i was comfortable to show them both equally.

[@thegnome73]

​@@AnaLu07 you can still learn makeup now if you want! My mom is learning makeup in her 50s! never too late, in fact, my mom was inspired by me to learn. I was kind of a late bloomer myself, I've learned most of makeup and fashion in my twenties after I moved out because my culture growing up was controlling and shamed caring about physical appearance. Some days I wear nothing at all, some days I do a lot, and there are a lot of days that are in between those extremes too. I've learned to be comfortable in all those states. Makeup and fashion can be art, they can be a costume, and in some contexts, they can be armor, and in others, a cage. What fashion and makeup should never be is controllers of how we feel about ourselves as women. We are as womanly without them as we are with them, cause we are still women whether we are using them or not. And in that vein, sounds like you have a boyfriend, and if so, he was attracted to you without all of the performative feminine things. But if he's a good person he should be supportive of you exploring other sides of yourself--more varieties of you to be attracted to! Both men and women just like to feel the other puts effort in to take care of themselves for the other, cause it shows that you care. But the specifics of what that specifically looks like varies. People are different. So are couples. Hope you find contentedness and comfort in who you are.

[@Greye13]

@@thegnome73 This is very well said and spot on. Excellent comment.

[@guilatrixx4442]

"It can't even make my blood boil because it boiled so many times it evaporated." This will be my senior quote.

[@dianamarcekova9615]

I'll write it down.

[@tokiWren]

The Romans thought that wearing pants was BARBARIC. Only a barbarian would wear pants (and nobody wants to be a barbarian).

[@christinagobel8968]

Looking around nowadays... maybe the Romans were right

[@nullakjg767]

The romans also had slaves and loved imperialism. Is having slaves and loving imperialism also manly?

[@estiami]

@@nullakjg767 the point isn't that we should decide manliness based on roman standards, it's meant to point out the hypocrisy of people who think that pants specifically are manly and shame men for wanting to wear anything else when for thousands and thousands of years the opposite was held as stardard manliness, or in this case wearing pants was even considered to be barbaric. No one is saying "look at this time period, we should be more like them", the point is to point out the hypocrisy of people who glorify one period of time as "peak humanity and manliness" and ignore the thousands and thousands of years of human history before who were totally different

[@OnibiTeru]

Weren't pants sort of a thing for peasants/workers? Because they were easy to move around in. Imagine wearing a long cape on the field while harvesting your crops. Imagine most people don't even know where jeans came from.

[@kairi99roxas]

But also, the original meaning of 'barbarian' just meant anyone who didnt speak Greek. So anyone who wasn't of their culture was a barbarian

[@kristinb5922]

I feel so sad for modern men having to express themselves only through socks and watches.

[@Call-me-Al]

Colorful expensive sneakers are seen as ok for "Men" in some places.

[@kristinb5922]

@@Call-me-Al The highest symbol of status, how could I forget?

[@jessicas.6235]

And heaven forbid your watch isn’t large and bulky.

[@slc679]

Personally I use cuff links to express myself :)

[@genericangst8665]

My brother has so many different kinds of socks that he only wears with certain outfits. He's not a "manly man" by any means, but he sure got some funky socks.

[@awesometani8148]

Being manly is being yourself without giving a damn what others think. Honestly, its so simple 😔

[@bettermebetterlife8975]

Really? I thought I would be a mysoginists toxic man. Hm.

[@RR-et6zp]

its not, we are very different, we dont like masculine women

[@ArmaHipHopTV]

@@RR-et6zp I do. You don't*

[@Nick-dx2pt]

@@RR-et6zp *I not we, we're not the same person mate

[@RR-et6zp]

@@ArmaHipHopTV we dont its like a guy wearing heels a skirt and being feminine

[@bernadettebanner]

*STANDING OVATION*

[@saragabblegoose1075]

YES

[@ivy_ig_idk]

Yed

[@RaichuSalvajee]

Indeed

[@DavidCruickshank]

YES! 👏 👏 👏

[@SM-qv2om]

It's you!

[@bizzlecrafts]

"Vibrant colors are reserved for women." Dang, didn't know I was a bird.

[@milochellecastre6865]

Peackocks: am I a joke to you?

[@Cucumberturnip]

Pretty much all birds: Am I a joke to you?

[@dentedtester36]

Ironically, in birds that show sexual dimorphism the males are typically the more colourful ones

[@Cucumberturnip]

@@dentedtester36 That is the point.

[@dentedtester36]

@@Cucumberturnip okay, oops 😅

[@hanajorova3674]

People at 2020: hating men who wear too "decorative" style People at 1500s: "Oh, how I wish to have that beautiful fabric and 'miniskirt' and jewels like king have :')"

[@apenasumcoalamagico8638]

Man just got so jealous we made the poor style be the man style to compensate

[@pablojoelaban7022]

And they say that time was "outdated and sexsit" they were gayer then the gays today

[@rishikapaul4740]

Some people are complaining that men are losing their gender orientation by wearing dresses, whereas in Scotland, it is natural for men to wear skirts because it is their traditional dress.

[@johannageisel5390]

"Man, look at the King! What a STUD! His gold on silk brocade gown makes all the panties drop. .... If women wore panties, amiright!? Hahahahahaha...." - some guy back then

[@beth7935]

@@johannageisel5390 OMG this comment is gold!

[@sassyqueen9739]

You know its all really funny especially when they say “women like “manly” men” it gets me DYING of laughter because women are crushing on Harry styles and Kpop idols and showing absolutely no attention to “manly” men it’s ironic

[@skurinski]

yeah, not true.

[@nadiaaidan]

@@skurinski it literally is hun

[@davidnissim589]

Always been that way. Girls were throwing themselves at the eyeliner wearing emo bands like My Chemical Romance a decade ago, and before that, Kurt Cobain in the 90’s, “glam metal” bands in the 80’s, etc.

[@itsbritneybyotch7471]

Women are crushing on... Both sides honestly lol

[@painunending4610]

Your tripping if you don't think there are also women lusting after 'manly men'. Women aren't a monolith As a more masculine presenting man it's nice to think that women are also attracted to me

[@jeiku5041]

If I want to wear a giant Victorian Era dress, nothing's gonna stop me. Except my wallet.

[@Jedapoo]

Truth.

[@isabella1878]

Same, I adore the Victorian Era.

[@lucialanczova1315]

Go rock that everlasting broke student vibe!

[@angelhomes213]

True

[@herlocksholmes-uv5qw]

bruh destroy gender norms stealing it /j

[@TurboSilke]

Fun fact,the viking men where big fans of being fashionable, also they spent a lot of time on their hair and/or beards.

[@valeriy8502]

Yes they bleached their hair with lye... Part of that was to dispel lice.

[@TurboSilke]

@Auryn Voss they even used eye makeup to look good!

[@isidorskogberg03]

They also wore shorts and stockings (which is how their famous baggy pants look were historically accomplished)

[@TurboSilke]

@@isidorskogberg03 stockings? i know that was the case for many of the upper class in later times. But then again the foot/leg wrappings is basically the same? Or did they really have something like real leggings? i must know!

[@lauradav2]

they also groomed their beards on a weekly basis! every Saturday.

[@peppybalentine711]

Colors? Bold. Make-up? Subtle. Hotel? Versailles. Dying over here

[@11thShadowDragon]

That was a great joke and she shouldn't have apologized for it

[@Rainjojo]

Don’t bring back “manly men” bring back respectful men with a sense of fashion ✨

[@monbub]

Yes!

[@davidsimonyan5794]

With ENORMOUS sence of fashion. And education. And gallantry. So bring back Real Men, not those amorphous things that calls themselves "manly men"

[@camilo8179]

reject society boys, become ripped

[@icravedeath.1200]

YAS!

[@gayallah2397]

Shur up

[@tiny-grimes]

"They're not "women's dresses. They're my dresses. I buy them. It’s like when women wear trousers, they’re not cross-dressing. They’re not wearing men’s trousers, they’re wearing trousers.” (c) Eddie Izzard

[@thebiggestcauldron]

Gender-non-conforming people are powerful.

[@KrissyMeow]

@@thebiggestcauldron lol

[@orionsoutro1794]

Eddie Izzard is incredible

[@laurieanne9179]

Love him!

[@nothisispatrick2615]

👏 Say it louder for the people in the back 👏

[@trumpet8170]

Man this person is a total QUEEN. She went in there and stated her point, no time wasted, and backed up her claim with tons of factual evidence. This is how you write a rant people.

[@jmvt3]

Nah it was just a standard “standards have changed therefore there is no standard”

[@drdabsmore945]

@@jmvt3 You said “nah” as if the commenter was wrong. No, everything stated in that comment was true. She made an argument backed up with facts. Then you claimed it was wrong, and offered your own analysis, which is literally the same thing as the original comment you’re criticizing, just with different wording. You’re an idiot.

[@jmvt3]

@@drdabsmore945 I just don’t see how deconstructing standards is worthy of praise.

[@trumpet8170]

@@jmvt3 because it’s a sign of evolving as a modern society

[@trumpet8170]

@@koreansavior1059 just because a man is feminine, doesn’t mean he is gay. Use your head

[@charlottew.8460]

I'm a girl and I always went and still go to the mens section when I'm shopping for shirts, because I think they have cool designs most of the time! Nobody really gave a sh*t about that, but if a man is looking for something in the womens section he would probably get really weird looks. I just don't understand how clothes ultimately define who you are, like..?

[@xvnexus8814]

I agree (as a man considering women's clothes). For me, what makes someone look masculine or feminine is their actual body shape and not the cloth they cover their body with.

[@darvinoschannel9826]

In my country it wouldn't be weird if there's a guy in the women's t-shirt section, but once he goes to the lingerie section, then that's where he'll get suspicious looks 😂

[@nose766]

Women stole our heels!!! Give them back!! I WANT TO WEAR HEELS!!!

[@petrichor9417]

You can have them, modern heels are way too uncomfortable...

[@fannetastic8097]

yeet I would wear low heels

[@brumous9364]

Have them Their hell

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

Havent you noticed army boots AND riding boots are high heeled?

[@tessaritter5339]

So... go for it. You can buy and wear them, if you want to.

[@ZacharyDBrooks]

Hey I'm a MANLY MAN that wears buttonup SHIRTS (that I sewed myself with my sewing machine).

[@lgbtqiarights]

proud of u zach

[@kapitanleni4438]

Wow I proud of you! 👏👏👏

[@lunedez]

Sewing is sew amazing ngl

[@brinaf2857]

You're awsome! I'm a woman and the best I can manage is attach a button 😅

[@ht.6315]

Wait that's so cool

[@heath2671]

I am a male ballet dancer who has a uniform that is a leotard, tights, and socks. Due to this, many male ballet dancers feel the need to be toxically “manly men.” It is saddening to see people who feel like they need to be fake 🤦‍♂️

[@asymptotax]

People laugh at male ballet dancers for wearing tights until they realise they are fitter and stronger than most of the manly men

[@owenlindkvist5355]

@@asymptotax Denial is as equally destructive as stereotyping, honey.

[@DJVARAO]

Just curious. Do you imply that others assume you are gay just because you are a dancer? I dated a ballerina long ago, and her male friends were everything but.

[@DJVARAO]

@Vergilius Brutus Good question. Stereotypes, I guess?

[@asymptotax]

@@DJVARAO well yes, I've heard many people saying that they're "gay" just for classy dancing and tight clothes. And you you know that gays can't be manly men/s

[@Emilianateicheira]

Its frustrating how society now days say men cant have fashion sense.

[@RR-et6zp]

not true

[@Nick-dx2pt]

@@RR-et6zp I saw your other disgusting and bike comments 🤮🤮🤮

[@gnf_2.056]

"I like a man who has fashion sense" "Patterned clothing,shirts with colors,cool designs? Thats not manly"

[@tresh8927]

y'all need to stop with the "womanly women" stereotype should be next video

[@beetrisrubis]

Yes yes yees

[@beth7935]

YES!

[@leenmattar3983]

yup

[@saveriannathan1415]

Up this one

[@moraien3278]

Is womanly woman even a thing? I never heard anyone saying that...

[@jamesmcgrath23]

As a man who has constantly been frustrated with how boring modern men’s fashion is, it brings me great joy to hear that I’m not being ‘feminine’ for wanting to wear a bright color or some makeup for once

[@Pippis78]

As a mother of two kids I have the same frustration. "Boys'" clothes are BORING and have ugly ass colours. The clothes for small boys I actually prefer to little girls' clothes. The latter are tight fitting, frilly and so full of pink and lilac and bling that you'll go blind and unsuitable for moving and playing freely, but for small boys they are pretty nice and there are at least bright blues and greens (and DINOSAURS). But when it gets to over 10-11y olds... Black and grey, maybe very dark blue or ugly dark green. No fun prints. I have a preschooler who's favourite colour is red(s)(including pink), he does like cars a lot but also flowers, cats, heart shapes, glitter... I mean what small kid doesn't like glittery things?? ...Mostly the one's that have been brainwashed to believe they can't. I'm proud I've let him freely choose what he likes and how he dresses, the toys he plays with etc. but then again I worry how hard it will be for him to learn that the society doesn't accept that for boys/men and that he'll be bullied. The things men are allowed to like, wear, say, do is SOOO damn restricted. Women have huge equality problems in this world. But men get their personalities and self-expression policed brutally and super narrowmindedly ...How to put this... I have a boy and a girl. For my girl I worry about sexual violence, the pressures to look beautiful and be sexy (but not too much because then you're "a slut") and always getting valued based on that etc., but I know I can bring her up to be strong and stand up for herself. She might have to be twice as good as a man to get a promotion, but I believe she can fight the fight. I worry more for my boy. Because the world will try to dictate who he is allowed to be on a very personal level. And often violently. It's like... women live in cages but men have the cage inside of their heads. Like... for women it's "this is how you are allowed to live" and for men "this is who you are allowed to be". The narrow gender roles do ofcourse affect women too, it's not this black-and-white, but there is more room to wiggle. At least in my country and surroundings, because the situation is a lot better here for women than pretty much anywhere in the world. There's also the fact that women liking or doing "masculine" things is not only frowned upon but also often appreciated and even celebrated - But when men liking or doing things seen as "feminine" is nearly always BAD, GAY, WEAK. The flip side of "masculine" things seen as more worthy, is that that restricts men very much in fitting the stereotype of what a man is supposed to be. Not trying to say who has it the hardest. Men and women face the flipsides of the same problem.

[@captainahab5522]

My colour scheme is usually red and blue I do want to try some of the more medieval styles because they look warmer and more protective The strict gender roles are bad for everyone Men are told not to cry so often that they grow up emotionally stunted and unable to express their emotions And women have the constant catcalling and beauty standards that wears them down over time so they have so little self confidence. I want for fashion to go back to Taylor made designs that are specific to the wearer and more individual styles Men are basically limited to jeans and a T-shirt

[@righthomosphere7962]

maybe you're gay

[@animequeen78]

As a nonbinary person, I find the gendering of fashion to be highly unnecessary.

[@Basedhistoryenjoyer]

It's funny how when a man puts on the slightes layer of make up for an event, the media go wild but if a woman dresses like a clown, no one bats an eye.

[@poffydaisy5134]

I'm Turkish, and people here are saying "bring back manly men" here too, but the funny thing is that like a couple of hundred years ago even the kings wore long dresses

[@blueberry.milkshakequeen6946]

19. Yüzyıla kadar hiç bir padişahın hatta direkt Osmanlı'da normal bir erkeğin pantolon giymediği gerçeği peki

[@poffydaisy5134]

@@blueberry.milkshakequeen6946 EVET SŞBSWOJBDLWHDLFNGPFGLY

[@kaori_kanzaki]

Burada bırak elbiseyi, sakalsız bıyıksız gezen erkeği döverler dsdfjklşdf

[@michirukaioh4014]

Watching Turkish TV soap operas as Muhteşem Yüzyıl made me want to have clothes with fabrics similar to those their costumes were made of, feminine and masculine alike. I loved the blue palette that Süleyman used to wear

[@MrCmon113]

It's not about the particular clothes. It is about whether you are wearing different clothes from the women at your time and location.

[@RithvikaT]

Why is it that Women wearing Pantsuit is considered okay and really cool and fierce but a man wearing a dress is considered to be feminine and toxic culture. Why? Is it because it is related to woman. And woman have been “considered” to be “weak”. And men have been considered as strong and power. Get that narrows of your mind and through it out of window.PLEASE. I can imagine a man wearing an appropriate dress and still fight or be strong. I mean look at men in past. They also frickin’ wore heels. Now is that manly or not manly ??…i think this all lies in patriarchal society where it’s the straight men who are defining the norms and not all the genders collectively . Why are these dumb things imposed in 20th and 21st century people. I mean technologically we have developed a lot , what about culturally. Let’s break these so called “Rules” and develop the world into a better place. I mean come on we have a lot of things to worry about, why is everybody concerned about wearing what he is comfortable in.

[@KaiDecadence]

You nailed it to be honest.

[@RithvikaT]

@@KaiDecadence Thank you

[@S-CB-SL-Animations]

Best. Comment. Ever.

[@just_ise4418]

PREACH

[@leeloo96]

This explains why men's costumes in period dramas are so boring to look at, they're trying to hard to push this era's concept of "manliness" instead of embracing the campiness of the past.

[@karoliinalehtinen6701]

yes??? I hate it that in every medieval and renaissance historical fiction the men always have black or brown leather clothes. The trousers are not baggy, but not too tight and they have leather doublets or short enough/jacket-like tunics so they don't accidentally look like skirts...

[@Naharu.]

Thats one thing that l hate in any history related thing. Like, embrace it and give us some good Historical men's fashion please? I love the 18th century for male fashion, just look at those embroidered waist coats! Its to die for

[@sallycinammon1478]

The favourite actually encompasses the camp nature of Stuart clothing which I love.

[@sofia_rms]

I think it's also to make the people watching find them attractive, because with corsets, and wigs people would just end up finding them funny looking

[@kobaltkween]

There was once this episode of Antiques Roadshow where this guy brags about how he removed this tacky red paint job from an antique. The appraiser explains to him that the tacky paint was the Victorian's way of emulating mahogany and stylish at the time, and that his work devalued the piece by removing original work, not restored it. He kept plaintively insisting, "But it was tacky," as if the Victorians _must_ have shared his sense of style and color.

[@richard_from_england333]

"Long hair is for women only" *Laughs in entire human history

[@richard_from_england333]

Short hair for men is actually quite recent

[@alexandermackie7621]

@@richard_from_england333 Slightly untrue, the ancient romans preferred shorter hairstyles - comparatively speaking at least, they'd probably be considered moderate length by today's standards - but that were derived from the military standard hair of a roman legionary at the time. They were more the exception than the rule though.

[@richard_from_england333]

@@alexandermackie7621 Yeah, that was the romans.. but there's history 100 000 years before them of wearing long hair.. Especially europeans who needed it for cold weather.. It was practical back then

[@alexandermackie7621]

@@richard_from_england333 I know, it's why I mentioned that they were more the exception than the rule. But I'm a law student, being pedantic comes as naturally as breathing for me.

[@AlaynaMoebius]

My favorite reply to that is that if men in general were meant to only have short hair they would be genetically set so that it would just stop growing and the would even shed it after a certain length...

[@frednycortes5102]

That re-enactment in the beginning is literally what I see in the comments of all the antique men’s photograph videos on KZbin and it makes me want to scream. “Men wear makeup now, disgusting.” Apparently they haven’t seen some men in the 18th century.

[@cronchybo]

or in ancient times

[@lgbtqiarights]

i wouldn’t acknowledge those kinds of people. they shit and piss their pants when people dye their hair

[@saturniiiidae]

I saw one on an old video of some ripped dude weight lifting. It looked uncomfortable for him honestly. And somebody commented “back when men were real men” or something like that. And way way too many people liked it. I thought it was a joke until people were defending it in the comments...

[@gingershit6994]

please, they've never seen a man on tv today. It's not like celebs have naturally matte and perfect faces. Why on earth so many people even care about other's fashion choices and why are we not crying for this horrifying lack of cloaks. Cloaks are so beautiful, let's hate how they diappeared from fashion, not the fact that there are dudes with sick make up skills

[@NIHIL_EGO]

@@gingershit6994 THIS !!! Capes are THE shit ! I don't care what Edna says, I wish they would make a comeback. I swear, when I will be the Darkperor of the world, I'll do everything in my power so that capes retrieves RIGHTFUL place in the closet of everyone, rich or poor, meek or bold, men or women, young or old.

[@shrimpgaming1749]

It is quite sad that men have less alternatives to fashion these days. Sure, you could wear something more extravagant and fancy, but everyone'll just say its too "feminine". I wish men had more fashion options these days that are more socially acceptable.

[@sharkwaffle1582]

You hit the nail on the head

[@gormauslander]

Step one: stop looking for social validation. You already know their opinion is toxic. How long will you lower yourself to obey them? Step two: you now have infinite style access.

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

@@gormauslander epic

[@Nick-dx2pt]

@@gormauslander this!

[@painunending4610]

@@gormauslander I get were you coming from but realistically you kinda NEED social validation

[@hunbran7939]

dull-coloured boringly cut trousers and a t-shirt. so i guess according to them the quintessential manly man is... Mark Zuckerberg?

[@angelagaviria6448]

LMAO

[@ReptilianTeaDrinker]

Pretty much. LOL

[@VanK782]

He was designed to look as inconspicuous as they could make him

[@Reggie_la]

So manly 😍😍😘🥰🥰🥰 ideal man 😍🥰🥰😘😘😍😍😍

[@mariunfabregas7533]

Conservatives: **points at Zucc** you may not like it, but that's what peak masculinity looks like

[@kirammm637]

🙄 people act like not being attractive to you personally is a crime

[@sofia_rms]

Fr

[@anthiaalbani9795]

THAT🙏🙏

[@lailadawn8122]

Yes yes yes yes YES!

[@helen-fk4bf]

Omg ✨😳✨ preach

[@Kotifilosofi]

Or when you _are_ attractive in their eyes but don't want to do anything with it... 🤔 (aroace speaking)

[@killanelle]

okay but the men in these paintings are absolutely ROCKING the high heels

[@darrenthebuilder5068]

The way they were posing, one shoe out from behind the luxurious robe, toe pointed, head high... glorious.

[@Freya407]

Indeed. High heels + hose/stockings = show me dem sexy legs

[@NIHIL_EGO]

They're flamboyants, they go all the way !

[@wenkachan6180]

Louis XIV is literally giving us the best Instagram pose in his favorite portrait, showing his nice legs with the high heels and his silk stockings. High heels make your feet look fantastic and he understood that. (I have an obsession with heels) He's also the one who popularized it cause he wanted to look taller, and the red heel was due to his brother who came back one time white blood in his shoes and every one found the look sickening, so two days later everyone had red heels😂 (a read that a day and I was deaddd)

[@ambe5179]

I think the most important thing is to be comfortable no matter what you're wearing. No one should be forced to wear this or that item of clothing.

[@arinyugrass]

“Dresses are for woman” *looks at literally most cultures* hum...

[@Hfil66]

The problem with dresses is that they are not very convenient for horse riding. Similarly, women started wearing things approximating to trousers when the bicycle became fashionable. If you don't need to sit astride something then a dress type of garment is generally simpler and more comfortable.

[@julietfischer5056]

@@Hfil66 - That's why riders had the tunics or kilts, and horse-nomads wore trousers.

[@lauriex8832]

Look at Scotland

[@NankitaBR]

@Brutally Cynical no, when you say "dress" you say "dress", no adjectives added, just any and all dresses.

[@NankitaBR]

@Channel Closed most eloquent way to describe your misogyny

[@wynnew.h5245]

Karolina: ‘As a Catholic, this made me cackle’ Me, an Anglican: preach.

[@Poppy-]

And the Pope wears...well a dress even if it's called a robe.

[@wanderlust9372]

@@Poppy- robe is litterally the french word for dress tho

[@Poppy-]

@@wanderlust9372 exactement!

[@pablojoelaban7022]

@@wanderlust9372 ಠ_ʖಠ

[@roxiepoe9586]

plain vanilla protestant here: "Many people are ignorant. Many are also stupid."

[@sewingbea9356]

Pink used to be a “manly” colour and blue used to be a “girly” colour, hence why Mary is dressed in blue Edit: thanks so much for the likes!! Never got this many before!

[@pineapplebasket1445]

Omg thats not the reason why Our Lady wear blue

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

Dont know about pink, but red is definitely a manly colour. Red is used to hiding the fact that you are wounded and bleedin in the battlefield. If you are going to cry like a girl the first scratch you get, you can aswell wear blue like one.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

@@pineapplebasket1445 Wasnt blue a super expensive colour that only kings and queens would afford, like purple? So blue would signify a royal status?

[@CytherX]

@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 only the deeper shades. Like royal blue

[@CytherX]

@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 the boys wore pink, because it was the stronger color. Girls wore blue because it was the weaker color

[@farradina6291]

"long hairs are for females!" **Laughs in lion**

[@mokko759]

My goodness, she could have gone back even further, to the middle ages and looked at the Norse Vikings. The absolute epitome of masculinity with their fastidious grooming habits, handsomely braided locks, brightly patterned fabrics, sumptuous furs and luxurious jewellery. But what viking would be complete without his scented oils and perfumes? There wouldn't have been a Norse woman alive that would have accepted a filthy, drab, ungroomed man. That was one of the reasons why the Saxon men hated the Norse so much: The vikings were hot as hell and all the women knew it! EDIT: Oh sweet merciful Buddha! It's astounding how there are so many people hinging on the fact that the Norse were raiders and would captured slaves, as if nobody else at the time did the exact same damned thing. This was the norm for centuries, all over Europe with all sorts of cultures. The Norse were only famous for it because they were good at it. That is not what we are discussing here! We are discussing their meticulous grooming habits and fashion choices, which were infamous at the time.

[@beth7935]

"Sorry Aethelwulf, but I'm going to the feast with Erik. He looks well hot with his braids, bling & bright tunic, & he doesn't stink like you do" :D And don't forget the poetry. Composing & reciting long, complex, beautiful poems & sagas was manly af! (For Saxons too; just a general point about early Mediaeval men)

[@beth7935]

@@meigrace4941 Well yeah, the Vikings raided & murdered lots of Saxons, so no, you wouldn't say they loved the Saxons! The source for the comment about Saxon men resenting the Vikings is a chronicle written by a Saxon monk; wish I could remember which one- maybe Nennius?

[@mokko759]

@@meigrace4941 They hated each other for certain. Norse vikings hated the Saxons because they were filthy peasants who wouldn't just give up their land to viking raiders. Saxons hated Norse viking because they were dashingly handsome raiders that looted and murdered all over Saxon land.

[@mokko759]

@@beth7935 John of Wallingford wrote thusly about the Danes: ”The Danes, thanks to their habit to comb their hair every day, to bathe every Saturday, to change their garments often, and set off their persons by many such frivolous devices. In this manner, they laid siege to the virtue of the married women, and persuaded the daughters even of the nobles to be their concubines.” Translated to more modern English: Damn, those handsome, clean, well groomed, good smelling vikings! They're seducing all the womenfolk and our smelly, unwashed asses arn't gettin' any now!

[@beth7935]

@@mokko759 Excellent! I hoped someone would improve my pathetic attempt to explain the source of this amusing moment in history :D Essentially, that it came from a Saxon, & wasn't Viking propaganda. If someone's enemy compliments them, it's pretty convincing.

[@liquidwood4064]

Just wanted to mention that in the Renaissance era the beauty ideal for young men was long wavy hair, a soft, shaven face and "angel like" features. In fact, it's pretty common for men from the portraits of that time to be mistaken for women by people used to our beauty standards. So yeah, gender roles are bullshit.

[@felmargego2534]

Even noblemen back then wore makeup!

[@najma2613]

Angel like features? What's that supposed to be? You realize the depiction of angels is based on colonial racism by German origin Europeans (brits, french, swedes, etc)? Angels have no known appearance. Please relearn your beliefs.

[@DavidNotSolomon]

@@najma2613 Get out of here - it is clear that she means the traditional European depictions of angels. You are a trouble making troll.

[@liquidwood4064]

@@najma2613 No need to be so snappish, we're not here to yell at each other. You're right in saying that angels don't have one single "true" appearance, they are pictured very differently throughout human history and in different cultures. However, since I was talking about the renaissance era I thought it was quite obvious that with "angel-like" I was referring to the most common depiction of angels at that time in Europe. I didn't want to start a discusssion about angels or white supremacy, I just wanted to add to the argument that beauty ideals and gender roles change a lot through history. Have a nice day. (Edit: grammar)

[@louisacapell]

The ROLLS were the same, even if fashion was not.

[@kushalgupta9778]

Just look at Indian maharajas my god they wore such extravagant, colorful clothes lined with gold and embeded with pearls. Don't even get me started on jewellery they wore so many diamonds, rubies, emerals and what not. Literally so much bling it will make your eyes hurt. Indian maharajas were the real bling kings.

[@chocolattefeverdreams4228]

THIS

[@Shobhana-jq8iu]

Yeah bling bling but also lot of it looks hideous

[@NayrAnur]

Maharajas got the drip.

[@xenonsketchesletsgo]

@@NayrAnur yeahhhhh

[@manekakapoor1612]

Yes, my dad wore longais in the summer, even in London, and idiots accused him of wearing a dress, but he still did it.

[@dylanbananas7514]

"Bring back manly men." All of History: 👁️👄👁️

[@firstnamelastname9219]

you... know war was a thing right?

[@AtlasNL]

@@firstnamelastname9219You do know fashion affected the clothes men wore to war right? Uniforms were often more practical versions of what was fashionable at the time. Take for example the uniforms during the napoleonic wars, those men were blinged the fuck out, especially the cavalry. It’s pretty much always been that way. It wasn’t until around WWI that the bright colours were replaced with muddy/drab hues and eventually camouflage patterns.

[@firstnamelastname9219]

why are you talking about clothing lmao literally has nothing to do with my statement @@AtlasNL

[@tjtj45]

Im a male at an all boys catholic school and now I just want to write an essay on historical fasion and say “men went f-&cking feral” favourite part

[@rachelmcclain5367]

Do it Tj Tj

[@wandanemer2630]

I know right??? We NEED that!

[@sethmiller2532]

I must read this! Please do write it with all haste.

[@juliaweber9430]

I showed this video to my boyfriend, he jumped from the table, got his early medieval style tunic (Tunika) out of his closet and held a speech, wondering why tunics ever went out of fashion for men ("it's the most comfortable piece of clothing ever!"). Then he declared, today is tunic-day, so he'll be probably wearing his tunic all day long. You made his day. Thank you. 🤗

[@mirjanbouma]

Your boyfriend sounds great, no lie.

[@luxborealis]

Your boyfriend is a Viking?

[@riz7855]

That’s so nice!

[@Cecil...]

Awww ^^ He sounds like my brother :)

[@salviarifdah2730]

This is so wholesome and I love it.

[@rizo5734]

People: NOOO YOU CANT WEAR SKIRT! THAT’S NOT MANLY! Meanwhile Scots: *hehe kilts go brrrr*

[@leenmattar3983]

Meanwhile, some Arabs wearing kandoora.

[@goddamitiblewuptheworldaga2894]

Mean while West African men in extremely long shirts

[@jennasilver94]

@@catherinerose2434 but do they really have any substantial differences besides the name?

[@jennasilver94]

@@catherinerose2434 but trousers are trousers regardless of whether they were made for a male or female body or how masculine or feminine they look

[@oammaslastnamethei3063]

@@catherinerose2434 "A kilt (Scottish Gaelic: fèileadh [ˈfeːləɣ])[1] is a type of knee-length non-bifurcated skirt" Wikipedia. kilts are skirts. did you even watch the video for complaining that kilts arent skirts because they're "manly"?

[@rosequartz4102]

Three of my older boys kids are in a boardng school and in their student homes they have something called the macho Man competition. It's a monthly competition which I initially did not agree with at all just based on the name but once I heard what they were doing I became a big fan. In that home a macho man is someone who does his chores, shows personal responsibility, stands up for somebody who's being bullied. Now I think it's great. I've seen such growth since they started doing this and the wonderful house parents are giving them the real definition of a manly man: someone who has integrity and takes personal responsibility for their actions.

[@firstnamelastname9219]

when do you think we'll teach girls accountability and personal responsibility?

[@marchingham]

"Men went f***ing feral!" You, madam, are a legend.

[@beckylynn9640]

Omg, I died 🤣💀

[@pablojoelaban7022]

The "manly men" from that time were gayer than the gays today ಠ_ʖಠ

[@zejdland]

I mean testosterone has been decreasing for years in men

[@zickeney7108]

@@zejdland Not how testosterone works, buddy.

[@zejdland]

@@zickeney7108 check your facts Son.

[@LaDivinaLover]

My goal in life is to be referred to as “Fantastically Fucking Feral” in regards to my aesthetic! 🥳

[@RedRosesDead07]

YES! We stan a Fantasically Fucking Feral human!

[@Onnarashi]

Typical! Just another thing you women appropriate from us men! Wasn't the high heels, dresses, wigs, powder, the colour pink and eyeshadow enough? ;-)

[@LaDivinaLover]

@@Onnarashi 😂😅 lmfao I am a man 🤣

[@plushy_doctor2299]

*"My blood doesn't even boil because it's boiled so many times that it evaporated"* *"Men went f**king feral"*

[@amankodimela8499]

What's feral

[@plushy_doctor2299]

@@amankodimela8499 like wild

[@batuhanadas2171]

I'dont know exacly what she is?

[@plushy_doctor2299]

@@batuhanadas2171 huh...? What are you trying to say?

[@batuhanadas2171]

Im just bullshitting

[@02HARMAE]

Candace Owens really needs to learn a thing called “minding her own business” when it comes to stuff she personally doesn’t like.

[@S-CB-SL-Animations]

Absolutely.

[@JohnSmithAnythingChannel]

Sounds like you personally don't like Candace Owens. So maybe you should "mind your own business" when it comes to her? But perhaps you don't because you, like her, live in a country that provides the right to free speech.

[@MarieJohanna760]

​​​​@@JohnSmithAnythingChannelBecause that right wing token mouth breather does not deserve respect aside the most basic respect. You would not understand free speech if it hits you in the face. Be weird elsewhere

[@vereinfacht8967]

Expensive clothes in the past: silks and good patterns Expensive clothes now: White shirt and box logo

[@roxanne_]

We honestly are dealing with an fashion identity crisis here WE NEED TO FIX THAT ASAP

[@wandanemer2630]

I feel personally agravated by the fashion industry.

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

@@roxanne_ LETS GO BACK TO ROCOCO

[@hubert2529]

well that's one of the problems of capitalism and labor of high brands

[@Nianiabe]

The same has been happening with home decor and architecture. I don't want to live in a "clean lines and modern home" with no personality. I die a little inside every time I see and intricate fireplace mantle get painted over in white by a fool of a renovator.

[@JustSaralius]

This is just one of the reasons why it's so effing important to know social and cultural history and not just political history (which is mainly what is taught in schools as plain "history"). People have no perspective!

[@folded_pizza]

Say it louder for the people at the back

[@mariannek6735]

I completely agree!

[@kev3d]

Men and women dressed differently throughout history. When the aristocracy wore flamboyant outfits, they were still distinctly different from women's clothing of the same period. Even the simpler dress of the Greeks and Egyptians show differences between male and female clothing. And even if men and women did dress the same during some era, so what? It has been the case in the west for over 200 years that men don't wear women's clothing unless they are intentionally trying to be provocative or in the rare case of gender dysphoria. Everyone with half a brain knows that Harry Styles was wearing a woman's dress. That was the whole point. Not to show off some great fashion (because the dress was ugly as hell), but to be provocative. It's like someone dying their hair bright pink and getting face tattoos and then complaining that people stare. They designed it to be out of the ordinary and to grab attention. Not through actual beauty (because if it was, the dress or some other clothing would actually be nice), but by being controversial. But the funny thing is that everyone deep down knows what a masculine man actually is. But they lie to themselves thinking some idiot on a magazine in a dress looking like he couldn't lift anything heavier than a cosmopolitan glass is somehow manly and attractive. And to some extent this self-imposed brainwashing works, until they actually have to choose between men that are masculine and those dainty types who worry about the color of their nails and whether their shoes match their bag.

[@destinymace]

@@kev3d ok, so? You are acting like you're gonna die if you even see someone do something you don't do.

[@wildanfatihg]

So you're telling me that some people would see Indonesian men wearing brightly coloured batiks with floral patterns to official events as 'unmanly'?

[@katharineeavan9705]

Yes. Pretty much. But those people are also almost always racists anyway, so they probably wouldn't get past the ethnicity in order to judge the clothing.

[@christianknuchel]

@@katharineeavan9705 They'd consider it "ethnic clothing", file it under "other" and close the case.

[@Basedhistoryenjoyer]

Just wait til they discover how thin the fabrics are and watch them go "thIs Is sO InAprOprIAtE" lmao

[@birdyfeederz7940]

@@christianknuchel I agree you. "Manly men" would ignore this. "Other" isn't competition, so doesn't need judged as manly or not. Unless they start dating american women... Then they'd probably think it's unmanly

[@renren2740]

imagine wearing batik with...sarong, the so called 'skirts' by those people. They must be fainted seeing my late grandpa in those garbs

[@S.Kwasher]

The way you said 'men went FCKING FERAL' had me cackle out loud :'''D

[@TurtleChad1]

A Turtle approves this message.

[@hellothere-bo7bn]

thanks, turtle

[@pho_is_not_interesting]

Thank you turtle. very cool

[@dcastillo1503]

You're a saint

[@ViolentAurora]

Am I a crazy person or did I see you comment on the newest game grumps video.

[@verymuchadisappointment168]

Keep doing God's work 😌👌

[@hambone4984]

Reminds me of how my husband is CONSTANTLY told he's too feminine or "obviously" gay (usually called a gay slur) where we live in New England because he has long hair that goes down to nearly his butt. He keeps it long because it's a symbol of his spirituality/connection to pre-colonized culture in the village he grew up in. Literally has nothing to do with his masculinity or his sexuality. But ya, masculinity can only be shown with buzz cuts and giant lumberjack beards lol

[@Sovereignty3]

I remember when girls at school were comparing actors/characters and I couldn't understand how she could put thus short haired guy over Legolas. This was about right after it was released. Actually a few of my friends tended to prefer characters with longer hair (Thor) over the actual actor, or other characters in the movie. Hell I am always disappointed when in Fanfiction they cut a guys hair short. Though I can understand why someone wants to have shorter hair. Its probably going to be a hot summer this year...

[@mish2326]

@@Sovereignty3 what! Putting anyone above Legolas is a disgrace

[@leslieyancey5084]

I love long hair on a man! It doesn't look effeminate at all!

[@ohmykittensgalore6946]

Omg foolish ppl! To me, a man with long hair is displaying his sexual prowess

[@makka2634]

@@ohmykittensgalore6946 Strongly agreed. I respect them more because longer hair is hard to take care of. Lots of work and patience to remain it shiny and pretty, even I gave up and have been a short haired girl for now.

[@the-ma-an]

I absolutely love how men just consistently decreased their clothing options over time because they couldn't handle women also wearing them

[@Shinkicker07]

x'D

[@giomar89]

That’s the greatest summary of fashion history ever

[@TheVirtualJenesis]

Oh woww that's deep.

[@NoiseDay]

@Sofía Roura I wonder why, if it's true, women spend more on fashion. Could it be because all the advertising is targeted toward women, encouraging them to be "fashionable" and shaming them if they aren't?

[@rebeccac5021]

@@NoiseDay it could be the marketing post war was predominantly along the lines of “gals watch out, there are only a few guys, left, if you want a husband you better look sharp, and spend a lot of money and time on your looks” Unfortunately even when the population evened out again, the scare tactic continued. Gotta love using people’s fear of dying alone to motivate them 😳

[@jadeayla7548]

"the time where men would go to war and die, jeez do I miss that" Sarcasm 💯

[@shoshimp1309]

Last time I was this early, menly men wore high heals, makeup, and wigs.

[@tuyetb3753]

same

[@lgbtqiarights]

the manliest men imo are the ones brave enough to defy the gender norms for men in society also, hey, btw, a lil edit, manly men is a ridiculous term. fashion trends change too much for there to be any set “manliness”, and in the end, manliness is too fucking simple and restrictive for all men to go by. fuck gender norms, return to being yourself

[@haveagoodmourning]

@@lgbtqiarights Hell yeah they are, preach

[@starthelotus3453]

Last time I was this early, Egyptian men wore long wigs and their kings wore extravagant golden headpieces Oh wait, I have never been earlier than an hour ):

[@jrojala]

This is the best version of this comment I’ve ever. seen.

[@paulinem.2895]

"Wearing a skirt doesn't mean you're not masculine. Masculinity doesn't come from clothes. It comes from something inside you. Men and women can wear the same clothes and still be men and women. ” ~ Jean-Paul Gaultier

[@CatWithAHat2HD]

I don't think this is a conversation. In the sense that it's 2 sides talking at each other, and not with each other. Did signifiers of manliness change over time and space? Yes, obviously. I doubt the ppl complaining at modern men being woosses actually mean to say that they didn't - that's patently ridiculous and, as you've pointed out, it's a fact known by basically everyone who's ever been in a Church for instance. I suspect that waht they mean, is that they dislike the blurring of there being clear signifiers of gender when it comes to dress codes. Clothing tells you stuff about the person it's on, and "I am a man, by which I understand, among other things, that I hold virtues x and y dear" is a rather meaningful statement. (Same for the woman equivalent of it for that matter.) The issue I think these ppl have with "girls in dresses" is not that they are promoting dress wearing as an evolution in style choices for men. It's that they are seemingly saying that said style choice is merely that, rather than a statemetn of social and more generally moral values. At best that's what they think they mean. At worst they mean to imply that making such statements is, in and of itself, notonly not mandatory, but actually rather gauche. And that's a VERY radical statement clothed in a seemingly easy going discussion about fashion accessories (pun intended). . You're free to be on the "progressive" side of this arguiment if you want. Though that would make you a pretty bad Catholic to be fair - that's none of my business though, and certainly outside of the confines of this discussion. What I do strongly object to you doing, is presenting this as if there wasn't a serious argument about morality and perhaps axiology going on here. All that is is a rhetorical framing device to make the "conservative" side look insane here, and that's not fair. They are not insane, they may lack the ability to articulate what it is that bothers them exactly about the matter, but as I hope I have semi-competently explained, they are deffinitely on to something. . Also: agreed @Korean Savior, fake and gay.

[@weevilsneevil]

@@CatWithAHat2HD I think I get what you're saying, but I wonder, why does that matter? Why does it matter if the lines between social signifiers for men and women are "blurred"? (I mean, you can very much still tell Harry Styles is a dude, I don't think anyone's confused on that lol) Gender "signifiers" are created by society, and they change over time, as you have acknowledged. Gender isn't inherently tied to clothes. Nobody cares that women wear pants now, but once upon a time that was a big deal, it was scandalous, it was wrong. A hundred years from now nobody will give a damn about men wearing dresses. Call me radical or whatever, but why should preserving these gender signifiers matter? Why do we need to be able to tell what someone's gender is by looking at them? You can just ask them. People don't owe anyone a statement of their moral and social values through their fashion. Even then, if someone dresses in a way where you can't tell their gender, it is probably intentional. And I don't get why people think that's not ok. It really is none of our business how they choose to present their gender. Their gender is nobody's business but theirs. I don't think your viewpoint is insane, but in the end I don't think making arbitrary assumptions about people based on the way they dress is a particularly important practice to conserve. Sure, it'd be nice to tell someone's gender at first glance since that's what we're used to doing, but I don't particularly see the value in preserving that standard if it makes some people stress over and feel uncomfortable with how they present themselves. It is really easy to just ask "what's your gender?" or "what are your pronouns?"

[@CatWithAHat2HD]

​@@weevilsneevil Yes, what a given piece of clothing (or style, or w/e) means changes over time, just like words' meanings change over time. But abolishing them meaning anything at all means abolishing not just the word (that would be fine, words go out of use all the time) but the laguage altogether. Now that doesn't happen all the time, especially not if the language isn't replaced by another one. That's weird in a concerning kind of way. . The use of the communication that clothing customs provide is somewhat obvious. When I see you wearing a latex miniskirt I might think that you're more open to sexual advances than if you were wearing a long, fabric one, more in the style of a few decades ago. That's not me being evil and lecherous, it's you wielding this particular form of language to signal to men around you, totally non-verbally, in what kind of mood you are tonight. That's really freaking useful! And this sort of thing can apply to less risqué situation too ofc. Dress in a suit: ppl know you mean business, dress like a hippie: ppl know you mean to chill, etc.. And just so we're clear about this point: I'm sure that, in the past, you signaled "being chill" using a different set of clothing attributes, that also probably had subtly different meanings to them too. That's not the point. The point is that you are signaling and that's pretty valuable. No words. No attention neded from the "speaker". Just by noticing the "speaker", you can tell something about them. Now that something might be false or misleading - I'm not saying you're being very smart if you pass final judgement on ppl based on the way they look. I'm saying that making first impressions as semantically rich as possible is rather practical for everyone involved. If I'm not interested in seeking the services of a harlot, and I see a woman dressed in a way typical of harlots, I might not offer her a drink. That way I save money and she saves time she could have spent on wooing a customer who's actually willing to pay for her services. If I meet Jenny from marketing, but she's wearing a Hawaiian t-shirt and a pair of shorts, I may not talk to her about work. Her clothing is basically screaming at me "I'm not in the mood for that, ya goof!". . Whether there should in fact be differences in the way women and men act (I mean the non strictly necessary ones, men aren't going to start giving birh anytime soon anyway, so there is no real need to be thinking about how to deal with that) is a seperate discussion to be had, and one that is at least a few degrees of more serious than this one. My point is though, that it actually IS the discussion that some ppl seem to be insisting isn't happening under the guise of this one, where it rather obviously is. There may very well be confused meanies out there that are really bad at articulating their point (or indeed even formulating it in their heads to begin with), but they sure are unto something. They may not know what is wrong, but they can feel there's something wrong, and the other side is just dismissing them and telling them they are seeing things where there is nothing to be seen. Regardless of what your position on gender identity is, you have to acknowledge it is a very fundamental issue of how society is organised. . Now to your point about dressing in gender bending ways as a strictly private matter. Well, kinda, maybe, I'm not so sure about it though. Again, it's a language you're wielding here. Dressing like if you were a woman, if you're not, sends messages to everyone around you that will essentially make them confused about what's happening. In a sense you are lying to them. And maybe that's the sort of speech that should be 100% protected. Again: another discussion. But my point here is that I'm not quite so sure that you get to say that you were being a totally autonomous individual, minding your own business in the corner over there, and these evil meanies suddenly started acting all aggressive towards you for no reason, if what you've done for the past 15 min was constantly lie to them, and they just found out. Kicking your jaw in would probably be a bit of an overreaction, but calling you a cunt and leaving the room is probably fair game. Especially that we're talking about a context ppl understandably get emotional about, as it's a central one for how we form the most significant bonds with each other: sex. Thusly your gender is not just your business I'm afraid. Especially if you insist on distinguishing it from your sex. If gender is your social sexual identity then, well, it's social. It's the rule set your sexuality uses to interacts with others (socially, not mechanically...) Now there is a major problem with there being too many "genders" that becomes readily apparent at this point: namely that, if there is too many, the rule sets become so diverse, that it's impossible to effectively signal which one you're adhering to, so the whole purpouse of clothing signifiers is lost. But again: different discussion. For now, my point is merely that the way you present yourself to others is not strictly morally just about you; it's also about said others. You don't get to say to the judge "Well your honour, when I told the hitman to murder my sister, I was actually just making sounds that, in my mind, had no particular meaning to them, so I'm not guilty." You don't get to define what words mean, because they are not yours. You're just using them as you do with the tram or the sidewalk. The conflict begins where this analogy falls apart: if enough ppl decide no longer to use the sidewalk, the sidewalk still exists; if enough ppl, like you, decide no longer to adhere to speaking the language of clothing, it makes it meaningless to everyone, not just you. And, as a final clarification: changing the language is not what I'm objecting to here. I'm objecting to you 1) totally dismantling it for everyone 2) pretending like it's not what you're doing 3) calling ppl that notice and call you out on it "meanie poopooheads" beacuase some of them use less than competent rhetorical forms.

[@weevilsneevil]

@@CatWithAHat2HD I feel like we disagree fundamentally on a few things here. 1. The way someone dresses is not an invitation to sex. Assuming that can be really dangerous for people, particularly women. I know you probably know this already and have heard it many times, but I just like to reiterate it whenever I can. It's ok to approach people with the intent of having consensual sex with them, but if they say no, you ALWAYS have to back off, even if they're dressed, as you said, "like a harlot". BUT I don't think its appropriate to pass judgements on people based on how they dress. They could just like the way it looks on them. Ideas like this ("if someone is dressing immodestly they must be promiscuous and therefore want to have sex with me") are often used to excuse RAPE (people say "you shouldn't have dressed that way, that's just asking for it"), and that's why I think we should stop this nonsense. People use it as an excuse to blame rape victims for what happened to them, and if we all agree rape is a terrible, disgusting, extremely BAD thing, why would we keep this system of thought in place that leads to rape? If that logic truly holds (that people assume women want to have sex with them when they wear revealing clothing, and therefore the rape was "justified"), then if we stop assuming people dressed scantily want to have sex all the time, there would be fewer rapes (although that is just bullshit because people rape children and modestly-clothed people all the time), and I think that would be worth it. This is an entirely DIFFERENT conversation though and is not really related to gender expression, the real topic here. 2. I understand the "dress appropriately for the tone" thing, like you wouldn't go shirtless to a business meeting, but that's really not related to the discussion at all. The discussion is about gender expression and stereotypes. We have limited people to specific types of clothes based on their gender, and we shame them if they don't abide by a strict, arbitrary, and pointless system of gender expression. I feel like men should be allowed to wear dresses and skirts and practice basic hygiene without being made fun of for being "girly" or "gay" (not even going to talk about the inherent misogyny in that). I think women shouldn't be shamed for not shaving or not wearing makeup, or dressing "masculine". I think we shouldn't assign gender to clothes, and I don't think we should judge people on the way they dress. I don't really care if u agree or not as long as u don't bully ppl bc they don't fit how you see the world, ya feel me? 3. You said, "Whether there should in fact be differences in the way women and men act . . . is a seperate discussion to be had, and one that is at least a few degrees of more serious than this one. My point is though, that it actually IS the discussion that some ppl seem to be insisting isn't happening under the guise of this one, where it rather obviously is." I don't think anyone is pretending that the conversation isn't about gender expression. Yes, we DO want the lines to be blurred between the way women and men act. We want men to be able to wear dresses and we want women to be able to exist in their natural state (with body hair). I really don't get how that's bad? It would allow people to be themselves without fear of being shamed for not fitting in. 4. I don't know your opinions on trans people, but I really disagree with your argument here. I don't think "dressing like a woman when you're not" is lying to others. They are dressing how they want to be perceived, and I think that's arguably one of the purest expressions of the soul there is. People don't dress a certain way for no reason, and they sure as hell don't need to dress for others if they don't want to. If a guy dresses "like a woman", it's probably because he likes doing that and feels at his best when he is dressed that way. And he doesn't owe it to anybody to dress otherwise or explain his fashion choices. If you're talking about transwomen, well, it's similar but the implications are far different. They get accused of "lying" when they are literally just trying to be themselves. This is far too serious a subject to make light of when transwomen are regularly MURDERED for being trans. In the end, though, trans people don't owe an explanation of their gender identity. Forgive me here, but, if ya get pissed at a person for expressing themselves in a way that is not harmful to anyone, then you really ARE a "meanie poopoohead". I get being confused, it is kind of understandable for anyone who has never known a trans person or studied gender identity, but it doesn't hurt you at all to be confused about someone else's gender for a few minutes. For a trans woman, being who she is could cost her her life. It costs you nothing to be respectful. 5. I actually have one more thing to add! You said, "And, as a final clarification: changing the language is not what I'm objecting to here. I'm objecting to you 1) totally dismantling it for everyone 2) pretending like it's not what you're doing 3) calling ppl that notice and call you out on it "meanie poopooheads" beacuase some of them use less than competent rhetorical forms." We aren't really totally dismantling it for everyone (ik ik you say we r just pretending but that's really not true!!). We really are just changing the language, so that it is more inclusive. If you want to abide by the current ways of gender expression, feel free to do so!! Nobody is stopping you, my guy--we would never want to. You do you! People exist that you can't always classify into neat categories. It's been this way for as long as humanity has existed--there is evidence of the existence of non-binary and trans people in ancient Sumer, one of the very first human civilizations. Native religions have celebrated and acknowledged people outside the gender binary for centuries, and homosexuality has been documented in most known civilizations. I guess my point is, the rules are more arbitrary than they are made to seem, and I feel like there is room for expansion and inclusion so that everyone can feel comfortable expressing themselves how they see fit.

[@pinkneko13]

@@weevilsneevil guys can I get a TL;DR?

[@luss1763]

Oh, and also all the Pharaohs, with lots of makeup, wigs, body oils, perfume and even waxing!

[@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459]

“Masculine” and “feminine” clothes and fashions are social constructs. It’s always fun to watch conservatives talk themselves into knots trying to push universal gender roles lol

[@skurinski]

how ironic considering liberals these days are transing kids for those very same gender roles and stereotypes...

[@nelsama0881]

I am with you. Also I adore your profile picture!

[@peripateticmind8461]

So you're saying that Harry Styles wearing that dress is basically him flexing his manly wealth and ability to afford manly high fashion upon lesser men??? 😱

[@TheVirtualJenesis]

Ooo 👀

[@Misora7303]

Sounds legit

[@kraziiXIII]

Like gowns are fucking expensive and a lot more varied than suits as a whole so I have no doubt that gown is more expensive than a lot of "manly men" fashion.

[@handsoaphandsoap]

That dress probably cost more than my yearly wage tbh

[@iciajay6891]

And his comfort with his own body/ sexuality. If you feel like a bit of fabric jeopardizes you sexuality.... you got more problems then some dude in a dress.

[@camerontorres3872]

“Men who wear dresses aren’t men” [Laughs in Roman Empire]

[@kev3d]

Togas are not dresses. Roman men and women dressed very differently in clothing, hair styles, and makeup.

[@ina7133]

kev3d hmm sure they were a bit diffrent from each other but you gotta be honest my dude. A toga is a dress.

[@sarahmatthews5878]

@@ina7133 No it isn't, just like a kilt is not a skirt.

[@klausd.6285]

@@sarahmatthews5878 .... Definition A 1 of skirt: a free-hanging part of an outer garment or undergarment extending from the waist down. Definition of a kilt: a garment resembling a knee-length skirt of pleated tartan cloth, traditionally worn by men as part of Scottish Highland dress and now also worn by women and girls. Please note on how the word “skirt” is used. A kilt IS a skirt, get over it.

[@ReptilianTeaDrinker]

@@kev3d Alright, but in Scotland, men wear kilts and it's very manly. Kilts ARE basically skirts. They just are; Don't argue with me. You sound like one of those people trying to shit on men who wear skirts and you're reaching so damn hard to try and prove a point. Also, kilts/just tartan skirts really are also worn by women. A KILT IS LITERALLY A SKIRT. IT IS THE SAME THING. I wear skirts, I fucking know what a skirt is, so don't even argue, sweetie. The level of reaching that you just tried to do is fucking pathetic. Get over yourself.

[@birchbarks550]

Wasn't pink a manly color? Because it stems from red and it was seen as powerful and manly (a vibrant red was also expensive I think? At least in clothing)

[@wandanemer2630]

That is true, yes.

[@BlitzsieLDiscoLSnow]

All vibrant colours were very expensive :) But red and blue one of the most yeah. Pink was indeed supposed to feel powerful and manly, as it was an colour full of energy and passion. Whilst soft muted blue was a toned-down colour, suitable for women who weren't supposed to stand out much. But a company in the US made a fatal mistake once, where they mislabeled the pink and blue baby clothes and since then there's been a shift to seeing blue as a boy's colour and pink as a girl's colour.

[@adarshjkalathil]

@@BlitzsieLDiscoLSnow THE POWER OF CAPITALISM

[@timdrake719]

Yes. This was true before WWII. Blue was a calming color for girls.

[@di7209]

@@timdrake719 Wasn’t it also to do with the Virgin Mary in Catholic parts of Europe or is that just a myth

[@JennyT101]

One fact I loved reading about the 18th century when men wore stockings, is that people judged men's legs. George Washington apparently had great legs. All the ladies said so. I actually read that in a book from a reputable historian. He was also an elegant dancer and rode a horse very well. He was the total package.

[@dietsnowflake]

“Long hair is for women only” Jesus: AM I A JOKE TO YOU 🗿

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

lol in reality, Jesus would have had short hair bc he was jewish and had not taken a nazirite vow. tho it is funny that their depiction of jesus conflicts with the long hair thing

[@roxanne_]

@@greatestaxolotl4933 what the truck?! So my whole life was a lie-

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

@@roxanne_ I guess? lol. he also wasn't white but i think most people know that by now haha

[@Asia-zd1rg]

@@roxanne_ wait till I tell you he wasn't white.... And probably not straight.

[@alansmods1775]

Just that came to my mind

[@skug9bob]

When they talk about the "good old days", it's usually some fictionalized 40s, 50s, or maybe pre-Hippie early 60s. Most of human history and most of humanity just doesn't come into it.

[@jontae-bloodtaell6080]

That shits annoying esp when almost anyone ever saying usually didn't even live then... as a comment had said The bible wasn't written in the 1950s usa so chilllll

[@tristanband4003]

Even in those forties and fifties....

[@painunending4610]

Whenever a guy uses the 50's as an example of the 'good ol' days' I have to remind them that the thing that precluded the 50's and made them so 'great' was a fucking world war. Like bro chances are heavy you would have died face down in the mud I saw one of those 'what happened to men' videos and the thumbnail showed a Vietnam soldier. Like bro you think it was better when young men were sent off to foregoing countries to die by the thousands. Do you mate men? Ugh

[@abroom3908]

Men don't wear dress *Laughing in Chinese traditional man dress*

[@yama123numbercauseytdemand4]

Laughing in traditional [insert most culture names] man dress. :D

[@LoveLove-fp2rn]

Laughing in Indian traditional dresses

[@slyninja4444]

Funny how thats one of the reasons why I find Ancient China more interesting than Rome. The facts that its DIFFERENT is what makes it interesting.

[@abroom3908]

@@slyninja4444 umm because I chinese 🤷

[@Macmumoz]

And Scottish, Greek, Tongan... basically anywhere in the Pacific...

[@sangwoooyametekudasai9216]

Forget manly men. Everybody in a french maid outfit. N O E X C E P T I O N S

[@gonsonandenschinder]

c a t b o y s

[@sangwoooyametekudasai9216]

@@gonsonandenschinder please stop! I can only simp this much

[@PomegranatePomPom]

YESSSSS

[@haleskiss]

I consider it a public service not to do this.

[@uncrystallize3831]

Maid outfit supremacy? ✨Y E S !✨

[@emmabennett7699]

Candace Owens: The East knows this Karolina: Don't even get me started on any culture that isn't western I think you should get started, Karolina.

[@rosietales]

That took me out because she clearly doesn't know anything. I think it's also time to start Karolina.

[@Artechiza]

Well, she specializes in western fashion and that is already a lot. I think I'd prefer to watch someone from an East Asian country talk about their fashion history

[@sofia_rms]

@@Artechiza yeah, same

[@cretancaptainidomeneus534]

Yeah, it was such a missed opportunity she did not show the Akkadian king's head. Love that piece, the hair alone probably took hours to style...

[@MicukoFelton]

@@rosietales 'she clearly doesn't know anything' why are just assuming that, any proof? and well, if you're such a pro, you make a video about it.