Grading is a Scam (and Motivation is a Myth) | A Professor Explains

[@cass2796]

"we're told failure is good yet we're punished for it" really made me rethink every single time i've ever been upset over failing a test

[@ruffalo1643]

I also get confused.

[@sissa8216]

“Failure’s okay, you just have things to improve on! Also your never getting into any university even if you didn’t want to, also your gonna end up on the streets. But like I said, failure’s good.”

[@davidkonevky7372]

It's so conflicting

[@ruffalo1643]

@@davidkonevky7372 I don't understand why the school teaches us about something they get upset about.

[@bluesolace9052]

grades determine what you get paid and therefore your future quality of life, YET we live in the double standard where you can only fail so many times before you think you'll end up homeless, poor, or a criminal because as much money has helped expand society it is the weak link that can doom us all. It's sad how experienced someone can be, but will be evaluated based on a piece of paper

[@joggster6677]

I remember my dad told me once that when he was a student, he usually got pretty bad grades, so one time he decided he wants to change that, and he studied so much for a test, that he memorized the topic word for word. The teacher was convinced he cheated and gave him an F.

[@afrdzul9811]

Ouch dude, sorry

[@SneccTheSnake]

That's the exact reason why alot of my siblings tried to just float through school since standing out in either direction, high average of low average, is a bad thing. Being known for a specific thing makes it hard to adapt to be something else in the eyes of others

[@BoredLoserAlpha]

Fuck school

[@ry4876]

What the f***

[@78anurag]

Perfect example of suffering from success

[@yourumbraboo2626]

you know, for a time when everyone tells you, “have fun these are the best years of you life!” I feel very contained and drained of anything good i used to have in life. I can’t wait to get old enough where i can get rid of school in my life. That’s not good.

[@78anurag]

Yes, school is a soul draining experience. I can really relate to this comment especially the part where you say you really want to graduate ASAP. I don't even feel like I'm being educated. I feel like school is just one giant 16 year old long homework to complete.

[@goldenegg7447]

yeah, the best years of my live make me contemplate killing myself every day. The best years of my life make me hate every fiber of my being. Fuck these "best years of my life" bull shit.

[@potatosack7492]

I relate to this so much

[@DragoonBoom]

You sound like me. Have fun with the recurring nightmares of not doing boring, soul sucking assignments for most of the school year and waking up thinking "Holy shit I've gotta actually do stuff or I'll fail to graduate" before realising that you're 27 and have been out of high school for years.

[@78anurag]

@@DragoonBoom Wait do you actually have such nightmares or even have _SLIGHTLY_ exaggerated the real situation

[@catherine.journey]

My middle school teacher once told the class: "I hate the grading system, I feel that it's limiting student's creativity. So I became a teacher to teach students and telling them how much it sucks so maybe there's a chance one of them would grow up then change it." Honestly, the best teacher I've had.

[@catherine.journey]

@@DexterWallace57 She couldn't. She did try a few times though.

[@arielbanzuela2277]

​@@DexterWallace57Don't expect 1 person to change a policy or rule held by the government

[@YouKnowImOnMyPeriodYah]

@@DexterWallace57 Because one teacher with low pay can’t do diddle squat, but an entire generation that might go into the government could

[@Jadenlikero]

What did DexterWallace say??

[@Dust-Dust-Dust]

Yea

[@ironicorca9743]

Good grades never made me feel "happy" or even good, they just felt neutral because they told me "That's what you're supposed to get" and every other bad grade just made me feel awful. There was never a 'good' grade, it was just the grade you were supposed to have.

[@ethan_7480]

This

[@ztoastinator2091]

If I could like this twice, I would

[@ilvanasgobero8096]

Wanna know something ironic? Barely passing makes me happier than getting 100% on a test

[@ironicorca9743]

@@ilvanasgobero8096 You just described like 93% of students.

[@tolomas3721]

Personnally i get 90% on almost every single test but i still stress a lot while taking the test, studying, or doing homework and im not smarter than anyone else, i just happen to be able to learn at school in the current system, wich i still think is trash because most of what i learned (especially in science) was by using the internet (sorry for the english mistakes)

[@mollycourtney7632]

"We're told to learn from our mistakes, but how can we risk making mistakes when everything is on the line?" This just sent me to another dimension how do i get back

[@Rikorage]

Don't focus on the getting back, see what you can learn while there, and if you find a way back, then good for you :D

[@floweyfangirl69420]

I just died

[@emanueljames7801]

I'm a natural risk taker and very confident so a lower than expected grade did not effect me. I liked learning and loved doing things the other students were not. I was a C student who was very good in math and English and was highly rated on test in my school and state, but only a C student because school was not built for me the way I am.

[@dakys3660]

@@emanueljames7801 I mean, the whole concept is about not bringing competition in education and you do that indirectly by saying "i'm different from others, i'm built different". Good for you, imo everyone is built different but some fit more easily to the education system, that doesnt reduce them to sheep who are brainless. And if you say : "this is not what I meant", which is probably the case honestly, I have to say that it is what you communicate through your words, to me atleast.

[@emanueljames7801]

@@dakys3660 No I agree but just like you can't throw "poor" students in the trash and forget about them. We can't forget that some people need challenge and competition to thrive. Just don't forget about those people, every needs something different.

[@DarthKrayt241]

It's crazy to me that there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of videos, essays, articles, etc. about this, and yet nothing has changed

[@theboombody]

Proof that talking about it doesn't get it done. Have to lead by example, like Stone Cold Steve Austin did in 2001.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

Because money. Also, it's a lot of work to change the education system. If 1 local school changes their education system, then a college may not see the school as legitimate, or the students from 1 school might overall do worse/better than other schools. Then it would have to be uniform for every state/province, and then it would have to be uniform for every country so that stuff like "US students are usually worse at math than Chinese students" does not occur. It's impractical considering the required scope.

[@PoptartParasol]

@@ShinyTillDawn lmao no they're just lazy and they dont care. The more uneducated drop-outs who are forced to take on part-time or full time jobs that pay next to nothing and hardly complain or have the privilege to rise above this, the better. Welcome to capitalism

[@ShinyTillDawn]

@@PoptartParasol I simplified all of this in the 1st sentence of the previous reply. The rest of my reply was sort of explaining why a solution would be difficult to execute.

[@inactive-r5w]

@@ShinyTillDawn Gotta agree with that

[@Divinely_Me]

I actually don’t remember most of what I’ve learned in school because I was so obsessed with grades that I just studied really hard and spit it out in the test. That is what my teachers wanted me to do: not to learn, but to pass the test.

[@prayagsuthar9856]

Truly though! Especially in my AP math classes (basically college-level classes that you can take in high school), the teachers always talk about "this is how you answer these problems on the _AP exam,_ and you HAVE to answer the problems THIS EXACT WAY on the _AP exam_ otherwise you'll _lose points"._ That's literally what they expect of us, if we forget to write "by the second derivative test" or something, then _we lose points!!!_

[@vedran3775]

Truer words have never been spoken.

[@rigure]

My friend said the same and I share the issue, although I never cared for grades as lomg as it passed. Barely passing was fine. I guess I didn't really keep a lot though, I just automatically memorized it for a while

[@ksksksjs]

Maybe Teachers are getting paid for every passed test

[@biolumenescentcommie]

yeah, I don't really learn anything in history class because it's all lecture based and there's just a big test at the end of each chapter in the textbook so I hardly remember anything after we take the test.

[@HobbesHobbiton]

My middle school gave out "tickets" to kids who obeyed the rules. In actuality they only passed them out to the bullies who behaved once in a blue moon, because my constant upstanding performance is an "expectation" that doesn't necessitate reward.

[@deligeorgieva8535]

EXACTLY

[@deligeorgieva8535]

same thing with grades in my school, cause i get good grades 95% of the time that no one is actually surprised or proud of me, because it's how every student should be. but the second those with bad grades that couldn't care less actually put in some effort they got praised and given a good grade for the littlest task

[@australium7374]

that’s because a school wants everyone to behave and uses the least amount of resources to subjugate everyone in the classes. you do not matter, they could care less about you.

[@crisptomato9495]

In Canada you have to take certain subjects like science and history in French and at my school if you spoke English during those classes you would have one ticket taken away for each word of English spoken by whoever caught you. All it did was create animosity between classmates and everyone was on edge trying to rat each other out.

[@marmadukescarlet7791]

My observation is that the awards go to the children whose parents are the most involved in the PTA or are rich enough to donate to extra curricular activities.

[@chiefn.s.p7044]

I love the Carl Sagan quote “My experience is, you go talk to kindergarten kids or first-grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. And they ask deep questions. “What is a dream, why do we have toes, why is the moon round, what is the birthday of the world, why is grass green?” These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them. You go talk to 12th grade students and there’s none of that. They’ve become leaden and incurious. Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade and it’s not just puberty.”

[@c1borgen]

Parents shut up us for being annoying with these questions. We get afraid of asking again and so the critical thinking dies.

[@racool911]

They learn how to use Google

[@bananak.37]

There are always high level questions to ask, the kindergarteners will ask questions about the nature of the world they know (what the sky is, why colors are like how they are,etc) but older kids, in middle childhood, have budding moral systems, they’ll ask about death, purpose, and more. Google isn’t the solution. Also, Google is often an answer given to a kid, by a parent, who doesn’t want to answer them. They learn to shut up and Google, not debate and engage their ideas with adults.

[@cinamoonmoon5166]

people are curious for sure, but they dont want to work for the knowledge they say they want

[@DawnMK2023]

Kids say a lot of philosophical questions, yes. But ask them to perform surgery, drive a car, do calculus, cure diseases, develop new energy sources...all garnered through success, failures, determination, and motivation to not roll over and give up.

[@pigeon4422]

for me, grades are an all round demotivator. High grades = stops trying Low grades = gives up

[@nathanhernandez7173]

for me it's High Grades - stop trying Low Grades - Desperately try to bring grades back up to bare minimum, losing sleep in the process I don't think that's much better either

[@andynonymous6769]

No kidding!!!

[@ForwardTokage]

High grades = I might've cheated Low grades = Uh oh

[@triflest3542]

High grades = when you accidentally get a lower grade, everyone says they're disappointed Low grades = why should I even bother if all my work was for nothing? (stops trying)

[@AdrianMusicProd]

@@triflest3542 I relate. I am a D/C average student, but am told I have the potential to get A+, even though I have never gotten that, even after studying for weeks. I am becoming a senior now. I did my own little social experiment on my parents. They tell me if I get anything that isn’t of their expectations, that I don’t try hard enough, and demotivate me. I try my hardest, but I am not a very smart person, and I accept that. The 3rd quarter, I decided to pull all nighters and try harder, breaking my mental state further than needed, and ended up with my grades being B+, B+, B, and a C+. Their behavior and responses were the same. They told me I didn’t try hard enough and they expected more from me. The next quarter, I let myself get down to a 23%. They allowed the D+ afterwards, which I raised myself to through more all nighters. I’m not saying that they are bad parents, I know they want the best for me. But they need to try making that happen from a different angle. What are your thoughts?

[@Skylerrose23]

When I entered AP Art, I was shocked. My teacher told us we could draw when she was talking, we could read when a video was running, as long as we were inspired and willing to create. Why can’t more classes be like that? Drawing during class helps me focus, yet I felt like a criminal whenever I did it

[@theboombody]

Because in art it's a lot more subjective than math class. In math class you need an algorithm that will be consistently correct so you're not just guessing. Some teachers are a bit picky on what algorithm you choose, and of course they want to see your work because they're grading dozens of papers and they don't want to spend all their time at home trying to guess how you did stuff when they deserve a life outside of work too.

[@sourwitch2340]

@@theboombody firstly: they never said anything about teachers, or maths teachers specifically, needing to be more lax in the actual results or presentation they expect. just that controlling how students learn isn't helpful. what matters should be exactly THAT students learn, not how. what matters is that you CAN show how you got there, and get to the right point, but as long as you can demonstrate that, it shouldn't matter what formula you used. secondly: that it makes special sort of sense to teach this way in an arts program doesn't change the fact that a lot of arts and other creative programs will be taught in the exact same manner maths or physics would. which, as you note correctly, doesn't make sense. these subjects have a different character, different qualities benefit them, yet most teachers act like the only thing any subject needs is discipline. when most don't.

[@theboombody]

@@sourwitch2340 What you say is ideal but not practical. It assumes a teacher is an unlimited resource whose only pleasure in life is to serve the student. It's a unilateral contract where the teacher bears FAR more burden than the student. Not only do students need incentive to learn, but teachers need incentive to teach, and sometimes being able to do your job efficiently so you aren't spending 3 extra hours a day at your job figuring extra stuff out is nice. If you want to do something an inefficient and fun way, you can do it on your time and show your teacher later. That's what I did with my calculus teacher. I followed the algorithm he taught me on my assignments and showed him an algorithm I liked during his office hours.

[@Buttercup697]

Visual arts are not the same as typical academics… it’s much more subjective. There is no right or wrong in art (other than color theory or practical technical skills)… art requires thinking outside the box (as does writing) much more than the rudimentary academic studies of math, science, history, computer sciences you get in middle/high school… university math and science is a different animal where thinking outside the box gets you your PhD. I quit teaching visual arts after 8 years … the idea of grading an idea seemed counterproductive to the creative process.

[@TeachMeLordGod]

My AP art class wasn't so lucky. Especially me. I always just did what I wanted to do, just following their rules just enough. Til this day, I hardly do commissions. Either someone is going to like my stuff for what it is or they can ask someone else who can.

[@knockoffairpods4524]

fun fact: my high school was actually designed by an architect who was known for designing prisons! and I can wholeheartedly confirm that it felt like one too!

[@SantiagoMonroy5]

lol

[@Arkansym]

Mine was originally a military base. It too, felt like that.

[@banant5620]

Visiting a prison and a military base is cool but staying there for years certainly is not imo yes

[@Shaathurray]

SMNW was aswell i believe

[@vivaciouslyla9294]

My school was originally a prison 😂 I felt this

[@MrMoon-hy6pn]

Hmm, this is probably why videogames are a happy place for a lot of people. No one forces them upon you, the reward most of the time is just getting to experience it and they're actually interesting/engaging, and if you don't like it you can just move on. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of school or most work.

[@dudere]

But what if I like playing video games with grading systems?>

[@sublimebouquetblaze9198]

@@dudere you're a masochist. /j

[@Duhgel]

@@thecommenter2711 As you should, games >>>> school

[@xmlthegreat]

Yeah but modern games demand that you treat them like you do a second job. You feel so much pressure to do Ranked in World of Warships, or buy lootcrates in FIFA, or pay attention to your K/D ratio in Call of Duty, etc. because they have become the new grades. Without those numbers or figures you don't feel good about yourself.

[@pramada9431]

@@xmlthegreat but to be honest isn't that the things most people complain about stuff in games? And I only play those kinda games for a few days before I give up on them. If I stay it's usually inspite of those mechanics than because of them

[@1Meepman]

The scariest part of getting constant A's isn't that they don't feel earned, it's that they lose their luster and become the norm for the student. When I got straight A's for the first time, I was ecstatic; That was in middle school. In college, getting all A's feels like an "oh, good job, you passed" moment.

[@trollsurvivor]

For me I just try to keep my final grades above a 95 so I can get a scholarship to one of the better colleges in my area

[@zofiar4753]

I started getting frustrated when I only got the highest scores in uni, because I was putting less and less work into it, and yet the results were still the same, so I realised I didn't have to try to do anything at all, because clearly it did not matter. And I used to actually be interested in these things, I used to be passionate about them - but I had to quit this course to actually regain my interest in the topic.

[@TheBuildMiner210]

In addition, at least in my experience, if you started getting straight A's and it has become the norm, there is an immense feeling of failure associated with anything that's not an A, while getting A's has no positive feeligns associated with it as you described.

[@lunathegodkiller]

I just graduated high school a month ago; I crashed and burned out super hard because I was the Prodigy Child (TM) of the family and instead of a positive "you did great" type thing, getting an A in every class became almost a requirement for me at home, and by the end of the year I felt like i wasn't doing much of anything for myself rather than other people.

[@joniboi3699]

I was a straight C/D student and I needed an A to get into maths A level. I worked really hard to get an A in my GCSE two or three months before they started. I was in set 3 so they only taught foundation maths which baisically meant I was on my own to learn the higher stuff. GCSE results came and I was 4 marks off an A. I told all the maths teachers my circumstances and how I had improved from a level 4 to almost a level 7 within the span of 2-3 months whilst only being taught foundation math at school, but they were all adamant that I was unfit to do maths A level because of some made-up grading system. I come to find out that next year they had dropped the A level math requirements from 7 to 6. Dumbass school bruh 😒

[@KubanKevin]

I had a music college professor who hated it so much, he said to us from the beginning: “If you attend three music concerts and write your papers with your genuine review of each of them, no matter what, I will pass you through this class.” We didn’t even have to pay for the concerts. The last one was a full on orchestra and he himself was playing violin. We need more professors like you, Dr. Walz. A lot of older professors don’t like this system either.

[@BoomQuackaLaka]

The fact that his name was 'Walz' and he became a music teacher felt like it was destiny

[@blitzboy2934]

My orchestra teacher is similar to that. He’s super chill, and he’s been teaching us since 7th grade. At our las concert of the year when the current seniors graduate, most people bring him something and people get awards and stuff, it’s really sweet. I’m glad that most music teachers actually take pride in their work, and have fun with it. It makes it better for the students too.

[@kj3d812]

Unlike my music history teacher at the well-known arts school I attended, who said, "The only excuse for missing my class is death." I once sat in his class with 102 degree fever and chills because of that threat. Oh, and I remember nothing from that music history class.

[@Because-rt8qs]

So, he just wanted to play and didn't want to teach. How is that good? You don't seem to grasp that he just didn't care about you. It's bizarre.

[@defaultdan7923]

⁠@@kj3d812it’s almost like forcing students to attend class _doesnt_ actually mean they’ll remember everything better, especially when they might have a literal fever.

[@so0meone]

My time in high school: "How are you all falling behind? I only assign an hour of homework a night!" "Probably because 6 of our 7 teachers assign an hour of homework a night"

[@momo.jiajia]

they seem to always think that they're the center of our attention, ignoring the fact that many students have extracurriculars because society insists we have them, families they'd like to spend time with, and hobbies because they wanna enjoy stuff too.

[@Alicia-rn8bg]

Not only that, repeating mathematical operations over and over again is not going to make you understand mathematics neither learn it. It just makes you a human calculator... Does a calculator understand what it is behind fractions? what they represent or how they can be used? No, but they get them done...just like students.

[@davisf8946]

“Alright I got everything done, can you please update my grades?” “ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I’ve literally got 6 or 7 classes to grade do you really think YOU’RE my priority?” The logic is always right there lol, but they really can never figure out that you are feeling the exact same way.

[@amiyahancock3056]

or when you don’t understand the 10 minute homework and it takes you an hour to complete

[@destiny-mh8pk]

​@@amiyahancock3056 especially when the homework has nothing to do with what you learned in class

[@xariancampbell4818]

So it’s basically like getting up to get the dishes because you wanted to and then not wanting to do them once your mom tells you to do it.

[@arjunsreedhar3024]

There's clearly more then that tho

[@agreedboarart3188]

No. Not at all.

[@mackycabangon8945]

YES.

[@Andrew-zi3iw]

it's more like you get up to do the dishes because you want to be cleaner, then your mom says she'll give you 10$ to do the dishes. it says that doing dishes is bad because otherwise you wouldn't need an incentive to do it, and it makes it about the reward for doing the dishes rather than the reason for doing the dishes but also, that's happened to me before

[@agreedboarart3188]

@@Andrew-zi3iw I feel like it's more like this: You're planning on doing the dishes later this morning. However, your mom comes into your room chastising you because the dishes are all dirty and have yet to be clean. There is no reward for doing them, only the consequences of not doing them (same with school work and grades, no reward, just punishment), and now you're unmotivated to do it. You're just being forced to perform a certain way.

[@jonasarnesen6825]

Schools: *learn from mistakes* Also schools: *Don't allow students to retake tests or improve otherwise*

[@lukebytes5366]

And no, that doesn't mean the school can just pile that on to everything else I do for the remainder of the semester, screw online school tbh.

[@neroquin]

*move onto the next subject before you can learn what you did wrong and how to fix it*

[@epicroader8433]

@@TrueHey thats goddamn awful

[@fluffynator6222]

It's so funny... Last year I wrote a D on my biology test, did every homework and handed in a small extra piece of work and got an A for that. I got a B at the end. This year I wrota a D on my biology test, improved it to a C, wrote a B on the second test and overall did every homework I was asked to do. I got a C at the end. How?!

[@jonasarnesen6825]

@@TrueHey I believe many schools don't even have teachers who offer to explain what you did wrong in the test. I've never seen a math teacher explain a student what the student did wrong. The same goes with English, Chemistry teachers and so on. I believe most brush it off thinking students didn't study. That's one part many teachers fail at being teachers.

[@Caintastrophe]

One time my teacher in elementary told me- word for word- “this is too creative”. WHAT THE HELL? I was in elementary, let me use my damn imagination I did everything the paper asked, but just with my own spin on it

[@rohanking12able]

I've never understood especially English teachers that seriously believe there's one right way to say a phrase

[@pickle3114]

that was in elementary school jeez 😂

[@LeafscaleTheRainwing]

if anything this is a compliment- like who says "this is too creative" in this kind of way? does this teacher want yall to be boring hiveminds that cant come up with something new or what

[@Caintastrophe]

@@ControversialPricant oh it was not a joking tone, i had to redo the whole thing

[@tina-santheartistichuman33]

That reminded me of a elementary teacher I had who once yelled at me for scribble instead of neatly coloring, pretty sure I had a kind of assignment that required coloring something and she had an entire fit on why I should restart cus I scribbled… this was in kindergarten. Yeah I still don’t know what the problem was, you have every right to be mad at that teacher.

[@TheMightyPika]

I dreaded grades. I was an undiagnosed autistic until 27, so my school years were hard. My old Boomer parents believed that grades marked your worth as a child - bad grades meant disobedience, which meant brutal verbal abuse. School was my own personal hell for 12 years. Never understood people who are nostalgic for their childhoods.

[@Maw0]

I'm nostalgic for my elementary years.

[@thatamericangamer7230]

@@Maw0 im nostalgic for half of mine Pretty good until they changed the food it then went sideways this new school for a couple of weeks didn’t have proper trays so they just put it in paper plates so I am pretty glad my old school was better

[@Maw0]

@@thatamericangamer7230 Yeah. Sorry that school sucked.

[@junioryoung9662]

I had friends like you... We are the best of friends and really blended close for the same thoughts. Only thing is that we told our parents that we didn't care since we really don't learn a single thing after the year ended anyways so I'd stay dumb. I proved this by getting good grades then let them test me at the end of the school year. Man was i glad that we forgot everything 😃, made life a bit ezr

[@Maw0]

@@junioryoung9662 My science teacher always gives us reminders of our Chemistry and Biology classes, and nobody knows anything because nobody retained anything.

[@PrettyTranslatorSarahMoon]

I went to an elementary school that didn't have grades or tests and I had an amazing experience and learned a lot. Do recommend.

[@SienaAmelie]

I went to a Montessori school which was like that! So sad they didn't do highschool

[@AN-ou6qu]

Bro wait elementary schools usually have grades?? Like, there’d be like oh you got 8/12 on your test but it would never be tracked (to my knowledge)

[@AN-ou6qu]

(At the school I went to)

[@skyminoffline]

@@AN-ou6qu my schools had letter grading since 1st grade, kindergarten had grading but in a different way

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

@@AN-ou6qu tracked not, it's such a final thing for a child to see. Maybe they'll not care,maybe they won't. Both outcomes can lead to problems apathy and hyper vigilance respectively being some of the possible outcomes.

[@TieisAwsom]

For me, getting a bad grade just screams at me "Your life is over. Your not going to succeed in life, nobody's gonna want to accept you into their school, you're just dumb, hopeless, and sad." And getting a good grade just makes me feel temporarily relieved.

[@miguelmercer2377]

I hate being able to relate to this

[@MG-05]

At this point I've becaome totally numb to good grades because it's so rare and feels so not worth it, like just yesterday I wasted my whole fucking day me and my aunt repeating over and over all the arguments that were explained until now and today I got like a 4 (I live in italy, this is a shit grade) because I "Did not answer to all questions" because the professor's idea of knowledge is answering awfully but to all questions

[@inksterdoodles11]

I wrote two paragraphs about why i hate myself. why? i missed one question on an assignment

[@jaiden8529]

@@MG-05 I live in Italy too and i feel you my friend. School really doesn't give a fuck about the effort you put in your studies, just the final grade :/

[@avocadeous]

Ikr. I’ve actually become somewhat of a perfectionist. One bad grade gets me down for days, since I’ve always been told that bad grades = bad gcse = a terrible life with little money

[@jeremyklein7021]

It's crazy to me that when you started talking about avoiding risks, I basically had a flashback. My favorite teacher was teaching this technology class, and for one of the units we built robots. I loved it. I loved the actual building, the coding, and how when something didn't work I could change it. When finals came around, he said that anyone who didn't want to take a standard final could build a robot that could complete a simple challenge. I had the exact thought process you described of "That's too much effort and risk. I know I can ace the final, better just play it safe." It sucked because I really wanted to mess with the robots again, but I was already swamped with my other finals and I just made the calculation that taking the easy A would make the other finals easier. So there I was on finals day, trapped in a desk, filling out the little bubbles so fast that I had ample opportunity to stare at the wall and think about how much more fun I would be having if I had built a robot instead. No one else built a robot by the way

[@usernametaken017]

Oh this really drives the point home

[@ojaskalra4863]

It's appalling how a photographic memory will get you way ahead in most schools and colleges than actual intelligence. Every time I do an exam, especially for SST, I get marks cut because of "improper framing of the answer" which is to say that I lose marks because I couldn't quote the school book.

[@SaraWolffs]

That phrasing sounds... really dystopian. Like, I expect to hear that as the explanation given to a student who loses points for not toeing the party line in China.

[@Michelle-ns7vp]

fr tho i got a ''pity mark'' from my tech teacher cause i didn't answer the question ''why do we need to cook food?'' correctly Like the way the book said ig

[@ShinyTillDawn]

Also schools: **expel people for copy-pasting answers because it's "plagiarism"**

[@brandonpeterson3434]

I've had a similar thing. I moved from Canada to the states and the way I was taught math was different. My grade plummeted because I didn't do it right. And the correct answer was not counted because the work was wrong or not shown.

[@jmlkhan5153]

@@brandonpeterson3434 I remember getting docked points on math tests because I was able to do the math in my head, and didn't bother writing the work down. This was so discouraging that now I don't do math anymore, ever.

[@herrscherofsalt1238]

“children grow up learning to walk and talk, but when they get older theyre told to sit down and shut up” -some reddit comment i found

[@ForwardTokage]

r/im14andthisisdeep

[@OptimalOwl]

Important life lessons.

[@savag3guardian]

There is an appropriate time for each. When you have responsibilities, like rent/mortgage, kids if you want/them, there are some things that you just need to do, whether you like it or not. Most people don't *want* to get up and go to work everyday, but money doesn't grow on trees, so that's how we get it.

[@annonomeece6443]

Pretty sure that was said in a captain underpants book

[@user-ut2oo3kx3s]

@@savag3guardian Doesnt the paper for the money come from trees?

[@bm4114]

I was a choir teacher for 5 years and only graded based on whether or not students acted respectfully toward the learning process. I.e. if they were disruptive to the learning/rehearsal. Long story short, everyone got an A and almost all of them learned to or improved their ability to read music without pressure. One principal did not like this approach so he asked me to include more statistics based off of collected dated (testing and assignments). My solution to this was to make up assignments and tests in my grade book and cook the books. Everyone still got an A if they were respectful in the room. I didn’t even force anyone to sing who didn’t want to, because I knew eventually they’d get into it, and they all did. I was blessed to be teaching choir,which let’s face it, no one cares about your choir grade.

[@tbc1880]

@@dueldu70 there's also just how school can make you hate things. School made me hate literature. It wasn't till I had a teacher who basically let the class do whatever I wanted that I got engaged with it and enjoyed it because I was allowed to enjoy and find what I loved in the content itself. If we wanted to the entire class could have been a second recess. Infact sometimes the teacher wasn't just standing by with the off rails discussions and chatter but at times engaged with it and was like screw teaching hows fallout 4? You may call him bad but when we wanted to learn he was there. It was then on I understood what I liked about literature was and why school always made me dislike it. And now it's actually fun and enjoyable for me.

[@qwertydavid8070]

Holy shit a teacher that teaches correctly??? We need mor people like you in the world!!

[@trickstercj4366]

@@tbc1880 I used to love math thanks to how my previous math teachers handled math. Even the tougher ones were endearing to say the least (or had something happen that I'm like karma baby). Whenever my other grades were lacking, Math would usually be crowned as by best grade. Until I went to college where it instantly became this force feeding mountain of a roadblock that no matter how much help I received or how hard I studied those grades in the end prevented me from getting a lick of what I initially wanted as a career choice. The second one of my math professors admittedly said that the math system there was poor to all of her students, I broke and the worst thing was that she wasn't even a horrible teacher. and I pretty much gave up on that career path. Goodness to say I grew to hate math.

[@tbc1880]

@@trickstercj4366 yeah that kinda sucks. I have a similar thing with college math except the classes that blocked me were made of primarily content my field wouldn't used and was a pre requisite to a course that didn't need anything from said class. Didn't help that the going online was more helpful than the tutors. Legit was forced to go there after one exam. Asked for clarification on how I'd do a problem (Wanted a method to figure out how to find something for comparison type tests) and was told I just have to know. Yeah that was a lot of help. Even my major which was in CS killed my love for it and roadblocked me on stuff related to the course not the content. First time the teacher backloaded content at the very end and I figuring 3 weeks wouldn't make up the whole final decided to take the hit there (I wasn't up to it do to extraneous circumstances) and polish what I did very well in the past. Which is how I screwed up the first time with that assignment alone. (Teacher also didn't emphasize the point of the class being optimization and data structures so I missed another assignment based on the knight's journey. Subsequent classes taught better so I'm glad I failed in a way but also had worse assignments where I fought the code the teacher gave more than the questions itself. From the way they gave to read files not working to methods they gave and told me not to change giving errors on some compilers than others it was just a mess. I could take a similar course but in C++ instead of Java but it would change my major. But honestly if I was doing it for myself it would still be a pain but I could have rewrote the code to work for me, wouldn't have had the pressure to try and figure it out so I could take more breaks and do other things and it just would be less of a I'm struggling to solve an issue within a time limit vs I'm struggling to figure something out but I got time and more options. Yeah sometimes you can't just rewrite what your working on if an issue happens but if it never worked in the first place you kinda got to. Weird thing is a lot of the time the stuff should work and worse is the teacher can't exactly do a lot especially with online courses. People try and give their solutions but sometimes it just doesn't work. 3 compilers and updated Java, and issues still occur. It just makes me never want to touch the language again.

[@trickstercj4366]

@@tbc1880 funny because CS was what I was trying to persue in the first place

[@hanzquejano7112]

It's a no win situation for top students. My little sister is one. She got scolded for being noisy by simply asking what she misheard (her hearing isn't that good, but they wouldn't allow her to sit in front). Then there's also the teachers who complained that top students are less sociable than average students and that they prefer to socialize with the latter. Who in the first place pressured top students to be quiet and behaved to the point of paralysis?

[@CheerfullyCynical829]

Teachers shouldn’t be socializing with any students. 😢😢

[@tobistein9831]

If she had a diagnosed disability that the school was aware of via a 504 plan (assuming you're in a US public school), you could fully sue the school through the ADA for not providing accommodations like preferential seating.

[@Clovergem_in_the_snow]

@@tobistein9831 yep! Preferential seating, repeated instructions, and visual supplements to lessons have all been helpful to me.

[@somedragonbastard]

​@@CheerfullyCynical829 maybe a bit too far there bud. I think it's normal for a teacher to casually interact socially with their students, like asking how their day is going or about their hobbies

[@lucyj4304]

I don’t know if she has hearing loss or possibly auditory processing disorder or anything, but as a hard of hearing person, WHY WOULD THEY NOT PUT HER IN THE FRONT IF SHE CAN’T HEAR?! The ONLY reason my HoH ADHD self was able to get through so many classes was with an unobstructed view of my teachers’ faces so I could lip read without distraction. Even without a formal diagnosis, that’s such a ridiculously simple request to deny. Why would a student say they want to sit at the front if they don’t need to/genuinely want to be able absorb the lessons? What teacher isn’t jumping at the chance to help a student be more engaged with the class?!

[@voiceoreason9884]

The main thing that stands out to me: Sure, *let* students work together, but do not *make* students work together. I always hated group assignments and that was a quick way to sap all the life out of an otherwise interesting assignment.

[@skullchimes]

yuh and end up doing all the work yourself cuz everyone else is busy doing nothing

[@voiceoreason9884]

@@skullchimes That didn't happen to me too often, and I think I preferred that to what happened more often, which was my classmates giving me orders that I considered stupid and not accepting any suggestions.

[@DoggyHateFire]

I absolutely loathe group assignments because I have some social anxiety and it takes me a long time to feel comfortable around new people so I just feel awkward and unwanted the whole time. I hate choosing a partner and nobody chooses me unless they're forced to. When I get comfortable around someone I know I'm likable, friendly, and funny, but I just don't have enough time in class. It kinda gets to why I don't agree with some of the points made in this video. "Interesting" is an extremely subjective thing and what is fun and interesting for one student may be pure psychological torture for another. Also, no matter how "interesting" you make a class there's going to be some students who skip the class. There's understandably going to be teens who would rather skip class and have sex, smoke weed, do just about anything else than see some corny teacher be cringe trying to modernize Plato.

[@alleniumcos]

My friend has a project in her robotics class that is late because it was a group project and her partner did no work. And you can’t bring the thing home, it’s one of those school only things.

[@indrickboreale7381]

Most of the time one smart kid did most of the team's job. If you didn't have got one, the situation was on fire

[@Lis-oh1sq]

"The purpose of school was to figure out what the teacher wanted and then give that to them." This is the realest fucking thing and it makes me *furious*

[@xfreja]

LITERALLYYY

[@msi8311]

This is how a lot of people make big money. By figuring out what people want and then making it happen.

[@26183]

@@msi8311 time, context and purpose, my friend.

[@Andy251153]

We are creatures with very strong pattern recognition... I'm not surprised whether we realize it or not, but God damn do I feel stifled in my education because of just feeling like I needed to pass rather than wanting to learn

[@pianofry1138]

That is pretty much how jobs work. That is the point of school to prepare you for jobs.

[@thomasfrewer1328]

When I went to school I hated it. When my mum would ask "How was school today?" I'd answer "Bad" pretty much every time, I had several friends whom I still miss today, I wasn't bullied or anything, I was pretty good in class, good grades and behavior and all that, but there was never any joy. So my mum would say "Well you might not like lessons and work but at least you get to see your friends!" and I'd say "I'd rather not have to go to school just to see my friends." Otherwise she might say "It's the weekend soon!" or "It's the holiday soon!" (we're British, so you guys might call it vacation). I didn't know how to express it at the time, but I hated the idea of spending 5 days out of 7 just waiting for a weekend, and then you don't even get to enjoy the weekend because you have to spend it recovering from the previous week, and preparing for the next. (Having to do homework on weekends certainly didn't help with this calculation.) The thing that made me stop complaining was when she said "Wait until you're in secondary school, it's much more fun and you'll enjoy it." I told myself "I'm just a kid, I guess they must be right, everyone goes to school I suppose it's just a fact of life..." So secondary school comes around and guess what. It's just as bad and I still hate it... The same discussion happens again "The holidays are soon" "You can spend time with your friends" etc. etc... I told myself a second time "I'm just a kid, they must be right, everyone else seems to be enjoying school, I just got unlucky..." At some point I started to lie, she would ask "Did you have a good time at school today?" and I'd say "Yep". I was sick of hearing the same things every time I said I didn't like it, part of me hoped that if I lied to myself I might start to believe it, part of me knew that my mum worried about these things so I didn't want to upset her. So eventually secondary school comes to an end too. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who didn't attend the achievement ceremony (of the people who passed, that is) [I don't want to call it a graduation ceremony because I'm pretty sure that's an American college thing, this was for a European baccalaureate if anyone knows the proper word for it]. I can't deny they did a good job of teaching me, I am pretty good at maths, physics, chemistry, I speak a couple extra languages, I can read a map, I'm slightly more musically educated than the norm... University comes, my teachers had been telling me that university was the place for me, I was looking forward to it. Living away from home for the first time was great, making new friends was great, being responsible for my own timetable and daily routine was great. This lasted about six months until I realised I was just doing more of what I had been hating my whole life, but this time I'm taking on student debt for it. So I dropped out. My parents encouraged me to try university again, so I took a gap year to chill out and tried again. I dropped out a second time. "You've just got to find the right course" someone told me... so I tried a third time and dropped out a third time. The problem was that I was looking for the dream I had been promised when I was in primary school. The "You'll enjoy it when you're in secondary school" promise that had overlapped onto university. I was told I would enjoy it and I didn't. Every assignment I completed was a chore. My dad told me "But you find it fulfilling don't you?" I didn't. When I was 19 years old answering maths questions about chemical reactions and quantum mechanics, it annoyed me just as much as when I was 9 years old and answering maths questions about counting boxes, or trigonometry problems. It was more of the same. At this stage I wasn't able to say "I'm just a kid" any more. I had to do something, and listening to what people were telling me to do wasn't going to work any longer, they obviously weren't right, and hadn't been right all along. I'm now 24 years old, I'm still living with my parents, I've still never had a job, I've dropped out of university 3 times. In the last couple of years of me trying to find something else to do I've taken up hobbies. I gave Duolingo a try after a friend showed it to me. I found that learning languages is actually pretty fun, which makes me wonder why I hated doing it at school so much. I have been making things, board games, models and so on, using my 3d printer. When designing the geometries of the things I print, I need to do a certain amount of trigonometry and I've learned that doing those calculations is actually quite enjoyable also, which makes me wonder why I hated doing it at school so much. Even the simple act of running I've found to be fun... I sometimes wish I had more opportunities to be late for a train so that I'm forced to run and catch it, because running is fun, which makes me wonder why I hated doing it at school so much. Looking back, I see all the things I was made to do as a child, things that I might have enjoyed doing if I hadn't been made to do them... it just makes me sad. Lots of people my age are coming to the "I wish I had listened" stage, where they realise how much of their education they missed out on by misbehaving in class and not doing any work. I like to think I didn't miss out on my education and the only thing I can say about it is that I wish I hadn't listened. Thanks if you've read the whole comment. I don't know how many people are going to read this, but I wrote it just to get it off my shoulders as much as anything else.

[@cakeisyummy5755]

So, how do you earn Money if you don't have a Job?

[@thomasfrewer1328]

@@cakeisyummy5755 let me know if you find out...

[@cloudy772]

Thanks for sharing this

[@goldenegg7447]

even as a student still in highschool, I hate learning in school. It sucks. Learning outside of school is fun. I watched videos learning about advanced calculus on youtube for fun. Later the same year I learned that same stuff in school. Learning on your own and finding what you enjoy is so much better than learning as a part of school. fuck school.

[@lovre7632]

Thank you for sharing this, it is a really nice story

[@SkyMurphy77]

My 5th grade teacher straight up said she wishes she didn't have to give us assessments and tests. 10/10 teacher.

[@Isegawa2001]

It's weird that people assume garbage collection is an inherently "shitty job". Yes, you're going to smell really bad at the end of the day but so will the guys who work at the morgue. The garbage collector keeps human living space clean and comfortable. He improves the functioning of the community and helps with public hygiene. This is honorable, dignified work that shouldn't be looked down upon because it's "unskilled" or "dirty". Edit: By "shitty" I mean it's somehow a "shameful" or "failure" job. I am fully aware that it's exhausting and not at all good for the person in the long term.

[@splash6267]

I work as a maintenance worker in a large retail chain. Its easily seen as the bottom of the barrel almost a shameful job. I thought i didnt want to do a job like that but took it because its what was available to me at the time. Ive worked several dept and a couple different stores through my years and ive never been happier and have decided ill be doing this work into the future until i can establish my career after school.

[@griflet1]

@@splash6267 And then some of the people judging this type of work are doing nothing but scrolling through twitter behind their desk, being useless. As a maintenance worker, everyone will know if you screw up your job, so you can take pride when it is done well. If you can scroll trough twitter and nobody notices, your job is probably rather useless, self-worth probably drops, hence the need to look down on people. My hypothesis anyway. But I do hope people slap me if I ever degrade these base level jobs. By the way, what would you consider a proper name for this category? Low-skill or low-level doesn't seem right to me, base level points at the fact that a lot of people are relying on them, but don't know if there's better words

[@splash6267]

@wannes ceulemans oo interesting theory and question. Honestly i agree, because it is relied on and people who scroll through twitters arent as easily noticed. If i had to change the title i would call it safety worker and hygein management. Sounds fancier lmao! But in reality that is what we are doing, my job isnt only taking out the trash or cleaning the toilettes. Its cleaning the floors to make sure its clean and presentable so no one trips, its cleaning up hazardous spills one shouldnt clean up without training or protective gear. Its disinfecting through a time like corona and having safe and comfortable spaces for associates and managers to have breaks or work in. I would call it low skilled entry level but it doesnt mean its easy work or even not alot of work. I work with someone who doesnt care about his job, who refuses to do what he is asked even by store management. And im left managing most of the store by myself, not necessarily anyones fault but the coworker and if we were fully staffed it would certainly be easier, however attention to detail and being mindful of dirty and germ gathering places is a necessity in a job like mine. I feel happy i can provide a clean and safe space for both customers and associates alike

[@griflet1]

@@splash6267 tnx for the reply, I'd call it 'simple' but not easy maybe. Considering the video, I think it would be really interesting how these types of jobs/this type of work would be dealt with in a different system. I've worked a student job in a supermarket filling shelves and for free in a student bar filling the fridges etc. and in my experience, fact that in the student bar there is no 'boss' and hourly wage, but a group of equals relying on each other to keep the bar running makes everyone much more involved and motivated, even without any pay.

[@nagisa0931]

Fun I found out the local garbage collector makes 30/hour in my local houses

[@Galimeer5]

"If I don't grade attendance, my students won't come to class" "That means your class isn't engaging" That reminds me of some storytelling advice I once got: "If your audience is cheering for the villain, it doesn't mean the villain isn't evil enough, it means your hero is boring" If you're encountering a problem, it might very well be that your approach to the situation is the real issue.

[@misssteak1290]

Yes for real though. I had a really cool teacher back in college. He never once did a role-call, yet everyone still showed up at his class because we enjoyed his teaching.

[@somedragonbastard]

Attendance is hella ableist too. Why should I be punished for being chronically ill?

[@megk1185]

the She-ra reboot being an exception

[@cryptidcrow282]

there’s also the point of motive. if a villain motive is morally better than the hero motive, people are gonna support it. the actions of the villains vs the heroes are important too

[@DanglerSpangler]

I agree with your comment in principle, but the implication that teachers must entertain their students is problematic. The motivation of students depends on the way the material is presented, yes, but it is ultimately their own responsibility to show up. As a teacher, I am in no way able to control what it is students want. So sure, perhaps students might not be excited to take remedial English, but they need the skills nevertheless.

[@adalindenau5035]

"Students need to work together, not be in competition with one another." I've had teachers who not only don't acknowledge that, but seem to be against students helping each other. Just around a week ago, a teacher of mine got mad at and berated a student, because she was helping a girl understand the lesson. They weren't even bothering anyone, they sat together and barely made any noise. I couldn't even notice until the teacher brought it up.

[@emylily8266]

thats so damn weird, teaching ppl through exercises and all that is literally one of the best way to absorb the content yourself.

[@78anurag]

Hello guys welcome back to this video today I'm going to teach you how to commit crimes against humanity and get away with them

[@shadowmoonwalker1554]

Everyone hates my Spanish teacher because we can't talk, he goes through lessons too quick sometimes, and then no one asks questions because he's so damn terrifying. Most kids have a 86 of lower, some already dropped out or switched classes to study hall or something. If we could communicate most of us would definitely have A's. every year up to now, I've had an A in Spanish. If someone were to talk I bet he would flip out and make them write rules or give a lunch detention to those talking. Even my parents don't like him.

[@apolloandwarrior_3229]

@@shadowmoonwalker1554 That dude is the total opposite of Señora. She is so sweet and patient, even if you don't understand the material you can still pass. I'm on my second year of Spanish and I've never had anything bad to say about her. In fact if you ask how to say something in spanish [if it's appropriate] she'll translate it right away. But seriously, no talking, in a language class!? What kind of crack is this guy smoking?

[@shadowmoonwalker1554]

@@apolloandwarrior_3229 I have no idea. We're doing preterite and it's kinda confusing. Where I would normally ask the person next to me, I have to ask the absolutely f*cking terrifying teacher.

[@FrenchCat-tv6bf]

It really is true that above all else, school teaches you to be quiet, obedient, and just like everyone else.

[@fabirkemarian6370]

And remaining ignorant with the rest of the class about the rest of the world. 😢

[@marcmeinzer8859]

I taught back in the 1980s and even then, and even in a suburban parochial school, many of the kids were not quiet or obedient. To all accounts it’s even worse today. So how come school can’t teach most people to be obedient? I would suggest that this is because children are sheltered by the adults to prevent them from harming themselves and that they all end up like Frank Zappa’s pajama people who with their “comfy little footies on the mind” cannot focus owing to all the warm fuzzies which are conferred upon them by all of the well meaning but plainly incompetent adults. It’s easier to focus and take things seriously when you’re being taught something potentially dangerous such as canoeing, where if you screw up you pretty much die.

[@huyphamle159]

That explained why classes aren't allowed to talk

[@marcmeinzer8859]

Good luck getting ordinary kids today to not talk over the teacher in class. Ain’t gonna happen! There might be some discipline in military schools where they have license to mentally and physically brutalize the cadets but since there’s no selectivity or winnowing out of misfits in public school there’s virtually no discipline any more these days. And these days began back in the early 1970s not just with “Gen Z”.@@huyphamle159

[@emilsinclair4190]

​@marcmeinzer8859 good teachers get the respect of there students without the need for discipline.

[@_Morph1ne_]

The one meaningful that thing school taught me is how to succeed at something by putting in the least amount of effort possible

[@yu_cp8978]

Efficiency?

[@brenosilvamorais2510]

@@yu_cp8978 if you consider efficiency as doing everything in the last minute and not actually learning anything, so yes, efficiency

[@yu_cp8978]

@@brenosilvamorais2510 No, but doing tasks succesfully with the least amount of effort is.

[@brenosilvamorais2510]

@@yu_cp8978 it would if you consider school as a business instead of a place to learn and develop

[@yu_cp8978]

@@brenosilvamorais2510 Efficiency is a skill useful for so much things in life. Anyways, I don't want to insist with this since my 1st comment was to show the weakness of OP's argument rather than defending schools. I hated school. I was very unhappy until I got into college. I just don't think grades are the problem.

[@esmepipkin6087]

Gotta love how we're forced to spend the most important parts of our lives being emotionally abused for the sake of learning in a way that is awful for learning.

[@yourself_and_i_music]

honestly there is no drive for learning when the systems like this which is different when you find something you want to do and worse is that we cant change a goddamn thing about this system even though we know whats the flaws and the parents dont give a shit other than we get full grades or not and go as far as abusing their children or even worse in India

[@gummy5862]

@@yourself_and_i_music There is no “good way” of learning if the student does not care for the subject in the first place! You can’t just make yourself like things.

[@yourself_and_i_music]

@@gummy5862 well im pretty sure alot of students don't 'like the subject cause of how its presented to them like how some people hate greens but if they go well with something else they might like it. its how the subject is presented and delivered to us and there are people who don't like that too then they should jut be given more options.

[@78anurag]

We spend 20% of our entire life in school and 33% just by sleeping. Knowing the fact that students are creatures who don't sleep we can add the percentages together and we get: 53% This means that we only get 47% of our entire life remaining, and that is 37.6 years. Out of the promised 80 years of life we only get 38 years to actually enjoy 💀 Edit: I did more accurate calculations by throwing in factors like chores, traffic jam, actually assuming students get sleep, eating etc. And I now arrive at the conclusion that we only have 46.4100596380125% of our life left, about 0.6% decrease than the one I calculated originally. So we finally find that we spend (cue the drum roll): 37.12804771041 years of our life left. Out of the promised 80 years of life we only get 37 years to enjoy 💀 Edit 2: Added in college since you want a job and not starve to death and we have 38.91% left. That's 31 years Edit 3: We actually spend 7% in school (or 13.2% with homework) that means that 38.91% goes up to 45%, which is 36 years. Edit 4: 85% of people hate their jobs so it's most likely you will join them too. 30% of life is spent in job which reduces us to 15% like holy shi- Edit: I did more accurate calculations and got 9.43%

[@gummy5862]

@@78anurag You also have to do homework, hygiene, chores, etc. you get much less than 37.6 years when you factor in all the crap you have to do in life.

[@valenmejia2135]

In college, grades tend to feel like weights. I could get straight A's all semester and a single F makes all the effort worthless in the final grade. Don't even get me started on the teachers that grade on "I like/don't like this" in my major (Visual Design). I just can't understand how you grade creativity and art when it is supposed to be subjective.

[@KyoKyoM99]

there's a flipside to this. i study math in university. only recently did i realize how little i cared about the course material, and that was probably because of the fact i have been exclusively learning remotely since march 2020. my grades have slipped and i've kinda slipped into depression. and i noticed it wasn't because i wasn't learning, it's because i didn't receive the reward of a good grade.

[@HerbaMachina]

Yeah art can only be graded by how effective it is at conveying it's intended affect on the viewer.

[@rockocandyeye]

I'm studying Graphic Design right now. I absolutely hate it because I'm more of an illustrated and concept art person . I don't even bother to get a good grade, just good enough to pass my semester because I only care what I can learn from things I want to learn.

[@yawarapuyurak3271]

Oh, I know the feeling. I've recently realized that because the "art" I made in school wasn't typical, I slowly stopped drawing/sculpting/etc. My teachers wanted us to draw, and we had some projects with clay. However, I loved to draw stick figures, cut them, reinforce them, and use them as action figures. I had Goku SS4(the red with a tail), as well as Vegeta in the same form. Also, I love Origami, I used to make wierd spaceships and always had my pencilcase filled to the brim with them. Now, in university, I just... stopped. I no longer do anything "artistic". The closest thing is the videogame I'm working on, and even then I focus on the logic and programming, not the 3D art. Even my major is software engineering, but to be fair I study it so I can make games in the future lol.

[@koolaid1364]

Oh yeah in art classes offer no creativity. You have to do a project and follow the rubric in order to do well on the assignments. It’s ironic because in art class students are supposed to have the freedom to express their creativity, and instead it’s being suppressed.

[@auroraofclanborealis]

I think a good way to conduct a class would be like a D&D campaign. The teacher(s) have the information and general guidelines of what students need to know, and then they work together to figure out what they want to learn and how to best achieve it.

[@ChiefMakes]

This would be so fun, having other kids wanting to learn what we do and doing it together (or alone) instead of the same exact thing that has existed since 1990 and has barley been changed except for major things that have been proven wrong

[@ChiefMakes]

My school curriculum hasn’t even bothered to change the current date from 2008 to 2023

[@Nenadior]

I think this is how Sudbury schools already work, look it up, it's fascinating and great!

[@esztertakacs737]

I remember back in high school, we had this INSANELY rebellious kid in our class, who absolutely despised the entire school system. He constantly talked about how school teaches close to nothing when it comes to critical thinking, logic and common sense. He also disliked the idea of university, which although I didn't really agree with, I totally understood his points. He'd go to the point where he just wouldn't come to class or refuse to do work. He would also voice his opinions to the teachers. But you know what's funny about this? The teachers almost NEVER argued with him. They completely agreed that this system is effed up, but they couldn't do anything about it, and they explained that they must teach based on a pre-written template. Kinda sucks that even the most passionate teachers are stuck teaching in a way that the system wants them to teach.

[@psychosalad6653]

Do you know what he’s up to today?

[@jackportell4174]

lol after watching the video and also having my own opinions about how AR tests are bad, and how the two are linked because rewards don't work, the guy you're talking about in your comment may become me.

[@MechNominal]

So was this kid learning in his free time I wonder? Was he learning critical thinking skills or was he just regurgitating crap he read online. Like using your comment for instance as a basis for his world-view without putting in any work.

[@jessekwb5035]

@@MechNominal If he didn't take the time to learn on his own, then that could also be because of the school system. Why work on something that won't help you in life when you're constantly told something else that's worse will get you somewhere in life? Having one option that you despise and won't agree with doesn't mean you'll take the less annoying option. This seems like it could easily deter someone if told that all of their work is for naught unless they choose your option.

[@JuanPabloSelvaje]

I’m gonna push back on this. The teachers didn’t argue with him not because he was speaking the pure unadulterated truth but because you shouldn’t argue publicly with disruptive students. A kid who is that rebellious and difficult is a lot less prepared for the real world than he thinks he is.

[@dub-jscrub-j2762]

"My teachers tell us to dream, but don't let me sleep"

[@Prisma_Guy]

That's one of the greatest quotes I've ever heard, did you make it?

[@sorrychangedmyusername3594]

@@Prisma_Guy DN made it

[@astralplains]

@@sorrychangedmyusername3594 DN is truly an inspirational person

[@stonethemason12]

Hmm

[@プロなバカ]

@@astralplains Daniel Novic is a truly amazing person, I could not agree more. DN is amazing.

[@CZsWorld]

Came here to disagree but you had me convinced in the first 2 minutes. I will not be giving grades in the Horror History classroom.

[@Gigglingsiren]

Appreciate it

[@aro1494]

Thank you for doing that!

[@jackbright2125]

Came to disagree, still do, but she's right about a lot of things. Correctly identifies the problem, but not the reason for the problem. The issue isn't that rewards don't work, and that motivation is a myth. The issue is that grades are not a reward. You don't get anything for getting an A, you get punished for getting an F. That's not a reward.

[@FreshApplePie]

​@@jackbright2125 disagree with you here, it isnt punishment either, rewards "work" to an extent, but rewards still ruin things for us, and career artists especially are very aware of this as we have to walk the line between creativity and business. these days, you'll hear a lot of would-be artists or creatives saying "I'll never be as good as X or Y" or "why isn't my work getting any recognition?", and while not money, these things too are rewards, anticipated rewards or potential work done for potential attention or belief that you have achieved a certain level of skill. illustration in particular takes years to learn and master, and it has a very long turnover if you want to see progression in your own work, and people would come to me and keep making these comparisons and mistakes of looking at their own work, saying things like "what is the point of creating if nobody likes it?" Well, as anyone who deals with social media knows, there are ways to work around it, but you can't completely control who likes or doesn't like your work, and you can't command the attention that you get from it. It is one of the most brutal forms of validation of your original work, and you are essentially trusting strangers to tell you that the time you spend on it is worth it. For these people, I would tell them the same thing over and over again, you kind of have to do it cause you wanna do it - your ideas are unique to you and because of that, you want to be the one to bring your own ideas and creativity to life, your motivation needs to come from yourself, because you can't rely on others to reward you for this; you have to want it for yourself. This is most stark and obviously example that I've seen over and over again, and admittedly, anecdotal, but for those who have embraced this idea, I have also seen make the most progress and are the most happy with their own creations. They had an idea, and they wanted to be the one to carry it out and see it finished - simple as that. For anyone who wants to be a career artist, you musn't let the career aspect overtake your intrinsic motivation, or else as Zoe puts it, you will end up hating that as a job too. this leads me to believe the problem is the conditioning that nothing is worth doing without reward, something I've had to unlearn in order to get the most out of enjoying my work and hobbies. I can tell you that I love my work, and many others can't say the same because what they do isn't for the sake of their own interests or curiosities; this is why having 1000 times the money of the average joe doesn't make you 1000 times happier, and leading a fulfilling and experienced life is one of the best things you can do with your time on Earth, and that is most certainly not because you have to spend 9 hours every day just so that you can live. you can never rely on someone to reward you or to not punish you for meeting the minimum - you can, however, understand your own feelings with regards to your own work, and find worth in the things that you do for yourself. The idea that failure is the worst thing that could possibly happen to someone is poison for the mind, sometimes cripplingly so for those who are under a lot of pressure from their peers or society.

[@riel0144]

@@FreshApplePie how do you unlearn reward-based learning?

[@HarpMuse]

When I was 7 my parents bought my mom an old upright piano. There was a beginning piano book in the bench. I pulled it out and taught myself to play the piano and read music. Then my parents had me take formal lessons. There were graded recitals with report cards given after each recital. Many of my marks were “C”s. So I thought I was just very average. Fast forward to my early 30’s. I was cleaning out an old chest and found my recital cards. In very tiny print at the bottom was a legend. Turns out a C meant “excels at”. So all those years I thought I wasn’t good enough to pursue music for a career, which is what I wanted to do. It’s taken a long time to believe in myself as a musician, and some days I have doubts, but I am finally doing what I love.

[@amyrenee1361]

Good for you dude ❤

[@thatoneguy9582]

i mean good fucking shit my guy but also thats a _really_ stupid grading system,

[@jacobschiller4486]

What kind of asshole gives kids grades for music lessons?

[@taiguy53]

A grade is just product quality. You learn to memorize and replicate. That's pretty much how modern schooling is. The grade just shows how well you're able to perform rather than really learn. Hence the reason why most parents can't really help their children with their school homework, because they forgot. You're taught to only know and memorize the important stuff needed to pass the test at the end, but you end up walking out with a grade and losing that knowledge because it is no longer needed.

[@lusciouslocks8790]

100% I would absolutely bomb even a basic chemistry test, and it’s only been 4 years

[@justanothereconomist198]

I think this boils down to how someone values what they are being taught. I operated many of undergraduate and some masters classes with this framework of learning, but only under the rationalized expectation that given what I planned on doing would not justify the need for it. My mode of learning for things that I did value and plan on using was very different..... Also, I think mode of teaching is very different depending on educational level. Try telling a PhD in a experimental science background that everything they wrote and researched was just memorizing papers and spitting it back into a thesis....

[@taiguy53]

@@justanothereconomist198 It pretty much does yes. Schooling in general forces students to learn core subjects when they're typically the ones that are less desirable, compared to the non-core classes/electives that students are free to choose. It's fair that basic knowledge in reading, writing, and arithmetic is important, but when a student doesn't like a particular subject, they'd tend to either do the bare minimum to pass the class, or memorize what they can to get them a grade they aspire to get. But each student is different. They all learn differently and like different subjects/classes. A lot of factors go in to the education of a student. There are cases where students do well in a subject they despite, but it was because they liked the teacher that was teaching it.

[@jfbbridurnfbbfbbhhvggghvfkhfuj]

Yeah, the only thing people memorize in school is math because it actually may be useful, same with basic English and some other languages.

[@demi4710]

I know, my best friend Orla shoved all the adjectives, big words, noun phrases and all other things she could into her work, and it was the most cringeworthy and hard-to-read paper I've ever read. I prefer to go more minimalist style, instead of "The amazing lovely bright blue sky shined as my glowing beautiful amber eyes shone in the lovely sky" I write more like " The sapphire sky glowed as my ethereal amber eyes stared longingly into the sun", using more sophisticated words to fuse that wordy sentence together. (lol i just realized this sounds like a grammarly ad)

[@drrocketman7794]

"Failure is good" "The grade doesn't matter " Then why do I still have nightmares about failing tests when I'm 42?

[@coldeed]

Because you are immature.

[@legiovictorum]

@@coldeed because he was traumatized

[@coldeed]

@@legiovictorum that's pathetic and overdramatic, like a crying child. Edit: this is overly harsh way of putting it, so I understand if you hate the way I said it. I do believe it to be true, and i will not hide from my own poor choice of words.

[@lone_stick]

@@coldeed you should be a Microsoft browser, because that was Edge-y as hell

[@coldeed]

@@lone_stick it's called honesty. It doesn't make you an edgelord just because someone will cry over it.

[@fati2487]

in my experience, the most devastating part about education was cheating. I'm generally a fast learner and took interest in 80% of my classes. but even in the subject that I knew well and would get a good grade, I would cheat. because at the end of the day no one cares about the knowledge or the interest, grades were more important. and now I have A+ for history in my transcript, but know little to nothing about actual history, while my very knowledgeable classmate has a B

[@tiga8600]

I always cheated when I got stuck and jsut wanted the layout of the problem bot the answer. I've always could get the math answer just fine but I cant do all to well the mumbo jumbo that goes on with re arranging the whole thing

[@Adam-pc2cm]

Even when I wasn’t “cheating,” I rarely felt like I was learning. Instead, I was just cramming and doing whatever was necessary to get a good grade and forgetting everything a week later.

[@themushroominside6540]

Just last week i got an F on an exam because i got one question out of 50 total questions was worth 30 Points out of the total 100. I love biology but that F for that one question really stings especially since i got every other question correct. I hate weighted grades which make you feel dumb for something so trivial. I am passionate about biology and i really do want to get a degree in biological sciences, but passion and knowledge isn't what grades show, its a score that determines how well you can do tests that somehow determines if you get a degree or not.

[@-............................h]

I never felt comfortable cheating, so I stopped doing work and dropped out after they began illegally marking me absent despite being present. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rp7VopyCjc-UobM

[@titantanic7255]

Bruh same I know everything about history and I have a C in it just for turning it in late

[@approachingetterath9959]

god, the motivation bit hit home for me. i used to draw so much, back when my only reward was the joy of the process. nowadays i barely draw and when i do i am extremely slow and i struggle. i'm crippled by perfectionism and my reward being "you did it"-points, approval from peers and maybe some more popularity so i can use art to earn money on the side. the process has become agonizing instead of fun. it is so hardwired that i can't get rid of it, no matter how aware i am.

[@CyborgLuv]

I disagree with the "motivation is a myth" comment in the title. Alot of us tired and depressed folk have big dreams but don't wanna do it, unless we have motivation to do it. If we don't have motivation to get up and get to something we wanted to be in life, we're better off just becoming hermits.

[@vicg2652]

Used to be a nurse, made a truly stupid amount of money, and still quit and went to law school because I hated it. Can confirm there’s no amount of money that will make you like a job you hate. Also, this is the perfect video to watch while I wait for my constitutional law grade.

[@Yellowredstone]

Is the reason people become nurses for the money or is the demand for those types of jobs really high? I always see kids in my grade who say they are going to be a nurse/doctor/psychologist/etc. but I never hear them say why.

[@SoggycereaI]

@@Yellowredstone Well, those jobs are just some of the well known ones lmao so they're commonly said just because whichever it is, is the better one of the small bowl and more steady and expecting one to get into. And then also for a lot of people it's those that are pushed by people around them, which is mostly for the money and high-title aspect. Lots of those jobs are not very demanding in the hiring apartment, which makes sense for what I said above. Yet of course obviously, there's just some that want to be one of those jobs just because they like it.

[@chadnorris8257]

I'm in a similar boat. There's a factory in my town that pays better than any other job here. It's not even hard work. Thing is, they expect you to work 12+ hours a day, up to 6 days a week. When they first opened up, it was 7. What good is money, if you have no free time to enjoy it?

[@Khann_2102]

@@Yellowredstone i think that's because those jobs are mostly the only things those kids know.

[@Kikkatar.]

Mood. Except I don’t earn enough to go to classes either.

[@CivilChev]

My best friend of over a decade killed himself because his grades were dropping in college and he honestly thought he would never be able to succeed in life because school never taught him that learning from your mistakes is the most important part of education.

[@penbot6806]

im sorry for your loss

[@whateveridopissesyouoff]

I'm sorry for that. I hope you're okay.

[@yurichtube1162]

I know his feelings extremely well. He wasn't strong enough mentally to survive the experience. A pity. May he rest in peace.

[@h3xad3cimaldev61]

As the 69th like to this comment I say rest in peace

[@hotchocolate2478]

May he rest in peace.

[@whyisgamora4191]

Views on the American schoolsystem, from a European: Personally, I think that the US schoolsystem fails their students most by having the grade carry-over system that currently exists. Your grades in highschool determine what programs and schools you're gonna get into. In other words, your most irrational, impulsilve and reckless years determine your future. This is utterly *insane* and so so unfair for many students who are already disadvantaged (low income family, unstable environment, bad in certain topics in HS..) Where I live (Belgium), your high school grades do not matter in your university application process. Every student (with a HS diploma) can enroll in any major in any university. Extreme example: a student who followed the most practical form of schooling in highschool (i.e. welding, masoning etc.) can in theory enroll in a university physics major without any problems. Why is this good? Your future is no longer determined by your past, but by the present. Any mistakes or unfortunate events that dropped your grades in highschool will have no effect on your further education as long as you graduate with a HS diploma. Obviously, most people in practical schools have no interest (or have the intellectual ability) to follow a 5-year university program like physics, BUT if we do have the odd-one out who is capable and interested in doing this, they can. If they can pass their exams in the program, they will succeed. Obviously, this means that the first year in university & college is a year in which a lot of people will fail if they choose a major that's too difficult for them, but at least they got the chance to try. I also see a lot of Americans raising concerned about the quality of the education and the quality of universities if they let everyone in, but that's got nothing to do with it. I.e. Belgium is a very small country with only a handful of universities (11 universities) yet 6 of them score in the top 300 worldwide & 2 of them score in the top 100 worldwide.

[@crisptomato9495]

In America high failure rates make universities look bad and less people will apply to them. The main goal of universities is money, and if they start ignoring high school records and let anyone with a high school diploma in they can’t suck every penny out of their students as more will drop out or fail and less will apply in the first place. It’s sad but first and foremost post secondary education is a business in North America.

[@wafflesthearttoad6916]

I suck at English grammar, it makes no sense. I don’t really see why it matters that I know given that I want to go into a field that doesn’t require needing to know what an adjective or adverb is.

[@lane1776]

None of what you said is true. Congratulations

[@opuntia33]

@@lane1776 Are you saying that they're wrong about their education system in the country that they live in? Or that the future of your schooling shouldn't be determined by your most immature years? Or that people shouldn't be allowed to try to enter a university regardless of their high school grades? If you don't live in the same country as them and you haven't participated in their education system, then you can't really tell them that they're wrong about how it mechanically functions. As for the second two, if that's what you're saying they're wrong about, then those are some hot takes and you're disgusting.

[@theshatteredseas]

@@lane1776 damn

[@AdamTheCoop1]

Hooray for deciding that fear and punishment are problematic sources of motivation and for some of us choosing not to pass along generational trauma. "iT hApPeNeD tO mE aNd I tUrNeD oUt AlRiGhT"

[@funnychannel5068]

Man I hate when people say that. Especialy when you realize it is actually a lie. They say it because they are trying to convince themselves and you that it is the right way. "It HaPpEnD tO Me AnD I TuRnEd OuT AlRiGhT" No my lad you did not

[@chaoticcow4357]

​​@@funnychannel5068 exactly, functioning and functioning well are two different things. yes people who are taught like this can function, but not in way people should be able to.

[@sarah12232]

@@funnychannel5068 i think its also because they don't want to accept that all the pain they went through was wrong and not necessary, that they were wronged or wronged themselves

[@funnychannel5068]

@@sarah12232 I agree. I might now understand them a bit. It is kinda hard to admit that you suffered for nothing and to deal with it. Thx for letting me know man 👍

[@z.z.4752]

In middle school I took a health exam where I needed to label a student’s physical, mental and social health as “good” or “bad”. One scenario had a student go jogging with his friends at least once a week, and he had also felt good about getting a B average for the year. I marked all three as good…and I got marked wrong because according to the teacher, “his mental health is bad because he was okay with a B average, he has no ambition and needs to know that A is the only acceptable average” This was supposed to be the second best middle school in my district. And they wonder why their environment is so unstable.

[@AnimeRayanne]

Wow that is so not okay. Accepting a B I so much better than beating yourself up over failure or pushing yourself so hard for an A. In the first place that seems like a werid exam to me. Things aren't always so black and white. Just good or bad.

[@castoria4698]

What.the.fuck

[@ansrfururactions]

I feel anger building inside me from reading that. A b is meant to mean above average, not "you lack ambition".

[@psychott6]

Excuse me??? That is NOT how the world works, you don't label things as "good or bad" like that???

[@sonjawalkerreactionscommen3501]

I was working on an English assignment in grade 12, and I couldn't understand the instructions. All the teacher would keep saying to me is, "Read through them again." I told her that I did. Over and over.

[@justjulss8365]

i had this substitute teacher who let me and my friend make a final voluntary project to improve our grade. We could decide what the project was about, it just had to be in the centuries we studied. We asked if we could build our city's cathedral in Minecraft (in case he didn't value that as learning) he was very excited about that idea and let us do it. I learned so much more in those 3 days about cathedrals that i ever had. We would spend our looking at all the pillars and what they supported, the outside arches that stopped the walls from falling, and the windows between every arch that let light into the building without making it collapse. It's the best project I've made, half of the time we would log in just to keep building for fun and completely forgot about the bonus points. I still visit the server from time to time :))

[@kunkaan6248]

Wow, that sounds amazing! Could I see how it looks like?

[@athreyars3954]

I really wish teaching was like this...I'm glad you had this great experience

[@Polygonetwo]

That's heckin' rad and I wish I got to do more like that.

[@kappasunn7290]

I just beat omori and now I see it everywhere, crazy coincidence

[@21_jadhav_rajendra84]

Thats really an amazing idea why is history not taught this way

[@Hellblade1284]

When I was 14 I once got an automatic F on a math test because the teacher was 100% convinced I cheated. Why? Because I did long division in my head without jotting down the steps. Wouldn't give me the chance to prove myself either. :/

[@connorconnor2421]

The hell?

[@faet1563]

Now that's some bs right there

[@jzyjewski]

I remember math classes in middle school taking 10 pts off my test grades for not showing work. So what did that motivate me to do? Spitefully refuse to show my work. Good motivation.

[@connorconnor2421]

@@jzyjewski lmao gottem

[@milx7210]

well if the instructions told you to write down the steps, thats on you. But otherwise, you should've just called them out, dont be afraid to yell either because teachers won't be afraid to cut you off while you're making your point

[@CrowAkechi_The_Luminary]

Despite being good at English and not doing any studying for midterms, I passed all my English classes, though physics was low, at that point my parents said it was fine because I was absent for a majority of school thanks to illness, they never got mad at me for failing Chinese mathematics or Chinese history, so far the latter is doing good but Im still struggling with the former, and I can barely get my mind off of anything, stop listening to anything without being fearful and anxious of failing, to the point that I want to just stop going to school, to just stop going outside, and I just want to curl up in a ball and disappear, I just want it to stop

[@carolinamontiel2525]

Im in university and I feel like this. I had deans list last semester, but now I can’t even get sleep on most weekends and this ultimately lead to me getting burnout.

[@brandonkim8423]

I was a straight C student my whole life and failed a dozen college classes. I'm going to be graduating soon and got an "Intern of the Year" award at my last internship. I play several instruments, have many hobbies from sculpting to drawing to cooking. My friends are few but we'd die for each other. It took me most of my life to learn that those letters on the report card don't define who I am. It took me most of my life to learn to study to better myself rather than for the grades that I'd get. It took me most of my life that I actually am a pretty smart guy with a good heart, not a worthless idiot who shouldn't have been born.

[@poppagBallZ97]

😊

[@starryyynightzzz4691]

As an average student myself, this really made me feel better about myself. My parents have always instilled in me that I have to get good grades to have a good life, but this one paragraph has opened my eyes a bit. Thank you for that :)

[@Rikorage]

I feel you, man. You know things suck when you are told you're possibly getting held back in goddamn kindergarten. I was that kid, always asleep, bored, picked on. It was like that for years, dropped out near the first quarter of 9th grade, and went back because I didn't know if juvenile hall was the place I wanted to be at the time. Made the most of it until 11th, and crammed like crazy for the 2nd half of 12th grade, went from almost all Fs to a 3.0 average in that time. I didn't want to repeat that experience for another year. Start of college felt great, I was doing great, but let pressures around me ruin that, and ended up dropping out, went to a vocational school that took 4 years of my life and put me $38,000 in debt with nothing to show for it, and almost 9 years after that I'm picking up the pieces of all that. Finally have a job I can feel good-ish about, something that isn't trying to sell more than what it's got, something I don't have to fake how great it is. I hope to get more room to breath in the near future, and I'm always grateful I can even have the chance of getting to do what I want now.

[@emanueljames7801]

I'm sorry you felt like that. School is as much a social place as a academic one. Of you please people you will perform better also it's not all about iq. It's important that kids learn to find what they ARE good at, and build on that.

[@AV-tm5zf]

B and C students are genuine. They can take the world and make sense of it. We aren't just dreamers we are the DOERS! So call me a B/C student. Im ok with grading because its how you acclimate that to the real world.

[@SpasticSpelunker]

Creativity is punished in schools. Children are not rewarded for trying something different in most cases but are instead given a bad grade. This indoctrinated them quickly that any creative experimentation is risky and could jeopardise their grades. They stop trying to do something different and instead repeat the same thing over and over again.

[@junwei8480]

used a different method not taught and lost 2 of the 4 marks in math lol!!

[@Clover_knows_pets]

I, going into 9th grade, have gotten F- on multiple math assignments just for solving the equations differently, I got every single question correct but since I solved them differently I failed. Luckily I have moved to a much better school, but still I catch myself questioning if I'm solving the problems "in the correct way"

[@Nylak-Otter]

Math is the excuse here, but the problem is misunderstanding. They were asking you to show how you would use a certain form of calculation and that you understand it. They didn't want the correct answer to the problem without you showing that you understood the assigned calculation. The test is over methodology, not being able to come up with something in your head. More difficult and involved problems may arise where you can't just do it the easy way. Once I figured that out, easy 100% on every assignment and test, no problem.

[@charleswest6372]

Y I quit going after 6th grade. Its worthless. Homeschool is the best way to learn.

[@lumpchunker5516]

I find creativity is embraced in schools if you just let the teacher know what you're trying to do ahead of time. I completely blew a big assignment in 6th grade, not because I didn't do the work, but because I went with an approach that the teacher hadn't asked for. I discussed the project with my teacher after the bad grade, and she got it. But how the hell was she supposed to know what I was doing if I deliberately wasn't following instructions? Teachers have 30+ kids to educate every single day. They want us to sit down and shut up DURING CLASS TIME. They WANT us to come to them to get clarification after class.

[@AndaraBledin]

The danger of grading: My brother very quickly determined that if he got good grades, he'd be expected to keep getting good grades and then his friends would make fun of him. So, his scholastic history would be him getting barely passing grades and then slowly climbing until he was getting actively _good_ grades at which point he'd realize he was gaining achievements at his actual level, and his grades would immediately tank to start the process over again. Not only did he not want to be mocked for getting good grades and being seen as a nerd, but he realized that if he stayed mediocre, he would be expected to be mediocre and there would be no risk he could disappoint anyone because they didn't expect anything out of him, so he made sure that he never achieved beyond that level.

[@desotaku5202]

My school life was different, but similar in result. I skipped most of school (what americans would call highschool) but after a couple weeks i showed to write an A. So most of my grades were A's, but the infrequent attendance made my final grades C's. I just couldn't handle school, i was quick to learn, but none of the topics made me stay for longer than 2 days. It felt like a dictatorship i had to flee from constantly, not a place where i could develop myself

[@Mauzeah]

I USED TO DO THIS TOO!!! I had big fights with my parents through middle school because I once made the mistake of telling them "If I get bad grades, people won't keep holding me to an impossible standard." For the rest of my K-12 career they threw that comment in my face as proof that I was lazy, when I was just trying to survive.

[@safala]

I sometimes wish I had done this. Being a smart and straight A's student came with it's perks but those perks weren't worth losing my creativity and my ability to learn the things I want to learn.

[@IshtarNike]

Is this attitude still common? Seems like a thing of the last century. Students with good grades are admired or grudgingly respected here. Seldom bullied unless they're weak/awkward/ugly. Grades are not the determining factor.

[@desotaku5202]

@@IshtarNike depends on the class, and their *class*

[@linuxdragon57]

“In her place was an anxious teenager who saw school as a barrier to her future; or just a means to an end. And who had missed all of the learning that was supposed to be happening there. School it seems had gotten in the way of her education.” Although I am a few years older than a teenager, this phrase describes how I feel about school as I attempt to slug through my last 6 college courses.

[@SimsyHazel]

I used to be a Maria. A curious intellectual child with a persisting thirst for knowledge. Now I fucking hate learning if its school related

[@mimipeahes5848]

This video is so healing. I was a “good student” who could “easily have all A’s” but left school feeling dumb and worthless because my learning style and mental illness didn’t mesh well with how we were graded. Both times in my life where I felt the most suicidal ideation were after failing classes following a major depressive episode. And the crazy thing is pretty much none of the skills I suffered to develop in school are actually helpful in the workplace environments I’ve been in. So thanks for the video! It’s definitely something I plan on sharing.

[@lindsay6518]

SAME. I failed every class except the ones where the teachers cared. I managed to SLIDE by mediocre grades wise and get into university (i live in canada) and it was only THEN that I realized the joy of academic learning and discovery. I loved it so much and I got my first real A's there. And my share of lower grades due to deficits from my highschool education (teachers neglecting to teach skills that are supposed to be standard like ESSAY WRITING).

[@Mauzeah]

I constantly got told by adults, "You're too smart to be having grades like these!" All it did was make me feel worse, and it also gave me no hints to how I was supposed to improve them if I was apparently so "smart." I wonder how many kids with this experience now have mental illness or are neurodivergent?

[@The_Keeper_of_Names]

that's basically what's happening to me now. mental health isn't meshing with doing poorly when i know i can do exceptionally well with a bit of work grades wise

[@milanaleksic9237]

Same, i'm a burned out fresman in high school getting ready to fake not feeling good just because i don't want to school this week because it's just too stressful and i can't take it

[@AventurineHehe]

Same with me, now I’m just trying to learn instead of getting good grades, I’m to sick and tired of everything grades and competition.I heard from some one about how when you learn and understand that thing or topics you’ll eventually get good grades because you understand it but if you try to memorize it you’ll only forgot it. So now just don’t care no more like there so much great things in the world and I’m worrying about homework that’s not done? Just wasting my time

[@bruhspenning]

I have never been motivated by good grades, but I have been extremely demotivated by a bad grade, which made me scared of going to school which made my grades even worse. I hate grades

[@allisthemoist2244]

Sorry that we designed a meritocracy that doesn't tell the less deserving that they're just as good.

[@bruhspenning]

@@allisthemoist2244 do you understand what meritocracy means? Stress causing worse grades doesn't make anyone less smart or less deserving. Anyway, thank you for adding nothing useful to the conversation

[@allisthemoist2244]

@@bruhspenning meritocracy doesn't mean what you apperently think it does. You seem to think that, if stress can ruin someone, it doesn't make them less deserving. I took the SAT several times to get a good enough score to try for Harvard. I can understand how stress would make someone do worse, but having stress lower performance indicates that they are not a grade A student. It's like how some incredibly mentally strong people can't become navy seals because of physical conditions. Grade A means everything about you is attuned towards successfully performing. If things like stress can ruin your grade, you are not grade A. Unfortunately, jobs demand that people perform well during stressful scenarios, thus stress management being tested for is useful.

[@MrMikeDao]

@@bruhspenning then why don’t you improve yourself to make better grades? Is that how you’re going to be as an adult, demotivated to do anything when you’re told you didn’t do it right?

[@bruhspenning]

@@allisthemoist2244 "Today, *meritocracy* is often utilised to refer to social systems, in which personal advancement and success are primarily attributed to an individual´s capabilities and merits." (Wikipedia) If you see the use of school as preparing someone to take the SAT, then it could be seen as a meritocracy, but I don't see it that way. I believe school should teach problem solving and enstue general knowledge. I am a performing musician and don't have stress to perform in front of around 800 people, but I do have stress to take test. Tests aren't something you really have to do after uni, so I believe stress management being tested is useful, but it shouldn't be tested for during the testing of knowledge. I wouldn't know how you could test information without giving stress, but I believe the way it is done now isn't the right way.

[@custard1062]

yeah this hit hard, i’ve lost my passion for writing. i used to come up with stories all the time as a child, explaining storms with dragons and the wind with fairies. i miss that. i’ve won awards for my descriptive writing, i can write an english teachers wet dream, and i’m proud of that, but i miss being able to create freely, without worrying about metaphors and synesthesia and how cohesive my work is; i want to create without an audience again, but i’ve become my own critic.

[@Mateo-xs3uy]

this was me when i was younger. I didnt worry about how many words I had to write or how my paragraphs were structured. I could write stories and stories and I genuinely had fun. Now, i'm getting bad grades in english because I just dont enjoy writing anymore and feel discouraged when I actually write something I like and get a bad grade on it because its not "structured right".

[@alleniumcos]

I’m reading a book called Truly Devious and found a quote that stuck with me. I’ll see if I can copy it: “I wrote the first book and then I *forgot how to write.* It used to be that I would sit and write and I would go into some other world-I could see it all. I was totally in another place. But the second it became something I had to do, something in me broke. It’s like I used to know the way to some magical land and I lost the map. I hate myself. So no, I don’t want to talk about it.” This quote is from a person who got into the same prestigious school as the main character for writing an amazing book, but I just think it matches school and anything you do well outside of school super well. (Any bolded words or words with asterisks around them are meant to be italicized, I forgot how to do that on KZbin) Edit: The book escalated quickly, and there is a kiss scene with no context. It’s a little weird but I’ll give it time since I’m only around halfway through

[@jayak8217]

This is exactly why I didn't want to study journalism in college. I knew that if someone had to tell me what to write and how to write it I would lose my love for writing. Because of college I've also lost my love for reading. The books they make us read are so dull and exhausting that you don't have the energy to do your own reading anymore. I can't wait till I graduate so I can get my loves back.

[@gumbo34]

“I can write an English teachers wet dream, and I’m proud of that” why did that make me laugh so hard

[@jiyagarg6566]

"but ive become my own critic" pls i have to see your work

[@grubskies4221]

I have not looked at my grades in two months. Compared to when i constantly checked my grades, i noticed multiple things 1. My overall mood has increased. 2. I've been paying attention to smaller things in class a lot more, learning more in general 3. Ive been focusing a lot more due to my better mood, and I've been much more talkative and interested in what im learning in class, feeling more excited when walking into school

[@its_5elwyn]

i wish i also do that but i'm in hs already

[@Capbloxian]

I don’t really think that’s a good idea

[@CheerfullyCynical829]

So what do you want to do for a career? Which college do you want to go to?

[@codexaeterna]

My wife teaches at a college that is heavily implementing ungrading. It really breaks kids' brains since they've been so indoctrinated in High School that grades are the only thing that matters. We need to teach the next generation to be truly critical thinkers, not just good test-takers.

[@dandeliond.3560]

fully agree. when I got out of school I was so deeply insecure about my own abilities that I wasn't confident enough to apply for a job.I was too much of a perfectionist. Got some serious mental health problems as a result. And now me having graduated means nothing anymore. I have the papers to prove I did have an education. but I no longer have the will to tough it out on a job where everything is focused on being creative on preformance. That, and the social workplace I work at now takes way better care of my socialemotional needs than any paid job probably could. I just really wish there was a better system in place that focussed more on individuals strenghts and weaknesses than preformance. And that actually gave more guidance towards job stability.

[@sixwolves1202]

wrong, grades dont matter, they're just there to "motivate us" when we get bad grades, it just makes us feel worse about ourselves, if we get a decent grade, we're ok, a good one, we feel good like we actually did something, the school and college systems are flawed beyond all belief

[@nardalis4832]

What if one shrink the grading system where only "good" and "bad" exists? No middlegrounds, if you would get "bad" it would just mean you need to learn abit more, but doesn't have to specifically say exactly how bad it was. Personally, I didn't care much about grades. I did but I wouldn't take it to heart. I would just continue with my usual work pace without trying to reach a goal in mind.

[@codexaeterna]

@@nardalis4832 Ungrading has a system similar to this. It's more like "understands the material", "is close to understanding but needs improvement", and "doesn't understand the material."

[@usmansmir]

My friend and I are 29. He got like a 3.6 GPA in Engineering and works as a wall painter now. I flunked out and worked for Meta as a software engineer III and now as a VP at JP Morgan

[@Rainbow-Reilly]

"The moment you take away the reward, they have no reason to keep doing it." At the end of every school year, I got an award for perfect attendance. Until one year when I was disqualified, because I had to leave class early so I could seek medical attention after being injured. It made me realize the school didn't care about rewarding effort, only results. My attendance dropped signifi after that.

[@zrspangle]

@@ronanzwa3443 excused absence still disqualifies you from perfect attendance

[@cheatbluevii9123]

Damn

[@ОлексійКупранець]

@Callum Smith why do i imagine lemongrab saying that UNACCEPTABLE in his signature way?

[@aloe7794]

Whoever thought of giving rewards for attendance in class is super dumb In what world would people be rewarded for simply having better luck than others by not being sick, injured or understandably not being aware of school functioning during a day because say, lessons were moved to a certain hour and something mixed up and they're apparently earlier or it wasn't just really announced?

[@mrslagowhoreusrex6300]

@@aloe7794 I grew up in a poor family background & can agree my parents didn't always have the money so I could travel into school so my attendance was never perfect

[@izabelamlf9961]

As silly as this must sound... This totally explains why I can write 10k words in a language that is not even my own of a silly little fan fiction, but will procrastinate until the last seconds to write a single one page essay for a grade.

[@kitsuneakage22]

exactly, is the passion and interest, school doesnt feed them, it rewards memorization and timed questions/projects which pressure us to do well but not feel well about the product we arent invested bc its not our interest

[@mym64]

I wrote 10000 of fanfiction in an hour and 100 of my homework...

[@ghostlyyyyyy]

As a non english speaking person who likes writing characters AND is a big procrastinator, this is so true

[@easports2618]

Pls show story idk english not two strong 💪🏻

[@numberstheidiot]

I never thou about it that way, but now that I do i see why I do the same thing. It appears i am not the only one who has once questioned why they put more effort into their own stuff over school.

[@Yuti640]

Here’s what grades meant to be i basically barely passed everything in school, right on the line Passing for me, meant not getting the consequences for not passing It meant not needing to suffer more under a system i hate It wasn’t a joyous moment of accomplishment, it was a moment of relief, a moment of avoiding consequences

[@theexpress7448]

As a student who has struggled with ADHD my entire life, I have had so many experiences where everyone got a pizza party or extended lunch, and I was stuck sitting in the corner by myself. I already had a hard time making friends, so this just felt so isolating. One of my most traumatic school experience was also the day I realized I can’t let the system change who I am. I was tapping my pencil on my water bottle to the beat of an imaginary song, and my teacher comes over and takes it and my pencil away, and starts tapping my head with the pencil in front of the whole class while yelling, “this is what the water bottle feels when you do that, so for the love of all things good and holy, zip it and shut up.” I used that rhythm I had and used it for something greater. Today, I’m a musician and a pianist who is grateful that my younger self never stopped tapping his songs, humming his tunes, and creating the foundation for something far more important than learning to shut up. Thank you

[@nobodyinparticular9640]

teachers that pulls this kinda bs should be shot on the spot

[@XxQueenChristinaxX]

As a musician with ADHD I really appreciated this story. Thanks.

[@ajrwilde14]

that was assault, I hope your parents complained

[@connorconnor2421]

can i hear the original tune

[@rejectedcopy4733]

I remember my teacher yelling at me because I had my drawings stuck in one of the books we were using and they fell out I wasn't even drawing during class, but apparently that didn't matter Still feels so unfair man

[@rheiagreenland4714]

"The problem isn't the people, it's how they're treated." Well said.

[@SF-bh7rd]

lmao no. Non-whites when left completely alone will make mud huts and can't even invent the wheel on their own. We know this from history already

[@jucom756]

One of the best kinds of teachers to have is the one that doesn't teach like a teacher, but explains like a passionate scientist.

[@AkashWShah]

This really really resonates with me.I think it's the reason I'll gladly watch lessons on KZbin about history, economics, physics, chemistry, writing, literature, computer science, and honestly just about anything just to learn, but I only enjoy the teachers who have fun with their own class and clearly love what they're teaching. One of the reasons I think is because a lot of people making videos on KZbin do so because it is their passion project, and even if it's their job they're mostly judged on how much the audience enjoys and feels like they learned from the videos but teachers are judged and payed based on the grades their students receive.

[@Blazo_Djurovic]

There is a trap in that. Someone on a high level might not be able to grasp where someone on the low level might have issues. Since for the scientist it might be obvious that from A stems D, but for someone seeing this first time and not having experience or not being good at this kind of thinking they do need to go from A to B then to B1 to C etc. Honestly, when it comes to explaining something to someone new, someone who had trouble learning the matter but in the end did figure it out is probably much better at teaching another than someone who grasped it intuitively.

[@Sir_Isaac_Newton_]

"Tell me, and I'll forget. Teach me, and I'll remember. Involve me, and I'll learn."

[@Blazo_Djurovic]

@HulloTheLoser That might be a bit non practical due to number of students and needs for certain level of respect requires a certain level of separation. Not a wall, teacher should still be there and hold 1v1 conversations, but he still needs to be a teacher.

[@AkashWShah]

@@Blazo_Djurovic you be friends with a lot of people, friends can still teach each other, and friends still respect each other. In fact, I think that's kind of what it's about: if the teacher treats you with respect, then you'll likely treat them with respect back and even learn better.

[@atst88]

For me, school has always been determining what the teacher wants. I've said objectively true facts and been physically yelled at for it. Every time one of my friends got something wrong when they were right, I told them school isn't about whats true, its about what people want to hear. I used to ask all of the questions, I was the kid who spouted out-of-nowhere facts somehow pertaining to the topic. That has only gotten me into trouble and hostile situations with other students or even teachers. I've had many a teacher ask why their students aren't learning anything. The answer, the teachers aren't teaching. They give us lists of facts to memorize and them forget after exams or tests. We don't have debates, because in these arguments there is a right and a wrong. That's why my favorite subject in middle school was math. There was a right and a wrong answer, but the further you go with math the less absolute the answers are until its just as dubious as all of the other subjects. School doesn't work how its supposed to and the students are the people getting blamed for it.

[@EntropyAndSingularity]

We have lost the ability to debate. An argument has two meanings; a fight and your point of view and evidence. An argument is not supposed to be a yelling match. It is a discussion of knowledge and POVs and application to things and the deciding what this piece of information means in accordance with this. There is not supposed to be a “right answer”, only justifying your answer so everyone can be on the same page.

[@stooberries]

You know something’s messed up when students are EXCITED to be sick and stay home.

[@ooaktree]

true

[@nyanya2757]

we weren't suppose to be? ._.

[@annikaukkonen]

I was so excited when my math teacher got hit by a car because it meant she couldn't check my test and give me a bad grade.

[@Vividlyforgotten]

@@annikaukkonen ngl that actually sounds relatable

[@kisakisakuru]

Fr

[@allanjmcpherson]

Having been a public school teacher, I feel like I should point out that many, *many* public school teachers agree with you on this. We would love to abolish grading. But without a system-wide change, it doesn't work. As long as there is work for which students are graded, work that isn't graded easily becomes a low priority. Additionally, administration often requires us to grade, and parents often expect some sort of number or letter that they think they understand (even if they don't). For example, at one of the schools where I worked, I wrote detailed comments for all my students. The administration told me they were excellent comments, but I had to shorten them because they didn't fit on the report card. They basically had to be a sentence long. What was taking up all that space? A bunch of percentage grades. PSA: I also want to point out that only water soluble vitamins are flushed out in urine. Fat soluble vitamins accumulate in fat, so it's quite possible to overdose on them. So, and I can not stress this enough, do NOT consume mega doses of any fat soluble vitamins! End PSA.

[@royobannon]

As a current public school teacher, I agree with all of this. I am expected to grade a certain amount of class assignments, homework assignments (ugh), and tests. If I don't have enough, I am penalized. Additionally, as much as I'd love to allow my students discover history on their own terms, I have state-mandated standardized tests at the end of the year that the kids cannot graduate without. All of these things make the prospect of no more grades difficult to say the least. That said, I absolutely love the suggestion Zoe Bee had of allowing students to determine their own rubrics, both as a class and on individual assignments. I will definitely incorporate that into my classes next year.

[@thejesusaurus6573]

Dope PSA

[@rickc2102]

Yeah, I'd made a comment about the vitamins issue, but just deleted it because you got it covered, cheers!

[@TerriMRoberts]

Same!! I moved out of secondary and into post-secondary many years ago, but when I was in the classroom I had the same experiences. I can count on one hand the teachers who agreed with grading like this, but government demands it and we can't help students if we get fired for not following the rules.

[@frickfrack1725]

Teacher alone weak. Union teachers strong. (Strengthen unionized efforts for all jobs tho)

[@Topyy]

It always baffled me that there's litteraly a field of science called "science of education" and that experts in those subjects are *never* consulted for anything regarding school or teacher's training

[@ryanrussell3241]

This is untrue, at least in the US. Every teacher is educated on these. It's just some don't follow it

[@Topyy]

I thought more of using science of education for the global organization of the school system, not on a per teacher basis

[@zephsmith3499]

Calling something a science doesn't make it one. In the physical world, abstract science is translated into practical effects through engineering, and engineering is highly informed by feedback from the real world. Plane designs that crash cannot be argued into irrelevance as social bias or something otherwise vague. If the "science of education" is reliably producing substantial positive outcomes when it IS being applied, then I believe that it will over time take over education. If it's output is abstract social theory which get applauded for conforming to the current academic fads, but fails to produce substantive benefits in the real world, then it's best if confined to the halls of academia. That step of translating abstract science into pragmatic real world methods and results, and being guided by those results in terms of which scientists to trust, is crucial. The fuzzier the asserted "science" is, the more critical it becomes that users of the science filter their acceptance through real world feedback. In the fuzzy sciences, think of the theorist as a competing vendor of ideas of what ought to work, and be a smart consumer rather than just blindly trusting one given school of thought within an asserted science - because they tell you they are being sciency about it.

[@MrCmon113]

They are constantly consulted, actually way too much. People, who never taught a class of kids, shouting down at the teachers from their ivory tower. They should be forced to teach a bunch of "socially disadvantaged" kids to solve simple equations until their lofty ideas come back to the ground of reality.

[@MrCmon113]

@@zephsmith3499 The first thing a teacher friend of mine learned in uni is that essentially all of educational science until very recently was complete rubbish. In my country it's way to common that "scientists" make grand proclamations from their ivory tower, while never really having taught kids.

[@FlyntofRWBY]

Grades did the exact opposite of motivating me growing up. I have really bad ADHD, so bad that even if I did do my homework, I would manage to forget to turn it in. My grades in elementary, middle, and high school almost never rose above a C. Two of my teachers, one in elementary and one in middle school, told me in front of the entire class that they gave up on me. Despite that, I would always do amazingly on tests. Never getting below a B on almost every test. Three of my teachers in high school, completely unprompted, told me I was such an intelligent student despite my below average grades. Heck, two of my professors in college, where I struggled to get above Cs, told me I was "very intelligent," I just needed to find the motivation. My high school also tried to take me off my IEP plan because I was "too smart." I probably would've been held back if I let them take me off it though. My bad grades have made me feel dumb throughout life. It definitely affected how I live my life, and has led to a lot of depression in the past that made me think, "why even bother trying?" Hopefully we can get rid of this garbage system, because it's holding back truly intelligent people.

[@smrreevesify]

Never let school get in the way of your education. It's amazing how fun learning at your own pace when you aren't forced to can be.

[@jenkathefridge3933]

I learned tiny bit about quantum mechanics on youtube but then I never touched it again somereason

[@78anurag]

Wait wy did KZbin delete my comment?

[@smrreevesify]

@@jenkathefridge3933 just have to find something the peeks your interest more

[@crackpointfivelive9418]

@@jenkathefridge3933 Don't _go looking_ for a "subject" to learn if you aren't into them already. Instead stumble down different rabbits holes, you're bound to learn something new. *But the real game is trying to connect those different rabbit holes together. * E.g. Like electronics and gaming? Try to build a controller. VFX and biology? Try character modeling/animating.

[@jenkathefridge3933]

@@crackpointfivelive9418 i'm going to do game design in college for a year since it's free and I will probably go for a internship to do game design. Although I could learn how to build a pc when prices decrease

[@StoneSaysHello]

I hate the idea of 'bad jobs' I worked as a dishwasher for a long time, and I LOVED that job. It was dirty, and gross pretty often, but it was also fun. I never had a boss tell me what to do beyond "can you please clean this today if it's slow?" My coworkers were always fun, we would talk when it wasn't busy, tell stories, have fun. I could just day dream all day. Idk I just really loved dishwashing. If it payed more I would never stop. But, because it's veiwed as easy, and dirty, it doesn't pay well. :(

[@christiansfd]

@Coda how about pay both? There is absolutely no need to demean one set of jobs in order to prop up another; they are all valuable.

[@furfixer]

I wish I could be a courier If only the payment was better

[@wendylott6920]

I feel ya. It would be nice to be paid an actual proper living salary no matter what your age, job, or hours. Work is work and you should be actually paid for it.

[@78anurag]

I said I wanted to be a postman when I was in 2nd Grade lol

[@ErbBetaPatched]

It doesn’t pay well because it’s not a job that is not that valuable. Just because it is labor it doesnt mean its worth anything.

[@roguefox4308]

I HATED how in school, both HS and College, I wanted to take risks when doing projects. I wanted to push the bounds of what we were doing, to try something interesting and different every time. I remember hating myself because I always did this and it often was the cause of a lower grade. Instead of acting like a printer for the exact thing the prof or teacher wanted, I made it my own, and often (mostly in HS) was punished for it.

[@KweenofRats]

Literally the same things have happened to me in late middle school/all of high school. It is genuinely so frustrating, saddening, and maddening. I love writing but I was punished for writing "more than I was supposed to" 😒 And don't even get me started on this rhetoric in art classes...

[@theboombody]

Yeah, do that stuff on your own time. That's what I do. In the work world, just do what they say as long as it's ethical and take your paycheck home. At home you can be as creative as you want. You can even start your own business and run it the way you want to. But I don't plan to do that because it's too risky for me.

[@YouKnowImOnMyPeriodYah]

My English teacher this year isn’t even hiding it. He made us use his sources and the paragraphs we did in class for our second essay. The first essay we were allowed creativity and even to pick our own prompt. I swear I did 10x better on the first essay because I was able to pour out my thoughts on something i was passionate about (and got almost a perfect score). But of course he decided to take it away. We just can’t have nice things

[@codythecat01]

@roguefox4308 I am doing this exact same thing right now

[@eastpontiff]

exactly

[@PartiallyLime]

Now imagine all of this but for someone who is neurodivergent. I have Autism and ADHD. With Autism, everything you need to learn is incredibly overwhelming, not to mention the loud environments, the cramped rooms, the smells of odours, the cafeteria food texture, the social anxiety you feel and how lonely it is to not have any friends. Though the majority of these problems can be solved with a quiet room for just you, and people like you. However, ADHD is an absolute beast... Here's Jonathan. He's 14 years old and he has ADHD. His current hyperfixation is The Legend of Zelda. Jonathan has to write about the civil war, but his brain is so incredibly messy, and he has no motivation to learn about something he has zero interest in. Because he has ADHD, rewards do not make him more motivated to work, that is not how it works. When would I ever need to use this infHow long is the master sword actually?o. It's... It's- uh..How many Links have there been so far? Wind waker...Hero of Time...hm... oh right Link, the hero that fights wars, that reminds me of my assignment... uhh.. I was gonna write about iDoes Link and Zelda like each other? Which generation of the-t they.. Uhm, oh sorry what was I saying? I should write about the civil war right... but it's so boring, I really really really really really reallu realluy realelrly realylyl realylymlm realvc reALlY reallLY REAALYLlyg don't want to search about it... it's so much work... I just.I'm gonna open youtube, I can't... I just can't...I can't do this...Ooh a tears of the kingdom playlist!!

[@Clovergem_in_the_snow]

Here’s Clover: Oooh okay interesting bio wo- lights are too bright- WHY IS YOUR VOICE YELLOW? SHUSH- math? Math? Okay, math- oh yayyyy Minecraft son- nope. Too loud. Now more work- but fun? Nope. Running out of idea- YES! now i wait- …wait, what was it? ADHD and SPD is an annoying combo in school 😅

[@EntropyAndSingularity]

I don’t need your petty “good girl points” or “free ice cream” or “a good grade” to care about the assignment. It is not supposed to be work that you have to bait me into doing. It is a learning experience. Make it have purpose on its own and I will do it. If you need an external reward for something, I’m not doing it. You’re just trying to justify your bullshit with other bullshit.

[@JosueLopez-kv8jp]

Through the years the concept of good grades for me changed a lot It went from "Good grades = better future me" to "Good grades = not disappointed parents" And I think this also happened to a lot of you too

[@chloskyskies4399]

For me it went to “Good grades = my existence isn’t a _total_ waste”

[@oculustest2433]

its good grades = good job! for me. guess im lucky

[@finalroxas4731]

that's me

[@ShinyTillDawn]

_Words marked with an asterisk are words I probably spelled wrong._ Good job = Balance of a STEM/finance degree from a prestigious* college and enough time working in internships/trash retail jobs + Number of relevant people you know + Luck + Job availability + Quality of the manager Good degree = Perfect grades + Perfect study habits + Minimal breaks (to be with friends, etc.) + Professors who know how to teach (and aren't in it for the reward) + No bias from the higherups + Money you already have + Above average living conditions

[@tristantheoofer2]

it took 1 vid for me to change meh views to that. it used to be good grades = epik good future and high paying job type shit and now its good grades = siblings stop saying ur grades fucking suck lul

[@piratenerdz1602]

I recently graduated from a college that didn't use a grading system, and instead centered around evaluations. Basically you would do the assignments your teacher would give and instead of grading them soon after, you simply moved on to the next assignment without going over it. Then at the end of the quarter, you and your teacher would convene about how the quarter went, your learned abilities, your struggles, and overall growth. It really helped emphasize each students personal development over the end score. I truly wish more schools would adopt this system

[@Zkankhunt]

If you don't mind me asking, what college is that? I would like to go to one similar. I stress about my grades too much. I would even move states or countries to go. Lol

[@jonak5w535]

Bruh I need names RIGHT NOW

[@ProfessionalBugLover]

do they have immunology classes

[@AYSplayer]

Cool story, so where are your sources?

[@samranda]

@@Zkankhunt no idea if this is the college they're referring to, but reed college does something similar

[@chickennuggetpaw]

44:36 No joke, a teacher literally told my class once that the classroom was “NOT a democracy. This is an autocracy. I’m in charge.” (An autocracy is a form of government where there is one head ruler and no one else has a say in how things are run.) *Yeah... it made me pretty irritated.*

[@theboombody]

Well, if it's a high school class you're talking about where the kids haven't reached full maturity yet (and trust me, most of them haven't at that age) then a democracy would vote to just play on smart phones all day and not learn a darn thing. Most kids don't really wake up until they enter the workforce for a living, and even then a lot of them still can't grasp the concept of self discipline.

[@chickennuggetpaw]

@@theboombody I’m not saying it’s should be a democracy. Why even compare it to a government? But she literally said in the video that students should have a say in their education.

[@cakeisyummy5755]

That Teacher would've been a GREAT Dictator!

[@chickennuggetpaw]

@@cakeisyummy5755 honestly he would have. He was really loud, and according to my friend, looked down a couple girls’ shirts, so he’s also creepy-

[@dontpreorder2783]

@@theboombody there’s this thing called compromise, you state what you want and work with others to establish a scenario where all parties benefit. This assumption that kids won’t work with you and you have to make them submit does nothing for anyone as your authority will be undermined and the kids won’t be able to learn as effectively.

[@Thats_Griffin]

Last year we had to write about our favorite season of the year. Fall is my favorite season, so I got really into this paper. Over the course of a day, I wrote the perfect paper. Spending the most time on it as possible, going through many iterations. It captured everything I loved about fall, and I was so proud of it. When I actually care about something I am writing about, my true style of writing shows though and it becomes very descriptive and elaborate. I can admit the way I write is odd. In a way, it reminds me of how lovecraft described everything. My admiration for his work has rubbed off on me. Maybe it just wasn't what the teacher was looking for, maybe they were looking for an essay. It would have been a typical essay I would have written nonchalantly because it wasn't interesting or didn't align with my writing style. Whatever it was, my perfect showing of my feelings on fall, was marked with a C. I have not written in my style since, and for some screwed up reason, my grades are better. Here's what I wrote, because this is still one of the best things I have written. "The waft assists the cool breath of Autumn, distributing its mellow circumstances unbridled far and wide across the lushness of crimson woodland. Following the chant of rustling, leaves plucked from the tree's foliage. While the wind drifts, it seems they become animate, dancing their own particular steps. No two leaves perform the same motion. They each display individuality in an entirely different manner, and with time they stagger down until they join the hoard throughout the underbrush. The breeze propels the fragrant Maple deriving from the secretion of trees. A trace of wood smoke from chimney tops; then the outlying growl of thunder as though emanating from depths of the loch. Haze rests on the gloss of the rippling water; reflecting a wash from the orange radiance of a setting sun. This is what I mean by beauty. A long-tailed bird has presented itself to leisure upon a bough, serenading its rendition of Autumn. The song is a symphony. The symphony is a composition. With Fall's symphony surrounding me, I can view its elegance. There is not at all one aspect that I do not adore. My sentiments carried onwards along the leaves. Autumn is the season of beauty, I declare, but only complete after it ends. Completion must be achieved only when the last leaf dances away. The symphony will cease, leaving behind the memory of Autumn's music. But who knows if the memory of this beauty may not linger even beyond?"

[@ZechsMerquise73]

I notice when I get a reaally, really good feeling about a piece of my writing its usually more manic energy puffing me up. especially when I feel the piece is above criticism. You paint a very fitting and unique fall image. However, I see you've got multiple descriptors that mean the same thing in the same sentence. Some adjectives here are very ambiguous, like "lushness". The ending repeats itself multiple times, is very introspective, and use of a question can seem trite. I can see why someone would score it low, even if it gets a 10/10 in the feeling category, especially if the submission ignored assignment instructions and learning objectives. Did the teacher not leave any commentary? Sometimes its better not to pick as work a subject that is close to you. Or just do what you want and forget grades. It'll maybe average out high if you have passion and keep improving. Give them hell and they'll see you; a few might even learn to understand you.

[@funnychannel5068]

What the hell how could your teacher mark this C. It's a piece of art.

[@breadthegreat461]

Damn brother you’re the new William Shakespeare

[@SimsyHazel]

The words are very cuteee (I mean that in a good way)

[@Fromtheforgottengardens]

I am an Indian. The way grades hold such a strong grip on students, that when people fail to get expected grades or not live up to expectations of parents, some go into depression and at worst students commit sucide.

[@Densoro]

I almost went that way, myself. I was so focused on surviving my boyfriend's wrath that I let my grades slip and nearly threw my life away. Love from America. I hope something changes for all of us.

[@Fromtheforgottengardens]

@@Densoro I was so bad at studies, that my parents gave up on me and said just get grades enough to get in any college, but by the end of high school I got some good teachers that genuinely helped me and a lot of other students in grasping lot of important concepts in maths , science etc. that I ended up getting good grades. And parents were very surprised, how did this dumb kid get good grades. Now it seems bragging, but there is a point I know a colleague/neighbor who was very good in studies and used to get good grades and even got great grades at end of high school, but then from college his grades start slipping cause he got tired from the expectation and had breakdown. He was getting grades, for his parents and society's expectations, that he wasn't asking him what he wanted. The point I am trying to make is don't fall into rabbit hole of expectations of others, I still think there are like countless like me, who performed well when there was no burden of expectations on them. But still I suffer from emotional neglect, that due to lack friends and relationships in my life, I am a people pleaser, in hopes of making friends. That I have lost myself and still have no close friends or a girlfriend. And now I am desperately trying to be myself again. We are all strong in some ways and broken in another ways ☺️.

[@theblaze5530]

@@Fromtheforgottengardens the good grades person sounds like it could be me. People put us through lot of unwanted pressure. Good to see this video and realize grades aren't everything. Average is fine. Worse thing is when parents put us through the highest of expectations. We also have this caste system which is kinda irrelevant now but I still don't understand why they want to know my caste when signing up for exams

[@theblaze5530]

@@Densoro thanks. Maybe there's still hope, maybe we can make the world a better place for the next generation by trying to make a change ourselves. Maybe they'll hear us if we shout loud enough. Haha

[@allroundgamingrounder4478]

I am in 12th standard, and this is probably the most relatable comment here. I am also from India.

[@freezeboy13]

As a student, I'm so happy to hear some one say "If students don't have a reason to give a shit about learning, they won't give a shit about learning." While going through school for the past few years I've had teacher that clearly don't care about teaching us, so I only did what was necessary and never cared about the class. I've also had some of the best teachers I've had who genuinely cared about teaching us so much that I was happy to walk into their class every day. The world has changed, people need to change the way they teach too.

[@technicallly3345]

i hate school its so bad my sister said i need to graduate high school to get driver permit but my father didnt go to school and he has it, they say at first "you go to school to learn" but when you're growing they'll say shit like "you go to school to get good grades" it's not just the teachers but also their parents. just how much pressure they put in someone to give up on their dreams; mine was to become a KZbinr and i gave up, now it's to become a game developer but I'm starting to give up too. i hate my family for not supporting me on my decisions

[@joelrobinson5457]

I fear the state of all will get far worse before it gets better

[@Anonymous-hx3pu]

@@technicallly3345 I go to school because I am legally required to.

[@basilplushie2534]

@@technicallly3345 To live a life of power, you must have faith that what you believe is right even if other tell you're wrong The first thing you must do to live a life of power is to find a courage. You must be ready to reach beyond the boundaries of time itself And to do that all you need is to take the first step

[@l1n325]

@@basilplushie2534 Sonic CD?

[@pigglepix]

A while back I had a very strange and vivid dream where I walked into High School for the first time, but I wasn't given a schedule, and never picked which electives I wanted to go to. I asked a staff person what I should do, and he told me to find a classroom that I was interested in and enter it. When I walked into the art room, there was no teacher, but instead, a pile of papers and art supplies. I asked an older looking student what I should do, and she said, "Whatever you want" So I grabbed a piece of paper, and then I woke up.

[@SquirrellyFries]

That's not a school, that's a daycare center.

[@terrie3957]

@@SquirrellyFries they're all daycare centers if you think about it - so what? A large portion of the real purpose of school is a place to put kids under inadequate adult supervision for half the day because you can't trust them alone at home - but with other children in a giant building where they could get bullied or beaten by each other, and stores probably more household cleaners, and is built just as unsafe as your house - is somehow safer than a familiar environment they're unlikely to try to leave where all their toys are and they already been reminded of all the specific dangers to not touch or eat.

[@AslgamingOffical]

@@terrie3957 what would I give to live in that dream

[@cheese_licker5000]

@@terrie3957 True, but what about the people who are in an abusive household? But for the most part, I agree with you. It isn't really safer than their house (recent incidents have kind of shown that), and is kind of just an excuse to assert control onto them.

[@Pyro03333]

Please tell me that when you woke up, you started painting.

[@Boognish64]

I was 17, getting ready to go to a state college when a college rep. told me they didn’t even open HS transcripts. The bubble popped; my parents and teachers had been lying to my face for 17 years straight. Grades were less than meaningless, they were in fact insidious. Designed to measure sucking-up points and keep teachers feel validated. I went never did another piece of homework Junior year through Senior year, my folks would start screaming about grades and I would rip the assignments to pieces in front of their eyes. Teachers learned to stop talking to me because I would be completely honest in my apathy towards their powerlessness. I went from near 4.0 to like a 1.8 GPA. I graduated on time with the rest of the top students (could have finished a semester early but decided to take AP exams) and no one has ever seen my transcipts even through my BA.

[@richardscathouse]

Everyone lies. It didn't take 17 years for me to learn that 😂

[@flouglemireindustries4335]

Average internet comment. I find the comment much more beneficial and interesting than how ignorant you are to put it.@@richardscathouse

[@EntropyAndSingularity]

Wait… just curious… how true is this for most colleges? Like the not looking at your HS grades? In America btw.

[@Viper4ever05]

Schools were designed to produce factory workers educated enough to function in factories. The grading system was a mechanism to determine which one of their "products" was adequate enough for the workforce. It was never set up for the sake of learning and exploration. School systems definitely have to change for this new economy, we're not working in factories anymore.

[@sissa8216]

Nobody’s up for the challenge unfortunately

[@vincemcmahonreadskoran3120]

@@sissa8216 Admins and teachers are products of the system and admins tend to focus on numbers over people. Most have more advanced degrees which just further kills their creativity because they become Masters at writing the kinds of papers their Masters programs demanded of them. I’ve been chewed up and spit out of the system on both ends (teacher and student, simultaneously in a masters program) and I say it all needs to collapse and the wealth of knowledge available on the Internet could be the catalyst for change we need. But we have to starve the beast by calling the system on its shit and not pushing college on everyone like it’s anything other than a racket run by people who have spent the extra time to become the machine.

[@J-manli]

@@sissa8216 It's not that nobody is up for the challenge, it's that those in power profit too much from the current system. They themselves function off of external 'objective' rewards, so unless we can somehow convince them that they will get more 'rewards' they won't do a damn thing.

[@Emily-bp7ol]

I agree something needs to change if we want students to learn and explore. Currently the system seems to be setup in way that makes the population cohesive. Same thinking, same actions, same behaviors. Unfortunately, I disagree that we aren’t working in factories anymore. We still have factories and still need people to work on products. If you think we move to robotics to do this, well, we still need people to build all those robots and to mine the materials for the robots. No escape from factory like work. Even if we move to a society of less stuff, we need people to produce food, also in factories. If you want cheap food, that’s what you get. The flip side would be people who work outside with food and enjoy their work, but you’ll have to be willing to pay them more. So perhaps some things need to change outside of schools to give reasons for the education system to change.

[@creestee08]

what do you mean we're not working in factories anymore? what do you mean? is this double meaning? cuz i am working in a factory.

[@SeigiVA]

Damn, I didn't know my name was Maria.

[@windjager2177]

Unsolved mystery has been solved. Seigi VA's name is Maria

[@likethecolorgreen]

I was confused but I get your joke.

[@arnoldchristine2020]

my daughter must be Maria too although not on her birth certificate....me too but more with my superiors...

[@savvivixen8490]

🤣🤣🤣

[@xpirate16]

You remind me of a West Side Story

[@DandeDingus]

I think the "being afraid to fail" stuff, even tho failure is good, conditioned me into being an unhealthy perfectionist while i draw. Cant fail on anything that i put a lot of hours into, i keep telling myself

[@J-manli]

The crux of this issue lies with the over-reliance on Image and reputation. Employers/ Recruiters LOVE flawless records, and so flawlessness has become the 'base standard' with anything less being seen as 'undeserving.'

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Felt this. I took AP 2D art this year and my teacher kept encouraging us to have process pieces and character studies and stuff to show the way we work and I just couldn't. I felt like, if I was going to spend time on a drawing, it'd have to come out in a way I deemed perfect and a majority of my portfolio ended up being complete pieces which isn't necessarily bad but it isn't great. I think it's also why I push aside so many animation projects. The few I have done, I didn't have as much practice behind, and so they didn't turn out how I imagined them. Even though I know I'll only get better if I practice and mess up a little bit, I fear not getting it right the first time.

[@crowdemon_archives]

Well, fuck, that's me. D:

[@memphiscallista5098]

oop-, that's me- edit: I only got on the honor-roll one time in 2nd grade, and to this day I feel like that was nothing even though the teachers used to gave gold stars everytime I got quiet or tell someone to be quiet. I feel that all was in vane. AND tomorrow's my exam

[@anisomniac5931]

This is me. Kinda gave up on perfection when it came to school though (I only get an A-B honor-roll, not straight As), since it was actually killing me. Had three suicide attempts from 6th grade all the way up until now (just graduated 11th grade). My best friend I met in my freshman year of high school had it a lot worse, probably because she pushes herself way harder than me. She once let me look at her report card, and it was straight As the whole way through. Sure I congratulated her, I felt proud of her, but I also felt worried, because I knew it was killing her. She was constantly worried and stressed, and I once saw her have a terrible mental breakdown while she was on stage giving a speech in English class. No one understood and everyone made fun of her, except for me. I deeply understood her pain, because, even though I never had a mental breakdown from giving a speech, I was always really close to, because of all those threatening, watchful eyes, and the fact that I was constantly evaluated for my performance. Luckily she survived high school (she just graduated the 12th grade), but now she's gotta go through college. I don't want her to take her own life, she's unique, smart, creative, honest, and genuine, the world needs more people like her! In fact, no one should take their own life (unless they're a murderer or something). With drawing (art and animation), even though it's only a hobby, even though I'm not required to be at peak-performance, I still do, because I want to achieve perfection. I enjoy it sometimes, but most of the time I feel like I have a gun to my head by my inner demons and the fact that I actually want to be a professional animator in the future, and you rarely see any errors in TV-quality animation, don't ya? My same best friend had the same problem with her art. She never wanted to work in the professional art field (in fact she told me that she wanted to work at a graveyard), yet she won't allow herself to make any mistakes with her artwork. It was stunning, beautiful, and eye-catching, yet when she was drawing it she looked more... robotic. She didn't seem to enjoy it, like it was just another thing she was expected to do perfectly. I do not think that I'll become a professional animator in the future, but I want to, because, for me, art and especially animation is a gleeful escape from reality since the very beginning, so I feel like helping others feel good like that would be an amazing purpose in life. If it weren't for having an escape like that, I may not be here. I know it took me a while to get to this point, but you don't have to be a perfectionist with your art. Just do it and try to enjoy doing it. Plus I don't think you can really fail with your art, because it's all subjective, unless you're expected to perform a certain way, in which case failure is determined by the critic. Enjoy your hobbies, because we all already have it hard enough in life. 🙂

[@tehangrybird345]

I remember recently I failed my 10th grade shop class midterm. However I was shocked that my grade didn’t really go down, and my teacher even seemed to blame himself. I realized then that I actually showed interest in that class and wanted to grow my abilities. My teacher noticed this and called me a good student because of what I wanted to learn, not from what I didn’t learn. We need that kind of mindset in every class.

[@brianarbenz7206]

In many states, public schools are threatened with funding cuts if students' test scores don't reach a certain average level. The teachers aren't to blame for this; it was forced on them by politicians receiving campaign money from corporations who want to replace public schools. And this method forces teachers to "teach to the test," meaning they have to structure their classes to achieve numerical results. This worsens the longstanding U.S. problem of undervaluing learning and nuanced critical thinking.

[@J-manli]

It's all a long term scheme. "We don't want critical thinkers because they will more likely want to negotiate more benefits or more likely to question the 'Wonders of Capitalis' " Funny how the US LOVES to say they're free thinkers when a whole generation was raised by Cold War propaganda because US businesses didn't like the idea that communist countries at the time didn't want to do business with them.

[@crowdemon_archives]

@@J-manli It's really sad that how from the beginning where your bunch strived to be "great" and now it turned into Ancient Rome all over again. I guess history really do rhyme a lot.

[@yin4296]

I go to the top school in my state, and I was tested to death before going to this high school. I was told by an assistant principal that our district gets so much funding because of us, and I felt very used. Now I’m at this top school and I can barely get by, and I get harassed constantly for “not trying hard enough” meaning I’m not getting them anything anymore

[@brianarbenz7206]

@@yin4296 Wow, that is a very powerful and illustrative account of exactly what is wrong. Students are used, for grades, for the exorbitant tuition, then as debt slaves. I'm very sorry for what you endured.

[@musclestruts5032]

American public education has been under a subtle but unrelenting assault for the past 40 years at least. Whether it's because corporations salivate at the profit value in privatizing education, or because they don't want the lower classes being able to think, or just both, they ultimately want a system that means only the wealthy can afford a real education.

[@EvanC881]

As a teacher, I agree with everything you've said. BUT the only thing I'm sad about is the fact that this is addressed in many ways to teachers. Honestly, I think a new generation of teachers (like me) are aware of many of these issues, but we aren't given the freedom to implement any of the solutions. It can be a very frustrating thing when you KNOW how to be a better teacher but the reality is that you have no ability to do that. I highly recommend Confessions of a (Bad) Teacher. Just picked it up this week and it was a really eye-opening read about just how frustrating it can be to teach under an administration that does not support you or the kids in your class. Education needs a pretty big systematic overhaul imo.

[@antoniapineiro7124]

I was thinking exactly this. I am not a teacher but I'm friends with several and I can confidently say that they, at least, are very invested in igniting their students' curiosity and love of learning. The problem is all the constraints placed on them by the administration, school board, parent groups, and state and national standards -- and now censorship on top of all that.

[@aur9035]

Hello! Do you think i, as a student, could share this with my teachers? I've had pretty memorable times at this school, some frustrating and traumatizing teachers, some pretty admirable and sensible teachers. And as im gonna graduate soon, i want my brother, and the future students to be able to get this kind of comforting learning. But how would you recommend for me to pass the message to them?

[@MrRobotrax]

All of the young teachers I've had have been the absolute best. I remember hating English until the last year of high school, when I had a teacher who would grade essays highly no matter what. This gave me a safety net that I could use to experiment with writing essays about things I actually cared about, and opinions I actually held. Looking back, the essays I wrote that year were magnitudes better than any previous year.

[@sarahluchies1076]

I had a couple of teachers who did their best to implement some of these, and they were my two favorite classes. Creative Writing was essentially turn in creative work and you get an A, the rest of the time is yours for crestivity. The other was English Literature, where we had class-long discussions on historical works that had little to do with grades, more with learning and discovery as a class. I only got a C+, but it remains a favorite topic and inspired a love of historical poetry which I am exploring on Twitch streams.

[@kongrufus1]

@@aur9035 You absolutely should share this video with your teachers. Many of them may already know the things Zoe shares here, but some might not know. However, as the OP in this thread mentions, things are a bit more complicated than that. In many cases, even if a teacher knows these things they can not step outside of the curriculum and the policy of grading, motivating students etc. due to the way schools are run and how politicians construct the laws regarding schools. I am a teacher (and from a country with quite progressive views on schools and teaching, even) and we were taught many of the things Zoe adresses in the video during our education. But even here we are somewhat locked in the way we grade, motivate, teach etc. due to laws, curriculum and local school policies. While the laws in my country dictates a less detailed curriculum than in many other countries, we are still mandated to teach students how to e.g. analyse, interpret, discuss etc. within a set of defined genres in language classes. The thing is that both schools and politicians believe they need some way of measuring the results from the schools, and a more or less standardised curriculum and grading is what they think is the best way of measuring these things.

[@rickvanleeuwen9589]

School is a barrier to your future. That is exactly my experience. I hate it. Humans ARE naturally curious AND creative. This education system is an insult to that. An insult to all curiosity and creativity. I cannot wait until people that genuinely understand how to observe and guide humans and their emotions like designers get their chance to make a change

[@harrybudgeiv349]

How does school stop creativity?

[@MrJoeBlaze]

School's design is evil. It's been time for a change for longer than we've all been alive! But no one's had the power to make it happen yet and has done enough about it. Because the wrong people are in power. And we haven't done anything about it. And if we have, We haven't pushed hard enough for true freedom. People would rather be slaves and continue to deal with barriers than try to dismantle the barriers. We need the tools to change the world the right way. And they're in the hands of the wrong people. Our entire society IS built on a lie/mistake. Life is NOT about working in a factory. It's about having fun. It's about doing the "actual" right thing. It's about exploring yourself. Exploring what makes your life worth living. It's not about being hounded by society. Nothing will ever get rid of me. Or the true human spirit.

[@greenlitlleman]

Not all humans are naturally curious and creative. Schools exist so that even the laziest of children get the basic knowledge of the world. If we made going to school a choice, then many people would stay on the level of education of a 7-year-old for most of their lives. It's fairly obvious from how most people stop learning as soon as they finish their semi-forced education. Most people are lazy fucks that would spend ALL of their time watching movies, playing games, and having fun with friends if they were given a choice. Because learning DOES require effort.

[@rickvanleeuwen9589]

@@greenlitlleman Learning requires effort and should definitely be mandatory. Education is the most important thing humanity has. The thing is that it's just horribly designed. It relies entirely on extrinsic motivation when it should be cashing in on intrinsic motivation. A common misconception is that intrinsic motivation can't be created but that's simply wrong. No wonder people are uninterested when they don't even try. If a game is poorly designed you don't want to play it. Same goes for anything including the education system

[@greenlitlleman]

@@rickvanleeuwen9589 The thing with games - they are super easy. Anything worthwhile is not. Learning a language or writing a book CAN and IS fun and interesting, to an extent. But they also require mental effort. And you can get as much fun and intrinsic motivation from video games or Netflix while consuming way less energy. You missing the fact that our brain wants to pursue pleasure in the most efficient way. Pursuit and motivation aren't just about the enjoyment of the process but also about the effort required for this activity. The less is effort, the easier it's to get hooked. And depending on your default intelligence this effort can be significantly higher. BTW, there are studies that show that for most tasks that don't require creativity (i.e. pretty much all jobs) extrinsic motivation works just way better. Intrinsic motivation is required for creative jobs, but only a minority of people are doing them anyway. Most people need the stick and the carrot to have their jobs done. This is what the education system exists for. To make more reliable workers instead of more writers or artists. Intrinsic motivation isn't going to help you with your McDonald's job.

[@ur_local_nintendo_ds]

As someone with possible ADHD, I've been working on school a lot and doing good, but everyone says I've gotten much quieter. TBH I can relate to maria. I used to be happy and talkitive and all that but now, no. Because in my school, you cant talk during lunch, in between classes, even at hometime or in the bus. Interaction is a big no. And also, homework and tests. We have tests every other day, and complete things like algebra and ratios within one or two days. Our teachers just write problems on the board and if we do badly in tests, we're idiots who know nothing. Parents dont do much either, You're on your own here. Nobody dares ask a question. Half term is over and people must have asked like 3 questions in all subjects (7 subjects) combined until now. Another thing, This is how it is in the 6th grade.

[@NootalieWalf]

As a former ‘problem child’ who’s gone completely numb to the extrinsic punishment/reward system, this was very refreshing to see.

[@Drekromancer]

Well said, queen. 👑

[@Bee-kv5tx]

As a former "gifted" kid, I wonder how many things I've given up because I got mad that I couldn't do it right away, cause school taught me to believe that's how I am supposed to do it

[@kiralonely]

Same...

[@snappy-star-disco]

Same

[@YourPalQS]

Ayy the pain of most "gifted" students. Since mainly you aren't rly trying but you are interested so you learn easier and end up getting rewards, but once you hit a wall and lose those rewards you lose interest in everything connected to that certain activity and stop doing it. Worst is that to get that interest back takes a long time or never happens to begin with.

[@Seth9809]

@@YourPalQS Just sounds like you're lazy.

[@bother.g]

@@Seth9809 after watching a big portion of the video, i wouldn't say its "laziness". To me it's just "if this counts for my future and my way of surviving (money), I'll do it. If not, its useless" which granted is a bad way to look at it but that's what rewarding mostly does and it's just about anything but lazy lol (not rewarding, the way of thinking)

[@aliceplays5092]

It feels appropriate for me to put this here: "It is, in fact, nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in need of freedom; without this it goes to wreck and ruin without fail. It is a very grave mistake to think that the enjoyment of seeing and searching can be promoted by means of coercion and a sense of duty." -Albert Einstein, "Autobiographical Notes" (1949)

[@cogspace]

The fact that anyone at all makes it through high school with an intact sense of curiosity and wonder is a testament to the profound resilience of the human spirit: nothing less.

[@ur.left.buttcheek]

@@clickbait6646 Things might have changed between then and now but the ideas have stayed the same

[@SnooWords97]

@@clickbait6646 Which still holds up to this day

[@vladlu6362]

@@clickbait6646 yes. The education system worldwide hasn't changed one bit.

[@yoru4055]

@@clickbait6646 And Albert Einstein’s point still stands, even after all these years.

[@caeneusii]

I’m 15 right now, and wow this hits so close to home. I used to be such a curious kid, and I’ve watched my work steadily get worse as I start pulling crap out of my ass, instead of putting everything into projects I used to care about.

[@skullmastergamer]

I’m 13, and I think the same thing might be happening to me.

[@chaoticcow4357]

im 14, and I completely relate. Hell, in kindergarten i was excited to do work, to the point I demanded more to do (this pissed my teacher off and my mom got called like twice). Now i'm here, 14 and can barely make myself do anything. The only class I'm doing great in is Digital Design. Not only does it apply to me because I want to persue art as a career, but I'm given freedom. Recently we made a cereal box design, we could do anything we wanted to, we just had to use what we learned. I made a cereal brand called King Parahna-nas. It was dumb and played on tropes of man eating pahranas so i pretended it was made out of people. I'm still so happy about that project. I can't say the same thing about my other classes. I started Biology Honors this year and I was shocked when it was nothing that I needed in that class. I'm not doing the best in it now, despite my passion for biology.

[@pancake.squirrel]

Yeah. There’s a final AP presentation I’m gearing up for in Seminar, but idk if I should take the risk of carefully considering the research question that interests me because it’s atypical for the class.

[@FinleyForRealz]

Also 15 here! Yeah idk where my passion went. I used to put real effort into projects, but now I have so much stuff to do, the goal quickly became do everything as fast as possible.

[@soup-de2jf]

yeah i dont want to learn anymore i just want to pass