Yes…There Are Issues | Miraculous Ladybug Season 5 Finale

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

I now know that it is Amelie and not Emilie. Not because canon told us, but because the writers said via social media. ...sigh

[@gabrielgouveiasilva7318]

No, it s her ,the idiot said with some words in a video before the reset the universe, in the theory of serie Emilie is not dead,just sleeping,i knoe that is suck but it is,probably it s emillie😮

[@gabrielgouveiasilva7318]

He said she would not revive, but she really didnt died, and he said that before the reset she didn't revive because the reset didnt happend😢, the creator is a idiot, A Man on youtube said that, and the creator is 🤪.

[@mathyw2848]

We need a reboot of this show, NOW!!! But without Thomas Astruck getting involve.

[@JeffUni]

@ObjectnimationsOSCthe writing in season 6 better be good. I also heard that the characters are getting new outfits.

[@aziahangac1677]

YES WE SHOULD MAKE A FANFIC,A CROSSOVER FANFIC

[@aziahangac1677]

​@ObjectnimationsOSC:)

[@Bezaliel13]

@ObjectnimationsOSC Wait, did we already get a reboot with the movie?

[@Bezaliel13]

@@JeffUni Well, if Asstruc is not going to be involved.

[@elinasakura]

Answer: No Cat Noir. Just Ladybug and superheroes that were really just guest stars🎬

[@Howaboutyes11]

😭

[@princeali1932]

Then what good is this show to me ?

[@karentorresalfaro3371]

@@princeali1932 it is not good for you, the fact that you still watch the show without shutting down your brain is a proof that you are a little bit of a masochist 🤣😂😅

[@Thehonoredone110]

I hate ladybug because she wastes the story and the agreast arc Adrien was the best

[@never_zherin]

I already got my smooth brain from Gabriel Ggreste a long time ago

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

If they wanted to make Gabriel a really scary and evil villain but still redeemable then they should have made the butterfly miraculous also damaged and affected his mind, and by the time he would realize that it would be too late and he would go insane. If the damaged peacock miraculous affects the body then the butterfly miraculous affects the mind, and that would make Gabriel's actions less abominable because it would be an effect of the miraculous without him realizing it until he was crazy enough to not care about any consequence and do the things we've seen him do, mostly in season 5, he was already mean before but this season really made him abominable and cruel.

[@babyxblue]

That woulda been so interesting actually

[@romain8996]

Spoiler but It’s funny because it’s what they did in the movie. Nooroo warns him, even tries to talk him out of it because of that.

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

@@romain8996 I saw reviews of the movie since I couldn't wait, but I already had this idea for Gabriel, the movie makes it clear that the misused miraculous will transform you.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

I was actually wondering if Gabe's sudden and out of character musical number might have been the Show's attempt to depict his insanity. And like many other things, the show doesn't do that very well. I mean, what other reason would there be for the normally so serious Gabriel to suddenly start dancing and singing. With Felix it makes sense. He's an overly dramatic theater kid. But with Gabriel?! Clearly the man has gone insane!

[@akeelahbruce1821]

That was my headcannon and also prat of a fanfic I scrapped years ago. Literally mid season 3

[@powerpuff6872]

Not really loving how Chloe is being sent back with her mother with the implication she's going to be abused. Losing everything was enough, but that sinister little cherry on top was just awful. Not to mention the undeserving "redemption" of andre as a character, who leaves his daughter who he helped create in relation to her monstrous personality, and instead replaces her with zoe who is easier to manage.

[@Rossweise]

I can not get over how cruel it is to spoil a child rotten and be shocked and disgusted they are rotten and spoiled...

[@FlaschenJoe11]

Let'S not forget there is a cut scene, that basically says that Andre and Audrey get divorced. He claims custody over zoe, so she can stay in Paris, then out of spite, Audrey calls to take Chloé with her....to which Andre just goes "Good, hope you two get to be happy".... DAFUQ?! I thought he was one of two people that genuinely love her.....

[@AarnaAmbardar-n5d]

no she was never supposed to be redeemed kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5O0q4N7etyImZo

[@SafaMughal-i6h]

Yae I feel bad for chole like think your father who know you from birth now he wont like you and like beinh around zoe@@FlaschenJoe11

[@joeljohansson3615]

The biggest things I didn't like about the finally was. 1) Adrien wasn't part of the final fight. Meaning he didn't get to know his father is the big bad of the season. Instead of seeing him goes against his father and maybe almost killing him before Marinette stops him. We just see him give his miraculous to Plagg before falling sleep, and then we see him at the end. Not even seeing his reaction to his mother being back. 2) The wish was very unclear. Just take the Emilie and Nathalie scene at the end. Some people say it's Emilie, some say it's Amalie. It confuse me because we don't know exactly what Gabriel wished for. If he wished for two people getting back to life. And he sacrificed himself. Who was the other one he sacrificed? And how did it work because he was about to die anyway. 3) Marinette not telling Adrien his father was Hawkmoth. I know she promised Gabriel. But why did she agree? Why not just saying so and then telling Adrien and everyone else? Let me just say. If Adrien finds out in season six. Then I hope they don't brush it off. 4) Just every miraculous heroes keeping their miraculous permanently. Alix I understand because her miraculous is powerful. But the others? What if they accidentally spill it, or lose the miraculous? And saying it's more secure than having them all in the mother box. That BS. It's even more risky than before. Why not make so only the guardian (Marinette) can get the miraculous? 5) Gabriel's "redemption". So they gave an abusive and power hungry man, who had akumatized his son twice, and caused the end of the world twice, a redemption last second. But not a girl who just had a bad upbringing and showed signs for changing. Just why? 6) The most important. NO IDENTITY REVEAL!!! I was sure that season five was gonna be the season where Marinette and Adrien revealed their identities. But nope. We didn't get that. So yeah this final was a waste of time. Let's hope the movie is better since Thomas Astruc isn't involved. And he's not gonna be involved with season 6 forward.

[@Notme57367]

Great, I agree with you. Thank god thomas is not involved in s6

[@Notme57367]

I don't understand how season 6 is the new beginning. Ik it's the end of Gabriel and Emilie comes back but did his wish really work. What if that is Amelie?who knows. What happened to kagami and Felix . What is the meaning of the last scene where there is a blue lighting behind Lila. Why did not they end every single thing. I m looking forward to s6 because I can't understand what even happened in the ending.😅

[@zechariahanderson98]

@@Notme57367 praise the lord

[@Silver-Kaitou]

Thank god I dropped this show.

[@impaster2166]

Unfortunately Astruc is still on the writing team for Season 6 and onward.

[@citizen5707]

I find it so funny how adrien plays absolutely no part in his own family story. There is no reason he should know nothing about his own family issues while marinette does.

[@KelShu]

Adrien is the most mishandled character in this season finale. . He was left in the dark about his father being Monarch . He didn’t get to participate in the final fight. . We didn’t get to see him see his mom again If this is how he is handled here, I have very little hope for the final season

[@assiaelkhayate-sl8hu]

Final season ? You mean there's going to be at least 8 seasons,even 12 if the audience is still there. It's confirmed. Help

[@KelShu]

@@assiaelkhayate-sl8hu Thought it was just gonna be 6, oh god

[@seankock7649]

every season finalle they where together fighting as a team, the whole point was making lady bug the main character alone in a dreadfull scenerio and try and shield the pain of his fathers reality form him we will see if that carries any problems in the future

[@sifa_sky9209]

"Ladybug and Chat Noir are equals" my a$$. Adrien deserved so much more

[@Thehonoredone110]

Yeah in my options I prefer Adrien?

[@nkohler5601]

Who said they are equals? I know ladybug does but nobody else does. Gabriel always has his final monolog about Ladybug. The plans are aways to counter Ladybug and Noir is an afterthought. Heck the largest sources of information qbout them is Ladyblog. Nothing about Noir. It is 9ne of the problems the show has in their dichotomy of 'show vs tell'

[@sifa_sky9209]

@@nkohler5601 if i remember corectly, Tom Astruc says they're equals at some point in twitter. And also the tittle says "miraculous : tales of ladybug *and* chat noir" but yea everyone knows at this point it's a lie 😃

[@liaheben]

@@sifa_sky9209 in what part of the opening song they said cat noir or talk about Adrien? Because the opening begins with "I'm Marinette" And there's no chat noir's ending.

[@sifa_sky9209]

@@liaheben I was reffering to the tittle...not the opening song 😅

[@Zednoght]

Chat Noir not being there at the end can be a HUGE plot device to bring back Chat Blanc, to find out his Dad, the hero of Paris, is actually the big evil that terrorized everyone and he was not told this, even more world shattering if he finds out Marinette's identity, possibly feeling betrayed by the one he loves. I can easily see Lyla telling Adrian this and exploiting those emotions during her arch as the new Hawk Moth.

[@MTMguy]

We can only hope that's the route the writers take

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

I never thought about it before but after seeing the finale I want Adrien to have his villan arc he is one of the few characters I would never blame if they became evil

[@fearnotmy1000eyes]

ngl if lila did that and used adrien and cat noir against marinette and ladybug that would be interesting. one, adrien at cat noir's angers would be justified and two, i kinda wanna see mari and ladybug's actions bite them in the ass

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

@@fearnotmy1000eyes I agree but the fact he will be used again by someone is pretty unfair and will just prove to me the writers don't like Adrien at all I would prefer Adrien having his villan arc alone with no one using him

[@Halfbad-bf1lt]

While I would love the consequences of the finale lead to Adrian going dark side I don’t think I believe in the writing enough anymore to believe that they are intentionally threading plot points like that. I don’t think there is any intentional foreshadowing going on; they spent 5 series building up to the possibility and suspense of a confrontation and reveal between Gabe and Adrian, giving us fake outs in dreams and alternate timelines but instead we got this

[@phoenixshadow6633]

It's telling how much Astruc wants to shelter Adrien by literally giving his arc with Gabriel to Felix and Marinette. He literally sleeps through the finale.

[@Doomzdeh]

I must’ve missed the part where Felix was involved. He legit got the Peacock Miraculous, had one episode, and then completely disappeared aside from some vague and sudden romance with Kagami. Didn’t help the heroes; didn’t face consequences for his actions. Wasn’t targeted by Gabriel despite being his enemy who knew his secret identity. Then he pops in to tell Marinette who Monarch is before completely vanishing before the finale and not even appearing to rescue his girlfriend and cousin, despite having a miraculous. And his warning to Marinette about who Monarch was isn’t even what motivated the final battle between her and Monarch, as she disregarded what Felix said and only approached Gabriel because she wanted to help Adrien. Felix was built up to be important, but he was just as useless as Adrien in the end. Only Marinette is allowed to have any plot relevance in this show, as she is a female and Astruc apparently thinks that means that he should devote the plot entirely to her, regardless of how well any of it fits.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

The wish really irks me because early on in the show, we were led to believe that a wish would come at an equal cost, so everyone assumed that wishing for Emilie back would cost someone else's life. But then as the show went on, it was said that making a wish, even something tiny, would end the current universe and create a new one where the wish is granted which is WAY worse. Gabriel already wasn't very sympathetic when he wanted to kill one person to get Emilie back but he's DEFINITELY not sympathetic for wanting to kill an entire universe to get Emilie back. And yet Chloe, whose worst crime was nearly crashing a train, is irredeemable? This show really does suffer from an inability to thoroughly and accurately explain things without hiding stuff that really shouldn't be hidden or changing it up later to fit the story. And also dang, that is a lot of people that aren't Adrien that know he's a sentimonster 😵 Man, Astruc just really loves ignoring Adrien 🙄

[@kamilslup7743]

because adrien is a perfect little boy, and having him know anything would hurt his feelings and make him do bad things, so he wouldn't be perfect

[@dabest8777]

@@kamilslup7743 nobody is perfect. Also seriously? "It'll hurt his feelings!" That's so dumb. Yeah, the truth sometimes hurts, but that doesn't mean we should lie just so we feel better

[@never_zherin]

I liked s5 finale BUT I hate how they made Gabriel "the hero" in the end LIKE WHY??? HE LITERALLY TERRORIZED PARIS FOR 5 SEASONS FIVE

[@Bezaliel13]

@@never_zherin Because he rewrote the universe. Gimme: "So, you want you wife revived, Nathalie healed, and a *tacky statue* made out of your rings." Maybe Bug Noir should have had help.

[@Abaddon..]

@@dabest8777I think @kamilslup7743 was Being sarcastic

[@SimplyMariposa]

Cholé; A child who was basically neglected her whole life and no one ever really tried to help her: Unredeemable Gabriel; a grown man playing dress up while fighting a bunch of teens just so he can revive his dead wife: Redeemable On a different note, if they wanted to show that some people *don’t* want to change, why not just use Lila? Cholé could’ve shown the audience that people can change while Lila is the opposite. Being forgiven is the last thing on Lila’s mind from the looks of it.

[@andrewshearsby8125]

And with that logic the fans have left

[@cyberhero5559]

Or another example could’ve been Audrey since most narcissistic parents don’t change.

[@Theawesomeninja_XD]

Exactly! Lila would've been perfect for this!

[@Bezaliel13]

@@Theawesomeninja_XD Which is why she is the new Hawkmoth.

[@purpleirken1529]

That's exactly what I've been thinking for YEARS!!! It's so easy to make her the permanent evil while Chloe gets a good change! 😭

[@Blazing_Emblem_Natsumi]

It’s not that Chloe doesn’t WANT to change, Bell-bell. It’s that she doesn’t KNOW HOW to change! I’m sick of people getting that wrong. Chloe has been emotionally abused by her mother, wondering why she didn’t want her, and was neglected by her own father! Not to mention she’s still a teenaged girl who has fully developed yet! There is a difference between not wanting and not knowing how!

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

That point was only brought up because Astruc keeps saying that she doesn't want to change haha But sentencing a 14 year old to such a fate without a possibility of redemption just seems cruel.

[@ozvuchkibilla]

And She doesn't know WHY to change. Everyone is forgetting about this, but to do something you've got to have a reason. Chloe doesn't have a the reason to change. Everybody in her Class hate her, her mom hates her, her stupad*ss dad neglected her for her "perfect" halfsister Zoe, Ladybug hates her, PARIS hates her, why would she even want to change? Change for people who hate you and are ready to celebrate day you left?

[@kamilslup7743]

@@ozvuchkibilla yeah, they literally did that in season 3 (Maledictator), the only person who didn't have fun from chloe's departure was adrien, her only friend at the time (adrien did break that friendship in the next season, specifically the episode "Queen Banana")

[@ashebennett7726]

I agree with you guys. Thomas and his toxic fans have no heart.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

I'd say that Chloe doesn't entirely *feel* a need to change. She used to always get what she wanted and could freely threaten people into agreeing with her because her Dad was the Mayor. She didn't care about Zoe, she didn't care about Marinette....the only person who Chloe really liked was Adrien and her Mom, though in Audrey's case, it's really more a desire to be noticed. Often, the easiest way to make a character change in a story, or at least the most effective, is by taking things from them. Take away Chloe's power in the form Daddy dearest being the Mayor and we are slowly getting somewhere. Maybe even take away Sabrina. Chloe was never exactly a nice person and without her Henchgirl and her Dad, she would need to learn to be normal. To treat people better if she wants something.

[@KelShu]

I absolutely hate how Thomas handled Chloe; not only is it hypocritical of him to redeem Gabe (the man that terrorized Paris on a daily basis), while saying that she's irredeemable, but it was also a missed opportunity, Chloe's character development done right could have shown that even characters that are mean to others can change and grow to be better.

[@NothingPerson44]

I am pretty sure Chloe’s redemption was in the perfect place to be fully and rightfully completed during the episode of “Miraculer” because of the way she rejected the akuma, still had devotion to fighting with Ladybug, and even accepting Ladybug’s decisions about her being Queen Bee less due to the dangers of HawkMoth. Just from that episode alone made me super excited and hopeful that Chloe might become a better person Queen Bee AND not Queen Bee. And I really thought that in Heart Hunter episode that Chloe was finally gonna have her moment since it was the season finale. I thought that she will finally or be one step closer to become a completely different person for that season finale. Too bad Miracle Queen had to happen the way it did and left me completely shattered and devastated for her. And of course, Queen Banana and Penalteam made me hate Chloe even more just because of the way they have written her in those episodes. I hated it so much, but I also felt bad because I still somehow see hope in her eyes that she wants to change, but is letting her ego get through her head. So yeah, I completely agree that Chloe deserved A WHOLE LOT BETTER than Gabe ever did! I know Chloe was very mean and abusive to many of the main characters and main secondary characters (Alya, Max, Nino, Sabrina, etc). But keep in mind the main difference between Chloe and Gabe is this: Chloe mostly targeted the class and only caused a few akumatizations. Gave on the other hand has hurt the entire city of Paris, abused his own son multiple times, and vowed to put anybody in life-threatening situations just to get the things he desires. On top of everything that Gabe did throughout all seasons contrasted from Chloe’s actions, her redemption was a whole lot more redeemable because she actually had potential to change. I will never look at this show again after this season’s finale.

[@ceeford9919]

I actually heard that Chloe was based off a bully in Thomas's life. So if it's true, then there is some bias on why he had her not changed and ran any redemption into the ground.

[@NothingPerson44]

@@ceeford9919 Oh okay. That makes sense. But it still does not give Thomas himself an excuse to do Chloe the way he did. And who knows? SOME bullies can change to become better people. Chloe had that kind of potential. But it just feels wrong that he can just throw her in the trash and make her completely unlikable, especially if there are fans out there that are still rooting for Chloe or still or used to like her. I proudly say that I am one of them. So overall, it is cool to based a character off of your personal life, but just because you despise that character, does not mean you can just completely destroy and ruin for everyone who likes it. That is what makes the series shine: with all of the characters have a good purpose. But thanks for pointing that out. Makes this whole entire thing make sense. And also, I don’t think Thomas would stop to think: Gabe would’ve been a lot worse if he was the bully rather than Chloe, because he actually hurt a lot more people than Chloe ever did, including Adrien, and Chloe would never do something like that to Adrien even if she became a secondary villain. We all know that Chloe is bad, but please remember that there are a whole lot of people out there that are a lot worst.

[@KelShu]

@@ceeford9919 If that rumor is true, that’s just shows his immaturity as a writer

[@ceeford9919]

@@NothingPerson44 That's true.

[@aleksandram.]

They should have let Nooroo finally rest from evil holders. He had a few very, very tough years with Gabe, being shouted at, insulted and muted with magic (which is a type of physical abuse. That makes the whole thing even more serious.). For the majority of time he was completely alone, until he reunited with Duusu. But now she is gone again. Moreover, she, who didn't suffer so much being used for evil (due to her carefree nature), returned to being used for good, while Nooroo still has to help with evil plans against his will. We don't know, what type of person Lila would be to Nooroo. Maybe not as bad as Gabriel, but I don't have optimistic expectations. I get the impression, that the kwami's feelings never even cross the writer's minds. For them, they are only funny pets that talk, give magic and glue children's eyes to screens. At the same time, they treat them as just objects that give magic and happen to talk. When you said, that it may never end, I felt... sad. Just sad for poor Nooroo. Pooroo.

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

Poor Nooroo 😭

[@rurihime4965]

Makes you wonder why they even exist in the first place (I know it's to sell toys but at least give the Kwamis beyond Plagg a semblance of a personality)

[@gabimferraz5212]

the absolute most absur this is that this show all takes place in ONE YEAR

[@anikabeauty547]

Poor Nooroo. I have not watched the show fully so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But why not give Nooroo a break and have the next villain use a different miraculous?? Like the time travel ones? That way we can see how the butterfly can be used for good while we see the villain have new powers and strategies. Make things fresh and interesting.

[@aleksandram.]

@@anikabeauty547 Yes, great idea! The rooster has a lot of potential, for example. A time villain is indeed a good concept, however he/she might be too overpowered, which might lead to the writers forcing his/her stupid decisions, so that the heroes could win. Well, when I look at it that way, probably the rooster is also too strong... I love the concept of a very niche superpower, at first glance useless, but very powerful if properly used. If someone came up with a highly dangerous pig miraculous holder, I would Rejoice. I am also On The Hunt for an idea of dog miraculous villain. It could even be a completely new miraculous from a different box! Fresh ideas, plus world expansion.

[@manuelabalo8903]

Adrien's whole existence is the focal point of the WHOLE SHOW!! His birth is what made Emily sick, what impulsed Monarch to become who he is, not having him in the finale was absolute bs writing, and the fact that Adrien not being able to disobey his father (bc he was emotionally abused since his mother passed AND BC HE'S A SENTIMONSTER) DID NOT CHANGE OR HAD ANY -MAJOR- SIGNIFICANCE during the final fight makes my blood boil, they had so many chances to give Adrien the character development that he -and the audience- deserves but they just locked him away in a torture chamber and said yeah let's keep ONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS there during the whole end, that'll work!! We didn't even get Adrien's reunion with his mother!! if that even is his mother, we never got clear if that's Emily or her sister!! They just played it like yeah well she's probably alive now but who cares let's get 2 whole minutes on Paris being ecological THAT'S MORE INTERESTING TO THE AUDIENCE! Anyway i blame all this on Thomas Austruc, he purposefully refused to give Adrien and Chloe any character development, and to this day he defends that decision bc "Marinette is the star of the show"

[@JuniorGustabo]

Adrien and Chloe are probably the most interesting characters in the show.

[@DishonorableMentions452]

His birth is not what made Emilie sick the peacock miraculous did and she only died 1 year before the series started because you can see a picture of present Adrien with his mother which means that her death was incredibly recent

[@twilighttoyz1701]

​@@DishonorableMentions452yeah, and also in the show, in what I think was season 3 (could be wrong) it was Adrian's first year without his mum, and the Christmas special was his first Christmas without her

[@nkohler5601]

I have a feeling that Mr Austruc hasn't actually been writing for a while. As you watch the show go on you see more writers appear in the credits. I suspect Mr. Astruc just gives the basic outline and tells the others to fill in the details. It would explain the inconsistencies of fhe show or why it sometimes takes an entire season for a plot in one episode (Luka finding out the two heroes identities) to become relevant again. It took that long for that ghost writer to get brought back.

[@manuelabalo8903]

@@nkohler5601 He came back to the writing after season 3 finale

[@ashebennett7726]

This is why so many people are walking away from this show. Harsh but true. The thing is, there were people talking about how the awakening movie did everything for the fans in over an hour than Thomas would ever do in five seasons and Thomas says “the movie gives the fans what they want but MY show gives the fans what they need”. And his explanations are just so moronic and as usual, makes no sense. Because having pay off and closure IS what the fans NEED not desire and Thomas refuses to give us this. Like he cares about the fans since this is more about HIS desires, not the fans needs for pay off, closure and fulfilling narrative promises. Another thing that grinds my gears is how Thomas claims this is a feminist show, and yet a bully who is female is “irredeemable” while a literal universal terrorist is “sympathetic”. If anyone other than Thomas wrote this show, they wouldn’t write GABRIEL to be sympathetic over Chloe a literal child! “So remember kids, every girl is a superhero. But if they’re mean and have issues, they’re worse than any supervillain.” Logic (sarcasm). And it’s insulting how they handle abuse. Thomas claims that Chloe and Adrien weren’t abused. What does he think abuse is? He wouldn’t know abuse if it literally slapped him in the face. I hate how marinette basically gaslights Adrien by basically saying his dad was never abusive. That’s Thomas’ words. And not only is it insulting that Adrien arc doesn’t come full circle and every narrative promise with him is broken, but he’s basically robbed of any rights to have his own personal feelings and opinions on his own family matters. That makes marinette just about as bad as Adrien’s controlling father. I’m watching reruns of ATLA. I don’t care what Thomas says, that show is a million times better than what he writes. Sorry for being salty but I am so disappointed. These kids deserve better. The fans deserve better.

[@soggycereal1649]

I love your baby Varian pfp!!!!

[@ashebennett7726]

@@soggycereal1649oh why thank you. ☺️❤️

[@Halfbad-bf1lt]

You’ve summed it up perfectly. The whole show is a weird wish fulfilment for Astruc; and normally I don’t have a problem with people creating media they wish already existed because it lets us get more diverse media. But Astruc has taken it to a delusional level; he’s repeatedly said that Marinette’s whole family is some sort of self insert wish fulfilment, her dad is a self insert of himself, her mum is based on an ex-girlfriend of his and he genuinely see Marinette (a fictional character) as his own daughter. He overly punishes Chloe because she is based on his own childhood bully, so sprinkle in so weird revenge fantasy too. I get people exploring a version of reality they wish was real in the stuff they create; but with the context Thomas has given about how he views the characters I feel this is a bit creepy for a children’s cartoon. The man has way to much emotional investment in fictional character and acts as though they are real people; he could probably use a more constructive outlet for these issue, like a councillor or therapy

[@ashebennett7726]

@ferret4111 not to mention, it’s hypocritical.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@Halfbad-bf1lt ikr! This guy pushes his creepy world views onto children. And his wish fulfillments for a “family” and his bully is just so disturbing. Man needs a therapist, a psychiatrist, a life coach and meds.

[@AlienFriend]

If you want to see a good alternate ending, I would check out Amanda Todhunter's S4 and S5 recap video. At the end of the video, she re-writes the finale and it made me kind of sad that she had more competent writing than the people working on the show. It's kind of short, but I would suggest checking it out :) She basically makes Adrien the center piece of the story (ex. When Kagami and Felix show Marinette that play, Adrien is replaced instead, because HE'S the one who needs to know this. Not Marinette.)

[@kamilslup7743]

best part is that marinette is using 0% of the information from the interpretative dance that explained everything (including who monarch is)

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@kamilslup7743yea ikr, like the 2nd day she doesn't even remember that telix and kagami basically telled her that Monarch is Gabriel agrest

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@nicolas._.2294 I mean, if *I* saw this weird masked mime theater, I would question reality as well.

[@irmalair9861]

Yess I loved that vid

[@AlienFriend]

@@johannesseyfried7933 fr when I first saw them, I literally burst out laughing because I couldn't comprehend what was happening 💀

[@rocbenaa1963]

EXACTLY!! Chloe was just a spoiled teenager who's just learning how the world works while Gabriel is a grown up man who rules a really huge business and he knows 100% what he's doing, there'sa really big difference, and they say Chloe is the worst of the worst?

[@meredithsmakings3068]

I gave up on this show a long time ago, but I do love listening to you talk about it! And boy, not having Adrien/Chat Noir more involved in the story that’s pretty much centered around him was a huge mistake. See! This is why I resort to fanfiction 😂

[@galaxyshii8853]

The biggest defense I see for Adrien being wasted is “Well he’s a deuteragonist” and I am convinced that people who use this defense don’t know what a deuteragonist actually is because a deuteragonist is a SECOND main character. A deuteragonist shouldn’t be less important than two characters who haven’t been mentioned in years until a 30 second dream sequence Further more I do think some things were planned out and I also think they got too carried away with inspiration. I saw on Twitter that the writers add a lot then basically play process of elimination (take this with a grain of salt) so I think Thomas is operating more on what he thinks is cool or would get a reaction or make his story SEEM complex more than actually writing an organic story

[@DragonGoddess18]

In other words, Thomas is a terrible writer

[@rockhistoria2537]

good example of deurotagonist: homura akemi from madoka magica

[@wellitsmelbell]

Another good example of a deuteragonist is Killua from Hunter x Hunter

[@Moonlightss320]

A perfect good example of a deuteragonist is Dazai Osamu from Bungo stray dogs,he is such a deep character with relevance in the story that you know the story wouldn’t work without him,he is important to his world just as much as the main character.

[@ashebennett7726]

@@DragonGoddess18 that’s an understatement.

[@Gatekid3]

My biggest gripe with bug noir is the lack of a transformation. The only reason I cared about seeing new characters get their miraculous was to see the transformation and powers. Towards the end they stopped caring and had several who's transformations we never see. You can argue transformations were a crutch in shows like this to save time but i've grown to love them. Its so weird. How can a magical girl show just skip its biggest transformation. They could have fused the transformation themes and made the form more hype despite how it looks.

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

RIGHT?! That was such a weird choice. Part of the fun of magical girls are the transformation 😭

[@Gatekid3]

@@TheArtisticAloubell Well, there will be more seasons, hopefully they will at least try to make up for it later

[@MGory828]

The Season 5 finale was so bad in my own eyes, that it officially made me think this show is irredeemable of getting better. Yes! MLB will forever be irredeemable in my eyes. Even if they do any form of good writing in SS6, don’t expect me to sit there and go, wow, this show is great.

[@melit.]

Honestly, I feel you on this

[@DragonGoddess18]

Same Even if writing in the sixth season does improve, it's just putting a bandaid on a broken leg

[@joaovictornogueira323]

Well the show CAN be redeemed, but only if it gets TOTALLY REWRITED, since now the villain changed, the story changed and a whole arc ended it may be a really great opportunity just to change the show entirely, make season 1-5 one show and seasons 6 and forward another, but that isn't going to be the case unfortunately

[@kamilslup7743]

@@joaovictornogueira323 yeah give it a simillar treatment to lego ninjago the final season (crystallized) was really bad while it wrapped up a lot of plot points so what do the creators do? they make a soft reboot in the form of ninjago: dragons rising, with new characters and a new story

[@Orionsupernova]

so then why contribute to its agenda if it’s “bad”. Ur still gonna continue watching it despite finding it irredeemable. Y’all make no sense

[@epicmike2055]

You know, if Adrian, cat noir ever decided to turn into a villain I think it justified, think about it most of the time everyone is keeping him out of the loop about everything and even now marranatte( who really should have told him) isn’t telling him about something big as this, could be a sign of betrayal of trust and can really trust no one but himself. Also side note: bug noir really? Lady noir was right there they really fumbled the bag there Also also side note: what the heck was Felix doing during all this? Could have probably use some backup or something, maybe even set adrien and Kagami free?

[@kamilslup7743]

they couldn't use lady noir because it was already in use with marinette using just the cat noir miraculous, also adrien not knowing anything and being kept out of the loop was the reason for all his angst in season 3 and 4 (he threatened to renounce his miraculous in "Siren" then actually did it, only to come back with a different costume in "Kuro Neko")

[@nekogamer2508]

Thomas Austruc will say it's unjustified and block people who disagree

[@little.prince]

Thomas really did that. This petty middle school drama against a fictional character is literally the most annoying thing in this series.

[@maryamsalah8709]

What I was wondering is why didn't Nooroo show up to Lila when she put the Butterfly Miraculous on herself? Kwamis usually appear right after the holder puts on their Miraculous, so why didn't he appear? And what was she so scared of at the end?

[@johannesseyfried7933]

The Spirit of Hawkmoth dragging her lying ass away to the shadow realm? 😂

[@guillermocervisalmeron2209]

I guess is gonna be an electric villain or something new to make more toys

[@Trans_SovietBee]

Would be fun if its real appearance of nooro

[@FlaschenJoe11]

Thinking about it: Adrien is set up to be the best villain the show could have: -No one tells him anything (Something that Lila could capitalize on, by being the ONLY ONE being truthful to him...the irony) -He gets pushed to the side in any decision made (Like...weren't they meant to be equal partners?) -He literally has NO support network right now, with Luka gone... Seriously. I would love it, if Season 6 featured Chat Noir slowly turn away and become a villain for a while

[@darkyami12141]

The fact that Adrien/Chat Noir wasn't part of the final fight was what ruined the finale for me. like don't get me wrong, Gimmi and true forms of Tikki and Plagg were insanely cool. But all of that falls flat the second they shafted Adrien not to confront his father.

[@ET0071]

An 8 year wait for a finale that cat noir didn’t even get to participate in, can’t believe they aired this as the finale, absolute letdown. Hawkmoth basically won in the end 😂

[@mirmy_waffle_fry]

@@ET0071IKR, such a waste of time. 8 WHOLE YEARS! Ugh

[@meibd1737]

If you've seen astrucs tweet where he says chat noir is just lady bug's ken to her barbie. THE STORY LITERALLY SURROUNDS AT ADRIENS WHOLE LIFE AND THOMAS HAS THE AUDACITY??? He never failed to dissapoint

[@solidSnake4580]

So let me get this straight Astruc Chloe, a 14/15 year old girl that does petty bullying yet showed signs of changing and having remorse is irredeemable? But somehow it’s only ok for other characters who are technically worse than Chloe when some of them committed murder can be redeemed like Darth Vader, Sasuke, Vegeta, Zuko, Shadow, Golbez, Kuja, Harry Osborn, Venom (on some occasions) and even the most hated character like Bellamy from One Piece. Now I do like to write my own original stories pretty often, not saying any names but I recall having a character who does bad things like Chloe and plan on redeeming said character. It’s reasons like this I would love to have a discussion with Astruc on the topic of redemption in person so that he won’t feel safe behind a keyboard with a block button ready. Edit: I think it’s really telling if in my version of Ladybug I actually would of redeemed Chloe and made her a third main character.

[@kamilslup7743]

queen bee is a great superhero, with good design and a simple yet powerful ability

[@solidSnake4580]

@@kamilslup7743 It was such a waste to throw away Queen Bee. Someone like that could of been seen as Ladybug’s muscle.

[@TheSpawnfan]

No Cat, just the bug, and Lila became Hawk Moth. It seems the writers wanted to go with Felix, but changed their minds and decided to make him, Adrian and Tsurugi into Sentimonsters, and they killed off Nathalie, along with giving one of the worst excuses for turning the world against Ladybug.

[@kamilslup7743]

they don't seem to explain it but i understood it in like 5 minutes, the meditation app to cure the nightmare caused by gabriel partially brainwashes people to make them abandon all rational thought and just take everything for granted, and i did find it to be an ironic representation of big corporations making up problems, then providing "solutions" that are worse than the problem (and also social media where a lot of people trust everything they see, without doing any research first)

[@lyrastarstriker7304]

I’m not a fan of canon, Chloe or Adrien at all, but even I think that nobody deserves this kind of finale. It just seems like a giant screw you to people who got invested, not to mention Gabriel’s whole thing. I’m glad I’m fixing it with my own alterations to canon. Injecting a bit of felinette in there lmao

[@JuniorGustabo]

Chloe and Adrien deserve to be part of a better show.

[@lyrastarstriker7304]

@@JuniorGustabo every character does. I hate what the writers do with their characters, the plot, everything. Whenever I’m upset at something Chloe or Adrien does, it’s mostly the writers because they’re bad at their job and see problematic things as okay. Just. Ugh. Fanfiction for the win.

[@dashleyrosa]

You are so right about Adrien in miraculous. I was expecting him to get character development in show but no. "Let protect his feelings" I don't like that. He should know the true. It builds character.

[@zechariahanderson98]

The thing I don’t like about this fandom sometimes is how most of the fandom doesn’t even criticize the show they are just blinded by the terrible romance fanfics do better that is a fact

[@zechariahanderson98]

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDennisTRF if only tomas astruca was not the creator we could have a more satisfying miraculous

[@us3rk1t30]

FR BRUH, miraculous TikTok mf's are some of the most annoying ppl in the Fandom 💀💀

[@purpledshadow]

@@us3rk1t30And the fact that they try to justify Marinette stalking Adrien with her “backstory episode” or whatever 💀

[@mirmy_waffle_fry]

@@purpledshadowFR, it makes me upset that these people defend the writing in the show

[@cryforhelp7270]

​@@purpledshadowYou mean the "backstory episode" that came up in the 5th season? The one we had no prior hints to despite so many things that should've made it flare up? The one that just came out of NOWHERE? God.

[@AnonymouseKing]

Imma be honest: I'm a fusion kinda guy. The idea of merging two characters together to create a combination of both has always been so fascinating for me. Alas, even my love for fusions can't even bring me to like Bug Noire, because in order for her to exist, we had to sacrifice a decent, or at least satisfying conclusion to the Agreste saga. And that's sad.

[@redram6080]

Bug noir could have existed in an episode where Adrian was out cold like Style queen.

[@kou7191]

Things were most definitely not planned out, it's kinda obvious seeing how seasons 4 and specially 5 retconned so much stuff they're essentially a soft reboot to the show. With the exception of key episodes like Marinette meeting Master Fu, becoming the new guardian, and the additional miraculous holder debuts/Chloe's betrayal, seasons 1 to 3 are entirely irrelevant.

[@Mlovespugs1011]

One of the things I was disappointed about, was one major plot point: Adrien will NEVER get to know that Ladybug is Marinette. Unless, for some reason, they finally reveal after Lila is dealt with. Which could be the case, but after watching this show since S3, I was sad I didn't get to see my favorite Ladynoir ship have the bond I wanted them to have after they defeated Hawkmoth in S5 which feels like the "ending", but its just mostly a cliffhanger for the next two seasons that were confirmed. I just wanna know, do Plagg and Tikki still know a wish was made if the ENTIRE world was recreated? I'm still confused. The writing is so unclear and bad that I don't know how many loose ends there are. I wanna say yes that they know cause... well, they made the wish happen, but who knows, they could have memory loss like everyone else in this show. Another thing, they could've made Luka have Adrien and him be best friends, since Nino wasn't as good to him in the show in the past. (for many reasons...) Which I HATED the fact they made Luka leave. And you were right about the Chloe thing. She deserved redemption more than Gabriel did. Honestly, the fact Marinette wasn't mad about Gabriel abusing his son says a LOT. Like sure, I guess she was shocked, but she still didn't get as upset as I probably would have if I were Marinette. Gabriel's character arc was a huge slap to the face when I realized what kind of... "wish" he made. Anyways, I loved the points you made in your video. I just wish this show had better writing and respect that it deserved, but oh well. Thanks for reading this if you do, I really like watching your view points on the show. Makes me know I'm not alone with these weird plot points in this show lol.

[@user-soneinewholazyforcontent]

I am pretty sure ladybug tiki and plagg all remember what happened since we see that gabriel is said to be hero ladybug told adrien his father helped him (and possibly died in a fight) and that she fixed all miraculous

[@BlueDaisy33]

As someone who has never watched an episode of this show and loves watching video essays every-time a season finish’s, I know and fully believe 2 things. 1) Chloe was done dirty because she is an abused child and it’s very worrying that the creator cannot see that (set would not want to know him irl) and 2) Adrian is horribly mistreated by his father, his friends and his love interest (gaslighting much). He is one of the two characters whose name is in the title, let him do things. Honestly if he becomes a villain it’s totally understandable and I root for him. Anyone have good fic recs where this boy stands up for himself and is done with everyone?

[@packwolf1575]

honestly Tomas not being able to see Chloe as an abuse victim is actually making me question this guy's relationships and childhood. What has this guy gone through in order to see this as normal? And why hasn't he sought out a therapist? he seems to really need one considering how he treats the story and those why criticise it.

[@AarnaAmbardar-n5d]

no she was never supposed to be redeemed kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5O0q4N7etyImZo

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

I really hope they do something with Gabriel's ending because it was revolting, and the fact that he doesn't reveal what his wish was along with what happens to Tomoe and Lila at the end gives the impression that he has planned something and will come back somehow, this would be a way to give him consequences by making him not be able to enjoy anything of the wish and be stuck with Lila and Tomoe in the same way he imprisoned and controlled the kwamis and his own son(this could also explain why he asked Marinete not to tell the truth, because if he managed to come back he could get away with everything).

[@masterpinkqueenandthese3450]

I know: is the Agreste's arc a wasted potencial 😢😢😢😢 Was really easy to know 😂😂 Funfact: Dear writers where is Cat Noir is missing, Am right or not? Another question, after all the crimes that Gabby did like: Mass murder Mass destruction (both undone by Ladybug) Attempted filicide (unknowingly) Theft Terrorism Stalking Slavery Omnicide Kidnapping Assault and battery Child abuse Psychological abuse Child endangerment Trespassing Public endangerment Mass brainwashing Conspiracy Blackmail Torture Cyberterrorism Death threats Warmongering He gets Redeemed?!

[@kamilslup7743]

gabriel is the first redeemed war criminal, let's fucking go

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@kamilslup7743😭🤣🤣🤣🤣 ikr My man was trying to start WW3 in the NY special wichout any remorse but he is redeemable

[@Leader7353]

@@kamilslup7743 megatron from transformers prime also somehow got redeemed

[@cryforhelp7270]

​@@kamilslup7743(The Diamonds)

[@yusufbekcoolman2671]

"Miraculous isn't like SpongeBob" . Of course, it's not nearly as good as SpongeBob . Best take on that finale I've seen so far . The drawing is a cherry on top 🎬

[@TheArtisticAloubell]

X'D

[@ricomannen2502]

They did Adrian so dirty in this finale.😭 That's all I gotta say. He never got to know his father was a villain and will now forever see him as a good person that did nothing wrong

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

I love Miraculous and it really pains me to see people talking bad about it but I have to admit that they are right and many things wrong with the show could be easily fixed...

[@Mebro-m6d]

I feel pain when writers screw it. And Thomas...

[@rhaeasoul8531]

I was able to somewhat forgive everything else but this finale was awful; one of the worst final battles / arc finales I’ve ever seen.

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

@@rhaeasoul8531 I actually think the battle itself was interesting mainly because of the friction that has been forming between Marinete and Gabriel, the fact that one of Bugnoire's luckycharms is a baker's shovel is quite symbolic since when Gabriel threatens her in Pretension they talk about her being the baker's daughter and he tries to make her feel inferior, so at least I liked those action parts, the end of the fight is what ruined everything.

[@rhaeasoul8531]

The actual fight was great it’s just sad it wasn’t in a good finale.

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

@@rhaeasoul8531 yeah...

[@CeliMe007]

Marinette and Adrian's relationship would be heading towards disaster if this show was written with her suffering consequences. I don't know how a relationship can last when you make your partner's abuser look like a hero and they end up hero worshiping them and comparing themselves to their abuser. It gives the ick. Yet Chloe is irredeemable....

[@DragonGoddess18]

Glad you agree Cutting out Adrien out of the final battle is just terrible and unfair to him

[@asheclips3784]

Do you want to know the reason as to why Chloe doesn’t have a redemption? That is because Chloe is a representation of the Thomas’s bully. He depicted his own bully as Chloe and decided to drag her through dirt because of a personal grudge. That’s why, even if she had a chance to change up until the end of season two, Thomas decided to throw that idea into the trash and turn her right back into the asshole she was in the beginning. Because of a personal grudge.

[@abby-cadabby]

It's unfortunate that it had to take 5 seasons to defeat Hawkmoth. It could've taken 3-4 (mainly 4) seasons. Instead of Chloe being the baddie in season 3's finale, Hawkmoth should've had the idea he had in Season 4's finale. It would've made more sense. Then perhaps having Master Fu losing his memories would've made more sense since he took the risk to make Ladybug the guardian. I do agree, though, that Adrien should've known about how he, along with Kagami and Felix, were sentimonsters. You'd think Felix would've said something to him about it in the 18th episode (S5).

[@ozvuchkibilla]

That would make Nathalie's situation even worse

[@ell1023]

0:01 I wish it was Ladybug, Cat Noir, Rena Rouge, Carapace, Queen Bee, and Viperion standing side to side facing off the villains

[@marthaelenabrenesorozco2953]

GOOD VIDEO, I'm glad to know how angry the world is that Adrien was left out of the final fight, I don't understand why they treat Adrien like a delicate little flower that can't stand the truth YOU'RE RIGHT, I don't think it's right that someone like Gabriel can be "redeemed" after all the damage he's caused but CHLOE isn't, the worst thing is that Tomoe and Lila will be redeemed so there's no excuse why Chloe is the only character what is evil incarnate, hopefully there is a way to save Chloe from the hands of Thomas Astruc and his hatred for a character of his creation

[@tdninternet9916]

I personally found the finale utterly disappointing. I've literally read fanfiction that was done better than this. Also the thing about Chloe is STILL annoying to this day, especially when from what I understand she's Astruc's little revenge by proxy on his own childhood bully or something.

[@Translucentmoonlight]

I didn't like that everyone thought that Gabriel was a hero and how did nobody question who monarch was? Wouldn't the police want to know to arrest him? Also Adrian definitely should've been there to fight monarch because the whole show is based around his family but he doesn't even get know about Gabriel being the villain who he was fighting this whole time. 🎬

[@Doomzdeh]

Better yet, why was Monarch at the Agreste Mansion? Why was Emilie Agreste entombed in a bio tube down there? Why was a Butterfly Garden down there? Why did Nathalie, Gabriel’s personal assistant, suddenly grow as healthy as ever after months of bed-ridden illness after this confrontation? What annoys me the most about Marinette lying about Gabriel being a hero is how little it makes sense. So many things should reveal who Monarch was, and yet the epilogue completely glosses over all of it. I really hope that Adrien finds this underground lair (Ladybug couldn’t have destroyed it completely) and finds his mom, realizes the truth, and rebels against everyone who hid it from him. Unfortunately, even that wouldn’t make this show good. And I’ve given up hoping by now that Adrien will ever be an actual deuteragonist in this show, as the writing team bills him.

[@Translucentmoonlight]

@@Doomzdeh I have also given up on the writing on this show, I turn off my braincells before watching it lol

[@johannesseyfried7933]

The Miraculous Finale (and I *do* basically consider this the Series Finale, regardless of future seasons) really bothers me. The show was starting to slowly loose me, the longer it went on, but I was certain that at least the final confrontation with Monarch would be cool. I mean, it just had to be. And, yeah, Ladybug's fight against Monarch was pretty cool with how freely they were able to use their superpowers....but that's about it. The thing that this episode is missing is Cat Noir. Leaving him out is not just annoying to me as a Fan of the Show, but it doesn't make sense from a writing perspective either! The Main Antagonist is his father. His reason to terrorize Paris is Adrien's mother. Sure, Marinette might be looking up to Gabe as a Designer, but she doesn't have the same connection that Adrien has. So, to not just leave Cat Noir out of the final confrontation but keep him in the dark about Monarch's true identity....that's just not right! On Tumblr, a Miraculous Fan once asked a question: Whats actually the point of making Adrien a Sentimonster? Adrien does what his father tells him to do, rarely has the bravery to stand up against him and acts like a good, obedient son. Are these the all too realistic signs of an emotionally neglected child that had a certain type of behavior instilled in him from a young age by his controlling father? No, clearly Adrien behaves like this because he is really a creature of magic that his father can literally mind control! 😒 Because if he wasn't controlled, surely he would lash out more and protest. Yeah, that doesn't sound at all disrespectful to people with troubled homelife. No, but what I am getting at here is: What's the point of making Adrien anything other than a normal boy? His father is the Supervillain he has been fighting all this time! His mother has been stuck comatose in a cryopod, looking like the world's most dedicated Nora Fries Cosplayer. Making him a Sentimonster doesn't do anything for Adrien. It is simply yet *another* traumatizing secret that he will eventually learn and be sad about for....maybe two episodes? IF Adrien learns about it at all, that is. Which brings me to a very similar question: What was the point of making Hawkmoth Gabriel Agreste?! Adrien never finds out about the evil deeds of his father, about how he worked together with Kagami's mother to terrorize Paris and enslave the world's population. He doesn't find out what happened to his mother (yet Felix does, for some reason), he doesn't get to fight Hawkmoth or at least gets to say goodbye to his father before he sacrifices himself.... Really, Hawkmoth could have been a random french Hobo, corrupted by the power of the Butterfly Miraculous for all that it mattered! And now, it's over. The chance to give Adrien development, to let him in on some of the secrets everyone keeps from him....that chance's gone. Nobody will care if Adrien finds out about his father in a future season. By then, it's too late. The perfect chance was in this volume and they blew it! Maybe Adrien is like Azathot, the blind Demon Sultan from Lovecraft. The moment he realizes what is happening around him, all of existence will end, because he has been dreaming it all along.

[@prettyadore1838]

Adrien is constantly told to live his own life by everyone else such as Marinette in the finale but no one ever gives him the option to do so cause they constantly gaslight him and block out his own decisions

[@gruiaolaru511]

Well, considering that whole soul scene with Gabriel and Emilie, I want to believe that he accepted her death and went together with her, so the person showed at the end with Natalie was actually Amelie, and a poor atempt at messing with the audience's head until the next season drops.

[@kamilslup7743]

yeah, emelie and amelie look nearly identical, same with felix and adrien (when it helps with felix's goals)

[@WerWer-gz5kk]

Her character model js labeled Emily, so its not Amelie.

[@Doomzdeh]

Issues with it: - Chat Noir is not involved in an epic final fight between Ladybug, his love interest, and Monarch, his father. What was even the point of him standing up to Gabe this season? What was the point of him even existing? Season 4’s Finale implied that Chat Noir would be less side-lined, but instead he is cut out of the final arc completely. Better take his name out of the title. - Despite informing Marinette of Monarch’s identity in the previous episode, neither Felix or Kagami get involved in the final fight. Kagami had an excuse due to being locked up without a miraculous, but what of Felix? Where is he? - The akumatized villain is generic, had almost no bearing on the story, and was heavily generic. Just there for a bunch of side character to fight mindlessly as the real action took a break from the screen. Not engaging at all. - Despite showing us Su-Han and Luka, both trained Guardians of the Miraculous, neither plays any role in the final fight or the events that follow. What was even the point of the Guardians plotline? - Yet again, despite the Sentimonster plotline having set up the entire main conflict and having gotten Felix involved in this season and in Season 4, it gets little to no mention or payoff. Adrien, Kagami, and Felix have no involvement with Gabe’s defeat. Madame Tsurugi also has no involvement. And Audrey’s implied involvement in it all is also trashed. Thanks writers. - Marinette doesn’t go to confront Gabriel because she was told that he was Monarch. No, instead she goes for Adrien. Ridiculous. Why even have the reveal in the previous episode if it motivates nothing? And they just get to it after that, with Marinette fighting Gabe. It kinda feels forced because, yet again, Chat Noir is nowhere in sight, and neither is Argos. Marinette’s tension with Gabe is largely secondary to the main plot and Gabe barely knows her at all. Bad writing. - Nathalie’s big stand against Gabe ends with her stupidly allowing him to get closer, transform, and smack the crossbow out of her hands. She doesn’t even get to appear after his defeat to say anything at all. Doesn’t get consequences for being Mayura either. Love it… - Lila is suddenly a hacking whiz and manages to track where the main fight is happening. After that, she shows up, luckily Marinette and Gabe are already in the basement. She then climbs down, doesn’t fall to death, manages to avoid being seen by Marinette or Gabe, grabs the Butterfly Miraculous after it falls where no one could see it, and gets out of there without making any noise or being seen. Yeah. I totally love how natural it all seemed. And I love that she’s just going to be a weaker version of Monarch, as her character legit makes no sense and has no depth or known motivation for her actions. Could’ve at least given her a different miraculous to play with, like maybe the Rooster or the Fox as well. - Marinette detransforms at the cusp of the fight between her and Gabe for no reason other than to try persuading him to give up his evil ways, as if the show hadn’t already shown that he can’t be redeemed just as others couldn’t. He then takes advantage of her stupidity and makes his wish after a half-hearted and rushed redemption due to chiding by his son and nephew…oh wait, they aren’t there. It’s his son’s girlfriend whom he’s hardly met. Silly me. - Ladybug doesn’t tell Chat Noir who Monarch was and allows Monarch to be seen as a hero to all of Paris after his death. Adrien even hero worships him. Yeah, love the lesson that lying is a good thing here and that people don’t deserve to know the truth if it’s hurtful. - We don’t even get to see what the effects of the wish were or what the wish was. Did Gabe only fix Nathalie? Did he revive Emilie too? If so, did he pay for the wish with more than his own life? We get no answers here, even in the epilogue. - The epilogue was dumb and stuffed with unimportant idiocy. Ms Bustier is now mayor; glad that my absolute favorite character took up the entire epilogue. We also get pointless slice of life with a bunch of other “important characters”. No important emotional depth though, even as the nightmare of Monarch is finally over or as Gabriel Agreste legit died. Great work again, writers. This is the worst episode of Miraculous ever written. There is no competition. I hate how much people are forgiving it simply because the fight between Marinette and Gabe was well-choreographed. I think my least favorite parts are that Adrien never finds out that Gabriel was Monarch and that Gabriel never finds out that Adrien was Chat Noir. Heck, even Marinette doesn’t learn that Adrien is Chat Noir. Neither does Felix. Glad we spent 5 painful seasons on this one arc just so that none of it would be resolved.

[@wendyboles5960]

Unfair as this seems: it gives a villain arc for AdriCat. Sad part? We got to see AdriCat suffer all the seasons to give a valid reason to go rouge and find another love intrest. Give him Luka or Iris/ Lilia. In this World? I feel that Luknette is the end game!

[@irmalair9861]

I agree with these points. Adrien not being there for the final fight and not finding out anything is really messed up. And Gabe being redeemed and seen as a hero just frustrates the heck out of me🤦‍♀

[@ThePreciseClimber]

18:55 "If you don't have a plan for your story or at least a very general outline, then continuity and other things fall apart." True dat. George R.R. Martin learned this lesson the hard way. Winds of Winter coming never. It feels like something that TV shows still struggle with a lot. And, sure - there are things outside the writers' control. A show could get cancelled. The higher-ups could meddle with the script. Stuff like that. But you really shouldn't get anywhere close TV show production unless you're willing to create long-term plans. Take Dexter, for example. You look at the show overall, all 8 seasons, and it's a mess. Dexter's brother dies too early, Dexter's victims in the bay are found too early, Doakes dies too early, Debra learns the truth too late and, in general, the show just meanders a lot. There's no grand plan. All because they wrote the seasons one by one without thinking ahead. And then take Avatar: The Last Airbender. Sure, they didn't plan everything out. E.g. Toph was supposed to be a dude and there could've been a love triangle between "him," Katara and Aang. But the writers did know the show was gonna be 3 seasons. So a general outline with Aang learning the bending styles, Zuko redeeming himself and Ozai being the final boss was conceived. And, for the most part, it worked really well. tl;dr The number of seasons and the most important events in each season should be set in stone before the show is even PITCHED.

[@secretsuperstars1153]

I swear to God if Lila gets redeemed in the future, I’m driving my Leclerc tank to the miraculous studio and blowing up and destroying the whole studio

[@felicedotgif]

new alou video yessirrrrr edit: 🎬 the fact that Cat Noir, the one who is supposed to be connected to the villain ala Darth Vader style ain't even in the finale of Gabriel's demise, and is just trapped inside some room already says a lot about this show this season irritates me the most, cuz not only did they give the most unsatisfying ending to this whole saga they created with and not even include Cat Noir they also bastardized Chloe as well, which is not surprising considering she did get replaced by miss forgettable nice girl

[@x_izuki_x69]

10:16 the fact that I forgot about him despite the fact that he was literally the character I loved the most along with Plagg ,the character that I was mad when they were wasting him and turning him into....whatever happend with him in season 4, the character that was one of the reasons for why I loved one of the characters from the other show and YET I didnt notice that and assumed that this is something related to after I dropped the show really says something ;___;

[@Arlecchino.6102]

Same lol

[@darriongeorge5137]

tbh, marinette traumatic story just felt like a way for them to justify her behaviour and even kim as strangeas he is still felt a bit out of character, even calling chloe the prettiest girl after everything she did infront of his own girlfriend

[@natasakisun6760]

I remember watching the season finally on discord with friends and the amount of anger I felt of the zero accountability for Gabriel's actions cause of the wish he made and at the end was praised. And you would think for the final season Garibel and Adriens relationship would've been explored more, an emotional scene that would've developed more of Adrien's independence, or something similar to Chat blanc parallel but somthing different happening maybe also having marinette grow from that experience. And most importantly some DEEP ANGST dialogue between Chat noir/Adrien and Hawkmoth/Gabriel, and fight scenes between the twoooooooo. NAHHHHH LET MAKE THIS WHOLE THING BUT JUST ladybug + extras we seen once or twice.

[@SKStar-zf3vn]

16:31 I literally just told my sister the same thing😅 Also, not only was Adrien not part of the final fight HE WASN'T EVEN IN THE SAME COUNTRY and This would have all been fixed if Gabriel just didn't use the nightmare dust (I don't care what it's called) on Adrien. In fact, with the way his plan was formed, it looked like that was Gabriel's intention. Why else would you need to keep him locked in a room?

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

If you think about it Adrien is a tragic character everything about him is a tragedy from his backstory to his realionships to his entire life and to the even treatment he get as a character Adrien is tragic character but was never seen as one His life and story is a tragedy that should have never been told or a better to say it his story is a tragedy that should have been told better

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

Alou in the comments many people already mentioned the obvious problems but I will talk about a different and a more disturbing problem here and it is how miraculous romanticises abusive realionships and victimises its abusers which teaches a really bad message to kids I will explain and I hope you read my comment First in the finale Andre was potrayed as the victim and chloe and audrey the abusers despite him being an awful and one of the reasons chloe turned out like this Second Marinette basically got rewarded for stalking Adrian and doung literal crimes instead of being called out She got what she wanted unlike catnoir who didn't succeed in havung a romantic realionship with ladybug He actually got consequences for him SAing her but Marinette didn't she literally got rewarded Like Adrien literally admires her Third and the worst realionship of all is Gabriel and adrien 's Putting aside the fact adrien did participate in the final fight or that ge got lied to by his COUSIN AND GIRLFRIEND that his father is a hero Adrian now literally WORSHIPS his abuser who took his freedom away who abused him emotionally, mentally and physically( in chatblanc) Not only that he also aspires to BE like him and sees him like a hero like wow This is actually disturbing and disgusting Marinette is not just a horribly written character and protagonist but also a horrible oerson for just the fact she lied to adrien and the whole world about what type of a man Gabriel really is The fact she even did this just makes ne wonder how is she even a role model I am honestly disturbed by her

[@purpledshadow]

Not to mention the fact that some fans try to justify Marinette stalking Adrien with her backstory episode (I never watched her backstory episode but I know it doesn’t justify stalking) or something related to her backstory.

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

@@purpledshadow Okay done do that but the most annoying excuse is when they say she isn't legally a stalker and she isn't a criminal Like what? I had to do a whole research to convince them of that she is legally a stalker and in the end they ignored my point😭😭 Stalking shouldn't be excused but explained and I myself can like characters that stalk (not as people of course) I like a character called yul he stalked and did horrible things but in the end he didn't get rewarded for it and he is well written However Marinette 's backstory is too late and it doesn't really explain her stalking Actually the backstory is inconsistent and a horrible potrayal of trauma and ptsd The backstory is just that bad with no foreshadowing and it name Marinette 's character much worse and more inconsistent than it already is

[@parycartoons6840]

We can't have Chloe redemption because she was created to be like Astruck's ex wife (yes, this was actually confirmed) and he got butthurt that anyone actually liked her so he had to doubled down making her way crueler than she ever was. Which is beyond creepy because fictional or not, this grown man is projection his feelings about the woman he slept with onto a 14 year old.

[@hangezoe7472]

I thought chloe was inspired from his ex-bully/ex-girlfriend. However, he made an excuse that he didn’t mean that a few months ago while the fact we saw his old tweet about how Chloe was inspired from his ex-bully on twitter five years ago (which probably had been removed lol)

[@PancakeRights]

Please rate this AU aswell Adrien and Plagg were upstairs, the usual boring scenery, in the boy's bedroom. Plagg tried to cheer up Adrien. " There, there, kid..." Plagg cheered him up as he hugged his face. Adrien hugged his black kwami back. At the end of the day, Adrien only had one friend who he could truly share everything with. He had been grounded as a punishment by his father, because he had been missing his fencing classes; unbeknownst to his father that he was Cat Noir. Adrien didn't have the guts to stand up for himself and tell his father that he doesn't have any interest in fencing and he can't be forced against his will, otherwise his father would remove him from public school... He sighed and collapsed onto his bed, angry at this predicament. His father... a monster. What kind of a parent forces their child into so many activities and what child has to juggle school, work and extracurricular activities all at the same time, that too at just 14 years old? What parent grounds their children just because they want to leave a certain hobby? If only his father knew how he felt... If only his father knew he was Cat Noir. All of a sudden, the shy boy got up from his bed. "Plagg, claws out!" With that, Plagg disappeared into his ring and a black light covered the boy as he transformed. Once powered up, he leaped out of the window. He was determined to stop his father from controlling him and wanted to be free from this controlling, abusive freak, once and for all. He spied on his father through the window of the ground floor of the Agreste mansion and could not believe his eyes at what he saw. His father... hid stuff behind the painting of his mum? What the- but his thoughts were interrupted as his father began going upstairs. Adrien knew, if his dad found out he was gone, he couldn't be Cat Noir forever and this time he'd be in real trouble. He leaped on his staff in rush and panic and got into his bedroom just in the nick of time. Rolling towards the side of the bed, he commanded "Plagg, claws in!" detransforming and getting up just as his father came inside the room. Adrien had no feelings. Neither did his father by the look of his face. But Adrien was in for another shock as the man embraced him, pulling him into a tight hug. He smiled and embraced his father back. For a moment, father and son bonded as they embraced eachother and stood in eachothers' arms, for a good minute before seperating. Gabriel held Adrien's hand, one one end Adrien, for once in his life was feeling comforted by his father as he noticed his smile turning into an evil grin as Gabriel began to pull him out of his room and down the stairs... "Father, what is-" "Silence, young man! Adrien, this is for your own good. I love you too much to let you stay in Paris with all those horrible influences at school. We're going to London and you'll be going to private school with Felix!" He was as good as his word. The packing was ready and Adrien was resisting. He was ready and felt unstoppable. He would tell the police and his school, finally putting an end to his father and his endless trying to control his life... But there was something... Something very strong that stopped him... Always... He had no idea he was a monster of feelings, controlled by a ring... Nathalie looked firmly at Adrien and nodded her head, rubbing her ring. Adrien felt obliged to comply as he looked down in sorrow and shame. In London, Kagami had arrived. The whole world knew one thing: that Adrien Agreste and Kagami Tsurugi were icons... For gods' sake... Adrien didn't want any of this drama... He just wanted to be a normal boy and love Marinette... Everyone has the right to love and be with who they want... And yet, after all, he was a monster of feelings. In solitary confinement, imprisoned and abused by his own father and a woman who he thought of as his mother, he started piecing things together one by one. Hmmm. " My father is a secretive man. He hides things. I feel like I'm under someone's control literally instead of being my own person. When did this all start? Oh... No... This all started... The same time he and Ladybug showed up which meant... No... It wasn't possible. Adrien would NEVER believe it. Not without proof... Even if all the proof was there in front of his eyes, now that he was alone and thinking about it... Otherwise why would his father hide things and isolate? And the timeline... It matched so perfectly? It explained why Adrien had no control over himself... Adrien struck a triumphant look and nodded at Plagg. Plagg went through the camera and disabled it. Adrien transformed into Astro Cat. Astro Cat flew across the sea and back to Paris, it was a long voyage but he had clearly thought up his plan and he knew exactly what he would do... But upon arriving in Paris he was absolutely shocked. He hid himself in an alleyway so as to spy on what was going on without being noticed. "We want to find Kagami and Adrien! Set them free! We will capture Ladybug and Cat Noir; who are kidnappers, not heroes!" He let out a big gasp... These white robots? They didn't seem like akumatised villains, this was something else entirely... Then he noticed something, the alliance ring on each of their fingers. He gasped suddenly, in another realisation. All evidence was pointing towards... No! Adrien knew the truth and could never deny it but insisted on doing so anyway. Amongst all this hue and cry, he took a route through the sewers and slipped unnoticed into the Agreste mansion. Unbeknownst to him, he had fallen into a trap. Monarch had advanced technology and now not only Ladybug, but Cat Noir's footprint had been detected... The boy ran into the living room and detransformed. This thwarted the technology as it could only sense Cat Noir. Plagg went into and out of the safe, unlocking it... Both Plagg and Adrien had their jaws left open as soon as they saw what was inside... A book, an ancient, stolen book. Plagg flipped through the pages as Adrien gazed in horror at the peacock brooch. Plagg and Adrien looked at eachother in fear and gulped simultaneously. In tears, Adrien finally accepted the truth... " This is where Monarch lives. " Before anything further could be said, there was a loud noise and sound of a crash. Adrien hid and went out to see what was going on. It was another blind shock for the boy to see Ladybug fighting Monarch. " Hand me your miraculous, Marinette and I won't hurt you or my son. But I will revive my wife, Emilie and nobody will stop me from doing that..." Adrien panted as he was running out of ideas and revelation after revelation was stunning the boy and leaving him in tears. He finally transformed and leaped on his staff. "Cataclysm!" Cat Noir yelled, just as Monarch seized the Ladybug from a tired, injured Marinette. All fell down, deel inside the Agreste mansion... as Cat Noir extended his staff and caught Marinette, as well as seized the Ladybug earrings before Monarch had the chance to grab them again. But he had given himself a difficulty by transforming into his superhero counterpart as now, those same robots came after him in large numbers. He knew what to do as he took Marinette and leaped up, back to safety. Leaving a confused Marinette, he ran off to Nathalie's bedroom, only to find the woman he considered to be his mother lying lifeless, her hair completely white... She uttered her last words... "Detransform... I used the peacock miraculous when it was broken... Nothing will save me..." With that, she collapsed. Cat Noir hid behind the bed as he attached the Ladybug earrings and released Tikki. "Claws in!" The technology system of this so called Monarch was once again thwarted, but he was determined to look for his victim. Today was the day, he would make his wish and nobody could stop him. " Oh, Cat Noir! Kitty, kitty, come here!" Monarch sang, giggling as he entered Nathalie's room. As he entered, Adrien slipped Nathalie's ring from his fingers and wore it himself. " I found you!" Monarch triumphantly scowled, pulling out his victim by the leg. Adrien looked back with a smirk... "Adrien Agreste?" " NO! TIKKI, PLAGG, UNIFY!" A red and black light outshone the boy as he transformed, kicking Monarch's face and somersaulting in the air. He struck a final pose. His braids, green and black spots, as well as red spandex glowed and he looked as stunning as he was feeling. Nobody could control him now. "Call me BUG NOIR!" Gabriel and Marinette watched on as the battle commenced, with Marinette in shock now knowing who Cat Noir is...

[@aa1zz428]

I was thinking maybe the wish was to just undo the doings of the peacock miraculous? That way both Natalie and Emilie are saved. But, maybe that caused the butterfly miraculous to become hazardous and due to that all the effects of the peacock are put onto Gabriel as he's the only one alive who's been using the Butterfly miraculous, and maybe that's what that last scene with Lila was all about? Cause, maybe she's about to start using a damaged miraculous?

[@neerajoshi5473]

Emily coming back is treated as an afterthought. We don’t even see her come back the entire show we are told bringing back Emily is important to Gabriel we don’t see her reunion with her son. We don’t see her come back to life she’s just there. She doesn’t even speak a word. This finale just proves that she was never important in the first place. The entire show is just a waste of time now.

[@JyunJyunie.00]

Miraculous ladybug is one examples of a show with a good concept/ plot thrown into waste. It does not justify it just because it's a kid show, doesn't mean it will be bad, there are so many kid shows with really good plot, foreshadowing and ACTUAL development in their charas, eg. Owl's house, steven universe. Each episode has a connection and affects the plot, but they just made the show spongebob style where actions of one episode doesn't even explore in future episode??? Like what's even the point, like say for example, the build up of the relationship between Adrian and Gabriel, gabriel which is largely focused the the finale, adrian SHOULD be and DESERVE to be in the finale because, obviously, he is Gabriel's son, what's even the point of Gabriel realizing that he should take care of his son more and doubting his actions but we didn't even get to explore that and Adrien didn't even get to know all of that despite all of the abuse and mistreatment and instead he's made to think he's a hero which is bull. What's the point of adrian being the son of hawkmoth, we can just choose any people at this point to be hawkmoths son cus it doesn't even affect the plot, like. it's just there. I have so many points to painfully discuss because asstruc has poor writing that even a kid can write better, it's best to stop here. (Random thought, what if bunnix interferes with the past and like just snatch the miraculous from lila, i get that bunnix doesn't know the identity of new hawkmoth, but she can easily know that by reversing time, similar to what happen at chat blanc which has no consequence whatsoever. I get the point that tampering with time can have consequences but it has happened COUNTLESS TIMES by now, amd I don't see any notable "consequences" the only reason bunnix would even go and tamoer the past is that something dangerous or important that needs to be done but isn't lila getting the miraculous important and dangerous? If they worry about the consequences then why don't they make similar what they did to chat blanc, open the lucky charm, go bck time, get the butterfly miraculous then bam, ladybug does her miraculous and everythings find. Season ends. The END. jk, but tbh bunnix can change or end the show tbh because that's how powerful her miraculous is, if she goes bck time and stop hawkoth, the show can end anytime, easy win. No need to drag it out, which is what the show exactly did, i get it from money perspective but damn at least have good writing. But of course all the characters had to be dum and oblivious, so see yall next 10 seasons where hawkmoth gets defeated, have a redemption arc last seconds , and hopefully have the actual reveal 💀

[@sullymcfugly6803]

I’m so done with Miraculous right now. At the start of season 5 everyone was excited to see how this season would play out. Some people dropped the show entirely because they couldn’t keep watching and waiting to see if this show will finally get better, because it never did Characters have so much potential to be great and plot lines that could take them there, but it’s like the writers either don’t know how to make that happen or want to make the story longer by making nothing happen for 80% of the show. The Finale is a disappointment for MANY REASONS , Luka was wasted potential, Chloe is a dead horse, and Lila makes NO SENSE as a character.

[@Eclipse-mf6hc]

Funnily enough, Adrien would find out that his dad was Hawk Moth the moment he transforms and checks the voice messages from Ladybug; because doesn’t Ladybug send Chat a voice message revealing Hawk Moth’s identity in part 1 of the finale? Or at least, surely Plagg would tell him about his dad? Ik there’s a rule preventing Kwamis revealing their owner’s (and the guardian’s, I think) identity, but I don’t think that would apply to a different user?

[@Ro994]

🎬 I can always count on you for some good Miraculous salt, my friend. 😜 But in all seriousness, I've watched a LOT of critique videos of this trainwreck of a finale ever since it came out, and this video pretty much covers and summarizes my biggest gripes with it. I think we all universally agree that Adrien being entirely shoved to the side, and Gabriel getting his poorly written and literal last-second "redemption" while Chloé got completely demonized, is just ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

[@Vigriff]

If Season 6 does come around, then I can only pray that Astruc doesn't return.

[@Name-d2t]

He is still involved in future seasons and even has more power on the show now

[@ralunix4612]

Answer: 1. It lies to me making it look as if the others will be important. 2. The others make the others fight against faceless randoms. 3. Where is Chat Noir? 4. Looks ugly af. :>

[@mrghost3272]

6:54 about Chloe, I assume what happened was, she would've gotten a redemption arc. Fans started theorizing the redemption arc, Thomas being a weird "I'm smarter than you!" Kind of guy changed it. So the theorists wouldn't be right. His attitude afterwards would explain it

[@ozvuchkibilla]

He didn't change the sentimonster thing

[@mrghost3272]

@@ozvuchkibilla yeah that's what's strange about it-

[@secretsuperstars1153]

just because it’s a kids animation, that does not give it the excuse for bad writing especially when we have shows like spectacular, Spider-Man Batman, the animated series, Ben 10, teen, titans samurai Jack, and avatar, the last Airbender i’m comparing miraculous to flash because it feels like they’re written by the same people by idiots. miraculous writers might be more stupid than the CW writers at this point.

[@trentonbuchert7342]

Miraculous really is one of those concepts where you can clearly see what it COULD have been, but the potential is squandered by poor execution.

[@ladypool1404]

So... the message is if your an abusive parent who is completely crazy, you'll be remembered as a hero? That makes no sense! Also, making ONE good action in your life is not enough to erase the hundred bad ones you did. That's what happened with Gabriel. He akumatized his son twice, turns citizens into villains, never spend time with Adrien untill he was cataclysmed which is really selfish. He puts him in a room with no windows for his '' own good '' too which was cruel. I am supposed to think he changed and is a good person after all the horrible things he did? Nope, i don't believe it ☹

[@MarinetteWinters]

The way Chloe became more horrible and the way they explained Marinette's stalking/obsessive behavior was so forced. It felt like Thomas was yelling at viewers through the screen "SEE! SEE! CHLOE IS BAD! MARINETTE GOOD!" I miss the old days when the show felt like a show instead of an angry mans tweets come to life. (I love Chloe and Marinette btw, I just hate their writing)

[@Orkprof]

🎬 This finale had SO many problems... the biggest one was indeed the total exclusion of Adrien from ANY possible role. He's even less than the proverbial damsel in distress, who at least waits at the tower window occasionally yelling for the hero's name. He just lies down sobbing and goes to sleep. I hate how lots of people dismiss this as "it was necesary to PROTECT him from the truth". Excuse me? One of the two protagonists as a chance to face a hard truth and GROW because of this, and we toss this chance into the toilet? Why doesn't HE get to decide about this? About his own life? It'd be acceptable if the Big Bad's son were some tertiary character, maybe... but the protagonist? Gabriel's redemption does indeed happen too fast and he gets away with what he's done SO easily. 7:55 - Don't worry about not remembering the rules correctly: they've never been consistent! What was said in "Ephemeral" contradicts in part what was said in other epsiodes or the finale about keeping the balance. I'm still not sure whether the one we see in the epilogue is Emilie or Amelie. If it's Emilie, then Gab's life was given up to resurrect her, but who died (or fell terminally ill) to save Nathalie? And why have the heroes fought so hard till now, if Gab got what he wanted and there seem to be NO dire consequences whatsoever? They could've given him the two main miraculouses in S1 and sacrifice the life of - say - some remorseless criminal who had done unspeakable, unforgivable things.

[@prettyadore1838]

Adrien isn't in the finale despite this being all about his family. How do you mess up so badly 😫 😢

[@faith-kj4pg]

I saw a Tumblr post where they said "Keeping the truth about Gabriel from Adrien is like keeping Truman in the Truman Show" And I never been the same since.

[@hangezoe7472]

At least Truman can find the truth and move on from his life while Adrien didn’t give any chance to know about truth bcs saint uwu maribug was told by gabe to hide the truth. Won’t be surprised if he knows about that, he’s gonna kill her (alt. It wouldn’t be happened)

[@sersiniokyte5558]

​@@hangezoe7472 I don't mind him go full villainy. But yeah, won't happen.

[@bubblegumbitch1465]

Honestly the whole sentimonster plot twist makes me so mad. It’s so obvious that the writers took it from the fandom like they do everything else. Whenever people complain or make popular aus they always steal it for fan service. Makes me so upset they just took this plot point because they could

[@low-kywhynot2216]

I stopped being mad at the fact that adrien gets wasted and Marinette get special treatment cuz Thomas astur once in a tweet that he based mari off the daughter he wished he could have whit his ex(wich is.... weird but this man has a "history" of basing characters of real people he knows) like Chloe and Luka Edit: He also said something about planing more 12 seasons so i guess this show ain't ending in this lifetime

[@delphoxhoopa7289]

12?! Dear gosh....😰

[@purpledshadow]

12 more seasons is crazy.💀

[@cycymaca]

Wait you're telling me this man is trying to make 12 seasons? We're in the apocalypse era.

[@low-kywhynot2216]

@@cycymaca yep we probably won't be around to see tge actual finally lol

[@dust.runner]

On redemption: I also feel that people deserve a second chance, and that doing bad things doesn't necessarily mean you are incapable of good or change. I think this can be a very powerful message to include in a story. But getting a second chance, or even being 'forgiven' by people you have hurt, does not entitle you to relationships with the people you hurt, or access to power or positions of power. When a narrative simplifies a redemption to 'one good action' then we get this idea that that good action made up for all the bad ones. A lot of times a 'sacrifice' that turns a villain into a hero is used this way, but writing a scenario like this requires a lot of care because treating a villain as a hero after a heroic death can send the message that the harm caused is erased, or that it isn't normal to have complicated feelings about people (and people who have died) Adrien would have realistically had a lot of complex emotions about Gabriel even without knowing he was Hawkmoth... he had been absent, controlling, and cold as a father to the point of manipulating Adrien even without the villain stuff. Learning that Gabriel was Hawkmoth, and then that his whole reason for being Hawkmoth was to save their lost loved one, and then Gabriel dying? That's a lot, you know? I think this level of a character having many layers of emotions and thoughts and reactions to an event is unlikely for the show to write well, but whatever..

[@TrickiTrickstars]

Something about Thomas's tweets is making me think He has alot more planned for Gabriel cuz he keeps responding to people who are saying it's a redemption or the show trying to make him sympathetic with "it's a lie" :')

[@TrickiTrickstars]

My dude what tf do you have planned :'))

[@kamilslup7743]

@@TrickiTrickstars something absolutely insane that will blow your mind : )))

[@FeyPhantom]

If Gabriel somehow survived and comes back... it *might* shed a little less agony on what this finale was, but I'm not holding my breath. It wouldn't redeem the finale though, just make it slightly less painful to think about (still painful though).

[@nobody2996]

@@FeyPhantom I don't think Gabe survived, but remember that this season introduced that Miraculous Holders can speak to past holders, so easy cameo material there.

[@FeyPhantom]

@@nobody2996 True. But if that's how they have any closure with Adrien towards his dad, it won't make up for anything xD

[@kurisuchiinu1206]

This is why I prefer the movie version. I like Zag's version and ending better because Gabriel did care for his son in the movie. Not to mention that LadyNoir is indeed stronger together, not just LB alone.

[@DeceptiveZer0YT]

At this point if Adrien not knowing is a plan for something bigger than at the very least give Cat noir a proper villain arc and have a civil war arc between the entire team where there are heroes that side with Cat noir and heroes that side with Ladybug, that way there can be proper development between the team with the resolution strengthening the bond of the team as well as fully wrapping up the whole arc of cat noir being completely sidelined and having it actually mean something, either the writers are going to do this because they’re backed in a corner or they’re not going to do it at all which is just bad writing.

[@kamenweirdo9276]

I feel the part of the ending where there 18 heroes in Paris cool since they be divided into groups compared to them all fighting the new Hawkmoth which may get boring unless for some reason the villains have way to become strong enough to fight them all.

[@elnarwhal5677]

After hearing the bug noir part, I just want to say, I prefer the way Sabrina used the combination of cataclysm and lucky charm together when akumatized. Sure, she was leaning into the “giant weapon bootleg lucky charm” but she infused them with cataclysm to create even more unique weapons like the blow dryer.

[@sourtaffyy]

Thanks for making this!Also,the answer is no Cat Noir,and from what I know from Cyrus and you aswell, Chloe was literally wasted a BUNCH,like she had a redemption arc that couldve made her one of the BEST characters of ladybug and the fact that she was depicted as a horrible person more than Gabriel is just ridiculous considering how hes been a Villian in seasons before her redemption....and it was all because Thomas didnt like Chloe...... Adrien is also a sort of useless character,he couldve had so much good potential,he was abandoned,his father is the Villain....Adrien was such a interesting character but was wasted for the dumb plot.... The fact that Marinette revealed her identity to everyone else but Adrien was left out for some reason is so unacceptable and so dumb.... Miraculous Ladybug is a weird show with wasted potential on some charcaters and rushed new heroes just because.....I dont know I havent watched it but I hope there is a good reason... This show is so weird in a way...Like Marinette acts so damn weird and the fact that it was depicted as cute is so disgusting and mildly disturbing....its a weird show overall and its fandom....I dont have beef with it...its just the show that bugs me a bunch...

[@nicolas._.2294]

Adrien was CA, butched and leaved to die by the writers Same with Chleo And what's worse is that Adrien was the 2nd protagonist and also his NAME is in the show name (Chat/Cat noir)

[@sourtaffyy]

@@nicolas._.2294 I know right???What wasted characters....

[@kamilslup7743]

all the heroes were forced into existence just for every single miraculous to be used in the season 4 finale (literally 4 new heroes in a single episode: "Penalteam")

[@sourtaffyy]

@@kamilslup7743 so....their wasn't any good reason to get new heroes??.....it was just a plot device??.....

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

I mean the fact Marinette lied to Adrien and the whole world about Gabriel as a person is just disturbing and disgusting And the fact kagami , felix and kagami 's mother , emeille and Nathalie were okay with it is also disturbing

[@boomprower]

The only reason chole is depicted this bad is because the creator thomas the choo choo train deeply hates her and goes on Twitter to announce how much he hates her.

[@byrontheusurper6505]

I don't think it matters that they got replaced by copies, yeah, it's a bit existentially fucked up for them, but since they're essentially the same people I think "the characters we got to know are gone" is a huge overstatement

[@masteroflag]

He didn’t bring back Emile. That’s her twin sister. He brought back Natalie as thomas has denied definitively saying she’s Emile and changes from the leaks show this to be the case to both be more consistent and have Gabe trade his immortal soul for fixing the damage he did to Natalie makes some sense

[@VulphenSky]

I think his wish was him not meeting Emilie (since if it wasn't for him, neither Emilie nor Nathalie would've died). But since Adrien still exists, he might've added something else like "Emilie finds the peacock miraculous (but isn't broken like the original) and creates Adrien." Just a wild guess but the first part makes sense since we don't see anyone grieving about Gabriel's death and everyone enjoys their life.

[@HipThrustKing]

From what I understood, the wish Gabe made was to simply be with Emilie. What he gave up to do that was his own life. Meaning that he was reunited with his wife in death, and not that Emilie was brought back to life. The woman at the end of the episode, I thought, was Amelie, and as for Natalie, idfk what happened with her. As for Adrien, it's kind of wrong for Marinette to withhold information about his father based solely on that fact that "its his father's last wish." Honestly, screw Gabe because he was never a good father and was trash all throughout this show, and he does not deserve the respect of honoring his kast request. Adrien, on the other hand, is more than deserving to know the truth. He may not like it, but I guarantee he'll like it a lot less should the into be willingly hidden from him. In that regard, he's going to be upset, but at the very least, he shouldn't be ANYMORE DISRESPECTED THAN HE ALREADY HAS BEEN. Lol

[@dumbstudios9713]

12:39 We all know the right answer. But I think my new headcanon's gonna be that Marinette can just NOT keep such a big secret to herself, and that she's just a huge hypocrite that says "well- I- I'm the leader! Screw off, Cat!" whenever he asks about why he can't tell trusted people in his circle. And this is why Cat Noir/Adrien isn't in the finale! Because he decided he needed a bit of a break from that treatment.

[@empirestate8791]

I think a lot of Miraculous was made up on the fly. They planned out a few high-level things, but a lot of the important subplots were introduced very late, and I feel that the writers didn't know what to do early on. For instance, Marinette's trauma from Kim's prank, Zoe's introduction, and the whole introduction of Felix should have been hinted at long ago. Even Lila seems to have been shoehorned into the show, as she disappeared after the end of season 1 but reappeared like 40 episodes later.