You don't need to study grammar to learn to speak a foreign language

[@shezalright4217]

Why does this not have more views my man? I just finished reading a page and then I came to watch this video and I realized - it was your blog! I agree 100 percent with what you're saying. My sister took Spanish all four years of high school, taking notes and practicing everyday, and she still does not know a word of Spanish! Go figure! I've been studying Spanish for three weeks and I noticed a few days ago that I didn't know a lick of Spanish. Then I observed my four year old brother and finally realized that he could speak full sentences and understand me perfectly, and he's not even been to school yet! So I tried memorizing a phrase explaining in Spanish where I'm from and it worked! I'm trying this method from now on.

[@TVTheHumanAI]

I took stephen krashens and your method. I have been studying japanese for eight months. The first six months and a half I was studying grammar and wasn't improving well. I learned stuff but I hit some sort of peak. Then I came across both of your theories I applied it. I have been communicating with Japanese natives writing and talking to them in japanese I have made jokes they laughed! All I do now is mine sentences and ask natives how do you say this what does this mean. Thanks to the both of you my japanese has improved drastically and the natives who I speak to once every other week have been impressed with my progress. Sure I get nervous when I speak and tend to forget at times but I tell them exactly that in japanese ごめんなさい 日本語を話す時 緊張します。 Japanese will be my third language. Spanish was my second I learned spanish sort of the same way I asked my cousins and other family members how to say things when I was younger. Thats how I picked it up sure its broken at times I mix up feminine and masculine words especially el and la. But I am a much better speaker than your average gringo who picks it up. You learn languages by interacting with natives not studying grammar. I feel like I wasted those first six month studying japanese grammar should have done what I did with spanish since the start. now I only put about 1 hour or 2 on grammar. I'm in my late 20s by the way.

[@sklanguage589]

Grammar study in no way helps kids to read. It only helps you write if you already know that what you wrote ‘sounds wrong,’ and then you can remember your English teacher saying, “Never end your sentences with prepositions.” Those instances happen once in a blue moon. Those kids who could read English but couldn’t understand normal, basic spoken English were used to reading a lot and hadn’t listened to much good English.

[@maziadchazbek541]

I’m happy 👀 was my day email address thanks for your

[@SophyaAgain]

I've learned English just by reading, listening and using dictionary. The only time I attended a language school was when I was the UK. I needed it in order to stay there for 11 months. And I got the Cambridge Certificate of Advanced English. Now I do study grammar to improve even more my English.

[@betavulgaris7888]

It's a bit like how in French we say 'Qu'est-ce que...' which essentially just means 'what' but most people never know what the individual part means. Because that's how language works - this thing *means* this. It doesn't matter why.

[@useruser_notinuse]

I fucking love you! I agree, i won't learn grammar first when studying a foreign language

[@tullochgorum6323]

This does make sense. It reminds me of the way you learn to play fast on a musical instrument. You don't think of playing each note individually. You break the tune into clusters of patterns (phrases), and learn to throw the fingers down for the patterns as a single movement.. Then you learn to link the patterns together. You practice common patterns like scales and arpeggios till they become automatic. These patterns make up a substantial percentage of any tune, so learning new repertoire becomes progressively easier. As your vocabulary of patterns grows, you can focus on expression rather than the mechanics of note production. Jazz players develop a large vocabulary of personal patterns, and when they improvise they are largely stringing the patterns together in structured but original sequences.

[@eruno_]

completely agree, I first learned English by just listening and reading. It was all learned intuitively by simple immersion.

[@eruno_]

*****​ I translated some words in my mind, but that's all. I was all intuitive

[@alessandrorick]

コイノ/ I learnd English just to watching KZbin and learning sentences but I'm now trying to lern Japanese and I think I'll need to lern at least the basic grammar

[@bhanuchandwani1645]

@@eruno_ aAAAAaaQ🔇

[@HotCarTrack]

I'm 3 months into learning Thai and bought all the books which have been great in learning the Thai Alphabet etc.... however now I'm turning this on it's head and learning from listening, watching and massive repetition of short sound patterns and have to say this seems to be working for me. Prior to this, I thought I needed to have my head buried into books, which I still think is needed along side of passive learning. Cheers mate👍

[@danitaaaas]

When I was a kid, I kept speaking English even though I was batshit bad at it and my grammar was so bad. But now I speak English like a native speaker :) All by listening, reading, and talking

[@giffiyt]

here i am watching a video in a foregn language to help me study other foreign language.... i just learned english from youtube videos. my english grades weren't that great but still i spoke better than most of in my class -.-

[@rinyo1975]

The mistakes i've been doing and is in our college.. it's time to change the approach. Thank you! :)

[@nicolescott89]

Agree. I'm learning Italian and yes the grammar I'm learning is helping but half of it I won't use I don't think. I like to know things in relation to english and to improve my vocabulary. I'm in florence and can hear so much more. I like to watch things with subtitles and will try my hardest to become more conversational. Through trail and error. But thanks for the encouragement

[@kublaifr]

Hi mate. Your videos are very very good. Keep up the good work. Thumbs up.

[@Aditya-te7oo]

If someone asks me "how to learn a language ?", then I'd just say - first learn basic grammar and vocabulary in your target language, after learning that, just immerse (both listening-watching immersion and reading immersion but mainly listening-watching immersion) and keep a dictionary (physical or app) for checking words.

[@jimmorrison2657]

You are right mate. Most native speakers don't know what an insubordinate clause is, even though they use them correctly every day. This is defo the way forward.

[@PimsleurTurkishLessons]

pimsleur method is good to learn a language native way

[@medicinalfriedchicken6542]

my opinion is that you need to learn both grammar and the actual language. for instance russian requires you to know lots of endings for adjectives whose use depends on the context of the word being described and it's gender. without learning those endings, you can't use any adjectives in russian when creating new sentences.

[@ibarix]

Pimsleur doesn't agree.

[@patrickmcnally1532]

A great podcast Donovan. But regarding adult learners who manage to acquire a large arsenal of words, phrases and lexical chunks. I am speaking here about self taught or 'teach yourself learners' who probably went to languages classes and listen to the target language on the radio and TV. These people ( like myself) have a good passive or theoretical knowledge of the language say up towards intermediate level. This has been acquired by intensive listening and repeating to themselves ( out loud ) the comprehensible input they get from their learning resources. They have used the lexical approach that you have been speaking about in your podcast. But this is not enough to get them to a good conversational level of fluency. They are in a better and stronger position than people who studied grammer. Obviously Donovan the next step is to get interaction on a daily basis in the target language and this can be easier to say than do if you are self taught. I know you go to Oideas Gael in county Donegal in Ireland and that is some distance from Australia! This comment is just about learners who go for the grammer approach in language learning and other students who use your lexical approach of chunking. I will have to find a language parent on Italki but at the moment I haven't got the electronic gear to do this. Self taught learners using the chunking method must take this important step to interact and speak the language with a native speaker as soon as possible. I hope you enjoy yourself and have good time when you return to Ireland. Patrick

[@CAENECSE]

This is so true

[@TheFiestyhick]

Thanks for the info

[@jackluo3355]

I consider that you'd better give grammar another chance.(and I'm straight in saying my opinion.) As far as I know, it's exactly an analytical mind that make adults distinct from children ( and this actually give extra strength for an adult to learn a foreign language. Otherwise it would take them far more times of effort and repetence to achieve fluency, and that would somehow exhaust them ). There are crucial differences between a baby and an adult learner, though there are also critical identities. The idea of lexical chunks is valid, and we should pay full attention to it. Your method of 'chunking ' is amazing. What I argue is that language is just a code system that is made up by a mass amount of separate 'patterns'--these refers parallely to grammar, vocabulary, collates, and lexis. Language is just a system to 'transform' inner logic of the common human mind to the outer 'parameters'. And absolute fluency is based on every parameters being set up correctly. You will be floppy and disjunctive if any of these 'transformations' failed to be established clearly. I think the failure of conventional teaching is mostly due to the method of teaching patterns, e.g, grammar, vocabulary, idoms, phrases, etc. If you initially or proactively recognize a pattern in a context, and immediately give a lot of sentences or examples in the same way these patterns fall in, you will figure out the whole sense of them easily, even without knowing the names of the rules or definition of the words. The latter ones are actually not valid in setting up transformations--thus can be bypassed, but taking a sound grasp of a specific pattern cognitively is important. We can achieve this by intuition, but nevertheless you still need to work on it.

[@daysandwords]

Ye Luo - I think it's quite telling that you advocate for a grammatical approach, yet you make a large number of grammar errors here in this comment. I am going to guess that you're from an Asian country, and I know (because my students tell me) that most of the Asian countries love to teach English grammar, yet most of the most fluent speakers of English who are Asian by birth, ditched 'grammar' at an early age and just copied what they heard.

[@LiamPorterFilms]

@@daysandwords I'm a native speaker yet do not see what errors you mean.

[@daysandwords]

@@LiamPorterFilms - Without checking the comment that I originally made, I thought that I must have been commenting on Donovan's grammar in this video, so I listened to the whole thing again while looking for errors haha, and then I was confused because I only heard two, and they are not really "real" errors. But I now see that I was commenting on Ye Luo's grammar. Really? You don't see errors here? "I'd consider that you'd better give grammar another chance." - Yes OK, maybe this is "correct" but it's not he meant. He means: "In my opinion, you should give grammar another chance." "I would consider" carries a different connotation. "and I'm straight in saying my opinion". I think he means "I am just being direct." or "I am just being upfront." "As far as I know, it's exactly an analytical mind that make adults distinct from children." - should be "As far as I know, an analytical mind is just the thing that make adults distinct from children." - Saying it in the order he said it carries a different meaning and really doesn't add up to a logical sentence. "and this actually give"...? Really? Foogafoog... Come on now, you can see an error there. "Otherwise it would take them far more times of effort and repetence to achieve fluency..." - ??? We are getting into pretty ridiculous territory if you genuinely think that this is in any way idiomatic, correct English. "and that would somehow exhaust them". - This would mean that no one knows why it's exhuasting. I think he means "and this will obviously be exhausting." "There are crucial differences between a baby and an adult learner, though there are also critical identities." - Hahaha... you what now? I guess he means 'similarities'. "Parallely..." - Yeah, you can't use parallel as an adverb. And so on, and so on. Foogafoog - perhaps you thought I was making a comment about Donovan's grammar? Donovan is Australian, as am I, so he and I sound almost identicial. (except I refuse to say "the reason why"...", it's "the reason that..."

[@LiamPorterFilms]

@@daysandwords I wouldn't call most of those grammatical mistakes so much as imperfect wordings. If this was a discussion of vocabulary acquisition you might have had a case- yet your actual point: that he is a prime example of an incompetent grammar-focussed language student - is weak, since he is clearly a competent and eloquent non-native speaker, without clear deficiencies wrt grammar. That all said, it was Donovans contention that the grammar-obsessed would find it hard to speak competently, not go write decently.

[@phes1enmi]

I totally agree with this!

[@elidel3299]

i agreed

[@thevitruvianman9781]

Nice

[@HallyuHagdom]

I LOVE THIS! (yes I'm shouting).

[@HallyuHagdom]

I was learning to speak Korean using an app on my phone. It was great. Learning words on a flash card system then gradually becoming phrases etc. I have a good memory. It was working. I was starting to recognise patterns and predicting how the phrases would end (question/statement) etc. Then I decided to do a 'course' through a Korean university. But it's just all grammar. I feel like I've come to a screeching halt. I don't have time to sit down and watch the videos and read the notes. With the app I could use it anywhere and anytime,, and I loved using it. My accent is pretty bloody good too. People who had visited Korea were commenting on how good my accent was. But since I decided to do the course I've now done NOTHING for 2 months. It's just so boring. I'm ditching it and just going back to my app. Thanks for this. I need to remember this. My goal is to speak and understand Koreans.

@@HallyuHagdom What is the name o this app? And do you recommend Memorizing words and letters before memorizing sentences because words and letters will help in your way of making good sentence structure and also to improve your understanding of any article i read and also to understand any video u watch on the internet which will make me good at learning any language? or it is not the way to go ?

[@maziadchazbek541]

Thanks I’m happy to be with you for my email thanks

[@maziadchazbek541]

Thanks I’m happy for you I’m glad to see that

[@mrwhi71]

Lol you're right i learn english just by watching a lot of cartoons hahahahah

[@fezalikhan]

learn Chinese, because Chinese don't have fast and hard rules of grammar, simply "shi" and "le" can make almost all sentences

[@bagsy4884]

This is so true

[@Cheesesandwhich33]

This is so true