The WEIRDEST Location in Elden Ring | LORE

[@paralam2175]

Maybe the reason for Ranni's Fingers being so distorted is the usage of the power of the Rune of Death to kill it. I mean, look at what it did to Godwyn. Ranni taking inspiration from the Fingerslayer Blade to make the Black Knives isn't impossible, given that she already knows about its existance in advance, and I imagine she would be in good terms with the Nox.

[@slamfistlord9242]

That's been my read on it the whole time as well. Twisted in the same way, and the scar even has the centipede whorl look to it.

[@christianjones4798]

Ranni probably took inspiration for the black knives from the finger slaying blade we retrieve from Nokron

[@blargminton]

problem with that theory is the reason Godwyn is so distorted is because he isnt dead. the soul is dead but the body lives and the living corpse squirms to grow and conquer as if its a plant made of skin, muscle, and bone hence the body horror we behold ranni's fingers are dead, like just out-and-out dead. no pseudo-death event going on there so outside of a few 'joints' possibly being broken bones there no real explanation for the apparent thumb that appears to be there

[@mmyr8ado.360]

She was in good terms with the Nox, up until the Tarnished stole the Fingerslayer Blade in Nokron, because by the end of her questline we see the bodies of Black Knife Assassins near Blaidd and Iji.

[@blargminton]

@@mmyr8ado.360 those werent real Black Knife Assassins, they were only pretending to be thats why their flames were black and white instead of black and red. those were godskin assassins

[@istoleasweetroll7937]

i absolutely just love how this game makes you feel like you’re entering an entirely different world filled with secrets and wonders whenever we went underground. Great vid, Hope you hit 100k soon😁

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

In other news: 20 million Elden Ring copies sold! Let's goooo!!!!

[@bleakbriar8514]

Because of the mushrooms down in the hole, it was my impression that they fingers had been there for a while, but maybe the hole itself wasn't. Like the fingers were buried under the cathedral anticipating Ranni's betrayal of the Golden Order. Then when we beat Radan, a meteor or something crashes into the cathedral and that reveals the location of her TF.

[@ezkillionaire3276]

ZIOSTORM HEAR ME OUT: (spoilers ahead) What if Ranni and Melena are twins? One gifted with the Holy power that comes from faith, and the other with magical prowess? Melena is the real Founder of the Black Knives (that's why her Dagger has the same Ash of War: it's the original) and the super realistic "puppet" body that we see Ranni use is actually Melena's REAL body that she gave up for her sister. That Big-Hat guy made a puppet body for Ranni using Melena's own flesh ... That's why her face matches in the afterimage. because it IS her. Then, after losing a physical form, she lost her memory. Her mother, Queen Marika (WHO IS ALSO RADAGON), then bade her to burn the tree with her very spirit as kindling, for it was the only thing that could release the Queen's bonds. This bred hatred in Melena's spirit. And that hatred takes physical form as the Gloam Eyed Queen if you make her too mad (I.E. the Frenzy Flame ending. That's my theory LOL I'm sure there's holes, but what do you think???

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

The damage to Manus Celes looks more like an internal collapse due to neglect, rather than something hitting it from the outside. I think what makes the most sense is that the two fingers normally resided at this church, but when they sensed Ranni had the fingerslayer blade they burrowed into the ground to hide. It's weird though that the fingers have a cursemark carved into them. The cursemark is half of the eclipse, and as such wards of half of destined death.

[@pieoverlord]

Okay so here's a minor to major theory: the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold aren't real. They're as illusory as the rest of the Hold. The Greater Will has indeed abandoned the world and the real Fingers, bereft of purpose, turn into wood in their proper place (they might not even be dead, just inactive and decayed). Marika, most likely, placed the fake Fingers in the fake Hold to guide the Tarnished to the Erdtree, so that one might realise the way is blocked and the world is trapped in stasis, and take the path of fire (Melina isn't strictly necessary here, all the Tarnished were supposed to have a Finger Maiden to point them in the right direction then serve as kindling, see Shabriri and Vyke). Once the Hold Fingers has got them to that point it locks up effectively indefinitely. Ranni's Fingers are different however. It was forced away somehow during Ranni's suicide, but did not die - Ranni discovers she needs the Fingerslayer blade to truly kill it and free herself. These Fingers retain a purpose - kill Ranni for her blasphemy - and burrow below Manus Celes, creating Baleful Shadows to guard itself and attack Ranni. It isn't until we kill the last of the Shadows that she feels safe enough to use her puppet body to finally slay the Fingers in its hiding place.

[@christianjones4798]

I have a few ideas. I think that the cathedral of Manus Celes was built in honor of Rennala while the Church of Vows was built for Radagon. Maybe Manus was built by the Carian royal family and Ranni took the opportunity to hide her two fingers beneath the cathedral. I also believe that the reason why Ranni's fingers look different, is because her fingers aren't tied to the greater will like our two fingers. We see the two fingers in the round table hold stick straight up after we burn the tree, though I can't remember exactly how or when they do this, but when we enter Placidusax's boss arena, we see him holding a similar pose. My theory is that both are either communing with their respective gods, or trying to commune. It wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of moon or star deity that communicated to Ranni through her unique two fingers. We know for a fact that there are multiple different fingers, so it's possible that Ranni's two fingers were either made by a different outer god or if they were taken over by it. Did it get taken over because of Ranni's actions away from the greater will? It's also entirely possible that her fingers got so messed up as a result of Ranni's body's death. I don't know how linked the two fingers are to demigods or empyreans, so it's entirely possible that the night of black knives physical twisted Ranni's two fingers.

[@alwayzfitshaced]

I’m not an expert when it comes to lore but what I got out of this video is maybe the cathedral got destroyed over time from the dragon defending it. Or maybe something tried to stop Ranni from killing the two fingers but they were underground and couldn’t get to her in time. Love your videos I’m glad I found your channel.

[@Reawer]

how Metroid prime music fits so well in a medieval rpg is astonishing

[@UltravioletNomad]

So heres an important question to ask, how do other fingers get to their place. They appear to be bursting from the ground, but most located at the highest points of buildings, can they be moved, at they tied to the roots of the Erdtree, or are they actually shallow and fell just as you surmise? So heres an idea, as another commenter has pointed out, the Fingers and their palm appear to be pointed away. Now one might assume it was Ranni who moved the fingers but how. I have to assume that the Fingers were there, the hole might even be where they stood. However regardless is they were in the cathedral originally or not, theres one simple explanation to multiple mysteries here, the fingers themselves dug the hole. It explains why it wind down in sporadic directions, why the fingers are completely mangled, and why they're so proactive about stopping you an Ranni. This desperate attempt to hide fits its MO of road blocking and resisting Ranni. Of all the demigods, she presented the strongest will to resist their fate, so perhaps even Radahn's fight to protect the Golden Order by arresting the stars was an influential bid by the two fingers to stop Ranni. Its a level of intervention thats only given to her, so the sheer terror they feel, knowing shes gone as far all killing her physical form, they tried their hardest to hide. The destruction of the cathedral is Ranni's influence, the stars crashed down to destroy the fingers. Perhaps that incident is the very thing that alerted them to arrest the stars.

[@peacefusion]

The building was destroyed for a long gime, maybe during the Night of Black knives or when Radhan left Rennala. The hole to the fingers suggest it was made when Radhan died, just like the hole in Nokron. Thats why Ranni sent you to look for Nokron. To help Blaid find the Finger Slayer Blade and proceed with the plan to kill the Fingers. The Moon is obviously a seperate Ancient outer God that allows more free will than the Greater will.

[@LyraniaLothar]

What I don't get more than anything is Astel's presence on the way to the "elevator" maybe when Ranni betrayed her two fingers Astel took them for himself, hence the blue hue and lack of hair. Making stuff up here but that could also explain the location of the fingers themselves; Astel dug the hole there knowing that the only way there was through him. Ranni might have simply flew her way up there with the dragon and the dragon stays by to protect her while she does the deal.

[@CrazyProAmazing]

I think the fingers look off cause we’re looking at the back of them. If you look at Ranni’s fingers and how they bend it very different compared to other fingers. The knuckles seem backwards like it was trying to climb it’s way out before ranni stab and killed it.

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

It seems to me that Manus Celes probably predates the Church of Vows, from a time when the Carians were at war or in a war-like posture (hence the swords). Either way, similarity in architecture isn't sufficient to conclude that both buildings were built for the same purpose, only that they were built by the same people.

[@jarrodmazzacca1911]

If the fingers were connected to the moon. Perhaps when radahn was holding the stars in place halting ranni's fate, he also halted the death of her fingers in the process. Not allowing her to completely untether from the fingers.

[@Aluzio76]

Probably others have the same thought, but what if Ranni’s two fingers, giggity, were “stored” underground, and needed a meteor to break the ground to them?

[@str_brst8979]

could be that once an empyrean was born, the greater will sent the two fingers to govern them, they crash land in to a spot where they then build a cathedral for them

[@TheProphet49]

The damage to the church, winding path and shards make more sense coming from a star born beast...like Astel. We have 3 or more of the star creatures in Liurnia, on the East side in the underground and then Astel over in the West.

[@Not____Applicable]

Maybe Ranni wanted the curse mark of death not just for removing herself physically from the golden order but to remove her connection to the fingers as well. We’ve seen across the lands between with other demigods and their fingers what happens when they just disregard the existence or go down a non-golden order path. I wouldn’t be surprised if we got info that when she received the cursemark, it did something to the fingers assigned to her as well. It also could be she killed the fingers herself, anybody’s guess now tbh. Aside from a Miquella dlc, I’d love a dlc where we could go back in time to the era of the golden order before the night of the black knives and go through the story until that night to learn more about the past.

[@popamarianalexandru8159]

Always quality content! That's the reason I have subbed! Can't wait for the day when I open this app and your video called "Elden Ring DLC leaked" pops up!:)

[@Galamoth06]

So they're mushrooms from space, then? I want to know why both the Fingerslayer Blade and the Sacred Relic Sword are both made from bodies. What's the connection between Ranni and the Elden Beast both wielding weapons with that specific attribute?

[@queertitan]

I knew this background music sounded familiar

[@Darksaige]

So when I finally reached this area, there were fingers EVERYWHERE in that ruin. I wanna say by every star shared was a set of fingers against a wall, on the ground or in a corner.

[@Not____Applicable]

The moon is or has an outer god that needs to be examined more.

[@Jarmister]

If Church of Vows is symbol of connection with Golden Order. Then Manus Celestus is a clear symbol of connection to the moon. The idea of fingers falling down from the sky is a compelling one. But Fate connected to the stars can mean something more in this sense. Like Fate being naturally controlled by stars. But Elden Ring falling in for of a star (or Elden Ring being one ) to the land between override that rule astrology or most of it.

[@azataylor1]

Is it for certain the churches were built to honor the union? Miriel says 'how it came to be known as the Church of vows'. Or something along those lines. Since we use celestial dew in the church of vows, linking it to the eternal city, and astel now blocks the way to manus celes, maybe the church of vows is a building built by or with ties to the eternal city that was repurposed by radagon and renalla and had been maintained better than manus? Also, is there a chance rannis fingers were distorted by her killing her body but not her soul? Could explain why they take on the same colour as her.

[@DjAtmaWeapon]

Maybe they didn't find a way to send the fingers of Ranni into the moon so someone tried to hide it underground under the church (still accessible through a kind of hidden hole in the mountain after all). Maybe they could send it, but they wished to keep it in the Lands Between for a self defense reason or something. The random path to the underground is maybe someone who tried to uncover it, just like when you search for something lost into the sand or snow. Anyway, pretty damn good video, not far from VaatiVidya quality in term of infos.

[@r3gret2079]

🎵Space Fingers! They fell from space. Space Fingers! They wrecked this old place. Space Fingers! They're coming for you! Space Fingers! Kill 'em and praise the moon!!!🎶

[@melektaus3883]

Manus Celes is NOT celestial hand in latin! I think it means hidden/disguised/secret hand or hiding/disguised hand. Celestial hand would be Manus Caeles. Apparently I’ve made it my life’s work to correct the Latin in this theory 😝

[@burtonguster9325]

Ranni's two fingers look like they grew inside the hole / cave, like there was no room to grow. Maybe the fingers are a fungus? I think there was a video about them being a fungi.

[@nightscout9979]

If Ranni sent her Two Fingers into space, why would she ever bring it back? Based on what you say she intends to do with the Elden Ring, Ranni considers sending something far into space a permanent solution. Ranni would never empower an already defeated enemy just to try defeating it again. Also, Ranni could have avoided even killing her body by just sending the Two Fingers into space and out of range. If the Two Fingers was indeed in space, then the only beings who may hypothetically benefit from its return are the stars, as using the Fingerslayer Blade might trap Ranni's soul deeper in their "fates" and thus make her a slave, akin to victims of Starlight Shards potions. In such a scenario, the Dark Moon wouldn't be a benevolent ally to Ranni, but instead seek to slowly take her autonomy without her realizing it. That could explain why Ranni, the mastermind of the Night of the Black Knives, is now helpless without the literal heavens moving to open the path to Nokron, where she's then pointed toward a weapon no one can wield without an outside power binding them. Ranni also supposedly started her plans to ensure no one would control her, but the stars, through their "fates", end up steering Ranni into still taking the Elden Ring as an Empyrean, still taking an "Elden" Lord, and even having a special ring on her akin to what Mohg forced on Miquella. Ranni ends up exactly as she would have if she was chosen to be Marika's successor and wielded the Elden Ring as queen. Ranni's judgment being clouded could also explain why she never tells her ally Adula, who is sapient enough to swear an oath of servitude to her, about her Tarnished champion. It would also explain why Ranni wordlessly expects her champion to risk being murdered by her mother, or to risk her beloved mother being injured or killed by her champion, to get the Dark Moon Ring. The light blue coloration for Ranni's soul only appears elsewhere in Elden Ring for victims of the Starlight Shards potions or spirits bound by Fia's necromancy as well. Overall, if the Two Fingers are already in space, then Ranni has nothing to gain and only risks disaster by bringing them back, and only a party that hopes to gain power over Ranni would benefit from the "get and use the Fingerslayer Blade" quest at all. For the cathedral's original purpose, it seems to depict the Nox, akin to the Church of Vows. As such, both buildings may have been made by the Nox, or otherwise in an era when Liurnia was closely aligned with Nokron. The fact that the Moonlight Altar wasn't sent underground with Nokron implies that the altar faction and Nokron had ceased being allies before the Eternal City's punishment. With the presence of two moons in the sky at the altar, along with intense light beams akin to those from the Erdtree, perhaps the ancient civilization courted favor from different outer gods and a power struggle or war occurred, causing the place to be abandoned and its arts to be lost. Maybe Rennala ultimately "found" her moon by rediscovering certain arts at the Moonlight Altar, with Rennala's benefactor being the bright moon and, later on, Ranni seeking guidance from the darker one. Speaking of Ranni's moon, the thing she manifests in her ending is peculiar. Rather than a waygate, which is a transparent swirl of energy, The Age of Stars ending depicts a solid image of a moon apparently being devoured from within by a black hole. Moon fragments and what seem to be stars are drawn in as straight streams, and the all-devouring darkness is reminiscent of the Eternal Darkness spell, as well as the "final moments of a great star cluster" that Lusat witnessed, courtesy of Stars of Ruin's description. If the Dark Moon is left to govern the Lands Between upon Ranni's departure, it might destroy the planet entirely. If Ranni had been "guided" to place the Elden Ring within the Dark Moon's void, then perhaps that outer god will wield the artifact at its whims. Thanks again for your videos, Ziostorm!

[@drewdabrew4745]

When u talk abt the hole I thought of the the three fingers deep in that huge hole straight into the ground.... Hmmmmm

[@SixxWolfZx]

4:06 you cut out the part I was waiting for 😭

[@jeffwoodie4395]

I've always been curious about the coffin or crypt above ground in the cathedral - who is interred there?

[@Raso719]

I still find it interesting there are portraits of Sellen, the excommunicated "The Graven Witch" but not of Rani in the halls of Raya Lucaria.

[@SentinalhMC]

I don't think Ranni ever attended the academy. She would probably have been privately tutored by Rennala and the Preceptors before Radagon forced them to wear those masks.

[@doublejesusful]

I'm so sad Blaidd could be ruined and forever sound like uberdanger in my head. "I am searching the land for the most delicious children..."

[@mihail3362]

you forgot an important detail. from ranni inside the cave there is a path that leads to nowhere

[@_ElisDTrailz]

Man, the more I think about the deeds she asks you to do and the other people harmed/killed in order for her to decide her own destiny, the more I dislike her. She kills her older brother figure/idol in Godwyn. She has you kill her brother Radahn. She betrays her lifelong friend in Blaidd who then goes insane and dies. Finally her other lifelong friend Iji is assassinated because of her actions - an outcome they both knew was likely.

[@giantmidget4867]

Marika participated in the night of black knives as well, and Godwyn was hardly family to Ranni. Radahn looked up to him, but Godwyn from their perspective was just the son of the woman that their dad left their mom for. Killing Radahn is a mercy, he's rotted inside and out. The radahn festival is held to end his misery. Ranni loved blaidd and never betrayed him, he defended her till the end but as the game states, was driven mad by the influence of the greater will or the fingers to end ranni's blasphemy. Iji died because he helped her. It's a sad and hard path. But one that was necessary to cut the world off from the greater will.

[@_ElisDTrailz]

She still murdered someone in cold blood and her and Iji knew exactly what would happen to Blaidd, and knew he would have to be put down. Her and iji also knew the fate that awaited iji for helping her. Seems like she manipulated both to their deaths.

[@giantmidget4867]

@@_ElisDTrailz they knew, how would they be manipulated into that other than their own love for her making them devoted to helping her even at their own expense? They knew fully well the ramifications of what betraying the fingers and the golden order brought, they'd fought off black knives before. You making up her manipulating two people whom she loved, and states herself privately she loves and asks that you say goodbye to them for her, doesn't mean she actually manipulated them even so, she's far from the most evil and selfish when compared to Gwyn, Mohg, Marika, Godrick, Elemer, pontiff sulyvahn, dungeater, selivus, Gideon, or most important people fromsoft has made

[@_ElisDTrailz]

@giantmidget4867 From games are all about interpretation and I personally think she is a manipulative schemer but to each their own.

[@franciosdauteuil4626]

6:00 literally nothing in game points to the manus altar being connected to the church of vows.... yes it has the same patterns and similar statues but that is to show the common designers and builders (the carians) and that it is a place of importance. They COULD be connected in that since they follow the same design and the church of vows was made to honor the union of the erdtree and the carian family. but manus celeste is much much grander and many signs show it to be older from the connection to the eternal cities and the intense growth all over the altar. This was made to honor a connection to the carian family but it wasn't made for the erdtree and shows ZERO connections to the erdtree. Manus celeste was made to either honor a wedding or an alliance between the carians and the eternal cities or between the carians and the original astrologers. This site was devoted the great moons presence there and to the strong connection between the land and magic there.

[@frankiefromky]

...and yet Another Banger!!

[@joshuawilson9005]

Biggest question is why is her two fingers there and not at her body where is her rune if she discarded that means someone has it

[@drewdabrew4745]

Maybe her fingers came from the moon .

[@grayrim]

I thought the video was going to be about her upside down tower lol

[@roscocsa]

They’re vegas wedding chapels?

[@nunchuksteev9811]

The discord link says it's invalid. I wanna lore chat with the boys, someone help me please.

[@bjabbott8717]

Anybody know what kind chainmail is equipped at 9:17 in the video?

[@tilttilt9316]

Looks like altered "blue silver set" without helmet to me.

[@bjabbott8717]

@@tilttilt9316 thanks. I thought I had just about every armor in the game, but I didn't recognize this one. It looks pretty cool.

[@PerfectScrewUps]

Yo where's that dlc you're talking about????

[@mevil2526]

I think the two fingers were there a long time before Radhan was killed. One has to wonder then why they were in such a hidden and inaccessible place and I think they were there because they were hiding from Ranni. So when the stars started moving again they not only showed us the way to Nokron but by falling on Manus Celes they helped Ranni to find the location where the two fingers were hiding.

[@Letwoo67]

It’s also possible she wasn’t able to kill them without the finger slayer blade.

[@JoaoVitor-qy3ze]

​@@Letwoo67 I think this is correct. The item's description says it allows to sever a connection with the Greater Will, so it makes sense that Ranni kills her Two Fingers only after getting the item. I also think this is the moment where the Greater Will enforces Blaidd's curse, making him go mad.

[@665Sunshine]

I agree with you, as the Fingers look firmly planted in those rocks,as it they’d been growing there for a long time.

[@melektaus3883]

This theory (the fingers were hiding from Ranni) also matches the name of the location. Manus Celes is Latin for “secret hand” or “hidden hand”.

[@alastor8091]

That and with Fate literally being held in stand still by Radahn, neither side could be able to win just like how all the demigods are in a stalemate.

[@Killroy007]

I always thought manus celes was the traditional place for the carians to marry at. And after radagons leave rennala was in pain, destroying a part of it and keeping it away from the commonfolk, but not able to completely grind it to dust due to the families past/traditions. Astel would have been able to make his home before the entrance without issue then and ranni wouldve sent her dragon there to keep its eyes on the situation, to stop any other demigod or powerful being from using the location for their own goals.

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

I’m pretty sure the church of vows was where Radagon and Rennala got married though.

[@Killroy007]

@@meloneatingwolf1882 you can have the ceremony there and the celebration at manus celes, or a public ceremony at the church of vows and a private one at manus celes, whatever

[@anthonyzeedyk406]

​@@meloneatingwolf1882 Miriel mentions that the Church of Vows was chosen specifically for Radagon and Rennala because it overlooks the Erdtree and Raya Lucaria. It makes perfect sense that Manus Celes is the traditional place because that's where the Tarnished gives Ranni the ring. Also, if it was the traditional place of marriage for the Carians, it would make sense why it would fall into disrepair after not being used for XXXX years.

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

K gotcha.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

In other news: 20 million Elden Ring copies sold! Let's goooo!!!!

[@rainbowkrampus]

Adula is probably there to keep the fingers in place. There was clearly a back exit to the hole. The tunnel was probably an attempt to escape the cathedral. But with a dragon keeping watch, the fingers ended up stuck there. Which means it was already there well before Radahn's death. I think the whole cathedral might relate to some failed plot of Ranni's. My guess is an earlier failed attempt to kill the fingers. I'm not sure why that necessitated building a cathedral for them. But there's a lot here that we're missing. My guess, she tried dropping a baby Astel on the fingers and that's why there's a hole in the building and the fingers look kinda mangled.

[@RealShayok]

I believe the fingers are the "Manus Celes" meaning the Cathedral was made around the fingers. I think they were supposed to be above ground, like all other fingers, at the top of the pit. One theory I had was the fingers went down this hole to where you see them now, I would assume, in the fight with Ranni. Who knows if the fingers can fight, or retreat. I like your theory of the fingers and erdtree being fungus, so maybe this path you jump down to get to Ranni and the fingers, were the "roots" of the mushroom. Ranni had to fight the fingers but they kept retreating down deeper. A different perspective is that these fingers are different than all other fingers. If the Manus Celes was a higher power than others, I believe the Erdtree/Golden order would have waged war on them. That would explain why the Cathedral is destroyed. Also why the fingers are underground, maybe in a place of hiding. Radagon knew they existed when he was with Rennala, then once he left he would have known where they were to come back and destroy the cathedral and the fingers, but he couldn't since he didnt have the finger slayer blade. So he just put them in the ground, until Ranni comes to finish it, with the proper tools. Lots of ways to interpret that environmental story telling.

[@hereticseraphim73]

My idea for the existence of Manus Celes was that since the church of vows was created to represent Radagon and Rennala’s marriage, Manus Celes was made to honor the marriage between Ranni and whoever she would eventually be betrothed to her (they built an entire cathedral since this would essentially be the marriage for the next god and the next elden lord after Marika).

[@rainbowkrampus]

Maybe. But why call it "Celestial Hand"? Church of Vows does what it says on the tin. Celestial Hand is rather cryptic in comparison if it's meant for a wedding. It kinda seems like they built the cathedral for the fingers, given the naming convention.

[@justwelsh]

@@rainbowkrampus for the Hand of god shall land here and be slain by the would be queen and the consort shall ask for her hand in marriage

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@justwelsh Huh?

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

In other news: 20 million Elden Ring copies sold! Let's goooo!!!!

[@Pecetos]

@@rainbowkrampus Church of Vows is called Church of Vows only after the marriage, it was propobly called something diffrent before.

[@abydosianchulac2]

Thought: Ranni's Two Fingers are the only real Two Fingers, and the others are all constructs/avatars/puppets it speaks through. It would explain why such a sacred being was so exposed on the towers and in the Roundtable Hold when all other divine figures are hidden away (answer is they weren't, they were always hidden underground). And it'd explain why the others look like wooden, moldering constructs while these are fleshy and alive.

[@Desimor]

That actually makes me curious. There's a point where the two fingers at the round table fall silent and enter an almost dormant state. If this event triggers after Ranni has killed her two fingers, then it may confirm your theory.

[@comeatme6ro413]

​ @@Desimor I believe the roundtable fingers ignore you after you ignite the erdtree

[@Desimor]

@@comeatme6ro413 That makes more sense. Which means this theory may not hold water.

[@alfalldoot6715]

​@come at me 6ro Not ignore you but contact the Greater Will to figure out what the Hell to do, this takes years.

[@octolinggrimm6387]

​@@Desimor That happens after you find out that the Erdtree is sealed off.

[@Terminalsanity]

I think Ranni's fingers descended long ago before the shattering and the night of Black Knives. I suspect they became significantly distorted after Ranni shed her Empyrean body as they were directly link to it and Ranni. The key aspect of killing Radahn was freeing Ranni's fate which is what finally allowed Ranni to use the Finger slayer blade, which notably can only be wielded by someone with a fate.

[@OldManInternet]

The timing on this video was funny, because I've been playing Elden Ring again for the first time since launch. Today I happened to finish the Ranni questline, and noticed for the first time that her bloody dead Two Fingers were in that hole (I don't know what I thought it was the first time, I was probably too excited for the DMGS to pay attention). Since the puppet was also covered in blood, AND you give her the means to kill her Two Fingers as part of the quest, I would assume she recently killed it after you gave her the means to do so. She also states after you kill the Baleful Shadow that she is coming for the Two Fingers, to deliver a wound that will never heal, so it would make sense that she probably slays her Two Fingers sometime between you killing the Baleful Shadow and Astel. I agree that I think her Two Fingers were celestial in nature, and were likely located on the dark moon where Ranni cast aside her great rune. Then perhaps in response to her destroying her own body, they likely crashed down from the moon some time ago into the cathedral. Shortly after, I think her Two Fingers were probably rendered dormant after Radahn froze the stars, because Ranni implied that her fate was also frozen. Killing Radahn and setting the sky in motion likely roused the Two Fingers, which then realized Ranni's intentions and how far along her plan was. The Two Fingers then buried themselves underground to try and escape, perhaps by hiding from the stars or perhaps the dark moon. But Ranni had no problem finding them due to their connection, and with the Fingerslayer Blade freed herself from the Greater Will. And because the Fingerslayer Blade prevents the dead from from returning to the Erdtree, the fingers would forever remain fleshy and twisted, unlike the other inert Two Fingers we see in the game which seem to turn into wood.

[@mrcupcake2139]

I think what sets Ranni’s fate into motion is the players giving her the fingerslayer blade thus allowing her to… well slay the fingers. Also knowing that the other two fingers are located on top of the divine towers I think it’s fair to say that she brought her two fingers from the tower (where we find her body at the top of the Carian study and divine tower in Liurnia) to Manus Celes. And since we set her fate in motion by giving her the fingerslayer blade and killing Radahn (and releasing the stars) she can then kill her two fingers and start the age of stars (instead of having to abide by the fingers and follow the elden ring).

[@sofacoin]

While we're used to broad caves in games, IRL caves often twist and turn in all three dimensions- a lot like the one the fingers are in. It could be that these two have been hidden here for a long time!

[@BlueAsterismSolstice]

Most likely, that entire part of the map is where Renalla took Ranni to meet her own moon. Ranni having this meeting made her more qualified to be an Empyrean, with or without flesh as she had a source for her own order and would even confirm she has one. Manus Celeste was likely the heart most root to those of the moon orders, in turn in wedding with Radagon it would be disingenuous to not incorporate it with the Church of Vows. Before she was queen of Caria, Rennala found her full moon and dazzled what's now Raya Lucaria with it into its place as ruler, suggesting two separate lives for her. All around Manus Celeste if we still had any doubts, are multiple ruins suggesting a people of the moon. and sorcerers who can fade around like Ranni can. Radagon marrying Rennala, it would be weird if she kept secrets from him. Radagon seeing first hand Carian faith being one with its brilliance would only take inspiration further of the concepts of union which would one day reach his son Miquella, who would further the concepts with his own contagious shine.

[@TheVirtual3]

I figured Ranni stashed her fingers underground to keep them from connecting to the stars. Then when Radahn died, a meteor crashed in the Manus Celes opening the path to the fingers that Ranni had sealed off

[@anhdunghisinh]

That explained why Iji suddenly did such a rash move, imprisoning Blaidd despite he seems still sane enough to continue supporting Ranni. Now the 2 fingers can report their treacherous to the stars, logically, Blaidd now isn't trustworthy anymore

[@xopher314]

What happens if you visit Manus Celes prior to Radan's death? IDK if there's a way to get up there without a no-clip hack though.

[@DanielRamirez-vb2ix]

was thinking the same thing👍

[@Ziostorm]

I don't believe its possible without clipping

[@DanielRamirez-vb2ix]

@@Ziostorm Thats one very important fact for your crash landing theory, if the only way to get to manus celes is through rannis quest and the balefull shadow appearing only when you ve progressed through ansel river which is the next location for rannis questline:)

[@xopher314]

@@Ziostorm I found a video where a guy abuses the stake of Marika at the top of the plateau to get up there early. Dies in the range of it due to poison and it revived him on top prior to Radan's death. It's all the same and you can even give Ranni the ring before having it physically because there's no requirement to actually have the item. You can just trigger the ending of her quest immediately.

[@minerman60101]

It might make sense if Ranni being an Empyrean had something to do with her two fingers being weird, but the ones in the Isolated Divine Tower are for Malenia (probably for her and Miquella) so that goes out the window. Maybe it could be that all the others died, but Ranni's were able to live for longer? Also, one thing that might discount the fingers crashing into Manus Celes during the events of the game is whether the model of the church as seen from outside the Moonlight Altar is dynamic. Clearly the model in Moonlight Altar is fixed, since the Two Fingers are dead with Ranni on them regardless of whether you've progressed anything; the game just doesn't think you'll be able to get there without the questline.

[@elijahcafazzo-joyette8226]

With how all the fingers atop the Divine Towers seem to be wooden, yet the one’s in Roundtable Hold and Manus Celes seem to be flesh, its possible that the wooden ones are puppets of sorts. Perhaps the real fingers exist below the ground, or are in some way obscured. Maybe Ranni killed or destroyed the one atop the Liurnian Divine Tower, but knew or learned that the real two fingers she was bound to were elsewhere. As to why she would destroy the puppet? Maybe because she wanted to hide her discarded body there, and leaving them behind presented the possibility of the Two fingers locating it, or maybe it was just an act of defiance. (I was going to suggest that it could also have to do with Ranni being an Empyrean, but Malenia’s tower still has a pair and if Miquella shares the tower with her like Morgott and Mohg do, its likely a feature unique to Ranni’s tower.) As for the Three fingers theory for Ranni’s fingers, Zullie made a video covering it. The model has no third finger and is likely intended to be vague.

[@Hazel-II]

I find it really weird that alter is the only place you can see both moons. Its also the only place where the dark moon appears which is arguably weirder

[@xiggles]

In his video, "What it takes to become an Empyrian" (Amazing video btw), The Tarnished Archeologist speculates that Ranni was arranged to be married to Godwyn. If we follow that thread, and given the Church of Vows was built to conduct and honor the union of Rennala and Radagon, what if the church of Manus Celes was built in anticipation of Ranni and Godwyn's marriage? It exists as a reminder of her duty decided for her by the Fingers and the Golden Order. With that purpose in mind, it makes sense she would block off the entrance until a potential consort came along- one that _she_ would choose.

[@aceaces4616]

For player perspective killing Radahn was recent but maybe in game years pased.Maybe our journey was century long cuz tarnished cannot get old or die.Sry for my bad English it's not my main language.

[@zeroblackzx]

I just realized that although Seluvis made a completely identical doll body for Sellen, Ranni's doll body is nothing like that. Ranni has a very obvious, doll-like, four-armed doll body. I wonder why she didn't have Seluvis create a new body that resembled her original one, or at least create a doll that was not blue and four armed.

[@rasenpapi5653]

I dont think Adula was acting on instinct moreso acting on orders. this point in ranni's quest is after she acknowledges the fact she has to turn on everything. all of her closest allies besides us(who already made it passed Adula once at the 3 sisters) Have died or disappeared. Ranni probably ordered Adula to attack anyone who dared come close no matter what knowing that we, her greatest subject, can AND already have bested Adula once. Take it as one last test of worthiness since this is the point where we officially become her partner and put the ring on her finger.

[@MrMcastellano]

Hey , I like you , been subscribed since elden ring came out , like a lot of your videos :. But please tell me you didn’t mean the thing you’re looking forward to the most is a “a new ending?” .. if that’s truly genuine then you gotta stop worrying about what ur gonna say on KZbin and use your imagination.. I wanna see the world we been in the past prime and new bosses and gear anything but a new ending.. please fromsoft don’t waste a second of your time on another ending ❤

[@viperrrgg]

Idk I'm probably wrong but the fingerslayer blade just looks so similar to the sacred relic sword, but as if it is broken or unfinished. Since the sacred relic sword is radagon and is wielded by the Elden Beast, who is the fingerslayer blade and how do they hold the power to kill the two fingers? The only person that comes to mind for me is the Gloam eyed Queen since they held the rune of death and were likely a emperyrian, but that would go against the idea of Melina being the same Gloam Eyed Queen, but at the same time the fingerslayer blade is made from a corpse and let's say Melina was killed by Maleketh it could be her emperyrian corpse it is fashioned from. But then again there are many things still unknown, like who was supposed to wield the Fingerslayer blade? Astel? A Dragon Kin Soldier? Or maybe even a Mimic? There are so many things in the underground that could have wielded it, but let's say it is Astel, their powers seem to be similar to the Elden beast like the nebula like attack but different and almost uncontrolled, possibly the fingerslayer blade was meant for a older or more mature version of Astel.

[@b33lze6u6]

the people of nokron made and were meant to wield it, just like they made all the mimic tears, kin soldiers etc

[@viperrrgg]

@@b33lze6u6 I mean like a chosen champion of nokron, like who specifically? They made all these beings to create an army that was possibly comparable to the strength of the Elden Beast and its followers, like unless there was multiple fingerslayer blades who would have wielded the blade?

[@b33lze6u6]

@@viperrrgg they were doing tons of shit to try and subvert the golden order, there isnt some dragonborn named champion that was gonna use the blade, the reason its in storage in the first place is because its "only usable by someone whos destined to" as per its item description

[@viperrrgg]

@@b33lze6u6 ok that makes sense. Still odd how Nokron created it without purpose or even being able to even know if it worked. The fact that it states it doesn't work for those "without a fate" means that someone like the tarnished would never be able to use it since we can cause so many different endings and there is no set ending. The fact that Ranni sends us to go get it and even knew about its ability means that the people of the Nokron must have used it to seal the fate of their Eternal City thus who I wonder who did the deed of killing a finger of some kind, like even if we don't know who it might even be I want to know or even where this dead finger could even be since it is too unlikely that the Eternal City just said fuck it we're gonna make a weapon that maybe might be could kill a finger and seal the fate of this city, it just seems unlike them since most of their creations seem to have some purpose but typically fail, like the mimics were meant to make a lord of some kind, the dragonkin soldiers were meant to try and mimic the ancient dragons. Just the fingerslayer blade was meant to be a fuck it? Let's make a weapon that can piss off the Greater Will royally, since that just makes no sense unless they killed a two fingers I doubt they would just make it because, and since the fate of the Eternal City was basically sealed because of this weapon they probably had one success in killing a finger and I wonder who and maybe where said finger is?

[@dancreary3340]

Regarding the dragon, from the day Vyke stole his girl, he had sworn an unceasing vendetta against simps, which would naturally put him at odds with many of Ranni's associates, and indeed, many denizens of the lands between.

[@mouaz670]

The finger slaying blade looks very similar to the sacred relic sword, especially the hand guard which is basically Radagons torso

[@noireweiss762]

My best take for the cathedral itself: since the statues hold swords that (at least at a glance) look kind of familiar to the great swords the carian queens use as a betrothal gift, maybe this was, were weddings took place. Would fit with the game since we're basically going there to put a ring on our blue god-wife to be. as for it's state, I can and want to believe that it was destroyed by falling stars, just long before the start of the game, maybe about the same rough timeframe Radagon left Renalla. I find it hard to believe that ranni spaced her fingers to be free of their influence without anyone objecting to it and then crash them into a cathedral and murder them for good measure. I think she did hid them there, basically holding them hostage to perform her ritual atop her tower. Later on near the end of her quest I think she comes back to them to kill them and completely free herself of their influence, which is why they look relatively fresh as opposed to any other pair we find. Ranni's ending sets everyone essentially free of the golden order while she goes on that star-searching journey or whatever, something she would not have been able to do while under their influence, on the other hand, killing them while the order is still in relatively full power would've just marked her as a traitor to it. as for how that hole came to be... if we're not gonna question how the gigantic star-skull scorpions from space that shoot meteors by opening portals to the void are always and only found deep underground whiel their larvae state is found in craters (and one mine), so let's also not question as to how that hole exactly formed. I can believe that it was originally a crater from whatever destroyed the place and ranni just dug up a little more to have a proper place to hide her fingers, I don't see them climbing out of there anytime soon and no one sane jumping down there to look, especially with to door-dragon set to "attack on sight". They being down their for a while would make sense with the surrounding flora in the last chamber. Tl;Dr: Cathedral was maybe a place for royal weddings, was destroyed way before the game, fingers were hid there to not incriminate ranni, she came back to kill them after we are basically done with her whole plan. She did not plan for us to come here after all

[@TheActualMrLink]

Ranni: “I sayeth this unto mine Two Fingers: fucketh off.”

[@SocraTetris]

The overgrowth could have happened before the stars began moving, and much of it remained or re-grew. Vines are pretty hardy plants, and as an open-world game with who knows how many day/night cycles occur canonically. Every sit at a grace or a return to the (magic/fake) roundtable hold takes like half a day. I like this theory, and so i've decided to subscribe to it. I had though Radahn wasn't too into Ranni's plan and was trying to thwart it before. I like the idea that he was supporting his sister to set her fate free from the Greater Will much better

[@jackreacher7495]

I think that the Wraiths were once the citizens of Liurnia who worshipped the moon. I think that they were a normal people until the Shattering - because the Laskyar Ruins, where many of them are, have a portal that goes straight to the front gate of the academy. And because they're wraiths, perhaps they were the product of Liurnia's people being destroyed and tortured by the Cuckoos, but because no one can die and they're not being reborn in Erdtree Burial, they're being twisted by time and resentment into these pseudo-living dead who use the undeparted souls of their fellows in self-defense, like spells.

[@seratoxin3825]

people keep saying no one can die in The Lands Between but that's entirely wrong. people die. there's no truth to the claim that there is no death in The Lands Between.

[@jackreacher7495]

@@seratoxin3825 You can't just say shit without at least trying to back it up. Everything else in the game disagrees with you vehemently, so what's your argument?

[@antonironstag5085]

​@@seratoxin3825death as a concept is varied in the lands between. There's destined death, true death and death blight

[@seratoxin3825]

@@jackreacher7495 lol no, everything in the game disagrees with YOU. all throughout the game, we see death. Lanya, Irina, Yura, Diallos, Alexander, Rogier, Ensha, etc., etc., etc. they all die scripted deaths. when you kill Radahn, Jerren even talks about his defeat explicitly as his DEATH. Gostoc talks about how Godrick "met his end". when you kill Ensha, Gideon says he's "dead and gone forevermore." anyone claiming there's no death in The Lands Between obviously never played the game.

[@seratoxin3825]

@@antonironstag5085 yes but to say "people can't die" is just absurd and objectively wrong

[@UmbraDiSol]

The fingers appear almost woodlike when decaying/dead. I think they're literally fingers of the erdtree, roots that grow up from the ground and become ambassadors of it's will. Of course. The tree changes/is changed based on who controls it, say from Crucible to Erdtree.

[@Feoremar]

I think the Fingers were hanging out in the Cathedral, like Miriel, but when Ranni & her dragon came knocking they tried hiding/digging their way to safety while Ranni chased them down and messed them up. I think their deformed shape is just a result of them dying/melting from the fingerslayer blade. There's always mention of her following "The Dark Path of the Empyrean", which is an odd thing to say about a caste of holy people meant to be elevated to godhood as Marika's successor. Judging by the massive ruins of the Grand Cloister, I think the "Dark path of the Empyrean" is more like a pilgrimage path an empyrean walks, deep underground, and up to the Cathedral of Manus Celes, (the Hand(s) of Star(s)/Fate?), to accept their position. But as Ranni is defying the FIngers that chose her, and intends to kill them, so she sends us through the Dark Path ourselves to distract the Fingers from her just flying in on a dragon. The only other Empyreans of the age are Malenia, who might've met the blind swordsman who mentored her on this path through the Lake of Rot, and Miquella, who maybe found & was inspired by the Nox below, the ancestral followers above in the ruined labyrinth (maybe an old part of the pilgrimage?), and the ancient dynast ruins of Uhl and Grand Cloister. Marika herself is a Numen empyrean of the old eternal cities. If the Church of Vows is a symbol of the unions of the house Radagon/Marika/Erdtree and Caria/Moon, maybe Manus Celes was a symbol of the union between the Ancient Dynast/tree worshipers, and the Numen of the Eternal Cities, tying themselves to the fates of the Stars/Hand/Fingers?

[@AnselOrasKons]

WEST COAST LIURINIANS ON TOP🗣⬆💯

[@dexmerx3425]

Most likely this is where Ranni's Two Fingers has always been located, unless she moved them here a long time ago, since the hole and cave seems to be man made. Either way this is where her fingers were and where it's been operating against her. She knows of this location but needs the necessary weapon to kill her two fingers, which she does, so there can be no restrictions against her when she does what she does in her ending.

[@Zero2Manic]

Amazing video. Thank you for the content. I always thought the fingers where chilling in the church, and once we finish a point in the quest line, it dug its self there to hide from Ranni heance broken fingers and the tunnel being so different. idk just a random thought lol

[@QuestionableObject]

I kinda feel like the two fingers were holed up in the cathedral. We needed to kill Radahn to blast open the path to the eternal city where the finger slayer blade was kept, that's really all that needed to happen with the star-fall. I think the decayed state of Manus Celeste is consistent with the decay of all the other ruins, the church of vows is in pretty rough shape too after all. All the star shards I think are more a case of why Manus Celeste was built where it was, the moonlit plateau seeming to have a close connection to the stars and the moon (you can see both of the moons clearly even with the Erdtree trying to blot them out) and all of the rays of starlight, its connection so strong that what you usually need a special astrolabe to collect in other places just falls from the sky in droves. I also think that Ranni just flat out wasn't able to get to the plateau until we clear the path, defeating the Blaidd shadow and possibly also the Astel dwelling beneath the plateau. The two fingers, having likely sensed that its last hitman had just been iced and Ranni was coming for it, freaks the hell out and just digs its way into the ground in a futile attempt to hide. When we find Ranni's two fingers its actually facing away from the way we came in, its digits pressed up against the wall as though it were trying to crawl away from the approaching Ranni only to have the curse mark brutally carved into its back, the deformities in its shape and colouration feeling more like a result of its likely *agonizing* death throes. And having done her deed she sits herself down on the rotting carcass of her former jailkeeper and waits for us to come to her if we A: are intelligent enough to figure out where the ring is and B: want to take her up on her plan to usurp and remove the golden order.

[@mattb6616]

in japanese it suggests the empyreans are already essentially gods. It's 神人, "shinjin", meaning a person of god-like nobility or god-like power, literally the characters for God and Human together. An Empyrean, most literally, is "God-person". In Japanese Christian traditions, 神人 is used to refer to Jesus Christ's status as simultaneously a man and a god. This is why the Empyreans' children of mixed lineage are "Demigods", because only one parent is a god.

[@VictorHugo-he7ol]

I have a doubt that probably is nothing but is starting to be annoying to me. Every empyrean is basically a vessel for an Outer God/Entity (Miquella-St Trinna, Malenia-God of Scarlet Rot, Melina-Gloom Eyed Queen) so... Ranni is the only exception to this?

[@walruss106]

I'd assumed all the Fingers came from space long ago, whenever the primeval rain of stars occurred. The other fingers in the divine towers sit on top of meteor chunks like the ones you see under the fallenstar beasts, and "manus celes" translates roughly to "heavenly hand." I assume this is where some Carian ancestor (Renna??) called down the rain of stars from their vision. This...er...this theory has problems - were the divine towers already there and the fingers just happened to crash into them? If so did Ranni's fingers "miss?" Highly speculative, but here goes nothing: The Founding Rain of Stars wrecked Farum Azula and maimed Placidusax's lost god. Her hand fell to earth in two parts - the larger part of the hand smashing into the great tree, and the two fingers crashing into Manus Celes. This rain of stars also brought all other kinds of new life including Astel, and maybe even The Elden Beast. As Lands Between Natives continued their various factional wars the Three Fingers came to host a vengeful version of the giants' fire god after his defeat. The Two Fingers, originally revered in Manus Celes, were eventually appropriated by Radagon and clippings were "planted" or "grafted" in the pre-existing divine towers, as tools of the erdtree/Greater Will. They now make up part of the root system of the tree, and (Again I know I'm way off the reservation here), the surveillance network for the Divine Beast. It does seem like the Two Fingers era of the Erdtree comes with Radagon's ascendancy and the birth of the Golden Order - fairly late in the game's history timeline. They're also associated with secrets and surveillance. This explicitly puts the Divine Beast at odds with Ranni - the Beast using the vast surveillance network provided by multiple two fingers to hunt her, and her avoiding detection until she can murder its spies.

[@seratoxin3825]

some things to point out; 1. i don't think there's anything that says Ranni was chosen to be an Empyrean. we don't know what an Empyrean is. she most likely was born one, since we know Malenia was, but i suppose it could be something that one could either be born as, or become, since we don't know what it is. 2. Ranni did not organize the Night of Black Knives - at least not alone - we know Rykard helped, it's maybe implied that Marika had something to do with it (possibly was the primary conspirator), and of course the Black Knifeprint is what made Rogier think Ranni was behind "the dire plot", and its item description says it conceals the truth, so she most likely wasn't the one truly behind it. 3. maybe NOW someone has to be a shardbearer to meet with The Two Fingers, but before The Shattering there were no shardbearers on the topic of the Fingers... personally, i'm thinking Radahn sent Ranni's Two Fingers into space to prevent Ranni from killing them, so killing Radahn brought them crashing back down

[@cassiusvictus7838]

Best guess, the two fingers hid itself because they knew Ranni was trying to kill it. Ranni did something with the stars to reveal the fingers location, but Radahn blocked it and after he dies whatever spell she cast went through and destroyed the temple revealing the location.

[@bartmongiello]

Dude, look at the way Ranni’s fingers look and then compare them to the way the three fingers looks! They are jointed and shaped exactly the same! Plus you can clearly see there’s a part of the fingers that seems to be hidden underground. Like a third finger. It also explains why Blaidd went crazy instead of just turning on Ranni like any normal empyrean’s shadow would. (As they would have you believe anyway based on the lore descriptions). I’ve thought it since I first laid eyes on them.

[@jonnyben6820]

Perhaps the fingers were chilling uptop until the stars began to move, so then realizing they were in danger, they began digging their way underground. Maybe even trying to make it to the underground rivers to hide? Maybe they asked the Astel to protect them? Maybe even the dragon? Which would explain why their back is turned because they were mid dig, giving Ranni the perfect opportunity to finish them off. The frantic digging may be why the fingers are broken. Or maybe even the sudden release of pent up destiny and time warped them, but since Ranni occupies a doll, she was unnaffected. Renalla has basically given up, and would not have otherwise accomplished anything significant during the time that was frozen, so she too was unnaffected. Also weird though how it looks like there may be a third finger. My personal assumption is that the 3 fingers and 2 fingers were all one hand in the past, until they had a disagreement, or different opinions on how to interpret the greater will, or maybe even began listening to different outer gods, so they split. 2 and 3 makes five. Not having seen the other 2 fingers though, its hard to speculate. Further evidence, if you can call it that, is how you use fowled foot items. They have 3 toes, but you bite off one... perhaps there is something symbolic about losing a finger. Back on track though. The weird sense of a significant amount of time passing could once again be fate finally being released, and catching up so to speak. So what seems like days to us, may have actually been [however much time passes between radahn haulting the stars and us freeing them]. Ranni may have JUST killed her 2 fingers, but that pent up time rapidly passed leading to the start of decay, but not quite wood/pretrification yet. Also, since Ranni in a sense died before she killed her 2 fingers, they could have experienced a physical change when that connection was severed. Thats why I love elden ring, the little amount of lore and implications you string together only leads to more questions. Its too ambiguous to know for sure, but the evidence suggests any number of compelling possibilities.

[@thomashooper2451]

"Manus Celes" being another way of saying "celestial hands" suggests, to me, that the cathedral was built for Ranni's Two Fingers. The Greater Will may have wanted to keep tabs on her and Radagon before he returned to Leyndell and married Marika, and setting up shop in Liurnia is the easiest way to do that. I've wondered why this one is so much bigger than the other Two Fingers we see around the world, either dead on the Divine Towers or still moving in the Roundtable Hold. Is there a special set of Two Fingers set aside specifically for all matters relating to Empyreans?

[@rasputin2750]

is it me, or does the fingerslayer blade look a lot like the sword made out of Radagon by the Elden Beast

[@stormbringer7773]

And keep in mind, the Fingerslayer Blade is made of a corpse. Just like how the Sacred Relic Sword is made out of Radagon's corpse.

[@420PraiseIt]

I really don't know how is it so hard for lore makers to think lately... Empyreans have to be women, its a matriarchic society everywhere. We can see it in carians (only princesses are mentioned, queen, three sisters etc), in the nox and with marika. The reason why radahn/god/godwhyn etc were never chosen is this. Empyreans are Ranni (female), rotussy (female) and Miquella ( he possessed the trait of marika to be both a male and a female a la alchemical fashion).

[@cryptofacts4u]

What if the reason the fingers appear dead, but still bleed.....is because Ranni only HALF died! Maybe They're like her, dead in body, alive in spirit

[@jkbell87]

Awesome theory. I like to think all of the two fingers came form space at some point. Just makes you wonder if Radahn froze the stars before Ranni was born. The mushrooms also look like the ones you see on the ground near ghosts in the game. Maybe her two fingers had some connection to spirits.

[@GREATGAIWAIN]

I think it's called Manus Celes because that theory is definitely a reach for the stars. Jokes aside, no, I don't think Ranni's two fingers crashed there after Radahn died. The foliage and mushroom growths you described are the least interesting way to debunk that. The tunnel shape suggests an attempt to disorient and mislead. It was hidden down there on purpose. Also the obvious one... It has the death rune carved into it which means it had to be killed on the night of black knives. Whether they suffered alongside Ranni's body Stand style, receiving feedback damage or the Assassin's targeted it. Ranni's original body IS found on the tower afterall. Where her fingers would be. At the bare minimum, we can conclude she was killed in body there along with her fingers, then hid the body in a maze-like tunnel in a hard to access ruin that she has dominion over and then put a dragon in front of it for extra protection. As for how the body is still bleeding, either it died in soul similar to Godwyn, we don't understand finger decay rates and life/death cycle or some secret third thing that doesn't contradict what we already know.

[@dukeofburgerz5225]

Could it be possible Ranni's Two Fingers burrowed their way down there. The Cathedral could have been built as a symbol of Unification like the Church of Vows, and had Ranni's Two Fingers stationed there. Then after Ranni decided to split from the Two Fingers, she launched some sort of celestial attack on the cathedral. The Two Fingers burrowed underground to avoid it or Ranni realized that it wasn't enough and began the search for the Finger Slayer Blade. That could be why it's such a strange looking cave and why so much of the "hand" is exposed on them.

[@TrueJunebug]

A couple things. First, I disagree with the assumption that Manus Celes was made to commemorate Renala and Radagon's marriage. My guess is that it was there far longer than that and has nothing to do with the erdtree at all. Considering it's location on the Moonlight Alter it's likely a church created by the Carians to worship the moon. The church's was likely damaged in the war between Liurnia and Leyndell, then abandoned after Renala and Radagon's marriage, explaining it's state of disrepair. The Church of Vows then would share the same Carian architecture to symbolize the union of the moon and the erdtree. I also think Ranni's two fingers were also down in the tunnel for a long time. Either they were put there by Ranni to block them off from the stars, preventing them from steering her fate, or they were attempting to hide from her. Either way the cave was clearly there for a while based on the mushrooms.

[@LegendOfSolidus]

I miss when the "piece-together" type of storytelling in these games actually made sense 🤣 this game's lore is the most nonsensical yet, absolutely nothing makes sense and don't think about it. Still love this game though, gameplay is the best it's ever been. But they really need to simplify their stories again, like Demon's and DS1 stories were pretty much perfect.

[@tossapat027]

I think Cathedral of Manus Celes it like Valyria a Old Capital in Game of Thrones Great Homeland of Dragons were destroyed by an unspecified nature.

[@librarian4life]

@ziostorm is it not logical to presume, at least as a counterpoint to your theory, that is was Astel who crash landed into Manus Celes and not Ranni's two fingers? Then it burrowed far deep underground (supported by the winding tunnel) and some natural cave-in simply blocked the rest of its path to where we fight it. Astel is proven in the lore to come from the stars. Speculate as you will as to what this would ultimately mean and forgive me if someone else has brought this up.

[@GiordanoBruno42]

I think the fingers represent different gods. The things we call outer gods are ultimately just gods like the greater will, but they get relegated to the outer God status because the Greater will dominates the current age. The fingers in roundtable are the fingers of order, representin the greater will. The three fingers below the capitol represent frenzyflame, and so the chaos God. Ranni's fingers represent the unnamed outer God of the stars. (Maybe the primeval current). At one time these different fingers were a part of the hands of the One Great, which was the Brahman of this cosmology, an originating and complete God of everything. This would imply that at one time, chaos, order, the formless, the fell, death, undeath, spirit, the primeval current, the sun and the moon were under a single grand and unified godhead.