Tarpit Ideas: The Sequel

[@chapterme]

Chapters (Powered by ChapterMe) - 00:00 - Intro: Discussing tarpit ideas with users 00:29 - Tarpit 2.0: Real Definition 02:47 - Key Factors: Tarpit ideas are insanely attractive 04:18 - Technology & Historical Factor 05:18 - X for Y 06:16 - Current Technology only solve Currently Problems 06:54 - Artificial Intelligence: Funding Companies Post LLM World 08:48 - Changing Behavior: Flavors of Tarpits 10:09 - Arbitrage: Fast money, Wall Street influence, and startup success 11:14 - Wall Street bets inspired startup ideas 12:40 - Takeaway: Too Good To Be True 13:40 - Outro

[@eachlabs]

Summary by Each Key Concepts: - Tarpit ideas: Seem attractive but consistently fail despite multiple attempts. - Often receive initial praise but have inherent flaws that lead to failure. - Many people try these ideas, but nothing significant changes to alter the outcome. Technology & Historical Factor: - New technology can sometimes turn previous tarpit ideas into viable ones. - Founders should acknowledge past failures and explain how new tech changes the game. Common Patterns: - "X for Y" phenomenon: Common startup idea pattern that needs thorough validation. - Utopian ideas: Beliefs about changing human behavior often lead to failure. - Arbitrage opportunities: Ideas promising quick riches are often unsustainable. Takeaway: - Tarpit ideas list evolves with technology and market changes. - Founders should be skeptical of ideas that seem too good to be true and validate them with real users.

[@george_davituri]

yep

[@litical3719]

Great Summary

[@PhilipSportel]

clarity is lacking here: - "X for Y" phenomenon: Common startup idea pattern that needs thorough validation.

[@bhushankshire2854]

Wow!!! Wonderful summary. You saved my time

[@TheRealMVP1234]

I’m working on an airline for penguins so they can finally fly. Is this a tarpit idea ? 🐧

[@anzilcutzz3148]

I tried this few years back, didn't work for me but I think you should try too

[@octavioavila6548]

Have you tried jetpacks ?

[@alexander_chelombitko]

no, that's great idea, i'm ready to invest when you have 100k revenue

[@RadinSingh]

I want an airplane for 100k from you

[@Sanitiser254]

What’s the mvp like

[@zoellazayce6796]

Hey YC, I noticed you mistakenly rejected my YC application. Just wanted to let you know ☺

[@AdityaAVG]

Nice one

[@Alena_Flora]

Mine too 👍

[@nijithebuji]

We got rejected too but end up getting acquired by Google within 2 years of registering the company. So, YC is not the end of story. They do make mistakes 😅

[@soaib5697]

What was it about??

[@amira6707]

YC's are just Idea generator's. Period.

[@jonloi3794]

You can feel the amount of combined experience through the screen from the content. These guys have gone through ALOT ALOT of proposals, and funded alot of whacky stuff

[@JamesJansson]

I'm pretty sure I started a tarpit startup: Micropayments for content. Everyone SAYS they love the idea. We got investment, we got customers (including big ones). There were plenty of previous attempts at it (including multiple companies with extremely similar names). It is a REALLY hard problem. Paywalling existing websites is technically hard. We had a Wordpress plugin, but other Wordpress plugins suck so they break everything. Getting to scale so that people are already signed up is hard. Dealing with media companies is ANNOYING (it's a lot more coagulated megacorporations than you realise) and it's an all or nothing deal.

[@joe.invest]

so how is it going now?

[@JamesJansson]

@@joe.invest Stopped doing micropayments years ago.

[@madalinabuzau1445]

Hi James! Really useful to read this. Are u still working on it? I was also thinking about micropayments but for SaaS platforms. Let me know if you want to chat about this

[@JamesJansson]

@@joe.invest stopped focusing on it a few years ago

[@JamesJansson]

@@madalinabuzau1445 Nah I'm not working on it these days. If you want micropayments for SaaS, Stripe does 99% of what you want.

[@Palmtreeshinobi]

I’m working on a copilot for dinosaurs to avoid tarpits

[@ycombinator]

Ship it.

[@VishalBolarum]

I agree! My brother & I run a SaaS for Turkish manufacturers and it's doing well. But we've also had a lot of failed startups. From my experience, DON'T re-invent the wheel. Find products that are already making money & do it better. Steve Jobs wasn't the first to create touchscreens. Elon wasn't the first to create electric cars. Zuckerberg wasn't the first to create a social media platform. Amazon wasn't the first ecommerce delivery service. You fall into a tarpits when you're trying to re-invent human needs / modify human behaviour. As a small company, you're not going to this. E.g. Uber for dogs is terrible idea. Focus on making existing products SIGNIFICANTLY better & you'll be eye-wateringly rich. The journey will also be TOUGH so stick in there.

[@alexsyeo]

I see new Dalton & Michael video, I click. Simple.

[@swapnilchand338]

i am a simple man.*

[@alexsyeo]

@@swapnilchand338 Nah I'm not a simple man though

[@swapnilchand338]

@@alexsyeo lol

[@jeffheiner]

Growing up in LA you get the La Brea tar pit experience as a grade schooler on a bus. I suggest everyone go down there, and get the tar pit experience. See why you dont want to drink from the water. also see the movie miracle mile. Its something physical you have to experience. then do something cool, like go across the street to LACMA and see some cool art, or go to the science museum and walk under the space shuttle.

[@AhmadAdelHabib]

I HATED part 1 because I watched it half way to that beautiful water and had just passed the Point of no return . I drank a bit bring that beautiful pond before i got sucked dry before pivoting😂

[@stephaneessomba9441]

Watching you from Cameroon, it's always a great pleasure to watch your video 😊😊😊😊

[@James-mk8jp]

Definition of tarpit doesn't require that many others have tried it. A tarpit is just an attractive trap. Like a venus fly trap.

[@nidhishanbhag2975]

Would love to have you guys publish a list of Tarpit ideas as a PSA.

[@amira6707]

Don't do it! This person is trying to bait people into being idea generator's!

[@Therealbrez]

@@amira6707 Isn't an idea generator almost useless?

[@joshmontoya]

6:56 Michael I'm not sure how this example demonstrates how new tech (in this case GenAI) is now making previously unviable ideas more viable? Is there a palpable/profitable demand for computer generated podcast content? Or a problem this is actually solving? Couldn't someone have just typed up a summary of a research paper or a scripted topic and had good text-to-voice software make it sound like a podcast 5 years ago? Personally I feel like most people loyally listen to podcasts more for the host & guest (human) personalities/humor/opinions/etc. I wish you guys would've used this topic to share your perspectives on how GenAI-centric startups right now may actually have parallels to tarpit pitfalls. As someone who is actually working with GenAI tech, I'm feeling more and more every day that the "AI is the hammer and everything is a nail" mentality is still running rampant in businesses, but for many use cases, the jury is still out on whether the revenue or productivity gains are anywhere near the costs. 🤔

[@sykologica]

There is infinite demand for entertaining content, and content makes money on advertising based websites. Imagine Mr beast type videos that didn't need any funding because they aren't even real.

[@joaquinduran5429]

I have an idea of an app for discovering tarpit ideas

[@george_davituri]

ship it

[@199X-r3w]

How about an app that tells you whether your idea is a tarpit idea. Then I can use it on itself.

[@YVRGunny]

You joke but I’m actually trying to find a list of tarpit ideas that is constantly up to date with sample of failed business.

[@iamvalenci4]

A copilot for startup ideas

[@harrylee27]

Yep, an app for coordinating with friends for hangout is a tarpit idea, I did it, it doesn’t seem would work out. It’s an iOS app called WhiMeet, will just keep the lights on for fun. 🙃

[@johnmacbride900]

Yeah, seems like an idea that could be really huge, if it worked. I checked out your site, the text was pretty generic; I could only find out what the app did by reading some of the terms of use. I was hoping it would be more like a scheduler, but still cool. I really would like to have that app. Good luck with it!

[@harrylee27]

​@@johnmacbride900 Thank you for searching for it and even read some of the terms of use. You're very supportive of people's attempts! If you're using iPhone, the app actually can be found in App Store using keyword WhiMeet. Like Michael and Dalton mentioned in the episode, it is really hard to change people's behavior if it is already formed and saturated. People 1) just stick to Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, WeChat etc. for connecting with Friends; 2) people tends not to acquire new friends, even after meeting each other, unless they clicked which is very rare; 3) people tends not to meet with good friends that frequently, and like to keep their schedule as secret to most friends; 4) people's relationships and dynamics are super complicated, delicate and fragile. Those points are obvious to think of after a fact, but you always think nothing is impossible when starting the idea.

[@bahroum69]

Well, Zenly executed pretty well on a variation of this idea and got acquired for 250m usd by Snap.

[@prabhatsharma4]

A tarpit idea can become a decent idea all of a sudden if there is demand on the consumer side. Few years ago(in 2015) I wanted to start a company that conducts mock interviews for people looking to prepare(India). I saw that a lot of people have earlier started such companies, some were B2B (conduct screening interviews for other companies) and some were B2C. None of them were making much money, some got shutdown. But, a lot of pay after placement kind of edtech startups came in 2020, heavily funded, They needed mock interviews for their students so that they can get them placed asap. And then these mock interview prep companies started making decent money. Same is the case with mental health startups in India or other countries where the consumers are not interested in paying for a solution, either group therapy or therapy or medications to manage their issues.

[@lipidsled]

I think this video is more confusing than helpful because a lot of great starts here in India have precisely attempted to change user behavior and succeeded or played on an early regulatory inflection / arbitrage... This makes it more confusing. You need to do tarpit idea 3.0 now asap!

[@PhilipSportel]

Bread Alert! A discovery app that lets you know where the freshest bread is at all times, in your house and in local bakeries. Push notifications when a new loaf drops.

[@seraphcms2511]

Isn't one of the main characteristics of tarpit ideas that they require relatively little innovation. i.e. food discovery or X for Y .......... the idea is right on the surface and has no real differentation.

[@evanlimmusic]

On the bright side, 50 thousand years later, your tarpit idea startup will benefit another species.

[@grammar_shark]

I'm working on a legal defense strategy co-pilot for presidential candidates and ex-presidents. Tarpit idea?

[@Secretlyanothername]

An example of a tarpit idea is a comments service for gaming streamers, which has lost money every single year it has existed

[@WaqasMasood-w3g]

Dalton and Michael, what are your thoughts about the future of coding?

[@hustlin_heev]

AI travel companion itinerary maker - still Tarpit ??

[@PerezCombatInc]

Can you go through a list of examples of companies you funded that ended being up tar pits and the reason why they became a tarp it ,,, or an example of the basic “same idea” you get thousands of times. I just blew my wad 🎉😂

[@marionogueiraramos9488]

still sounds as jaded as the first time... everything is a tarpit idea until it isn't... like Airbnb... actually, like Google or Facebook (look at the history of the segment in each case)

[@Hans-Henrik]

Not as entertaining as the first video on tarpit ideas...and to be more precise - I would recommend to ask Chat GPT for a better definition: A "tarpit idea" refers to a concept or proposal that initially seems promising or straightforward but quickly becomes complicated, time-consuming, and difficult to manage. It's akin to a tar pit, where once something enters, it gets stuck and struggles to get out. In intellectual or project contexts, tarpit ideas are those that trap resources, time, and energy, often leading to minimal productive outcomes despite significant investment. These ideas can bog down progress and distract from more feasible and efficient solutions.

[@AriseReaders]

Great business school ❤

[@harrytherovar]

Haha. With this thought process, next step for these guys will be to realize funding a startup is a tarpit idea and they should find new profession :))

[@sineadward5225]

Dalton for President!

[@joshmontoya]

Oh and also, can you tell me if my startup idea is a tarpit? I'm making a copilot for letting you know when it's time to buy printer ink 😂

[@netsurfer256]

Full send it bro. Before hp/canon do, or make it so good they buy it off your hands. There's limited time offer of "power to the people" on these ones before we're all annotating for big tech.

[@paulcalebayibaemiotokolo]

I have an idea: ✨Co-pilot for co-pilot✨

[@knownaschaz]

Guilty in hindsight for my S 24 app

[@alexsyeo]

I need a copilot for my copilot.

[@JoshvsData]

I need a copilot for my copilot’s copilot.

[@Marco-wz8xw]

Hahahaha

[@hritikpawar2876]

Is a platform for AI-generated art a tarpit idea?

[@IVaN4B69]

Have you talked to any users?

[@hritikpawar2876]

@@IVaN4B69 I actually built a prototype but later found that my competitors would be KZbin, Meta, and Twitter so I pivoted the idea

[@swapnilchand338]

@@hritikpawar2876 pivotted to?

[@GregIsenberg]

This is cool. I chat about tarpit ideas and profitable ideas on my channel too. Cool to see more people talking about ideas (especially YC). Thanks

[@purawalker2537]

My tarpit idea was an app or site to find the 2 for 1s in town for dining out. Lol

[@joaquinduran5429]

There’s a pretty successful similar app in Europe it’s called Neotaste

[@cherubin7th]

Tarpits are good for education. You can look at all this fossils who failed.

[@swapnilchand338]

its a good practice run, but thats why mvp and getting paying users matters. ask people for money and then you can see if its tarpit or not

[@tusharbhatnagar8143]

Another aspect would be that these unrealistic tarpit ideas have an impactful result. Tesla, Neuralink, OpenAI etc all were tarpits at a point. So its too subjective. Its a matter of perception. Not saying they are wrong. Its simply hypocritical to negate ideas or simply suggest they are tarpits based on your assumption. These guys themselves say with time, beliefs around tarpits change so techically there is nothing correct or anything wrong with anything. It is just the rght thing at the right time and place.

[@Secretlyanothername]

Things like Doordash would be the ultimate. Who doesn't like online food delivery???

[@benditovicentecosta1710]

My copilot was for driving!

[@ianglenn2821]

My idea is to solve tenant-landlord problems at the scale of mid-sized rental companies that have approximately a few hundred tenants. My company will help these mid-sized landlord groups register as a REIT and issue shares, which they will then reward to tenants in exchange for on-time rental payment. Tenants are usually managed only by negative reinforcement, if they damage the property, they lose their security deposit, and that's it. But with shares of ownership, even a tiny fraction, the tenant will get to experience the ownership incentive, and this will lead to reduced damages, increased on-time payments, and help meet the requirement of having 100 different shareholders for the tax-advantages of the REIT structure. Anybody want to steal this idea or work with me on this? Or is this a tar-pit idea?

[@PhilipSportel]

Who's going to give up an ownership share in an asset? The math of figuring out what fractional amount of ownership is worth the fractional improvement to the property is one thing, but what you're proposing divorces the incentive (shares for rent) from the intended outcome (better-maintained property), so you'll get tenants paying on time, but not maintaining. Also, people aren't just forgetting to pay rent. If they don't pay on time, it's because they don't have money, so you're not modifying that behaviour either. So owners give up shares for effectively nothing.

[@DoNotFlyINsideOUT]

oops i literally pitched a tarpit idea fml

[@alexanderatalla3537]

What about Beli…?

[@hfkfkffk]

They need to go to the labrea tarpits. It wasn’t the time of dinosaurs.

[@robert75019]

11:55 i couldn’t stop laughing too 😂😂😂😂😂 investment advisory 😂😂😂😂😅

[@Bso3350]

English grammar police here: tarpit is not an adjective.

[@xilluminati]

f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ no… early adopter

[@Paolo040]

Must say that this video was too conversational for me with too little structure. The problem why friends of mine are confused about tarpit ideas is because it's unclear how to identify them. This video was more of a "heres another vague definition and lets add a bunch of qualifying factors to it for 10 min"

[@alhaythum]

Timing...

[@n3uropapi]

Tricky… ideas that didn’t work aren’t always because the idea itself sucked… it was the execution. MySpace was king and people first saw Facebook as an uglier simplistic version of MySpace - and yet, where is MySpace now.

[@tylerdurden2832]

I needed this badly!

[@redricochet]

Half of every episode is making fun of their founders 😂

[@Secretlyanothername]

It makes sure that they're the smartest guys in the room

[@harrylandis1788]

Just me or do these guys come off as condescending? All they did was say the obvious and laugh at / mock the common pitfalls of first time founders… off putting if you ask me

[@abhayagarwal229]

If this feels condescending then try raising money, hiring, hearing user feedback, or literally anything where you have to put yourself out there.

[@harrylandis1788]

@@abhayagarwal229 what do you mean? Are those processes condescending to a greater degree?

[@abhayagarwal229]

@@harrylandis1788 you gain some really thick skin around people disparaging your ideas

[@grammar_shark]

@@harrylandis1788 That's what he means.

[@octavioavila6548]

Just you. I love these guys

[@shyguymercedesbenz5845]

your mam

[@SelmanF-j4w]

I find videos so helpful but Michael’s laughing so frequently and so annoying. It’s like watching Tom cruise laughs in his movies It’s like you wake up at midnight and hear tick ticks of clock or drop of water in drain. Anybody has same problem

[@Secretlyanothername]

They're funny, extremely smart, and always right. What do you mean?

[@vaibhavgeek]

LOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@sundayseance]

you guys are among the least cool guys I have seen. it is like silicon valley scene about Jared

[@chrisheijdens1864]

This video is *almost* as useless and empty as their last video. What a waste of literally everyone's time.

[@ajvenix4079]

I got nothing useful out of your awful sense of humor. please be more serious.