Yoshi-P Teases FFXIV Space-Time Multiverse & Ascians

[@Lyn685]

I'm glad that they haven't forgotten about the remaining Ascians, and I hope they include them in a smart and interesting way.

[@thecivilmerc9898]

Yeah I'm over here wanting more info and story about Azem 👀

[@ArchieGamez]

I feel like the artifact key we got is made by Azem

[@Celis.C]

@@ArchieGamez I get the feeling that the greatest and mightiest SCREEEEE might also be related to Azem somehow

[@brianrosado2333]

@@ArchieGamez I wouldn’t say Azem per se, but I think it might have been created by a previous reincarnation of Azem or another shard of Azem spirit from another reflection.

[@DawnAfternoon]

I hope it won't be *our* Azem and more of the Azem before Venat herself. That would handily set us up to be a proper Azem vs. Azem fight.

[@thecivilmerc9898]

@@DawnAfternoon I don't necessarily want an Azem fight, but rather something along the lines of Azem learning about the fate of the star and going around setting up contingency plans for us to find. But really, I just want more reflection bros.

[@andyoh1987]

since we have, what, three-four(?) unaccounted ascians, it wouldn’t surprise me if we haven’t completely stopped seeing them. based on what we know at the end of the current msq, i do think we will be visiting other reflections. and whether we meet the ascians there or not, could be a possibility.

[@Alcadria]

We also have a branched off timeline where the three unsundered, Fandaniel and the others all exist post-Zodiark's awakening; but not unsealing, due to the 8th Umbral Calamity completing, Hydaelyn still exists and the Final Days is still impending.

[@andyoh1987]

@@Alcadriaoh sh*t. honestly, i wouldn’t mind having to do a fight a second time, lol. i know yoshi-p mentioned the encyclopedia eorzea; i’ve got all three volumes currently, so i need to catch up on reading all the lore in them.

[@ElenaTheMenace]

I believe that it's 4, if we assume the ones Gaius killed are currently out of commission awaiting rebirth and reawakening. And of course Lohgrif is still about following Eden.

[@shawnscouten5184]

@@ElenaTheMenaceGaius had no way of knowing that they would revive unless killed under specific circumstances, so I highly doubt they are gone for good.

[@shawnscouten5184]

There are 7 ascians remaining, we have defeated Emet-selch,elidibus, lahabrea and the one he fused with, mitron and Logrif, and Fandaniel. There are 14 ascians total as we saw in the Arr cutscene. Curiously, one of them has to an awoken Azem shard assuming the seats are all the same as the convocation. There is also the Eureka cliffhanger of Emmeroloth getting killed by Eureka, but somehow surviving and showing up in the 2.4 cutscene that never got resolved, so that is interesting. Also, the Arcadion Ascension tournament’s symbol is literally a Deudalphon ascian glyph, so I suspect we might be seeing them very soon.

[@CanisMythson]

My thought... Just because Zodiark is gone, doesn't mean the Ascian's long-form plans to cause Rejoinings aren't still in place. Maybe they're without the guidance they would have had; and maybe they don't need it. That's what scares me, that there's shards out there prepped for a rejoining and it'll occur once a calamity happens on the Source.

[@Kurainuz]

even without their zodiark the remaining ascians could try to rejoin the worlds and send the post rejoining eather to the past to prevent so much sacrifice from happening and also defeat venat pre becoming haydelin if we go the crazy route. Without time travel it would not be weird for them wanting to continue the rejoining to make people complete again as with the world saved and the souls inside zodiark dead there are still sundered people like us that could go back to being an ancient. That said seeing how yoship talks it seems they are gonna use the remaining ascians but not for a rejoining plot

[@siyrean]

Should the source get to lightning heaven, will the shard with Alexandrea get pulled in and spark a calamity because it seems it’s ready to do so.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

We saw one in dawntrail. Living memory was all that remained of a shard consumed by a flood of lightning.

[@TheoVorster]

@@shadeblackwolf1508Alexandria’s home shard/reflection may have been rendered largely uninhabitable, but the shard/reflection itself hadn’t been rejoined to The Source. It’s more comparable to the 13th, where the planet of Alexandria’s shard/reflection has been flooded and aspected to lightning aether, though it’s probably not quite as bad as the 13th, as it’s Lifestream hasn’t become stagnant and people can still be born (and if not for the technology of Alexandria, would also still be able to die naturally).

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

@@TheoVorster i view it as a shard filled with aether, ready to rejoin on any electro-themed calamity

[@frbny88]

I LOVE the ascians so I will never complain if there’s more content with them

[@I_am_Samurai_Not_Ninja]

Oh I love asians too

[@Seedmember]

I haven't gotten into Dawntrail yet, since I don't have time for a mmo currently, but players theorised a long time ago that we might at sometime visit the Crystal Exarch's version of the Source. It would make sense to see Ascians there, still doing their thing.

[@Dusty_Inkwell]

I love the ancients so much, so I would absolutely be overjoyed to get more lore/info/tidbits or meet more of them still!! The lore of the old world and ascians has been my most favourite thing about the game, so I will never say no to more!!

[@25xxfrostxx]

I'd like to see a surviving Ascian show up in a more supportive role. Their mission is over and now they have to decide what they want their role in the universe to be. Maybe we actually manage to make a lot of progress repairing the first or 13th and an ascian approaches us because at the time of Zodiark being killed they were in the process of shifting another world to prepare a calamity and now that it's over, the ask us to help fix the world that no longer has a rejoining coming. It would have a lot of story potential to have one in a more friendly role.

[@DawnAfternoon]

A plot twist where a random unassuming NPC shows an Ascian glyph would be sick.

[@yabiyabi]

And not be casted into a different world like Gaia, but become a Scion ; ;

[@Backflip2002]

I mean Gaia is already primed for that role, all they would have to do is make the eden raids forced instead of optional

[@Celis.C]

Spoiler alert: Tataru was a supportive Ascian all along

[@iantaakalla8180]

Honestly, at this point we are due to have an Ascian Scion. The Warrior of Light has basically made friends with Ancients at this point. There has to be one Ascian so indifferent to rejoining that they become a Scion for a taste of the other side.

[@mrdantebloodwolfe5979]

We did meet friendly ascians like gaia, who knows we might actually meet more that deflected from the cause, and end up being allies to us in the future. Maybe in the end, the rejoining of shards already lost was not as large scale as people though, and people from that shard had the technology of space travel, and end up colonizing space long time ago before the source ever did, they probably colonized before their homeworld was destoried by the re-joining efforts. There so much predictions we could make up for future content.

[@Zakjuh]

That's kinda what I prefer. Finding Ascians who either gave up on the cause after Zodiark was ended, or were never really committed to it in the first place. Like Fandaniel, but with less of the alternative murderous intent. Something more like Gaia.

[@thesunthrone]

I really want to see what the Eden Ultimate will be like - there are some hints that Ryne may well be a shard of Mitron herself, since the stories released after Endwalker about the Ancients show that Mitron was originally female and with a very similar character to Ryne. So who knows, this might well be explored in the Ultimate, a what-if where Ryne is not taken over by Minfilia but instead by Mitron who was trapped inside Eden by Ardbert.

[@numenos3218]

I kinda don’t want the Ascians to come back. It would undo everything Endwalker did. The three unsundered acians acknowledged us as worthy to continue their legacy. They’ve past on the torch to us

[@Asmodean1111]

Honestly it would be cool to end up befriending one of the remaining Ascians as part of the Main MSQ for the coming 8.0,9.0, ect. Hell even if we don't met them, plans wore most likely in the works of other shards that now have shaped that world like with the first. But now they have more or less have been left without someone watching over it, so Ascians wore involved but now whatever trouble is now more so things having gone while.

[@GGothos]

To be fair we have befriended Gaia and it was all but put on a Broadway sign that when it comes time to fix the 13th in an impactful way she intends to be involved. Even at the end of Eden she was asked if she wanted to travel to the source and she said she will eventually just not until she's done seeing what she wants to see on the first.

[@VelvetSanity]

One loose end regarding at least Emet-Selch and Lahabrea (Elidibus as we know him was the heart of Zodiark) is how they remained Unsundered (unless Venat somehow managed to deliberately leave them Unsundered to preserve what she knew of the coming timeline).

[@Spyrit2011]

There were some odd things brought up in Dawntrail, that is related to the the ancients. This is definitely Dawntrail spoiler, but throughout WuK Lamat's story, did it seem Hear,feel, think weighed heavily? Even Koana mentioned it. Then Azem's crystal taking a front and center, right in our face. Finally the big question at the end of Dawntrail, why we do what we do, one of those answer choices, was for the love of the star. These are the things that keyed me into thinking we were not done with the ancients.

[@yongjeonsa5906]

I am really looking forward to all this space time thing that is being teased!

[@elisaswann]

. As for the short story addressing the branching time paths - Midgar was there (otherwise missing from our source) and suspect he maintains the branches of other timelines and worlds that may not have perished (other shards whether present or gone) . This may be why our wol has not seen him (or any of his children in the source ). Regarding DT - the pieces have been laid out for potential ability to go back and save that world before a certain someone perished . As Graha and others intervened to save our WoL and save two worlds , perhaps our Wol can save a branch of yet another shard .

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

So we killed the unsundered. Of the 10 remaining, we killed 1 in Moenbrieda's sacrefice, one was eaten by primal in heavensward msq, 1 is struck in Eureka, 1 is stuck in eden, gaia is our friend, and occupying her seat, and Fandaniel suicided. That's 4 unaccounted for. Alexandria's story also reeks of Ascian plots that have been set up and yet to unravel. However, what this tally does not account for is that unsundered can ascend other shards of the soul to the seats. That means that the first 2 on the list are not nessesarily off the board.

[@Yokai_Yuri]

The only thing in Alexandria that might have anything to do with an Ascian is the Arcadion. They described the Arcadion president as someone cruel with power.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

@@Yokai_Yuri the world was destroyed by lightning when a local town losing the electrope wars suddenly from being way behind developed a WMD that had a runaway reaction stronger than even its inventors expected. Tell me that does not sound ascian, i dare you

[@SuperRamos619]

Preservation sounds like it has Ascian origins.

[@EFlatPC]

I was talking to my friends about the Ascians just the other day. While the Rejoinings may not be possible anymore with Zodiark gone, there are definitely still Ascians out there and they could definitely show up and cause other problems in the future. Or who knows? Maybe 2 expansions from now we’ll meet an Ascian who has given up on feeling like they’re superior after Zodiark’s death and has decided to help humanity in its current form be the best it can possibly be and they’ll join the Scions. Anything’s possible.

[@vukkulvar9769]

Zodiark was protecting the world from Meteion, he was made before the Sundering and had no part in the rejoinings. The only relation is that the rejoinings puzzled Zodiark back together.

[@Zakjuh]

I am so glad they didn't add a skip button and are no longer considering it. It's the biggest Pandora's Box situation I've seen in a long time. I get that every expansion, the story gets longer, and there's more to catch up with. At the same time, people who skip (via paid boosts) typically don't stay around long, because it either does nothing for them, or they have the wrong mentality going in. Starting from a Realm Reborn might be rough, and I am a proponent of rewriting (to be better), updating (new voices, better questing objectives to compel people) and truncating or trimming fat wheresoever possible. But ARR and its expansions are necessary, and I see people who go from ARR to to EW (and now DT) sticking around for way longer and generally being more invested. Chiefly because in the course of their MSQing, they consequently broaden their mind to side content that isn't "RAID RAID RAID RAID". They get to learn about Eureka and Bozja, Palace of the Dead and its iterations, the Diadem, bonus dungeons, hunts, fishing, housing, etc. Now someone who boosted could do the same, of course, but in my experience, they tend to look at: ex trials, savage raids, and maybe ultimate raids. Those are finite, especially at the start of an expansion (4 whole savage fights and two extremes). Being reductive for a moment, here's what I tend to find when I look around: - Person gets into XIV, doesn't boost, and either ends up hitting a wall in ARR, HW, SB, SHB or EW (usually ARR or SB) that makes them quit, or they make it all the way through to the end and are invested. - Person gets into XIV, DOES boost, and usually ends up quitting soon thereafter, with a scant few sticking around or occasionally returning. So either way, this type of person would have gotten filtered eventually. Either in ARR, or after a boost. The only difference as I see it is that in the latter case, Square got a few extra bucks from someone who then quit within 2 weeks after the fact, which they very well might want, because money's money, but it hardly leads to long-term gain. Now consider a free skip presented to everyone? While I have full faith in the strength of XIV's narrative, people are, by nature, the type to pick the path of least resistance. Most will choose it to start with so they can immediately get into endgame stuff, and then some will say they "will just go through the old stuff with NG+ later", but they probably won't, even if they might have ended up enjoying it a lot if they did. If you add such a button or option, you also can't take it away. Once it's there, you can't remove it. Something like that has widespread implications for the game. Right now, Creative Studio 3 is facing an issue with hours of story heaping up, sure. But I don't think the solution is to grab a sledgehammer and do the game equivalent of throwing it all in the bin because that 10 years of story they worked on and that they just recently tied the knot for might be "too bothersome" for newcomers.

[@Draylin41]

Some of the Ascians we've yet to encounter have been name dropped in the game itself. I can't see us not running into them in some way. However, unless we get into a bunch of time BS they may not even be our enemies at this point. It would be interesting to learn more about the ancient world from someone who has memories of it even if they were implanted into a sundered version of a council member. Be fun to have Gaia tag along for good measure.

[@ardentdfender4116]

There are just things in and going on in the other reflections we aren’t yet aware of. Probably also plans laid in the other reflections we don’t know of and may just be dormant and can’t any longer come to past due to Zodiak now gone. But the plans are still there.

[@PhantomSinger1]

The Big Three are gone in the current timeline, but that doesn't immediately halt any side projects that can keep going without constant meddling. We even see how one sundered Ascian went completely off the rails the moment he suspected there was no more oversight. Even if we don't get a full expansion dedicated to one particular shard like Shadowbringers, cross-shard travel would bring up all kinds of possibilities.

[@baldyshere]

quazi i didnt even know you did ff14 content! until I subbed to your podcast channel and watched you interview Jesse (great podcast btw). You keep your channels separate for the games that makes sense tbf, I watch you for your mythic + and WA/keybind guides.. Looks like I got some catching up to do on this channel bro

[@davidk9844]

The multiverse answer kinda pokes at a Dawntrail question I had which was basically: “how did people fleeing the calamity of ice end up on the shard with the calamity of levin when the latter happened year’s before the former?”

[@GGothos]

To be fair that can be explained with time flows differently depending on the shard it was stated in Shadowbringers before and again in DT. Time on the first and thirteenth are relatively similar because the source is their respective neighbors. I suspect the farther the shard from the source the wonkier it gets.

[@tonytouch072]

Quazii you into FF14 as well. Stumbled across this channel as well. Instant sub mate. I shamelessly await your wow vids and now I have FF14 stuff from you as well. Just started my journey in the game last week as I wait for the new WoW expansion. Thanks for all your hard work.

[@idc2120]

Just looking forward to Y'shtola's reunion with Runar. Probably the 1st place she'll go. :D

[@Asin24]

I mean its very likely there have been many calameties set up my the Ascians that even if they aren't actively pushing them now the scales can be tipped where they very much can still be a threat. Not to mention the Ascians we haven't seen can be involved doing their own thing unconnected to their original goals possibly as well. I'm almost certain we might have an ascien threat (my guess not evena case of ressurecting zodiark or their original plan) and I'd not be shocked to even end up having one as an ally or at least not in a main antagonist role.

[@VelvetSanity]

I can't help wondering if something will happen that renders the Nier raids as canon to the MSQ, like maybe YorHa sent out a ship at some point to search for the world the creators of the Machines came from, and that ship eventually finds its way to Etheirys...

[@hololiveforever9455]

Ya i feel we need more information on what the Ascians are doing right now

[@Reve_Hyrulier]

If there is one thing we know about Yoshi P is that he can troll the hell out of us. Always keep one eye open with that mastermind. Him and his deves brought back a dead and during game back to life. I would not be surprised that the ending of FF14 10 years from now ends with us the master Asian or the master seer who sent the Asians to watch over Atherus was the one who planed the rejoining and everything we did expansions and all we planed and was necessary to make us and the life stream whole again.

[@vukkulvar9769]

Ascians, not Asians.

[@DoktorWieg]

Here's my thoughts about the remaining sundered ascians : since the unsundered are gone, they're now free to do as they wish. Like Fandaniel, they could opt to do something completely different than the plans the unsundered had. It could very well be that a few of them even grew to accept that the world as it is now is what it is. Doubly so now that Hydaely and Zodiark are gone. So I wouldn't be surprised if we came across an ascian that is basically doing what the WoL does with his Island Sanctuary : he's just living, doesn't care about the rejoining and just exists within the world as it is now. Heck, maybe one of them is part of the Ironworks crew undercover and just decided to remain an engineer. Another may well just be a noble in Ishgard, a merchant in Othard. Heck, what if one of them was a Padjal? I mean, while the WoL and Scions found ways to defeat Ascians, they never had means to detect them. It often was happenstance or plain sleuthing at looking for a known Ascian; they never really sought to find one they never knew about in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if someone we already know from 2.0 onward might well have been a sundered Ascian all along and they simply didn't act on the orders of the Unsundered... or simply were so discreet, they never knew they were around.

[@AlexanderPR2]

I hope all your assumptions are wrong. This would ruin ALL the lore of the Ascians whose only remnants would be the unsundered and among these, only a few would carry on with their plan throughout the ages, and this was for the pure convenience of the script itself, it would not make any sense to show all the other members. The remaining lower-level Ascians were only "summoned" as helpers. They would be unable to exist of their own free will and it was always clear that they were no longer living beings, just ghosts from a forgotten time.

[@StormierNik]

Keep in mind we still have a loose plot thread from Endwalker. That is, where was Azem during the Final Days? And how was the time loop created in the first place? There needs to be a divergent timeline that failed in order for there have been one that allows Venat to know to help WoL return to the past and gain knowledge to combat Meteion. That's where Space-Time Multiverse shenanigans comes in. They have this precedent set similarly to how there had to be a failed world in Shadowbringers in order for G'raha to return to the first and help save the source.

[@ek9750]

After dawntrail msq my expectations for the story are low but I hope they can steer it around because I really enjoyed the msq before dawntrail

[@RenegadeGaruda]

Nobody was able to convince me he's not just been waiting for the moment to go 'it was them pesky Ascians again'.

[@206Zelda]

We have seen four Ascian masks in a certain somewhere that is currently powered down (if you got that far; I reckon those were Ascian masks), so I'm interested to see how this turns out. Writing Team, please consult Ishikawa and don't screw up this time.

[@moonsnow4824]

Communication between servers and clients is the biggest obstacle limits the gameplay and great ideas to be implemented but probably no such problem in other MMOs. Sad to know there is no sign for them to improve or solve it completely because of the risk and cost, but work around end be flexible with new ideas according to YoshiP's answer.

[@paganflute3989]

i always thought of Venats sundering as creating a kinda multiverse. Atleast a limited one in 14 versions.

[@nataliet4293]

10-11 alternate zenos left to love on us huehuehue (assuming the zenos shards are durante, zenos, that lala healer in the first, and maybe sphene.)(non trivial chance he's a mount we made as azem in the past lmaaao)

[@vespi57]

As far as I know, at least two Ascian overlords have with certainty remained untouched after the conclusion of Endwalker: Pashtarot and Halmarut. They have only briefly appeared during A Realm Reborn post-patches. The eventual fates of Altima and Deudalaphon are also unknown, although their masks were in the possession of Gaius Baelsar in Stormblood, which means there's a possibility Gaius somehow managed to eliminate them, but that isn't certain. All other overlords and the unsundered are gone with certainty. And if you don't remember, here are their fates. Don't expand this comment, if you don't want spoilers. Lahabrea: Killed by primal King Thordan in Heavensward. Emet-Selch: Killed by us. Elidibus: Defeated by us, then used his remaining essence to allow us to travel to Elpis. Fandaniel: Killed himself along with Zodiark. Igeyorhm: Killed by us with Nidhogg's eye. Nabriales: Killed by us and Moenbryda. Mitron: Defeated by Ardbert, and eventually destroyed by us in the Eden raids. Loghrif: Shared Mitron's fate, her reincarnation now lives on as Gaia. Emmerololth: His essence was lost after being caught in a spell that sent the entire Isle of Val into the lifestream. What remained was destroyed by us in the Eureka series.

[@DawnAfternoon]

Altima is gone with Eden btw

[@vespi57]

@@DawnAfternoon You're wrong. Altima had nothing to do with Eden.

[@DawnAfternoon]

@@vespi57 Oh you're right I confused Altima with Artemis

[@vespi57]

@@DawnAfternoon Okay, easy mix up. And to point out, Artemis was the real name of Mitron.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

I don't want them as the main threat, but exploring what an ascian or two do after Zodiark is dead and their quest is rendered moot could be really interesting. If you played a part in a Rejoining for the 'greater good' but now that greater good is rendered moot and impossible to achieve what do you do? Can you live with that? What do you do with yourself now? Or maybe like Fandaniel, some of the remaining ascians identify with their mortal lives as much or more so than their past on the Convocation. That could be fun to explore, as long as they don't replicate Fandaniel's 'going rogue and want to destroy everything' plot. Despite not being as powerful as Elidibus or Emet-Selch, Fandaniel is the one who set the end of the world in motion again almost ending in the extinction of all life. So if they do bring another ascian in as the villain they don't have to come out with 'actually they're super strongerer than Emet' anyway. They would just need a good plan for them to carry out. That's assuming that said ascians come into the story as full on villains anyway.

[@MagicScientist]

What was the interviewer talking about with the lallafels and the 6th and 12th reflections?

[@ksNanoSquid]

He clearly misunderstood several lore points, I wouldn't worry about it.

[@MagicScientist]

@@ksNanoSquid That's what I was thinking, you have to make several incorrect assumptions to think we learned anything about those shards

[@Wo_9]

I wonder if we'll need the Ascians' help in order to visit the remaining shards.

[@OldManInternet]

I think it'd be interesting to have storylines involving Ascians coming up with new goals now that they're no longer tempered. They might not have as much raw power as an unsundered, but they still have interesting abilities and knowledge, and don't strictly need to be antagonistic anymore.

[@brianrosado2333]

Tempering usually does not go away with the death of the primal, so we could say they could still try to revive Zodiark but it was too costly the first time around, so that plan is a bit to complicated for sundered Ascians to accomplish since the cannot travel between worlds only the unsundered had that ability.

[@OldManInternet]

@@brianrosado2333 Fair point. I think I associated the tempering with the primal being dead because we dealt with them after they had died, so the effects were gone. Although at the same time, most primals aren't dead just because they're beaten, where as I think the defeat of Zodiark was more complete. I'd honestly be interested in whatever they decide to cook up regardless of what state they're in if we find them, for better or worse.

[@Pizzadelivery24]

I need to replay the story at some point because it’s been so long. I barely remember some of the things that was talked about in this video lol

[@spetsu1]

I figured in the next expansion were moving towards an exploration type of story, whole exploring its possible we come across another hidden threat or it could move to a political aspect where a war is brewing between continents.

[@kurousagi1239]

>Ascian not done? It's just "Another Allagan BS" vibe, but to be fair because we still have reflection problem left by Ascian (I guess the rest of place that we will stop by like Meracydia and treasure island of Blindfrost we will met with another reflection like Dawntrail ones)

[@RrowdyBeast]

I wonder if this is a response to "changing course if there was mixed reception to the MSQ". Personally over the Ascians, but I'm okay if a few of the stragglers are up to something here and there, would actually be neat to get a Sundered Ascian as a Scion down the line

[@iantaakalla8180]

I sincerely hope the Ascians are just another feature of the landscape at this point. That is, they can feature, maybe they can even try rejoinings, but stopping them is not the main focus nor is the story an Ascian plot.

[@Zakjuh]

I would not be opposed to meeting more Ascians if they had their own agenda. If they were just sundered Emet-Selchs and Elidibuses who followed their every note, then bah. But if they're ones with their own interests, who might even be friendly because they "don't really care about all that rejoining stuff", or they are antagonists for their very own reasons, and all their "Ascianhood" entails is that they have an exceptional amount of knowledge of the past and the inner workings of the worlds, then that's fine by me. Gaia is basically a friendly Ascian, even if in her case, it was kind of a mindwipe thing that caused it.

[@StormierNik]

Well yoship literally did say prior that future MSQ would be shaped by how everyone responds to Dawntrail

[@izumolee6714]

Remember only the un-sundered Ascians are gone, there are others still around similar to Fandaniel who no doubt will find a way to wreck havoc in the same way now that the 'dads' are no longer around. Some are in favor of the rejoining while others like Fandaniel don't care about such things.

[@MrKnaives]

I don't think all ascian are crazy like fandango. He was only crazy cuz he was a mixture between hermes and amon. I wouldn't be surprise there's an ascian out there just chilling and not a baddie. Gia for one is no longer a baddie

[@papapaulrocks]

And then we also have the possibility of ha ing Ascian Variants that exist in other timelines. The possibility is really endless once they introduce the multiverse and timewarping shenanigans.

[@Zakjuh]

I hope that at least a few of them are genuinely friendly and never really connected with the cause. Like Gaia, but without the mindwipe shenanigans to make her a clean slate.

[@BurningFreesias]

I sympathize with the people that may feel they're sick of Ascians. But because we keep exploring more shards that were directly impacted by them, it's only natural and logical to also keep exploring them. While I personally didn't care too much for their lore from EW, I am curious to see how a successfully rejoined world would fair, if it is even possible, and if it should be possible, especially now that the gods are dead and fate has been placed into mortal hands.

[@fefnireindraer144]

Good. I want more rejoinings. The Devs could put forth that too many already occurred that the pull of the first is to great and now they will occur naturally, plus a shattered world flying through space has got to be screwing up space time. Now people don;t have to be killed off, maybe the 1sts pull is so great that when people die they souls go to the first to be reborn and we see new souls having dense souls like Raha and us growing while no new life is occurring in the shards, until they are naturally absorbed.

[@dinnyskips]

IM NERVOUS at the idea that there's not going to be another overarching narrative and that the future of the game is just going to be a lot of self-contained stories. Very nervous.

[@wojnr]

I wouldn't be that worried. They will rethink their approach once people stop renewing subs. Let's not forget that 14 is one of major cash cows for SE, they failed too many projects to butcher it too.

[@DawnAfternoon]

@@wojnr Basically the moment FFXIV is dying is the moment SE literally will get their shit together Literally repeating history lol.

[@Raansu]

I'd prefer that personally. I don't mind the expansions connecting via post patch stories, but up until ShB, the expansions were fairly self contained. I don't really like the idea of another 10 year plot line and would prefer each expansion being it's own story.

[@DaVinci-wt6dp]

I think people are overestimating how much of the last few expansions were planned to have an overarching narrative. They were definitely just making things up as they went along, it was just well told and consistent enough that it felt like there was a planned approach from the start when they’ve literally told us that it wasn’t the case. So I’m not concerned if they haven’t thought that far ahead, as long as they make interesting stories. Having said that, the DT MSQ was a dumpster fire so …

[@dinnyskips]

@@Raansu not true at all - the expansions all had an overarching narrative, most of it involving the empire.

[@rosethrawn]

The Ascians are back, baby!!!🎉🎉🎉

[@Maeseam1611]

Dont forget Gaia appeared at the end of EW MSQ which makes me think she is going to have more participation in future expantions

[@Zakjuh]

She'll almost certainly be involved in some joint effort by the First and Thirteenth to help each other out to tilt the aetheric profusion of their respective shards back to something more tenable. Dark aether siphoned to the First, and Light aether siphoned to the Thirteenth.

[@Rolaz]

Well with how DT end... they've never left Ascians behind and almost every reflection will had them or the legacy they left. After we will learn how to travel to another Stars we will meet them

[@TerenceLight]

Even as Dawntrail stands right now, there are places where an Ascian’s involvement would make sense. (Spoilers, probably.) If they want to go even more into the FFIX references and parallels, then Alexandria must’ve had a Kuja in the shadows, influencing events and creating arcane technologies. And I remain somewhat unconvinced that Ketenramm “survived” being mugged by Zoraal Ja.

[@sweepingtime]

They could bring Elidibus back if they really wanted to, since his ending implied a lot of things. But I also think that it would be great for the audience in general to move beyond the Ascians. Trying to have the things you cherish in a story is a sure way to start the series down the dark path that Star Wars has gone in, where you constantly put in little callbacks to other characters to please people.

[@GGothos]

Ascians will still be involved or rather they will be involved. For as much as people cried about the EW patch MSQ it's obvious that is settup for later, they specifically make sure in DT to bring up Zero so she's not forgotten. Gaia explicitly said she will help with the 13th and she is able to hop shards she just said she rather stay on the first for a while. A voiced scene no less considering they kept Gaia and Rayne on retainer to voice their parts speaks (pun intended) volumes that we aren't done with either of them yet. I'm all for using the remaining ones as long as its done in the right way to make it not seem like it's just a cheap redo of a story already told.

[@zombieent8796]

a thought i had recently is that you have the source plus 13 reflections. a total of 14 worlds to play with. or another way to look at it, would be FF1 through FF13 could be the reflections and 14 as we know is the source.

[@Calvinooi]

Several has already rejoined with the source, 13th is the void and 1st is saved

[@VelvetSanity]

Seven rejoinings leaving a total of 6 reflections. Two (the 1st and 13th) have already been explored, leaving 4 - one of which is where Alexandria comes from, which leaves only 3 that we know nothing about.

[@FuyuYuki92]

Actually, the concepts he's talking about are extremely interesting, and I'd love if they explored them. I'm just really worried about the execution, because the Dawntrail MSQ sounded also cool in concept, but the writing did ruin it a biiit... 😅 I want to be excited for the story again

[@casualcarvalhogaming3249]

I was checking some japanese threads, and some japanese players are convince that artifact that we got at the end it might be linked to Alexander, after all we got a city called Alexandria. :)

[@ElenaTheMenace]

I saw it and thought oh no it's goblet shaped. A parting glass, if you will...

[@Zakjuh]

The sigil of Azem formed atop it when the Warrior of Light used the Crystal of Azem. :)

[@doemoo4779]

I hope they dont go hard into branch timelines/multiverse theory. Crystal exarch coming from a different timeline was fine due to the quality of ShB and most other time travel in game is bootstrap but if multiverse is fumbled once it can destroy investment. One of the reasons i think the reflections work so well as a mini multiverse version is because there are a limited number of them. Scale that up to infinity and you diminish why each shard is special and worth protecting. Especially don't give us the power to travel the multiverse

[@otysafiry]

I'm pretty sure the relic is from the ascians...potentially Azem and we may need it to travel beyond our world finally.

[@shintenkai1648]

The msq sets us up for another way for us to undo the sundering . Js. I'll let you go figure it out

[@godless1014]

We don't know how many Ascians there are or what their plans are. Do we really expect that someone like Emet Selch didn't have a backup plan? I always assumed the Ascians would be with us until the bittet end in one form or another.

[@iantaakalla8180]

I do agree; the Ascians are not finished. However, it really does feel that Igeyohrm was the only active Sundered Ascian that followed the rejoining.

[@Theigzorn]

i meen since Zodiark (and the paragons) is no more, the still active acians might can go awole like fandaniel did (just not as nihilistic and more the "i will rule this reflection".... sort). some might even be somewaht friendly (i meen gaia is a good exemple) to us since the wol (azem) is the next best thing to a paragon now.

[@Majkelo_]

I love Ascians ao much so its big W

[@oriji8139]

They'll probably use the remains of Zodiark in reflections as a plot thread at some point, kinda like how they did in the post endwalker story. I wouldn't mind this but I hope they don't do it in a way that's free likes a re run

[@Doc-Mayhem]

I feel the sundered will attempt a rejoining with themselves similar to warrior of light now has few joined souls to recreate Azim

[@pool842]

Please make the fire reflection a badass expansion please God

[@furanpyon]

Y'shtola said there is no way to know what some reflection is unless we ask an ascian, so... what if we got an ascian ally to travel reflections 🤔

[@VelvetCake423]

Could we recruit Gaia for this maybe?

[@Zakjuh]

@@VelvetCake423 Gaia would be fun to have, but she's too much of a blank slate to know of these shards. Unless she gets part of her memories back.

[@Mclucasrv]

Just read the interview and its weird for him to say "Hey you want to know more about this you should do this side dungeon or you should read encyclopedia eorzea" it feels like when I started WoW.

[@Hawkenwhacker]

You've misinterpreted the information. This is extremely common in the XIV community.

[@Zakjuh]

To be fair, playing the actual game to glean information pertaining to it is fine. Encyclopedia Eorzea-wise, I think it just clarifies stuff..? I think a lot of the basic information within can still be found inside of the actual game. It just gives you a cleaner presentation and more A -> B, but I might be wrong on that.

[@ksNanoSquid]

I think that telling someone to play the content in-game that tells them the answer to what they were asking about is a completely fair ask.

[@DJThomas59]

is yoshi p a fan of dragon ball? There was some scenes in ff16 that looked inspired by dbz. And the graha branching time theory sounds like future trunks. I want a goku black scenario next with the ascians in that timeline's scion's bodies. But led Elidibus be in our body, and have full control of a completed zodiark since he is the heart.

[@JayShifu]

This is great news! I hope in the next expansions we get space travel, time travel, multiverse travel! The possibilities are endless!

[@大-g4b5]

While we do know about Graha's dead-end world, I really hope Yoshi doesn't let the team use it for the narrative as it's a cheap device that could lead to incredibly lazy plot development.

[@Dratio]

> Space-Time Multiverse I'm sure this will cause no plot inconsistencies, paradoxes or continuity errors whatsoever

[@vincentbeton]

Regarding the Ascians...it just feels too over the top in how they reference Pashtarot (spelling?) with Sphene to not remind us of them. She has a very similar Symbol on her Clothing and he was directly linked to Alexander via 1.0 of all things.

[@siyrean]

Were they the ascien in 1.0? I thought that was an underling

[@vincentbeton]

@@siyrean I am not sure, I only read about it. Mainly remember that the Relic that is used to summon Alexander was linked to a plot involving Pashtarot in 1.0

[@TerenceLight]

@@vincentbetonThe character you seem to be talking about was called Travanchet, an Elezen from 1.0 who seemed to be an Ascian. There’s no official information on which Ascian Travanchet (likely an assumed alias like how Emet is Solus) actually was, though - just that he gave Mide the magic horn that served as Alexander’s core.

[@vincentbeton]

@@TerenceLight I checked the Name and yes, that's the guy! Weird, I could've sworn Pashtarot was mentioned in that context. Thanks for pointing it out

[@v77z]

I just let my subscription expire. They should've gotten this expansion right instead of taking the blog post route.

[@justaman381]

So time is main factors of every event, The world of future Graha is still exist and thats mean maybe even have possibility to have world that's fully rejoin. or Zodiark still alive in that's timeline multiverse. Bro.... I only can think Alexander will become main factors of these 10 years. Its would be waste to have Alexandria but not Alexander.

[@hottiekarotti7]

lower stakes for dt? what do you mean? it was just another worldending event

[@GGothos]

Not really it was stated even in the pre DT intro of Wuk Lamat that of the promises one of them had every intent on invading Eorzea and the rest of the world because Zarool Ja saw them as weak and destabilized because Garlemald has fallen. The only thing that changed is instead of an army of Tural waging war he stumbled into being able to use Alexandria to do it. The stakes never really changed, just the playing field.

[@RenegadeGaruda]

WDYM - they wouldn't be insane to do something like an Amaurot 3.0 would they?🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃

[@OldManInternet]

I'm conflicted on story skips. On the one hand, I think the game is definitely a more enjoyable experience overall if you play the story. However, the majority of people I've tried to convert from WoW and GW2 have gotten bored and bounced off the game. Even skipping to the previous expansion, not having any context, and not being able to do fresh content with the community is a huge deterrent. I've even considered playing those accounts and skipping everything for them, but that feels like a lot of annoying work on my part, especially with there being no guarantee they'll play after that. In a perfect world, people would just get invested in the story. But since that's not always the case, I wonder if there will be a right time to allow a full skip to the current expansion.

[@WikiED]

All i hope is that we're not going to touch unrestricted time-travel as it creates complete nonsense scenarios, only time travel that makes sense are closed loops ones like Alexander raids or the Elpis MSQ part, not stuff like Graha time travelling back to the First with Crystal Tower.

[@jasondarbe80]

An important thong is without Emett and there is no way to identify the fragmented souls of the 14.

[@siyrean]

Yet.

[@Rine.4656]

It's almost as if YP and fam wants everyone to move forward with Dawntrail and a new chapter lol.

[@celfhelp]

the multiverse bit is the only thing he's ever said that concerns me, because "multiverse" is so hard to do right, but i think it's a good sign that they haven't really tapped into it at all yet; shows they're clearly not looking to rely on it as a crutch that said, i'd love to see the WoL and Scions try to go back in time and change things only to not succeed. to just lose, maybe even gain some permanent scars the WoL and Scions have become a bit too pristine imo, they need to overstep and then face harsh consequences; a reckoning of sorts. maybe that's just me though. haha

[@The_Yukki]

Lately multiverses are like midas' touch. Except everything they touch turns to shit.

[@wojnr]

Won't happen, Elidibus before Elpis basically said that traveling back in time to undo things is lore breaking

[@davidpower5710]

​@@wojnr but that what happened in shb

[@TheTrueKingofScotland]

​@@davidpower5710travelled backwards through the timeline yes but we didn't change or alter the course of events in any way. The sundering still happens and events proceed as they did before we went back.

[@ImortalEnvy]

Multiverses and time travel is creative bankruptcy. Knew it was heading that way when they hired w/e this is for writing.

[@Yokai_Yuri]

They need just to quit the Ascian angle. We already fought the strongest of them in Emet-Selch and Venat aka Hydaelyn. Whenever they introduce lesser Ascians we get situations like in Eden where they are just "there" for the plot. I rather have new relevant enemies instead of the same old.

[@dullahandan4067]

Alternate timeline Zodiark is still around

[@TheMadMedek]

Cue Michael Scott. NO! Please Fing find new antagonists please. END walker remember… the END in that title?

[@zyeran]

Time for.. "REFLECTION"?!?? Hmmm....?!?

[@SpencerMepham]

oh no space time that has me worried Dawn Trails execution was really bad so my faith in the writers has dropped ALOT.

[@nyrahl593]

People forget that the first instance of Interdimensional travel in FFXIV [as players] was back in ARR when FFXI's Shantotto traveled to Eorzea from Vana'Diel. The FFXI raid series hopefully expands on the DT MSQ with the return of the queen of all mages -Shantotto. As with FFXIV; FFXI has a storyline in which the WoL is dead and the cloud of darkness consumes the world, and an MC is sent back in time to correct that. I've felt that Vana'Diel is the 13th shard for awhile now, but the bad-timeline. We're actually in the future of current FFXI. Since prior to DT; Instances of interdimensional travel resulted in varied results in regards to the destinations time. That said; a timeline likely exists wherein the Ascians rejoined everything. I REALLY wonder if YoshiP will explore us fighting 'The rejoined' that are far more powerful than the ones we met. Thus, giving us Azem the traveler that went beyond the realm that Venat walked. To different times, worlds and saw the reality that was the 'bad ending'. Then setting forth in motion the existence of 'Us'. Making sure that the bad-timeline never happens. The thought of super-evil Venat fighting us to 'rejoin' the multiverse of sources to one 'pure' timeline, would be awesome.

[@wildheaven1827]

The ascians are the devs that want to bring back 1.0. They refuse to accept its fall

[@wojnr]

A multiverse with alternative timelines and time travel usually means bad and lazy writing. It's really hard to make it correctly, so I'm really curious what their approach could be. As for the Ascians I think they should leave them behind in all their glory at some point, or people will start complaining. After Shadowbringers the bar is set too high in my opinion, and that's why there were some complains about EW and DT has mixed reviews. It's time to lower expectations I think.

[@MalganisLefay]

The only "Multiverse" Thing I can See in the future explored would be Grahas ruin timeline

[@Dieci-9]

My personal take is that I welcome self-enclosed stories that don't span 5 expansions BUT make them span 2-3 expansions. Don't drag them out but maks them long enough that you can give a full experience and don't be afraid to close an arc and start another within the same expansion. Honestly, I'll tell you what I expected DT to be: no reality ending threats, very restrained start to a narrative while the WoL and the Scions wandered about this new continent experiencing small adventures and mini arcs in each area that set up populations, characters and lore that would be used in future expansions. I expected the royal race to be a sort of device for that or just to make us tied to a leader on the new continent so that it makes sense for us to have a base of operations there and allies to rely on when shit eventually would hit the fan. We...sorta got it but in no way we were delivered what was promised. Instead we got dollar store Ascians and dollar store Zenos who spawns a child out of thin air. ...oh, and they squandered Erenville and Krile's arcs while the Scions didn't do much besides a few scenes and we were smiling and nodding as Wuk Lamat pardoned people that needed to be executed on the spot...realistically speaking. It is Final Fantasy but I've never felt so disassociated from what my character was doing or how he was reacting to events as I did in this expansion. There are some scenes that are jaw droppingly stupid like the one where, after trial two, something drops from the defeated, in front of everyone, not even the most curious of us go and take it, we let someone that we know, by that point, is intentioned to do something very bad, walk slowly, in the middle of the whole group, towards the thing and initiate a death clock, basically. I was stunlocked by how absurdly stupid that was and all it needed for it to work was that the "person" suddenly stole it with a drone or another small and fast unit. The music is stellar (though, a few times it's been used in pretty tone deaf ways, IMHO) and the combat and solo duties are also pretty good, though, some of them are literally impossible to lose so might as well have been there just to avoid putting another cutscene...which this expansion has way too many of...in fact, it has a severe issue with its pacing. Same with dungeons who are now formulaic and have to last a certain amount of time so it's always: 2 groups of enemies, wall, 2 groups of enemies, boss, repeated ad nauseam. Don't believe me? Go and replay the dungeons. Anyway, the expansion is a mix bag and I hope that either they hire better writers next or, if they stick with the ones they have, that they learn to write better stuff than this elementary school level stuff. That being said, I also am scared pf multiverse stuff. We already have the reflections, so there's no need to start and overcomplicate with multiple timelines. I'll be real, if the game starts doing time travelling and multiverse and handles it as a cop out to resurrect dead characters left and right or to pull mcguffins without proper setups, I'm done with the game. It'd pain me to say goodbye to my WoL or my fc but I'm not going to pay for some World of Warcraft level of bastardization of the beautiful world the devs struggled to build up until 7.0.

[@zacharyhall7466]

Bro, I was CERTAIN we were going to "absorb" Zero (assuming she was the Warrior of Light from her reflection, just as Ardbert was in the First) and I thought they were going to pursue a storyline where we become a complete Azem, since we are a sundered Azem, and have already "absorbed" Ardbert's essence at the end of Shadowbringers. I guess they're sleeping on that ENTIRE premise...

[@VelvetSanity]

Nah, Zero's not Azem's counterpart on the 13th, Golbez is. And Durante is Zenos.

[@zacharyhall7466]

@velvetkit69 well, this was a theory I had before we learn Durante and Golbez story... now they jacked all my theory up and just drop the entire premise. They make me care about Zero and now she's gone (no longer the focus) and we have the annoying and naive Wuk Lamat 😅

[@Bardic_Knowledge]

Okay, so it looks like FFXIV is operating on the Alternate Universe Split style of time travel, though whether it's Return New or Return Old (aka, whether the time traveller, if they don't take the slow path, would go to their universe of origin, like Trunks, or not, like Back to the Future (kind of)). What really muddies the timestream is that Elidibus, moments before sending us to Elpis, suddenly went "wait, I saw you there, didn't I? No? Yes?"

[@reshypoo9447]

By default, gonna say anything with "Multiverse" isn't a good idea.

[@CarlosHernandez-kn8sl]

Anything to get away from Wuk Lamat BS!!!

[@StormierNik]

Man before i was on board with the alternate starting point for Dawntrail, but now with Dawntrail out I'm kinda glad they didn't do that and hope they don't lol Telling someone to go through Dawntrail as it is but not Heavensward feels like a crime.

[@ksNanoSquid]

Please god don't do multiverse crap. I'm BEGGING you, CS3. It NEVER ends well. Alternate dimensions are fine, but being able to just say "lol here's another copy of Emet-Selch" will just ruin the stakes forever.

[@zain-bradleyblack7787]

Dawntrail seems like 2 stories that didn’t mesh well. First half was more of a to do list more than it was a competition. Second half was a bit better but there wasn’t enough time to fall in love with any of the new characters that appeared and the stakes escalated so fast it gave me whiplash. And the final zone is now a wasteland and boring to look at. I hope they take their time in the next expansion to world build a reflection properly and give us a new cast of characters so the disbanding of the scions can mean something. And please progress the time of the story. It’s getting harder to believe that ARR to dawntrail happened in less than a year.

[@Kiddy7180]

Please no multiverse lmao, other than that I'm excited