Yoram Hazony with Patrick Deneen | After Liberalism | NatConTalk

NatConTalk Episode 3: On this episode of NatConTalk, Yoram Hazony interviews Patrick Deneen, political theorist and author of the book "Why Liberalism Failed." They discuss the end of liberalism, Catholicism in America, the constitution vs. natural law, and what Patrick thinks of Amy Coney Barrett.
NatConTalk is produced by the Edmund Burke Foundation and White House Writers Group. You can find out more about EBF's national conservatism project at nationalconservatism.org.
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National Conservatism Website - nationalconservatism.org/
NatConTalk Twitter - Twitter.com/NatConTalk
Yoram Hazony Twitter - Twitter.com/yhazony
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Yoram's book The Virtue of Nationalism - www.amazon.com/Virtue-Nationa...

[@stephencombs4437]

Refreshing and stimulating to listen in to two deep thinkers, sometimes above the intellect of this writer whose job it is to explain classic liberalism to the common man whose ears are filled with noisy platitudes from the news and entertainment media.

[@thamill3826]

My thinking about the world gov, it seems like nations should try to cooperate to avoid war, to help countries suffering from natural disasters, that kind of thing. But that doesn’t have to be by a government higher than the nations.

[@mattstiglic]

A utopian vision for sure. Unless you can guarantee that the current wonton, evil money power that is firmly ensconced in all matters geopolitical can be somehow usurped by a benevolent aristocracy.

[@thomassimmons1950]

The negative comments prove the case here...(feels me)?

[@6u._i]

Good

[@edwardturner3112]

Very good talk overall. However, the objection to Kennedy by voters, and I remember as a child, was not simply that he was Catholic, but that the Roman Pontif has not renouced, to this day that I know of, secular authority. It is no longer practiced in the US, but it is still expected in secular governments of Latin America. It is time to stop playing the victim card here. Otherwise, let's talk about protestants being persecuted today in Chiapas. It is time to come together. It is time for American Catholics to admit how much they have become protestantized visavi Latin America. Deneen seems to value Calvinist New Englad colonies. I would like to see a solid discussion on the difference between the pluriformity of Calvinist New England and Netherlands, and the subsidiarity of a verticle integration of an official religion and secular state. This is a barely visible "elephant in the room" between Protestants and Catholics that otherwise are shoulder to should in the US.

[@whatsinaname7076]

we are connected by our respect for the environment, thus lover's of science , medicine, and conservation.

[@ramon2008]

Science ?? If anything it’s been science that’s responsible for the total destruction of the ecology worldwide. Sorry pal.

[@patrickvernon4766]

Communists have always been individualistic. This is why they first had to take over the socialist movement with big banker money. The real socialist movements were always nationalistic and patriarchal

[@edwardturner3112]

I don't agree. Today, it seems a wonder to me that so many true believers were willing to die for their vision in a Marxism of modernity. Post modern Marxism is very individualistic with little willingness to sacrifice.

[@joshua_ch]

How is this notion of natural law different from sharia ?

[@johnnydavis5896]

Different worldviews. Sharia inherently involves a theocracy in which the religious side is dominant. Natural Law, as embraced by the Founding Fathers, was a force that guided society and leaders because people chose to embrace it, and it was used to guide and restrain the state. Now the Founding Fathers' use of natural law was different than the Medieval Europe type, in which it was a theocracy. Deneen rejects the Founding Fathers and wants the Medieval version. So when you hear "Common Good" today, it largely refers to the Medieval version and rejects the Founding Fathers' version of natural law.

[@relaxingsounds1386]

Dumb.

[@patrickvernon4766]

The western notion of natural law really comes from the previous indo-European pagan traditions which first understood the notion of logos, which is a Greek pagan concept which means order of the universe and Dharma, the eternal natural way, which seeks to understand the dichotomy between essence and existence. This was incorporated into Catholicism through Thomas Aquinas and thus a tradition still carried forward. I know Islam has philosophical tradition incorporating Aristotle but I am not familiar with Islam. What does Islam say about natural law?

[@edwardturner3112]

The previous replies are very helpful. However, in a different talk, Deneen refers to what we know about human flourishing from the social sciences. I would refer you to Jonathan Haidt, Happiness Hypothesis and C.S. Lewis' first chapters of Mere Christianity and Abolition of Man as well.

[@raisingantifa2123]

wild how dull right wing "intellectuals" are

[@sanfedisti9374]

@Accelerationist I don't think you correctly understand Deneen's position. Also Junger would be opposed to your using his name in your list considering his position on fascism and your comically larpy black sun profile.

[@sanfedisti9374]

@Accelerationist How so?

[@sanfedisti9374]

@Accelerationist I didn't say Junger wouldn't like the other people on the list, I said he wouldn't like you!

[@sanfedisti9374]

@Accelerationist Could you explain that theory on national conservatism? Not taunting you, I want to hear your case. But I'm not sure it applies to Deneen, even if it's true. He's on the editorial board of a Catholic Anti-Liberal Integralist-adjacent journal/magazine.

[@sanfedisti9374]

@Accelerationist And what about Deneen being controlled opposition?