ZLC vs ALC - The Only Explanation You’ll Ever Need

[@Looeelooee]

PSA - I confirmed with Sergio SZLC in fact does share the same structure as ZLC, just in a higher density. Join the channel Discord server here - discord.gg/UbakrKSFCp Watch this video if you are interested in free coaching - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJ3Eg5Wvq7h4q68 ★★ Follow my socials ★★ Instagram - instagram.com/real_looeelooee/ Twitter - twitter.com/real_looeelooee/

[@pongbotstore]

Amazing breakdown! The comparison on speed and control between ZLC and ALC was spot on. As someone who loves powerful shots, ZLC might be my next upgrade!

[@Looeelooee]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bahadratay6532]

Great explonations, this exactly proves why I hate Alc and love zlc, a good feelling. And my inner zlc have more feelling than all wood blades I tried. For throw angle I think the rubber is far more dominant than blade.

[@fzambetta75]

Sergio is very knowledgeable and a nice guy, too! He made the blade I have been currently using, which is a handmade, slightly faster version of the Andro Ligna FR. Thanks for uploading a new version of the video, looking good!

[@Looeelooee]

Awesome! And glad you enjoyed the updated video!

[@konthawatkhathancharoen5917]

Best explanation on KZbin !!

[@Looeelooee]

@@konthawatkhathancharoen5917 thanks!!

[@hipnotic88]

Great video 🙂I think you could've just thrown in a picture showing the fabrics themselves, so that people could easily see the difference in the weave pattern of ZLC and ALC, that would make it easier to understand how the stiffness/hardness relation works. Also important to note that these are only differences in the individual fabrics, doesn't mean a blade will play like that just because it has that specific fiber. The positioning of the fiber, as well as the rest of the composition (wood layers), plays an equally important, if not bigger role, on the performance of the blade.

[@Looeelooee]

Thanks! Glad it's an improvement over the other one. And yeah maybe just showing the actual weave pattern would have been better haha. And yes this video I aimed basically to describe the difference between ZLC and ALC if all else is equal in the blade with the disclaimer that there are many other things that can affect a blades playing properties including the wood types, position of the fiber (inner vs outer layer), number of layers of wood, etc. other than the fiber used. In the near future I'm going to be making a comprehensive equipment overview to cover literally all of this stuff. Out of curiosity was I correct in my assumption that super zlc is the same weave type as standard ALC where the zylon and carbon are both weaved horizontally and vertically? Hence giving it a similar stiffness to ALC but with a slightly harder feel and larger sweet spot due to the denser weave?

[@hipnotic88]

@@Looeelooee Not really 😅. If we are talking about Butterfly, then their szlc has the same weave pattern has zlc, just a higher density. However, the type of fabric you are describing does exist and I work with it (or did, I just ran out 😅).

[@Looeelooee]

@@hipnotic88 interesting thats good to know. So for Butterfly specifically they use both directions strictly for ALC, and then zlc, szlc and salc all share the same weave pattern? Also (btw sorry for all the questions you're super knowledgeable so I figured you're the best person to ask) are the fibers you use in your own blades the same idea as butterfly even if not identical? Like you structure your zlc similarly to them etc.?

[@hipnotic88]

@@Looeelooee Yes, out of those ALC is the only one that has both fibers in both directions. The majority of these fabrics aren't specifically made for TT. They have a vast number of applications, and manufacturers buy them from other suppliers. This was true until Butterfly launched ALC, brands have an habit of giving fancy names to their fibers, for example TAMCA 5000 is just a plain carbon, but for ALC they made a proprietary weave. It's slightly different from what's out there, and it's easy to spot a fake just by looking at the fiber layer. After Butterfly, other brands started doing this as well, and now there's more proprietary weaves. So, for ALC no, it's not exactly the same, although I can achieve very similar results. The fabric itself isn't the only thing that matters, the laminating process is equally important as the fiber and there you have a bunch of variables: resin type, resin amount, pressure, curing time, curing temperature... For ZLC yes, it's exactly the same because it's not proprietary, and I was able to get the same weave type and even some different ones. Just out of curiosity, the real name of the fiber is PBO, Zylon is just a trademarked name for PBO, just like Kevlar is for Aramid for example.

[@Looeelooee]

@@hipnotic88 thank you so much for the detailed reply. All your explanations make total sense and I appreciate you taking the time! It's funny you mention that regarding the nomenclature / pbo because when I was joola sponsored they had pbo-c and super pbo-c and I remember them telling me it's literally identical to zlc / super zlc so that now also makes total sense

[@nottyabram]

Great. Absolutely amazing explanation. Finally I understand the principle. Now It makes it much much easier to choose what I need. thank you very much for all your effort in explaning this concept so very easily. APpreciate it. 👍👍👍👍👍

[@Looeelooee]

@@nottyabram glad you found it helpful!!

[@silviadour9135]

La mejor nota que he visto sobre este tema. Gracias por compartirla, desde Argentina !!

[@Looeelooee]

@@silviadour9135 ¡Ningún problema! Me alegra que el vídeo haya sido útil.

[@nyzt_2152]

I'm confused between picking innerforce layer ALC or ZLC. Based on this ZLC is expected to be stiff, but butterfly has made the thickness of ZLC lesser (5.7mm vs 6mm). The more feeling in hand aspect you mentioned about ZLC, does it carry over to inner style ZLC too?

[@Looeelooee]

@@nyzt_2152 I would say so especially since inner in general just gives way more feeling than outer.

[@afshinkavousi617]

Thanks Louis, that was best ZLC/ALC ever seen in KZbin.

[@Looeelooee]

No problem and I appreciate it!

[@vkay121]

can you make one explaining inner force vs alc please.. this was great and very helpful! i also wonder how soft rubbers work vs hard rubbers and how do hybrid rubbers feel different

[@Looeelooee]

Yes, when I do my comprehensive equipment guide it will go over literally everything

[@prenlin2804]

Has anyone made a zlc blade with the fiber arranged at a 45 degree angle, like stiga did w/ their Textreme material on the Carbonado 45?

[@Looeelooee]

I don't believe so although I could be wrong as I'm not as caught up to speed on exactly how each manufacturer makes their blades anymore.

[@prenlin2804]

@@Looeelooee right on, might be an interesting design to try for some company one day

[@zhuangcorp]

What's the difference between the blue ALC from butterfly and the white ALC from DHS? Is it just the color, or are the properties different?

[@Looeelooee]

I believe they're similar but can't confirm myself as I haven't played much with any dhs blades. See this review for more info. ttgearlab.com/2023/08/19/dhs-new-hurricane-long-5-my-2022-lab-test-field-test-report/ "The artificial material of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is Arylate Carbon so called ALC. The color of arylate fiber is yellow. (DHS doesn’t call this artificial material as ALC because it is the registered trademark that can’t be used by the maker other than Butterfly in global market.) DHS is basically using two kinds of Arylate fiber - blue one and yellow one. And, the yellow one is more elastic than the blue one. This ALC is placed between the middle layer and the center layer. The top layer is Limba, the middle layer is Ayous and the center layer is also Ayous. Overall thickness is around 5.9mm."

[@jiripingpong6800]

I have Butterfly Lin Yun-Ju Super ZLC blade and it seems to vibrate a lot when making medium-power shots. I find the vibration uncomfortable and distracting. But I am just a mid-level player and this is just my personal feeling.

[@Looeelooee]

@@jiripingpong6800 interesting. Every blade does play slightly different and every player's preferences are different too so makes sense that some may like it and some may not. But if it's vibrating a ton you might want to make sure there's not a fracture somewhere in the wood because it shouldn't be anything crazy.

[@olivero-j1r]

Now you have to make a video on alc and zlc in combination with different wood and their placement(outer/inner) 😂

[@Looeelooee]

😂 no lie though when I make my full equipment guide video in the future it will literally be *that* level of detail. Will be a little bit before the vid comes out though!

[@jiripingpong6800]

It is still not obvious to me why stiffness affects the arc of the ball and hardness affects the vibration and dwell time.

[@Looeelooee]

Honestly I'm not sure exactly why, and there might even be some overlap here. This was moreso just explaining the how, but I would think the way gets very complicated very fast. Might be a good question to ask Sergio.

[@RonaldDavis-f8p]

Kacey Street

[@Looeelooee]

Wot?

[@aerotus888]

Experimenting is bloody expensive.

[@Looeelooee]

True that

[@olivero-j1r]

I thought zlc is hard but flexible and alc is soft but stiff.

[@Looeelooee]

Yup I mixed it up in the video i uploaded last week which is why i did the reupload. ZLC is stiffer but soft and ALC is more flexible but harder

[@modak3458]

@@Looeelooee Why when I look it up on other forums, or on sites like revspin or other review sites, everyone says ALC is soft but stiff and ZLC is hard and flexible?

[@Looeelooee]

@@modak3458 that's where I initially got my info from too for my original upload but many of the people on the forums are getting a lot of the details incorrect. But when you think about it with the understanding that vertical weaves in a fabric contribute to stiffness, and horizontal ones to hardness, then it becomes more intuitive to understand the difference in how zlc and ALC blades play.

[@RobertLevine-m8p]

Runte Flat

[@Looeelooee]

Huh

[@pratimputatunda9384]

What a rubbish explainer...

[@Looeelooee]

Hey there! Sorry to hear the explanation wasn't helpful. To see if maybe I can help out was there a specific concept or point you'd like me to clarify?

[@juan7777777ify]

I agree with the explainer. Zlc makes the blade stiff but softer than Alc.