Why Steel Is Real!

[@briank4134]

I'm a mechanical engineer who has been enamored with steel frames for a long time. I have owned, I think, 33 bikes now, some steel, most aluminum, 1 carbon fiber, and 1 titanium. As far as pure ride quality goes, I'll always pick one of the heat-treated steel frames, which started becoming prevalent in the late 90s. I couldn't figure out exactly why I liked them so much until I very recently got my first titanium bike. It's lighter and more rust/corrosion resistant than my steel bikes, so why didn't I like it as much as I should? After looking at the material properties, I realized that #1 steel is the most dense in weight/volume, but it's also the strongest in terms of yield strength and ultimate strength, and the stiffest when it comes to Young's Modulus. So, especially when it comes to the newer heat-treated steels like 853, Spirit, and Thermlx, you end up using the most material when it comes to weight, but the least material when it comes to volume. This allows the frames to be built with thinner walls and smaller diameters and results in that reputation for springiness and compliance.

[@benbraceletspurple9108]

I agree. But steel has a rusting time limit on it. 4130 and lower chromium has about 5 years, and high chromium steel bikes have about 10 years or so.

[@djkenny1202]

@@benbraceletspurple9108 I have 30 year old Bridgestones of various Steel, still rust free. One MB-1 I bought used spent much time on RV trips in various weather, with Patina.

[@igorigorovic9608]

@@benbraceletspurple9108 i have one from peugeot bike 1970 without problem!.

[@dharmamt9221]

well thats why steel is real😊

[@bikeman123]

A guy I ride with didn't know his steel forks were seriously weakened by rust until the day they collapsed and he faceplanted his way to a&e.

[@sonymicronin]

Once I finish fully building up my NJS makino i’m going to see if I can get you to do a bike check on it. Trust me Zach, I’m almost done and it’s going to be one of the smoothest and most proper builds you have ever laid your eyes on.

[@sonymicronin]

@Bebo Nah, I’m do it just outta spite now, you’re always in this dudes comments hating on legit everything lol. Just relax and ride your bike man.

[@sonymicronin]

@Bebo Got my NJS frame in pristine condition with absolutely 0 dents and dings for less than $700 and it has better tubing than the vast majority of steel bikes ✌️ Hope hearing that makes you more pissed lol

[@sonymicronin]

@Bebo My makino has never been crashed, man you are seriously loosing it over a single comment 😂.

[@edwardallan197]

I love my old PH501 Peugeot. Built from trashed & tossed frame & fork. I have ridden salvage build steel all my life. Love em..... steel can be literally WORKED and REPAIRED with ancient techniques & skills going back thousands of years. STEEL IS REAL.

[@NujuBS]

Recently built my first fixed gear. A 40 year old Peugeot conversion with (upper)mid range components. I love the original slightly rusty look, but the frame is still in great shape. With the new components it rides buttery smooth! Steel ftw

[@robertmyers5269]

Beautiful bike. I really like this kind of video over the ASMR-style buildouts you've do a couple of lately.

[@lucastheworldis1336]

I bought a second hand steel frame for £30 a few years back and it's the best frame/bike I've ever ridden. It is incredibly light (1.8kg). Even with the thinnest tyres it rides amazingly smooth. I'm not entirely sure if it's steel or Chromoly, the walls of the tubing seem super thin and easy to dent/bend. I have no idea what the brand of this frame is as the old owner spray painted it. I've used expensive alloy, carbon and other steel track frames and nothing even comes close to this presumably mass manufactured entry level random frame. Unfortunately the rear dropouts are quite damaged due to overtightening of the rear wheel nuts so I'll have to get it fixed somehow. STEEL IS REAL.

[@SonjaTheDork]

My hi-ten gaspipe beater is so smooth on the roads of Indianapolis. Not as nimble as my alloy bikes but it's just as fun

[@lucastheworldis1336]

@@SonjaTheDork It's so odd how some frames which are so cheaply made just seem to feel perfect and better than super expensive ones. Bikes are weird.

[@SonjaTheDork]

@@lucastheworldis1336 I mean the gaspipe frame flexes more than the chassis of a light duty pickup, so I'm certain thats where a lot of the road noise and bumps get filtered.

[@iamshake7778]

Amazing bike👌 I still ride my 2010 Fuji feather (fixed)that I acquired Feb-March of 2011. when I got it I replaced the wheels both rear&front with aerospokes then rode it for almost 2 years 5 days a week 24 miles a day. Then from late 2012 i will used it everyday putting 4 miles a day all the way to present time 2022. Just last week I replaced the aerospokes with the WABI sub 15 and the crank set with the Andel pro crankset and boy! That Fuji bike feels like it was new again, I’m loving how it feels! Almost 5 pounds lighter wEighing in at 18.7 lbs. thank you for your content Zach. Peace!

[@bobblues1158]

You are telling the truth! My Kvale road bike -Reynolds- from 1976, is still the best ride I have . Chris Kvale is in Minnesota and still making custom frames in steel-track or road.

[@christopheroliver148]

Nice! Sadly, my builder, Peter Mooney, has decided to hang up the torch. 😫 There was a guy who had a gorgeous Kvale in red and white livery for sale, but Chris though it would be way too stiff for me, so I gave it a pass. I hope it's making the guy who bought it very happy.

[@chriss450]

It’s definitely because it rhymes with “real”. Lol.

[@christopherwebb3517]

Aluminum is... Goodluminum!

[@djkenny1202]

Loads of Bridgestones MB1, 2, 3, 6. All ride lovely!

[@coletrick8748]

All my bikes are vintage steel. Mid 90s Trek is what I collect.. Super cheap second hand bikes that I usually spend less than $300 to complete a build with low to mid level components. Love them and if it breaks or gets stolen no worries I can afford another.

[@edb8120]

I still ride a 50 yo Alan aluminum frame, but it does make noises. My favorite is a Katakura that is full chrome. Love the look.

[@christopheroliver148]

I should imagine the tubing for keirin bikes is not at the lower weight limits for steel. Keirin is pretty rough and tumble, and I think NJS would want to spec a very sturdy frame set for the obvious safety reasons.

[@robertwiley7744]

I’ve recently acquired an SE Bikes SE Draft with a flip-flop hub that I’m running as a fixie. Love it so far, only took about 2 hours to get comfortable on it.

[@robertwiley7744]

Forgot to say it’s steel. Also my commuter bike is a Schwinn World Sport 12 speed in Steel. I personally prefer steel myself, I love that flex when your really pushing the limits.

[@nielskjr5432]

Beautiful classic Fuji. Those fixies are illegal on public roads here in Denmark. You need to have brakes both front and rear.

[@ajacks1349]

Very interesting video thanks....however, what nobody seems to mention with respect to vintage steel bikes are the internal corrosion problems associated with them. I've checked a few high quality (used from the early 90's) Reynolds 531/Tange cromo) frames here locally in the UK, where road salts are routinely spread on the roads every winter & have found serious corrosion in all of them. From new they do have various advantages over aluminium alloys, but corrosion should be a major concern, which is not very obvious due to the rotting from within of the tubing.

[@stevekelly6544]

Hey I was curious if you've taken a look at the Ribble Urban 725s yet- triple butted Reynolds 725 single speed/fixed gear with wider tire clearances. No lugged fork, or bottle cage mount - Nice bike though, fairly priced.

[@funkadelph1852]

Nice Fuji vintage track bike! A vintage wheel set and nitto jaguar steel track stem would set it off though 🔥🔥

[@karlbe8414]

I ride a lugged steel Columbus Dancelli daily with chromed lugs, not fixed, but internal top tube brake cable, flat bars. I am not down with your TTT stem. I have found a cheap aluminum insert allows you to use a modern threadless stem and has better steering dynamics and easier position options (angles, heights and lengths). Previously Reynolds 531 frame. Single is great, but fixed, I don't need. Having ridden for a while with just a front brake, I found adding a rear brake allowed me to actually go faster , because I could stop faster, ie brake later...Dura Ace front brake! I use it for errands, so it can't look to nice.

[@wbarns15]

Steel does, in fact, exist!!

[@haemstah]

One of the japan track sites up until recently had an old light blue 015 Cherubim with guard mounts for sale. Pretty frameset. Am building up an old 753t SBDU 60x53. 1566+667gm. Looking forward to the ride feel.

[@bigwheelsturning]

I have a 1980 Univega Specialissima that I ride all the time. Made in Japan of all Tange tubing. Light and nimble. My MTB is a 1992 Costco made of Tange tubing too with tiny little TIG welds. Made In Taiwan, so it must be a Giant; and came with all Shimino Deore XT fittings.

[@christopheroliver148]

Lovely San Rensho, dude!

[@aceprater5397]

total dig that build, its beautiful. I'm running the wirebead 28c Michelin dynamic classics as well. they are goodish low $ tire.

[@ryanhurst3859]

4:21 If you make a typo on the iPhone calculator you can swipe left on the number to delete one digit (vs clearing the whole thing). So, swipe on the 25,000 and it becomes 2,500

[@christopheroliver148]

Nice crash story. Had the same thing happen this summer. I struck an inconveniently placed SUV. (City had changed parking recently on a street leading to my house, and I was pretty dehydrated and heat exhausted.) End result: broken record carbon brake lever, twisted handlebars, massively sore right deltoid for a week. No human parts broken. Main problem was finding a replacement for the no-longer-manufactured brake blade. Wound up finding one on evilbay with some finish chips which I retouched with some clear nail polish, and the bike's back on the road.

[@kuma_score7536]

I'm currently selling my Carbon Road bike which was built for speed and comfort cause my single speed/fixie steel bike is so much nicer to ride and just as fast while being almost the same weight while being a 6th of the cost, Steel is without a doubt my favorite material to have bikes made out of but there is a time and place for each material

[@jackvivek5334]

i love fixie with riser handlebar...look like street fighter fixie in town❤️❤️❤️

[@WCIIIReiniger]

9:38 I don't know about the USA but here in Germany you were doing "hit and run" and you could get a penalty of a few 100€, as far as I just read on the internet. Not cool leaving the owner of the car with a broken side mirror or scratches because you decide to ride without breakes on your bike. Edit: After watching it closely frame by frame it looks like you probably only touched the truck or only touched the cars mildly. As the truck driver does not seem to care or probably even noted your crash you still could have at least checked the other cars. I am pretty sure you were not aware of possible damage as you directly left the street and did not go back to take a quick look.

[@WCIIIReiniger]

@Bebo why do you care about ww2? According to your comment you are fine with others damaging your property for no reason. At least Germany had a reason to attack others. Zach had none :) Maybe next time you write an angry comment you should first check, if it makes any sense.

[@kimkrimson]

Only frame I ever trashed was steel. It is true that steel has some advantages over Alu/Carbon but it also bends at lower forces in a head on collision for example. Alu/Carbon are either fine or break. Steel tubes buckle and bend. Don't get me wrong I love steel bikes. I would just recommend to look at the science and not through rose glasses

[@oliver-leung]

3:16 Was the crown of the fork Dremeled to accommodate taller tire clearance?

[@Churchwardens]

I bought a steel Scatantte 'Amereicano' SS/FG bike for about $200. The bike is in goog condition and rides great. I have never heard of this brand but am not a super nerd either. Do you, as a super nerd, know anything about this company or this bike model?

[@bepsi2548]

Big fella I luv ya but it’s KAISEI not “Kasei”… hurts more than ThreeRensho 😅 great vid as always

[@rondvivre3636]

Plus 50 Fixie Points for the battle scarred, original paint. Minus 50 Fixie Points for the rusty rear axle nuts #ForShame.

[@event4216]

OK, here comes real story about steel repair ability - I watched this on YT, btw - guys on steel bikes (our hero had just built on his new bike with fancy frame) went for light touring (a week or so) and one who had a modern frame with split dropout (for belt drive) had issue with this particular solution. Screws fastening dropout together were either too small or on some other way couldn't withstand flex of frame and kept coming loose (can't say if he used any kind of Loctite there). Finally he got fed up with this (afair, it caused some issue) and they stopped at small town, found welder at car garage and he just welded it together. Not nice weld, not elegant solution but he could keep pedaling his bike instead of flying home. Later he commented manufacturer moved away from split dropout to split chainstay like other companies implement frame split for mounting belt. That guy never intended to use belt drive - he just liked very much liked particular frame (before all of this happened). Some lessons are told by this story!

[@psychoaiko666]

Having ridden steel aluminum and carbon bikes I can safely say steel is the nicest out of those three. Dunno bout titanium though 🤷 Oh I forgot, of course my steel bike is a vintage 41 year old trackbike... and the other one is a Bianchi

[@RideYourB1ke]

Steel definitely lasts way longer too.

[@newoldsteel]

100% agree with you

[@psychoaiko666]

@Bebo good to know. Now I know to not get it in my head to invest in a titanium bike.

[@psychoaiko666]

@Bebo Reynolds tubing spoiled me 😅

[@nathansharp3193]

Since you asked, I'll tell you about my brand new $50 pawn shop bike that came as a flip-flop singlespeed. It's a Giant Perigee lugged chromoly frame from the early 80s I believe. It has the old rounded Giant logo font. I gave it a few things the day I got it. A titanium stem with aluminum quill. A black Brooks saddle. An aluminum handlebar to replace a steel handlebar. Cinelli cork bar tape. I took off the rear brake and lever. The frame is in excellent condition. Minor scratches and clean blue steel inside the bottom bracket shell still. I still need to order a track cog. It's only a singlespeed at the moment. It will soon be my first fixed gear bike. Let me know if you know when the Giant logo changed. I think it was late 80s when carbon tubes and aluminum lugs were introduced as Cadex and the Giant brand wanted to modernize their image. Thanks.

[@brosettastone7520]

weight weenies influence the market too much, but for us steel riders it only helps us! less demand for ''obsolete'' steel frames means they cost less! :D

[@JasonLeiter13]

How tall are you? I have a 55cm Wabi Classic, and I think I need the 58cm.

[@christopheroliver148]

Sadly, a lot of the great American builders are dead or retired these days.

[@paullacey2999]

Thats a lovely bike.All you need and nothing you dont...

[@albertaldrich.3063]

None of those bicycles have mudguards (fenders) !!

[@leroygrayjr.2957]

Hi,.. this was a very interesting, informative, and enjoyable video. Question: could you do a video on the pros & cons of a "step through" bicycle ? I have a 12 speed Fuji ; I'm a disabled veteran who likes being able to mount my bike easily.

[@coolbugfacts1234]

There really aren't any disadvantages other than maybe a slight weight penalty, maybe water bottle cage/frame bag incompatibility, and that douchey bike snobs think they don't look cool. But I think in your situation you've well earned the right to ignore the opinions of assholes :)

[@psychoaiko666]

I don't think Zach will be doing a vid on step through bikes, since this channel is dedicated to fixed gear bikes only 🤷 Normally I am a bike snob who scuffs at bikes that aren't fixed gear, but @@coolbugfacts1234 is right in this case, and I will keep my asshole opinions to myself 😅

[@event4216]

@@psychoaiko666 I've seen some really nice FG bikes built around mixte frame. Not as low as step-through, but could be a way to go checking all boxes. And mixte is not a women specific frame!

[@psychoaiko666]

@@event4216 dunno if it can be done on a step through, I can imagine the bb being too low and having a a very high risk of having pedalstrike when cornering. Besides, step throughs are relatively heavy compared to fixed gear bikes, you'd end up with the worst of both🤷

[@event4216]

@@psychoaiko666 Agreed on BB, but that applies to many road frames converted to FG. As for weight...utility quickly takes over once your body dictates some requirements. When I was a kid I rode frame 3 sizes bigger without realizing it, now I feel diff of 1 size.

[@SAJAC.1985]

"How heavy is that bike" "About Eight Onions" "What?"

[@suhdud4646]

How do you guys deal with toe overlap?

[@event4216]

We use frames with proper toe clearance. This is why I don't fancy track frames too short for street use.

[@bonbones4890]

The wheel only hits your toes if you are going slow and turning the fork quite a bit, in which case, pull your foot back a little.? As long as your pedal isn’t hitting you are ok. Oh also, straps and BMX pedals will help. Sometimes toe cages will hit regardless of if you move your foot back

[@JMcLeodKC711]

Proud owner of a Surly Cross Check

[@event4216]

Google trends on Thursday, November 10, 2022: 1. Kasei tubing 2. Kasei tubing 3. Kasei tubing 4. Kasei tubing 5. Kasei tubing

[@anielyantra1]

I ride a '86 Specialized, Rockhopper with original wheels converted into a single speed. Still fun, Still steel.

[@isaiasprestes]

My city bike (MTB) and my road still steel and no plans to change that.

[@itscochino]

Dude I got my bike snatched from my house and had to find a real cheap bike quick. Grabbed a 83 Nishiki Custom Sport and converted to a fixed gear. It's surprisingly light

[@lucastheworldis1336]

It's always the cheap beater frames which turn out to be surprisingly amazing to ride, and for me, the expensive impulse purchase frames I so look forward to are almost always shite. Case in point my £400 BLB Viper feels like riding a block of concrete over perpetual speed bumps...

[@Lee-ic2yn]

@@lucastheworldis1336 £400 isn't expensive

[@nukeout]

It's because most people don't need carbon/aluminum, steel can take orders of magnitude more of a beating and lasts for generations without much maintenance 💪

[@RicketyRocket]

Breaking the weight #'s down in Onions worked well with my brain wiring setup.

[@janeblogs324]

8:21 certainly not. There are many steel frames that cracked bang on the haz line next to the braze

[@aubreyxengland]

the turtleneck. i’m here for it.

[@greiham1819]

What do you guys think about fixed gear bikes with a sloped top tube?

[@possibly8180]

Sloped top tubes are usually associated with barebones budget models where I live. Imho if it means more comfortable standover then just roll with it and ride it as intended.

[@psychoaiko666]

Hmm I don't like the look, lo pro on the other hand I find sexy af. But ride whatever tf you want ;) ... as long as it's not one of those electric abominations 🤣

[@event4216]

@Bebo Sloped tube isn't for easier leg swing as it's not so low to use frame as step-through. Handlebars are going to be lower than saddle so front end is easier to swing leg over bike. Sloping tubes let fit one size for bigger range of riders, yet they are useful for those who need often get off saddle without fully dismounting. Also great to have longer seat post (carbon) to dampen surface irregularities instead of 8-12cm shortie.

[@trekkerlanio4296]

@Bebo Ladies bikes are easier to ride !

[@trekkerlanio4296]

@Bebo Way to go Bebo! (I think Mamachari bikes are called ''Lekker'' bikes in Australia, and they cost around $1000 !

[@G_Ozare]

I’ve owned many aluminum framed bikes but nothing rides like a lugged steel bike.

[@event4216]

Probably lugs aren't that secret sauce, they just used them back then for good frames built from quality tubing. There are also frames with faux lugs put around welded joints to satisfy wish to have "lugged" frame.

[@christopheroliver148]

@@event4216 They aren't secret sauce, but they are a nice canvas for a good frame builder to add nice visual touches to a frame. Consider the work of the late Brian Bayliss or Doug Fattic for instance.

[@richardcarr6493]

I DON T KNOW WHAT THE GREEN N GOLD NJS BEAUTY IS BUT I LOVE IT !! l have ridden all but Ti my old steel steed still rides best !! UNLESS l find something better like a nicer steel type frame ...

[@janeblogs324]

When you say the bike weighs 2500 grams, do you mean frame, frame set, complete build, as pictured in that catalogue?

[@vlogvestibule]

I'm sure he just means the frame.

[@christopheroliver148]

I think frame and fork.

[@007-u2j]

A have a 1982 caloi 10 (similar to peagout 10) runs normal, mininal rust 3,5kg with the also steeal fork(not that light but for me i just dont need that light bike i prefer the one its more safe easy to mantain and durable, i wish ride that bike along to more 20/50 years) sory for my english if are some parts are understadable, im not a native speak.

[@007-u2j]

I run with a 46x16, ITS nota a fixie Just a single speed

[@christopheroliver148]

Onion for weight must be like Reddit's banana for size scale.

[@SFVYachtClub]

A kilogram of steel and a a kilogram of Fuji Feathers are both a kilogram.

[@dedesumarni2974]

👍👍👍👍 good.

[@newoldsteel]

That’s what my channel is all about lol

[@connornial8237]

Okay Steve Jobs

[@제주야생마]

I wasn't able hold myself to tell you about "ka- sei" first, I am no japanese. correct pronunciation : as far as I know, is more like "kay say" (K-say is more close to it) and yes steel is fucking real steel rules

[@if_not_fixed_its_broken]

I am in the uk, and have a njs stamped frame and thy will not let me use it on the velodrome, so you can gesh who hoped the fence when thy closed for the night 😂

[@skyjuiceification]

Wood is the oldest material bikes were made of~

[@NonameNoname-rf3hg]

Wood is good

[@TroubleshootGamingMeds]

I adore steel bikes!

[@phonk7356]

Steel's enemy is "Rust"

[@event4216]

For us non-competitive cyclists having super light frames with 4 hair thin tubing is just a matter of ego not real need. Very few have earned right to ride NJS bikes proudly and I really don't mean lazy zipping from Burger Land to Caffeine Island. In Japan a peasant couldn't have samurai's katana, that would be a nonsense.

[@event4216]

@Bebo Japanese frame builders hearing what you say about their skills would use katana) If you were true probably NJS frames would be sold in department stores all around globe as every dork would make two frames every day.

[@event4216]

@Bebo I haven't researched NJS frames and tubing used, really they use average stuff there? Why they command high prices, only because someone is willing to pay premium for NJS stamp and confetti under lacquer?

[@benjaminurzua8100]

Its unpleasant to see someone realing handlebars without undoing the stem bolts :/ protocols...

[@ss_whole]

Carbon Fiber is lighter, is it because it's actually lighter than steel or because Fiber rhymes with lighter, yes.

[@flwtheleader]

Steel maybe real, but Titanium is bae 🥰

[@singlespeedsoulja8415]

Turtlenecks are real too.

[@rushiiiop]

00:34 because I´m a cheap fu$% xD

[@josh_ari]

Rust is real. Aluminum is reliablinum.

[@Bratox187]

good channel but i really get annoyed by the wabi propaganda

[@Bratox187]

wabi wabi wabi blablabla good bikes for sure but not that special

[@Bratox187]

450? ur blind or what

[@saltyviewmedia]

Absolutely stupid tire clearance on that bike

[@haemstah]

Pork beusage?

[@Marc-gc8wz]

is it okay to have scratches? dude i get annoyed by it lol

[@MisterSal9895]

I see them as battle scars but dents on the frame is another thing

[@sonymicronin]

It’s a bike, it will be scratched eventually. Don’t stress over it even though it may be hard to if you have a bike with a sick paint job. But over the years you’ll grow to love the various scuffs it’s endured

[@christopheroliver148]

@Bebo Come back to this in two decades and make the same claim if you've continued serious riding. I think it was famed cycling coach Mike Walden who said one's bike is a weapon not a jewel.

[@juliancorona234]

First comment, I hope I’m not too late!

[@suponsupon4311]

I have only steel bikes.

[@stowawaybanjo]

Titanium. 😊

[@akumastealthily123]

Name brand name brandz I just wanna ride something I can slam

[@polycrase]

Ha ha!...Mark Gorski is riding a road bike with hand brakes and a freewheel after winning the gold in 1984, probably because he's holding his kid...wouldn't want go down while riding a dicey fixie.

[@zakwynter6948]

It's pronounced _kye-say_ not _kah-say_

[@event4216]

In German Kaese means cheese 😆

[@MetalPanic]

47 th 🤘🤘🤘

[@coolhand1966]

The reason you crashed was because you cycling like a loon and your bars are too wide. I hate to break it to you but that wasn't a crash, you just fell off your bike due to terrible riding so don't start saying steel bikes are invincible based on a fall. BTW: if you're going to ride fixed wheel get a front brake.

[@BB-tx7tq]

ZACK: Correction: Regarding Fuji 9658 tubing it is not 019e as you stated in this vid. That has been mistakenly claimed on bike forums. It is Ishiwata's EXO-M which is a quad butted SEAMED tubing with tube thicknesses of 9, 6, 5, 8. - hence the Fuji house brand name. Ishiwata 019e was seamless and also quad butted and had wall thicknesses of 8,5,4,7 making it a lighter tubeset by about 200g. See the specs in the below attachment. Fuji later introduced there upgraded and custom frameset under the "design Series" monacor which you feature in your vid and that was 019e. This frame wouldnt be special and custom if they simply used their already existing in house brand frame set of 9658 (secretly Ishiwata EXO-M) which their higher end production frames sets were already made of. My guess is Fuji used the EXO set to cut cost being it was a less expensive seamed tubing. Non the less it is very good steel. Make sense? 4.bp.blogspot.com/_iTKbhvyAciI/Sja88xEEXeI/AAAAAAAAAHo/yrRtlcCfWes/s1600/steel2+(Custom).jpg

[@twosox467]

Brazing is for people who can’t weld