You should write self-indulgent trash

[@stolenzephyr]

I've been working on a project that started as a commercial romantasy project. Something that was meant to be "trashy." It has now turned into a project to help me process trauma and creating the love story I don't know if I'll ever have in real life. It's become a deeply personal project and has drastically departed from the original premise. But to an outsider it might still look like a cliche romantasy project. So it's a wierd one.

[@johannageisel5390]

I wish you much success with it. It's always awesome if a project grows beyond its limitations.

[@stolenzephyr]

@johannageisel5390 Thanks so much! I appreciate your kind words.

[@alpha1solace]

This! I found my writers voice and broke writers block by sticking "i write for myself" in the header and just enjoying myself (:

[@Momo_Minomo]

I think it's telling that the series that made fantasy into a genre worth respecting was Tolkien's Middle Earth books. Before him fantasy was dismissed as nonsense for children and not something an adult would find any worth in. The entire series only existed because Tolkein was a language and mythology nerd who wanted to share the conlangs he'd created. He'd started with Quenya then constructed an entire elvish history so he could play at creating dialects that had evolved from that first language. He created an entire mythology and history for this new universe and additional languages to fill out the other races that lived there. He published the Hobbit as a children's book and then wanted to play in this universe more so badly that he changed the story and had it reprinted afterwards to give him room to write the Lord of the Rings, where he refused to be limited to writing solely for children any more. All that enthusiasm and nerdy excitement to write a book series that came to define the entire genre in a classic that has endured nearly a century, now. It's entirely worth it to just write something because you love it. There are bound to be people out there somewhere with similar tastes and interests that will love it too.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

Tolkien is such an inspiration. I'm about due for a reread of his letters. I love the nerdiness of it all.

[@dukeofdenver]

Whenever i start to write something self-indulgent just for fun it doesn't stay that way for long. After a few chapters in my brain is like "THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER, EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS" and i lock in, and get right back to "boss writer" mode. My stories tend to slip back and forth between ridiculous whimsy and gritty drama as a result

[@QueenErrr]

Are you in my head? This is exactly me 😭

[@nobellesshorts]

that, mate, is, in my opinion, the best way to write ANYTHING

[@cedarmccloud]

Your experience reminds me of a bit in the book "Art and Fear" where they talk about this experiment: a ceramics class is split into two. Half the class is tasked to make one single perfect pot over the semester. The other half is told to make as many pots as possible regardless of quality. At the end of the semester, they found that the highest quality pots came from the half of the class that was making dozens of shitty ones, not the ones who worked on a single pot for months! All that to say, I absolutely agree, sometimes the best way to improve as a writer is just to write--and specifically to finish things and move on!! I definitely write for myself and it's not commercial but it's DEFINITELY indulgent 😂 It's not for everyone but the readers I do have really like it, it seems. Just seeing the title of this video made me happy and validated because I'm in the middle of book 3 in a series and wondering what the heck I'm doing 😅😂 I've just gotta remember to indulge!

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

That is a great story, I need to read that book!

[@FullTimeBooks]

Since my fiction work doesn’t sell anyways, I’ve decided next year that I’m writing a cozy fantasy mystery series that’s just for me. I poured my heart into a series for nearly a decade with few sales for the first book and I’ve yet to sell any for the others. My second series I’ve stopped completely since sales are so awful. I’m switching gears and writing fiction just for me. It’s fun to write a story and make it good, but I don’t care if they’re cheesy or don’t sell. I’ve got my nonfiction which sells a bit each month (hopefully more with 6 books coming next year). Love your content as always 💙

[@reinotsurugi]

As a fellow fiction writer buried in the Amazon algorithm, I salute your self-indulgence. I'm right there myself. It's a gut check but maybe a necessary calibration.

[@MelanieMeadors]

Okay, I'm going to enter my trashy phase. That's it. (I've been stuck--UGH).

[@elliwesishawkins4799]

One of my other favorite things about fanfiction is Ao3s search system. The ability to be so specific with word count or tags has made me a spoiled brat essentially and now when I search things on a library app the best I can do is search by genre and then whatever I type in the bar it’ll search that for titles, authors, or descriptions. So if I want vampires it’ll be vague like vampire might be the title on one book in the search or in the description of the next book in the search. I’ve been spoiled rotten by the in depth search feature of Ao3 and now the only traditionally published books I read are recommended to me and described to me and I look them up by name to read them. But also there are so many good fanfiction authors that I’ll goto their page and read fics they’ve written in different ships or fandom or genre than what I’d usually search for but the writing was so good that I’ll ship that if only for this story they’ve givin. I’ve definitely read so much more now I’ve been reading fanfiction. And at 19:40 when you mention snobbishness towards writing that’s very true in my case as a reader where I found amazing fanfiction and realized oh fanfiction is like looked down on and people judge you for reading it but it’s literally just as good and sometimes better than traditionally published works. I know this is about writing and I do wish I wrote more but with my kid I’m just glad to be reading and fanfiction has really gotten me back into it the past few years. As you say “level up” except I did as a reader.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

That is such a good point about search functions! The ability to find what you want to read is such a factor in what you actually do read.

[@AmaranthLee]

I really like this message. There is always so much pressure on artists of any kind, asking them to be perfect, deep and a light of wisdom in a very messy society. Yet the truth is I listen to Rhapsody of Fire much more than Mozart; writers, musicians, artists in general don't have to be unmatched masters, but Muses and unique voices. I hope one day to become as skilled as you writing my "trashy" projects! Happy for the bookstore too!

[@constancecampbell4610]

Oh, yay! This is good news! 🎉So happy for you and your lovely boss, not to mention your community. 🤗

[@AnbuNinjaXIII]

I'm going to try to internalize this. Need to write more fanfic (and maybe actually finish one). I had my playful phase as a kid with writing, and then I wrote RP on some forums as a teenager, but those phases have passed and now it's just cynical adult me having a difficult time learning how to write again but with somewhat different equipment upstairs. I have known a lot of somewhat snobby people who think that anything other than contemporary litfic is trash (English major...). Which I think is absurd, because I'm least likely to pay attention to your deep literary themes if the setting, premise, and characters are all boring (joking...mostly). I'm so glad to hear about your bookstore! Tangentially related - this is going to sound really mean, but I think one of the most encouraging things I've ever done to make me feel better about writing a modern fantasy novel was reading some the most popular modern fantasy novels. There are a lot of stories that I look up to and I feel like I could never even approach their level, which has turned me into my own kind of snob, and also made me feel hopeless about writing. But I recently read all of The Wheel of Time and a couple of series by Brandon Sanderson and none of those books were...spectacular. In some cases, they were just straight up bad. But people LOVE them. And I love them too (I love Wheel of Time, not so much Sanderson). Anyway, I've started to realize that you don't actually have to be "good" or meet your own personal writing standards to write things that people enjoy and connect with. I don't have literary aspirations, but it would be really nice to connect with a lot of people who are into the same trash I am. So that's been my focus lately as well. Or maybe I'm just avoiding having to study the craft? Whatever lol. It definitely seems like just writing is probably always going to be a more efficient teacher than other kinds of studying.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

That is an excellent point about how often the popular works don't seem that "good". Well, chances are there might be a few popular works you really like, and others that you're like "huh? why?" I tried reading ACOTAR last year and I thought it was...okay. I've read a LOT of YA and I know technically ACOTAR is actually adult, but anyway...it just felt like I'd already read plenty of similar books and I don't know why these took off in particular. I think there are many factors, including perception (a great cover and good marketing can't make for a hit, but they can give a book some rocket fuel early on) and author/fan relationship (Sanderson is excellent at this aspect of it). But part of it is just a mystery.

[@victoriaarico2753]

Yay! Great news about your bookstore! ❤ thanks for another great video.

[@schoo9256]

Thank you for making this. I have held off because i didnt want trash to be my legacy. But it will have me in it. And its ok to make trash not only to help yourself hone your craft, but to push yourself to take the ego out of your work and connect with your most playful yet vulnerable self. Now to *finish* something... As a side note, it's funny to hear someone wish they'd had a fanfiction phase. I *did* have a fanfiction phase, and all the while i felt a bit guilty for not writing original works, because I felt like i was cheating myself by using characters and settings I already knew, when I could be working on my own ideas. I guess the grass is always greener! Both sides still get your practice in, which is what counts!

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

Yeah, that is basically why I didn't have a fan fiction phase. And it probably was just as important to spend that time developing my fantasy world. But...it is true that fan fiction writers are often really good at connecting with audiences...

[@benpayne677]

American Fiction had great dialogue/scene about this. The example of different labels of Johnnie Walker was made. Most of their sales were said to be the red and black labels. The main character was upset that their “trash book” was making so much money. Their agent equated it to having written blue label books his whole life and he finally wrote a red label book.

[@BlackMasterJoe89]

That was a great movie. My favorite part was when he was talking to the publisher/agent about changing the book title 😅

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

Oh I want to see that movie so much, the trailer looked great.

[@LedgerAndLace]

I actually just wrote a Jane Austen retelling. The first draft took 5 weeks and I've been editing and adding for the last year and it's been SO MUCH FUN. Seriously! I think being a "serious" writer sounds tedious. I don't want to read or watch anything that is "raw" or "real" or "gripping" or "gritty." There was a really fun movie with Sam Claflin called "The Book of Love." He wrote a very serious relationship book and it tanked, but was very popular in Mexico, after it was translated. So he goes on a book tour and finds out the translator "embellished" it a bit. 🙂

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

That does sound like a fun movie premise! I have enjoyed so many different types of books, there's a place for everything, but the ones I return to over and over do tend to be more fun and hopeful than raw and gritty. Like Jane Austen for example! And clearly I'm not alone in that.

[@CrazyGreenFluff]

writing is writing, it's expressing your creativity via words rather than visual art. no writing is trash, because there's always someone out there who would like it. but i understand the message of the video and i agree, i love writing whatever i want and having fun with it :D

[@bigbiggoblin2873]

Absolutely! This year I finally started finishing pieces. For so long I wanted to write the perfect novel, over and over and over--- now I've joined a writing group and share a short story every week (nearly). I've been writing way more than ever, and part of that is letting go of perfection or idealism and just write what is fun. Because if the practice is fun, you don't notice its practice.

[@David.M.]

I like your thumbnail for this video. Trash is good if it pays the bills. Cheers

[@billyalarie929]

THIS FEELS LIKE PERMISSION hhhhh TYSM

[@morleywritesbooks]

i always feel a little like an outsider because i never wanted to write until my late teens, after i started doodling things to look busy in my english class (i'd already read all the books we were going over on my own in like 6th grade, which annoyed the teacher for some reason). During that time, i'd stumbled on role-play forums where a lot of it took place in familiar anime worlds, and i learned how to do actual character growth -- which became my writing strength 😅 i worked out a lot of my bad writing spending most of my free time in those forums that were basically group fanfiction But i think that speaks to the importance of fanfiction as a learning tool 😁 Travis, my narrator, agreed to take on my debut only if he liked it (considering i now have an audiobook...) and one of the things he'd said is that it didn't read like a debut, so he figured i must've had at least of couple completed works prior. Which felt like the biggest compliment, ngl🥰 and yeah, i just want to keep getting better and write stories i enjoy reading. Because when editing comes, i'm gonna have to rad it 104x LOL

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

I did a lot of RPing as well. It was the most fun ever and also soooo great for character development. But we did it all as a chat, so I didn't develop some of the other prose skills quite as much, and it was all original characters and worlds. That is an awesome compliment from your narrator, because yeah, reading aloud really reveals all the clunky bits even more than reading on paper, so he would know!

[@BillSmithBooks]

Thank you for this!! As authors, we should write the stuff we love and believe in. I write to entertain myself and write the stuff I want to. I don't really much care what anybody else thinks. Self-indulgent pulpy space fantasy author representing here!

[@teresachaotic.corner]

Okay, there's this one person I know IRL who once said to me "Is your book like Twilight? Cuz I can't do Twilight?" And I'm thinking: "Why would you assume Twilight?" I mean, I can only wish to be Twilight, but she meant it as a slight. It took me years to get to this level of confidence where I just brazenly announce to people I meet IRL: "I write indie romance." But I still get the odd "You look like you write romance" which makes me double take "What do you mean I look like I write romance?" There's a 'look'?

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

Does this person not actually read and Twilight is like, the only book on their radar over the last 20 years? I swear I've met people like that! Maybe there is a look because no one has ever told me I look like I write romance. I assume I am too disheveled, LOL. I don't think of you as looking like a romance writer, though. I feel like romance writers, in my stereotype, have some kind of deliberate hair cut and they don't wear t-shirts, they wear a "cute top".

[@teresachaotic.corner]

​@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor This person actually reads nothing and the only books on her radar is big name books. So obviously, my book had to be either Twilight or Harry Potter or Da Vinci Code (yes, we're stuck in the last 20 years lol...). Now I need to know what this deliberate haircut is! 🤣 I think you look like a children's book author circa 1977 who writes fantasy classics. If I didn't know what Madeleine L'Engle looked like, I'd say you were her.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

@@teresachaotic.corner Well, I guess they haven't made a blockbuster movie of anything popular recently. That's an important component of knowing about books when you never actually read... I just mean any haircut where you go to a salon and actually ask for *something*. Not like going to GreatClips and asking for a trim. Your hairdresser has a name and your haircut has a description. That's how I think of romance authors I guess. LOL Madeleine L'Engle! Aw! That's a compliment! I guess I would think you look like you write books that are funny and romantic. And that's actually true! I might think YA like Stephanie Perkins though, not "romance novels". (Am I still being mean to romance novels? I actually think it's just that I always feel out of place in a large gathering of romance writers.)

[@B-RollBooks]

I love this advice! Whenever I’m stressed, I like to write short stories set in the worlds of my favorite sitcoms. It’s amazing how freeing such an exercise can be.

[@fionamclean6533]

Such great advice. Thank you.

[@mirophew7164]

I’ve been writing a novel for fun, it helps with my anxiety, the process feels great

[@Phoebetales]

I write fan fiction and love it. I've learned so much about myself and my writing. And I've made some good friends. I once thought of fan fiction as junk food and was embarrassed. Now I see it doesn't matter. I'm entertaining myself and others. I'd love to support myself with my writing, sure, but I'm having fun with fan fic and Substack.

[@steveneardley7541]

On playfulness in creativity. I played piano seriously as a kid. My teachers were extremely serious Eastern Europeans--very disciplined, very no-nonsense. Then I had a teacher who encouraged me to experiment--"try playing it this way, that way. See what you like. Which of these techniques works best for you?" That was an infinitely better approach, but as you've pointed out, not easy to adopt as an adult.

[@DebErelene]

My project started out as purely self-indulgence. But i couldn't keep from sharing those early chapters (to my blog back in 2009!) & was surprised to find that several friends *also* enjoyed it. So, suddenly I was researching story structure & beats, etc. That book even got picked up by a small publisher. Book 2 was written so much faster (even around my first son, but he was a text book napper) & i think is a much better book. But ... 2 kids is a very different kettle of fish, & book 3 has taken 10 years to be *nearly* done! So, i don't have millions of words behind me. I'm still finding fun in this little, old project that i now self publish. I am looking forward to typing the final "The End" though, as another fantasy world has plonked itself in my brain. The kids are growing up. The business needs me in it less. Hopefully now i can write something a little bit grand, but still fun, a whole lot faster.

[@EleanorDeakinPoet]

The way I look at it, if *I* like it, maybe there's a singular other person somewhere who will also like it lol. I mostly write not great poetry, which let's face it, no one is making a living at poetry no matter how good they are. It has to be something of a compulsion regardless of recognition.

[@Fubar2024]

Thank you!! Love your forthright openness. It really helps when struggling to write.

[@artzpops]

Great advice, ty 😊

[@elementeight8]

Yay! Bookstore. 💚🌱💚

[@PauladaleMcLean]

This was just so freaking good! Really enjoyed it - could write a non-fiction book right here about this whole high art/trash tension-journey thing. So happy to hear about the bookstore!

[@REMurphy]

I appreciate your perspective. I felt that, when you said Fantasy and SciFi are in a weird place right now. So true. I’m a fantasy author, all I wanted, but am a closet lit fiction writer hehe Ty for the videos, they are great.

[@joscole4267]

After saying for years and years I was going to write a novel the thing that actually started me writing was just vomiting out a lot of fanfiction because I couldn't keep track of limbs 🤣 It's really easy to put myself down for that but the 200k plus words I put together gave me the confidence to actually start writing a "proper" book. Thanks for reminding me that writing for fun is sometimes what we need.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

"couldn't keep track of limbs", LOL...relatable I struggled through writing a couple of books and half-finished books in my teens/early 20s but I didn't really start finishing them consistently until I wrote this purely for-fun book in one month with basically no plot, all just my characters I loved having a good time, and then it was like, oh wow. You're capable of way more than you thought! It really does help!

[@joscole4267]

@ driven to writing by the search for the allusive third arm.. 😎 also being 37 and having a job that suddenly gave me free time helped. Thanks again for your videos though. It’s so nice to get a balanced less influencer like take on things. Hope the post-hurricane clear up goes quickly.

[@mayorathfoglaltvolt]

Often a well-written - so called - "trash" novel feels more real, feels more natural, than most of those sublime novels. People often preach about "try to be more", "try better yourself" and stuff, but I think the key to a happy life is to learn how to enjoy the simple "trash" moments. Most of us not gonna be heroes, not gonna change the world, all we can do is indulge in some fun while we are on this mud planet.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

So true. I try to remind myself of that about so many things. It's okay just to have fun.

[@AJBell-dh6ry]

Love the thumbnail. You should always write what you want to read.

[@vagrant2863]

It does put things into perspective. I've tried writing things for years but never finished anything because of a fear of being trashy. Maybe being less snobby (or perhaps more accepting of my own lack of quality) is precisely what I need.

[@valala2987]

I agree so much with this! There is a place for every genre, no matter what other people might think about it. If we all exclusively wrote literary fiction the world would be a very boring place.

[@vritarita6871]

I feel like I have been too serious and judging of myself, and this approach - hey just write for fun under a different name - is super beneficial. I am really trying to convince myself that this is fineeee.😂

[@seabrookel5037]

Since having kids I struggle to write anything just for myself/fun, it always feels like I have to use what precious little free time I have for financially productive things and if I’m not writing with the goal of publication/money, then I’m just “wasting” time. :( Wish I could get back to that pre-kids headspace where it felt more like a fun hobby I could hopefully earn from one day if I felt like it.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

When I was really financially strapped it was so hard to write anything for myself, and part of that is, if I do slip into "the zone"...I can't come out until I've burned through it and that can take days. So I would like to say, oh just set aside one afternoon here and there, but for me it's too drug-like and doesn't work like that. I think it would be really hard with kids!

[@seabrookel5037]

@ Yes, this is me too! It’s the ADHD hyperfocus problem, I definitely work best in intense bursts. I recently decided to use my daughter’s once-a-week gymnastics lesson, when I’d be just sitting around scrolling my phone anyway, as time to write for myself, but it’s hard to find any sort of groove or momentum in such small, infrequent windows.

[@Cinephilegirl_]

This year I choose to write a toxic relationship in a cozy and I have so much fun writing a character that was complex but also a bit a lot unlikeable it's my lovechild because I don't do romance but it have me wanting to editing an tackle that project to publish I guess maybe the next year but when I write that first draft I was so happy that was all I needed at that time

[@valvihk3649]

That's really cool that you feel like all type of writing is important. I love to write and read horror fiction - gory horror. After reading much more important books on important subjects, I feel like shit. My stories don't do that. My stories are purely for those who find entertainment in horror, and I wished I could write something more important. This sense made me stop writing. . .

[@Mindfulmaven7]

Currently working on a book that is about a woman who meets a foreign man from Egypt. He’s here in the USA and they fall in love but then he disappears without any explanation… stay tuned. 😊

[@morleywritesbooks]

you can't leave us on a cliff hanger like THAT! 😂 where's the rest???

[@johannageisel5390]

@@morleywritesbooks Guess: Guy was the reincarnation of Osiris and has been murdered by the reincarnation of Set and now the woman has to piece his body back together.

[@pendlera2959]

@@johannageisel5390 That sounds genuinely cool!

[@morleywritesbooks]

@@johannageisel5390 ... i want this book

[@johannageisel5390]

* sigh * Yeah, I can basically never fishing anything, because I'm so bad at plotting. :( My stories always fall apart.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

I was like that for a while too. A LONG WHILE. The best ways I got out of it was to either write something with basically no plot and just accept it, because you still learn from that, or just totally lift a plot from something else and stick your own characters in it, because you also learn from that...

[@johannageisel5390]

@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor Hm, interesting approach.

[@zodlord5669]

the guy wrote Doc Savage didn't give a fuck, he had hard critics but he didn't care because he was traveling on vacation in his yacht during the Great Depression.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

Haha, well, this IS one reason I have made videos about finances on my writing channel. Writing is admittedly much easier if you have "f--- you" money...

[@i.b.640]

I have not been writing since 2021. I miss it. Everytime I start, I hate every Word. I'd love to get out of my head...

[@petermiller8480]

I thought I was Betsy for a second :)

[@donutlover9222]

I kept wanting to write my "passion project" and when I finally gave myself permission, I realized I didn't really have a solid idea. Also, I don't want to give a 'message' to anyone... It's not my place. I don't want to preach to anyone and when I tried to form something solid from my passion project, it just felt like a chaotic preachy mess. Still wondering if what I'm currently writing isn't good enough or isn't good for the world - but I don't know what else to do.

[@siameseire]

Yes, God forbid a book be happy instead of suicide-inducing. 😚

[@mykaluvy]

Recently, I had the realization that I could just write stuff. Which probably sounds strange, but I have always felt that I'm not good enough to actually write stories. I'm a heavy fanfic reader, and I always thought to myself, "I'll never be able to write as good as this person." So I was just like, man, I have all these fun and cute story ideas. I hope someone writes something like that. Then, one day, I was like well I could write it, and even if it's cringy, at least I tried something. Now I'm just writing nonsense self-indulgent fanfiction that no one will probably read but myself. And it's so fun! I do want to work on my writing skills and share my work someday, but that's not the goal right now. The goal is to just have fun!

[@steveneardley7541]

Actually, it's the "important" writing that I have always ignored, since I don't like most of it. For most of my life I figured I was just an anti-intellectual, because I hated most of the stuff we read in school--Catcher in the Rye, Hemingway, Silas Marner, Jane Austen, Dickens, English literature in general. I think Mark Twain was the only writer I enjoyed in high school. I was finally turned around when I read Angela's Ashes and some books by Amy Tan: "Oh, these are actually interesting." And you can tell that the motivation behind these books is not to be "important," but to communicate something they need to communicate. It's a totally different thing.

[@baharhoshyar6752]

Thank you for this video. Can you share your experience publishing a few of your books from idea to release & marketing. I’m a struggling indie romance writer.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

You might like this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYi9g5evnrWSntk And this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d32yi5-egc2Gp5Y I haven't done one all the way through the process yet, but those cover aspects of it. With that said, marketing has me kind of stumped lately. There have been some big shifts on social media and ad platforms in recent years and marketing is NOT as easy as it used to be...at least for me.

[@elementeight8]

No writing is “trash”, it’s just writing. Don’t surround yourself with people that say as much. Don’t feel you need to fit in anywhere. If people don’t like you, or your work, move on. The world is sad enough without genre fiction being another thing to feel guilty about.

[@xyklapse]

Some of the greatest fiction ever written was done in genre and pulp styles like Philip K. Dick and H. P. Lovecraft. So I don't think such perceptions matter in the long term. All that matters is that you write!

[@riannemitchell6182]

Just starting to write goofy fan fiction in middle age so...Yes! And thank you. But also, I ordered Magic Mind from your link months ago and that is the only reason I'm alert enough in the early morning hours when I have time to write it. You looked a little sheepish during your plug - which I get - but don't be. Perimenopause brain fog is real and it helps.

[@lidiyafoxgloveauthor]

Oh gosh, I hope I don't look too sheepish! Magic Mind has really been helping me with the perimenopause brain fog too! I'm glad I'm not the only one.