Yamaha AvantGrand N3X Testimonials: Juilliard School Dr.Michael Shinn

[@MrVara411]

Opinions on any musical instrument are always going to be highly subjective. For my part, I auditioned the Yamaha N3X at my local store for hours and came away very impressed with the piano's action and sound. It's not going to fool a trained ear to think it's hearing an acoustic piano... but it's close. After comparing to other pianos - including acoustic pianos like the widespread Yamaha GB1K 5 footer - I purchased the N3X and am looking forward to many years of playing enjoyment.

[@katherineiriarte1942]

Love this video! Thank you so much for the great information, the fantastic example of playing, and the comparison of the instrument and how it relates to a concert piano!

[@ludwigskirchesaarbrucken5800]

I can understand his points: for outdoor use its probably much better than an acoustic piano, because sun or humidity wouldn't cause mis-tunings. And if you want to practice the "grand" grand key action, an upright at home will always fall short. But if you have the space for a 5-6 foot grand (which will cost you new or refurbished approx. the same, depending on the brand), then go for the real thing! It will last for at least a lifetime, and you'll never have software or electronic hardware issues whatsoever. On the long run that is definitely the better choice. We have a 100 year (1920s) old Blüther, had it restored for 7 grand - and it will last for another 100 years

[@w3sp]

I've tried out the N1, N2, N3X as well as the NV10 yesterday. I didn't get to try the sound with headphones unfortunately, just the speakers. N1: Solid and light feel, I found the sound to be quite thin though. N2: Better sound than the N1, the key-vibration when playing bass notes adds a more realistic, volumnous and nice feel too. Does it justify the price being almost 2x of that of the N1? I don't think so. N3X: Wow, definitely is a very great instrument that has a great feel, great sound and just looks so much more noble than any other hybrid piano. The price however is very extreme. For the same price I'd honestly much rather buy a real accoustic Yamaha GC1 grand piano again. I guess if you have the money to spare and nitpicky neighbors the N3X could be a solid option, but I'd still rate the the value-for-money ratio to be quite bad. Also if you have nitpicky neighbors and thus are going to use headphones mostly anyways, there's no benefit in spending so much extra just for speakers which you aren't using much then. NV10: The keyboard action to me honestly felt sooo much better than the Yamaha's. It just seemed more steady, solid and more premium in general. The sound was very nice too and it does come with tons of different sounds. I'd admit that the speakers were not as good as the N3X but then again the NV10 only costs half as much. Yes, it's still quite a price to pay for a digital hybrid piano, but I found the NV10 to be far superior to the cheaper N1 as well as the more expensive N2. Best value-for-money ratio at the moment imho. Yamaha will have to adjust their prices or Kawai will keep snatching all the N1/N2 customers. As the NV10 is Kawai's first hybrid piano I'm looking forward to seeing their next announcements.

[@Schmidthorst69]

I plan to upgrade my Yamaha Clavinova CLP 545 to a hybrid piano. The Clavinova is really a great DP to play and to learn on. But every time I'm sitting on a real acoustic piano I think that I also want to have that real thing at home. Unfortunately my flat is badly soundproofed and I'm playing a lot in the evening and at night. Therefore a hybrid is my only chance. I also tested some silent pianos but there's too much difference for me with the touch and the keys in the silent mode. So I'm watching many youtube videos, reading lots of threads and I went to a store to compare them all: First I have to agree: Yes, the videos of the Novus NV10 here on youtube are very impressive. So I went very unbiased to my local piano store to test them all: AvantGrand N1x, N2, N3X, Nu1X and the Novus NV10. And after I tested them about a few hours I have to say that I was very disappointed with the Novus 10. OK, it has much more possibilities in choosing piano types and other instruments and you can adjust a lot of tuning. But the sound from the speakers was some kind of muffled and not so rich like here and in many other videos. The playing of the keyboard - like the other Kawai Digital Pianos - was more shaky than smoothe. And finally the finishing was very poor. On the ends of the black keys you could see the pure wood colour when pushing them down because there was no more black colour on it. That made me feeling very bad to sit and play on this piano. The most fun and enjoyment I definitely had on the AvantGrand N2 - even more than on the N3X cause the keyboard on the N2 was a little bit more comfortable for me. Don't know why. Maybe it is also the speaker's sound radiation of the N2 which is better for the player than the radiation of the N3x which is better for audience. So I definitely know that I will save my money for the N2 - irrespective of whether there will be an N2X update in the next years. By the way: We have a Kawai Grand Piano in the school auditorium where I'm working. I play this beautiful piano as often as possible after work. I'm so in love with it. The feel, the touch and the sound is phantastic. But the keyboard is so much different from the Kawai DPs and even the Novus.

[@agaveboy]

you are a moron, Yamaha uses real grand action, i bet you haven't even played a real grand piano.

[@overnightclassic2]

@@agaveboy Yamaha does not use real grand action. It uses baby grand action and the key pivot is not the same as a real grand piano or even a baby grand for that matter. It's definitely short.

[@agaveboy]

@@overnightclassic2 well... it's real action... from a grand... a baby grand... seems real to me.

[@overnightclassic2]

@@agaveboy It's not. Baby grand and grand piano action are not the same. There is a noticeable difference in the pivot length of the keys which affects how you play certain pieces. Even then, this action is even shorter than most baby grands. It's definitely an acoustic type of action but they did cost save as much as possible. The kawaii NV10 action is much more like a REAL grand piano.

[@jonfrommaine1662]

Hoping for an N2X in 2018. In my opinion, a key advantage of the hybrids is a grand piano action in a vertical form factor. The N3X has enhanced the already excellent N3 with new samples, selective control over harmonic resonance and noise gating. What's taking Yamaha so long bringing these improvements to the N2? Kawai jumped them a bit with the NV10.

[@elenalosseva4912]

N2 is getting discontinued in 2021

[@davehorne7207]

It does not have a concert grand action, the action comes from a smaller than six foot model.

[@robertrenk7074]

Sounds very nice. Would love to have one.

[@theoasyskeybs]

It would’ve been much better if Yamaha release a comparison video saying why N3X is best and what makes it flagship among the counterparts !

[@walterthemusician8741]

This is what I want for Christmas! I'm just letting people know early, so that they can order one for my in time!

[@mikebeal2155]

We’re on it.

[@kittypaw3479]

Mike Beal still on it

[@Scouzeboy]

Can it replicate the una corda sound of a grand piano?

[@PhantomofDB]

man, I want one of these

[@santoy1000]

Same ..! 😩

[@downtowneddie1]

The KZbin reviews by many influential artists on Yamaha AvantGrand N3x were outstanding so I went to a Yamaha dealer and checked out N3x. I played for an hour trying to find a reason for me to love it. I failed, it’s a high end digital piano made to look and sound like a grand piano to fit in a small space. Amazing technology but not for me!

[@kiisseli1337]

Still waiting for something to match my skills even close.

[@secretmission7607]

I hear you!

[@bearlemley]

I have the opposite problem

[@cgfischer]

I cannot speak for other users of that piano but my teacher bought one and I must say I'm not very impressed by the sound. It gives me more like a synthetic feeling and compared to my 300€ device, I don't feel like it has a more advanced sound. My teacher also felt that and is now trying to claim the warranty

[@victorlloyd5271]

What does it cost?

[@stephenunger4334]

I have owned a N1, N3 and a 6' and 7' grand. The action on the N3x is not the same as an acoustic grand. There are no hammers, and what is then missing is the feel of a hammer hitting a string. This feel gives a large dynamic range of expressiveness to the pianist. I can easily hear the lack of depth (upper partials) in this recording. As I progressed in my limited ability, the constraint on the N3's dynamic range held me back.

[@constiffpiano2684]

Stephen Unger Are you sure it has no hammers??! What is the purpose of AvantGrand then...What is the point of even calling it a hybrid piano if it doesn't have hammers...

[@Schmidthorst69]

It definitely has hammers. Just no strings.

[@stephankusel208]

I for the life of me can't remember the title of the piece he was playing, does anyone know?

[@stephankusel208]

So now that I remember, I can tell anyone else that is curious, that it's Chopin's ocean etude, I believe the opus 25 and it's no 12 in that work (a quick Google can confirm whether or not I have the work and number correct)

[@secretmission7607]

And here's Pollini playing it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqDPeIFnfdVlrdk

[@Simoncuerrier]

Correct, Chopin’s ocean étude, Op. 25 #12

[@johnstaf]

The AvantGrands have an action similar to a baby grand and not a concert grand.

[@mattysplace4019]

and most baby grands don’t have fine tuned regulated actions as an avantgrand. It’s rare to find a piano at a piano store that sounds and plays well. For me even an 80k piano didn’t have good action response or sound i was looking for.

[@johnstaf]

@@mattysplace4019 The AvantGrands get a fairly basic but adequate regulation. If an acoustic has a less well regulated action, it hasn't been set up properly, or it has been neglected. I like AvantGrands, but they're not comparable to an 80K piano -at least not a fully functional one.

[@Simoncuerrier]

Love the piano, not to be too harsh... but his playing is very sloppy... yikes...

[@buckachiddy]

This is a really sloppy performance of 25/12 😀

[@briancamcginn]

Is he sight reading it?!? WTF this is a promotional video!

[@johnnyli9297]

honestly, that sound is horrendous. sounds 100% digital. almost sounds like i'm listening to the piano through a blanket.

[@chas5131]

at :43 he looks like he is lying

[@scdobserver835]

chas5131 he has a soul, so his facial cues were a dead give-away, you are quite right.

[@MrVara411]

I don't see it, personally.

[@wonderlasting]

Ay, this guy is making too many mistakes. Lost all credibility.

[@Kougeru]

He works at Julliard. Who are you?

[@secretmission7607]

@@Kougeru I'm sorry to say that Jose is correct. This is not a great performance of this piece. AND I believe that was probably due to the piano more than the player - probably because of local latency, though I doubt that this Julliard chap would have been consciously aware of that issue. Everyone misses the point when it comes to digital pianos. The downfall of them is rarely the mechanical action, so using a real grand action - while great - doesn't mean they will feel great! The real issues are various aspects of the programming. Most suffer from some degree of local latency, or their velocity curve is uneven (often due to an insufficient number of samples per note) or their keyboard scaling is incorrect, or their damper pedal programming is wrong (some of the Yamaha digis are very bad in this latter regard, some are not). The whole thing is a shame as it IS perfectly possible to build a digital piano that is as good as an acoustic. But no one's done it yet. Manufacturers: Pay attention to the points I've listed above and you WILL do it!

[@toono21]

@@secretmission7607 so why has no one done it yet then? there certainly should be plenty of money in this market.. perhaps your wit is rather wasted here in the comment section.

[@secretmission7607]

@@toono21 There was no wit in my comment! As for why no one has done what I listed? The answer is because they have not yet realised that THIS is what needs to be done! All sorts of comparatively insignificant details, like progressive weighting of keyboard, half pedaling, even polyphony, are given much attention but not the things that really make the difference. (I'd rather play a digital with 8 sample layers per note and 16 note polyphony than 3 sample layers and 192 note polyphony...) WHY has no one realised what needs to be done? Well VERY fine pianists normally stick to playing acoustic pianos, and even if they do sometimes dabble on a digital they will feel its shortcomings but just not have the background to identify what these shortcomings really are. They'll just say ' it doesn't feel like the real thing'. Or 'it has a heavy action' (when really they are feeling local latency). Or 'I cannot voice chords accurately on this' ('voice' being used in the sense of bringing out particular notes in a chord), not realising that there are, say, only 3 different samples per note on their digital, meaning only 3 essential timbres are available (yes, amplitude and a little filter cutoff will also be affected by changes in velocity, but in the rough and tumble of real playing you need the timbre to change in the same gradual and complex way as would be found on a real piano would...). Engineers may play keyboards, but they won't be world class pianists, so they just won't feel the difference when they're designing their digital pianos.Actually, even great pianists will only usually ell the difference when they're using their instruments in real-world situations... I fall into a fairly unique category insofar as i have been a very sucessful professional pianist and keyboard player but am also very au fait with all aspects of music technology, have created multi sampled pianos etc. So it is clear to me what the issues really are. I have a nervous system minutely sensitive to latency, too, so can immediately feel the difference between, say, 2m and 12 ms. I hear every sample switch that occurs on a digital, too! So what needs to be done to make a digital as good as an acoustic? Well the usual stuff that manufacturers are already doing (nice feeling action, good quality samples) but also the following: 8 samples per note (at different velocities) + EVERY attention given to minimising latency (ie aggressively trimming beginnings of samples plus using fastest possible processers). Also, programming of keyboard scaling and damper response often needs to be better. People will of course come back with 'but no on can recognise latency of less than (pick a figure) ms'. Well (sigh)... I - and the VERY best musicians - CAN! Yes, it's true that many musicians will not perceive this consciously but I'd wager that on some level they are sensitive to such 'tiny' amounts of latency and ultimately that will find some expression as their 'prefering the feel of' one digital piano over another.

[@toono21]

@@secretmission7607 ok, thanks for your elaborate answer.. im certainly no expert but now it makes more sense.. actually i saw some video where some representative of some european high end electronic instrument manufacturer was saying that the recent developments in this field are making keyboards extremely sensitive and accurate so they can sound almost organic(whatever that might mean..) so i guess it is a thing even outside the piano world.. so perhaps the answer is there and once the technological advance will become apparent the big guys will need to catch up and some might get finally a satisfactory instrument)

[@straizys]

god... should really shameful.. so awkward

[@unebonnevie]

All these digital/hybrid pianos are advertised without filming the power cord plugged into the wall!!! I have a Yamaha C3, and I know if there is no electricity available, I still am able to play my piano. Why would anyone want to buy a piano with microchips in it, so that it sounds like a grand piano? Buy a grand piano! The ones with only strings and wood! Btw, people...A grand piano's key can repeatedly hit as soon as the key is back 1/2 way from the previous hit. Try that with a digital or upright piano! BUY A REAL PIANO FOR GOD'S SAKE! ALL THESE DIGITAL/HYBRID PIANOS ARE NOTHING BUT A BIG SALE PITCH!

[@constiffpiano2684]

unebonnevie Shut up

[@constiffpiano2684]

unebonnevie Well this piano is better than any upright or baby grand at least!

[@Assassunn]

such a naive comment wow how can it not go through your mind the fact that digital piano aren't made to be cheaper than acoustic piano, but they are meant to be playable whenever and wherever you want in any home. Is this so hard to understand that the vast majority of people cannot play freely or at all because of the neighbours or even because of family ? Is this unthinkable that a grand piano is way more expensive, has poor durability in non optimal conditions and takes A LOT of space in your home ?

[@Schmidthorst69]

So, than please: give me a new flat without any neighbours and with enough space! ;-)

[@beatrizverdasco]

@@Assassunn not to mention the fact that it needs constant tuning: you either become a piano technician yourself or dish out 100€ for the piano technician every 6 months or so (more or less depending on many factors). Acoustic pianos are a thing of beauty, but they ultimately belong in concert halls where they are really used to their full capacity AND where they have technicians at hand to constantly tweak them.