Yamaha 1202 Mixer Mic Preamps vs. Class A Chilton QM3 - Part 2

[@etherealvintage6665]

They're both respectable. Yamaha sounds very nice and professional. Heard a bit of a warmer sound from the Chilton, perhaps.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Slight cleaner ‘air’ from the Chilton

[@etherealvintage6665]

@@jamiedurrantmusician Just found your channel. You're doing a great job. I love this old vintage professional gear. Great to use the old and new stuff. Keep doing what you're doing!

[@stevenewtube]

I’ve mixed on he 1202 many times at festivals. They sound great.

[@jessetimmmiller1870]

To my ear the Yamaha sounds darker and punchier, while the Chilton has a tighter more focused sound (more glue/cohesion). Both are great!

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

@@jessetimmmiller1870 yeah the Chilton is more clean and open, Yamaha certainly more darker… soon I have an old PM-430 arriving here - that can be fatter and darker and have some great distortion tonality for a vintage hip-hop drum tone - some showcasing to come on the channel soon, plus next week another full recording made via a 1604.

[@uselessbeforecoffee]

Dig it! Definitely prefer the Chilton, but the Yamaha isn't bad! (And looks pretty cool too)

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Nice old things hey?

[@toddgreenwood9631]

MY REPORT Thanks for this vid. The Harmony sounds great (much to my surprise and I'll bet there are a few others that would not think a wall ornament would sound this nice). I took about ten runs through the piece then listened to several looped areas. Listening one Mackie HR842s from then switched to Sony MDR-7506 cans. - Listening the first few times I only heard minuscule differences the type that may be subject to imagination. (it was morning and I may have not quite being tuned in yet) - Then I thought I could hear a slight change as if changes were made to the lower mids. Sounded as if the Chilton had had a lower mid adjustment were as the Yamaha was left a little more flat in the same area. - Eyes open I could hear the differences which leads me to believe my interpretation could be subjective as I watched the screen to see which unit was being used. - Then I did an eyes closed test (because I was thinking "maybe this jerk just used one mixer to prove what a pretentious idiot I was") but I could hear the transition so I apologize for this paranoid assumption. - During the eyes closed test, there was a marked difference with again the Yamaha sounding slightly flatter (to me). The Chilton had what I would say was a better quality sound but not miles different and not something that couldn't be adjusted to get more air and less mud into the sound. Notes: listening on the Sonys was pointless. Someday I may have to do a product review on these Sonys. I bought two pair because I wanted a matched pair of industry standard phones to use while tracking clients. They are okay for a vocalist because they are bright and scooped and vocalists seem to like that and they are closed backed and isolated enough to keep most of the clicking and backing track bleed out but I found the scoop to be a terrible feature for things like drumming and loud electric guitar. The Sonys are also fine for tracking acoustic instruments. The other things I dislike about these Sonys is the way they fold up and the stupid curly cord. The curly cord grapples on to all sorts of shit and is not detachable so if you have someone who inadvertently walks away from their station the phones get yanked (oh it happens all the time with people you think would know better). One thing that is really great about modern phones is that a lot of them have a jack insert where a cable can be swapped and they simply become unplugged if the cord gets caught on something. The other thing I dislike about them is the way they fold up. They are fine if you stick them on a singers head and they stay there til the singer takes them off at the end of a tracking period but in my case, tracking my self playing instruments or singing, I may put phones on and off a hundred times in a day, the curly cable is always grabbing stuff and the way they fold up (I assume they fold up like that to save space when storing or traveling) I find them quite like picking up a sulking child who doesn't want to be picked up. My old phones can much more easily be put on and taken off with one hand and that is necessary when trying to wrangle a guitar or, god help you a fiddle or banjo where you've got a bow or fingerpicks on one hand and an instrument in the other. For drums they are just too hyped sounding. I have 3M safety phones for tracking drums. Very flat, no bottom but really good isolation. I can track drums with those and keep the phones quite quiet. At my age, keeping the volume at or reasonably low is important to minimize hearing damage and not spike my tinnitus. Further Notes: Listening is so subjective. I remember as a child going to sleep and listening to the tick tock of a clock. I could distinctly hear the difference of the two tones. But with practice I could change the way I heard "tick tock" to more of a "tock tic". On further experimenting and later opening the clock I came to realize that the two sounds I thought I was hearing were both the same sound. The mechanism was making just one tone with every tick. So now when doing listening tests I'm always aware of how fickle my perception can be. It can drive you nuts. But Jamie makes a beautiful presentation here. the Harmony guitar sounds so wonderful. It has an earthiness one might not be able to get from a Taylor or a Larivee. Same thing with this comparison. We all know the Chilton is a better board with old world engineering and better components. But ... is it better sounding or just different. Nice thing about that harmony is that it sounded like the intonation was good. But aside from intonation and playability I've found myself for years saying that there are now good or bad sounding guitars, just different. Around your campfire any guitar sounds better than no guitar.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Interesting story here - but the main point has been made - the Yamaha is incredibly close to a class A desk. I feel the Chilton has a a slightly more open airy top end, more headroom dynamics, flatter low mids and less noise. If I simply recorded an A/B of the noise coming from the Yamaha preamp gain on the acoustic guitar, then you’d know why the Chilton is better. But it’s marginal. The Yamaha is a bit thicker in low mid, and perhaps more compressed in natural dynamics. Has less air on the top end. But $100 vs $20K… wow - this comparison has even floored me!!!

[@jamisonfrench]

Not seeing any comments on the difference between the two in regards to depth and stereo field. The spread on the Yamaha is much wider.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Now there's an interesting point! You've made me want to listen again! Standby

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

There is for sure a more detailed stereo spread on the Yamaha mix, but that could be my mix balance error - I’m going to load up the mixes and check my pan settings now

[@jamisonfrench]

That would definitely be interesting to know! Please keep us updated. 🙏

[@nicolasboursier4593]

This sounds amazing man! Well done! What do you use as interface audio to record in your computer ? Thxxx

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Cheers thank you! I’m currently using RME converters and a Hanmrfall card - it’s a very old system but high spec

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Pls see this video for more detail kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooCzaWNsgceBrZI

[@Zif-the-Old-Herring]

The 1202 added a bit of hair to the sound. Less sparkle. The Chilton offered more to work with later.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Apologies for the very late reply! The Chilton is more open and natural, what do you mean by 'hair"?

[@saadanasilmamuna2880]

Seems like the Yamaha is not passing through the snare sound cleanly ... it starts to fight with the guitar highs and the "opacity" of the guitar somehow changes. All the frequencies are there but the clarity is lost. And well, I am listening it on an old mid-level tablet. You have not amended a scheme how you splitted the mike signals ... I very much hope the experiment was set up correctly? Not taking the second signal from DO of the first console or smth?

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Your comments are fair! The mics were split with cables so, direct mic outputs to each individual console mic preamp inputs

[@ShaqSoWavii]

Chilton sounds phat and warm while the yamaha has more snap and openess. I'm curious to know how 90's drum n bass would sound on both consoles

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Apologies for the very late reply! What do you mean by 90s drum and bass ... are you talking about specific instruments, or 90s drum n bass dance/techno?

[@ShaqSoWavii]

Thanks for the response! I meant the genre of drum n bass/techno

[@ThomasL]

Would be really curious to compare the Chilton to Yamaha RM series (RM804/1608/2408) !

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

I'd be happy to try it out, although I believe this series may not have transformer inputs, so may not be as full and thick sounding.

[@ThomasL]

@@jamiedurrantmusician Ok ! I've heard they are being called "The Japanese Neve" surprisingly

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

@@ThomasL LOL EQ like a Neve for the old ones, but the preamp is not the quality of Neve... But I get the point!

[@ThomasL]

@@jamiedurrantmusician Ahah I see, I've heard that, and I own a RM804, I plan on buying a 1073 to compare myself, but yeah, I was kinda surprised to hear this.

[@the_newvoice]

I like the guitar on Chilton and a kit on Yamaha.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Such is the beauty of choice!

[@chrisgates7756]

I'm hearing a fairly significant difference, Jamie....the Chilton is much smoother in the top end.....and almost more 3d in its sound stage.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Yep. You must have good monitors

[@toddgreenwood9631]

And interestingly enough, my outboard mixer is a Yamie MC802. Can't say that I'm up to comparing mine to yours but perhaps you have an opinion on this mixer. I traded a PV 24 for it in the 90s when I went from a road musician to a stay at home studio guy. I've used it extensively in my home studio without complaint from me. When I bought it from another live sound engineer the guy told me it was broadcast quality, whatever that means. The MC802 came into play when I went to a Roland hard disk recorder in '97 (VS1680). My tests with the Roland led me to feel that the pre-amps in the unit did not cut it. So I fired up the MC and it was way better. Now days I'm running Clarett and Scarlet. I tested my MC against the Scarlett, it couldn't beat the Scarlett but it any wasn't less gooder. (the Yamie was noisier though) I'm interested to know (perhaps you said but I didn't get it) if you ran the Yamaha or the Chilton through the mains on each unit or did you just take a line from the channel strip. I'm assuming that you just took a line from the channel strip but the reason I mention it is that I used to run my MC802 signal through the channel and then to the mains and then to the VS. This gave a little bit more color and beef plus I could use the strip eqs.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

No I’m not running any direct outs - the Yamaha is not modified. Both the mic channels on Yamaha and Chilton go through the bus sends, in the Yamaha case, main L, R, FB and Echo sends. I think the 90s Yamahas have much cheaper, thinner sounding EQs and possibly don’t have the transformer input. The result is a heartless, gutless nothing tonality. I hate the MC desks! The earlier series have fantastic EQ and as I’ve demonstrated, bloody good mic preamps!

[@toddgreenwood9631]

@@jamiedurrantmusician And the MCs are really ugly to boot. It sits sadly in a case and only gets pulled out for the odd live gig.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

@@toddgreenwood9631 I say ditch it and look out for an earlier series desk

[@eljardincitorecords7787]

Hi Jamie! Hi, I'm thinking of buying one to use in my home studio, does it have individual outputs on each channel? if so, pre eq or post? Thanks in advance!

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

No, individual channel outs need to be custom modified by a tech, I just used main outs L+R and a FB send to get 3 channel outs

[@travisraab]

came for the cool looking analog thing stayed for fancy accent

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Fancy accent? Lol - do I sound so different? Where are you from may I ask? I bet you sound cooler than me!!

[@edsavage6214]

The Chilton sounds bigger and fuller, defenately prefer it on the guitar. On drums I think the Yamahas are very respectable, and perhaps could even be better than the Chiltons depending on the song/context.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

I also agree the Yamaha is cool for drums

[@lionelluney3063]

the old school yammie probably needs somTLC theyve been my secret weapon for years, well RM800 anyway

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Yeah it does, a re-cap would improve its performance

[@HalcyonGuitars]

Chilton for the win 100%, but in tests like these, I’d love to hear if you could make one sound like the other with some eq…

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

You know, I believe you could not make the Yamaha sound like the Chilton because the Yamy simply does not reproduce the natural air and openness - and that’s why a class A preamp usually is preferred

[@in.der.welt.sein.]

The Yamaha sounds a little brighter and punchier to my ears. The Chilton sounds fatter and warmer. Both sound good.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Both have character and a ‘sound’ which in a way proves the usefulness of lower cost Yamaha

[@caminglis53]

Chilton sounds way more Neve than yam the yam sounds cheap I think for thoses that think it’s like Neve that’s probably because it’s muffled and not as thin as sounding as something modern but gosh if compared to Neve’s I have it would be complete rubbish in comparison, the chilton would compare and it’s probably why the bbc used them back then, and the yam is most likely IC and not discreet Class AB either, so the yam would be more like vintage ssl at best which was built on NE5532 ics throughout But yeah really a huge difference there clearly the chilton is the type of vintage you would want to track through 💯

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

You’re on it!

[@torocruz1192]

Vintage SSL at “best” Neve fan boy on the deck. 😂✌🏽

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

@@torocruz1192 he he

[@caminglis53]

@@torocruz1192 haha na, remember this is Yamaha we’re talking about, big difference in electronics/ and audio design. If Neve isn’t your taste look a UTA they probably have the most advanced audio design ever, beyond Neve and Api no doubt! I’ve also been very much fond of Wonder audio, that thing is like a spaceship and their small console is not bad for the money. I think it’s always a money thing not a comparison thing, and the Yamaha is really not in the same class as any of this.

[@torocruz1192]

@@caminglis53 Yea Cam Neve is not my thing at all, i find them muddy to be honest. I like API a lot and because of it Wonder audio (Paul Wolff) sounds gd to me also. Nd to look at UTA ty. Bt a blind test is where is at for me (Thnx Jamie) I don’t believe anything these companies sell no matter if it is diet drinks or analog audio gear. The Yamaha’s sound gd to my ears. I hv a a pair of racked PM 2000’s and they sound great to me 🤷🏾✌🏽

[@russliquid4858]

night and day the chilton is way better. lol what was your point again?

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

Wow you really think it’s night and day?

[@russliquid4858]

@@jamiedurrantmusician yes i do. Chris Gates articulates very well the difference…. however the yamaha doesn’t suck…. just when you A/B with an unquestionably legendary sounding preamp, the inadequacy of the yamaha is amplified (pun intended)… also the amek motzart isn’t exactly the best board pre’s … even an a/b between that and that chilton would make the Mozart seem like Salieri (Amadeus ref. ha)

[@thedayones4918]

@@russliquid4858 Bet money you can’t tell them apart on a blind test lol 😆✌🏽

[@russliquid4858]

@@thedayones4918 ill take that bet

[@shardsrecordingstudio-matt2247]

It kind of sounds like the difference between a Neve and something clean like Sytek. Both useable if not complimentary in the right situation. Yamaha is a little darker, smeary highs, almost sounds like tape slowed down like .1cent I'm sure you could make great tracks with either!

[@ruby2thursday]

hilarious. i've never heard anyone ('cept myself) praise this series of yamaha boards. but thanks for the comparison...even though i hear the difference a tiny bit(youtube sucks) and am sure the chilton is better...the yamaha is fair. I used this series back in the mid 80's...was my first 'big' board...before i knew what big was in reality. have owned 2 yamaha boards as a result over the years and finally gave up lugging the around. no more live/roadie type work for this old fart.

[@thekeksthesheamusic]

chilton sounds nice more open

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

It sure is!

[@toddgreenwood9631]

I get to be the first 'dork' to say first in this channel????

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

He he

[@davidtushishvili6938]

chilton better.

[@jamiedurrantmusician]

you know it!