Zero Dark Thirty reviewed by Mark Kermode

[@Clogan38]

It's amazing looking at complaints towards this film. One half of people are calling it pro america propaganda, the other half are calling it ANTI- American propaganda. I can't understand any of these people.

[@johns123]

So I just watched this film for the first time, and I don't think this film supports torture. The way it's depicted, it's such a degrading experience, so unsatisfying, that I never once thought the film endorsed torture.

[@Andrew-dp5kf]

Having just re-watched it I can say in my opinion it highlights the futility of torture as a way of obtaining information. It’s harrowing to watch, perhaps highlighting the motives behind using it

[@janosmarothy5409]

It's obviously made with a more artful touch than Rocky IV or Red Dawn, but it's state-sanctioned propaganda through and through. _Of course_ it depicts torture as degrading, etc. but that's par for the course in film that treats the War on Terror through a basically conformist lens. This microgenre of filmmaking _loooves_ to capture how traumatic war is on the _perpetrator_ of imperial violence... It's a recent trend post 9/11 but it already has to be said that we already have the prototype in First Blood! The subtext in movies like this, Hurt Locker, Sicario (cartels, terrorists, same diff), etc. is always the same: there's been a (supposed) civilizational loss of innocence post-9/11 and there's no room for "good guys" who aren't state-funded sociopaths anymore -- liberal democracy, we're told, needs to train its own monsters to fight the monstrous other, but we can't be so gauche about it like in Red Dawn, we have to affect a disenchanted, "gritty" aesthetic, completed with the ominous score, the cliched desaturated cinematography, the constant image of the leads crying and grimacing about the "necessary evils" they must engage in.

[@drdavid1963]

@@janosmarothy5409 It's either that or you make a documentary

[@teddyarcher3957]

Exactly, it's difficult to watch, not once was I sitting there thinking ' yeh thats alright, go get em and catch these bad terrorists' It's pretty despicable and really makes you question the CIAs means to an end methods...

[@kermodeandmayo]

It is awards season, so legitimate awards discs ('for your consideration') are made available.

[@MattCipolla]

The controversy regarding torture was blown out of proportion. Its depiction of government torture is completely objective; it simply recounts true events as opposed to bringing in the politics or giving it a sense of social commentary which in this type of film would have lacked context.

[@Vik99]

Lol Barrowman isn’t walking with just some bloke reading a file, he’s walking alongside James Gandolfini!!

[@TheYellowRobin]

I love the still at the beginning of this video.

[@TheFlyingPlectrum]

Zero Dark Thirty doesn't mean specifically half past midnight. It's a generic term for the middle of the night or the very early shift. Or at least it was in my time in the military.

[@nayden5834]

Its a masterclass of film-making, quality film.

[@teddyarcher3957]

Absolutely, there was a peak of 'adult' drama films around this time.

[@Phi1618033]

"Is Near Dark a romantic movie?" "Yes, I think it was." LOL

[@TheTerryGene]

I find it interesting, given the Good Doctor’s obsession with the Exorcist, that Joshua Miller, who played the child vampire in Near Dark, and Jason Patric (star of The Lost Boys) are sons of Jason Miller (Father Karras in The Exorcist).

[@mousehead2000]

'Don't wait for this on DVD because you'll have to turn off all the lights'? Why wouldn't you turn off all the lights in your house to watch a movie????

[@cerberusdest]

"Without condoning... or condemning. I understand."

[@chrishiggins7166]

This well crafted historical thriller delivers grips, intensity & shocks of its historical content of the film & is one of director Kathryn Bigelow’s best films. (93%) (4.5/5 stars) (positive)

[@oOAltoOo]

Can't say I agree with Mark's point on the torture being a failure and that being nice was successful. Being nice only worked because the guy had been kept in the dark concerning the attack, he had been tortured to the point where he could no longer remember his actions, leading him to believed the bluff that he had given away information that prevented an attack. Surely if anything this presents the case that the torture was effective.

[@Andrew-dp5kf]

Not really, the key breakthrough was the realisation that they were looking for the wrong brother, the scene you’re referring to could have been equally effective by keeping him in solitary or a number of other non violent methods. I mean you could even have used sodium pentathol if your real aim was information gathering. Torture is not a reliable means of extracting worthwhile information.

[@u4tiwasdead]

i wonder if the film was originally intended as an American version of Memories of Murder, before OBL was actually found.

[@clayjohanson]

A couple of comments: First, no one in the US military says "ZERO dark thirty". They say "OH dark thirty". A similar expression to it (also used frequently) is "Oh my God it's early". Second, it doesn't mean half past midnight or any other literal time. It's a joke which basically means, "sometime in the middle of the night when I really should be asleep". As in, "We're getting up at oh dark thirty to go fishing." (The implication being that you need to be in the boat with your lines in the water before the sun comes up.)

[@cisco236]

Not true, former Navy Pilot here, we used Zero Dark Thirty all the time, but not to describe a specific time, but any ungodly hour

[@derekdiercksmeier486]

If "Zero Dark Thirty" Is Not A Masterpiece, Then I Don't Know What The Hell Is.

[@timothyw98]

Im still shocked Kessica Chatsain didn't pick up the oscar for best actress for a emotionally engaging cold performance. That hallway sequence when she yells at her her boss left me scared,

[@12sin8]

John Barrowman turning up took it from near perfect to very good for me, a

[@QuasiRandomViewer]

05:15 "Zero Dark Thirty is military speak for half past midnight." No it isn't. Zero-dark-thirty is any time in the very early morning hours. Its name comes from a generalization of various half-past hours such as 00:30, 01:30, 02:30, etc., but its use isn't even restricted to half past. If an evolution is scheduled for 03:15, you still complain about it being at zero-dark-thirty. Other than that, great discussion.

[@arihoyzn2781]

QuasiRandomViewer thanks for pointing that out. We used to say “Oh-dark-thirty” which Robin Williams referenced in Good Morning Vietnam when he joked that the “Oh” stood for “Oh my God, it’s early!”.

[@jamesbarker1767]

no but your missing the point. In the last scene Maya breaks down perhaps because she knows that the killing of Bin Laden wasn't worth the horrors of the last decade.

[@CROSSFADEEDAFE]

Which also has been leaked together with almost all of the other 'for your consideration' discs unfortunately.

[@Theanonymous1s]

At first, I thought Mark's comment about there being no feminist point was partly telling of the problem: there are no points being made. After thinking about it, I've reconsidered. The movie is deliberately ambiguous. The characters go from displaying their humanity to being cold and ruthless. I wish there was a longer lasting focus on the interrogator "Dan", who, despite being quite a conflicted character worth exploring further, was side-lined somewhat. That aside, this was a great film.

[@ssgsorrels]

i think that the movie tries to say that if they hadnt tortured him first, he wouldnt be afraid of what would happen if he didnt help them when they were being nice. the terrorist would rather have a nice meal than get shoved in a box again.

[@undermoss6394]

Zero-dark-30 doesn't mean half past midnight. It's a nihilistic joke about being ready super early, so early it's still dark, for whatever army training decided they had to do.

[@singher100]

king kermode gets the review spot on again tence and dark movie,kathryn bigelow very cool director.

[@cisco236]

Zero Dark Thirty doesn’t really mean half past midnight, it’s a reference to any ungodly early hour: W:“What time is your brief?” A: Zero-Dark-Thirty. Oh, and torture works…

[@circleofrage]

'unthinkable' is a far superior study of the war on terror interrogation/torture debate imo.

[@MrBinaryBob]

Somebody else has mentioned this, but how did Mr Mayo watch this on disc?

[@NxDoyle]

There are far too many dark movies and TV shows. I don't know if people are trying to emulate Gordon Willis, but whether they are or not, the effect of light and shadow is not achieved by turning the brightness & contrast down.

[@jamesbarker1767]

"stomach churning Us propaganda" Yeh while I was watching the torture scenes I almost fell in love with America??. What are you on about? Maybe Transformers 2 is more your type of movie, you know stuff just blowing up!!

[@Jonmad17]

Did Žižek (who I normally agree with) expect a saccharin Spielberg movie that tells you exactly what and how to feel? It isn't necessary for a movie to be emotionally manipulative to create an impression. I, and probably many others in that unusually still and quiet screening, felt absolutely horrified during those scenes. That straight, frigid documentary style was an aesthetic choice that was kept throughout the entire film, not just in those particular scene. Representation isn't endorsement

[@SSCFPA]

It only seems like that IF you think most of the fictional depictions of terrorism in movies are anything like real life. As for his location, ever heard of the phrase 'hiding in plain sight?'

[@ThisHandleIsInteresting]

Only not dismissing torture fast enough XD

[@Newguyz]

Zero dark thirty was seal team 6 code for ZERO detection-Going in DARK-in & out 30 min Lol Brits don’t know

[@hellsfoxes]

so... when r u guys gona post the actual review of the film? You know, the good and bad stuff about it?

[@truthteller4689]

Do these guys even like each other? Or is Kermode just really hard to get on with?

[@staforiii]

Truth Teller they argue like a married couple

[@123afish]

The final scene really didn't portray the US positively.

[@Grifftinderpals]

Why can't Mark Kermode say, just once...'cheer up Simon mate, eh?'

[@chrisrenaldo643]

disagree RE: "Code Name Geronimo". same story 'treated' differently, not the least of which is budget vis a vis 'A-List', etc. I view "Zero Dark" had more panache/production values, whereas "Geronimo" was shot/produced more like a "documentary". within the SpecOps world, SEALs are/were regarded as "silent professionals" and not the "rock stars/heroes" the for profit news and entertainment media depict (pimp) them. not indicting or praising either director/film. merely suggesting it's possible both were "accomplished the mission".

[@12sin8]

John Barrowman turning up took this movie from near perfect, to very good... a poor piece of casting from Kathryn B!

[@pontiacgirl73]

its a true story.

[@Shay42]

Near Dark rocks!

[@triyuga]

The interviewee gets so snooty when questioned about the name of the film

[@Templars1005]

Point Break is Bigelow's best film.

[@gomey70]

Because it's complete fiction for a start. We're led to believe this is how it went down, but doesn't address any of the many questions surrounding the execution, such as...how on earth the US took so long to find him when he's openly camped out beside a Pakistani army base.

[@DavinPL]

There's something about the way Kathryn Bigelow directs that rubs me the wrong way in general. Beautiful looking movies and good performances, but I just don't really love most of her movies

[@dantheman4838]

I think it is US propaganda. Torture scenes or not, the movie is trying to get you to support the US war on terror, warts and all. Much like Saving private Ryan is a pro war film because despite all the horrific violence you still admire the characters involved in it. Zero dark thirty is the same. It's trying to make the audience think that torture is horrific but a necessary evil in a fight for good.

[@Jonmad17]

At no point in the film are American operatives portrayed positively. Can you give an example of propaganda?

[@dubman50]

A story of the failed hunt to kill UBL quickly changed & influenced by the style of a TV Series? If thrilling, engaging and gripping film-making(however well executed) excuses atrocities & lies in history as entertainment for Oscar season, this is a masterpiece. Kermode,seriously, I'm a big fan of your criticism but you need to be more objective. Try reviewing independent films for a start. If half the films you review were not commercial animals I would find it vhard to laugh at you sometimes.

[@MATTE.U.K]

homeland the movie

[@wombat989]

First time I have ever disagreed with the King of film critics. There was no tension, and Chastain is over rated. That said, the last 40 minutes were so realistic it was almost like a documentary.

[@17peteclarke]

............ you didn't address the pro-imperialist sentiment NOR the fact that the Twitter account of the film promoted drone warfare.

[@FelonyBellend]

It's a story about the ultimate Karen

[@gregwxst]

The Karen that saved the world. Imagine being so pathetic, touch some grass or get help

[@irishbloke99]

Sorry but you say the film is tense, its not, its really boring until the last 40 mins. it started good and got stuck half way with scene's that were not needed. The film was too long and a real disapointement till the actual raid.

[@grungeface87]

'UBL', as he isn't known

[@stevendurrant1724]

The CIA had massive input into this film. They have a department that specialises in engagement with the entertainment industry. Don't believe me? What would you do if you were the CIA? This level of propaganda and re-writing of history would make Stalinists wince.

[@blackbrandonblue]

Myaahhhh it doesn't contain a fist-shaking diatribe against Amyarican impyrrialism so I refuse to engage with it myyahhh. Way to fail a Rorschach test. And one this intriguing, too. Oh well, your loss.

[@AyaxTelemonio]

feminists hate bigelow because she makes "movies for men"

[@jobsingames]

AMERICAN PROPAGANDA at it's very finest. God Bless the CIA !

[@Goldsopp]

Has Katherine Bigelow gone one political misstep too far? This film is informative in a breathless journalistic way and intermittently intriguing but its really just a contrived, arrogant, over-stuffed mish mash of left and right wing view points that ultimately is hugely dull. Much preferred the intimate The Hurt Locker.

[@rundle19938]

this was quite a disappointing review