Battle Of The Budget Samplers: Sonicware Smpltrek vs Teenage Engineering EP-133 KO-II

[@MrCosmicVictory]

really really good breakdown comparison. you have deeper points that goes into the workflow vs just specs. Much appreciated 👍🏼

[@yuriwongmusic]

thanks for letting me know - i definitely prefer to focus on the practical musicmaking side of things

[@devinsmith7675]

Instant click as soon as i saw you were talking about these two devices (im thinking about buying one of them soon) You do amazing work! Thanks for this!

[@yuriwongmusic]

You're welcome! I hope it helps you make your decision. Either way, it'll be a fun journey learning and making music with either one

[@daaveed1323]

Great video. I already have the KO II and had an eye on the new sampltrek. This is very informative.

[@mixalisstathis274]

I admire your work, even the reviews are a class of their own.

[@yuriwongmusic]

Thanks!!

[@Jack655321]

I own the KO2 and I love it, I use it mostly as a drum line creator for my demo's, really intuitive piece of gear.

[@SeanKearney]

Thank you, Yuri. I always appreciate your perspective.

[@yuriwongmusic]

Sure thing Sean!

[@ShamazWorldBass]

Love seeing the SmplTrek getting some light! Great commentary

[@yuriwongmusic]

yeah, it's underrated with a lot of potential for AMAZING things WITH some firmware updates

[@spacekid5609]

Would you mind emailing them about the Sequencer? I asked them to make it more like Liven series, but haven't got a response. You have a lot of followers, maybe they'll listen to you 😂😂

[@dracul74]

Enjoyed! Subbed

[@jello-tarzan]

Excellent, thank you !

[@joelfluri8110]

Great video! Thanks👍

[@yuriwongmusic]

You're welcome!

[@Farold_Haltermeyer]

Brilliant. I remember sitting down and writing myself a sort of manifesto on HOW I made music, and what I felt made that a more creative and less technical time. The modern focus on technical specs and menus is incredibly counter to that. I sold a lot of gear that month :)

[@yuriwongmusic]

Thats an awesome thing to do - us musicmakers could benefit from that exercise. It's all about where you can find your flow!

[@ChrisLodyMusic]

Thanks very much for making this, you are undoubtedly the KZbin SmplTrek master 😁👌 I'd be very interesting to hear what you think about the Lofi-12 XT if you get your hands on one, it's ready at the end of April. It's got a much more immediate workflow and is more focused on sound design than the SmplTrek. Just depends if you like the lofi sound or not 😄

[@spacekid5609]

Hey Chris, I understand that, in terms of sound design, Lofi 12XT has a more immediate workflow than SmplTrek. But why make the sequencer/note editing (as Yuri mentions) on SmplTrek so tedious? Starsky Carr also noted this in his review. Other comments as well (even here). I emailed Sonicware's support on their page, asking them to make the sequencer more like Livens (at least a selectable option from the menu). Hopefully, they'll listen. It would be great if you passed the word as well. P.S. looking forward to your future SmplTrek content Cheers

[@yuriwongmusic]

Sure thing Chris. Thanks for the guides you made on the SmplTrek too - I did watch them in the early days. Unfortunately I didn't back the Lofi-12 XT, and personally I'm a fan of lofi sounds, so that sounds intresting.

[@ChrisLodyMusic]

​@@yuriwongmusic In that case then I'm sure you'll be interested. I'm biased obviously, but it's workflow is a lot more fun. I'll have a full tutorial up on May the 1st and Bo Beats is making something too. It may be worth reaching out to Sonicware directly if you haven't already

[@ChrisLodyMusic]

​​​@@spacekid5609Thanks for emailing them, anything that can help in terms of user feedback and feature suggestions is a great help to them. You may be pleased to know the Lofi-12 XT doesn't use a piano roll at all, it's entirely done with the step buttons but still has micro timing. The data for individual steps can be accessed and deep edited but the overall workflow is most similar to the Liven series

[@spacekid5609]

Thanks for the response, Chris. If their idea of making the SmplTrek sequencer clumsy is to cross-sell Lofi 12XT, then they are doing it wrong. First, let them make the product I already bought usable for me. Again, I get the different approach to sound design, but the sequencer? No, I don't get it. Since Lofi 12XT has one type of track, the focus could be on sound: LFOs, effect per track, pitch env, etc. but I see no reason to make note editing so counterintuitive on the SmplTrek. Cheers

[@miroslavjonas]

Thank you for this review. I feel like there is not enough love for Smpltrek out there. Since you use Circuit Tracks for your DAWless setups, I'm interested to hear where it sits for you as a idea/sketching device compared to the two above. Which one would you take on a long flight to sketch the ideas on?

[@johnwright5126]

Thank you for this! But, now I want a Smpltrek just so I can get that skin

[@DJCJ999]

I liked listening to your view point Yuri.. it’s a fair point. I ordered a KO2 on release day and I’m embarrassed to say it’s still sitting in the box (I did check it didn’t suffer the fader issue).. I know I will take it out one day but I have been focusing on Abelton.

[@yuriwongmusic]

i still have gear i haven't yet put my focus on too lol

[@littlehopeleft]

Smpltrek all the way baby. I was stunned the first moment I laid my eyes on Ko2 from the design perspective but then I learned more and more about the work flow and the features and the magic quickly dissipated. Currently can't wait till my Woovebox comes up from the customs so I can have some truly "next-gen" Pocket operator.

[@DavidPortera]

As a committed Yuriwongian, I find this video very helpful and full of useful information which has been presented in a very articulate way. Thank you.

[@yuriwongmusic]

And so it shall be!

[@iwanttocomplain]

The Ko2 storage is more like ram than solid state storage. They do this because the sounds are manipulated in various ways that wouldn't be possible reading directly from an sd card. So the memory is more expensive than sd card memory.

[@iwanttocomplain]

If you don't mind a low fi sound you can record at double speed or either slow down the sample by half to extend your play time from the memory and the anti aliasing is pretty good too.

[@Beatboxing]

I have the Smpltrek and just never really felt like it had a lot of fun factor to it, FX feel rather stale/generic. I got the SP404 MK2 and have done a lot more on that as of late rather than the Smpltrek. I'm definitely considering the LOFI-12 XT to use alongside the SP404, will probably sell the Smpltrek. As you mentioned, it does seem the Smpltrek is more suitable for recording instruments and layering them for a track rather than being a beatmaking device.

[@johndough4338]

Can someone please let me know if the smpltrek has mute groups on it? Please respond someone, and thank you

[@ILLUDIUM_Q_36]

Definitely agree with a lot of your points. I have both as well and get very annoyed by both for many of the reasons you spoke on. I do feel that the Smpltrek is a lot more durable than the EP-133. Which makes it more portable in that aspect. I just wish I could get the 16 levels (15 levels in this case) on the Sampltrak without using one of the tracks. And the fact that I'm locked into one tempo per project for all sequences. That goes for the EP-133 as well but navigation between projects is much easier. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@yuriwongmusic]

In terms of durability, for sure the SmplTrek feels so much better built. I did get a crappy fader on the KO2 and I semi-fixed it myself.

[@madflash]

So far I would say the KO2 has been great as a one-shot sample drum machine, though I have been playing into empty pads with a midi keyboard and noticed how much of the expressions that it records. I then use the midi out to control a synth like the Pro-vs-mini or my microfreak. I feel like the KO2 is designed around a dawless hybrid modus operandi where as the smpltrk is (to me) an extension of Ableton. (I know, roast me)

[@yuriwongmusic]

Interesting take, depending on the method you find best making music. I do agree that the KO2 is actually a pretty dang good live MIDI sequencer that people don't seem to notice

[@lyh1]

I have the SmplTrek and I like the way it can step record with the number pad. Other than the Yamaha QY I think SmplTrek is the best compact sequencer at the moment.

[@yuriwongmusic]

It's interesting how the QY, being such a dated device, can still be a firm favourite for sequencing, which means there's still a bit of a gap in current sequencers vs those sequencers of old. I do wish that the SmplTrek could record incoming midi straight to the corresponding tracks in the Home screen - that would make it an amazing sequencer. But sadly I doubt that'll ever happen :( Never say never though

[@lyh1]

@@yuriwongmusic The QY is the only small sequencer that have 16 track and sysex sequencing and dont break your bank account, the next thing I can find is the Pyramid, the price is not on the same level.

[@iansharkeymr]

I have a SmplTrek, an OP-1, and a WooveBox. Each has their strengths; I find the SmplTrek a great almost-DAW, but there are some frustrating edges around sample import and sound design. I wish the SmplTrek had a synth engine available, as I find that’s what I reach for when making music.

[@yuriwongmusic]

I totally get you on the synth engine for the smpltrek - oh how i wish it were possible! The Woovebox is an interesting candidate for a budget sampling groovebox. I've yet to try it out - how's the polyphony using the synths? I can't find solid documentation on the limits so it's tricky to say if it'll work well or not. Is the workflow good?

[@iansharkeymr]

@@yuriwongmusic polyphony is great, there are two ways of getting a track off device: 1) either record line out, which will be limited by DSP resources, but there are options to handle spectral quality, or 2) render the track via the Wooveconnect site, which will create a .wav file with no limits. I’m a big fan of GalacticTapes’ work, they have (at least) one album fully done on Woovebox. I think even the mix and master was done on device. I’ve got a few Woovebox tracks on KZbin myself, but they are early works :)

[@iansharkeymr]

(KZbin ate my previous reply 😠) The polyphony is great, the device does some resource reduction when rendering audio on device, or one can render the song via WooveConnect for full polyphony. Workflow is great, it’s like a grown up pocket operator.

[@yuriwongmusic]

@@iansharkeymr Great, thanks for the info! That sounds appealing actually.... (uh oh)

[@woovebox]

@@yuriwongmusic Happy to send one your way if you'd like to have a play! For sampling on the Woovebox (like everything), you are very much encouraged to look at things through a 90s producer lens; do more with less. Instead of using 16-bar pre-fabbed drumloops, cut your own breaks from a short snippet. Instead of multiple pre-baked samples of the same thing, use sound design and the real-time AKAI S950/S1000-ish time stretching & pitch shifting. Record a short chant through the vocoder, synthesize and/or program your drums, etc. What you get in return is definitely something more organic/interesting, flexible and unique sounding. That's all to say that if you're a modern "sample-all-the-things!" / grab-it-from-Splice person, the Woovebox' paltry 62s of sampling time is going to require a pretty big shift in thinking, which you may find either liberating or frustrating. To be clear, it's not necessarily *more* work, just *different* work.

[@MrDsilvia]

I have a smpltrek, I've seen the potential but have yet to jive with the work flow. It does not foster quick beat making, but the editing abilities keep me pushing on.

[@yuriwongmusic]

yeah, it's all pretty personal and there's no perfect one - i WISH there were though XD

[@manishkumar73]

❤

[@yuriwongmusic]

Hearts all round

[@manishkumar73]

@@yuriwongmusic always for you.. ❤️

[@youaintseenmeok]

Maschine

[@yuriwongmusic]

Interesting. Better?

[@youaintseenmeok]

@@yuriwongmusic Amazing for sampling Mk3 or the Plus , would love to see you work your magic on it

[@GullySyde28]

Im looking into the ep133 just more as a drum machine in my small set up. Anyone else use the EP this way. Great channel instant sub from me 🎉

[@theturnaround7290]

I like them both. SmplTrek for more complex projects and the KO2 for quick and dirty goodness.

[@yuriwongmusic]

yeah, both have their place in making the music that you want

[@DetroitMicroSound]

I ended up going the 1010music Blackbox route. 😁

[@yuriwongmusic]

I have that too, but it's got it down quirks that I couldn't quite find myself flowing with

[@AnalogAbyss-ui6td]

@@yuriwongmusic How about a video about the blackbox?

[@cresshead]

KO2 - £269 sp-404mkii - £411 SmplTrek - £439

[@mikoajczeski1272]

Smpltrek may have been a great sampler, but its architecture was probably created by people not very familiar with samplers. The ease of use of the device was completely ignored. Creation is tedious, the workflow is not fast, spontaneous with the possibility of quickly trying different approaches to a specific sample, and all the joy of having fun disappears somewhere. The updates have improved a lot, but they still haven't improved the speed of work. I hope that there will be another update that will improve the workflow, at least one of those that will be implemented in Lofi 12XT.

[@spacekid5609]

Couldn't agree more! I just sent them email about the sequencer being non-intuitive.. I asked them to make it more like Liven series. Hopefully they will listen. As Chris Lody said: they consider user feedback. Let's see

[@yuriwongmusic]

Yeah, I totally agree on the architecture - i think a combination of interface design knowledge, musical aptitude and engineering skills are needed to make something work really well and intuitively. I'm always looking for something that can get ideas down quickly while maintaining creative options for manipulation. I have an Octatrack, and it's amazingly powerful, but the speed of which I make things on it is painfully slow...

[@yuriwongmusic]

@@spacekid5609 Let's see. fingers crossed but hopes subdued.

[@RaquelFoster]

The KO2 is a terrible sampler in a lot of ways. But it's great for sequencing loops and controlling external gear. You can assign each of the 4x 12 pads to whatever channel you want, and you get 99 patterns per group, and it's polyphonic. I'd rather have a KO2 than a Beatstep Pro. You can also get a used Polyend Play for under $400, and that's dramatically better in several ways. But the KO2 can record polyphonic patterns from an external keyboard. The tracks on the Play are monophonic. It has a chord mode, but can't record chords on a single track.

[@yuriwongmusic]

You're right about it being a pretty great polyphonic sequencer for external gear. The one thing that would make it an EXCELLENT one is a pretty tiny change - make it such that the pad doesn't play a note when it's selected, if a midi channel is assigned. That stops it from playing a note on the external hardware when you select it. if TE fixes that, it may well be one of the best live MIDI sequencers out there!

[@C0llinsW0rth.]

idk why their memory storage game for TE is so weak

[@yuriwongmusic]

so terribly weak ... sigh

[@hymefly]

I find the KOii extremely cheaply made. To me, it’s more of a toy. A beginner’s tool, at best.

[@GullySyde28]

Is ok combined with other gear? Or do you use it stand alone

[@axioms22]

Teenage Engineering has really fallen off in terms of quality and focus. Most of their new product is overpriced garbage. Imagine creating one good synth and then pivoting to sell shit like wooden car toys, cheap metal tables and hoodies at 400% markup.

[@yuriwongmusic]

TE is a strange one - I don't have any relationship with them so I won't know theier inner workings, but it seems like they're more interesting in experimenting with ideas that actually refining them to the point of perfection. Fair enough, everybody deserves to make what they want. I do wish they had that extra Korg-iness , or more like Tatsuya-ness haha, to make something that has a great workflow yet creatively stimulating.