Yamaha AW2816 vs. AW4416, Plus WTH is the place of a standalone DAW in a PC DAW age??

[@alanbutterworth4219]

Hey Sweets, we used to talk on the Tascam forum many years ago. My AW4416 period was around 2009, after my AKAI DPS 24 stage, my Tascam SX1 / MX2424 stage. I had a few machines, one kitted out with ADAT cards and two Behringer ADA8000. This gave 24 analogue inputs to the board. Did a few shows with it. I still have the original Yamaha demo track somewhere. I'm now into the AKAI MPC Key61 with a Tascam Model 24 mixer. I also have a mega PC with Native Instruments sound libraries for orchestral stuff. The music has had to be put on hold this year as I try to complete 40ft solar catamaran. All the best, Al.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Greetings, Al! Nice to hear from you! And wow I didn’t realize you had such extensive experience with multiple standalone DAW setups…curious about your comparative experience between the DPS24 and AW4416…hope you are well!

[@fstudiosmusicandvideo7795]

Cory, as you know, I love this machine and prefer using it over a DAW. It just works, it sounds good, there’s no noticeable latency, and it sounds really good.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

100% agree, Brian…thanks!!

[@brianhintze6440]

Hello from Ohio. New subscriber. Very cool videos. The AW4416 is on my "Want List". It would be great to have something this powerful to get away from DAW's and mouse. I've had other multitrackers in the past, but always wanted the AW4416. Hopefully someday I can find one in my price range. Keep up the great work.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Hello and welcome! Thanks for the comments. Technically the AW4416 IS a DAW, just not personal computer-based. Which is why we both like it. What’s your price range?

[@eddieleonard6925]

Very informative. I'm a classic beatmaker with a nostalgia for machines made in the '90s and early '00s. I've used a korg d3200 and just got my hands on an akai dps24, but this 4416 looks fantastic for my type of music. Sample pads, 8 aux sends, adat? I'll have to keep an eye out for one of these. I have my own pres, looking for something to help with mixing and recording. Love this "lost" era of digital multitrack recorders. Cheers,

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I’ve studied the physical build and signal path/circuits of the AW4416 compared to the D3200, DPS24 and many others. There are always pros and cons, but every time I circle back and analyze the AW4416 wins. ADAT yes with a MY8-AT option card, which are readily available and relatively affordable. That’s one of the benefits of the AW4416; two option slots with many options for expanded I/O. What really turned me toward the AW 4416 compared to the DPS24 is the digital channel strip. The DPS24 EQ, for instance is 3-band and relatively limited, while the 02R-based AW4416 is 4-band and configurable. It’s just a much more powerful digital mixing engine. And having the same dynamics, EQ and delay processing on the 28 inputs (no dynamics on the two stereo rerun channels… it full processing in 24 input channels) AND 16 multitrack return channels….really powerful. I love the build of the DPS24…I like the analog signal path a bit better on the AKAI, as well as studio faculties, but from a real-world functionality standpoint, the AW is significantly more capable, scalable and capable. I have an AW4416 for sale right now, deep-cleaned, tested and with a new RTC chip and a full set of OEM manuals for $200

[@eddieleonard6925]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop I'm interested in your unit! The AW4416 sounds really unique.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

It is unique for several reasons. The one I was selling is already sold. But they are not hard to find on the used market.

[@eddieleonard6925]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop Easy to find, yes, but hard to find ones that are well taken care of & maintained. If you ever see any available or restore any, please let me know. I'd rather buy from a trusted source. For now, I'll keep learning my dps24. Thanks again!

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I have four currently; two designated for active operations, a third as a complete good condition backup, and the fourth is a parts donor/test mule. These things are amazing. Unit #4 is the nastiest-looking AW4416 I’ve ever seen…the fader panel is severely dented/deformed at the leading edge, like the entire unit was dropped from a significant height and landed on the edge of something. There are other bits broken on the case. It’s filthy, scraped, scratched and scuffed, and dented in other areas. But…everything works. I do keep my feelers out for good deals on AW4416s, especially ones needing some TLC and maybe a RTC chip replacement…I keep a stock of new, late manufacture DS12887+ parts with sockets to repair other’s units as well as rehab the occasional acquisition and turn back out into the world…usually do some deep cleaning, fader servicing and full diagnostics in the process. I can tear down an AW4416, replace the RTC chip and have it back together in a little over an hour. You’re welcome to contact me offline at the shop email address: [e-mail].

[@titanjake8640]

You have great taste. I dont care too much on the 'ease' of a computer based daw. I use it but my go to is one of these or Roland VS series. Great video

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Thank you!

[@byteme9718]

If you're going to buy either of these, buy a second. Even if you just keep it for spares it's peace of mind because parts are expensive and they're being broken up for spares. I don't have much experience with the 2816 but two 4416s linked together makes an awesome combination.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I currently have 4 AW4416s for various reasons, spares among them.

[@tigerjunge]

nice gear, got them both , too, used them for live gigs...i liked them very much, using the fader for Aux send...

[@madness8556]

I loved my Yamaha O3D with ADAT card that I used extensively in conjunction with an original blackface Alesis ADAT machine, later on, a Digidesign Digi 001 DAW. I was very close to buying an AW4416 when they were released in 2000, but I went for the Digi001 instead and never looked back.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Completely different animals, the AW4416 and Digi 001…

[@andrewrichardsuk]

I have the AW1600. Perfect for getting stuff down without having to turn on the pc, DAW and the rest of it, it sounds great, unfortunately no sidechain option for the on-board compressor. So i just export the tracks and mix externally ❤

[@Fezzler61]

Amen. As a home hobbyist recorder, I'm tired of the constant fees from DAWs and plug-ins. I found a near mint Roland VS-1824cd. I don't know if I can be productive with quality output but I am going to try. I have researched and yes, people found them complicated, but I enjoy learning the intricacies of equipment. Trying to find an affordable VS8F-2 or two effect boards. Wish me luck. What are some of the good DAWless channels on KZbin or places to share ideas? I'll start with original equipment, but slowly researching hard drive upgrades or hard drive-to-SD/CP Flash/SSD. Also, researching possibility of a SCSI port to digital memory card option as well. The two screens on the Yamaha is indeed a nice plus! Where do you source DALLAS clock chips? Last time I bought some for a vintage computer restoration all the ones sent to me were dead.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

First of all, using something like a Roland VS-1824CD does not make you DAW-less…the VS-1824CD is a DAW, it’s just not personal computer-based; it is a standalone DAW, but a DAW nonetheless. But obviously I agree there are many general distinctions between computer-based and standalone DAWs…for most they can’t fathom not having access to features that computer-based DAWs have the standalone units do not, and more others the standalone units have facets I discussed in the video the computer-based offerings can’t do the same way just because of the nature of the computer-based beast. I don’t know of any KZbin channels per se for standalone DAWs…I’m part of an online social media-based group that supports the Yamaha AW devices and that’s been really beneficial. For the Roland VS devices I’ve gotten some good help from the forums at VS-Planet (vsplanet.com) for my VSR-880 HDRs so that might be a good resource for you. For the VS8F-2 there are lots on sale on eBay. That’s where I got mine. The Dallas 12887 family of RTC ICs are readily available from a number of reputable online electronic component vendors like Mouser or Digikey…not hard to find and guaranteed genuine and of recent manufacture. I get all mine from Mouser for when I’m repairing AW4416s and AW2816s for clients wanting their failing RTC replaced.

[@Fezzler61]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop Thank you for your thoughtful response. I picked up the VS-1824 because I was familiar with Roland products. To be honest, learning more about Yamaha the last few days, the AW1600 may have been a better choice for my needs. Might be in my future,

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I had an AW1600 for a little while…nice compact machine and feature set, but the lack of motorized faders was a deal-breaker for me, and it also felt less intuitive than the AW2816 or AW4416, and there’s no expansion slot and very limited outputs. The feature set is significantly limited overall compared to even the AW2816. It it does have some advantages: USB connectivity and smaller size to name a couple.

[@Fezzler61]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop Again, thoughtful and informative response. I will research the AW2816. AW4416 looks very nice but may be more than I need and have space for.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Yes check out the AW2816. Let me know if you have any questions. I know the AW2816 and AW4416 extremely well. FWIW if you find you’re in the market for an AW2816 I have one in the shop right now going through a full detailing, RTC chip replacement and full fader service. It is in excellent condition, fully tested, and comes with original packaging and manuals. I’ll be putting it up on Reverb in a couple weeks or so.

[@TheSame92]

Oh my days, I did not realize this was uploaded 10 days ago until you said you're 22 years late. I am literally about to pick up the AW4416 today. I was trying to find some information of how possible it is to integrade this with ableton Live. I would love to map the faders to Live. If you have any tips, that'd be amazing!

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Hi! I don’t personally have experience with using the AW4416 for computer-based DAW control, but I think some have had success doing this. If you have a FaceBook account I HIGHLY recommend you join the AW4416 group…great user community, well administered, over 1,400 members…it is THE place to get help, support, and AW camaraderie. Here is some info I found regarding your question from past posts on the fb group: “…here is how to link with Studio One. Ableton should be similar provided it supports Mackie midi protocols and/or has midi learn function. m.facebook.com/groups/80055653632/permalink/10159669006203633/?mibextid=Nif5oz” “…I think I found a solution that works in Ableton for win. browse to appdata-Ableton to User remote Script. Create a folder: Yamaha AW4416... then copy the cubase midi file and the aw4416 xml file in the folder as shown in the picture. Then get the Yamaha AW4416 with the possibility of midi mapping. Have had the faders and pans mapped, but are not finished yet.” “Ableton supports MCU try the Cubase MIDI template.” “I second the cubase comment or it’s possible does the AW have Mackie emulation? I use it on the BCF2000 with FLstudio and I can control most of the standard FL Interface with it. I think cubase is similar I'm sure someone might know more, It's what I want to do with my AW I just haven't got round to trying it” “…think you can use it with FL Studio. the AW4416 xml file can be used in most music software, xml code is the dominant code for all programming languages. together with cubase midi file for aw4416 i think it will work.”

[@TheSame92]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop Man this is so kind of you. Really helpful stuff man, thank you so much. I will now have a good look of all that information and try to apply it. I got the unit today. The only flaw it has (for now) is that the black coating is likely rubbery and it go very sticky over the years. I will be looking if I can treat that in any way. Also, I notice that the faders sometimes get stuck and won't move unless I give them a slight push. I have never had a unit with motorized faders, and I am not sure if they have to be cleaned differently than the standard contact cleaner.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

The tacky fader panel is a super annoying reality of an AW4416. It’s the same “soft-touch” coating one can find in countless products. Unfortunately the coating de-synthesizes with age and becomes sticky/tacky. The only solution is to cover it, or remove it. There’s no treatment to re-synthesize the coating. If it is very sticky and fragile on yours it can be removed with isopropyl alcohol and some elbow grease…the worse off the condition the easier it comes off. If it is still early in the stages of breakdown it’s best to leave it alone vs trying to remove it because it takes much more effort to remove it and the screening/labeling on the panel can be comprised in the process. There’s a fella in Belgium (?) that developed a digital file that can be printed on self-adhesive printable vinyl that is a replacement for the screening. The idea is you remove the fader panel (an involved process), strip it to bare metal, carefully apply the label, and trim out all the holes; very labor-intensive but looks fantastic. The tacky fader panel, “low battery” issue with the RTC chip, and fader issues are the only areas of concern with the AW4416 at this point. I predict eventually we will see issues begin to crop up from failed surface-mount electrolytic capacitors. These last two items are not unique to the AW4416 or Yamaha products in general, but will be issues with any older device with flying faders and a majority of electronic device made from the 1990s onward. The RTC chip is readily available and costs around $25 shipped from Mouser with a socket. It takes somebody with advanced soldering skills to do the replacement, but I have a video in my channel showing in detail how to tear down the AW4416 in order to access the main system PCB where the RTC chip is mounted, which saves you a lot of money in shipping if you can’t do the solder job yourself and need to send it to somebody. The faders can still be found new, but the fader board has to be extracted, the old faders desoldered and new faders soldered in. Again, some advanced soldering skills are helpful here but my point is the parts are available and they are replaceable. In YOUR case though I suspect your faders need cleaning and exercising. You can start by pushing them all the way up, get a vacuum cleaner with hose attachment as well as some compressed air…start by sucking as much debris out as you can with faders up, then move them all down and do the same thing…then repeat the procedure but for each fader jet compressed air down into the fader slot while placing the vacuum hose to help pull out anything stirred up by the compressed air jet. Do it faders up and faders down each one. Now spray an appropriate cleaner/lube in there. I use DeoxIT F5 FaderLube. Don’t be shy. Get a bunch in there with the faders up, slide each fader down enough so you can finish each one with an additional jet of it at the top of each fader. Now go into the diagnostics program to to run a “fader aging” test which basically cycles all faders from end to end repeatedly until cancelled. This is to exercise the faders and let the FaderLube work. To get to the test, with the AW4416 powered down hold the HOME and UTILITY buttons down while powering the device on. Once you get the screen with the build date and OS version number and all that release the HOME and UTILITY buttons. You’re now at the diagnostics menu and you’ll see on the bottom right FADER AGING. Cursor down until you get to that menu item and hit ENTER. After a moment the faders will start cycling up and down. Let this run for a bit. Maybe 5-10 minutes. It should improve things. If a fader just won’t move for many cycles, give it a nudge. If it’s bad, faders will work for awhile then hang and need a nudge. After you’ve run it for a bit, hit CANCEL and turn the AW off. Tip the AW so it is up and resting on the front edge…like tip it up and lean it against a wall or something. Move all the faders a bit down from the top, jet compressed air at the top…we’re trying to move debris down to the bottom of the fader. Next move all faders all the way to the top and jet compressed are into each in a way to move debris to the bottom. Now wash more FaderLube in each spraying from top to bottom. Let it sit like that for a half hour or so. Best to have it sitting on a rag or something. It also helps to remove the fader knobs for all of this. After you let it sit power it back up into the diagnostics mode and do the fader aging again for 30-60 minutes. Shut it off. Let it sit over night. Run the fader aging again in the morning to see how things are. In most cases the above procedure should have things working well, though the caveat here is the true way to really clean the fader elements and wipers and lube the wiper carriage and belt pulleys is to remove the fader board, disassemble and clean and lube each fader. But the above procedure will usually greatly improve things.

[@lowandodor1150]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop Man, you truly deserve a heartfelt thank you so much for your detailed, in depth and caring replies! I have not opened the flight case with my AW4416 inside for a decade or more, i sure will though after sleeping for a few hours. Had an amazing time with this machine from 2000 - 2010 or so. Before it i had a Fostex 4 track which i loved so much too, had that from 1994 - 2000. Electric guitars, Moog, Piano and Fender Rhodes were my instruments....goood times, good times, so glad your video popped up in my recommendations, thanks again from Vienna!

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Hey that’s great. Thanks and you’re welcome!

[@waxprophetic]

still have my AW16G. this vid makes me want to dust it off and make something with it.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

I have the aw2816. I am thinking of digging it out. So sick of managing cpu, buffer not keeping up, subscription based software and poor generic plugins on both my pc and mac The editing on the 2816 is difficult, the number of tracks limited but, maybe it will just make me play better and pre plan the production. The bouncing options are limitless so you can mix down backing vocals without degradation . Sometimes you can get great results mixing stems as you go. As far as I remember the reverbs and delays use the same processors as the SPX90 rack modules. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

The other workaround for the track limitations is using the virtual tracks. You can load 14 virtual tracks, mix those to two tracks, switch the 14 tracks to a new layer and have 14 open tracks while still having the native tracks to the stereo mix you just made. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to when you mentioned bouncing, but the virtual tracks present a lot of flexibility/options/opportunities. One can do other things with virtual tracks like copy a track, apply compression, sum the processed track with the native track to another open virtual track, and use the mono sum in the main project…parallel compression that only uses one track in the project but you still have the original track and processed track sitting on virtual tracks if you need to make changes. Is this more cumbersome than having a dedicated multitrack machine and a larger format console with enough channels to do the parallel compression? Or being able to setup templates in a computer-based DAW or use parallel compression tools in the computer-based DAW? Maybe…but a large console can be cumbersome too…and you already noted some of the things that are frustrating or distracting for some relative to the computer-based DAW…managing the performance of a device not purpose-built for audio production…OS, driver and software updates and other instabilities…ongoing licensing and upgrade expenses, etc. I really like using hardware that is purpose-built for the job. It just works every time I turn it on, and it’s the same familiar tool set and interface every time. I also find the overly-broad bells and whistles found in most any computer-based DAWs distracting and detract from focusing on good performances, good setup and mic placement, and really becoming familiar with the tools. And the GUI is distracting as well from using my ears more than my eyes. I know that’s not an issue for most, but I learned multitracking processes before the digital age, so for me there’s just to much to keep track of visually. Something like the AW4416 and AW2816 have a lot of powerful mixing, routing and processing features…plenty to bring great results. As far as the effects engines on the AW4416, they are not based on the SPX90…that’s a 16-bit device. The AW4416 (and I believe the AW2816) effects set and algorithms aren’t a direct match, but most closely match the SPX900/990. The AW2400 effects are based off the SPX2000.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop Thanks for the response and the clarification on the FX. I remember now about virtual tracks. Yes, that is what I mean't by bouncing. It was 20 years (wow) ago when I made a cd of my songs. I remember being pretty happy with the results. I just wish I had gotten somebody else master it. I did it all in house in the 2816. I also remember that I never commited the keyboards to hard disk until the final mix. I had an old Atari ST synced to the Yamaha through the midi. The keys performances were just recorded with midi up to that point, so I could futz with the keys sounds and experiment with different patche to get them to sit in the mix as best as possible. I had six or seven mics on the drums and recorded them all to a click to enable the midi sync with the Atari. A couple of guitar tracks, bass, vocals. I did have a couple of nice pre amps that I used for some of the mics. I fired it up around 6 years ago and it still worked. I used it for portable tracking of some bass parts that I exported as waves on a cd. Is there an easier way to import/export audio into the 2816 rather than using the cd method? I remember loading in separate audio files on CDs and it was very time consuming. Obviously, there is no usb/FireWire compatibility. What kind of digital inputs does it use? Unfortunately the machine does not live with me. The next time I visit my Mum's house I'm going to dig it out.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I don’t know if you’re on social medial at all, specifically fb, but there is a robust AW group there simply called AW4416 Group; supports the AW4416, AW2816, AW16G, AW1600 and AW2400 as well. There are over 1,400 members…great helpful and resourceful community. One of the members developed a PC software interface called AWMiner. It comes in different versions with different feature sets and is available for Mac and PC…you pull the drive out of your AW, connect it to your PC using a 2.5” IDE to USB adapter, launch AWMiner, load the AW drive into the application and you can backup, restore, transfer data, import/export wav files with lightning speed compared to using the optical drive. benebadman.bandcamp.com/merch/awminer-gold-software-licence The developer Ben Badman is incredibly helpful and keeps the software up-to-date based on community feedback. No AW2816/4416 owner should be without it. It’s a little more cumbersome on a AW2816 to access the drive compared to the AW4416, but it’s still a huge time saver over the optical drive.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop wow, thanks for this info. 👍

[@MrSeeker42]

Finally, a man after my own heart! Brother, I am in complete accord with your recording philosophy. I’m a former Akai DPS24 (beige) owner here ( I couldn’t bring it back to the USA from overseas due to post-2019 shipping costs) so I recently acquired the AW4416 for an extremely reasonable price and I need to have a tech change the time-clock battery which is running low, which all AW4416 owners have to deal with eventually. Is there a possible way I can use the AW4416 as an Audio Interface with my iPhone? I tend to do song-sketches on GarageBand, (an app on my iPhone) but sometimes these sketches turn out better than expected and I’m trying to figure out a way where I can record on the AW4416 singer-songwriter style with multiple mics recording simultaneously my guitar and vocals and eventually figure out a way to transport the tracks onto GarageBand and then eventually back into the 4416 in order to complete/polish the songs to my liking. Ears not eyes, yes! Please remind me if the 4416 also allows you to speed up and slow down the song tracks during choruses and verses? My Akai was able to do this and used something akin to “vari-speed”, which would slow down or speed up the tracks mid-song and can take songs to another level entirely. GarageBand is very limited, but it’s great for quick song-sketches and initial ideas. I want to be able to traffic in both systems interchangeably.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Greetings! You cannot directly interface the AW4416 with your iPhone except for using the analog output of the iPhone and connecting that to a pair of analog inputs on the AW4416. If your goal is to digitally transfer tracks between the AW and your iPhone you should get a software application called AWMiner. It is available for Mac and Windows based PCs. If you can get your tracks from GarageBand onto a PC you can connect the HDD from the AW to the PC and import/export tracks, song data, execute full drive backup and restore functions, etc. As far as “varispeed” functionality, the AW is limited. You can globally speed up or slow down an entire song much like a pitch control on a tape machine, but the changes cannot be tied to a tempo map or otherwise automated…go to SETUP and select the D. IN tab…in the lower left pane is the VARI function where you can adjust the sampling frequency within a range of -5.97% to +6.00% from the selected sampling frequency. I’m not sure if you can increase the sampling frequency if you already have it set to 48kHz. But, again, this is global and cannot be automated and will affect pitch. There is pitch correction functionality within the track editor, but it is intended for tweaking the pitch of a note here and there without changing the speed. The processing is slow and there are artifacts (it’s not a sophisticated pitch correction utility), so it’s not really suitable for pitch-shifting an entire song. As far as the RTC chip and low or depleted battery, if you can tear down your AW and remove the main system board assembly (I have detailed video on how to do this on my channel), you can ship it to me for much cheaper and less risk than the entire AW, and I can replace the RTC with a socket and a new genuine late manufacture part for a relatively reasonable cost ($75 parts and labor). You can email me at [e-mail] for details.

[@MrSeeker42]

@@SweetbeatsTechStopthanks for the good advice. I will look into it. As regards “varispeed” I really meant that the song tempo speeds up or slows down WITHOUT affecting the pitch. Know what I mean?

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I did know what you meant. My point in sharing what tools are onboard the AW4416 was, I suppose, a long way of saying it doesn’t do what you want. You’re looking for a time-stretch/compression utility and that’s not part of the AW4416’s tools and utilities.

[@MrSeeker42]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop are you sure? The Akai simply allowed me to speed up the song during the choruses from let’s say 60bpm (verses) to 63bpm during the choruses. By the end of the song it was 68bpm. But not only did the tempo increase for drum tracks but also for the other instruments without them changing pitch at all. It was more like tempo mapping than anything else. We may be talking past each other because I’m trying to articulate, but poorly. This is a quote from the AKAI DPS24 quick guide that explains it better: “Changing Tempo mid song / Metronome Question: I've got a song where I need to change tempo and back a couple of times. In other words, the verses are at 98 BPM and the refrain at 104 BPM. The question is: Can I have a recording where the metronome changes on sections while I record? Answer: You can change Tempo / Time Sig at the beginning of each bar: While in the TEMPO MAP page, locate to the bar where you want to make a change and press F5 or F6 to insert a new Tempo or Time Sig change). You can assign the Metronome to an input channel and use the Mute automation to switch it on/off.” Would the AW4416 be able to do something similar to the AKAI?

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

The AW4416 has temp mapping and allows for programming of the tempo map; changes to tempo, time signature and all that. I don’t believe modifications to the tempo map will then change tracks already recorded to the HDD. You could look in the reference guide and operation guide in the sections related to the tempo map and likely get a better answer than what I can give you since I don’t use any of those features. Changes to the tempo map, if synchronizing with external MIDI devices, will affect changes there…change the tempo of your MIDI instruments or externally synced MIDI tracks.

[@mossomstylz]

Hi, can you continue to record and operate these machines with a dead internal battery? Great video

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Yes, as far as we know at this point there is no loss in functionality. You have the annoying “LOW BATTERY” nag, which for some is truly an annoyance since it obscures the tab names on screen, and eventually you have to reset the clock every time you power the AW. Files are time-stamped and once the battery is depleted, and this can fluctuate for some time, the time will not be retained when you power down and you’ll have to reset it every time you power up. So far these are the only consistently verifies issues with a depleted RTC chip battery

[@mossomstylz]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop thanks

[@Pod-e4m]

Yamaha nailed it with the AW2400, I have one and use it everyday.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I’m glad the AW2400 works well for you. I think it’s a good product for sure, but there are plenty, however, myself included, that would disagree with you. There are a number of significant differences between the AW4416 and AW2400 that, for many, and again myself included, maintain the AW4416 as Yamaha’s best standalone DAW ever. None of the following points may apply to you, your workflow or setup, but they do mine. It’s important to keep in mind though the AW2400 was never meant to be a successor per se to the AW4416, but rather sort of a hybrid replacement for both the AW2816 and AW4416, generally sitting in between the two feature-wise, with a couple important features not found on either predecessor such as the long-throw faders and USB connectivity. That being said, here’s why I prefer the AW4416 over the AW2400: I love the 100mm faders on AW2400, but the lower number of faders (13 vs 17), significantly lower simultaneous record and playback track count at 24-bit (8 simultaneous record and 12 simultaneous playback on the AW2400 vs. 16 and 16 on the AW4416) are big detriments. The AW2400 has only one option card slot vs. 2 on the AW4416. I do understand the single AW2400 option card slot is 16-channel capable vs. the maximum 8-channels per option card slot on the AW4416, but two slots affords greater flexibility with those 16 channels on the AW4416; mix and match additional inputs and/or outputs, protocols, etc…is there a 16 channel mini YGDAI card that has both inputs and outputs? I might be wrong but I don’t think so. You’re stuck with maximum 16 inputs only, or 16 outputs on the AW2400. And what if you want to use a Waves card…that has only 8 Lightpipe channel I/O, so you put that in your one slot on the AW2400 and you’re done outside of the onboard analog I/O. It simply limits options and flexibility. And speaking of input channels the AW4416 offers significantly greater flexibility with 28 patchable source channels from the outside world vs. 16 on the AW2400. HDD access…I don’t like that the HDD access is via a panel on underside on the AW2400 vs. plugin caddy on the backplane of the AW4416. I realize easy drive access is less necessary on the AW2400 because of the USB connectivity (more on that below), but I like the access arrangement better on the AW4416 regardless. I’m sure I’m in an extreme minority here on this next related point, but because the storage media is on a plugin caddy on the AW4416, and because all of the audio data and scene and automix data is stored on that drive, if there are AW4416s needed in two locations you don’t have to disconnect and lug the whole AW4416 back and forth. They’re so affordable anymore…get two and just take the drive caddy back and forth. It may sound silly but my setup will ultimately have a separate drum booth at the opposite end of the building from the control room. I can have one AW4416 in the control room and another in the drum booth all hooked up semi-permanently with patch scenes for each and just take the drive caddy back and forth and be able to self-engineer in each spot. Obscure I know, but the AW4416 makes it way easier to do this vs. the AW2400. And you can get 3-4 AW4416s for the price of one AW2400. AUX buss fader control…the AW2400 has a fader layer for the AUX masters which is a plus, but I love how the AW4416 has sub-layers to the fader pages for each AUX send on each mixer channel allowing each send for each mixer channel to be controlled by the faders. This seems to be pretty unique and a real plus for the AW4416. Sure you still have screen access to those controls on the AW2400, but for those who prefer mixing on the fly and doing creative things with per-channel AUX sends (like in dub style music for instance) vs. using automix, the AW4416 allows one to do things you just can’t do on an AW2400. Dedicated hardware metering…the AW2400 has a pair of LED bar graph meters, but that’s no comparison to the FL meter panel on the AW4416 displaying a multitude of information such as time code, sync status, scene number, and multitrack and master track status and individual meters for each. Footprint…I was surprised by this…I expected with the more limited features and control surface topology the AW2400 would have a smaller footprint…it’s actually a little bigger than the AW4416. Certainly the long-throw faders on the AW2400 contribute to that, but, again, there are only 13 of them vs. 17 on the AW4416, and the longer throw doesn’t give you any greater control resolution. So in my mind, in the end, what the AW2400 has going for it is the USB connectivity, but I can tell you with the relative ease of accessing the HDD on the AW4416 (via the plugin drive caddy), a USB drive adapter and Ben Badman’s free-to-extremely-affordable (even for the top-of-the-line version) AW Miner software available for multiple operating system platforms, this difference is almost a moot point. The other thing I like about the AW2400 is the SELECTED CHANNEL encoder section with the sort of matrix approach to what the encoders do depending on the active screen. It appears to be pretty intuitive and is definitely a step up compared to the AW4416s pan and EQ only encoder section. And yes the AW2400 can do 16 track simultaneous record and 24 track simultaneous playback, but at 16-bit. That is just simply not practical, at least not for me. I would never track at 16 bits unless it was for a demo project, and if so I doubt I’d be setting up 24 tracks or need to do that simultaneously. I suppose it’s nice to have the option, but I imagine I would use it begrudgingly. So for me there is really only one distinct feature of the AW2400 that stands out compared to the AW4416 for which there are no mitigating factors and that’s the SELECTED CHANNEL encoder array. All the rest either wash out or for most of them the AW4416 has the distinct advantage…so many things about the AW2400 present as a downgrade compared to the AW4416 as far as I’m concerned. Again, I realize the AW2400 is not a direct successor to the AW4416, but I’d never switch to an AW2400 or consider it Yamaha’s ultimate standalone DAW. Lastly I see the current market price as a clincher…yes the AW2400 is a later generation device and therefore newer, but considering the downgrades in the feature set I don’t see how that justifies the AW2400’s current market value at, again, about 3-4x the AW4416. This just seems like a no-brainer to me. AW4416 wins.

[@byteme9718]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop BOOM!

[@videos7959]

I still use my 4416 to this day, knock on wood. It has a lot of ability.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Agreed! Biggest issues are the RTC chip battery depletion (though there are relatively easy solutions, and the issues caused by the battery failure are no more than inconveniences), and fader issues (but brand new faders can be purchased for a reasonable cost). Eventually the surface-mount electrolytic caps will be an issue, but this too isn’t an insurmountable problem.

[@CrisBlyth]

ooh just my thing :)

[@hyperbolicchamber661]

I just came into the ownership of a DAW 4416 and I’m so lost

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Do you have the manuals? There are also lots of resources online. You can even watch the tutorial VHS tape on KZbin. If you’re on FaceBook there is a really fantastic AW4416 user group as well.

[@frankrandazzo56]

I am having a problem with connecting the cpu on my 2816. Can you repair or work out this connection? Thanks Frank

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Hi. Can you clarify what you mean? There are many processing units in the AW2816, and none of them feature any direct connections. Do you mean you conducted the onboard diagnostics testing and there was a failure of some sort? Or is there a problem with one of the internal interconnecting cables? A little more detail will maybe help me understand what the problem is you are experiencing.

[@frankrandazzo56]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop I am not a tech guy at all. When I turn it on it poers up and reads CPU not connected.

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Okay. Well…that can mean one of three things, either 1. There is a damaged, disconnected or displaced interconnections internally, or 2. failure of one or more components associated with processing on one or more printed circuit boards internally, or 3. one or more failed integrated circuits including processing units on one or more printed circuit boards internally. Sometimes people ask me questions like this this but withhold sharing something they did or something that happened out of their control to their device. Is there any additional information you can share about something that happened to your AW2816? Sharing this information can significantly help when it comes to offering advice. Did you have it powered up or plugged in to power during an electrical storm? And fluid infiltration or water damage or other trauma like impact from another object or was it dropped? And am I correct in assuming you haven’t disassembled it in any way for any reason, correct?

[@alxd5068]

i own the beautiful aw2400 workstation, and i just feel bad that using it is not really an option

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

Why not?

[@alxd5068]

@@SweetbeatsTechStop computer DAW… mostly, and space… and trying to figure a way to integrate it in the chain that won’t cause to just be an accessory. so it’s sitting in its case in the back of a closet… even tried to sell it at one point

[@SweetbeatsTechStop]

I think you’re thinking of this the wrong way…if the computer-based DAW is working for you, just use that. If you tried to sell the AW2400 in the past and it didn’t work out, try lowering the price. I mean, it’s just depreciating there in the closet. Let go of trying to figure out how to integrate it. It was designed as and intended to be a self-contained standalone unit. Either ditch the computer-based DAW and use the AW or let it go. That’s my opinion. You do have options.