"You Didn't Play It Long Enough"

[@MonsterTurner1]

Don’t worry you guys this video gets good after 10:59 minutes.

[@HorseArmour]

I’m glad you watched the whole way through!!!

[@HorseArmour]

Sorry I had to pin this, lowkey hilarious. Bravo sir 😂

[@MonsterTurner1]

@@HorseArmour Absolutely! Love the content.

[@HorseArmour]

@@MonsterTurner1

[@NotHappening-b8t]

thank god. i just skipped to that mark and yes. i was very happy. finally i can go to bed

[@slyced8745]

This is how I feel about watching certain shows. It gets good after 100+ episodes is a terrible sell

[@VanillaSpooks]

“Trust me trust me, you only need to watch through 240 hours of video to understand the good 4 hours, cmon”

[@parns8997]

agreed: people keep recommending me shows/animes with several hundreds of episodes each, and with their recommendation comes a detailed list of which arcs to watch and which to skip and this and that and all kinds of conditions. . . because of this shit I try to always recommend people shows/animes that are engaging the first minute of the first episode of the first season only

[@druid4243]

One Piece comes to mind.

[@derederekat9051]

you just need to wait for the Water 7 Arc in chapter 443.

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

​@@druid4243 i watched one of the 1000 episodes i forget which number precisely, and it was pure 🤡. I dont like clowns Meanwhile the heart is one piece

[@dylanarmour6727]

Snorefield

[@HorseArmour]

Lmao

[@buwad523]

Best example, this game doesn't respect your time

[@hailsax4943]

That’s how I feel watching this video now actually

[@HorseArmour]

😮

[@reloadedspade176]

Ain’t that a doozy

[@WastelandChef]

There’s something else I want companies to do again to counter that: Demos. Let people experience the game a little before committing to buying it. This actually helps sales from people who like it and decrease negative reviews from people who don’t.

[@2one4uzi]

Honestly cyberpunk 2077 has such an incredible storyline and its quite a good hook

[@HorseArmour]

Whatya like most about the intro? Like what gets you hooked into it?

[@mikemoore5270]

@@HorseArmour "the rescue" is a banger for an intro dog

[@hubertET]

Nah. The first few quests leading to the heist are solid. The rest? Meh. Cannot even be an AH to a dude in his 50ties talking to you about "living like a meteorite, dying young and not as a smelly old guy". HE chose a long life but there is NO option to smash this right into his face. FKN hypocrite!

[@2one4uzi]

@@HorseArmour honestly man I go for the nomad route and I enjoy the way the story settles in for the first act. Idk if you dwelled into how the "soul killer" story factor plays such a crazy role in the dlc and overall game, but it gives life to RPG games that makes you grow with certain characters like Johnny, whilst knowing he isn't a real entity, just a virus taking over a dead corpse.

[@RaymanRocks822]

The concept of a 'Hook' is definitely important for a first time playthrough. It can help you get through some boring parts because you want to see the payoff. For repeat playthroughs it isn't enough anymore though. Slow and/or boring openings can stop you from replaying games you otherwise really like. Just the thought of doing all that boring stuff again just to get to the good bits is often enough of a deterrence. I spend a couple hundred hours each year just replaying old games I've already beaten before. Oblivion, San Andreas, Sonic Heroes, Return of the King, games that all put you into the actual main gameplay from pretty much the word 'go'. On the other hand, I love the Yakuza/Like a Dragon series. I rate it as one of the most consistently awesome franchises in all of Gaming. I 100% every game and love so many things about it. I recommend it to everyone. But I've never replayed any of them after hitting 100%, because of their incredibly slow starts and tedious in-between stuff. The story, characters and general unexpectedness gets me through that on my first playthrough. But on repeat playthroughs, it's just too much. I'm not surprised by all the insane twists and wacky stuff anymore and constantly getting interrupted to have every single mechanic introduced to me again just becomes frustrating. Forced tutorials and unskippable story at the start of the game can also ruin replay value when you have to go through stuff you already know for an hour before you can even get started. It's like watching the employee training video again at the start of every day at work.

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Is there any game in the history of gaming that does new game like Starfield?

[@kevo300]

ADHD. Nuff said.

[@mrosskne]

Shitty games that suck, you mean.

[@icarushyde3395]

People like what they like and dislike what they dislike, not every game is made for everyone, nothing is

[@SetariM]

A game for everyone is a game for no one

[@Crocogator]

4:22 - Oh! I can actually talk a little bit about this. Baldur's Gate 2's intro dungeon AKA Irenicus's No-Good-Un-Fun-Mephit-Goblin-Fetch-Quest-Weirdo-Zone has a mod to skip it. It automatically loots the entire dungeon, auto completes the quests, recruits people you'd meet there, and teleports you to the exit. I seriously can't play BG2 without it. Going through that mess once was more than enough. For those interested, the mod is called Dungeon-Be-Gone and has a voiced bard NPC

[@MartinOReilly-mb4um]

Ugh. if you have to skip BG2 like that then you shouldn't be playing BG2.

[@Crocogator]

@@MartinOReilly-mb4um The dungeon is GREAT for the first playthrough. Absolutely! There's a ton of story and character moments from the folks that you most likely played with during your first play of BG1. This mod is 20+ years old. People have been replaying BG2 for a very, very long time. And when you know everything about the first dungeon, you don't want to do it again. You gotta understand that, right? If I'm replaying BG2, I just want to get out there and make my party.

[@mrosskne]

Why are you replaying a 20 year old game?

[@Crocogator]

@@mrosskne It's 24 years old. And why not replay it? It's one of the best games of all time.

[@WalrusIncarnate]

Thank you for this.

[@HorseArmour]

*wearing chikfile uniform* My pleasure

[@WalrusIncarnate]

@@HorseArmour I've got into so many arguments about this exact topic and it's just nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[@ClellBiggs]

What's even worse are games that start out good and then fizzle out a few hours in, and sadly that's even more common.

[@SimuLord]

The video mentions the "Steam graveyard", and I've got one on my account with games that stalled out at 15-20 hours or so. Games I bought on Friday after getting home from work, played over the weekend...and never touched again.

[@Tepaneca]

This actually happened to me in skyrim..never played rpgs so i was confused and got stuck in jail first day i played and almost quit...forced myself to come back the next day and figure it out and it became probably my favorite game of all time..

[@ikiwe9730]

Jesus christ cyberpunk has good graphics

[@VanillaSpooks]

As much as I love Cyberpunk 2077, 2.0 really should have been 0.8

[@angeloluna529]

the last time i played CP77 was back in 2021. i've heard how 2.0 is somehow the gamechanger it needed, but im not listening to the reviewers from steam because they lied, defended and made excuses both for this game's terrible launch and the lies of the publisher.

[@BaconEater666]

@@angeloluna529 i only got it when 2.0 came out, idk what it was like before that, but i've been having fun with it. i totally get if you don't pick it up again tho

[@nexalight599]

​@@BaconEater666 the old "skilltrees" were just bland number increases, throwing knives were a PERK that's how bland it was

[@angeloluna529]

@@BaconEater666 the skill tree was very disappointing, just defense and attack boosts. the life path feature was just a gimmick, all you got was a 5 minute intro of the path you took and some few sprinkles of unique dialogue related to your lifepath throughout the world. there was no vehicle combat like drive-bys. back then it was empty of content and a lot of AI issues. go watch crowbcats video on cyberpunk since his vid on it is an ancient reminder of how bad the game was at launch. and the fact yongyea lied about the game until he made a faux apology about it and went on like it never happened.

[@aliceinthewired]

​​@@angeloluna529I waited until 1.6 to buy it because I was opposed to buying something that's unfinished. Now that Phantom Liberty is out I can't even wrap my head around not experiencing something this good. The game is still far from perfect, but it does something for me that I can't exactly quantify. I understand where you're coming from but I can't go there.

[@MartinOReilly-mb4um]

3:59 You gotta be one hell of an impatient kid if you couldn't wait going thru the start of Red Dead Redemption 2. I think this video is the complaint of people with NO sense of immersion or imagination and are just like "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme now!" Now Starfiedl, Starfield is boring c r a p.

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

9:33 "If it couldn't hook you... It's the games fault..." 9:45 "I don't think I'm not enjoying as many games because I'm getting older I think I'm not enjoying them them because they are just not giving me something I want to enjoy" Another anecdote: When I first played Mass Effect I was 30+. One weekend I had a lady on visit, she wasn't that bad. But I was so engrossed in the game that I spent more hours at the computer than in bed. The only game released in the 20s that have given me a similar experience was Hogwarts Legacy, but half way thru it just petered out and became a Ubislop open world fest. Modern games are terrible! Creative people have been kicked out because they do not fit in their equality model where everyone is the same.

[@smokinggnu6584]

Same thing with writing books.

[@HorseArmour]

Had another comment say the same thing, I think that’s a good comparison

[@Snippyyy]

i do understand the case of, after a while sometimes games click and then you start enjoying it, but at the same time theres games ive played for a hour and went "yeah this game slaps"

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

I think there is a type of shady business on Steam that is built on frontloading a game with the best content the game could offer. Just enough to hold you past the return policy cut off point. After that, you're stuck with a carriage turned into pumpkin.

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Meanwhile starfield with creation kit and an xbox means even the average joe can develop a console game right now.

[@christian_gamer_guy6447]

I get where you're coming from, but part of the issue with this is that when you spend time in a world, you CAN often become more immersed and appreciate what's there when you spend more time. Another part of all this, is that there is always a learning period where you're trying to figure out how to play and what's expected of you. Sometimes learning is annoying, though sometimes these intro areas can be super well done and engaging. It can take time learn who the characters are, how interesting they are or how intricate and rewarding unravelling the story can be. You don't often get all of the gameplay enjoyment immediately jumping into a game. Ultimately, patience can pay off immensely in the end, or, you may end up frustrated even after pushing through. That's just the type of 1st world problem we're presented with when trying a new game.

[@SecretlySeven]

I think the hook really peaked with Skyrim. Within seconds of making your character you're escaping a dragon attack. Even if you ignore the story you know what the cake is gonna be. You don't even get through the tutorial before you have cake smeared all over your face so you can taste it.

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

The Skyrim kinda suffers the opposite problem. They frontload the content to hook you in, but they have nothing to back it up. The more you play the less satisfying the game becomes.

[@behemoth-g6k]

​@@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842 and now there's starfield which can do neither. Hook you in or back it up.

[@DumbDare]

@@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842 Crazy take lol

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

​@@behemoth-g6k especially when you can't even play it on your ps5. But that one ship will crush ye old dragon into a tomato.

[@xax2952]

​@@DumbDareit's a realistic take, skyrim is not that good tbh. it's a decent action adventure game but the lack of any deep rpg mechanics and terrible writing really hurt it.

[@264pokemonmaster]

Wasn’t FFXIII plagued during development? I’m genuinely asking, I only recently bought the trilogy and vaguely remember the ‘game informer’ magazine coverage saying it had something wrong with it.

[@JCDentonCZ]

On the one hand, I actually really do prefer stories to be told slowly, no In Medias Res, no flashbacks or flashforwards, and no time skips or skipping big wars and conflicts (a classic problem with Bethesda these days, in particular). But if I don't know if I'll like a game, then absolutely, give me a good vertical slice immediately or early on - Not so much 'frontloading' the content but making sure that I know it'll be worth my time.

[@sebastercats6123]

I always wonder the counter arguments to these things. What does deserve your time? At what part of the game do you want it to be fun? Why do you have the need to expect something from the game? If you aren't having fun, then why are you feeling bored? There's an underlying psychological issue there, and if you can tap into that, it'll make you a wiser person. It won't change your opinion, but it will broaden your perspective. Making us more in tune with what we do have now rather than chasing what we "could" have.

[@mrosskne]

- Anything I'm being paid a sufficient amount of money in exchange for - 100% of the parts of the game - I expect to receive entertainment when I pay money for an entertainment product - I'm feeling bored because I'm not having fun, because the game sucks ass. That's what "not having fun" means. It makes sense that you'd bloviate about "being wiser", exactly what I'd expect from someone who spends a lot of words saying nothing at all

[@sebastercats6123]

@@mrosskne Yeah, I do seem to bloviate sometimes when I speak about being wiser. But I want to emphasize that I say these things to avoid judging people's opinions and expectation, especially in gaming. Sometimes I see people being polarized and in their echo chambers that I feel the need to find ways to help them see things differently. That's why I approach with questions than telling you differently. On your points, I respect your opinion on expecting a game to be fun all the way through especially with your money on the line. But I want you to know people are flawed, opinions are flawed. If you can just dig deep into your thoughts and make more counter arguments, you'd see how your expectations and opinions are skewing your reality and thus the reality your gaming experience itself. Sorry if it seems like a lecture or I'm psychoanalyzing you or something. It's just that your last words does offend me a bit, and I feel the need to tell you how "being wiser" is about asking questions, accepting how everything is flawed, accepting humility, and uncomplicate things. If you don't agree, then that's fine. Everyone has their own personal values they'd rather stick to the end, and I respect that. Just don't be rude or disrespectful about it.

[@TailAbNormal]

People definitely have way less time to enjoy videogames as they get older, but they also have more refined interests and a far better idea of what they do or don't want from a game.

[@sourdoughbornsourdoughbred4712]

It's always been this way. Only a few books, movies, videogames are worth the time. Cream rises to the top. Of course 90 percent will be bad. That's life.

[@Chad_Wick]

Sunk cost fallacy Refund the game before you reach the point of cope returns

[@ghost7685]

new we wait for inevitable "Why are games so short" or "The pacing in games are way to fast" Just to be clear, short games can be great, the old cod campaigns of 4 hours were amazing, but if I like something.............I want more of it. I'd rather play a game like vermintide for 500 hours where being able to get to the point of playing on the hardest difficulty (which can take like 20 - 50 hours) is like the tutorial and the real fun begins when you play on legend with a few buddies and always have a fun fallback, than play a 4 hour game and just boop ends in 1 day. ESPECIALLY if they cost the same.

[@math925]

Respectfully, I think I can blame the diehard apologists for the game **in addition** to the studio that makes bad games. I really do think that people who mindlessly spew talking points in order to protect various forms of entertainment are the same people who grow up to mindlessly spout political ideology. Anyway, I like your videos, I just wanted to clarify that self-appointed yes men deserve contempt. Happy holidays, Horse Amore!

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

RDR2 anecdote: Bought it at release, tried playing it, it was bad because I old had a 1070. Then 2000 series came and it wasn't worth the price, so I waited. Then covid happened while 3000 series dropped. And no way I'll pay €1500 for a 70s card. Then 4000 series dropped right after while prices were still extreme. Finally last year I got a 6700XT for a ok price but my backlog for "new" games was huge. I started RDR2 when I got the "new" card but lost interest before getting out of the snow area. When you have 10 games waiting that is not a good start. Then rumors about RDR on PC started to go around, so yet another wait. Because I like to play games in order. Now I'm just waiting on RDR to drop to €30. Then I can have a great Cowboy adventure! Yeehaw!

[@Ravix0fFourHorn]

RDR2 first and then RDR1 is a better order to play them in as RDR2 is a prequel to RDR1.

[@HarryO_Possum]

​@@Ravix0fFourHornno, it isn't. RDR2 retconned a bunch of stuff in and feels completely different to RDR. Redemption is a Western, whereas Redemption 2 is GTA with horses. Playing 2 before Redemption only means the discrepancies between the two, especially at a narrative level, will be more apparent.

[@HarryO_Possum]

The "prologue" for RDR2 is especially bad because it feels like a second part of a prologue that doesn't exist. You're told a robbery went wrong. You're told some people, whom you never even see in the game, got shot. You get told a lot but shown very little, which is generally a bad way to tell a story, and often fails to get people engaged and invested with the story.

[@Duendito]

I keep reading it as R2D2 😂

[@Zack29810]

I pretty much agree, although there are exceptions, like the KOTOR games. both KOTOR games have terrible starts, and if you judged them purely off the first few hours, you'd probably come to the conclusion that they aren't very fun. but those games both kick ass once you get your lightsaber and can hop around to different planets.

[@gumballsseizure8430]

12 hrs into kotor 2 and I’ve just got off peragus 💪

[@HarryO_Possum]

Well, KOTOR has the advantage of being a Star Wars game. You know what's to come, so that's enough to make a lot of people stick to it. Both games also come from a time where gaming wasn't saturated, so the issue definitely wasn't as noticeable then. Ultimately, though, intros are a very subjective thing. I don't mind Skyrim's intro. I don't love it, but I'm okay with replaying it. I cannot say the same about Fallout 4 (which I always use a fast start mod for) and especially not about Starfield. Never really minded KOTOR's, though - but I guess that's due to being a big RPG and SW fan. The game does definitely get more enjoyable after the first 5 or 6 hours.

[@suitspider2284]

Reminds me of some guy telling me I needed more than 100 hours in the RLcraft MC modpack for it to start “getting to the good part.” Like dude if the first 10 were a slog I’m just going to do something else thats actually fun.

[@karpai5427]

My condolonces to people that get recomended mr beasts videos. I never saw a single video of his.

[@kasterixprime]

In the case of games like Destiny I think if something about the feeling of the gunplay and base combat loop doesn't grab you right away, then there's a good chance you're probably still not going to like it all that much 100, 200, 300+ hours later either. I also feel like a lot of the "It gets good later!" people have attached themselves to some aspect of the game they're talking about that isn't really the game's doing. MMOs are a good example of this where people will often bring up about how great the community or such is as if it is in any way proof of the actual game itself being good.

[@GIOfgo]

Im glad im not the only one who thought this 😅

[@HorseArmour]

[@_.Mac._]

I completely agree with this as a concept; of not having to get to the good part. However, I disagree with cyberpunk. I found it to be a pretty good intro hook. I did nomad first playthrough, it immediately gave you the feeling of how hostile the world is, the danger your character is involved in. The sheriff being a dick to you, then bribing the border guard; and almost immediately getting into a shootout, then that little scene plays showing your past 6 months in NC, it was entertaining enough. Then the next mission you can skip the combat tutorial, and the scav rescue mission begins, and the hardest combat track ever drops, immediately making you want to drop stealth and go guns blazing, then after another car shootout, and the car ride cutscene the game world is open, there always felt like a fair balance between story and action, and that took what, an hour? Give or take depending how slow you are. After that point, I find the world pretty open and fun, plenty of good parts as soon as you get freedom, aside from story set pieces. Contrast this to my favourite elder scrolls game, oblivion. Even as a kid, I fuckin HATED the tutorial dungeon, it went on for so, so long. It may be the worst out of the 3 3D TES games. But people still love that game, as do I Anyway, great video as always bro, glad you liked stellaris lol, it’s the only Microsoft spreadsheet game I enjoy, if you’re looking for a cool new type of game (if you haven’t played it yet) check out kenshi!

Totally, I won’t do work when I’m supposed to be having fun 😂 this goes for any obvious repetitive grinding designed to extend playtime. I’m gonna cheat through it because I WILL NOT do unpaid busy work, I want to enter a different world. And personally I don’t mind a bit of slow burn start but there are limits…

[@Duendito]

I’m afraid to try new games because I’ve already sunk thousands of hours into Skyrim, Oblivion and ESO.

[@biochargedfrostbite2833]

Great video as always your steam graveyard will only get deeper

[@HorseArmour]

Hahahaha hope not

[@DoktorJammified]

Don't you know that games are supposed to suck for 100 hours until stockholm syndrome kicks in

[@datguy4131]

This is why i never got into MMOs, if your into them thats cool. When i rold my friend im not feeling WOW and they just tell me it gets good after 30 hrs.. i was out

[@HorseArmour]

I WISH I could enjoy MMO's dude

[@datguy4131]

@HorseArmour check out warframe or path of exile. They are both free but they arnt greedy and the old diablo 2 team made POE. BTW dope name

[@laranmithras7496]

Authors have it worse. A story has to connect within the first 4 sentences, or it likely goes unfinished.

[@HorseArmour]

I couldn't imagine the stress haha

[@TrC450]

On the flip side you get very good experience at start but rest is padding, instead of a full experience many have come to expect.

[@VerTheBonBonVoni]

Interesting when you compare red dead 2 and the witcher 3. I didn't wind the opening sequence of red dead 2 uninteresting in the slightest. I was very confused with some of the dialogue, with all the mentioning of people and events I had no idea about, but overall I found the dilemma the game puts you in pretty interesting. In that sense I didn't mind it. Plus, once you finish the game, you interpret the opening sequence wayyyyy differently on a second playthrough, which, for me, is added interest. My point is I think is that what is "interesting" is subjective. I can imagine for those final fantasy players there must've been some kind of hook that kept them playing, that you didn't see, or find that appealing. If you stopped playing it after a certain point, and they didn't, what's the cause of that difference?

[@quendimirlenintino9605]

I remember being skeptical about God of War 2018. Then that opening music hits, the pain in Christopher Judge's voice as he chops down the tree, then he looks at his bandages and rewraps his wrist. I was punched in the stomach with feels. Immediately knew i would love everything about the game and it didn't disappoint. That entire opening five hours was hit after hit. Another was Planescape Torment. The implied lore rich environment and soundscape draw you in once you exit the moratorium.

[@sehirosu4123]

Older people.. in their mid twenties.. xD I'm in my mid thirties. Guess I am a granny now ^^

[@OpoOnTheGo]

Hot take: if i played long enough to have a bad time... i played it long enough. People have limited free time, when that amount of time is blatantly disregarded I feel l can physically feel the devs fortnight dancing on my wallet. Letting players lick the spoon is truly the perfect analogy for giving a taste of the gameplay you ought to expect after the game really gets going. I feel like it's also a quite organic way to work in a tutorial... but it can clearly be q bit difficult to work into the story, especially with bethsoft style games

[@karpai5427]

8:40 Yeah we need Sponsor Block for video games that can skip the intro, cutscenes and filter out all of the embarasing dialogue.

[@jconley2795]

I get that RPGs want to immerse the player and introduce them to things in the world and can appreciate when it's done well, but a lot of times it feels like padding

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

Usually when I buy a game and install it to play I have a rough expectation of what I might get. Very rarely I go in blind, so the hook for me is already there. I make decision about being okay or not okay with a slowburn start or terrible tutorial. And it's fine. Deeper problems more often come up after the long hours of play, not immediately apparent and reviews don't always pick up on that. For some because they didn't play the game long enough. For others because they played the game a for a very long time and enjoyed it - they simply don't notice the flaws they don't care about.

[@FakeAdirTV]

damn bro REALLY loves oblivion and skyrim lmao

[@Genrevideos]

Even still I try to slog through a bad game for at least 5 hours before I can say the game is bad. But yes a game shouldn’t take 10 hours before it starts to get good! It doesn’t entirely need to grab your attention right away but it shouldn’t take forever before it starts to get good!

[@SpecShadow]

The whole "game gets good after X hours" thing is even worse when you're an adult with responsibilities (family, job etc) and that time to reach this point? Those are valuable minutes and hours that you will never get back. Sure you can play long games, but chance that you finish them? Is not great, even with massive dedication you hope that you won't get burnour before reaching final quarter of the game... when that happen even if you HAVE time you might just give up and play something else. Because despite all those preacher repeating "gaming is dying" (cause they only focus on AAA products that rarely care about fun) your backlog still grow.

[@vpapako]

I somehow found Starfield's beginning very interesting

[@nexalight599]

The right way to play starfield is just to steal the frontier and boot off Vasco (god i wish if i could go solo like that)

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

​@@nexalight599not even the dragon in skyrim could be booted off its script. That script is turned into the robot named vasco in starfield while the dragon or skyrim's tyranny in chopping your head off is the frontier's rockets landing and Barrett causing you to lose your job and thus your employer losing one "head" (headcount ie staff). And then the pirates coming down is that other skyrim dragon 🐉. The bandit the foreign king tyrany ie war. We saw this in starfield's opening. Rather than mythical creatures from elderscroll, the tropes were set in the timeline or universe lore of starfield post space race with the thinning factor, which bethesda uses to make us realise the limitations computational power in our age.

[@tekrit3249]

"Woah, a magic rock! This seems like a job for you, chosen one... why not take my spaceship too? You seem trustworthy for a person I met 5 minutes ago."

[@HarryO_Possum]

​@@tekrit3249that intro legitimately made me mad. I think a person with an ounce of creativity could write something more compelling after 5 minutes of sitting on the toilet.

[@Nuniixo]

Everyone also has different hook-ins, Fallout 4 is in my opinion a decent game, nothing spectacular, but the settlement building hooked me in within the first few moments

[@nexalight599]

when i wanna play something with a lengthy intro or something like that i just stop playing games in general and watching stuff for a day or less Boredom does wonders

[@HorseArmour]

Yeah sometimes it's good to take a week break, then you're ready to play something again.

[@shinobi197]

I was told by a family member that Starfield was actually interesting. I gave it a good hour, did the space segment, did the first quest, got some materials, scanned some animals. I quickly realized that that was it and quit playing it.

[@Ve55el]

Yer wrong bout cyberpunk especially now, but I hear ya.

[@HorseArmour]

Whatya like about it now? Not arguing I'm just curious!

[@Ve55el]

@@HorseArmour I think the writing is top notch, the sidequests are quirky and fun, and the over gameplay loop is enjoyable. Its like CyberSkyrim for me. Wander around and see what happens. And the flippin world is so pretty to look at and drive around.

[@SimuLord]

A game has two hours to grab my attention and interest. If a game wants more than two hours, the dev can go to Valve and lean on GabeN to lengthen the refund window.

[@RonnyAndersson-q9b]

Lies, I play between reloads.

[@SgtWilko1979]

It's a shame about Cyberpunk as it really is amazing now (probably the best game I played this year), but that launch was so horrible some people will never give it a chance (understandably). Final Fantasy 13, no... the systems were good, but the game was all bad, it got better after 20hrs but not GOOD.

[@fotnite_]

I actually feel the opposite way about Bethesda openings. I tried playing Skyrim, but the opening bored me to death. I hate when games start off with these shallow set pieces, and hate it even more when that's the main content there. It doesn't matter if it's flashy, it's ultimately a half-hour long unskippable cutscene, most of which I have no reason to even care about. Drop me in the start of a Dark Souls game, where I'm immediately in the game, even though the openings are not the most mechanically engaging, there's still enough mechanical engagement to be taken in on the first playthrough, not to mention that the atmosphere and story is basically on-point and doesn't waste your time. Skyrim's opening doesn't have mechanical engagement, and it doesn't have much story engagement either. Even The Last of Us, which has a pretty long opening that isn't very mechanically engaging, has a _ton_ of story engagement going on to pull me in. When I finished the Skyrim opening and then promptly refunded the game on Steam, I had a friend who told me the "it gets good 10 hours in" bullshit as well. And guess what? I bet a ton of people say the same thing about Dark Souls. Hell, I hated the start of Bloodborne, but the game got a lot better to me once I was leaving Yharnam about 10 hours in and now I think it's a fantastic game. A lot of the time we have games that most people can agree have bad openings, but a lot of the time we have different preferences, and what captivates one person could be dreadfully boring to another. And it's a lot more difficult to blame developers, or really to blame anyone, in those cases.

[@user-rh1bf5wd2y]

Will you talk about the controversy behind Fallout: Ashfall? Two writers for Fallout: Ashfall named Allout Monte and Krimson Graey discovered that the previous project lead was a transgender bisexual who wanted to inject pronouns and transgender level design into Fallout: New Vegas.

[@richardcreasey9319]

Good games WILL hook players within 10 hours, even IF they have slow starts. I always dread starting a new DA: Inquisition playthrough because of it's long-winded intro sequence, but I still love playing it because it's a good game at the end of the day. I don't ever remember being so bored on my first playthrough that I was wondering when the game was going to be fun. People are coping hard if they're defending a game by saying "just 10 more hours, bro I promise" when people are asking when the game gets good.

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Starfield hooked me. Most people attacking starfield like the sony ponies can be ignored. Other than that it was those who were confused that it took them several hours to comprehend the massive scale of the game. It was pure exploration & discovery into a new world of a game that was not liner handholding.

[@HarryO_Possum]

​​​​@@UmmerFarooq-wx4yoexploration that is completely repetitive and unrewarding. People don't enjoy doing the same 4 or 5 dungeons (POIs) over and over again. People don't enjoy walking around a huge planet where there's nothing to do except shoot the wildlife and engage hostile factions. "Comprehend the massive scale"? What the hell are you even on about? Since when does size make a game good? I can "comprehend" the scale of the game, and I reached the conclusion that its scale was detrimental to the overall experience. And "discovery"? Discovery of what? The 18th small variation of the same alien lifeforms I've seen in 30 other planets? Starslop would have been far better off with 3 or 4 systems and least 10 hand-made planets, instead of that extremely limited "procedurally generated" crap. Even No Man's Sky's exploration BTFOs Starfield's, since you can actually manually explore in that game, instead of having to constantly fast travel because the planets are too large to traverse otherwise (it also helps that NMS has a proper economy, as limited as it is - unlike Starfield's outdated "vendor has limited amount of credits. Sell items until depleted. Then wait for vendor credits to refill." economy, where they didn't even bother to add dynamic pricing for items). Want to go to the other side of the planet? Hop on your ship and pilot it there. Want to tame the alien wildlife and use it as a mount for easier traversal? You can. Want to hop onto your mech suit to mine resources? You can, also. You can't do any of that in Starfield. All the game has to offer is a very shallow gameplay loop of go to point A>kill enemies>grab their loot>store/sell the loot. Pair that with bad writing for quests and romances, and you get a thoroughly forgetable experience, which is why the game pulls worse numbers on Steam than Skyrim. Hell, I've been playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 and the exploration there is far better than Starfield's, too so far. I go out, I find POIs, I scavenge for resources, I engage hostile mutants and humans, I come across NPC encounters, I search for artifacts, I find new, unique gear. People like you are ultimately why Bethesda has gotten complacent and stagnated as a result. You're served a plate of crap and you thank them for it, then dismiss anyone complaining about the smell as just "haters", without actually refuting any of their points. Yours is consoomer behavior.

[@Poperconus]

Same with hell let loose and stellaris man 😂

[@whenimmanicimgodly4228]

5l4:31 every time ive played RdR2 at my friends i had a great time. Every time i started the game on my own i got bored out of my mind, ive wanted to play it for years but just cant get past the intro. Mods feel like cheating to me, and thus i will probably never play the game.

[@NotHappening-b8t]

in this day and age. i really feel 90% the main games should have some sort of demo.... because 1 games are so much more complicated now. its not 2d mario jumping from block to block lol so by the time you get through the basics u can easily be 10-20 hours into a game. Elite dangerous.. i played 20+ hours watched all their tip vids and other youtube channels so i sunk probably 10 hours of tutorial video time into my 20-30 hour game time before FINALLY getting a feel for the game. and starting to like it... ah yes 2... most games are way past simple 2 hour play time now. again we not limited to cartridges or cds.. vast open worlds, stories etc. i mean i just bought a game from 07 original stalker game. 5 gb game. says main quest can easily take 15 hours to play through.. most games i see last 20 years seem to avg 15-20 hours beat time. not including side quests or the fluff.

[@imbeast90]

I DIDNT ENJOY SKYRIM. Feels good to say it 😂

[@이하종-z4q]

modern gameing is facing bad storytelling crisis.

[@KratosisGod]

if a game can hook me in 5 hours then its good enough but if someone tells me the game gets good after anything greater that 5 - 10 hours I'm not touching that game its the reason I abhore survival games, MMOs and live service games.

[@StoicFlame]

i watched 40 seconds of your video and i disliked it and closed it.

[@Zinlain]

I do think some blame can be put on the people who say "you didnt get to the good part" or "didnt play it long enough". Like yes, "YOU" enjoyed the game ultimately, and there is some enjoyable aspects... later on. But it is a big ask in this hectic world to sink $70+ now on something that wont be enjoyable till weeks of play sessions go by. I understand why these gamers do it as they liked the game and dont want their favorite devs to go out of business but I think that is all the more reason to insist on having some hook or something to draw the players in. Which is why i always frame my game recommendations as "I liked this game but ". My go to example being "Deadly Premonition". By several objective standards it is a bad game: it has clunky controls, dated graphics/animation, plot that is bizarre. I enjoyed it anyway though. because it all just kind of works even with the flaws to make this very unique experience.

[@jaredrobinson7071]

I still haven't been able to get into cyber punk. I want to, everyone says it's awesome but, I just can't get into it. Same with outerworlds. And I honestly have no idea how I got through RDR2's intro. I only did it once.

[@HarryO_Possum]

Outer Worlds is slop. I recommend you watching Salt Factory's review on it, as he outlines a lot of the problems with it. Overall, it's just a bland game with mediocre writing. It's not really worth comparing it to Cyberpunk 2077 and RDR2.

[@lorenzoreyes3568]

@@HarryO_Possum I second this

[@sweetbabyrayso5262]

red dead 2 opening hours are slow, but its meant to be slow. I wouldnt put it in this discussion of "you didnt play it long enough" because it isnt slow for no reason like other games.

[@acev3521]

RDRD2 opening is like 5 hours if even less if yk what you are doing dopamine receptors are just non existant today lmao

[@sweetbabyrayso5262]

@ yeah the opening isn’t even that slow. It’s just not fast.

[@blankepiphany4154]

Dude my friend asked me to play elderscolls online, he just keeps saying after we grind that now i can actually play the game now, and then we grind more lol, tf

[@gusty7153]

yaa. a game is suppose to be fun to play from the beginning to end. too many designers spend too much making games into chores to artificially pad out the time. sandboxes atleast have the excuse that it's all about gathering resources to build up to absurd sillyness and they dont make the grind tedius and chorelike.

[@kashashk]

Grinding Gear Games (GGG) has left the chat. // this is just a joke, chill

[@FreeWeekendPlayer]

mostly the only time i see people say this is when it comes to reviewing games, like yea i agree if you dont like a game dont play it, its cool do what you want, but if you are reviewing a game and you only play an hour your review is allmost worthless compared to someone who took the time and played game completely. but outside of that i agree only a few exceptions like imo the persona games for some reason have a 2 hour long tutorial untill you can play the real game also nier automata a friend of mine quit the game on the tutorial b/c he died too much and it makes you restart everytime.

[@mikemoore5270]

i like you dog. But perhaps progressive storylines and themes just aren't your cup of tea. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a matter of preference really.

[@olsonbrandon91]

It's the devs fault for sure, but the idiots saying that stuff are defending what the devs made.. thus making them guilty by association imo haha

[@thedarkderp2520]

At the end of the day it's all subjective what one person finds interesting and fun is boring and a slog to someone else i mean starfield amazingly has fans and i think it's garbage but to each their own just play what you think is worth your time that's all

[@Calypso694]

my man just pissed of EVERYONE who loves Elder Scrolls, the witcher etc.

[@HorseArmour]

LMAO that was not my intent but it’s okay

[@dirkbsilver9260]

​@@HorseArmourI'm far from offended as I hate games that expect me to take a week or two to get into. I want to see the world and its grit soon or I feel shepherded to something other than the fun.

[@HorseArmour]

@@dirkbsilver9260 Yeah.. and it’s not even a “brainrot” issue. It’s an issue of games fooling you into making it past the refund threshold lmao.

[@65firered]

It gets good 10 hours in, 20 hours in, 50 hours in, on a second playthrough, if you turn off your brain, if you pretend you like it, if you do everything I tell you to do... And if none of that works, clearly you either didn't give it chance or don't understand it.

[@djstef4549]

Ehh I had a good time in cyberpunk on the series x and pc

[@GhostOfMJ-HeHe]

Anyone who says FF13 gets good after 20 hours is a liar.

[@HorseArmour]

😂

[@arkgaharandan5881]

"unpaid internship" \Its worse than that, you are a buyer, a consumer who paid full price or worse 100 bucks for early access to be a beta tester of an unfinished boring repettive game. PHOKIN PRONOUNS, MODERN DAY CALIFORNIAN SHT, BECAUSE THATS ALL WE PHOKIN NOW...To quote the starfield pronouns guy. He played it for 8 hours and went insane. As for cyberpunk, its funny because you can see how the game initially was gonna be like san andreas, and red dead redemption, you were suppose to do alot of jobs with jackie to start caring about him so when he died it would have more impact, instead they turned those jobs into a montage and the game was shorter than witcher 3. The reason oblivion start is so over the top was because the last 2 games morrowind and daggerfall were so boring, you had to spent 30-50 hours before you get it, morrowind is best when you have played it many times and you know what you are doing and which quests to do that are made for your class and where these quest are, meanwhile a new player has no idea what to do or where to go. Honestly fallout 4 failed hard at grabing you by forgetting the main quest and doing farming stuff. New vegas has perfected the pacing in their main quest, it never gets boring.

[@mikerochburns4104]

Bethesda games? Pfft... you have to go back over a decade for even their last mediocre attempt. Since FO4 they have sucked major cheeks.

[@Bullminator]

This is why you pirate :P

[@externalboss9404]

You pirate because you have a low attention span?

[@Bullminator]

@@externalboss9404 To Demo the game if its worth buying :P

[@dirkbsilver9260]

Many games over the years have failed to catch and keep my attention. Far too many to name them all, nearly all of them online multiplayer games. I love singleplayer games that gives me a world and story I can escapr into. Some of the best in a short list are: The First 3 Dragon Ages The original Mass Effect trilogy Final Fantasy Tactics The Original Zelda Final Fantasies 1-6 Morrowind Oblivion Skyrim Fall Outs 3, NV, and 4 The Pathfinder games Kingdom Come Deliverance Deus Ex Red Faction Time Splitters The 3 Assassin's Creed RPGs Greedfall All of the Unreal Games The Doom games Divinity Original Sin 2 The Witcher Series GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas, 4, and 5 Red Dead Redemption 2 The Original Dragon Warrior or Dragon Quest as its the same game. All of these gave me a world I wanted to explore and conquer because they had great starts for me, and stories that held my attention.

[@rancorlover]

Red dead redemption 2, the first chapter is boring

[@HorseArmour]

Yep!

[@JoelLeonhart]

Just play Tetris or old arcade games most of these takes are just bs against games with NARRATIVE/STORYTELLING aka you purposely play games (JRPG) that have a Storytelling focus.

[@viewtifuljoe4412]

Stockholm syndrome in a nutshell

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Sony pony Stockholm syndrome you mean. Because if it was as you are thinking and trying to claim, that more hours mean stockholm syndrome, then you are going to have stupid arguments like: the more i live my years the more i will like life and that's stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome only is appeasement to a threatening criminal force that holds you against your will and tries to fool you into defending it. That criminal force doesn't love you, youre just a resource to further it's protection. And we found that with all the sony ponies that held the gaming community hostage against starfield just because starfield wasn't on the ps5.

[@HorseArmour]

Yep! You got that right

[@kalypso4133]

if you didn't give it the time it needed, then that's on you. Not the games fault if you have so much brain rot you can't play a game for an hour for the plot to be setup.

[@HorseArmour]

If a game doesn’t respect my time and isn’t fun within the first 5 hours, you bet I’m not gonna continue to play it. I have a job and other responsibilities. And dude I play hundreds of hours of paradox and total war games, I’m used to nothing happening for a long time 😂 I love slow games that are simultaneously fun, I also love fast games that are fun.

[@HarryO_Possum]

Did my man seriously use Fallout 4 as an example of a good start, with that slogfest of an intro that nobody likes playing for a second time, then said "finding Shaun" - something players famously don't give a rat's ass about (why would you? You were told that you have a son... which you spend about 30 seconds with in total and thus have neither time nor reason to actually care about him being kidnapped) - is a hook? Lol. Lmao, even. That one bad point was almost enough to undermine the entire video.

[@rabbidjeremy9193]

Cyberpunk 2077 sold 30 million copies and is one of the better games to come out in the last 10 years. Perhaps mobile games are more your thing.

[@discordedwhoofs7873]

To he fair man, he was talking about launch cyberpunk. That was bad. This is coming from someone who loves and I mean loves cyberpunk, but the thing is, I waited for 2.0 to come out to even bother touching that game. For a lot of people, cyberpunk is a tainted well, and no matter how much you clean up that well, the people who drank from it won't come back for seconds.

[@HorseArmour]

I was referring to the launch, I even said in the video it's a much better game now. I appreciate your engagement and would be willing to further discuss this with you without any low blows

[@spliffingrat5469]

people told me "skyrim gets good"... and then i was done with the game and sidemissions and get super disapointed that i now get robbed by my own clansmembers.. CP2077 streetkid intro is good. the other 2 are too slow IMO. after that it was even at launch way better than any modern game from ubisoft, bethesda, EA etc... yes performance was bad. but it still was better than starfield tbh, considering the insane difference in size... bethesda could never create night city that runs stable at all above 30 FPS starfield could become good even after 10h of mainstory... i couldnt sit through the first 2h lol "pirate questline"? more like undercover cop acting like a pirate... then after each mission go through 10 loading screens, just so you can continue... at the end it always depends on the game. i sat through +1000h till i was able to somewhat enjoy "escape from tarkov". the reward? becoming better at the game, learn about the lore and make friends. im an adult. if i want ice cream and cookies for dinner, i dont have to eat veggies i dislike, bevor i eat the things i want. i just buy ice cream and cookies... and if the cookie brand now sells veggies in their pack, that only unlocks the cookies after i ate the veggies... well i just get a different cookie brand then right? the time is over where there wasnt enough options to not have to sit through hours of mid to bad or terrible gameplay and story... AAA started to make those games we never played on old consoles and wonder why we wont buy them for full price. if writer cant write good stories, dont include them... fire them and get a better one cuz i aint buying their mid shiid.... cuz "good" is often "aight" and not "damn thats good"