Yamaha 841 Custom Duet Oboe review

[@fabmanly1070]

Help wanted. My son is playing the oboe. We have been renting one for about 6 years as we are poor and can’t afford to buy one, But! Alas the time has come and we accept that we need to invest in one for him. He will be attempting his grade 8 next year. I am of the thinking that I would rather skip a student and get something better. I know, crazy talk from someone who can’t really even afford to buy one. But I would rather invest in a better one now, rather than buy an intermediate one only to be discarded in 2 years time. If we buy, we buy once! then let him buy one for himself once he’s working. Was looking at the Howarth S40c, but am unsure. Then I found out about the Yamaha. He uses the American Reed? Not making his own yet. Gets them made by his teacher. Loree is difficult to get hold of in New Zealand.

[@simontai1]

Hey there! Glad you wrote and it is great that you are trying to do the best for your son, oboes are expensive. There’s a new student Yamaha oboe that is almost too good to be considered just that. Do you know of Bede Hanley of Auckland Phil? He just tried them and was very impressed. Yamaha oboes won’t crack like other brands and are very consistent. Also priced well in the market. Best of luck!

[@fabmanly1070]

@@simontai1 wow thanks for answering. Hahahah……..my son got a scholarship through the APO, and is getting lessons from Bede. Yes he was talking about the Yamaha. Crazy small world of the Oboe.

[@fabmanly1070]

@@simontai1 Thank you, he has a Yamaha through Bede. Yes they are very nice and waaaaaaaaaaaay better than what he was using.

[@rodneymills6477]

I learned to make reeds on a Rigoutat which is similar to on the Loree. Marigaux is very forgiving with reeds. Is the Yamaha moreso?

[@simontai1]

Yes, the Yamaha really helps as it has depth, quick response and solid intonation up high! It really aides me as I am almost done a run of 27 Nutcrackers.

[@tomenns7978]

Hi Jasper -- I am thinking of buying a new oboe and am considering trying a Yamaha 841. I play principal in a community orchestra and would like an oboe that is "reed friendly" and has a sound that projects and carries easily in a concert hall. Concerning the Yamaha oboe, which do you think would be better suited for this, the kingwood or the grenadilla wood with or without lining? I play a C series Loree oboe (original owner) which has a recently installed liner in the upper joint -- nice oboe but "reed fussy". Thanks in advance for your advice -- Tom Enns

[@simontai1]

Hi Tom Both instruments will project however the Grenadilla will feel more substantial on stage. On the flip side the Kingwood will feel more flexible like a Loree and rounder in tone. Yamaha isn’t making anymore Kingwood oboes as they are concerned about importing the wood into Japan. Jim Mason has one and three Grenadilla oboes for sale. Have him send you both to try and see what you like. Lined oboes are great for the peace of mind. Hope this helps.

[@tomenns7978]

As a follow up, I bought a Yamaha 841 Custom Duet Grenadilla oboe last June. I am very happy with it. My reeds sound much better on it -- a darker, fuller sound with more depth. I have played it as principal oboe in 3 concerts so far this season in the orchestra -- including playing Brahms 1st Symphony, Bach Third Orchestral Suite, and Sibelius 7th Symphony. As an aside, I have found the transition to it relatively smooth and easy -- surprisingly it's pitched the same as my C series Loree oboe and "blows" about the same.

[@sr14225]

These are very nice instruments, but the ergonomics are not as nice as my Loree Royal. The Royal is so comfortable. However, the low notes on those Yamahas are very responsive and good if you play 2nd oboe. I prefer the kingwood, I think it has a better, more vibrant sound. I hate to use the word dull for the grenadilla, but they just don't "sparkle" quite as much for me as the kingwood oboes. I like the modifications you made, sounds like a good idea.

[@simontai1]

I have come to the exact conclusions as you. Yes I wish it felt like a Royal, I hope yamaha can modify the key work one day. It is an amazing for second oboe especially in opera as soft dynamic have to be so delicate. I use grenadilla Yamaha bells and an old A series Loree bell to help the acoustic depending on the rep and hall.

[@sr14225]

@@simontai1 Does the grenadilla bell help with projection?

[@simontai1]

Sheryl Rohr yes a little. These instruments feel less powerful more so than the exact outcome of the projection.

[@DrSlinkyWW]

Thanks for the review. Really appreciate all your content!

[@hautboisjj]

Just purchased an 831 and is constantly surprised by the depth of sound that these oboes give. Were the cork pads in the bottom changed for sound?

[@simontai1]

The pads slightly change the sound adding more focus and ring. I found that on the grenadilla model there was a bigger difference. Enjoy your new oboe!

[@BradleyBGregory]

What kind of octave vents did you put in this oboe? I can't quite make out the name you mentioned. I'm interested to know more about them, and where to obtain them. Thanks!

[@simontai1]

The octave vents are Loree from their Royale model. I do them for both vents.

[@BradleyBGregory]

@@simontai1 Thanks for clarifying that for me. What effects do the Royale vents seem to have for the intonation and focus of the left-hand notes? Any noticeable changes to right-hand notes with them in?

[@simontai1]

Right hand notes are improved with the vents. The cork pads help give more ring and focus to the notes of the right hand. Maybe a 10% difference or more is what I have noticed. The insert ring I find really makes the biggest change. Order from Jim Mason, quite inexpensive for the amount of benefit. He just got some mid-joint inserts! Video coming......

[@sr14225]

@@simontai1 I tried those oboes from Jim Mason in Canada. I'm not familiar with those insert rings, I'm going to have to look them up.

[@simontai1]

Inserts are a game changer for these oboes! Huge bang for the buck and not a permanent change if you think otherwise. Left hand notes are more focused. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2bUhmqJa6iSqrs

[@jasonmay1542]

Hi Jasper. I have and early grenadilla Yamaha 841 duet (serial # 0081**) that I've been playing on which I really love, but do have a lot of problems easily stabilizing the pitch and accuracy of the middle F on my instrument. This note in the scale tends to land quite sharp with most of my reeds and I've been told this is an inherent problem with the early 841s. Do you find this to be true in any of the others you've played and do you have any advice on correcting it? I currently have the regular F pad about as low as it can be without making the note stuffy. I plan on ordering some of the insert rings you mentioned to see if that helps as well, but any other words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your insightful videos and gorgeous playing.

[@simontai1]

Hi Jason. Most Yamaha oboes that I have tried have flat octave Fs! It’s an area where we open the hole a small amount. John Symer or Brian Seaton can easily do it. Jim Mason has great knowledge about the Yamaha oboe development, he has played on many throughout his career. When you order your inserts ask! I wonder if early on with the duet version they tried to fix this issue by expanding the undercutting rather than the chimney. That area of the oboe is pretty touchy with the tone holes so close together. Hope you can get help with you oboe!

[@AnishProductions]

Can you do a playing demo between the two? Honestly I just love hearing you play haha! But also would be cool to hear such a refined and beautiful player play two instruments side by side. Like an excerpt or something. I have always felt the legato is unmatched on Loree, so that’s interesting that you said the Yamaha is more like a “keyboard” instrument- there is some special poetry between the notes on Loree- but it also really truly amplifies both the good and bad in a reed. The undercutting of the tone holes on Loree kind of facilitates that flexibility I feel. But in the hands of a great player I wonder if I could tell much of a difference. I studied with Linda Strommen and John Ferrillo, and I really hear that similar concept in your playing and sound, so I feel I could understand a bit more how the two instruments differ from hearing you play than with many others whose reeds and values are of a slightly different path.

[@simontai1]

Hi Anish You are right with all your assumptions with regards to the two brands of oboes. I choose the kingwood oboe to help give me more flexibility and colour like those of Loree but it still comes up short. It’s one of the trade offs for better response and intonation. For a comparison of these oboes listen to Bede and Camille play Vivaldi’s double oboe concerto! Bede has a Yamaha with inserts along with an A-series Loree bell and Camille has a B series copy. Both use Ferrillo machines but differ with tubes and shapes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYaboIWFraeSe68 Hard to hear a difference in the legato but it just feels more that way for the player. I find using a pisoni deluxe tube helps with smoothing the instrument out. Hopefully Yamaha can keep improving on what they have.

[@AnishProductions]

Jasper Hitchcock Thank you so much for your reply! This makes complete sense. What matters most is how it sounds to the listener, so thank you for sending along this video! I am currently on a B copy, and I love it, but am always curious about these things. I remember trying a Kingwood Yamaha and being amazed at how truly ease playing the oboe could feel. Would make recording etc. so much easier. Wishing you all the best in this time!

[@simontai1]

@@AnishProductions I had a B copy but I find those instruments have a smooth beautiful sound but at the cost of intonation. You really need great reeds all the time that are up enough.