You're WRONG about MARTIAL ARTS

There are a few common themes in the comments of my videos expressing the idea that if an art competes it cannot be a proper martial art.
Obviously I'm not gonna let the opportunity for a nice rant slip me by so here goes...

[@duggy1345]

My thoughts on this are I have been unfortunate enough to have been involved in both “street” fights and competitive martial arts “sport” fights. Bottom line is the street fights were much easier to control both physically and mentally due to the exposure to “Sport” based fighting. Someone trying to knock you out is as real in the ring as it is in the street, mentally the same pressures it’s just what’s at stake is potentially very different

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Exactly.

[@torstenscott7571]

That has been my overall experience as well. I have had violent encounters in corrections environments that were dangerous due to the unpredictability of the fight (weapons, multiple assailants, drug use), but typically the average "street fighter" is an emotionally stunted drunk with no social skills and an attitude. In contrast, most sport fighters that I have trained with are fit, determined, sober, and strategic.

[@hov4ratl129]

I don’t think you ever been in a ring or a cage learn before you speak

[@duggy1345]

@@hov4ratl129 I have that’s my point your either trolling me or you can’t read either way your entitled to your opinion

[@hov4ratl129]

@@duggy1345 hmm yea sure

[@5snakeCQT]

Nice vid! I think the point that some armchair warriors are trying to make when they say "sports MA are no good for the streets" is that an encounter in the ring is almost an entirely different beast than being assaulted "in real life". Witness the reaction of UFC fighter Anthony Smith after suffering aggravated assault in his home: "you think you're such a bad ass...I just don't feel like one I feel...insufficient a little bit. I didn't know it was possible to be that terrified." He outweighed the intruder by about 30 pounds. He said "...he took everything I gave him: every punch, every knee every elbow...and kept fighting me". Sports MA are of course hugely effective for the most part: but they don't address the fear and surprise. And the fear and surprise are massive factors. Anyway that's my tuppence, ta.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Training for the fear aspect is a great idea if you can work it in somehow.

[@merkins87]

The other guy was probably on meth, hence the lack of response to Anthony's best shots. He was also awoken to the noise, so unlikely he was warmed up & coming in with a game plan. The fact that anybody else thinks they can do better than the guy that knocked out top flight fighters & survived Jon Jones is as asinine as it is fanciful.

[@robertnguyen9493]

I would say that the main difference between competition aka “sport fighting” and a street altercation aka “a real fight” is the change in mindset. In competition my mindset is to win and by win I mean get my hand raised and hear the roar of the crowd. In a street altercation, again my mindset is to win. And by win I mean survive and get home safely. Either way your mindset has to be right, otherwise you will fail. FIGHT TEAM!

[@johnnemo6509]

Mind set and mental approach are very important. Consider Kendo and Kenjiutsu. Kendo is a sport and a very good one, it builds many attributes both physical and mental. However, to practice Kenjiutsu the mechanics change subtly to allow for the difference between a live blade and a shinai and also it should be practiced with the fact you are practicing techniques designed to kill people in mind and must be prepared for the consequences of that. Yamashita Yasuhiro the noted Judoka said he always folded his clothes carefully when he changed for a competition in case he died on the mat and wouldn't want the embarrassment of finding his clothes in a mess. Worth meditating on. Respect to all.

[@marsultor8336]

From what I've seen, most folks who get pedantic about the difference between "martial sports" and "martial arts" are folks who practise the kind traditional martial arts that get bodied in fighting tournaments, and cope by claiming that thier art was made to kill and thus, can't be used in sporting tournaments.

[@seasickviking]

Beautifully said. I'm truly tired of hearing similar arguments and damn near agree wholeheartedly. There are so many fighters familiar with the phrase "Practice Makes Perfect" yet half those same fighters dont seem to realize that the sports version of martial arts is literally how one practices. The sports end of it literally allows one to turn training/sparring into a game as a way to keep people's interest, yet how blackbelts who are virtual masters of their individual practices cannot see whats right in front of them somehow escapes me.

[@baldieman64]

Competition (pressure testing) is vital for cultivating combat effectiveness. If you're not doing it in some way or form, then you're just LARPing in pyjamas - been there, done that.

[@johnnemo6509]

Is non-compliant partner training or pressure testing required to be competitive?

[@astrosherlock374]

@@johnnemo6509 Almost always. If they are compliant, then it beats the purpose of finding out how effective it is.

[@johnnemo6509]

@@astrosherlock374 In my experience being non-compliant is not the same thing as being competitive. You can be non-compliant by providing the level of resistance your training partner needs without necessary competing with them. Respect to all.

[@sincitytaoist3883]

A lot of people also confuse skill and tactics. It's like with firearms. It's like with marksmanship. You need to know how to both handle and use a weapon effectively before you learn how to use it in a combat scenario. A person in a shooting competition is demonstrating that they know how to shoot accurately which would make it easier for them to use that weapon in a combat scenario with or without further training. But combat training is applying that skill, marksmanship, to that scenario. It's just an application of that skill. But the initial skills developed by leaning how to handle and use that firearm effectively are necessary for the combat application of it. It's the same thing with martial arts for sport being applied to combat. And when we're talking about so-called "Street" applications that's what we're talking about, combat.

[@rataca100]

Never understood what "tactics" meant if you look at some wiki pages on korys and some other things. Firearms by far has the best fleshed out drfinition of tsctics due to the military doctrine defintions existing

[@Cavouku]

O no, the master of Ball-Kick-Fu is about to attack me with his illegal technique, except this is a street fight, so there's no ref if he kicks me in the--hey wait a sec, can't I block this the same way I would an inside leg kick? Well lookit that, it worked. Uh-oh, his buddy from the Secret School of Eye Pokes and Bites is about to--wait a sec, I just got wrist control, and I don't think he knows how to wrestle. He just keeps trying to bite my wrist, but it kinda made it easy to go for the RNC. Weird how that works.

[@asahearts1]

Anyone who watches videos of actual (criminal) street fights can see that martial arts gives you a huge advantage, even something like high school wrestling.

[@-whackd]

If you watch worldstarhiphop illegal fights between basketball Americans, and you draw conclusions about most assaults and murders, then you are returded. Hand in your brain because you're not using it.

[@robotix2106]

High school wrestling is one of the most useful. Every video where someone gets slammed the slammer walks away. The other guy probably needs a wheelchair

[@wynsonrao5177]

Watch the latest video by the channel Armchair Violence, where he makes many solid arguments in favour of wrestling(especially American collegiate/folkstyle wrestling) is the best art for self defense.

[@williamnield3276]

r/streetmartialarts has hours of evidence for this

[@asahearts1]

@@williamnield3276 Thanks, will check it out.

[@lewisb85]

As someone who trains BJJ and Muay Thai at my local MMA club and Savate at a boxing/savate gym I'm actually inclined to agree with you, it's like the idiots who say "so you need rules to fight" hmm really think of a silver gloved savateur who has been training for years and can throw powerful punches under stress with absolute precision, now imagine him in a street fight where he has no safety rules so punching the throat etc are all viable targets. It's hard to argue that its a "just a sport" during those circumstances. Although I think what a lot of the armchair warriors seem to forget is in countries like the UK the law is based on "reasonable force", so if you were to kill someone in a streetfight you would be looking at manslaughter charges, they also like to look at the "what ifs" when criticizing arts.

[@WhatIfBrigade]

I think dismissing BJJ or Judo as just sports is wrong. These are clearly martial arts. Even fencing which is often cited as a martial art that has become a sport you still don't want to fight a trained fencer wielding a sword! I have been guilty of calling Kendo a sport, but this isn't because it isn't also a martial art, but because it has lots of tournaments. I call Olympic wrestling, Judo and fencing "sports" in some contexts because they have lots of events where people compete. But this is mostly to differentiate between a match and a real fight.

[@MartinGreywolf]

This is really two questions: what is a martial arts, and what does a martial art need to be like to be effective in a fight. For the first one, I'd argue that to qualify as a martial art, a system needs to be martial and needs to be an art. The art bit implies in my mind that it is more about the technical skill rather than conditioning (and sure enough, no one claimed crossfit is a martial art), it's the being martial that is the sticking point. If what you do has enough techniques in it that are useful in a fight, it's a martial art - although it may not necessarily be a one very useful in a fight, depending on how it is practiced, *cough* tai chi *cough*. If we don't use this distinction, what about dancing? It gets you physical conditioning and the footwork in it is often the same as in fighting, especially with old folk dances. What about dances with weapons, e.g. Sabre dances of the cossacks, are they martial arts? And if they aren't, how different is that from the way Chinese Wushu federation is practicing set sequences of moves and nothing else? Being good in a fight, however, is a more complex topic. If your martial art is hyperfocused on a competition in a given style with set rules (e.g. boxing, kendo), you will see things introduced that will be optimized to work in that setting and potentially in that setting only - we had a discussion about boxers and punching not long ago, and it's not like this problem is new, Lichtenauer tradition mentions "play-fencers", Silver rails against false fencing and Musashi is also disdainful of pretend-fighting. It would seem that not having sparring is the opposite problem, but it really isn't, it's the same one. You can only fight the way you train, and if all your training is against people who will let you do whatever you want, you will be as badly out of your depth in a street fight as a boxer without gloves - actually, you will be worse off, because it is easier to punch less hard than it is to pull of a technique against someone who does not co-operate.

[@ClydeRowing]

Interestingly, there is a sequence in the 1980 way of the warrior documentary where goju ryus higoanna compares his system to traditional okinawan dancing, capioera has dance roots, nak muays do a ritual dance before the match begins. Maybe fighters have more dance in them than we think! My tuppence definition of what we'd understand as a martial art is a system that uses fighting technique as a vehicle for self improvement. It's certainly the cornerstone of the 'do' idea, and most if not all martial arts / combat sports promote themselves as making better people. , whatever their claimed or actual combative effectiveness.

[@harjutapa]

The term "martial art" is very broad. It refers to an art form which involves martial activities. Let's also, for the sake of argument, say that it also must give you some ability to win a "real" fight. To take from my own experience, kendo qualifies. Would I actually use the techniques taught in kendo in a real swordfight (assuming such a thing occurred)? No, because I've since learned more complete systems. But kendo IS an art form which involves beating your opponent up with a stick. There are rules and limitations, but it's certainly not a peaceful pastime. And while I wouldn't use kendo in a swordfight nowadays, I would've 15 years ago, when that was all I knew. And I almost certainly would've beaten anyone with no training with a sword using those techniques and training, because kendo IS a system for swordfighting that has some value.

[@אדרששון]

but trad martial arts dont alow spazing out i think we should push the limits carefuly

[@fredazcarate4818]

It is my humble opinion how one trains is how one fights. The object of sport(fighting) is build skill, confidence, and stamina. With modification one then can safely practice offence and defense. This is manly combat. They are simply opposite of the same coin. Let those who seek martial wisdom pay attention to your words. I believe all will profit from your experience. Well done lad ; your statement has brought joy to an elderly gentlemen.

[@twobeat310]

Obviously martial arts shouldn't have any martial application

[@johnnemo6509]

shouldn't they be non-martial arts then? unless you are referring to the separation of practice into Do , Jitsu, or sport? Respect to all.

[@Gcrab71989]

My kids are approaching their first degree belts in TKD and are itching to try other martial arts, blew their minds on the way to their first wrestling practice when I told them that it's martial arts as well.

[@moonsdonut5188]

Meanings involved the word Meek use to means to act with mercy and intelligence, to know how to diffuse the potential for violence and war, but today It mean meaning weak soft or timid.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Yes, so many words have changed meaning significantly over the years.

[@jonwander1186]

Partially agree. It is easy to overstate the difference between sportive training and the application but there is a difference. In the medieval german tradition of wrestling it was said that victory if play fighting went to the strongest and in war to the most cunning. All training is flawed because if you're not actually damaging someone the way you would in application and arts will shift to become specialized under rule sets- bjj's love of going to the ground for example, there was good reason the old medieval systems say this as a death sentence in most cases. That said, judo beat jiu jitsu back in the day because of its training methodology. Sparring and spar like drills can be and often are extremely useful for a 'classical' martial artist. In my personal training, the clearest illustration of this is with handguns. Range training is necessary and can be competitive, but it's very different from force on force simulations and even more different from the real thing.

[@Jenjak]

I notice people who actually have experience fighting don't make this kind of claims. The most experienced and skilled people I know don't even watch martial arts youtube channels !

[@-whackd]

Most experienced at street fights? If they are very experienced at street fights they are usually brain damaged and low IQ.

[@yuriysemenikhin302]

I hate watching Aikido channels 🤣 But I love watching things about other martial arts or the history of MAs in general 👍

[@johnnemo6509]

The most experience and skilled people I know are old and ask " what is this internet you speak of" I guess we are all victims of technology

[@joshmarten-brown7220]

Great vid! I find the people who say "its just a sport" are more often than not lacking in the physical fitness and conditioning required for good fighting. I also think hard2hurt here on KZbin said it best its far easier to teach a sport fighter some real world saftey consideration than it is to teach a "real self defence fighter" how to strike and wrestle

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

I agree with this but with one caveat. When trained CORRECTLY combat sports are the best martial arts. When trained simply to beat others under very specific and unrealistic rule set they can be a detriment. IE self defense Jiu-jitsu vs Sport BJJ.

[@rafaelcarrera9436]

What? You mean jumping and pulling guard mid-air is unrealistic?? Next your will be saying that dropping down onto your butt and scooting towards a standing opponent has little to no practical carryover.

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

@@rafaelcarrera9436 😂

[@moonsdonut5188]

Witch is best is something we will not get into HERE WINK WINK😃

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Exactly!

[@ajshiro3957]

I feel like the people who hate on sports martial arts are the same people who aren't really athletic and feel like they want to look better than athletes. "My art is better because it's based around tradition". There's still a lot of tradition going on around in sports martial arts that people just don't realize are traditions. Sure, sports have some limitations to what they can do. But it's for safety reasons. Arts that claim to be "too deadly" are more than likely people who have been told it's deadly by their sensei/sifu/other thing used for meaning a teacher. Those arts were never recorded to be deadly. has there been a match, recently, that resulted in someone dying? There has in boxing. But that's a "sports art" they say.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Those deaths aren't as proper as their super deadly art!

[@johnnymism]

Good points, just think all martial arts all go down rabbit holes and exclude elements of defense, ie mma/knife defense, karate/ grappling, self defense/ sparring and so on. Everyone ideally should learn to strike, grapple, weapon defense and multiples, how many do that? We just need to be honest and keep our ego's and politics away.

[@datuputi777]

Can only see some skills from sport fighting being useful in a brawl. Modernworld conflict/war is to advance that technical skills like knowing your coordinates or repair, salvage and sabotage of equipments are more useful but that's to far out from physical activity no one perceive them to be martial arts which is the irony the mind had truly become the weapon.

[@Vayiram-]

Que buen canal!!!! I came to shout: "nonsenses"!!!! but not only you were adressing (still in 2022) the ABSOLUTE NEED of live sparring for a true martial art. (and it's not like we don't have super safety gear this days to leave the excuses behind). But... also ended up learning about the evolution of the language... (I bet my grammar must be a pain, if you ever get to read me jajaja) I came for copper and I found brillante oro. (btw 6' format it's not bad at all)

[@tapioperala3010]

From personal experience "street fights" are things you do not want to be involved in. Weapons, either actual weapons like knives or random stuff like rocks, many vs. few, extremely dangerous environment (loads of places there one can crack skull really easy, for example), etc. etc. How do you train for something like this? Well, you can't just carbon copy it situations, that's clear, but I believe that anything that doesn't involve competing , and thus "proper" sparring, cannot be an effective martial art (in terms of self-defense). This makes it more "real", against opponent(s) who "actually want to harm you" (not really harm you, but they want to win and are likely to cause some bruises while trying). Competitions are great, everyone should compete if at all possible, and they force the [activity] to evolve and being refined. Anything else is just eye candy, mobility and fun times. You want to get better at deadlifting, you gotta do deadlifts. Same with fighting. You want to get better in fighting, you gotta fight.

[@Mr-Tibbster]

Historically... "martial art", a term from the Roman-Greek "Mars" (Art of Mars, god of war) was always applied to fighting systems that were seen in ancient sports and street combat both. In reality, the sportsmanship was the "play fighting" used by these ancient people as a form of practice for the real world.

[@davidemelia6296]

People like to say, 'Oh, if one of those tries anything with me, I'll just kick him in the nuts!', and stuff like that. Hey, guess what? They can do that too! Except, they can do it harder and more accurately than you can, because they've trained themselves to become quicker and more accurate than you with their bodily movements.

[@7woundsfist]

Some people have never been punched in the face. 😄 Ever hear of the Olympics my keyboard warrior friends? 🤣🤣🤣

[@TreyYork1]

This conversation encompasses my problem with this channel. I keep watching videos, and I guess, I keep hoping for catch wrestling techniques broken down and their context in the modern world. I guess the thesis argument just has to be answered first. I see videos here with names that ask if Catch Wrestling is dying out, but what is it? It's really just a rule-set like other grappling arts! Martial Arts evolve to fit the rule-sets they are trained under! Change the clothes, legal techniques, round duration and conditions for victory, you get a new art! The same goes for Striking Arts! We have enough footage online from the past to definitively prove this! Each "art" reflects the rule-sets with which they are tested under. Folks who do not practice against fully resistant partners are playing make believe! Fighting is fighting, and how many talented, hard working folks are pressure testing techniques is much more important than whatever venerated person's style-- not that we shouldn't take pains to remember the techniques that made certain outliers special, but context is essential

[@rynoerasmus7869]

‘Up to scratch!’ Didn’t know? Wow!! Interesting, thank you!

[@paolosmaldone8347]

So was for the archery and was and IS for firearms shooting:nobody train without"rules"!

[@jonhstonk7998]

Martial arts that have sports associated to them such as pugilism(which is associated with boxing) are not in any way inferior to traditional martial arts, they both can and should be effective and the only way to properly train a martial arts effectiveness is proper sparring as it leads to different specific circumstances and small detail adjustments that lead to an overall technical development, the main reason traditional kung fu, karate or specific forms of HEMA(such as the Portuguese staff fighting which was generally practiced with drills and only tested on proper brawls) didn’t had any proper sparring was that they didn’t had the equipment to safely spar with not because they looked down upon sparring in any way, nowadays we have access to much better safety gear for unarmed AND armed martial arts which is why it is safer to properly pressure test them now then it ever was in recorded history, for example contrary to popular belief PANCRATIOS had rules and an arbiter to prevent unnecessary injury and death yes…but there were still plenty of deaths that occurred in that Greek proto-MMA, there was even one occasion where I believe one fighter held the other in a joint lock and his opponent answered with a choke eventually tapping out of the joint lock…but the competitor who “won” actually died on the choke and kept the joint lock on which lead to the guy who died during the bout to be the winner of those specific Olympics as he made his opponent tap out and give up even tho he died choked in the process, crazy story Ik but it is attested in historical record and it goes to show how dangerous Unarmed sports and actual full contact competition could be back then.

[@chrisgibson5267]

There's a video showing a London 'gangster ' demonstrating a combination. The first shots are clearly boxing, and it's followed by a head butt. He then grasps his opponents head and "bites" his ear off. It's an object lesson in reality.

[@Michael-yr5oq]

Are javelin throwing, Olympic shooting, Olympic archery etc... martial arts? What about military drumming, flag waving, marching etc...? If I asked is judo or kung fu a martial art pretty much everyone would agree. If I asked about the Olympic sports and military drills above there would be less agreement and it would take some thinking. Some martial arts are more representative of what we collectively imagine as martial arts than others are i.e. there are martial arts that are more or less martial arty than others.

[@joejoelesh1197]

Wanna know what I think?! Ya really wanna know? I think leaving a comment helps you out with the algorithm. That's what I think. Well, and that you deserve it.

[@johnnemo6509]

Agree and disagree, but agree that every moment spent commenting on KZbin would be better spent training. The claim that certain arts are too deadly is exaggerated. However certain ways of training are. Difference to art and sport or do and Jitsu is in the approach and mind set. Take Judo for instance it can be practiced as a sport, or as an art, even as sport approached as an art. The techniques may be similar but the approach different. The judo of Mifune Kyuzo is very different to my eyes to that performed by competitors in the olympics. Competitive sparring has been been a marital training as it is an effective training method to develop skills but it should be only a part of martial arts. If you train wholly for sports that's fine. but from a martial arts perspective over emphasis on on the sporting aspect is detrimental for development. for example in tai chi push hands is a useful training tool to develop skill but is (IMHO) a distortion of the art to train exclusively for push hands competitions...you may be good at push hands but your tai chi is unlikely to be very good. End of the day if you like to enter sporting competitions and focus your training on that fine go for it. If you practice as an art or do, great go for it. If you practice for self defense equally good. People spend far too much time debating this and which is "better" which is more "effective" People should just pick a style they like and work at it as hard as they can and not care what other people are doing. That's 10mins training time wasted. I resolve to spend a lot less time reading comments and more time training. Respect to all

[@CP-uw4ts]

I do feel starting with katas and forms when young will prime someone’s body for doing sport martial arts easier IMO, and then strip the useless shite and keep the useful stuff like how TKD will make you a more conditioned kicker in Muay Thai for example.

[@אדרששון]

i should start training katas i make up so its fun for me to train at home tnx for the idea

[@CP-uw4ts]

@@אדרששון no problem

[@denismorgan9742]

Martial as in Martial arts means a art used in war. Although BJJ is not a Martial art because it as never been used in war it could be, Boxing however has by the British Navy to fight the French Navy that used Savate, the obvious advantage Boxing had over the French Savate is balance on a shifting deck where as Savate had the same Boxing but has kicks that similated fencing, this is fine on a steady surface but not Navy.

[@whim6287]

FIGHT TEAM

[@StevieB8363]

Mate, I love your videos, but you seem to be using some kind of auto-mike that cuts off the beginning of your words. It's really annoying.

[@timandjacquinicklin9596]

Hello. Whilst I agree that humans have always used sport to teach their young how to cope with many aspects of life . However the real difference here, there was always an understanding that the rules of sport would not have been applied on the battlefield . Whilst into today's world there are sports that exist only within the rules of the game for safety reasons. It would be inconceivable to think one would actually be legally allowed to strangle someone to death in a self- defence scenario . I believe the police would have a field day, whilst in the days you are talking of there wasn't any such thing as a police force. It's purely a mindset approach and for the most part luckily we don't think in terms of killing people for sport today. Nosce te ipsum Tim

[@Taekwon-Brando]

Mr.English, I would love to hear your opinion on grappling dummies and whether or not they are an effective means of training

[@zachleprieur2871]

Funny how people still think like this, the mass delusions of those supposed street fighters. Meanwhile most the knockouts online are someone who knows nothing getting rocked by someone who does. Bjj is a good example of let's play "you try to kill me and I try to kill you" that people can experience safely. Most those people spouting street fight stuff usually haven't tho and need a roll to show them

[@nathanbateman4255]

Having dealt with plenty of drunks and imbeciles in security I can assure you that dealing with athletes who have high degrees of fitness and training in the ring or on the mat is much, much harder. Sports, even things like rugby and American football, are fantastic preparation for hard contact with others in high stress situations

[@Sfourtytwo]

Yeah people landing on their backs on a sidewalk quickly notice that nothing hurts more than being hit with a fucking planet.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Don't they just. And somehow their magical ninja death poke didn't stop it!

[@bobfg3130]

Yes, sports are not martial arts. Yes, there are rules. I expect some fair play and safety in a sport. That does limit its effectiveness. That doesn't mean it's useless. You can often develop a blind eye from this. One of the big issues is that the techniques that could get you wounded more seriously are banned and in most cases are unknown to sportsmen. Now drilling and full contact training are necessary but that's another issue.

[@based_prophet]

Martial arts is a 1950 creationism term ... talk bout skipping history

[@god6815]

I think tennis is a martial art. It essentially teaches you 43 different ways to slap a fool which is just an opening move like a jab… not to mention quite demoralising

[@raginmundsawcheck9767]

The Sport is there to back up the Martial Art not the other way around. Can some of the moves in a Sport be used to hurt, to kill... of course that's the point, but that's also the difference.

[@bloodhyena]

Can't argue with logic ,though I'm sure some will try😂 personally the older I get the less I want to fight and more I just want to enjoy training .

[@docaff]

My fighting experience pretty much falls in the categories of more than most people and more than I would have liked. I've trained for about 10 years split between 2 martial arts. I am admittedly a hobbyist. I do it for the exercise and camaraderie. With that said, my opinion is the best real world fighters who train are those who spar full contact (even if partial power). And that's essentially what sport martial arts do. Because if you're not used to at least taking the occasional controlled hit, then you will not respond well when you get hit full force.

[@johnnemo6509]

curious how do you train full contact with partial power? isn't that semi-contact?

[@docaff]

@@johnnemo6509 might just be semantics based on how my instructors referred to it. But contact referred to whether you hit, did a partial touch, or stop short (air punch). Power comes down to how hard you hit. For example, sparring might be full contact (blows fully landing) and 10-20% power. A match would be full contact, full power. Drilling could involve partial or no contact with really light power (eg, practicing throat punches) or more power (slaps {considered partial contact in a punching style} just hard enough to sting but not do damage).

[@johnnemo6509]

@@docaff Sorry that doesn't really make sense. no contact means no contact. anything you make contact but pull the power is semi-contact be it touch or hard enough to hurt , and anything where you don't pull the power is full contact. I've trained under all 3 conditions no contact messes up your distancing. semi-contact trains your body to hit soft. full contact trains your body to understand how to give and take powerful strikes. Yes semi-contact can be used to work on distancing angling and timing. But I like lee morrison's recommendation that 80% of your training be done full contact. That doesn't necessarily mean all sparring is full contact but it does mean a lot of drill with pads and bag work is done full contact or full power. There are too many dojo's out there where students only train hitting air or very light contact ( still with protective gear). These schools are not preparing their students for the realities of violent conflict. Sorry bit of a rant there. Respect to all.

[@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg]

If someone does olympic judo vs regular judo. I'd be more afraid to fight the Olympic hopeful.

[@The_Prenna]

I spend time on r/martialarts (something something no greater hive of scum and villainy) and there's often arguments about what is an isn't a martial art. The arguments go in both directions. Some say the sportified arts are just sports and other say the arts that don't train against resistance aren't real arts. I think using a dictionary definition is rarely useful.

[@Crypt4l]

A clear and agreeable definition of Martial Art could render many discussions in this area mute. I would have liked you to establish one.

[@Tanjutsu4420]

no that's not the argument... jujitsu is a part of daito ryu the (martail art) aiki and ju are 2 parts of one art..... the problem is its a word that means something in Japanese its not the name of a fighting art.

[@davidemelia6296]

OTT: 'Cunning' is another word which is dire need of rehabilitation 🙂

[@gojuglen]

I agree, martial art combat sports are just as much martial arts as any other martial art. Live sparring/rolling/wrestling will give you an enormous advantage over those who don't. My only negative on combat sports is when it becomes too exclusive, the training/art becomes too one dimensional to fit the rules. Nothing wrong with that per say, but there are other reasons to train, for example budo or character development. Which by the way I think combat Sport style arts like bjj, wrestling and mma are perfect for developing your budo/character...if its focused on and not just about beating the other guy for the medal. Combat sports and alive sparring won't make you a better person. They do however reveal things about you character. It's then up to you to work on that. But those moments of self improvement may be lost if all that matters is winning the next fight or medal. Just my thoughts subject to change!

[@johnnemo6509]

As the song says, "it's not what you do, it's the way that you do it" I know many people practicing "martial arts" who are arrogant self centered and egotistical. I also know many people who practice "combat sports" who have developed very mature generous and well balanced personalities through their training. The reverse is also true. Again it's what you are looking for, do you enjoy competing and want to engage in competition with others. are you more interested in personal development and competing against yourself, or are you more interested in personal protection rather than personal development or competition? Any practice can potentially help you reach your goal. What you say about winning medals not making you a better person is I think at the heart of the Judo paradox. Kano Jigoro would probably be very disappointed at how the state of judo has deviated from his vision, how many competitors are willing do transgress what was considered good judo etiquette in order to win . It's interesting to read the writings of Trevor Leggett from a time when perfection of the self and the art was more important than winning competitions. Respect to all.

[@actually_a_circle]

Eastern martial arts used to have full contact sparing. It stopped in the during the late colonial era because social sentiments changed against having black eyes all the time.

[@amazed2341]

Judo not being a “martial art” is hilarious considering they invented the belt system etc

[@Basta11]

I think many of these arts were born out of the dueling traditions of the particular area where they originate. Not too long ago men would have to settle differences and defend their honor in duels. Since refusing a duel meant dishonor and being downgraded in society. Those who are likely to be challenged (the political class and warrior caste) had to learn how to fight. The first dueling rules would be informal, everybody knows them and abides by them but they are not yet codified. Some duels involve weapons, others do not. Every region in the world would have different rules sets. Some of these dueling arts became codified into sport like boxing and wrestling in England. Muay Thai in Thailand. Fencing in Europe. Kendo in Japan. Wing Chun in Southern China. Karate in Okinawa. Some didn’t become sport like gun duels in the US. Thank Hamilton for that. The best most successful fighters would likely have a following of students wanting to learn how to fight. In the Philippines, the dueling culture came from the Spanish tradition, but native Filipinos were discouraged from having swords so locals dueled with sticks. The arts predated the Spanish which probably came from India, China, and/or Okinawa but were heavily influenced by them in 300 year rule. Some Filipinos undoubtedly also learned European fencing (Esgrima in Spanish) which became Eskrima. Some of the best duelers became the first masters of the art and they passed down what they know. Today the dueling tradition is gone but the system of fighting they had remains. The sport of Eskrima adopted safety gear of Kendo but it’s not quite the same as the duels of old. So it’s kind of a mix bag where the old masters honed their art with actual dangerous dueling, but thats not really something modern society can afford modern practitioners.

[@Basta11]

The further back you go, with less technology, the more man power was a deciding factor in war. Martial skill was more than just for recreation. It was an important part of your identity in society and as a man. Every nobleman in Europe was expected to learn how to fight. Same in Feudal Japan. Duels in Congress and Parliament happened up until the 1900s. The German High Command in WW2 regarded dueling scars from fencing as a badge of honor. Many Native Americans join the military to gain warrior standing in their tribe.

Since you ask, I think "semantics" isn't important, except when it is needed to distinguish things. And it seems to me that distinguishing an activity where the goal is clearly to learn to incapacitate someone else and an activity where the goal is to win over an opponent through a set of rules is worth discussing, even if those two activities are part of a bigger ensemble named "martial arts" or any other term. Semantics is important if one wants to make a classification. Indeed words meanings change with time and in your video, you are right on almost all accounts, but semantics isn't something petty or non-important. It helps people having the same meaning for the same word before engaging in a conversation and it allows to avoid the confusion that results, precisely, when people think they speak about the same thing but really doesn't, or the opposite. I am not into fixing definitions in time forever of course. This wouldn't help. But allowing ourselves to define what we mean with the words we are willing to use in a discussion is important, even if the meaning is only understandable between those who participate in the discussion at that moment.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Absolutely. I'm a firm believer in defining our terminology before any form of discussion or debate.

[@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145]

Martial Sport might be a better descriptive term for competitive fighting arts...but would anyone use it? Martial Art as a term was originally used only for European arts; should we not call Asian arts martial arts? I think that would be a waste of effort these days. To put it simply I agree with you.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

There's very little point in fighting the way Western society has decided to use the words!

[@bobbysmitty1628]

I have my reservations about using ground fighting or bjj as a go to method in a street altercation for self-defense, not a duel. However, I agree wholeheartedly with its effectiveness to harm an opponent. Personally, I have competed in boxing and wrestling. BJJ is the only martial art where I felt I could actually die during an exchange.

[@ektran4205]

the pre itf and wtf taekwondo was taught by the forefathers of tkd to the students to "kick through the target".

[@specialforces237]

Fully agree, and martial arts systems are from all over the world, not just Asia and includes western boxing 🥊

[@ultramarine0123]

Yeah pretty much all sport derives from some sort martial preparation

[@78mks]

Digging holes in the ground to make trenches is a martial art? is it a combat sport? .I think that as long there is a set of rules then there is a sport.

[@wayoflifetaichi3864]

Very good video thanks for sharing 🙏🏿

[@formlessone8246]

I do have thoughts on this, and they relate to a bunch of other things I've seen people say over the years. "There's no rules in a street fight" (there are); "Which martial art is the best?" (it depends); "Martial arts don't work" (we'll get to that). And this idea that martial arts for sport are "not martial art" is, like a lot of these other ideas, based on an understandable but flawed idea about martial arts. What I've been starting to realize is that martial arts are indeed context based, and this effects how we train in them, and which martial art we choose in the first place. Now, I'm not talking about context in the way Matt Easton usually does, although that is relevant. Armed VS Unarmed martial arts, Gi vs No Gi, gloved vs bare knuckle, all of that does matter to why a martial art does things the way they do and why you might choose that art. But I'm thinking more about the intent of the art. Your earlier video defined martial arts by how they limit you, but I think its also valid to define martial arts by what kind of violent encounter its preparing you to fight in instead. When looking at the social context of fights, it seems to me that there are just six (assuming we ignore animal encounters and sparring). First there is sport. This is the one that most obviously is constrained by rules, which is where people get confused about all of the rest. They think there are no rules in any other kind of fight, but that just isn't true. We'll talk about that. Self defense is the other most talked about context, and where you hear the most comments about there being no rules, but in fact what differentiates it is actually the lack of referees, not rules. The rules are nothing less than the laws governing self defense. They serve a different purpose, that's all. As Ramsey Dewey has pointed out in multiple videos, the two contexts are polar opposites in one crucial way: in the ring you have to be the aggressor, but in self defense by definition you are the defender, and usually expected to retreat at the soonest convenience. Self defense isn't about winning the fight, its about surviving the fight without being declared a criminal in the process. Because context number three is the natural corollary to self defense: when you are the criminal attacking someone in the street. When you are the mugger, the assailant, the would be murderer. There aren't many martial arts that are specific to this context like there are for sports and self defense systems, or at least they don't usually have names. Though Rough and Tumble comes pretty close to a good example in the way it was practiced. The point of this is that self defense isn't necessarily different in technique to sport, but it can be quite different in terms of tactics and mindset. You have to be able to justify everything you do after the fact. Because the criminal context is the only one where the rules are ignored entirely, even though they still exist. But also, there is that lack of referees I mentioned earlier. No one can be expected to protect your life except yourself in these situations. You also have to pay attention to things like normal clothes effecting your technique; in a recent video Sensei Seth said that you can do high kicks in a street fight, but you do have to be wearing the right shoes and pants with the right level of flexibility. So there are differences, but they don't turn you into a superman just because its a self defense situation. If anything its the opposite, because of much more stressful it is to be fighting for your life. The fourth situation is also a corollary to the second and third: policing. This is similar in many ways to self defense, but encompasses a lot of duties that normal citizens are not expected to do under normal circumstances (and indeed, are often prohibited from doing). Subduing someone in order to arrest them is not really the same as subduing them in the ring. Police also follow their own set of laws and rules, though they are unfortunately not consistent from place to place. But as an example, many departments are prohibited from using strangleholds due to the many people who have died in a stranglehold. Given the Rear Naked Choke is the most common submission hold used in Juijitsu, you can imagine how such a rule changes your tactics The fifth situation is an obsolete one, but relevant to HEMA and many other traditional arts. Dueling. Obviously illegal today, but the techniques of many armed martial arts are informed by the rules and expectations of dueling. A lot of people have criticized knife based systems because they so often expect a stand up fight, and in all honesty... that's fair. A lot of them are historically based on dueling, not self defense, and it highlights the importance of knowing what an art is for before practicing it. Finally we come to martial arts stemming from warfare, and it does make sense to separate them from a lot of the previous ones. Obviously, no one goes to war unarmed, which is the first distinction from most. Its also the closest one comes to a no rules fight even if you somehow find yourself without a weapon. However, even here we find rules and laws, serving yet another purpose. But we can keep a long story short here. There is nothing inherently superior about martial arts for war over martial arts for sport or for self defense or for policing and dueling. They are just different. Different mindsets, different training modalities, different goals. All six contexts are like that, and that's okay. Getting good at one will definitely give you an arsenal that can be applicable to the others; if you want to kick someone in the groin then practicing kicks to every other part of the body will make you better at that. However, a weapon you never deploy might as well not be in your arsenal, and that's where the importance of rules can come into play. You fight the way you actually practice.

[@Vlad_Tepes_III]

Would bodyguard or bouncer duty fall under policing, under this classification?

[@ilahazs]

Fancy style to fight.

[@LuxisAlukard]

Oz the Brutal :)

[@grimmriffer]

On the subject that wrestling, boxing, etc are not always considered martial arts. When I used to train I deliberately referred to my interests as "fighting arts". I felt they genuinely were distinct from (what people think of as) martial arts entirely *because* they were practical fighting systems, as opposed to wearing pyjamas and making shapes.

[@bobfg3130]

They're not wearing pyjamas. Nice try. They're practical fighting systems if properly trained.

[@johnnemo6509]

@@bobfg3130 But you got to admit there are a lot of PJ's out there. They was a military rule of thumb that said the army with the best dressed generals loses the battle. Seems that the same rules hold for martial arts😃

[@bobfg3130]

@@johnnemo6509 Not really. Nice try. There were plenty of armies with better dressed generals that won the battles and war.

[@johnnemo6509]

@@bobfg3130 It's a metaphorical statement coined by a Russian officer to highlight that often large well equipped armies with ineffective leadership fail against smaller less well equipped armies with effective leadership when on paper they should win easily , examples include: the Russians against the Japanese at the navel battle of Tsushima, the Americans in Vietnam, and the Russians again in Afghanistan. I have found that this holds true in Martial arts. Having a number of decades of experience in Traditional Chinese martial arts those "Masters" jumping around in the flashiest silkiest PJs generally have the least actual knowledge and ability. Put it another way it's probably a bad sign if you walk into a Gym, dojo, Dojang, or Kwoon and it doesn't smell of sweat. Respect to all.

[@bobfg3130]

@@johnnemo6509 It doesn't matter. You don't have any experience with Traditional Chinese martial arts. There are very few that WANT to teach you how to fight using their style. 😆 So those "flashiest silkiest PJ" and that jumping around doesn't show incompetence like you claim. Dojo is Japanese, Dojang is Korean. That means different martial arts. Don't put it any other way, it makes you look worse. Someone with no experience in martial arts can give better advice. A gym not smelling like sweat means it has been well cleaned up and the participants wash their clothes. Nice try.

[@yuriysemenikhin302]

I'm going to use Judo and Aikido to both agree and disagree with you: Sport of Judo is missing good 80% of the techniques from the Martial Art of Judo. Tomiki Aikido only holds 5 original forms from Aikido, and even in those, many variations are NOT allowed. This is done, because those techniques are considered to be TOO dangerous to be performed in the Sport, during a competition. Fact. Should a practitioner of Both sports end up in a fist fight, they will have the skills and necessary physical attributes to bring their opponent down. Because of the way these Sports are designed, Tomiki practitioner will have a higher chance of surviving a knife attack, even though it will be ugly 🤷‍♂ As evidence shows, many people, doing combat sports, end up being dead when the situation concerns Self Defence and not "two idiots having a testicle measurement competition". This is often caused by the "bad" habits received during sports training mixed with belief that it is 100% applicable. The solution would be to appreciate the difference in depth between a Combat Sport and a Martial Art but also the need for a Combat Sport in developing Martial Art Attributes.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Do you have any evidence to back up your many claims?

[@yuriysemenikhin302]

@@EnglishMartialArts The removal of techniques from Judo and Tomiki is part of their history, not sure what more I can do there 🤷‍♂ There has been plenty of stories of professional athletes getting seriously hurt or killed in self defence situations. As I speak russian, I tend to hear and see more of those coming from Eastern Europe. Usual one: "Athlete got in the fight with an idiot, the idiot had a hidden knife, athlete got stabbed." Athlete admits to not having thought about a weapon. Athlete admits to being stabbed while wrestling for position. Athlete can't admit anything, because he bled to death 😞 Recently there was one where in South America a professional Athlete got beat down with crowbars, after being aggressive with a couple of guys in a shop. A BJJ fighter shot in Brazil. An opinion expressed one of Judo channels in Russia: "Japanese are training the techniques we don't, as they are not part of competitive Judo" A set up for a heap throw in Sport Judo has no strikes, a heap throw in Old Judo and in Aikido comes loaded with a punch to the face (as a distraction) A guy called Chadi recently had a video on his channel, where he clearly shows the division between Sport and Old Style Judokas during training. You don't need to trust me, but it is the way it is. But if you mean something more specific, feel free to ask.

[@joshuadaniels4034]

Is he being sarcastic when he asks how I’m doing or is just his English accent?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Nope, not sarcastic at all. I often am, but not then.

[@corrugatedcavalier5266]

Semantic/pedantic arguments are tiresome, and grow like weeds on the internet. The tradition vs. practicality vs. sport argument can be done well if there is nuance and accepting that there are strengths and weaknesses of each approach, but that is often just not the case. FIGHT TEAM!

[@24hrninja]

Street fighter 2 🎉🎉🎉

[@davidemelia6296]

I was training in karate when I was a youngun, like 9, 10, 11. My sensei was an English guy who moonlighted as a bouncer. And I, ignorant child that I was, said to him, 'Because you're good at karate, you must be able to beat up anyone who hasn't done a martial art, right?' I still remember his response: 'No! You can't underestimate anyone. And you don't know what other people know, either.'

[@taxusbaccata3001]

love the short hashtag :D

[@titomlm]

"Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one" is how I will respond the initial claim that sport combat is useless in a real situation. Before the notion of sports was commonplace, these bouts of skill were held on the battlefield with two of the best among competing armies to settle war without mass murder if it can be helped. That is especially true when Armies fought each other more frequently, thus the raw hatred and vitriol was not a major motivating factor to the common warrior defending their respective homeland. Even the conduct in battle has been gradually more and more regulated as time progressed, just as it has been in sports ironically enough. Competition serves as the outlet valve to our innate aggression whether it is on the field of battle with an army, or the ring with your corner, or in the street defending yourself against a random attacker. The end result remains, put the other side down, by any means necessary. Life does not have an umpire or referee to pull you off, you decide when it ends. You learn to live with your choices, the good, bad, and ugly ones alike. Stay frosty, keep training, & see you on the mat. Go FIGHT TEAM!!!! ;0)

[@Sceadusawol]

I think the argument comes from people who don't understand the distinction between "combative systems" and martial arts.

[@Cars_of_yesteryear]

Spot on Mate!

[@Kaloian_Ivanov]

Good video!

[@andrewalexander1086]

Your wrong sir we once went to a karate school to give a demonstration of our Muay Thai KO gym. We did some sparring to show the difference the karate guys didn’t know what hit them. They didn’t hit full on in the face or kick full on to the legs.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

And that makes me wrong how? Your art is more sport based than theirs...

[@andrewalexander1086]

@@EnglishMartialArts no we hit harder so used to being hit hard, they pulled their punches by scoring points that’s the difference. Like I said before in other comments it’s down to the individual, I always say I’m not a fighter but I can take care of myself make of that what you will.

[@davidtaylor142]

This literally just means you spar with more intensity than them

[@relativisticvel]

This is why USPSA, Three-Gun, and Two-Gun are martial arts.

[@אדרששון]

martial arts isnt boring enogfh i mean we should go to spesifics, and build technics out of the densety of those spesifics edit: this will be the real modarn martial arts

[@junjun_8070]

Made sure I watched the whole video before I wrote my thoughts. I'd like to first mention that I agree with the main message, but I want to point out a couple things. For starters, the eastern weapons shown early on in the video are traditional Okinawan weapons, which were never farming tools. I'm not sure if maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I want to emphasize that the Okinawans didn't look at farming tools and thought "this would make a great weapon". Jesse Enkamp has a great video about this subject (The Biggest MYTH In Karate), I highly recommend everyone check it out. As for the "sporty martial arts aren't real martial arts" argument, it's just bollocks. However, I do think that over-sportifying an art does great harm to the art's integrity. Taekwondo is a great example of this. Not very long ago, the art was electric - with people actually aiming to kick and punch with power. I have Korean friends who trained during the "power era", and I put their skills right up there with modern kickboxers. However, everyone now knows taekwondo as "olympic foot-fencing", and in many ways it's true. The point scoring system encourages people to ditch the power/effectiveness, and instead rely on touches to score points. It's a real shame what the sport aspect has done to taekwondo, because the real curriculum of taekwondo is actually pretty darn good (at least in my opinion). Similar things are happening to other arts, like judo (reduced ne-waza, no leg grabs, etc) and it's mostly all done for the sake of the spectators.

[@CowcaticalChris]

Jesse Enkamp has a video fawning all over sexual harasser, rapist and all around general fraud Steven Seagal, he might very much be right about the weapons in the way a broken clock can also be right twice a day but I'd never cite him as a reliable source.

[@andrewk.5575]

I am not sure I agree with the statement that sport is and has always been a part of martial training because our contemporary understanding and fixation on sport is really a Victorian phenomena that came about when the people began worrying that the Industrial Revolution had made men less manly. Competition and the application of the art has always been an aspect of training of course, but I would be a bit wary of describing Medieval practices (much less East Asian ones) as sport when those cultures did not share our modern conception of what sport is. Jousts and longbow shooting on the village green were ways of practicing for war, not ends in and of themselves that coincidentally helped prepare you for fighting.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Tournament melees with blunt weapons, wrestling competitions on the green, these both predate the victorians by some centuries. Our combat sports may have been different from theirs, but they had them for sure.

[@Zz7722zZ]

I don’t disagree. That’s about it. Thanks

[@calebr908]

A lot of hand techniques in chinese martial arts come from the way you would use farm tools. Baji quan in rural china has a bit of this. Do you still use your patreon?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Yes, I'm just crap at posting there. Not on purpose though, just ADHD...

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

Not much to add. Very well said, sir. So, as you indicated that this is a Part One, FIGHT ...

[@EnglishMartialArts]

No no no, it was part one and part two, part seven is next, part four after that. And then the series will be cancelled.

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

@@EnglishMartialArts ... er ... uh ... TEAM!

[@rafaelbabar3494]

You're so right and it needs to be said. When I started to look into grappling (to learn how to catch kicks) I was so disappointed that my journey involved coming across charlatans near where I live (who are supposedly 7th and 8th degree black belts but one of whom has never sparred!) and on one occasion a fellow teacher! What has happened to standards and integrity? I could not in all consciousness teach something that I was not confident would work if drilled and pressure tested enough. Snake oil salesmen are literally conning middle class families out of a small fortune each week on the gamble that the party tricks they are selling would keep their students safe in the unlikely event of an encounter on the "street". I have to travel some distance a few times a week to find excellent instruction in Catch but am yet to find someone from what I spent years learning (Chinese Boxing) who can teach what is nowadays a fundamental, fairly unique aspect of Sanda or Sanshou which is catching kicks. This is what I really want to drill to so that I can continue my journey to becoming more rounded. My own style teaches this but like the throws and grapple releases we learn they are not drilled enough or pressure tested in our sparring which basically uses kick boxing rules. I digress but strongly agree that there are too many people out there who have little conscience and hide behind the "my art is too deadly nonsense". It's so bad for someone who may not know what they are looking for when starting out that I can only advise finding somewhere near that you can afford with people who you like. When the time is right, you'll find the right place but don't fall for one person bands (no matter how many members they have or what grade they claim even if they are part of a world wide organisation - these are riddled with petty politics) who tell you that "it's not all about fighting".

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Might be worth talking to the folks at Kaobon, their Muay Thai seems to do a lot of kick catching.

[@rafaelbabar3494]

@@EnglishMartialArts Where are they?😊

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Good points! :)

[@datuputi777]

Can only see some skills from sport fighting being useful in a brawl. Modernworld conflict/war is to advance that technical skills like knowing your coordinates or repair, salvage and sabotage of equipments are more useful but that's to far out from physical activity no one perceive them to be martial arts which is the irony the mind had truly become the weapon.

[@astrosherlock374]

War was never about Martial Skill and brawls. War was always about the battle of logistics and equipment. Wars weren't won on the battlefield, they were won by the supply lines and preparations and movement. And in that scenario, war still hasn't changed one bit. Battles were always fought for either cutting supplies off, or attacking a strategically vulnerable position that did cut supplies off to force people onto the battlefield on their own terms.

[@datuputi777]

@@astrosherlock374 Not always the case sometimes meeting people head on when they have advantage and defeating them soundly tends to dissuade them from any belief of victory.

[@astrosherlock374]

@@datuputi777 that happening was very VERY rare. Usually they always tried to steer the point of battle space into THEIR favor, meaning they would choose the field they would fight on. That still happens, but on a MUCH smaller scale, between platoons and squads and companies.

[@datuputi777]

@@astrosherlock374 Happened enough that it's a literal strategy it's winning 6 battles in one since pride/ morale is more fragile than flesh.

[@ynghuch]

Cleared it up in the first 20 seconds 👍

[@EnglishMartialArts]

By the beep?

[@ynghuch]

@@EnglishMartialArts yep.

[@roblovett]

I've just watched this.... you are wrong.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Evening Rob, which bit?

[@roblovett]

@@EnglishMartialArts to be fair, I was just replying to your title.... You are kind of right but I'll argue the opposite because it is a valid point. To take boxing - we can definitely agree on it being a martial sport. It's designed to keep both participants safe...well not maimed or dead. How much has the rule set changed over the past 100 years? Would a boxing match of the 21st C be the same as one in 1722? Did boxing exist in 1422? You go back to a point and wrestling and striking merge to an unarmed art. Liberi recognises that there are two types of fighting, that for sport and the other for matters of life and death, where he is looking to maim and kill. So I think we can see that there are those arts that are more designed for combat in earnest, and alongside - ways of practising that art in competition where the other you are competing with is kept relatively safe...its at this point we see divergence as rules are tacked on, techniques restricted, people play to the rules to gain advantage and do it more often. Liberi himself says that he would prefer to fence in armour 5 times rather than once with a sharpened sword (unclear as to whether he will be armoured). So I think that we can clearly define martial sport and martial art as two separate things - but here's the rub.....even the practice of a martial art requires safety for the students which in turn waters that practice down, going through forms for the sake of goingvthrough forms and over time losing understanding of what the different elements within the form actually mean, plus in the 21st C there are very few circumstances where a martial art can actually be employed....but now I'm rambling a bit.

[@Lovellyoungwolf]

Yeah, I've been doing martial arts my entire life and been boxing for 20 years. I still spar with high level pros, I'm talking about top rank and showbox guys. I argue with my martial arts friends all that time that ever since I started boxing all those years ago I've became a very good martial artist by sport fighting people. You have to get in there with people who can actually fight, Who do it for real and who get paid to do it. It's literally war for some of these guys. I literally was around a guy a month ago who sparred 12 rounds, hard. He got out of the ring and said "not bad for a guy that got shot last night". The man was shot twice last night but still showed up for his session because he had fight that weekend. Are you tell me that you don't need to train to beat people like that!? Yeah right 🙄 Sport fighting can turn you into something else. Start training guys, further your martial art.

[@Devi_Shammuramat]

Competition fighting evolved via males competing over mating rights - which is why women don't generally do that well when competing against men [despite combat, military, war etc. all coming under the Feminine]. That said, there's still a great deal which can be gleaned via competition fighting.