Your Hands Go INSIDE this Keyboard

[@LinusTechTips]

Hello! After posting the video, the Datahand's creator, Dale Retter, reached out to us (and to Lalaboard's Ben, it turns out). Here are some points he wanted to share with the world - which he typed on his Datahand, naturally: "Why DataHand didn’t sell enough units to stay in business? The long learning curve meant only a small percentage of existing flat keyboard users were willing to switch to DataHand. Most that did were motivated by the pain and discomfort flat keyboard use was causing them. For first time keyboard users (mostly children) learning DataHand vs. a flat keyboard would be faster. This is because DataHand eliminates “hand float” and provides more immediate and better differentiated tactile feedback. Also, DataHand use does not block the key labels. However, the initial selling price of DataHand prevented it from becoming an option for most first-time keyboard users. The DataHand devices as initially sold were only intended to be a real-world proof of useability. It succeeded in demonstrating it could be learned, allow faster typing and largely eliminating the user discomfort and injury caused by flat keyboard usage. A published peer reviewed study showed user discomfort halved in the first three months and halved again after six months. It was hoped that sufficient funding could be obtained to allow DataHand to be re-engineered for lower cost production, a more attractive appearance, and the inclusion of other intended design features. For example, a better mouse function and software to provide an onscreen display that would make learning and use easier. The funding required for this was not obtained. I believe widespread long-term use of DataHand keyboards would have proved they were faster, less error prone, and would provide less risk of injury and much greater comfort over a lifetime of sustainable use. Why does DataHand closely emulate the flat keyboard arrangement? As you noted it reduces the learning curve by requiring only four keys to be in intuitively non obvious locations. The present QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow down typing. This was in order to prevent mechanical typewriters from having the metal keys from jamming because more than one key was activated at the same time. For example, E-D is the most common letter sequence in the English language. To prevent a typist hitting the D key before the E key got out of the way, the E and D keys were put on the same finger. For DataHand this is an advantage because it turns many common letter sequences into a single ricocheting motion of a single finger. With DataHand you can hit the E key and then the D key with a single finger’s elliptical motion and no risk of a mechanical key jam. Why is the DataHand mouse so bad? They are “finger-mice” not intended to be a primary mouse input. They can sometimes be useful for spreadsheet navigation or some text manipulations. At present it is suggested that DataHand should be accompanied with a conventional mouse device. The primary mouse input was intended to be provided by moving the entire DataHand unit like a conventional mouse. The DataHand was intended to lock in position during normal data entry. However, an increased hand pressure was intended to release it to glide easily like a conventional mouse. Both hands were intended to operate simultaneously in this manner with one hand being a fine control and the other a more rapid mouse. Additionally, a thumb operated joystick mouse was being developed that could be accessed without removing the user’s hands from the DataHand palm rests. What is a realistic learning time? A guitar is generally considered much easier to learn to play at a basic level than a violin. However, a violinist who has spent years or decades becoming a good violinist, cannot pick up a guitar for the first time and expect to play it very well in a “short time”. The flat keyboard is like a violin, DataHand is like a quitar. In our experience beginners with a few 20 min dedicated self-training sessions per day gradually become proficient enough to achieve slow but workable speeds in a few days or weeks. Highly motivated users have mastered it faster. As a general rule most persistent users were able to type slowly within days, and equal their flat keyboard speed within months. After a number of months most users become faster than they were on their flat keyboards. If one is starting from scratch DataHand can be learned much faster than the use of a flat keyboard. This is in part because the most difficult part of learning a flat keyboard is being able to float one’s hands over the keyboard and reliably find the intended key without looking. In contrast with DataHand there is no need to “float your hands”, and each key touches a different finger or finger part providing much clearer tactile feedback than on a flat keyboard where every key feels the same. It is also why once it learned operators make fewer mistakes. A personal anecdote When I was first starting DataHand, my office manager, an older woman with decades of typing experience, typed well over 90 words a minute. She was not a DataHand fan and insisted on using a flat keyboard. Eventually when we began to have investors visiting our office, I insisted she had to be seen using a DataHand. Very reluctantly and for only a few hours a day, or when visitors were expected, did she use DataHand. For weeks she complained that DataHand was slower and made it harder to do her job. Some months later on a Friday afternoon she told me she had to do a lot of typing for her church group over the weekend. She asked if she could take her DataHand home for the weekend because it was faster and didn’t make her hands hurt. Are the 4 modes a disadvantage? No, because with DataHand all the keys can be confidently touch-typed. For example, most typists can’t type the fourth-row numeric keys without looking. With DataHand most users can very quickly learn to touch type the number keys which have with the mode change become home keys. Likewise, when particular function keys are frequently used with DataHand they can be accessed reliably without looking at the keyboard."

[@AverageSneedEnjoyer]

Awesome update, thanks!

[@Paintballman251]

Very cool he responded! Interesting stuff!

[@almond5560]

Now I really want one...

[@hy5e2crazy]

i am niot redaing this lmao

[@L70ECT]

Thanks for the update, it was a good read.

[@BasicallyHomeless]

boutta play ranked w this

[@joshualanders3211]

Hope there's a video for it lol

[@lucass3485]

exploitable?

[@doublekup]

You go girl

[@rexy_3056]

Can’t wait for the video “exploiting siege with a newborn”

[@windowsxpprofessional]

Stfu

[@vishnuvenkatesh7592]

This is an 80s hacker prop if I've ever seen one.

[@twizz420]

Hackerman for sure

[@Mr.Morden]

This thing gives you a bonus to hacking the Gibson.

[@xanosdarkpaw1]

I think I literally saw this in Ghost in the Shell.

[@PizzaPowerXYZ]

+50 hacking speed (fully upgraded) 70% chance to confuse enemy -999 style & carpal tunnel syndrome

[@rafflesmaos]

It was used in Contact.. close nuff.

[@diegomatheus3057]

This keyboard with the 10 key clusters might be awesome for a hiragana, since you can put each family in one finger and the last one can be used for the modifiers

[@RoryStarr]

This is what I was thinking because Japanese keyboards are some Rubik's cube nonsense.

[@HilbertXVI]

@@RoryStarr Usually people just use qwerty and type in English and your keyboard (IME) automatically converts it to the Japanese equivalent.

[@enderloch4922]

@@HilbertXVI but.. japanese people aren't going to learn english so they can type?

[@totally_not_a_bot]

@@enderloch4922 Japanese is phonetic, so they just type syllables and mash space until the right thing is selected. Usually word by word. It can be slow or blisteringly fast. I don't have a Japanese IME installed or I would be extra pedantic and give examples.

[@TragicGFuel]

​@@enderloch4922spoken truly like a monolingual. But it's very easy to learn the english alphabet and its association with japanese sound.

[@JoshCMinecraft]

“Can’t put a price on health! Except in the states…” Yeah, that one hit a bit too hard 😂

[@Ra-Hul-K]

well at least you get to put a price tag on your health.. in other parts of the world people ruin their health working for peanuts 😂😓

[@speedstyle.]

@@Ra-Hul-K James is clearly comparing to where he lives, Canada, where they're paid the same but spend half as much on healthcare and military.

[@gidedin]

​@@Ra-Hul-K Tell me again how the minimum income in US is not peanuts? 7.25/hour gets you nothing but a miserable life on the street, because you cant even afford rent with that.

[@Ra-Hul-K]

@@gidedin well.. I was trying to point out that there are countries with minimum wages lower than that of the US.. imagine working for as low as $2/hour with no included healthcare..

[@WeaponOfMyDestructio]

Bruh when I heard "hospital not in network" I was so confused. I say just crash your car across the border

[@dumpsterdawg]

The letters 'T' and 'G' are far too close together on the keyboard. This is why I'll never be ending an email with 'Regards' ever again

[@aminelswefy1808]

lol

[@lukekjos2814]

Lol

[@AndreiTache]

Omg, took me a long minute xD

[@silentantagonist2333]

Kind regards, @dumpsterdawg

[@Cosmitzian]

Hum? That's a left hand only word for me. Regards.

[@Frog-ko6uu]

I LOVE how the first thing Anthony does is look to find out how it’s plugged into the PC!

[@grn1]

I actually just watched a video (Ben Eater I think) that talked about how USB keyboards work and a higher quality USB keyboards should be just as fast if not faster than a PS/2 one while cheaper USB keyboards may be quite a bit slower. If memory serves (not sure on the exact numbers) a PS/2 keyboard needs 16ms to send a signal but always sends the signal as soon as a key is pressed. The cheap USB keyboard he tested use USB 2.0 slow mode which only polled every micro second (I think) while the faster USB keyboard use USB 2.0 high speed and polled every millisecond. The actual data transfer while more complex is also much faster due to a higher clock speed (especially in high speed mode). Some comments also said that some keyboards will actually register as 2 keyboards so as to get around limitations in the OS and allow even faster polling rates.

[@no1DdC]

@Og03 Have you ever finished a book?

[@cnr_0778]

@Og03 Bruh... That's literally 5 lines.

[@nutme]

@@grn1 Yeah but wasn't pressing multiple keys a problem in the ps/2?

[@bipbop3121]

@@nutme nkro had more usb limit

[@morgan1168]

James: "We can only speculate on what led to this curious keyboards demise" Nobody bought it.

[@LeftJoystick]

I’m sure WoW guy from Southpark had one

[@fredwupkensoppel8949]

Cue Dankpods:"CAN you BELIEVE nobody bought this??"

[@arnox4554]

Maybe it would be super good for those who are disabled in the arms somehow... ?

[@angelarch5352]

Very likely...

[@angelarch5352]

@@arnox4554 Speech to text if you have no arms. Also this product won't help if you have no arms.

[@Rhynri]

Fun fact: this was the controls for the alien ship in the movie ‘Contact’. I bought one of these as a teenager. Honestly the smart way to go with the DataHand was to get the Dvorak layout version like you mentioned. It was a little kit you bought from them and installed inside it, and came with new overlays. That way, you weren’t trying to relearn QWERTY, but instead pick up the already faster Dvorak layout and your brain would associate that with the data hand. It took me maybe an hour to get back to 40 WPM once I received it. The mouse is a lot easier to use when you do it as intended by using both fingers. It’s additive so not only do you get two movement speeds you also could then do diagonals. Doesn’t really make up for a mouse but works well enough for code and documents with short movements. When I bought my Pro II in 2008 they were selling them with a little PS/2 to USB adapter.

[@jaimeeoww]

They acting like we didnt literally take several classes on typing on a normal keyboard growing up.

[@kevanb111]

yep i remember as early as 8 years old having computer sessions at school, learning to type was very jarring at first. this hand thing had potential if it had caught on i think.

[@Naaronn]

@@kevanb111 It's not about if it's *harder* to learn than a normal keyboard, it's about how *different* it is. If you want to have a kid, and raise them using this keyboard their whole life then be my guest, but that's not the market for this. *Any* design, no matter how non-ergonomic, awkward, or just plain useless it is will be second nature if you've used it long enough. The market is people switching over, and having to relearn completely how to use a keyboard is a big investment.

[@Sanepie]

In the US maybe, in Europe we don't get that kind of lessons, I learnt on my own and it was fairly fast

[@aeoteroa818]

@@Naaronn its scarasm you fucking breadstick

[@Naaronn]

@@aeoteroa818... What's sarcasm? I honestly have no idea what you might be referring to, none of this thread has been insincere.

[@jacobmontgomery5194]

Realistically if we all used these from childhood, we would probably be fine

[@carrerasrivera]

DVORAK

[@integratedhatespreader]

@@carrerasrivera QWERTY

[@erikrodrigues9270]

@@integratedhatespreader COLEMAK

[@ottojagenstedt9740]

In that sense without having tried it, I think only dvorak could make such a difference having been naturally implemented from the start. Even if no one had used a keyboard every, a school or workplace would be able to get like 3 of these instead of 50+ cheap kayboards. So this could actually never "had happened" in the way that dirt cheap digital versions of the "typewriter layout" took over the world.

[@allyourcode]

NEURALINK

[@colday74]

I was 'lucky' enough to be able to test a prototype of one of these back in 1994 (I think). The finger keys were designed differently and your fingers slipped into sockets so you could also type a letter by lifting your finger as well as down and sideways. As I say, was a prototype but was fairly interesting.

[@rodimusmaximus3912]

@@FadeDreamer Joke's on you, I love Rick Astley

[@TheKingDrew]

@@FadeDreamer that links staying blue

[@sauldickson4079]

That kind of reminds me of the Azeron Cyborg.

[@Fant]

I think letting people customize the layout could help them get used to it faster. Each person has their own system, priorities etc and that could make it easier for an average user to get used to.

[@alexmashkin863]

Average user wouldn't even dream of customizing anything :-)

[@nobodyimportant2470]

I was thinking similar. I am not so sure about using it for typing but it does look like it would make a great 1 hand gaming keypad if you could program what each button did.

[@Srcsqwrn]

@@alexmashkin863 I feel like that's not true. This is aimed at people who have issues. Those people are usually looking for customizations.

[@yaknow5252]

But you don't feel that away about qwerty. Provides if this was standard keyboard it wouldn't be an issue

[@Blue5wirl]

“A more optimised layout that doesn’t even try to be qwerty […] something that puts all the vowels on your strongest fingers.” Shout out to my Dvorak brothers and sisters.

[@johnbarbero757]

Jdpps kjdod!

[@exegetor]

In '95 I took part in a comparison study for a large potential buyer. After establishing the baseline for 40 typists over 2 weeks, the group was split up: for the next 2 weeks, 20 continued on regular keyboards and 20 switched to the datahand. At the end of the two weeks, the datahand group averaged slightly faster keystrokes than the control group, but a slight increase in typos erased that advantage. The biggest difference was the datahand group, at the end of an 8 hour shift of typing, were far less fatigued than the control group. The datahand is was a *weird* experience, and it *will* take at least a week or two of persistant use to become fluent, but it is a wonderful device. 5 stars!

[@bubboi2413]

I love buying out entire companies, thanks LTT for recommending me my next acquisition in seasonic

[@HoloScope]

Oh my

[@bubboi2413]

To clarify, in the sponsor segment they say “here’s something you can buy, our sponsor seasonic” it’s a joke about buying the company seasonic because of the wording in the ad read

[@shutitfukface]

@@SmartLittledrew went right over your head eh 😂

[@NEDMKitten]

@@HoloScope *in George takei* voice

[@NEDMKitten]

Timely company, from their website front page today: A LETTER FROM OUR CEO Dear Seasonic Global Family, In the past few months, most of us have experienced significant changes in our daily lives because of COVID-19.

[@AgilesRem]

i love how everyone looks the same and then theres david looking like he just start his first day of work at ltt in 2015

[@shawnjb1989]

As I watched this I was constantly thinking about my AZERON gaming pad, it’s not a typing keyboard by any means, being a controller snob, i haven’t gotten around to mastering it, but I can see it becoming second nature just as a controller is to me

[@GileadGaming]

It's literally the azeron minus the thumbpad

[@Tryant69]

Yeah kinda feel like they just copied this with a different design xD

[@SAT0SHUNI]

i play with azeron, started with minecraft and now im playing apex legends, stuffs amazing though.

[@GileadGaming]

@@SAT0SHUNI i want to get it for ffxiv but scared in how to make the thing work without making myself shit at the game

[@SAT0SHUNI]

@@GileadGaming honestly what I did was spend a couple days playing and adjusting the keys, I had my most used keys on the bottom as they're the easiest to press then the next most used in the middle and the least on top, this doesn't always work out it just takes practice, believe me when I first got it I was frustrated but eventually learned it. If anything you're biggest problem isn't remembering the keys it's accidentally pressing 2 when you only want to use one either way I would just say get it if you think it's worth it and spend a couple hours a day trying to learn it

[@palacsintaz]

I've been using Datahands for 20 years. I have converted mine to USB HID (from PS/2) and a custom controller and firmware with some tweaks to the layout. Yes, that original mouse emulation sucked, I didn't even bother to add the equivalent to my firmware I just use a regular trackball and mouse. The Datahand is still the best though. I am always on the lookout for alternatives but nothing comes close. I also use regular keyboards (laptops etc), switching back and forth is not a problem at all. It's all QWERTY after all and while the finger movements are different there is still a spatial mapping that's natural to my fingers. Back in the day it took me about 2 weeks to get up to speed. The accidental touches were the biggest challenge for me too but that only happens while you are getting used to it. Now it's all finger-memory, just like on a regular keyboard or perhaps even more so. Speed-wise, it's about the same for me but that's not the reason why I use the Datahand. Originally it was ergonomic but now I just like it. I play MOBAs and other games using it too.

[@R.K_Chalkboard]

Bro, imagine sweating DDR or Osu Mania with this crap. You're either going to be at the top 10, or bottom 10. There's no in between.

[@ShiroCh_ID]

oh yess with its 4k,8k and 12k Nd maybe more

[@tiagobelo4965]

God tier or instant fail, no other possibility

[@majkati69]

Oh lord now I wanna try this for mania.

[@albancabannes7963]

Just write osu! In lowercase with a exclamation mark and the game mode after like : osu!mania

[@albancabannes7963]

@@FadeDreamer this will not work

[@nice8D]

I'd like to see James progress after typing with it for a month.

[@Arkeshan]

Me too buddy me too

[@Ra-Hul-K]

I was going to comment the same too

[@nice8D]

@@FadeDreamer Haha 😄

[@panthermodern64]

I feel like this should be a Lazy Game Reviews video.

[@OtakuboyT]

Greetings...this is a LTT thing.

[@jonathanyong2637]

Came here to say this!

[@racealistic]

Greetings "weird nerd hand flick" this is a LGR Blerb. But for real though, Clint should cover this :D

[@ianmiller6040]

LGR Oddware when?

[@MaxDad7]

My exact thoughts and was wondering if someone beat me to the comments!

[@xezzee]

Edit: Also an Add: Also found something interesting: Azeron Cyborg is a controller designed for one hand which offers 26 or so keys easily accessible for your fingers. They should make this but only one handed and sell it as "MMORPG Keyboard! Just for you, no longer do you need to reach 6 trough 9 while holding Shift or Control to be able to use all your abilities!" :D

[@Kepe]

Check out Azeron Cyborg. It's exactly what you described.

[@xezzee]

@@Kepe already did and now I am just waitint lol.

[@BlarghMeow]

Why wouldn't you just use the left keyboard and assign your abilities to the plethora of buttons already available on that one? No reason to sell one specifically with on ehand

[@Kepe]

@@BlarghMeow What are you talking about? The keyboard in the video is from the 90s and not available for purchase.

[@BlarghMeow]

@@Kepe so what?

[@scumfisher718]

This keyboard saved my career. I had RSI/OOS so bad I couldn't pick up a paperback book, and couldn't use a computer at all for six months. I have been using a DataHand for more than 20 years, and it is the only keyboard that I have continued to be able to use for long periods. I have tried any number of other ergo keyboards (mainly because I am so paranoid that my DataHands will break down some day) but nothing else comes close. As I remember it, it took only a couple of weeks to get my typing speed up to somewhere close to what it was on a standard keyboard; partly I think it is because the movements are so different that you are not fighting muscle memory to any great extent. Now I can switch back and forth between typing on the DataHand (on which I am now using Colemak-DH) and a standard keyboard without any issues. To give you an idea how vital this keyboard is to me, the only time I found a second hand one for sale on eBay I paid over US$2000 for it, at a time when I had very little spare cash. Brilliant, beautifully designed piece of kit.

[@eafadeev]

there is CharaChorder it's based on the same idea, but it uses keys that you can tilt in four direction and press down. It supports chorded data input, so you can type commonly used words much faster.

[@sharvfish]

@@eafadeev I also have a CharaChorder, and to be honest I couldn't make it work for me. It is not possible to adjust the keys at all, so I found it got quite painful to use after a relatively short time, and the fact that your thumbs have to control two keys simultaneously does not work very well. If your hands were exactly the right size for the CharaChorder and you made good use of the chords then I can see it might be possible to type quickly, but it wasn't a solution for me. There *IS* now a replacement available for the DataHand, the Svalboard, based on the same design, which is as good as the DataHand, and that for me is saying something. :-)

[@eafadeev]

@@sharvfish thanks for sharing the info. Did you find CharaChorder keys inconvenient to use in the mechanical sense, besides the unfamiliar key mapping and the ttumb keys? Does Svalboard support chorded entry? I might consider one of these gadgets if I fail at steno.

[@sharvfish]

@@eafadeev The CharaChorder keys have a very different action to the DataHand/Svalboard. It may be just because I am used to it, but the DH/Sval key mechanism, which is magnetic keys and optoelectrical switches, is far less strain on my hands than any other type of switch: very light activation force and very clean break to the action. The CharaChorder switches are much more effort, and the feedback you get from typing is much less precise. The contorted hand position and the thumbs are the biggest drawback to the CC though. The Svalboard is completely programmable, with a decent amount of onboard memory compared with most programmable keyboards, so you can configure it for chords, Hold/Tap, Layers, different key layouts etc. It doesn't support the sort of chorded whole-word entry that the CharaChorder does, with a configurable chord/word dictionary, but I am not fully sold on that as a concept to be honest. My main concern is with comfort over a long period of typing, rather than max words per minute. CharaChorder does also sell a USB dongle (the "CharaChorder X") that you can use with any modern keyboard, that implements their chording approach, if that was something you wanted to try separately.

[@eafadeev]

@@sharvfish Thank you! I want to increase speed of entry, no issues with the wrists. I've been using Dvorak layout for about 10 years, it's more comfortable than qwerty, but not a lot faster to type.

[@TylerComptonShow]

I love LTT ergonomic keyboard reviews, but I was a bit disappointed that James didn't learn this one like he has with the others. I know that's a lot to ask, but I would have loved to hear if this thing actually works as a daily driver keyboard! Maybe an idea for a follow-up video someday?

[@Dr.Spatula]

Did you not see where they used another employee as a standard? Half a day and virtually nothing. How much of a time sink into something that doesn't exist anymore are you looking for?

[@TylerComptonShow]

@@Dr.Spatula Well, more than half a day :) It took me a couple weeks to get good with my Ergodox EZ keyboard. It's the nature of the beast.

[@letmegetbacktoyou]

I would normally agree, but since it's near impossible to find 2nd hand, that sort of result isn't particularly useful for us viewers - wouldn't matter much either way if you can't get one.

[@Dr.Spatula]

@@TylerComptonShow that's why I mentioned it not existing anymore. If it were something still on the market or if there were a very comparable product, then yeah. Spend some time with it. Otherwise not much of a reason

[@TylerComptonShow]

@@Dr.Spatula That's a fair point

[@hudge3896]

Title: “Aliens exist... and they made this keyboard” Mark Zuckerberg: *Yes*

[@Dr_Hax]

@@neondemon5137 this implies that aliens are not made out of meat. How do you know this? 🤔

[@michaelsfather3664]

@@Dr_Hax Cause theres no meat in u

[@michaelsfather3664]

@@Dr_Hax And i hear aliens are vegetarians XD

[@Dr_Hax]

@@michaelsfather3664 jokes on you i eat humans

[@BaconSenpai]

epic meme bro very upvote yes from me XDDDD 10/10

[@tempest_dawn]

James: "THERE'S FOUR LAYERS!!!" Me *looking at my QMK config with 13 layers*: "Oops"

[@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart]

yeah lmao

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

How do you even count layers? I use UCW, which turns the capslock key into a modifier, but how many layers do I actually have?

[@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart]

@@matejlieskovsky9625 How many different characters/functions can a key output? There's your layers. In a normal keyboard you usually have two to four - e.g. mine is ABNT2 and I can press AltGr for another layer that outputs / when I press "Q" and ? when I press "W", it's super useful. That's two layer modifiers (Shift/Caps and AltGr) which can be stacked to generate four total layers.

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

@@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart Ok, so I am at four with shift and caps/altgr (in order to have a modifier within reach for either hand). But I am toying around with the idea of adding some more... Might have to take a look at QMK for that.

[@patrickbuchanan3960]

I used this for a few years also due to a horrible case tendinitis in both hands. It did help but ultimately I noticed issues with flexing my fingers side to side. However there was nothing remotely close in the 2000s that reduced the pain like this did. Luckily over years of massage therapy (ART/Graston) and using dragon voice recognition for longer documents. My hands healed. Enough. I have used ergodox since it came out and now use the moonlander. Love them!!

[@vivekishere]

Honestly by design it wasn't a bad one, like no doubt they thought it was going to take over the world.

[@FrankTinsley]

I disagree. I think their main theory that RSI should be fought by reducing motion is totally incorrect. In reality, motion is actually often good for your health. It’s well understood that main cause of RSI is locking the body into positions that constantly tense delicate muscles and tendons. By creating a system that is extremely sensitive to hand motions you discourage natural motion and encourage damaging tension. A bad idea all around.

[@Cruznick06]

@@FrankTinsley it could be really useful for people with arthritis. I honestly want to get ahold of one and see if it helps.

[@FrankTinsley]

@@Cruznick06 honestly I would suspect that it would still cause constant tension and likely make arthritis worse.

[@Pizzatird]

I’ve been using this data hand since release in a love it. I can type Faster than anyone I know. After it released in 95 I loved it so much I bought three more units because I knew it wasn’t going to last. To this day I still have two brand new units left, now knowing that I am seeing that it is getting revived I know that I won’t ever have to worry about losing this keyboard anymore. Great video and I’m so happy that you guys got to experience this very special keyboard.

[@ConorDoesGames]

So are you like actually serious or....?

[@Cyba_IT]

That's cool that you liked it but I don't understand how it being reviewed stops you from losing it. I'm so confused 😕

[@Arnau975]

@@Cyba_IT It will bring attention and probably the guys at r/ErgoMechKeyboards will do something about it to build the keyboard

[@skylark6167]

@@Cyba_IT They said REVIVED, as in r/mk nerds are building new ones so this concept will be available outside of the second hand market.

[@CaptainAnimal1982]

Any chance you can post a video?

[@Worldlyy]

Surprised they didn't mention the Charachorder. It uses multiple inputs (like a chord) to generate entire words instead of every letter individually. I think LTT should check it out. Looks like they are far faster than this thing.

[@LocusNevernight]

Stenography.

[@scumfisher718]

My experience with the Charachorder has not been great. The hand position is not very comfortable for long periods, and the chord detection is extremely finicky and unreliable. I also find that the finger movements you need to make to trigger the switches are a lot less natural than the DataHand. The theory behind the Charachorder is really good (hence why I bought one); the execution not quite there yet in my opinion.

[@cplconker]

It would be cool to see LTT check out something like the Ginny board. It uses a chorded layout called ASETNIOP but doesn't generate whole words like a stenography board.

[@philmaggiacomo]

Is that like the Twiddler?

[@sullivan3503]

Chording is not really a board level concern. Theoretically, any NKRO keyboard can be made into a chorded keyboard with software.

[@megan_alnico]

I want one for my left hand when playing FPSs. Just map WA to the up/down on the middle finger and SD to the pointer and index finger. I think it would be pretty cool and not a bad learning curve because there are no layers nessesary.

[@vii-reaper8795]

check out the azeron keypad

[@jordevorstenbosch]

@@vii-reaper8795 I have one for MMOs, but wouldn't recommend it for FPSes that require ad-ing. Like counterstrike, stick movement doesn't lend itself for that at all.

[@vii-reaper8795]

@@jordevorstenbosch Yeah I wouldn't suggest it either but some like replacing they keyboard with it and having a mouse in their right hand.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

Honestly, I could see this being a really good keyboard for Japanese speakers. They have a writing system based on syllables. So for example, あ is just A, ち is Chi, く is Ku, and so on. These syllables are often grouped by what vowel they have, and what consonant they have. With some exceptions, every consonant in the language has five characters, one for each vowel A, E, I, O, U. So similar to old flip phone texting, they could use the middle press to be the A ending to that consonant, and each of the directions to be the other four.

[@daleatkin8927]

Tried on of these back in the day. Thought about getting it second hand. I figured I could deal with the learning curve. I couldn’t deal with (1) not having anyone else able to use my computer, (2) possible difficulty using another computer once I got used to it.

[@misatzu]

breaking news: you can attach two keyboards to the same computer

[@pyrosrockthisworld]

lol, as someone that can only touch type in dvorak. I feel your points, though its hilarious when people use your computer!

[@daleatkin8927]

@@misatzu not back then you couldn’t….

[@misatzu]

@@daleatkin8927 Uuh, if that was the case I wouldn't have told you. Maybe when someone informs you about something, you should rather inform youself before obstinately replying "nO yOu cOuLd NoT" about the exact thing they _could _*_and_*_ did_ "back then" %}

[@daleatkin8927]

@@misatzu back when I’m talking about, USB keyboards (hell even USB) were not regularly/routinely a thing. (I’m sure somewhere you might be able to find someone who would sell you one, but it was pretty rare). PS/2 interface was the defacto standard. I’ve never known anyone to have hooked up 2 PS/2 keyboards to a single PC, and if it was possible, the connectors to do so were not readily available.

[@GameRaveTV]

This looks like something right out of Ghost in the Shell.

[@angelarch5352]

Except that the type-bots in Ghost in the Shell had 100 retractable fingers... and used regular key type keyboards.

[@GameRaveTV]

@@angelarch5352 *pushes your glasses up for you

[@unclerubo]

Send this to Clint from LGR, I want to see his take in an Oddware episode :)

[@aussiebloke609]

Hell yes, he loves strange computer stuff from the '90s. :-D

[@goqwertygo]

YES! Exactly my thought!😃

[@daPabOu]

@@aussiebloke609 He also loves keyboards!

[@emperio6743]

Love the concept of ergo keyboards, I feel like each model is situational to each individual user, it would be great if they were more modular. Part of the reason I bought a 3d printer so I can start making my own ergo designs lol

[@SangoProductions213]

On the topic of the Egrodox EZ, I've been using it for around 4 years now, and I love it. No other keyboard even compares. Especially considering that a tornado ripped through the home, and utterly anihilated most of the rest of the computer (and my neck). The only parts of my computer that survived the impact and the nearly week of rain and other exposure to the elements (before I could get out and fetch the pieces), were the UPS, which took shelter under paneling, and the ErgoDox EZ, which I found in 3 pieces, scattered across the field. The left keyboard, right keyboard, and connector cable for both of them. Didn't find the cable to connect to the actual computer though. But then I contacted the company I bought it from, and they sent over a replacement cable for free, and... that was 2 years ago. Going on 3. And every time I think the keys are going out, it was simply an issue of removing the keycaps and actually cleaning the underside. I simply cannot praise this keyboard enough. It's one hell of a beast.

[@Arnau975]

Yesterday i drop my water over my EZ and after the enclosure (and the keycaps, it was already time anyway) and letting it dry for some hours it was having a short on the thumb cluster. Disassembling it and cleaning the three drops of water causing the short on the back of the pcb was completely painless.

[@SangoProductions213]

@@Arnau975 nice

[@sir.niklas2090]

"Can't put a price on health" Background: "Except in the states!" KILLED ME!

[@eadinize3045]

This looks like a good left hand gaming dedicated keyboard.

[@amadouderza5824]

Look up the azeron

[@casforelda]

Go ahead and look up Azeron, and you can get a modern variant meant for gaming.

[@Mormielo]

I have an Azeron and I think this layout could be even better (if you add an analog pad). I am curious to see if anybody adapts the open source 3d printable version to be a gaming keypad.

[@danielhiberg8551]

"You can`t put a price on health!" "Exept in the states"

[@Ra-Hul-K]

well at least you get to put a price tag on your health.. in other parts of the world people ruin their health working for peanuts 😂😓

[@danielhiberg8551]

@@Ra-Hul-K We still have insurance...? Usually paid for by the company you work for.

[@johntitor6222]

honestly, my main concern would be the mouse so if one of these pads could be set as the mouse with the clicker for the thumb I could see this being a really cool alternative to the traditional keyboard mouse

[@ronin1837]

I would totally try... the LEFT hand piece for gaming, in a game where can you use a lot of macro, like World of Warcraft and such... but NEVER use it for typing

[@jantube358]

5:53 This Ben really impressed me typing on his lalboard.

[@misapheonix]

" You can't buy this' *Azeron Keypad exists and looks way better*

[@user-ou9nh2ic7o]

Own one, love it. Makes Warframe easy to navigate...

[@Hawkinson88]

The cyborg model looks even better than the original.

[@misapheonix]

That's right guys, once you go keypad, you never go back to keyboard huh >:D

[@fredwupkensoppel8949]

The Azeron Keypad is a macro pad, not something that's made to be typed on. Sure you could make a keyboard out of two of those with some scripting in Linux, but I don't think it would be comparable to a dedicated keyboard-thingy.

[@CZiNTrPT]

@@user-ou9nh2ic7o can you use 2 azeron for example typing to replace keyboard fully? I almost never use my mouse anyways, I think I could live with just the thumbstick

[@runneypo]

I want to learn how to type using one of these just because it looks cool. I am a keyboard enthusiast and type in 4 keyboard layouts already, (qwerty, dvorak, colemak, workman) all at 100wpm

[@mongarcia9151]

Imagine if this keyboard was the main thing back then, we'd then think that qwerty would be the weird alternative

[@StarkRG]

If everyone suddenly forgot how to type and all keyboards and information about keyboards completely disappeared and we had to re-invent keyboards from scratch, we absolutely, definitely would not use QWERTY. In fact, we might invent something like in the video. Having keys spread out like they are on standard keyboards was originally because the keys needed a lot of room to move. With the technology available today, keys barely need to move at all.

[@finnk1289]

7:00 that's why I'm building an ergonomic mech keyboard like the ergodox - I don't even have RSI yet, I just think they're cool

[@lxquid.ocelot]

idk abt y’all but 0:10 is pure wallpaper material

[@Mason-gz3tl]

Keyboards: I like 'em clicky and tactile-you know, like blind women with loose dentures.

[@Kyharra]

That's their echolocation

[@mrlitbottoms6968]

@@Kyharra im going to hell for laughing at this

[@stevejones69420]

@@mrlitbottoms6968 same

[@Kyharra]

@@mrlitbottoms6968 lmaoo

[@mfaizsyahmi]

@@Kyharra You're actually kinda right! Joe Hansen (It's Okay To Be Smart) made a video on it!

[@TheMorbidHobo]

I guess I know where Azeron got their idea from-- definitely prefer the Azeron though.

[@mannmanuel7762]

My thought as well 😂 Do you have one? I am struggling if I should get one

[@TheMorbidHobo]

@@mannmanuel7762 I do not.

[@mannmanuel7762]

@@TheMorbidHobo damn...

[@bushidobrown9857]

"why would you mount it on the side of your chai-" **Tries that motion** Say less I'm there

[@ivinitmittal]

6:14 Even I don't expect him to reply with that dp😂😂😂

[@miha493]

1:54 You can check how ergonomic his hands position. Even when he can lay hands down comfortably, without bending wrists, he is literally tilted the entire structure in the opposite direction.

[@Rhynri]

The fact he was having accidental typing essentially proved it wasn’t adjusted correctly. When it is, that doesn’t happen because your resting hand position clears all the switches.

[@alexs6986]

I love the dark themed intro!!

[@sakurajin_noa]

This thing looks like the ideal keyboard to game on, especially for games like lol where you need a ton of keys to be used with one hand and can remap every function to whatever key you like.

[@prettyintense45]

But would it still be better than that moon lander they showed at the end? I have one of those and legitimately would not recommend it to just about anyone. However if you can spend a couple weeks learning the software, the layout, and being split. It’s far and away the most flexible keyboard I have ever used. Each half has like 7 macro buttons that can be programmed to do any sort of crazy nonsense. Along with that you can program each key to do any other thing with single, double, or long presses. If you were really wanting to make an ultimate gamer keyboard with macros galore, why not something much more standard?

[@sakurajin_noa]

@@prettyintense45 because this keyboard layout removes the need to reposition your fingers. That way you can do certain things by moving your finger in one of five directions without needing to reposition them later on. This also allows you can reach more buttons more easily and your fingers do not 'block' each other. This might not be viable for every game but for lol a layout like this can be a huge advantage. I actually want to look into building the Foss keyboard they mentioned since that looks like a cool project. But I would not use this for typing at all.

[@commandershepard5878]

Azeron.

[@wpyoga]

Imagine using these and then falling asleep. When you wake up, your hands are bolted to the keyboard, then forced to combat trolls online. Plot of Keyboard Akimbo.

[@brainstormsurge154]

If you want something that's already finished check out the Azeron. Looks pretty cool although if you want one for both hands it will be a little pricey.

[@urabus986]

Not pricey as this thing.

[@FeartheKlown]

I worked with a guy who had one of these! He swore by this keyboard, he had carple tunnel from typing and playing video games, he actually wore wrist braces for awhile because of the pain. His fingers looked psychotic while he was typing on it, but he could type wicked fast, well over 100 wpm. It's been over 10 years since I saw him, so I can't ask any more questions, but it was so unique that it always stuck out in my memory.

[@mohamedbenothman4597]

I'm so glad James is appearing on a lot of vids lately, I just like him so much

[@StayMadNobodycares]

He's a handsome warlock.

[@victorlevy225]

I've been using Datahand for 20 years and it saved my career. I wish they could have found someone like me to interview instead of dwelling on the learning curve. The benefit for me is not saving motion but saving impact, which on a normal keyboard is always down and eventually nearly destroyed my fingers for typing.

[@charlesjmouse]

Hmm, I actually didn't know about this rather kludgy take in the chorded keyboard. The version I remember best was the Microwriter PDA and then keyboard from 1983 - a lot of people wanted one ...until they saw the price! Chorded keyboards go back to the 60's of course - there really is nothing new.

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

If I understand it correctly, this is not chorded as most typing does not involve pressing more than one key. More like having five keys wrapped around each fingertip so they are closer.

[@Drakkan12]

Colton saying "nice" in the intro is the best part of this video for me

[@rushthezeppelin]

I suddenly remembered this video two months later because of the intro lol

[@808Wood]

I absolutely designed a set of mice like this in a note book years ago ! I have wanted a 2 mouse / keypad set up for EVER

[@thembo]

When I switched to a split 64 from a standard 60% my speed dropped but my accuracy skyrocketed

[@jasdanvm3845]

So this is where the Azeron Keypad took inspiration from! Why they didn't mentioned it in the video? It's something you can buy!

[@Griffin12536]

Can't wait for my Cyborg to ship!

[@static-san]

I bet you guys would love the FrogPad: a one-handed keyboard. The learning curve was not quite as steep or long as for the DataHand but there still was one. They also struggled to get market share. Unfortunately they were the victim of fraud and the company died, though the founder still wants the idea to succeed. Yes, I have one, and no I'm not sending it to you. I still use it occasionally.

[@watsonga050300]

Immediately thought of that fucking moron from The Verge "A core I-7 hexacore cpu. Yes, we have one." "Yes, I have one, and no I'm not sending it to you" Coulda just said something like "Couldn't bear to part with mine though." Or literally anything else.

[@rubensitoyt]

why not azeron keypad really similar but is only on one hand so you can use the mouse

I love when Linus is on vacation.

@12FPS because lately I don't like his videos that much, I can feel that if wasn't written by him and his not interested in the topic often. But this isn't an issue when the writer hosts the video, and you can feel it that he spent the time with the device.

[@JohnSmith-uu5ov]

Although I can always appreciate people coming up with with new ways of doing things, I doubt that the investors saw it this way lol

[@Ardyvee]

I'd love you guys to look into one-handed keyboards like ARTESYIO and so on!

[@Shadowmaster625]

Your search - ARTESYIO keyboard - did not match any documents

[@TheGamingDroid9000]

makes me think of the guys who produced a chording keyboard, but also produced a similar 2 hand system with little stick switches under every finger with 4 direction letter selection to make chords

[@DominikJaniec]

7:15 I fully agree! I've bought ErgoDox-ish keyboard and loaded the BEAKL15 layout to type more efficiently, and the learning curve was steep as hell. now since beginning of 12021, I can type with 10 fingers blindly, and I love it - also *balance* around thumbs with keys like Enter, Delete, or Backspace heavily reduced pain in my arms. I also have a layer with mouse like *wasd* scheme, and I would hate to use a single finger to move the cursor around - maybe, a dell-like joystick would be ok for me. nonetheless, I much prefer Vim-ish navigation schemas in browser or in my daily work tools, so I don't use that feature much.

[@goffe2282]

I've been using Kinesis Ergo keyboards for a long time. I cry everytime I have to use something else (like my laptop constantly). Just the fact that my thumbs can be used for more things than pressing space is a god send. Also, learn Dvorak people. It took me a month to switch. But even when I sat there typing one letter at a time slowly I felt how my hands were not moving as much as they used to. There is no reason to stick to a layout that designed to make you type slowly so that the hammers on your type writer don't jam. You will not be quicker, but you will type more comfortably, and having non-Dvorak people try to use your computer never gets old.

[@amadouderza5824]

Same. Using a kinesis advantage in dvorak. Wished I learned colemak though, considering switching but it would be like my fifth layout

[@rolerroleris533]

I wanted to try dvorak since i first heard about it, but the main problem for me would be games. From simply being unable to remap to hardcoded tutorial info with specific keys, it's a pain in the ass to deal with. But yeah, if most companies just switched the default to dvorak i bet it would take at most a few years for people to learn it and just accept it, but as if that would ever happen.

[@amadouderza5824]

@@rolerroleris533 I use qwerty for gaming and switch to dvorak for work. I use different keyboards for that so the brain switch is seemless

[@goffe2282]

@@rolerroleris533 games may require remapping and occasionally that you switch to QWERTY if they can't be remapped, butt this is really a non-issue. Dvorak is good for touch typing. We don't do that much in game except for chats.

[@ragingrat7670]

I'd really like to see how good or bad it is for playing games on. I'd prefer to see a comparison between some who plays on keyboard only, controllers only, mostly keyboard, and mostly controllers. And see first if it's any good at playing games, but also see who of these groups have an easier time adapting to the new layout.

[@mannmanuel7762]

There's a company called azeron selling them in an updated version for gaming

[@derptyderp5287]

"Here's something you can buy... Seasonic!" Laughing because I bought a Corsair PSU after several months of Seasonic being out of stock.

[@420jessw]

Corsair power supplies are made by Seasonic so in the end you bought a Seasonic.

[@xxcr4ckzzxx840]

@@420jessw Not all of them.

[@DKGaming4Life]

It reminds me of the Azeron gaming keypad and that one you can actually buy.

[@MalevolentBeak]

1:40 This guy has carpal tunnel muscles, apparently. I didn't expect LTT to hire non-humans.

[@GabrielWB]

Honestly a shame that the "white body, black labels, white text, colored icons" look died out. (Not sure if it has an official name) I love it for some weird reason.

[@Dr_Hax]

maybe it will come back some day

[@pyro1324]

@@Dr_Hax That's usually how design goes, there's been a resurgence of transparent tech recently so we're at least back in the early 2000s now.

[@Votterbin]

I'm scared of anyone who manages to beat Ultra Nightmare with this keyboard.

[@DyingBlood42]

@sbcontt YT Doom Eternal requires a bit more than that.

[@jippikayjee412]

What is that? Some game?

[@dhoome1234ify]

"Rhythm" players: Wow! It's useful! "Rhythm" experts: Wow! I'm already bored!

[@FBHSswimmer2006]

I remember seeing this on an episode of Fresh Gear on TechTV in 2002. They did a segment on ergonomic keyboards and mice with a several different models.

[@beartube93]

@7:08 James is literally the KeyMouse's latest versions. Would be cool to rereview the updated versions.

[@damienr55]

Incredible intro! Also I could see this being huge for MMO's or other large hotkey layout games

[@Black3ternity]

Still waiting for the Matrix-Style direct neuron link like portrayed in the "Shadowrun" universe. Hook up to your device and don't use your fingers AT ALL. Problem solved. No weird muscle, joint or bone pain.

[@grn1]

Neuralink

[@mini-_]

Aliens made this keyboard... So I guess you could say it's Alienware?!

[@Blackoutss]

😳

[@lordmage]

this looks like a Dell product thats for sure

[@cyanophage4351]

I built my own ergo keyboard last year and switched to it full time. As it was so different from a normal keyboard typing qwerty was difficult so it was the perfect time to learn a better layout. I don't regret it and it's so comfortable compared with a normal keyboard

[@jack-yn1wt]

I have been obsessed with the datahand for years, but information on the internet is... scarce. This video is huge for me. I can actually see someone holding it and using it clearly. Thanks :)

[@Rhynri]

I have one if you have any questions or want any pictures of anything.

[@jack-yn1wt]

@@Rhynri really? I guess my biggest question is how you got your hands on one 😅

[@fabiopinna]

I remember seeing this keyboard (or a variant of it) in use by people with degenerative arthritis in their hands - the modules were mounted vertically so that the hands were facing each other, and supposedly the position and minimum amount of travel were a boon for this one guy with the condition. I always wanted one myself.

[@gonecoastal4]

Just another example of Big QWERTY eliminating competition.

[@nesyboi9421]

Qwerty is just easy to learn I guess.

[@tazgamerplays]

12 seconds after upload and there was already 12 views.

[@jeetakshluhaniwal9160]

Normal keyboard: words per minute. Alien keyboard: minutes per word.

[@WatchMePopOff]

I want this. It makes so much sense. Same arrangement , less travel. I hope someone picks this up again

[@Griffin12536]

For use as keyboard or gaming? Azeron is pretty pricely for just one hand but it can be used two handed.

[@khaled_2249]

I think giving this to a kid for their first keyboard to grow while using them would unlock the ultimate keyboard warrior 🤣

[@hyperionphoenix6106]

So Linus, when are we getting Maddison in more videos

[@Mr.DJones]

"Except in the States". How true! And so sad. Big business owns America.

[@thetalesofdaneandco]

That one hit me pretty hard.

[@rallyfeind]

I don't know...everything I ever get from any government is from the lowest bidder and is obviously such. People think they want US to do social health until they start getting raw cotton balls and duck tape bandaids.

[@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart]

@@rallyfeind "The government doesn't care about the people because it serves our financial aristocracy" "But why do you want the government to care about people? Our government doesn't care about people!" That is... the problem that they've described? What's with yanks and being dense.

[@rallyfeind]

@@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart The point was to clarify that we don't want to be just like you only worse at it...because that is also what I was acknowledging about the outcome in the US. It wouldn't be like anyone's good examples of universal healthcare and trust me on this I am in the VA system for veterans. I already live in what the US version is and no it is not okay. Perhaps my joke was too subtle or it was too blunt but eitherway it clearly missed. Oh well I will go back to waiting over a year for a claim to get processed while you come up with a response that I promise will get back before I even have an appointment.

[@ComputerWhiz_]

Honestly, I can't even imagine trying to learn any ergonomic keyboard, let alone THIS keyboard. Changing to an ergonomic mouse was a big enough learning curve for me.

[@softxpandguest708]

Username does not check out? That being said, I just bought a ZSA Moonlander. If you're willing to take the time to set up a profile that makes sense for you (which is super easy), you can get back up to speed rather quickly. I was hitting 75wpm copying excerpts from books, punctuation included and fixing all errors, within a couple of days, and I'm back up to 90 after a month. Why does if matter? Because I do a *lot* of writing, and the split keyboard has made my shoulders hurt less. (Just don't buy a Kinesis. Their build quality and customer support are a joke.)

[@HandleToBeDetermined]

Not sure if it's mentioned before, but the expensive price tag is pretty standard for not-so-popular input devices. The haptic pen costs upward of 13k per unit.

[@BetteBalterZen]

sup

[@gingeralef1]

sup

[@hughdavies1177]

the sky

[@rileyroyse4366]

Sup

[@aditjindal]

cmon man

[@AlphaMeep]

HE WAS FIRST

[@A.Achorn]

"Can't put a price on health." "Except in the states" Bazinga! Idk what was better sneaking that in or his sad agreement!