This is where 3D Printers were 10 years ago. So I see this being really common and cheap by 2030 - maybe sooner. Hope this idea survives the embryonic stages. Great review!
@Acecool3 жыл бұрын
Actually, sooner. You can make a 3d printer do exactly this. There are already injector extruders available, and so on... this thing isn't worth $400, let alone $4000.... Ugly finish, etc... I can get just as ugly a finish with protoboards, and for connecting surface mount components, I just run traces around and don't cross... Or, simply run thin wires and a bit of adhesive to get the same result for prototyping.
@boscovich113 жыл бұрын
2030 no humans on earth...
@loleq21373 жыл бұрын
@@boscovich11 Elaborate, please?
@OgbondSandvol2 жыл бұрын
@@loleq2137 it's a joke. OP said that maybe those printers become cheap and common by 2030... loleq21 said that maybe there will be no humans on Earth by then...
@bravefastrabbit7702 жыл бұрын
@@loleq2137 Look up the (not so) Great Reset. Ogbond is either an NPC or unaware of what's going on. You will own nothing, rent everything & be happy.
@EngineeringMindset3 жыл бұрын
0:40 LOL! pretty cool idea, but with PCB's so cheap to have printed it makes sense to wait the week for delivery. I'm sure the price will come down within a few years though. Remember when a 3D printer cost thousands, now it's like £200 next day delivery.
@jeffspaulding98343 жыл бұрын
It really depends on what it's slowing down. If you've got engineers spinning their wheels waiting on a prototype PCB for a week, then it'd be worth the money. That's assuming that the company can't use traditional acid bath techniques to make prototype boards, though.
@johnuferbach91663 жыл бұрын
@@jeffspaulding9834 If you have engineers spinning their wheels you can also get your pcb made and delivered in a day (is quite costly aswell though)... the issue is that this can only print two layers, so for many designs it's not suitable
@jeffspaulding98343 жыл бұрын
@@johnuferbach9166 That's a good point. I don't work in a field that does a lot of PCB prototyping (we'll solder something on a PCB sometimes, but mostly it comes to us already assembled) so I don't really know, but I'd be interested to see how often two-sided prototypes boards are used in the industry. I know a lot of the stuff I work with is two sided, but that's because it's meant for field repairs (it's mostly through-hole for the same reason).
@joeofloath3 жыл бұрын
@@jeffspaulding9834 that's why we bought one where I work. It's completely useless, and barely functions as advertised. We just order boards on a 24h turnaround from a domestic supplier instead.
@derpinbird11803 жыл бұрын
Would be fun for starting a mini business. You can still do 3d printing for profit at home but naturally you need to network a lot and bring some skills into the deal ie 3d modelling, painting and other finishing
@katherinemorton91263 жыл бұрын
I saw this and looked so cool! But when I got a quote of $4100~ It be hard to justify
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
True
@ilikedeere3 жыл бұрын
I just can't explain the price, I bought a pcb cnc for 200$ cad and the traces are much more precise. Plus you don't needs consumables.
@SlartiMarvinbartfast3 жыл бұрын
The price is horrendous, and even putting that aside the process is still fiddly and slow. Still, if you have the money, don't mind the hassle and want to regularly make PCBs quicker than waiting on mail order boards then I guess it's viable?
@lorinatzberger36243 жыл бұрын
@@greatscottlab What are your thoughts on the wegstr cnc for making PCBs?
@OleJanssen3 жыл бұрын
True, especially considering the fact that this thing is theoretically nothing more than a 3d printer with a different substance to print with and a drill tool.
@kermitdaphrogge5253 жыл бұрын
Hi, Bro! I saw a random guy the other day on KZbin, and his process is intuitive. 1. He hand-sketched on the board. 2. Made appropriate drills. 3. Then he laid very very thin wire along his sketch. Then, he put that whole PCB carefully on a surface which he can increase the temperature (he used an iron box). Gradually as temperature increased, wires began to melt and the wiring thing was done. That was cool.
@FilamentFriday3 жыл бұрын
Great review. I’ll stick with my Bantam tools PCB Mill. It routers holes not drill and gives me easy ground plane. Plus is almost 1/2 the cost. And as you pointed out, the resistance of the conductive ink isn’t as good as copper. Thanks for a great video.
@Kalvinjj3 жыл бұрын
Not to mention no expensive consumables. At most the milling bits and, well, the board itself used. Expensive consumables kill it in my opinion (as if I had the cash for it anyway hehe), and then that special solder used is just the cherry on top.
@tunahankaratay15233 жыл бұрын
If you get copper rivets, you can make much betterr quality PCBs than this at home. You can make a UV curing station and mask the PCBs too. And for the rest of the price, you can buy tons of gold for gold plating xd.
@rimmersbryggeri3 жыл бұрын
@@tunahankaratay1523 You mean grams of gold. :P
@tunahankaratay15233 жыл бұрын
@@rimmersbryggeri I mean for that price I could get you megatons.
@TransRightsMatter3 жыл бұрын
No prices on their site for "Bantam tools PCB Mill" and their software has a subscription. "Bantam Tools Milling Machine Software Annual Subscription" $199.00. No thank you..... How can you claim 1/2 the cost? (FYI their CNC version is $3,999.00.....)
@fcf82693 жыл бұрын
Among the most honest review I have seen around. Thanks for bringing up the actual sore points of this device. Even if the cost was not an issue; the problems related to no solder mask (that means you have to put that on), and that the traces are quite a problem if they are too close together; make it quite unusable for anyone that can just wait a week for professional grade PCB, and can make prototypes at home "old school".
@revdev55113 жыл бұрын
downside: 1 week waiting time meanwhile i wait for 2 months for parts from china
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
Sorry about that......
@crusaderanimation69673 жыл бұрын
Well i wait 1 month with cheap option, i can wait less but i have to pay more, but that make it quite expensive (Before someone gonna comment that this isn't that expensive , I live in Poland with make prices-earnings ratio quite bad for me, fact that i'm 18 year old didn't help either). Of course income just like chipping time and price depend on country. But my point is, this is trade of, cheap but not fast, or fast but not cheap. But i quess you can live in place where this no option is neither cheap neither fast.
@efexzium3 жыл бұрын
@@crusaderanimation6967 dude that’s just a freaking 3D printer. You could get a 3D printer and mod it and get a very similar result for a LOT LESS
@lexander96863 жыл бұрын
Same
@lexander96863 жыл бұрын
@@crusaderanimation6967 good luck mate, i kinda have the same story(19 yo)
@randombits26203 жыл бұрын
Man...never say u are making silly youtube videos..you are creating the most valuable videos
@thomasbecker96763 жыл бұрын
For that price tag, I'm happy to keep using JLCPCB.
@Nathan-mu8zy3 жыл бұрын
Lol yea
@trowawayacc3 жыл бұрын
Yeah but a engeneer working at home can now make prototypes faster.
@RiyadhElalami3 жыл бұрын
Yeah and it is super fing manual. My designs are simple enough to fit on two layers. I would need to add every via manually I would kill myself. A week is super fing good for a 4 layer assembled pcb in my opinion
@alenasenie69283 жыл бұрын
This is for prototypes, not to replace pcb makers, as an engineer I can say, I have been waiting for this, I am at a point where I might have been able to make it myself, but I might just buy one to be able to do designs and repairs faster
@thomasbecker96763 жыл бұрын
@@trowawayacc For the cost of that machine, an actual engineer can afford to use "normal" methods at home.
@voltera_io3 жыл бұрын
This is a really fascinating review, very in-depth, and we learned a lot watching you use the tool! Thanks so much for taking a look at our technology! You're absolutely right that our customers are more often professional electronics engineers looking to quickly validate ideas, do rapid solder paste dispensing for SMT components on short runs of factory-fabbed boards (something you didn't really do here because you prefer hand soldering) or work with flexible/stretchable substrates where an additive approach is required. We also have a lot electronics designers looking to test/validate their own custom conductive ink formulas among our customers, because you can easily swap different cartridges of ink into the machine. As you point out, we've had a large number of universities purchase if they're looking to work with exotic substrates, or to teach the fundamentals of electronics by having students see circuit designs come together before their eyes. In any case, this is a very fair and comprehensive review of the Voltera V-One, we will stay tuned to your channel for more! Thanks again Scott!
@filesopen61882 жыл бұрын
why havent you guys donated this printer to Scott instead of asking it back?
@Osmanity2 жыл бұрын
lower the price...
@xitoydanuz2 жыл бұрын
Keep on innovation, that's very good printer! Love it
@802Garage2 жыл бұрын
@@filesopen6188 Smaller companies don't have unlimited budgets. Supporting them means later they can give out more stuff.
@MeSoyCapitan2 жыл бұрын
Sounded very interesting until it became clear it was an undeclared sponsored video. Underhand and misleading.
@bur1t03 жыл бұрын
The quality that JLCPCB produces, really makes that a hard sell even if we ignore the price.
@uwezimmermann54273 жыл бұрын
or any other of the cheap Chinese manufactures. But even European manufacturers are not unaffordable, neither the US ones as far as I heard.
@johnuferbach91663 жыл бұрын
@@uwezimmermann5427 And if you order at the premium like beta layout you can even get it delivered in like 1 day (that is kinda costly though^^)
@OddlyIncredible3 жыл бұрын
American PCB fabs are pretty expensive compared to Chinese if you're ordering a small volume/area, usually on order of like 5-10x the cost per square inch. The advantage the US fabs have if you're in America is that you can next-day a PCB if you need one right now versus having to wait a week plus for a Chinese-fabbed board set. I have my own PCB mill that I use for R&D and farm out my PCBs to JLCPCB so I just got for cheap-and-dirty for preproduction testing.
@paulround85013 жыл бұрын
Agreed it looks like a total pain to use, modding PCB design and messing around trimming bridging between pads. I don't see any market for this thing to be honest. I wouldn't use it even if it were free, it doesn't look at all reliable. PCB fabs are getting cheaper all the time even the ones in the US and Europe are starting to get reasonable pricing on small prototype boards these days.
@uwezimmermann54273 жыл бұрын
@@paulround8501 and Elektor even proudly links to this video on Facebook trying to advertise this machine facebook.com/ElektorDE/posts/3669504553127589
@recklessroges3 жыл бұрын
Balanced and fair reviews are the best advert. Voltera should be very pleased with this video.
@gene_Code3 жыл бұрын
- Holy shit this is so cool!! - Edit after seeing price: Nevermind.
@artemonstrick3 жыл бұрын
whats the price? cannot find it in the links :(
@kamelladys3 жыл бұрын
@@artemonstrick almost 4000 euros
@0xCAFEF00D3 жыл бұрын
Check out Marco reps. It's a good channel. It also has videos on pcb manufacture using a 3d printer and a mounted laser which would be a much more affordable option but that's secondary.
@PolakritW3 жыл бұрын
@@artemonstrick 11:05
@excitedbox57053 жыл бұрын
It is worth it for a company. Imagine you order a prototype PCB and realize there it needs a change so now your entire engineering staff is getting paid while doing nothing for a week. Even rush jobs take 24 hours-2 days and cost several thousands. A company will recover the investment within the first product development cycle if not within the first week.
@7c3c72602f7054696b3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the honest review. Given I can make a PCB in roughly 2-3 hours at home and not have to wait for or buy consumables, I don't see this as a good product, even in an educational environment. Hell, when I helped my instructor in high school make the boards for the class we used the photoresist method which was quite quick anyhow, plus no limit on PCB dimensions.
@ameliabuns40583 жыл бұрын
How do you make yours?
@7c3c72602f7054696b3 жыл бұрын
@@ameliabuns4058 Currently with pcb software, a laser printer and dextrin coated paper. There's a ton of info if you search the web. JLC would produce better results though.
@g45h963 жыл бұрын
GreatScott: *gets a pcb printer sent to him* JLCPCB guys: shit
@yen56253 жыл бұрын
So true
@ytc31823 жыл бұрын
Lol
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
Do not worry. JLCPCB will be back.
@losttownstreet34093 жыл бұрын
JLCPCB are much cheaper and better quality; you had to wait and if you make a mistake you had to wait again ... rapid protoyping is expensive, factory production is cheap
@Kalvinjj3 жыл бұрын
Then they watch the video till the end and sigh in relief
@teeceetime23 жыл бұрын
Thumbs up for honesty. I also agree in that this is best suited for companies + universities
@abhikghosh45143 жыл бұрын
No bro your videos are not silly, this is one of the most informative channel in you tube,and I love it ❤️
@rickpontificates34063 жыл бұрын
I used to make homemade PCBs before I started having them manufactured. I used the pre-photosensitized boards and developer/ferric chloride. But I always hated drilling the holes! Today, I’m designing PCBs that would have been impossible as a homemade hobbyist
@amur02143 жыл бұрын
Oh when I saw the video title, I was worried that you broke up with JLCPCB 😭
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
Nope. There will be more videos with JLCPCB as the sponsor. But you know, they are more ways to create PCBs ;-)
@prakharmishra30003 жыл бұрын
Same
@bobyla133 жыл бұрын
@@greatscottlab Yes I have been making PCB at home for many years, yes it takes time and it's not very professional, but it is much better than this stupid thing :)
@lpjunction3 жыл бұрын
If you can read between the lines, this is an AD for J.....PCB The 3d printing is not an options, no through hole, multi layer?, solder mask?
@cheesyvin80783 жыл бұрын
Silly KZbin videos? Scott! Your videos have taught me more than anywhere else and has inspired me to learn electronics! So thank you!
@technodaz3 жыл бұрын
0:41...reminds me of all those stock images of people "soldering" , like the ones holding the hot end and a tip the size of an aeroplane touching random bits of motherboards.
@Helyx5253 жыл бұрын
Or trying to use one of those huge old soldering guns to work on a pcb.. lol
@technodaz3 жыл бұрын
@@Helyx525 Yea lemmi just get my 300w gun here and watch me remove this 0402, yup its gone and lord knows what all those other bits did because they're gone too.
@stepheneyles21983 жыл бұрын
I've always respected Elektor since starting in electronics as a hobby many years ago. Was a subscriber for a couple of years but found I didn't have enough spare time to justify it. Anyway, liked the video and that printer looks great! Thanks :-))
@MartinDosil3 жыл бұрын
While I wait for the open source version to adapt to my prusa, I'll continue milling pcb's with my cnc.
@Nightsd013 жыл бұрын
This is so exciting and impressive. The price actually isn’t that bad given that this is such a new company/product. If this is one of their first products....that’s absolutely amazing. I personally will hold off on getting one of these until they can make something precise enough to make the kind of PCBs that I usually make (ie. 0402’s components, QFN/BGA, fine pitch stuff basically). They’d need some way of applying a solder mask for sure.
@uzoechisamuel Жыл бұрын
I want to go into PCB printing for undergraduate students in a developing country. Do you have any advice of cheap machine I can purchase?
@typxxilps3 жыл бұрын
a real bargain - if they had offered it back then in 1999
@leadergames06613 жыл бұрын
4000$!?!?!?!
@martinmajewski3 жыл бұрын
@@leadergames0661 I guess, because in 1999 there were no easy and cheap ways of getting custom PCBs. Nowadays, also it takes a week, JLCPCB and such are just too affordable for everyone that it would make sense to buy this printer!
@KertaDrake3 жыл бұрын
At this point you could probably rig up a cheap 3d printer to do solder. Probably wear through the nozzles insanely fast, but it could work.
@lm60363 жыл бұрын
@@KertaDrake You would need a pretty impressive hottend for that. Most cheap ones are made of copper, aluminium or something similar with these you would risk that it amalgamates with the hot tin. So you would need a hottend and nozzle that can reach up to 300 degrees C and be made of something like stainless steel. But it probably is possible yea
@kentdeterding93333 жыл бұрын
@@lm6036 The standard material for hotends is brass. Better ones can be made out of stainless steel and even ruby in some cases.
@petvet41453 жыл бұрын
In your video at 8:21min you use some kind of rivet tool to insert the via rivets. Do you have a link for it where you bought it?
@Bhavesh_g203 жыл бұрын
Electroboom: the engineer has its desk messy GreatScott: Are you sure about that
@redakaminekloc51673 жыл бұрын
It's because Scott is not even working, this is just entertainment for him
@1I2am3Dani43 жыл бұрын
Guess which one is German.
@AdaptivePhenix3 жыл бұрын
Not ready for prime time but thanks Marco and there is nothing "silly" about your videos... Definitely my favourites. A hint for anyone who is irritated by the ad-interruptions; Fast forward to the end of the video and then go back to the beginning. The ad's are wiped out (works for me every time) 😎
@suruadamable3 жыл бұрын
For people who want actually professional pcb at home: just invest into uv curable photoresist and solder mask, and a decent quality laser printer for negatives and that's it. I recently started it and even myself is surprised how good the quality is :)
@TheDanyschannel3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agree! Even with a cheapo $80 laser printer and some crappy 50c transparent film I can get features small enough for QFP48 packages without much trouble. Great for single prototype boards before committing to overseas manufacturing
@ketse893 жыл бұрын
I used to do my pcb's at home for 10 years before I got tired of it and switched to professional manufacturers. Sure it was cheaper and quicker, but was too much of a hassle. I did double sided
@adr-richard55813 жыл бұрын
I was getting better looking results with a CDR-pen and bottle of ferric chloride over 20 years ago :)
@BartvandenDonk2 жыл бұрын
I haven't created any PCB board in the past and I think it's just for the happy few that love to do just that. Nice video, very informative.
@haseeb70273 жыл бұрын
I tried photo etching PCB designing..it worked great and also cost efficient for those tiny smd parts circuits .....for price of 4000usd it's hard to afford...I am saving money for almost a year to buy a good 3d printer....
@anesthetized70533 жыл бұрын
this is pretty sweet. i feel like we are 5 or 10 years away from being able to fully develop and manufacture entire electronics projects entirely in house on an amateur hobbyist budget. now we need to figure out a way to print electronic displays at home.
@Henchman19773 жыл бұрын
Designed and assembled in Canada?!? We still make stuff?
@andreasu.35463 жыл бұрын
Chinese factory mistyping "made in China".
@NoorquackerInd3 жыл бұрын
_Toyota and Honda would like to know your location_
@gslavik3 жыл бұрын
Yes. Savage makes some rifles in Canada. :) (Savage MkII).
@dylan-nguyen3 жыл бұрын
Made in Canada with globally sourced parts. AKA parts made in China then screwed together in Canada 😂
@meeder783 жыл бұрын
@@dylan-nguyen assembled in Canada, so they basically add the powercord and put the fuse in. 😬
@Cyberdyne_research3 жыл бұрын
I've been a fan of this channel long enough that hearing "let's get started" causes a dopamine response.
@marklatimer73333 жыл бұрын
Should have started with the 4000 euros, I could have saved 12 mins.
@DarkIzo3 жыл бұрын
i didnt know people watched this channel for the product instead of the content
@yukin19903 жыл бұрын
@Lumumba B. But China made QC ...... Since you don't need many of them.....I would prefer Quality over price.......
@alanbal8883 жыл бұрын
It's interesting to watch nonetheless.
@alfredcornflake50323 жыл бұрын
Hey Scott I'm curious why you don't use flux to help with the ease and flow of soldering components?
@JonnyBergdahl3 жыл бұрын
You do realize that using the Voltera to dispense solder paste and use it for reflow as intended, would have avoided your soldering mistakes all together?
@iAmTheSquidThing3 жыл бұрын
So I guess this device is good for surface-mount components. But for through-hole components, a mill is better suited.
@agustingm58923 жыл бұрын
'expensive' ? I agree. 'silly' youtube videos? Absolutely not. Your channel is very helpful
@andreasadam28523 жыл бұрын
unfortunately, the Elektor discount code does not work ("The coupon code you entered is not valid or has expired.")
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
Try again in a couple of hours or tomorrow :-)
@andreasadam28523 жыл бұрын
@@greatscottlab thanks, tried again next day and discovered that unfortunately the discount code works just for an english membership (via the linked .com-Site), not for a membership in German. Elektor support confirmed that, no discount for those who want to read in German.
@andreasadam28523 жыл бұрын
Jetzt geht's doch auch für die deutschen Fans! Auf der Seite oben rechts auf die Deutsche Flagge klicken und schon geht's! - Danke an den Elektor-Support und an GreatScott!
@vinade21003 жыл бұрын
I think of one use for this scenario. Since you can literally print it, it should be possible to print multi-layer PCBs, one just have to add a non-conductive layer (which has to be figured) on top. That way you could get away with smaller parts and even use the smd resistors as a distance between them. Obviously you can do it only on certain parts of the board. What are your thoughts on that?
@arnaud76713 жыл бұрын
I think the price would be acceptable if they added pick and place.
@ytc31823 жыл бұрын
Yes
@HypherNet3 жыл бұрын
If it could do auto-riveting, board flipping, solder-paste dispensing, flying probe test, pick-n-place, included an oven, and flying probe uC programming, it would be really cool. Though I doubt using ink is really the right approach. Using a more traditional etching process with a laser or something similar would be much better in my opinion. You could totally sell a machine that took in parts, blank boards, and spat out fully functional and programmed 2-layer boards ready for testing. Probably could sell that for $20k. But until you're at that point, I just don't see the value proposition compared to the Chinese board houses.
@absurdengineering3 жыл бұрын
... and filled the blind vias for you, and added a tool for extruding on the hole walls and curing it there (with a pin sticking out the middle of dispenser to keep the hole open). The board would need to be heated for that so that the ink on hole walls would cure so that the head could move to the next hole without disrupting current one. … and used a smaller nozzle, and had the ink stick less to the nozzle… In other words: this is good for proof of concept and for someone’s pet niche application where the current resolution and process would work unchanged. For most other people with money for it, this seems like a waste of time though. I wouldn’t be able to use this even if it was given to me for free. OTOH, a sturdy CNC with total component cost in the same price range would have immediate use. I could run two boards in parallel. CNC is also great for doing controlled impedances on thin two layer boards, or even 4+-layer boards if you can press the stack yourself (takes a press, among other things). On a CNC, you can tweak the trace width with the VNA plugged into the circuit, and do trim runs until it’s within a fraction of an Ohm, if you want it that way (not normally needed). You can also do EM-model-free feature routing, where instead of using very expensive software that still takes you only so far, you run a shape refining algorithm that modifies the shape incrementally to produce the exact response you want - and both the VNA and a TDR output can be used for that. You can do this with other components already in the circuit as well, and after the dust is blown off, you power it up, g-code generator takes a frequency and time domain sweep, circuit power is removed, and the tool goes back for another refining run to bring it closer to what you need. You could design some very complex filter responses and feedback paths that way, with rather simple technology, without slaving yourself away to EM tool vendors (OK in a big business setting, not so much in small startups and for advanced hobbyists). This can easily pay for a very fancy CNC just in the cost saved by not paying a fortune for EM modeling software, and for the speed of iterations. A bit of ingenuity can really take CNC techniques way further than is typically talked of. I’m sure plenty of companies with clever people may do this already and keep mum for competitive advantage; but I just do it for hobby stuff and would love it if some manufacturer just took the idea and made a cheap widely copied machine + software combo that can do the sort of CNC you don’t see done on PC boards. Commoditizing this stuff would be more than awesome. I only mess with it because I have to - otherwise I couldn’t play with microwave circuits so easily, and am not interested in product development in this area (life is too short - can’t do everything). I like physical experimenting too much - dealing with accurate numerical EM models for a hobby is not my piece of cake. So, all in all, this is not a very innovative product, because it does something that 99% of people who do these things can think of in like half a minute, and it doesn’t even do it particularly well (about anyone in this field could take it to this field - but that normally in business setting is a proof of concept, not something you dump onto the market with fingers crossed). Instead, maybe that company should focus on ideas that
@charliewyethfalcon74903 жыл бұрын
Okkaaaaayyyy... A good thing for those electronics students/engineer/enthusiast with enough money to buy this PCB printer. We will stick to DIY PCB GreatScott.
@chrischris63993 жыл бұрын
home made cnc milling is a way better solution, better result and much lower cost.
@manaspange38153 жыл бұрын
Hey! I want to make one. Can you help or send some references?
@Enderkruemel3 жыл бұрын
@@manaspange3815 use a 3d printer as the Start, there are some that can Do Laserengrave 3d print and also milling. But i didnt have one that can Do all of this But i build my own. Print a simple Motor/ dremel holder. Look at some diy cnc.
@petermuller6083 жыл бұрын
I disagree, fiberglass dust is not a joke ;)
@manaspange38153 жыл бұрын
Some KZbinrs are using Universal G code sender. Is it good to use? With an arduino
@michaliszyn3 жыл бұрын
@@manaspange3815 Mostly Printed CNC is a good project reference, more about here: docs.v1engineering.com/mpcnc/intro/
@fredsmith99623 жыл бұрын
I have had mine for 6 months or so. I am happy with it. getting good results (i.e ones that dont short) takes some trial and error. Although it can be used to print whole PCBs, that is what JLC is for, I use it for printing bits of a PCB - checking footprints - debugging stuff. The team are super nice - but 4k is a serious investment as well.
@-CrippledNinja-3 жыл бұрын
GreatScott: "...me who makes silly videos..." Me: NO! I'm learning here!
@StvPaterek3 жыл бұрын
Your KZbin videos are NOT silly! They are wonderful!! Keep up the great work! :-)
@SuperYellowsubmarin3 жыл бұрын
Amazing. Not just the printing, which looks fairly simple, but how they developped the entire product and interface which looks so friendly !
@julikb2 жыл бұрын
11:46 silly youtube videos? No man,your videous are exelent.One of the best ones.You and DIY Perks are awesome.Nice voice,great explanation(script and visual)....KZbin is a ocean of silly videos but yours are great,not silly.
@mratanusarkar3 жыл бұрын
GreatScott: I am returning the PCB Printer JLCPCB: *sigh* of relief
@COALROCK86423 жыл бұрын
Can we use it like a thin usless traces but using thick solder as conductors. Happy to make solder blobs and coating it with nailpolish.
@moonmatthew3 жыл бұрын
Me when i see the title: Excuse me what the what?
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
It is crazy ;-)
@moonmatthew3 жыл бұрын
@@greatscottlab Yeah :)
@luukje9993 жыл бұрын
My uni bought one of these. They are very usefull for fast (in comparison instant) prototyping. However you do have to treat ground planes differently. The software is amazing and student proof. Not sure if they fixed it in the mean time, but you can't skip the heating fase on double sided prints. We have an external oven that can heat way faster would save about an hour. If you do get one, get extra spare nozzles.
@raymondburrage3 жыл бұрын
I think we need a DIY or buy on this one
@xaytana3 жыл бұрын
DIY would be stupidly easy. Nothing about this is sophisticated at all, just the changeable tool platform is a bit unique in that it uses pin to pad as a connection method, and that the bed works as a workpiece clamp and the curing heater. The only other non-standard thing is the screw-based plunger extruder for the ink vial, but this isn't anything difficult to implement. The drill itself is so unsophisticated that it uses a literal RC hobby motor to run it. Take any typical 3D printer, add a clamping system to hold a PCB blank to the bed, and have a a changeable tool system. The plunger extruder would work off the filament extruder's functionality but at a different feed rate depending on the gearing between motor and plunger. The drill could probably run off the extruder's functionality as well, but implement it as a switched function where a constant feed rate has the drill as 'on,' and stopping the feed rate switches it to 'off,' with a simple amp to run the DC motor. You could probably even upgrade the tool changer from a manual system to an automatic system. The only sophisticated part that would need work is the probe function, as most closed-source printers won't integrate it nicely unless a probing system is already provided, resulting in the probe being entirely separate and integrating at the design software level, or there's a chance more open-software products would allow it, with open-source platforms being the most open to this modification. But with that said, is probing actually necessary? Most 3D printers are going to be level for proper printing anyways, and the clamping system should be sophisticated enough to keep relative flatness of parts, even with the PCB floating in relation to the bed; even hobby milled standoff clamps should be toleranced well enough as long as the hobby machinist knows what they're doing. As for positioning purposes, I would think a laser pointer would be a valid replacement, and would be an entirely passive tool. This only leaves curing. I'd recommend and oven as no typical 3D printer is going to have a bed that safely achieves the 210°C requirement. Heated beds for ABS only really achieve >100°C due to going above the glass transition temperature of 100°C isn't really recommended. A heated bed that'll go to 210°C is a modification that is possible, but at that point it's probably safer to use an oven due to burn hazards on an open surface. The only big issue is the consumable that is the ink. I'm not sure how many suppliers there are for this stuff. Though I do wonder how similar it is to solder paste that board manufacturers use for SMD soldering; seems like it'd be similar stuff, high silver lead free paste, just the 'ink vials' use a much finer syringe tip. There may also be some kind of etching agent, or something in the reaction while baking, that adheres the paste to the fiberglass of the PCB; though I'm not sure how soldering paste interacts with a raw PCB without solder mask, as SMD soldering always has a solder mask on the etched PCB, there may not be a need for any method of adhering the paste to the board. The paste is the big unknown, and the cost of the Voltera pastes makes an alternative solution worth looking into. On the topic of conductive consumables, we've also seen actual conductive ink, as in pen ink, and we've seen various forms of filament that're metallic and conductive once you bake off the plastic. I don't think finding a product between the two would be all that difficult, especially as solder pastes already exist in various recipes. Unfortunately, Voltera doesn't list the metallic recipes for their inks, though they do for their various solder pastes. All of Voltera's products also require refrigeration for an 8 month shelf life, which makes this entire system even more expensive given that each vial is only 2ml. Only thing left is the rivet tool, probably the least sophisticated tool here, as hollow rivets have been a thing for a long time and are mostly understood in how they work. At the end of the day, the conversion is simple, with a simple manual tool changer, and simple code hacks to make it all work, with the biggest issue being the cost of OEM solder pastes and the need to find an affordable alternative. All of this is also true for converting a CNC mill, though you'd need to make more drastic changes to how the tool functions to get that platform to function correctly, as exchanging extruder type A for extruder type B is fairly simple and could easily be a 1:1 exchange in coding, but adapting a mill would be like adapting the mill to a 3D printer first before adapting it to a PCB printer. All of this is easily achievable, it's just the damned ink that makes the DIY project expensive. But does anyone really need a PCB printer? PCB printing services are extremely affordable, with some having decent turn around times, not to mention those services can do everything a PCB printer can plus more, considering those services can also do multi-layer boards. Even DIYing a double sided board isn't that difficult, though chemicals involved may produce safety hazards, but a simple masking and etching setup is extremely cheap in comparison to a machine with a high cost consumable ink. While a cool project, I just don't see the point of it. Need a prototype board? This is what we have perfboard for, or even better, just use a breadboard until an order from a PCB service arrives. There is literally no logical explanation for PCB ink printers to exist, other than being an expensive toy for people with more money than brains. I can't find a single use case where this machine has any advantage over what we already have and already use; especially when the consumable has a shelf life that requires you to actually produce a decent volume of boards within that time frame.
@tmkkka80933 жыл бұрын
@@xaytana It's so stupidly easy that I wasn't even able to read through your comment 💩
@larrymace23613 жыл бұрын
@@xaytana Right you can just get a simple CNC mill from eBay for $100-200 and add parts on to do what this thing does for less than 1/10th of the cost. Conductive ink is nothing new they aren't the first and it is cheap not only is it cheap you can make it yourself at home.
@lost4468yt3 жыл бұрын
"that you can never solder them onto a PCB and use them" - laughs in Louis Rossmann
@andrejsgelins92963 жыл бұрын
We are not talking about pcb (printed circuit board). It is litle different
@captainyak39483 жыл бұрын
Good and honest proof of concept... Thanks! I remember once in college we created a pcb in the lab and we used tons of steps. I don't even remember them now...lol
@miigon91173 жыл бұрын
Now this is real PRINTED circuit board
@tinkmarshino3 жыл бұрын
I like the company's that give you a visual guide.. I have never been a book learner.. I can do it but it has always been easier for me doing hands on learning.. once I have learned the basics then the book is of value to me.. Dang.. but that is how it goes in new markets the first prototypes are never exactly right but they usually get better from there.. Great show! carry on!
@williamdorsey98123 жыл бұрын
Great video. I learned more from you than my 4 years in college. You would make a great college professor
@elijah_93923 жыл бұрын
What college did you go to?
@therealmakmillion3 жыл бұрын
“For me, who just creates silly KZbin videos [...]” I wonder if GreatScott! knows just how life altering and helpful these videos are? I have learned a lot from them!
@cyphre3 жыл бұрын
This still seems pretty promising! I'm sure there are other ways to go about printing traces, but even this design could also be some sort of typical 3D printer mod. For example, not so much printing 'traces' but laying out whole wires of some sort.
@johnnyboy24593 жыл бұрын
When i was 15 years old we made our own PCBs in School! it was part of the electronics class... this was over 16 years ago!!
@johnmazza59186 ай бұрын
We did it in the early 1980s as well in electronics shop class.
@jonpaul49353 жыл бұрын
"This is awesome, i'm gonna buy one" looks at the price... "Yeah okay maybe not"
@rbl_nano3 жыл бұрын
Your youtube videos aren't silly, they good quality learning content
@precooled3 жыл бұрын
oh, that looks cool, that might be something i would be interested in buyi... * Sees that its $4000 * * chokes on sandwich * il come back in 5 years
@RaidsEpicly3 жыл бұрын
honestly there's still so much manual work too. So many component switches, long wait time for the curing, having to rivet the vias....seems really rough.
@justrosy26352 жыл бұрын
Excellent video! What is the "sacrificial layer"? (I don't yet own a 3D printer and have never done a 3D printer project before, so I have a lot of vocabulary to learn yet. Is there a good 3D printing vocabulary sheet somewhere online I could refer to?)
@andreasu.35463 жыл бұрын
12:22 "Ink" type "Muscular Mermaid". I so though that was going to be the name of the next version of Ubuntu Linux.
@tiborklein53493 жыл бұрын
It's Aquaman, also known as waterboy.
@andreasu.35463 жыл бұрын
@@tiborklein5349 Aquagirl maybe.
@MrNside2 жыл бұрын
Have you tried PCB etching using the UV screen from a resin 3D printer? I've seen a couple of videos on it and seems really reliable, cheap, and fast.
@snipersquad1003 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't pay £300 for that printer with that quality finish let alone £3000+.
@wacapta1n3 жыл бұрын
Thing is way over engineered. You see how thick the metal is supporting the head? I mentioned it in another comment, but there's a reason a lot of 3D printers prices started dropping when they realized they could get 99% good results with a material as ubiquitous as extruded aluminum. Strong Juicero vibes from this machine.
@robrodriguez48663 жыл бұрын
Can you use a regular 3D printer to create the tracers and just dip it in acid afterward?
@user_rKChwLeBqKYyurEfiSLFmCBNC3 жыл бұрын
i would love to see this technology get cheaper so I can finally not have to use giant breadboards as because the printer looks similar to a modified 3d printer i think it will take just a few years ( 2025 - 2033 )to get reasonably cheaper
@greatscottlab3 жыл бұрын
We will see :-)
@tobimai48433 жыл бұрын
Just etch the PCBs. Cheap and easy
@raylularoussef247dasilva63 жыл бұрын
@@tobimai4843 that's what I do since the early '70s and it works great for me!
@elmariachi51333 жыл бұрын
The printer would become cheap and easy to get, if the concept was succesfull. But the main problem lies in the conductive inks. These have been around for decades and didn't get cheaper by any means, ever, mostly for the expensive resources needed.
@kerr12213 жыл бұрын
PCB manufacture with a few weeks turnaround is affordable now
@rodneynormanhersom3583 Жыл бұрын
could you use this with a solder fountain instead of a soldering iron for first priming the ink before parts are soldered
@rdautel3 жыл бұрын
Great demo video, thank you. I was very interested in this printer until I saw the horribly poor quality result. Maybe good for extremely simple boards, but if you're doing enough to warrant a PCB printer you're probably not always doing super simple designs. After seeing what it did with his design, I shudder to think how it'd print out even a simple 32 or 48 pin mcu design. Add the price tag to that and this is just not for prime time.
@targetdreamer2573 жыл бұрын
Whoah!!! I remember making a PCB buy masking off the copper and then sticking it in an acid etch tank. Awesome!
@thepcman3 жыл бұрын
Try QFN/TQFP packages you will see the surprise :D
@MrBenMcLean3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating! Being able to create your own PCBs at home has been a nerd dream since at least the 1970s
@jim401353 жыл бұрын
Pretty amazing tool for a school science lab though - get everyone to design their own PCB... which you can then literally have printing in the corner!
@willhughes13363 жыл бұрын
Friendship with JLCPCB ended, Elektor is my new best friend
@ZsomborZsombibi3 жыл бұрын
Well indeed it seems expensive for individuals, but I can imagine 5-10 prototyping nerds (who live close to the each other) sharing the procurement and maintenance of one unit.
@jonnyphenomenon3 жыл бұрын
I received my Voltera One a week ago but haven't had time to use it. Hoping to get printing in a week or two once I get caught up on other stuff.
@Hunter-fv5gl2 жыл бұрын
Not worth $5,000.
@jarod17012 ай бұрын
It is for those who need it.
@editeurlediteur9789Ай бұрын
@@jarod1701Even for themselves It's irrelevant you Can get pros CNC's for devious prices (+2 layers) Or for only 1 or 2 Make 'em yourself.
@jarod1701Ай бұрын
@@editeurlediteur9789 Good for you
@RoyalTech_20243 жыл бұрын
Hi Great Scott, Thanks for your videos. Can you make an arduino synthesizer with ADSR Envelopes?
@blarbdude3 жыл бұрын
They didn't even let you keep the thing?!
@firefly24723 жыл бұрын
Like he said at the end. Go watch again :)
@maxheadrom30883 жыл бұрын
Great Scott! Cool video! PCBs are more than just connections - for some time now. But, for clarity, what you said is ok! Elektor was popular even in Brazil!
@1kuhny3 жыл бұрын
Having to buy proprietary consumables is an instant red flag. Especially for that price. It really wouldn't be that hard to make something similar for a considerably lower price. ODrives could give the accuracy and precision, or use a powerful laser with a galvo system to engrave a design onto a PCB that has been covered with something to resist etchant.
@DrTeddyMMM3 жыл бұрын
Wonder after printing if you can use "MG Chemicals - Liquid Tin" to treat the circuit board after heat curing the conductive ink to laydown a layer of tin on the traces for better conductivity and ease of soldering.
@BotFactorySquink3 жыл бұрын
Thought about that ourselves - truth is, super toxic stuff.
@andreiciora27653 жыл бұрын
This printer is more expensive then the ultimate jbc soldering station
@AgrimGrover3 жыл бұрын
Will you recommend wegstr PCB milling machine.
@TheBackyardChemist3 жыл бұрын
This product is kinda dumb, in the same time this takes you can print your circuit on a transparent film, expose a photosensitive PCB with UV, develop it and etch it with ammonium persulfate or ferric chloride. Or alternatively, you could put a copper clad PCB into a CNC milling machine and mill away all unwanted copper with a small tungsten carbide bit.
@nonowords78573 жыл бұрын
Sarcasm at its fullest
@manishmandal-782 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot. Their ad shows like it gives pcb as neat as commercially manufactured
@milanm57763 жыл бұрын
With all due respect, this is one expensive peace of CRAP, hammer it!
@ghos.t49683 жыл бұрын
Since the ink is available to buy there's nothing stopping someone from creating (or modifying an existing machine) an open source machine that could use the same ink right?
@markrichards56303 жыл бұрын
Where do you get your Via's and rivets? Even Digikey's staff can't find them in their catalogue.
@thevaf28253 жыл бұрын
Is it possible to use proper soldering technique with this? I.e. heat up the “copper” rather than touch the solder wire? Can it also be reflowed in a standard reflow oven?
@conortownsend2423 жыл бұрын
I have a lot of experience working with the voltera and the nscrypt 3d printers from an internship. The voltera is very nice for printing on flexible substrate and can tolerate using a variety of approved and non-approved inks. You can make your own inks that have properties you want and you can load them into the voltera using lurelock connections.
@Stoneman066603 жыл бұрын
Great to see, but yeah, I think DIYing my own PCBs with a laser printer and etch will be my mainstay for prototyping for a long time to come.
@garymucher40822 жыл бұрын
I make virtually one-off circuits all the time. So the typical transfer method works for me and rarely do I make any mistakes transferring any circuit to the board now... And I have a great floor model drill press that accepts the finest wire drill bits I own up to and including #80. So I will continue on with how I do them. Great video anyway....
@Alan_Skywalker3 жыл бұрын
I wonder what's the ink in this thing, which can both stay on the pcb when heated and be soldered.
@FXArts Жыл бұрын
What about using a Diode Laser to make a PCB?
@Ownedyou3 жыл бұрын
We have one in our lab. It's nothing like the PCBs you get from JLCPCB and the ink is pricy. It can print on flexible substrates and that is really handy. Prototyping flexible electronics can be costly, and while Voltera can't do fine pitch, is a great prototype tool.
@dreamyrhodes3 жыл бұрын
Hey could you maybe make a video about how to get all the parts for starters? I especially mean ICs, Mosfets, Capacitors ect. You often have huge part lists under your video but it's somehow awkward to buy all of them single or a bunch of lets say 5 ICs of that type, 10 Mosfets of that type ect. Especially for new ones this can be quite tedious because we all don't know what to use where. I bought a few boxes of sortiments for ICs but I am never sure if it contains the right ones I'd need for a project... So what sortiments of components would be the best for a broad range of beginner projects? Would be cool, thanks!