Zipline PROPS Look CRAZY! So We MADE Them | Free STL Download

We reverse engineer FPV props from the Mark Rober "Zipline" video. Follow along as we design, 3D print, and fly (eventually) these crazy looking propellers.
Download the FREE 3MF and STL files here:
f.io/SNpuKg5Y
Fusion 360 Software free trial:
www.autodesk.com/products/fus...
Prop Balancer: amzn.to/41N6mG6
Putty (weight) : amzn.to/3omCbHs
PLA: amzn.to/3MWWV2L
PETG: amzn.to/40sOejM
Printers:
Bambu P1P (New Favorite)
us.store.bambulab.com/product...
Prusa MK3s and now MK4s (The OG Beast)
www.prusa3d.com
Ender 3 (Affordable, yet great)
amzn.to/41lZnEq
---------------------------------
0:00 - Intro
0:49 - Design
1:41 - PLA Props
2:23 - PETG Props
2:56 - Annealed Props
6:54 - Flat Printed Props
7:33 - Flight?
---------------------------------
Gear we use:
**Some of the following are affiliate links and pay a very small commission but do not cost you any extra...
Transmitters:
Hollyland Mars 4k here:
amzn.to/3Cx4QOA
Main Camera:
Sony FX3 - amzn.to/3MTVdvm
Sony A7iii - amzn.to/3MSYn2C
Lenses:
Sony 20mm f1.8 (Full Frame) - amzn.to/3O7h5oe
Sony 70-200mm f4 (Full Frame) - amzn.to/3mNj99c
Sony 35mm f1.8 (Full Frame) - amzn.to/3xUngH4
Irix 45mm Cine (Sony FF)
Camera Bag:
ThinkTank Retrospective Camera Backpack
Rotation 22L-50L Camera Backpack
www.thinktankphoto.com/?rfsn=...
Drones:
iFlight Nazgul Evoque - amzn.to/3BnDiJv
DJI Avata - amzn.to/3e3KiE5
GepRC CineLog 35HD - pyrodrone.com/products/geprc-...
Shendrones Thicc
(These are HD drones and require a pair of HD Goggles, and a Controller)
GoPro Hero 10 Black (for FPV shots) - amzn.to/3b0YV9e
Lighting:
Sun - Amazon hasn't purchased it yet...
Colbor CL60R
link.colborlight.com/CliffKaj...
Nanlite Pavotubes
amzn.to/3QiQWEZ
Godox VL300 - amzn.to/3Qs1QZ8
Audio:
Rode NTG series
Software:
Davinci Resolve
Adobe Premiere Pro CC
Adobe After Effects
Photoshop CC (Thumbnail):

[@CliffKajun]

UPDATES: 1. Fusion tutorial on props is up: (We went with toroidal since they are the most complex) kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3uzfpqOfNyUq9k 2. There will be a follow up video including resin printing, salt remelting and other methods mentioned. 3. There will also be a live stream to cover some of the comments and take advice. The feedback and tips have been amazing! Thank you for all the advice! We will be going through the comments again very soon!

[@nightwaves3203]

Try silent computer fans that have a band around the circumference of the blade tips. Should be a simple modification of the shaft connection.

[@markortiz1506]

Two things: I am getting an injection molding machine and might be able to work with you. Second: would you be interested in an conversation on a novel application concept that I have using a drone?

[@williamchamberlain2263]

0:15 Zipline's props are streamlined, have a long stem for a smaller counterweight and interference with the blade-generated vortices, and look like a larger angle between the blades. 7:57 yours aren't quieter because you've missed at least two design parameters that Zipline used.

[@kyanhluong]

Can we even get our hold on that design pramater or zipline managed to witheld them from public pretty well

[@jelloshot]

yeah, i think the zipline folks mentioned wingtip vortices as a contributor to noise, and the ends of the blades on this one are not very optimized.

[@gearyae]

Yeah, you definitely can't trial-and-error these into silence with any amount of parameters. They likely developed the Zipline props with CFD to do something like destructive interference to cancel out noise.

[@TheChzoronzon]

oh, more bs... *sigh

[@Y1001]

>you've missed at least two design parameters that Zipline used. what are they?

[@BrandinoTheFilipino]

NOT THE SPACE X EXPLOSION 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@CliffKajun]

Haha, good catch! It happened the same day we edited this. I had to throw it in there 🤣

[@Cypher81]

😅

[@gabrielpaddock6305]

Do you think they'll have Big Bird on that flight this time

[@gmanvaca8269]

The creator of APC props was a RC plane guy at my club in the 90’s. We all were part of his product testing efforts fun times. He made them in his garage using a resin molding process. The 3D printed stuff today is really just proof of concept and mold making blank capability of which we didn’t have in the 90’s. The zip line prop concept should generate just as much thrust as a similar surface area standard prop as long as turbulence from the leading blade isn’t affecting the trailing blade. I will say that the foil shape at the root of the blade was found to have a large impact on the prop performance at various RPMs. The blade tip also can affect performance especially if the blade flexes under load. The APC props have a unique root foil and rigidity for a reason. Each prop use / profile be it Pylon Racing, aerobatics, general sport flying evolved into a unique foil design due to the performance differences and speeds the aircraft we’re running at. Drone props are massively ripped off designs in many ways to each other by the typical Chinese manufacturer. I haven’t really seen any drone props that are really engineered to a level we see with Zipline based in California or even what we did in the 90’s with our club member who created APC props in California 😆. Is there a need for real foil design in drone props? Oh heck YES!!! The trash I see being run today on drones is like our wood hand carved props we flew way back in the day😆.

[@CliffKajun]

That's very interesting, and I'm sure it would have been a cool experience! 3D printing really is just a great proof of concept/prototype medium with some limited production uses. Makes a lot of sense. Most of our fpv drone props are extremely flexible (with the exception of our cinelifters) which is great for crashing, but I'm sure it is also a tradeoff in performance. I'll have to look into the APC props a little more. Thank you for the detailed explanation, it's really helpful 🤘🏼 Lol, this is so true. The copy and paste method of manufacturing is getting out of hand 😅 I'd love to see this become more mainstream. You've sparked my curiosity and I'm definitely digging into this soon. Thanks for the info and detailed comment! 😎🤘🏼

[@DavidCook42]

I love APC Props!

[@stillededge]

Ah, also...on this design we are more than DOUBLING the rotational mass for no additional lift. Who's tried just running props with more surface area? Assuming we are going to sacrifice for "quiet"...how much is too much sacrifice? You guys are going to drag me down this rabbit hole. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@stevec7596]

APC had a terrible tip airfoil....and I knew Fred too. We raced giant scale.

[@azatavazov5984]

a very large range of speeds does not allow to be a good propeller for drones, it’s just that somewhere it’s better, somewhere worse, in general, we will still get the same average value, if we do not take into account a certain category.

[@slickfast]

PLA is not the weakest. It's stronger than PETG and ABS. The reason people like PETG is for durability, which is quantified by the Izod notch toughness test. The issue you're really running into with the orientation you're using though is inter-layer adhesion. FDM prints are highly anisotropic, which means different material properties in different directions. I'd recommend SLA printing for prop prototypes as they are far closer to isotropic. They're also far higher resolution to capture the propeller airfoil most accurately. Good luck

[@jonchall8]

I suspect PETG has higher through-layer axis strength than PLA but your point still stands.

[@sligit]

Yeah the layer binding in PETG can be very high. Like PLA though it's rather brittle. For FDM I'd probably go with PC for this application, but it would be interesting to see how some of the less brittle resins hold up too.

[@TheAxebeard]

Resin printing is going to explode the second the motor starts.

[@juliancook3088]

The second it started printing up I knew this would be an issue. Granted lying down it would have lots of supports but on it's side you should be able to get only supports on the very edges of the blades and that's much eaiser to fix/sand. Also nothing stopping him splitting the design into 2 or three parts that lock together reducing the supports even further.

[@tehKap0w]

@@TheAxebeard depends on the resin ie: Siraiya Tech Strong

[@atomicsmith]

My take from the zipline video was that the two blades were also not identical. This meant that the sound each makes is at a different frequency so they don’t reinforce each other. Might be something to try for V2.

[@truegret7778]

My initial thoughts (after designing, printing, testing, iterate) is that you are printing with stacked layer being normal to the axis of rotation. Hence the instantaneous destruction or RUD (Rapid Unplanned Destruction). You realize this at about 3 minutes into the video. I printed both the TriLobe and DuoLobe (3 blades and 2 blades) for a DJI Mini laying flat, slowly, 0.12mm layer height, without supports (sliced with both Cura 5.3.1 and Prusa 2.4.0-alpah-alpha6). I tried PLA, PLA+, PLA+CarbonFiber, ABS, and NinjaFlex (TPU). PLA+ worked best for me.

[@oculicious]

Rapid unscheduled disassembly *

[@MotoOdissea]

Amazing video! You could try to "cast" them using salt powder. If you powderize salt, print with 100% infill you can than press the props inside of a brick of salt ( in a pirex container) and remelt them to form a solid object made out of one single matrix of plastic....

[@unloveableandre]

Such a nice video. Well paced. And no stress, just someone trying and having fun. Great! Subscribed.

[@CliffKajun]

Thank you! I really appreciate the kind feedback, and welcome! 🤘🏼

[@BasementCreationsChannel]

Finally someone made those props, great work!

[@susansparlinghay1521]

Silent props… who would’ve ever thought you had great spirit through this 🎉 happy to see your creations

[@CliffKajun]

Haha right. Thank you!!

[@AmberVillwock-rz3zv]

One of our genius creative collaborators doing what they do best! Being creatively entertaining!💡

[@CliffKajun]

Hey! Thanks you 🙏😎

[@danflcworship8293]

your videos are off the hook! I dont know if they are more informative than they are just plain fun!

[@CliffKajun]

Hey Dan!! Thank you, that means a lot! We are really trying to lean into the fun side and hope people will join us for the chaos that likely follows 🤣

[@MontisTube]

Well shot and edited. Entertaining as hell! 😄

[@CliffKajun]

Thank you!! We had a blast putting this one together 😎🤘🏼

[@geauxracerx]

Could definitely make resin printed molds and diy injection molding set up with say a drill press and hydraulic press/jack. Maybe even silicone 2 part molds and epoxy🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Techkhamun]

Great video! Super interesting to see you going through all the different versions and also just taking something you’ve seen from a video and just making it happen! Who knows where prop designs will end up in 5 years!

[@CliffKajun]

Thank you!! I'll have to admit, this video was more for me than anyone lol. Making the video gave me the excuse to keep experimenting with different versions 😅. It is pretty exciting to see all the new designs. I seriously am considering picking up an injection mold 🤘🏼

[@mattcurtis6393]

Awesome video! Entertaining and informative too!

[@CliffKajun]

Hey!! Thank you 🙏

[@CliffKajun]

There's a quick "Easter Egg" related to something that happened today hidden in this video. Comment below the time stamp and what it is and I'll include your comment in the next video. Hint: It's a full clip, not something within a clip. Cheers 🤘🏼

[@manshenriksson]

Starship at 7:00! Found your channel today, underrated stuff 👍

[@MontisTube]

Yep, that boom was a nice touch!

[@CliffKajun]

Haha, nice work!! 😎 Thank you, that's really motivating!

[@CliffKajun]

Lol, I thought it would be a fun little detail 😅

[@rafaelontiveros1013]

try 3d printer resin it's much harder

[@nevertobereleased]

Love to see a vid of your prop’s design process. I use Onshape but Fusion is cool too. Thanks for sharing a fun video. I reckon a mould might work…? Cheers!

[@mono891031]

I think the stylized lines of the propeller help a lot, they are extremely balanced and the counterweight is flatter and longer

[@igorb8000]

When you have a working shape, you can create a mold with two components silicon rubber, and cast them with special a resin. I did some propellers using prochima sintofoam (it's similar to ABS when catalyzed) and i added some carbon filament inside the mold before putting resin

[@JoshuaRilliet]

Hi, for greater resistance have you tried putting UV resin on these propellers, applied with a brush so that it remains a thin layer I think it could strengthen the resistance?

[@sendguns]

Many tanks for the files, as I'll give it a try. Best - Michael

[@CliffKajun]

You're welcome! Have fun!! Cheers! Cliff

[@vicioustonez]

Mad props bro 😁👌

[@victorskrabe]

very good! Thanks for sharing!

[@justavian]

Could you not use off the shelf props, cut off and epoxied into a 3d printed hub? Or do the blades need to be shaped totally differently from standard ones? As others have said, the approach where you use 3d printing to make a mold might be the strongest option.

[@thesynthax7948]

Assuming you have the AMS accessory for your X1, you should go for that dissolvable support you were talking about. You don't have to print the entire support in it, just the "interface". You may not even need to put it in water, it should separate more cleanly from PETG than using PETG support material exclusively. As for molding, you could make resin molds with silicone, OR you could use an mSLA printer to print injection molds and build a little DIY injection molding machine from a couple drill presses and simple electronics.

[@paveldumitrescu7981]

I have designed and printed some 5" zipline-style props to compare against some other printed props for a project. I MSLA printed them in a mix of Siraya Tech Blu and Siraya Tech fast resin. The surface finish was good and they were almost balanced right of the print plate. So far they have managed to slowly ramp up to 23 000 rpm before exploding. I haven't tested the thrust yet but will soon. Just going off how much air they are blowing compared to regular props I assume it would be possible to fly on them but would need, on my 5" fpv quad, a throttle stop at about 70%. Maybe soon I will flight test them.

[@StephenJG1]

If we picture the Zipline-prop as a single unit being used in a tractor configuration so that one of the two offset blades is first being forward, does it matter which is advanced and which is trailing? This may be a stupid question but, when geese fly in V formation the trailing bird must be above to catch the pressure wave from it's leading bird. I imagine the second blade of the prop should trail behind to catch the wave to amplify the thrust, but if it does will this alter the acoustics or the performance?

[@mathiaszwirschitz2463]

Awesome Video, I really like your sound design. Can you tell me which song/sound you used for background music while printing/drawing. 2:10

[@brandonb417]

Are these props scalable, as in, can you scale them down and put them on smaller quads? Or does the aerodynamics get all weird when you scale them up or down?

[@ThouSirKingsly]

What about printing the prop and then coating it with fiberglass resin. I think it would make it a lot stronger

[@gppl77]

Have you tried resin printing those props? They do ABS-like resins for printing and the result doesn't have layering to weaken the design.

[@CliffKajun]

We haven't yet, but just ordered a new resin printer for the follow up video. Thanks!!

[@justintime5021]

​​​​​​​@@CliffKajun awesome! I really like sunlu nylon like resin. It's got a lot of flex to it. It can be a little bit challenging to print with since it's consistency while printing is pretty stretchy. But for something like this where it's small and there's not a lot of stress on the material while printing it would probably be perfect. The nylon (pa) like can be hard to come by so an abs like is a good alternative (I like the sunlu abs like) Just for the love of God don't use a standard resin like elegoo grey or something. They are way too brittle. You're going to need something a bit more specialized

[@MechanimalChief]

I was hoping someone mentioned this. I've been effectively 3d printing and using parts for professional projects since 2000, and although most of that time was utilizing FDM, I knew it was a deadend(layer weakness and detail/finish). The main reasons SLA was not utilized was a combo of price/availability and material quality. Not only has the price of it all plummeted in recent years, the materials have also come a long way. I now mostly use an Elegoo machine and water soluble resin, much easier to deal with than the alcohol stuff, but some of the more exotic and stronger resins are still alcohol based. You may need to try a few to find the best resin for this use, but if you do you may never go back to FDM. Especially if you can manage to print with little to no support structure, tricky but do-able, and produces the best 3d parts I've seen in decades.

[@cachepilll286]

try carbon fiber polycarbonate filament, really strong and easy to print with, just needs a hardened nozzle for the printer.

[@samlane1721]

So last year I was building a quad and I needed this very specific set of props but they were all sold out every where and I was at my wits end until my printer looked at me in that way and I was like screw it let’s give it a go and through all of my prop explosions I learned a good way to make them strong with out changing the physical features of the prop like what might happen when annealing them I learned I could buy large amounts of ca glue for cheep so $40 later I found my self dipping my props in a bowl of ca on my front porch and letting the sun cure them and after that I just balanced them and they flew amazing well amazing for props I made my self but they were reliable and I flew the final version I made for six months anyways I really hope that you can have the same success I did and you have definitely earned a subscribe from me as I feel your pain😂

[@WATCHMAKUH]

Nice! I'm glad you made this. I wonder if a 7-10" prop could be made for stealth long range drones.

[@CliffKajun]

Potentially. 10” would be better if they are durable enough. Oversized and slow makes a huge difference even with normal prop designs.

[@Gosuminer]

I think the best approach would be to use a 3D printed prop for making a mold which can be used to mold something more durable in one solid piece e.g. resin.

[@CliffKajun]

This is the way 👆🏼😎

[@KAREKINFPV]

Such a cool video! Is that chimera 7 used? It looks identical to the one i used to fly and then sold on fpv market place. Mainly because of the forward pushed gopro mount.

[@CliffKajun]

Hey! Thanks! Haha, yep that’s your old quad. It flies great with “real” props lol

[@KAREKINFPV]

@@CliffKajun ahh nice!! Im glad to see it doing some great work for you! 😀

[@55yxalaG]

I would assume that lower frequency is still an advantage in that lower frequency noise tends to be less obvious/dissipate better from far away outdoors, accomplishing the goal of being less noticeable to bystanders

[@magnusdanielsson2749]

You could print a mold and do a carbon fibre moulding. Easy Composites have a video on how to do it. The makes a bike brake lever in the vid.

[@harveylorenzedejesus2383]

HI Cliff! May I suggest that you lengthen the blades and make them wider. This would increase the surface area of lift and would reduce the rpm required for take off.

[@CliffKajun]

Hey! I think you are correct with this. We started designing them a little on the “stubby” side to make them easier and stronger when 3d printing. Our follow up video will go this route though. Cheers! 🤘🏼

[@OzFaxFlyer]

What is the puff of vapour on your right at 9.49?

[@simonbroadley6582]

The offest seems to be the key, have you tried 3 offest props? I would also space them out so they are not evenly spaced to lower the resonant frequency.

[@CliffKajun]

I have not, but this is an interesting idea. I'll look into it. Thanks!

[@hohhan1978]

You definitely will benefit from resin printing on this. Better surface and uniform performance of its materials in all axis. And yeah obviously not with standart resin it will be even more brittle)

[@CliffKajun]

Yea that seems to be the general consensus. Any resin you recommend? Thanks 🤘🏼

[@user-nd5co8lq4t]

what if blowing hot air on prop while printing instead of putting them in a fryer after printing. or put your printer in an oven.

[@pawanv86]

Great effort, I think the main facor in making these props quieter goes towards first spinning them slower. If you've ever built a giant 15inch prop quad you'd know how quiet they are compared to a 5 inch - just because they spin the prop at a much much slower rate to begin with they move all the noise and wasted energy lower down in the spectrum

[@CliffKajun]

Thank you! You have a valid point. Larger props are much quieter in most cases. We are going to do a follow up video where we will test 15" (ish) props. Should be interesting 😅🔥

[@handy-capoutdoors4063]

If you want to do injection molding you can 3d print a mold. Use the high temperature stuff and print 100% infill then use lower temp plastic to injection mold. For an injector it is fairly easy to make one from low cost steel pipe. Make a plunger and a nozzle then use an Induction heater to heat the steel pipe. It will take some trial and error to get the temp right but you can easily and cheaply do it

[@SivvFpv]

HELL YEAH EXCISION but seriously i love the presentation and style of the vid and a great music taste too boot! subbed!

[@CliffKajun]

HAHA yea! We fly for the Lost Lands live stream. The show is incredible! Thank you!!!

[@thefrub]

I keep wondering if bigger, slower props will be quieter. More surface area for lift means props can spin slower, right?

[@user-jf2je7rs9w]

You're exactly right. Bigger propellers are also more efficient and run on lower rpms. The limiting factor is the frame size of your drone. There's a give and take as increasing the frame size increases the forces it needs to withstand and increases weight from the compensating material.

[@theodoreboehm6236]

Tpu actually has some of the best layer adhesion for 3D printing.

[@FractalNinja]

it would be cool to see a weighted single toroidal prop, would it have less turbulence from the blade wingtips wrapping around instead of being separate? maybe stronger than the ziplines?

[@CliffKajun]

We are thinking the same thing haha. These will be tested in the follow up video, and imagine they will be much stronger. Thanks! 🤘🏼

[@yodaiam1000]

Can you try offsetting the outersurface of the prop by about 0.3mm and then fiber glass? Use carbon or glass toe around the hub. The aerodynamic centre of the zipline prop force is not centred on the hub which causes vibrations and twisting of drone arms. I would be interested in finding out what happens with a similar three blade prop with the props at 95.5, 124.9, and 139.6 degrees (these are prime ratios which I think will spread out the frequency of excitation. You get fewer repeating patterns with prime numbers with the rotation of the blades if that make sense. If you know what a response spectrum is, it flattens out the response spectrum). Each prop can be a different size so the aerodynamic centre of force is at the hub which also reduces vibration. Stag the heights of the props for clean air. I am really curious to see what the result would be.

[@CliffKajun]

That could work! I'll add this to the list of test versions for the follow up video. Interesting. I'll take your notes and do some more digging to get a better understanding of the science before our next design. Thank you for the details!! 🤘🏼

[@yodaiam1000]

@@CliffKajun Really looking forward to seeing results. Thanks for the work you put into this. It is pretty interesting.

[@KermitGTT]

ModBot recently did a video on printing pla with petg as support material and visa versa. Gives a very good supported surface finish without marring. Might be worth a look.

[@zaired]

exactly what I was thinking, but for that you'd need a material station with his printer

[@CliffKajun]

That's a good call. I've had decent results with this method. We may try this in the follow up video. Thanks!

[@CliffKajun]

Fortunately our Snapmaker 2 has the dual extruder module 🤘🏼

[@SteveWB]

polymaker polymax PLA printed at about 235 is very tough. I use it in combat robotics

[@peter360adventures9]

Awesome.

[@ClintonCaraway-CNC]

You need a X1-Carbon Combo. If you printed them laying flat to align with layers optionally out of PETG with PLA as the support interface it would give you a support that would breakaway cleanly and give you a much stronger part. After prototyping the concept use either PA12-CF or PET-CF with Bambu Lab breakaway support material ("Support G") if necessary. I find using 3 interface layers with a grid like pattern with the carbon fiber reinforce nylon blends you really don't even need the specialized support material. It comes off extremely clean. Your printer and material choices will make a huge difference in your success...I promise you that!!

[@jesserathburn6229]

Hello form north east Ohio. Very nice work!

[@CliffKajun]

Hello and thank you! O-H

[@victorluis9419]

Could you, use and silicone mold, and use epoxi resin?

[@CliffKajun]

This is something I think we are going to try in the next video 🤘🏼

[@themeek351]

You spend a little more and try Taulmans 910 alloy CF nylon! It was great layer adhesion and amazing strength!

[@arcataslacker]

Might have to try resin on em

[@PeterRichardsandYoureNot]

It’s not just what you use to print with but how you print it. You need to find the correct angle so that the layer lines are longitudinally their longest with less separation.

[@melon9088]

A Fusion 360 design walk-through would be phenomenal. One thing I would try is resin 3d printing, since you can get much much finer layer lines and surface finish, even printing horizontally.

[@CliffKajun]

We are trying resin in the follow up video, thanks! The Fusion tutorial is up as well: Draw Props in FUSION 360 | Toroidal and Zipline kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3uzfpqOfNyUq9k

[@melon9088]

@@CliffKajun Do you have plans to make a design video for the Zipline style props? That's what I find super interesting

[@bearnaff9387]

Re: Injection molding. You can make limited-use injection molds for some lower-temp thermoplastics on a resin printer using special high-temp resins. You would still have to make an injector, but the resin and collars for printed molds are both sold at reasonable prices for people who want low-volume manufacture that's too much to be entirely 3D printed but not economically viable to have actual dies cut from steel or aluminum. If you do end up exploring this, have fun with it! HDPE is infinitely recyclable and might be strong enough to work - then you can make a video called "Making groundbreaking propellers out of laundry detegent bottles!" or the like

[@2dozen22s]

Could make a channel inside the props, shove a metal wire coated in epoxy in there. The metal wire will hold it together better, and the epoxy will slightly shrink (and mate the two materials together). Additionally, you could get a slightly conductive filament and electroplate something onto it. (Might have luck resin printing a micro lattice, for lots of surface area for the electroplating to deposit material on. Would have to be sparse unless using a electroless plating solution.)

[@Samsparks4]

What about Resin printing??

[@NZ_NATIV3]

to ultimately create a silent toroidal propeller you must implement the owls wing in particular the wing tips /edge the owl is the most silent flyer

[@CliffKajun]

This is a really interesting point. I may have to try this. Thanks for the tip! We will mention you if we do 🤘🏼

[@CliffKajun]

Also apologies for the terrible pun “tip” 😅

[@menacingdonutz]

For strength it’d probably be better to print in something that melts with ISO and fume smooth the outside which would not only make it more aerodynamic but would eliminate layer lines on the outside. It may even be beneficial to anneal the props then fume smooth after that.

[@arkatub]

Hi, please try using E-DA brand TPU, it is a bit stiffer then other TPUs, I use it in a bowden tube printer, I think it would work well for this.

[@arkatub]

(very high layer adhesion, will bend instead of snapping, nylon-like but easy to print)

[@badmood88]

Over heated filament for better layer adhesion and printing slowly so it does not droop, and in a heated chamber so it does not warp. 25% speed.

[@foolwise4703]

How about resin printing?

[@martonlerant5672]

PLA is in fact among the stro gest philament, its not tough, thats what you tought you had an issue with. As PLA has higher tensile strength, than PETG or ABS. However the issue was the isotropic quality of FDM prints (aka. weak along layer lines). If you. have issue with that i recommend high hardness grade TPU. If you cannot print it in proper orientation that is.

[@CliffKajun]

Yea, PLA is stronger, but not as flexible as the PETG. The start and stop of the props seems to be the majority of the stress and this is where flex is better. I thought about TPU but haven't found one that is hard enough to keep its shape at speed. Any recommendations?

[@kurtnelle]

Instead of an STL can we just have the .step or whatever file format Fusion 360 uses?

[@CliffKajun]

Setting a reminder now. I’ll be back in the studio Monday. Thanks!

[@jonchall8]

I printed props for a pylon racer that survived spinning up to 30k+ RPM. They were printed flat out of Polymax PC.

[@TheKatLaRue]

Nice excision lost lands shirt!! Lmk if you will be going this year

[@CliffKajun]

Haha thanks🤘🏼 I should be stage front flying fpv for the live stream again 😎

[@justintime5021]

I wonder if this may be a good use case for resin. You wouldnt have the issue with layer delamination since resin prints are pretty uniform regardless of print orientation. Resin is not shock resistant but is pretty strong in tension. You would also get more accuracy in general. Though definitely not a permanent prop solution

[@CliffKajun]

I agree, resin is probably the best option for working prototypes. We are getting ready to test and start the next video very soon!

[@justintime5021]

@@CliffKajun awesome I look forward to watching it!

[@RoycoNL]

Could maybe try to make a 3d printed mold and for a forged carbon fiber propellor

[@nengyang1895]

It may be quieter...buy what about efficiency and how much difference in thrust?

[@truefoxtrot2884]

the ideal prop, efficiency-wise would be a single blade, large, slow moving prop, so i think this would be pretty good actually (you will have uneven trust and you need to make the counter balance as aerodynamic as possible)

[@crckdns]

did you hear me screaming while the first 2 tests with the pla/petg printed vertically? :D I mean, every 3d print user would know the problem. entertaining video! I vote for the design guidance video, have to learn still a lot in fusion360 :D

[@CliffKajun]

Lol, I knew it would be a little frustrating to the 3D printing crowd 🤣 Thank you! That video is up, but unlisted. We are going to makes some adjustments and re-upload. You can watch it here though: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2K1pXiuotWhqtE

[@ChadKovac]

are people having success printing their own more standard props?

[@Simon_Rafferty]

I've printed quite a lot of props and found Tough PLA to be the best option, printed flat. Also, bigger (8" in my case) props work better as they rotate slower, reducing the centripetal force. Unfortunately, printed props always seem to be noisier and less efficient even if you work hard to sand & smooth the surface. While it's cheating a bit, my attempt at the zip-line prop used a pair of decent Carbon Fibre props with one blade cut off, stacked with the stem of the counterbalance sandwiched inbetween. You can buy hubs with a female thread - then use a long screw to hold it all together, along with some glue to fix the positions. For 8" diameter, I spaced the two bladed 10mm apart with a 30 degree angle between the blades. This seemed to give the lowest perceived noise level with decent efficiency. Even still, silent it was not.

[@bushhawkrc3223]

@CliffKajun maybe for a future attempt, try printing them from ABS & then Acetone vapour smoothing them. Or try resin printing them

[@meeskonijnendijk1687]

Hey Cliff & Cajun, could you make a propellor that merges the idea of the thoroidal propellor from MIT with the offset blades of the quiet zipline props. would love to see if those are even quieter or have any efficiency gains. Kind regards, Mees Konijnendijk

[@EREBUSAETHER]

Can't leave a heat gun in while printing?

[@keepyourairspeedup]

It's great you are showing your progress. What temp where you using?

[@keepyourairspeedup]

I have printed props, it has to be hot no fan each layer melts together.

[@keepyourairspeedup]

Also the pattern it's prints is important, 100 percent infill move around on plate till z seam is diminished or in exceptable location, also fine layer lines on each layer.

[@keepyourairspeedup]

Also shape is odd, might not be balanced equally on all directions, possible reason for self destruction.

[@CliffKajun]

Good call on running a higher temp, I’m doing that on our next set. 🤘🏼 Balance was close in all directions. The wide counterweight allows for adjustments both ways. It wasn’t as perfect as I would have our cinelifter props though. Thanks for the tips!!

[@keepyourairspeedup]

Another thought that came to mind it was hard for me to explain, even though weight is balance on balance tool all the way around, the angle of attack or incidents to hub ,ounce lift starts acting on blade at different speeds unequal forces are applied to attach point on spinning hub. Like the flex in say top blade angle changes and forces the blade to go in unrealistic angle of attack and tear itself apart. High speed camera with smoke might tell u more of forces acting on blades. Also test subjects I would be curious on how brittle vs toughness, or flexibility. Just trying to be constructive not over critical. Thanks for all your hard work!

[@iamkian]

I wonder if something like this would work on an eFoil!

[@zabijavak2329]

why not cast them in resin?

[@crashandglue9462]

What if you combined toroidal props with the zip line props? Just a thought.

[@CliffKajun]

This is a possibility on the follow up video. Thanks!

[@crashandglue9462]

@@CliffKajun your welcome!

[@killaluggi3623]

To massively improve the stabilety you could print them vericaly, cast them into plaster and then throw them into an oven to remelt the plastic inside of the plaster, make sure to keep it long and hot enougth to compleatly remelt the plastic

[@bricedarling1984]

If you were serious about wanting to make a mold I have a good friend who makes injection molds for a living. He can make a small mold called a mud mold with a cavity for the left hand right prop pretty easily

[@CliffKajun]

Might have to look into that. Molding parts definitely has its advantages. Thanks! 🤘🏼

[@dmitrymaslov4458]

Let's call them bunny props!

[@k.o.0]

Pro tip - been using 3D printed props for air and water (boat) with no issues for years by simply coating props with cyanoacrylate. No annealing required. Quick, fast, reliable.

[@sannikanti]

What about twisted ripped compact disk propellers..to fly on 6arms and 12!props.

[@CliffKajun]

Lol, this could be interesting 🤣

[@cybernetix86]

Carbon fiber won't help but i'd give a shot to nylon if you are able to print some. It's a pain in the ass to print but the X1 is more than capable to do so. No part cooling and the right temperature should make those very solid and the flex will prevent them from "exploding".

[@CliffKajun]

I have some nylon on the way. Thank you for the detailed tips!

[@camdavbax]

So has no one used resin to print any of these props??

[@nickrudd2568]

I hear ASA filament is pretty tough and good for UV resistance too.

[@irkdhesa]

That was my thought. You can also acetone smooth them which would make the props super smooth and bind the layers together better. I do this all the time on my models (not props yet).

[@aditya.k.kochhar]

Print the props with wax and then put them in a plaster of paris (PoP) or sand mold and then push in hot liquid plastic or metal. Ideally, Wax will burn off and you should get rough cut props which can be polished to an accurate shape.

[@le_truc7722]

Hey, I have a suggestion for a design that could potentially solve some of the exploding issues but I’m not sure… problem is I don’t have a drone to try it out, if I model something up and send it to you and you think it could work could you try it out for me?

[@markkalsbeek5883]

I've been thinking about how to make them stronger while keeping the shape nice. Maybe your could try printing it single wall and filling it with epoxy. You could add chopped carbon of fiberglass to make it stronger. Alternatively you could try salt curing these props, where you put them in a bed of very fine compressed salt. You then put it in the oven to fully melt it together. CNC kitchen has a great video on it. Lastly, I'm really curious about how the second prop is affected by the downwash of the first one. So it'd be really cool if you got high framerate footage of the next version running with some smoke. You might actually want to print a test stand with a single motor so you don't have to mount them on your drone every time. They are often L shaped with a bearing in the center and the other arm pressing on a scale to get force measurements.

[@CliffKajun]

That’s a great idea on filling the hollow print instead of infill. I’ll have to try that. Salt curing is on our radar for the follow up for sure. I’ll watch the video. Thanks! We are going to make a much better test rig for this one and tweak the design of the props quite a bit.

[@markkalsbeek5883]

@@CliffKajun cool! Looking forward to it!

[@FitzPhan1810]

I think you should use SLA 3d printing technology. 3D printing with this solution will make your part have a texture similar to molded plastic.

[@CliffKajun]

That's a great idea, and I think we are going to do a follow up video with resin printed versions. The higher end SLA prints aren't something we can currently afford since we would need several variations. Cheers 🤘🏼

[@HillbillyRednecking]

Most all cooling fans on vehicles are not symmetrical, the blades will still be balanced but spread out varying widths. It helps to quiet the percussion waves like you’d hear from a helicopter.