You Pig! EPIC: The Musical "Circe Saga"

[@siefnour1017]

This man is probably my favourite reactor who reacts to EPIC tbh

[@DrakeDragonton]

True. Firstly, he knows the story enough to appreciate it fully, secondly, he lets the music illustrate the story first before seeing any animatic which means I don’t have to re-see Al, the animatics for the millionth time and get his cool ideas for the visuals, letting the music speak for itself.

[@DrakeDragonton]

*all

[@karma_pup]

I love hearing his reactions and pulling from his story knowledge to compare the two. It's so fun seeing someone who knows this story well and can point out where the story deviated a bit in order to make it more interesting or fuller for the musical.

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@karma_pup Agreement harbored within me

[@shumpytastic3577]

AGREED

[@TheLeafcuter]

Actually, EPIC does a major deviation in the Circe saga here, because Odysseus *doesn't* go along with Circe's temptation! When Ody sings "I can't!" he pushes her off of him, after remembering his wife back home (which is why Penelope's theme is brought in with the strings!) Circe shows him mercy, because he defied her expectations - that being that she expected him to be "piggish" and sleep with her just like so many other men would've done. And also; It hasn't been 12 years (in this version of the story anyway), it's still only been 10 years so far! The "twelve long years" line was a mistake, and when Jorge was asked where those two extra years went he just went "oh oops" and now it's a fandom in-joke lmao, and in-character that Odysseus has actually lost track of the time. There's a few theories behind it, but one popular one is that Polites used to be the one to keep track of the calendar, so that he could remember everyone's birthdays. But now he is gone :(

[@aadityayanamandra8846]

To expand on the Circe thing, she fully intended to kill him while his guard was down. Him rejecting her despite her use of magic to entice him shows her his moral character.

[@aadityayanamandra8846]

Oh, and to reply to my own reply here, there is no 1-year timeskip on Aeaea like there is in the Odyssey.

[@Salinaut]

Also in Different Beast, Ody says "About 12 years or so," likely to a)wink at the fans who picked up on that, and b) to hint that Ody has just... lost track (Also, Polites had the calendars >.>)

[@FrostyTheSnowPickle]

You could say that Polites was counting his days...

[@edword_gemini]

Aww thinking of Polites keeping track of everyone's birthdays is so wholesome it warms my heart, just like whoever is the voice of him in this musical.😭😭

[@MewDenise]

I think Jorge made the right choice when he decided that Ody is completely loyal to Penelope. If he had slept with her I don't think as many people would still like his character in this musical

[@boopsy4439]

I loved that, too. I didn't like Hamilton because he was a ho 🤣 I know it was like that in history, I guess. But when he was shot I was like "That's what you get 😤" - I love that this musical is more like an ultimate love story even if they're apart for 20 years

[@blueteller]

Aside from making him sympathetic to modern audience, it actually makes more sense story-wise. Calypso? She had a reason to want to force Ody, being lonely and possessive is her characterization. But Circe? Why would SHE want Ody when he just tries to kill her?? Narratively, it makes much more sense if she tried to trick & stab him instead.

[@ayoutiecutie36]

And plus from what I read Odysseus was basically forced/pressured into sleeping with Circe. He's a victim in many of these situations. It wasn't exactly something he was thrilled to do so I wouldn't call it "cheating"

[@hadrianhexe9603]

​@@ayoutiecutie36I'd agreed but with Circe, I feel like people keep forgetting he didn't have to sleep with her, he had her defeated, she offered sex and accepted. In situations like with Calypso tho, yes he was pressured

[@TeatimeToad]

@@hadrianhexe9603 If I remember correctly, I heard multiple people say that Hermes told him that he needed to accept Circes offer. I wont cant say this is 100% true but if it is true it makes the whole thing not his choice, and him being again "forced" by the Gods, just like Calypso

[@trystaseale3867]

I really like that you are the first reaction to mention that Ody was not consenting, Hermes forced him to sleep with her, he is an SA victim and I'm so tired of people saying he cheated because at that point they are victim blaming. Thank you so much for bringing it up, coercion is not consent

[@hadrianhexe9603]

When did Hermes force him?

[@trystaseale3867]

@hadrianhexe9603 "When Circe strikes you with her wand, draw your sword and spring upon her as though you were going to kill her. She will then be frightened and will desire you to go to bed with her. On this you must not point-blank refuse her, for you want her to set your companions free"

[@hadrianhexe9603]

@@trystaseale3867 I just read the portion of the poem. That wasn't forcing, he was giving him instructions on what he could do. That isn't sexual assault. That's like saying if i say "hey, if you want to that person to do something nice for you, speak politely", then i'm forcing you to speak politely. That is to say, he is a victim, Calypso saw to that. But we can't go around all these equating situations to assault, it's a disservice to actual cases of it, especially in the context of the play, where Circe and/or her nymphs were victims themselves and the whole reason for Circe acting the way she does (cursing men) is because she's protecting them from such a thing happening again.

[@TeatimeToad]

​@@hadrianhexe9603 I'd 100% argue that it still is not cheating. If you consider the theme of the Odyssey regarding the Gods, it is made clear that there is no fighting against them. While yes, Hermes did technically "just say" that, It was quite literally his only option. If a literal God tells you that this is the only way you don't argue against that. Ody doesn't know if she might have another trick if he refused, or something would happen to him, and at this point he is still on good terms with his crew, so he of course tries to save every man he can, so it is pretty much not even an option to refuse. But I ofc get what you are saying, Circe is also a past victim, but in that moment Ody is not wanting to cheat, but rather tries to save his men and get home safely in the only way he knows how

[@BeyondTrash-xe1vs]

​@@hadrianhexe9603sorry but directing someone to have sex with another person to save the lives of your friends and men, can in no way be considered a consensual interaction. You don't get to take hostages and then have consensual intercourse.

[@kittycatzuka]

Funny fact is that the "12 long years" was actually a mistake on Jorge's part, he just didn't realize until after the saga had already come out. The common headcanons within the fan base is that Odysseus either added a couple years to gain Circe's sympathy, or that he's bad at math. And that Polites was in charge of keeping track of time.

[@TheLeafcuter]

fun fact! Jorge and the voice for Circe are actually dating IRL! I imagine those duets were so much fun to record for them

[@liminalpsych]

I believe they started dating *after* recording those, if I remember correctly :D though everyone was commenting on the chemistry in the videos they did for There Are Other Ways

[@DianaDxD]

He also released this saga on Valentine's Day forever setting the standards in my opinion🥲

[@DianaDxD]

​@liminalpsych yeah they started dating right as he was started writing this musical. I follow both of them on Tik Tok and whenever she posts about anything Jorge is always the first to comment and it's always a form of "I love you" or "You're the girl of my dreams" it's so adorable!!!😭

[@ShyyGaladriel]

Hamilton WISHES he had said no to this the way Odysseus did in Epic!!!!

[@amandahibbs3690]

I love that you have background insight to the original (overtranslated) poem. So you know what’s happening. I will say ody has the patience of a saint with all the insubordination from his 2nd. And i’m having to hold my tongue for spoilers

[@nayramaaguiar7988]

And that's before you remember that ody is captain and KING and what they did was like treason.

[@MrSmile078]

To be fair, if Poseidon sinks most of my fleet because my captain pissed him off, I'd be pretty skeptical of his decision making as well. I think it's easier to forget Odysseus' many mistakes because he's the main character and we know what's going on in his head, but to a normal person looking in from the outside, the guy is already cursed and if I was on his crew, I'd ditch him the moment I knew he was the one who put a target on our backs.

[@aquariamoon2451]

@@MrSmile078 I agree! I get where people are coming from with the hierarchy stuff- but I'm sorry that doesn't mean people should never/are never allowed to question their superiors? If your leader is showing poor leadership skills and recklessness after losing his best friend (and lateron even downright being willing to sacrifice his men to get himself home) isn't it kind of your whole job as a second in command to safeguard the rest of the crew?

[@rivendells_shona]

@@aquariamoon2451I think it’s the struggle of digesting a story written by and for an ancient mindset (in which kings were considered divinely appointed) through a modern mind. And even in modern sensibilities, a second in command challenges their CO privately. Doing so in front of the crew/unit further damages morale-just because it brings down their faith in the commander doesn’t mean it increases their faith in his second. Not holistically. It may just leave them feeling leaderless-and that can prove f@tal in a dangerous environment. There’s also the aspect that Eury wanted to raid the island of the lotus and eaters first and ask questions later; he opened the wind bag before he knew Poseidon was after them; and he was ready to abandon several of their men before confirmation of their ends to save his own skin. Ody has the fatal flaw of hubris: he genuinely thinks he can scheme his way out of every situation. And like all kings of his time, he has an arrogance problem. But Eurylochus is equally flawed. That's part of the point of the story. Every main character serves as a warning.

[@songhuy8908]

@@aquariamoon2451 It’s not that, it’s that he did in PUBLICLY. Like, you don’t argue with your king and captain in public 😭 You talk to him in private when you’re both calm and can properly have that conversation

[@icemagiciangh]

Some fun details for you- The “OOOHHHH!” is Odysseus. It shows the Molly taking effect. In an official livestream release, sometimes the events were written alongside the lyrics. This one says “Odysseus eats the flower and starts to glow. POWER UP!” And when battling Circe, it said “BOSS BATTLE- CIRCE” During “There are others ways” a guitar is completely absent. Circe took back all control. Also, when they summon their creatures to battle, Circe brings a chimera. Odysseus summons the worst thing he can think of to bring down a goddess- a cyclops.

[@icemagiciangh]

The harp at the very beginning hitting the tune of “we should try to find a way no one ends up dead” will always be a gut punch

[@somethingthatexists4797]

Also the tune of “and ithica’s waiting- my kingdom is waiting- Penelope’s waiting for me”

[@SquirrelGirl13]

I like that Odyssus, in Puppeteer, clearly knows, on some level, what Eurylochus was going to confess and knows he can't hear it right now. "There's only so much left we can endure." It can wait until he has processed what has happened.

[@paulsmith410]

There are a lot of departures from the original. Jorge has pointed it out and discussed it before. I normally don't like when writers change a story but it really works for the character arc that Jorge is going for. In the right hands it works great.

[@DrakeDragonton]

I just understood the string/puppet connection. I am so dumb. Thank you for opening my eyes.

[@alexispincock7409]

Your reactions are some of my favorite ones to watch!!

[@karena5122]

So in the original story Polites is still alive?? Jorge when I catch you Jorge :''' I loved your reaction to this saga, this part is hilarious

[@giant_pigeon]

Lmao fr he actually gets murdered by Achilles son. Lol

[@outlandishmortal4164]

@@giant_pigeon I forgot his son’s name but I remember him being a jerk. But, lowkey, I would be too if my father was Achilles.😂

[@songhuy8908]

@@giant_pigeon I think that’s another guy named Polites ?? Since that one was a prince of Troy and our Polites is very much not lol

[@DrakeDragonton]

Someone may already have said this, but in Done For Circe summons a Chimaera which fights the Cyclops that Odysseus summons with the moly. That;s what the roars in the background are, including the big “fwoom’ before he draws his sword. It’s the Cyclops basically suplexing the chimaera with his club.

[@dianneantos480]

Each Saga just keeps bringing it!! The strings and harps are mostly used when a god/goddess is singing. Thanks for adding actual poem bits along the way.

[@dormishaeli]

Ive said it before - but your analysis and reaction from being familiar with the source so much is amazing!!

[@PatrolNation]

Thank you for watching.

[@WhitepawWolfGaming]

It didn't occur to me until this reaction but I think Odysseus on some level knew what Eurylochus wanted to confess too but just didn't want to believe it, which is why he sent him away.

[@briannapadilla7622]

The common theme when a human has an interaction or quote on quote divine intervention from a god of goddess is that there is always a hidden motive they don't ever do anything because they're kind and they want to genuinely help they always have some reason some lessons some other behind the scenes under the table reason to why they're doing what they're doing when a lot of time it's either really cruel or really messed up

[@mrdiamondore1014]

Honestly, "Wouldn't You Like" is my favorite song of the Circe Saga.

[@briannapadilla7622]

If you ever watch the animatics made by Gigi the facial expression in Odysseus has on his face when he said what is the funniest facial expression I ever seen I instantly laughed when I seen how Gigi drew the facial expression when he said what it was hilarious if you ever wanted to check out the animatics I highly recommend for puppeteer to watch Gigi's

[@aquill5000]

There's some jokes that Eurylochus had the best woman voice because he was telling the story of what happened! 😂 so people like to make jokes that Eurylochus was the one singing as Circe for the puppeteer(Sorry if it wasn't clear)

[@MewDenise]

Probably my favorite saga

[@andronixbegayaf]

Same!

[@alexeysimushov4971]

Next week, August 30, next (Wisdom Saga) saga comes out. You still have to react to underworld, saga, and thunder saga. You are one of my favorite reactors because you give insights on the original and I’m very excited for you to react to the other sagas!

[@ItsKindryte]

While in the original story Oddy slept with Circe, Mr. Jalapeno decided to go a diffrent route, having Odysseus reject Circe, which earned Circe's respect.

[@tsutomumybeloved7411]

Odysseus was actually SA’d

[@lexmcdaniel926]

He didn’t really sleep with her. She SA’d him and was unwilling

[@Psych0t1cs]

I simply cannot wait to watch you react to the rest of the sagas, I love your content

[@danylonazarov]

God, to wait week before each reaction is tough, but every time it's worth it. What a trainwreck is Underworld going to be...

[@DrakeDragonton]

I love how in Epic, Odyesseus is faithful to his wife. If he wasn’t, then it would completely negate his want of getting home to her, since he clearly doesn’t care about her that much if he cheats. But instead he stays strong, denying Circe and then Calypso for 8 years.

[@PatrolNation]

If you know the original story it's a major change.

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@PatrolNation Yeah, and that’s why I’m glad Jorge changed it, because ancient Odysseus was infidelidous and that makes his resolve questionable.

[@trystaseale3867]

@@DrakeDragonton In the original he was coerced and forced, that isn't cheating, that's SA, he's not "infidelitous" he's a victim

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@trystaseale3867 Odysseus is a big a** man. Anything that happened to him by Circe he took part in. He coulda killed her while they “got into bed” as they say.

[@trystaseale3867]

@DrakeDragonton not the victim blaming

[@andronixbegayaf]

Honestly Circe Saga is my favorite. All the songs are bangers, story is great and both Hermes and Circe slayed

[@betsyv207]

Love your reactions! The music is absolutely amazing, the small details are perfect!!

[@Sketch_3003]

Absolutely love your reactions! Im glad your listening withiut the animatics, its rewlly noce to see someone focus on the music

[@quillzink6863]

Love this🎉🎉🎉 you’re about to get to my second favorite saga!! Thunder saga is my #1 but I’ll be damned if The Underworld Saga doesn’t slap hard as hell. 😂

[@MakiaLink]

I can't wait to see your "underworld" and "Thunder" sagas!!!!

[@PatrolNation]

Underworld is on the channel

[@Thatonefannoonelikes]

QUEENSLAND?! No way!! I’m also from Queensland- that’s sick!!

[@shumpytastic3577]

You’ve become my favourite reactor AND I JUST FOUND OUT U LIVE IN QUEENSLAND! I’m gonna assume that’s Australia cause I’m also from here. That’s so cool!

[@ansatsushi2834]

btw you got rick roll'd without knowing it @10:43

[@andronixbegayaf]

I love how you'll be able to watch the Wisdom saga only 2 weeks after it's release. After that you'll need to wait with us I guess lol

[@skywatcher8893]

Man I love the Circe Saga so much.

[@funnyguyiswear6910]

Cant wait for the underworld saga!

[@maritalll]

Love your reactions ✨

[@toxicengie6166]

Love your reactions and commentary! My one note is that your voice sounds quite a bit quieter than the music.

[@АлександрТозлован]

Man you need to watch animation for this songs.

[@Seer_Of_The_Woodlands]

Great video !

[@malenejensen02]

So when is the next video?! 😁

[@andronixbegayaf]

So far he's done it weekly so probably Underworld saga is in 7 days, Thunder saga in 14 and Wisdom in 21!

[@briannapadilla7622]

From the things I've read he did without thinking twice and he also might have had kids with her seat and wasn't thinking about leaving until the his crew convinced him be like look we got to get home he was content there until someone gave him a reality check that's what I read I could be totally wrong but I know for a fact that he did not say no

[@dragansnyder2786]

The First time he blatantly had no choice in it, and cersei may have used her magic to seduce l him for over a year, I don't know if this is Cannon but I know it makes the incident with Calypso make a lot more sense, because obviously if Odysseus has no problem cheating on his wife, he would have simply had sex with Calypso rather than refusing her and having her assault him everyday for 7 years to the point that he cries himself to sleep

[@juanjogrimaldos7463]

​@@dragansnyder2786 With Calypso is different, because she had the power in that relation. It was seen as Odysseus was humilieted in the worst way, he was a man, and a king, completely dominated by a woman, because while man were just superior to women (to greeks from that era) no mortal man could stand up to a godess.

[@dragansnyder2786]

@@juanjogrimaldos7463 I actually got to this part in The Odyssey, and the translation of the Odyssey that I'm listening to frustrates me, because in one breath it talks about how Odysseus is crying himself to sleep at night because Calypso is forcing herself on him, and then it goes on to say that the last night they spent together he willingly had sex with her, I get why people find it a little bit harder to root for Odysseus because his , characterization is rendered inconsistent by the translations we have (and this one kind of upsets me because he's been getting sexually assaulted for 7 years and then he just willingly has sex with her on the last night they're together, that is not something an actual person would do)