Zoning Boilers with Nest Thermostats: Low Power & WIFI Problems

[@shawnfitzpatrick568]

Mike, This is great. I had been pulling my hair out talking to Nest and Navien about how to get this to work. I only have two wires. I had looked at both the RIB and the Power Adapter but hadn't thought of putting them both together to solve the problem. Pure genius brother. I too lose sleep over these things.

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Glad it helped!

[@WisdomTree2024]

Very much informative and relevant, TYSM for sharing Perfections, doing it right and sleep good :)

[@Hammyhamham1]

Hello Mike, I have a boiler system with 2 honeywell zone valves, both are connected to same RIB relay, and installed 2 google nest thermostats. Do I need a RIB relay for each zone valve/thermostat?

[@RAV21-32]

So if you need a common wire, I’ll need all this equipment to operate the t-stat and boiler?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

You will need a power connector for each stat, but you don't have to buy as many RIB relays. You can get a simple multi-channel relay board instead for about $30-40.

[@codamedia]

I have 4 zones with a Taco valve on each. For this setup would I need a Rib Relay for each zone and a Nest Power Connector for each zone? Im looking at my current install for my boiler and valves and there is already two transformers hooked up with red and whites wires coming off of them going to a main junction box, where then I see red, white and green wires coming out to attach to the Taco Vales. Can I tap into these existing transformers for power?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Those are likely 40va transformers and each one can handle up to 3 taco zone valves. They may have wired 3 zone valves to one xfmr and one to the other, or they may have evened them out with two zone valves each. Most guys would even them out. If you have 2 zones on each transformer, then you can probably power 2 Nests off of each transformer without using the relays. If you have 3 zones on one transformer and only 1 on the other, you'll have to either move all of the wiring from one zone valve from the one transformer with 3 zones on it and move it to the other xfmr to even them out, or, you'll have to power all of your Nests off of the transformer with one zone valve on it and use relays for the 3 zones on the other transformer. I would just even them out and do without the relays. But you will need a power connector for each zone either way. You just have to make sure you don't cross any circuits from one transformer to the other. So 2 Nest stats and zone valves must come off of the same transformer and the other 2 Nests and zone valves must come off of the other transformer. If youre going 2 and 2, I have a video on my channel on how to hook up the power connector to a taco zone calve without the relay involved. Use that video as a guide.

[@justinklrjms]

The Nest Power Connector Pro Install Manual pages 10&11 show how to use the nest power connector with an external power source and turn the power connector essentially into a relay

[@richmarksthespot]

What if I am using a Taco Sr503? The transfor is built into that right? I used the google power connectors for each zone and running 2 c-wires to to Comm screw. Now I'm getting buzzing at both google learning thermostats. Wondering if I add the rib relay if that will fix the humming or do I need another transformer also...Thanks

[@metx9915]

Great video , can you show how to set up 2 circular zone it’s already piped 2 supply to 2 with 2 pumps on returns ,need another stat and the right relay

[@renatedoeve4283]

Quick question for clarification, do you need a RIB relay for each thermostat? I have boiler system with Honeywell V8043F1036 zone valves. I'm trying to connect 2 of the 3 zones with a Google Nest thermostat. I have a power connector and RIB relay for each zone. Thanks.

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Yes one for each

[@glenvaldez3459]

Hey what’s up Mike quick question I have 2 Nest thermostats 3rd gen I have 2 zones in my home . Just recently I’ve been having issues with the upstairs thermostat with low power issues and making the thermostat disconnect from the WiFi. I only have 2 wires for my connection to the thermostat base. What is my best solution?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

A nest power connector should resolve the issue. Even though the 3rd gen doesn't need a common, it only charges during active cycles. Adding the power connector will help it charge up in between cycles to full charge. That should help stop the dropping wifi connection.

[@rickyrms21]

Hello, im curious if i have to go through all of this process for 2 taco zone valves? Also, do i need a separate nest power adapter per thermostat?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

You probably don't have to go this far with 2 zones, but you do need a separate power connector for each Tstat. I have a vid here on how to do it without the relay: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYjNeYh4i7yKps0

[@rickyrms21]

@JerseyMikeHVAC Thank you for your fast reply. I'll be watching and commenting on the other video with any follow-up questions.

[@CurtKeshian]

Mike, awesome video! I have one question though. What does having the relay give you? Could you do all the same things without the relays or would that be ill-advised? I have a three zone Taco setup with a single transformer, and I'm trying to figure out if I need to expand d with an additional xfrmr.

[@MarcFritzer]

Wondering if Mike might be able tot chime in here.

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

The purpose of the relay is to keep 2 different circuits from different transformers apart from one another to avoid phasing issues. Another alternative is to increase the size of the single transformer from say 40va to 75va. Then you wouldn't need the relays. But Taco zone valves are power hungry. Always better to spread out loads with several transformers whenever possible.

[@CurtKeshian]

@@JerseyMikeHVAC thanks Mike! I followed everything step by step this weekend (even had my brother-in-law to help me verify each step). We got it so the relay clicks on when the thermostat asked for power. However, the TACO valve didn't open. I have three TACO valves where all terminal 3's are connected to the red wire from the boiler control board. All terminal 2's are connected to the white wire from the boiler control board and all the common from the original transformer. I had the yellow wire from the relay connected to terminal 1 on the TACO I wanted to control. I believe I saw 26v on terminal 1 (as compared to common on the new transformer). Terminals 2 and 3 on the TACO were open. You know how in the beginning of your video you said you were the type of person who had to figure this BS out? I'm the same way! lol. And so far, I'm defeated. I also tried to use a different TACO just to see if that one valve was no good (which I highly doubted) and I got the same result where the valve didn't open. :( Anything come to mind? Thanks!

[@CurtKeshian]

I am wondering if I misinterpreted load and common on the original transformer that powers the TACOs. The transformer leads are not labeled (at least from what I can see). I wonder if I was wiring everything assuming the original transformer leads were reversed of what they really are. I may try the whole exercise again.

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Can you elaborate a little more on "all of the common to the original transformer"? Are there different commons for terminals 1 and 3? Or do they share? If they are different common points that is likely your issue right there. In most systems terminal 2 goes to the same common at the transformer for both 1 and 3 circuits. If the commons are separate you'll have to wire to account for that. If you can send me a schematics drawing of the wiring arrangement, I can probably see it better to figure it out. Mjrusso at protonmail dot com

[@JacekPuzio-w1y]

Mike just quick question, I have to wire nest thermostat with heating system with honywell zone valve on existing system, luckly there is 3 wire thermostat just trying to figure out where to connect the c wire .My guess is to just add second transformer and just use 1 leg out of that.can you help me with that

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Of the 2 yellow wires on the zone valve, one should tie into a wire going back to the W terminal on the thermostat (usually white wire but not always). The other yellow wire ties back into common on the transformer. You can try to tie the common wire from the stat into that second yellow wire that ties back to the transformer common already.

[@JacekPuzio-w1y]

Thank you I will try that

[@MrWestie005]

Mike, do you have, or is there available, a wiring diagram for this video? Watched thru it but like to have a wiring diagram to work off of as an electrician. Figured Id ask before making ine myself, at least if you do it i kniw its right. Its for a Taco zone controller. Let me know please and thanks.

[@RAV21-32]

Thankyou

[@renatedoeve4283]

What wires are connected to the TR, TH, and TR/TH terminals on a Honeywell V8043F1036 zone valve for this to work? Does TR have the red transformer wire, the TH the red transformer wire and the orange RIB wire, and the TH/TR the yellow RIB wire and the white transformer wire?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

The TH-TR terminal is not wired up to anything internally, so it serves no purpose other than a spot to act as a junction. TH and TR individually are the same as the 2 yellow wires on the zone valve in the video.

[@renatedoeve4283]

Thank you so very much!

[@albertogarrido1375]

Just confirming this is accurate as I think this was indirectly asked down below. I have a 5 zone (5 t-stats and 5 honey well zone valves) system. Do I need a Nest PC for each? If I do, then I don't see the need for the relay. I already connected up 1 Nest PC to the first zone with no relay (based on one of your other videos...thank you!) and it works perfectly without the relay. If 1 relay would save the need for multiple Nest PC then worth the $20 investment of a relay. All these Nest T-stats are expensive and then throw in having to have a Nest PC also starts adding up the cost.

[@Dannyd7429]

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[@Dannyd7429]

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[@Dannyd7429]

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[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

You do need a PC for each thermostat. The relay isn't necessary just for 1 or 2 thermostats, but eventually you start to exceed the VA rating on the transformer which requires adding an additional transformer, one to provide enough power for the zone valves, the other to provide enough for the smart stats. In this arrangement, you don't want to cross over those circuits, which is the purpose of the relay(s). One other option is to upsize the transformer itself in some cases, such as going from a 40VA transformer to a 70VA, which I would suggest if were talking 3-4 zones maybe. With 5 stats, a better option would be to go with a 6 zone relay panel, which comes with 2 transformers internally (1 transformer per 3 zones) to accommodate this.

[@gtreanto]

Mike, can you do this with the 8 zone relay you have in another video instead of using a rib relay?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

yes, I'll get around to making that because I wanted to redo this one. Just makes more sense to use the one relay, right? lol.

[@daveglover8942]

I have 5 zones, with one being DHW, all Honeywell 4 wire zone valves. I just cut out the bundle of wires and rewired everything using a Taco ZVC405 zone valve controller with Priority for DHW. Power problems solved. It is also so much easier to see whats going on vs a bundle of wires going all over the place. Now I can also see exactly which zone is calling for heat.... Wouldnt this be easier than all the rib relays and messing with extra transformers?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Yes, ideally that is the best solution. The problem is with Nest. Different models have different power demands, none are really compatible with all systems and sometimes power connectors don't work with all zoning relays when common wires are not available. Dealing with this daily, you realize you end up with situations sometimes where your particular set up works beautifully, while with someone else it doesn't work at all because they have a different system, different model Tstat or different relay center Nest doesn't want to play nice with. (I get plenty of questions on why people's Nests aren't working with their relay centers). I made this video as a sort of last resort for the latter situations, where most compatibility issues can be overcome. But you're absolutely tight, a relay center would be best whenever possible. One reason why your set up works well, for example, is because Taco designs their relays to be used with their own zone valves, which require more power than a Honeywell. The transformer in the relay is sized for Tacos and so by using the less demanding Honeywells, there's enough power left over for all of your Nests. But if someone has Taco zone valves, your same exact set up can likely still result in power issues.

[@daveglover8942]

@@JerseyMikeHVAC Understood, thanks for taking the time to reply

[@JoeStroehlein]

Hi Mike, help. I have a Grundfos three zone controller when I hooked up the second nest thermostat. It started to turn the circuit on and off. Spent multiple hours with Nest tech-support, and no help. I did some research and found out the transformer in the zone. Controller cannot powered additional nest thermostats, can you possibly give me a wiring hack

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

You'll have to tap into the 120v powering the zone controller with a second transformer. Wire from the transformer 24volt side load to R terminal on the thermostat. W on thermostat to a relay, then from relay back to transformer common. Other side of relay will get wired to R and W on the zone controller. I have a video on how RIB relays work that will help.

[@perosity]

Can you just not put the blue common wire to the transformer common that powers the zone motors?

[@DavidTew-n3c]

Thank you potroad

[@jeepcam84]

We cant use the one transformer just add additional wire to the google nest ?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

If you have common wires then yeah. You don't need to do any of this in the video. Just hook up common. But you might only get one or two thermostats that way. If you're installing 3 or more you'll probably have to install a other transformer and the relays.

[@jeepcam84]

@@JerseyMikeHVAC thanks Mike

[@seanfarrington7134]

Great video! My system has 2 Taco valves powered from 1 transformer. Same valve style in your video. Can I use the transformer that powers the 2 Taco valves to power my Sensi smart thermostat?

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

@@seanfarrington7134 If it's just the one thermostat I would assume you have enough power in that transformer to cover it.

[@JedidiahKraft]

Thanks for making this! It is very helpful

[@JerseyMikeHVAC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@koreypeters4160]

I hate nest. Too much trouble. Ecobee better. How does this help not having common to stat. Nest have more issues without a common