How to climb as a support in lower ranks

[@zatriaxthealchemist]

Another tip for lower rank/pub supports. If you are trying to deward some place dangerous, and you have ZERO vision on the place that you are going like at 18:00? Hog the scans. Lower mmr players, and dudes just chilling in pubs NEVER take advantage of scans until the late game, and 99% of scans are just going to be dropped on the rosh pit. (if they can even remember which one is the proper one to scan). Use the scans greedily, make sure you know if where you are going to ward is occupied or not. It will save your life, and allow you to spend less time dead. Hope that helps, because it helped me when I was learning :) Especially when you are learning how to track enemies and monitor vision.

[@Meyveda]

Does a scan immediately show you players in the area? Even in smoke?

[@BGLoscar]

@@Meyveda Yes, scan when successful, will tell you if an area has a hero or heroes even if they are smoked or invis. ````````

[@peaceofmind5819]

I had to learn the hard way. Win a team fight, THEN ward. Especially when you are stuck in base. I tried to force dewards and just feed, learned my les😢

[@Biit88121]

Oe just overtake a part of the map as team (3-4 heros, Never all 5)then your free to deward/ward

[@terezaradvanova291]

Yeah, I managed to get out of herald to archon/legend where im stuck around currently and it's crazy how many games are scans not even used at all, so you don't have to worry as support to waste one

[@GiraffeBlues]

I hate that he always includes archon as a low rank but I hate even more that he's right 😭😭😭😭

[@Sh0tgunJust1ce]

As an Archon, it's basically the average rank. You're on the right track if you make it to Archon, you understand your role in teamfights and the like, it's just about more specific min-maxing to make sure you keep climbing, and keeping yourself in form by playing regularly.

[@GadBoDag]

If I really grind my butt off, maybe I can be Archon someday

[@ZQuixotix]

Haha it's more that this video info will be useful even in Archon (and to all ranks), more than Archon being low. In my mind it's Herald-Crusader, Archon-Ancient, and Divine-Immortal. Also, just three medals in the thumbnail looked wrong, the Archon medals really helped get the spacing and sizing right

[@lazylonewolf]

​@@Sh0tgunJust1ce huh that so? I only play unranked, but I'm aware of some sort of hidden MMR system for unranked, and noticed I'm starting to get matched with/against archon and legends.

[@kuroshinryu]

He’s even more right than you think, with all the smurfs in low rank and people who don’t touch high rank account and aren’t getting punished due to low mmr decay, if you completely randomized the mmr of people over the same average, you’d have better odds of people being placed more accurately….

[@Henry_Jones_Jr]

You are the best dota 2 content creator. I have learned so much from you. Great descriptions over what is happening versus what should be happening and how to improve. Keep making those WFIIA videos. I miss those! So much good information from real games and peoole. If you were taking requests, the two things that I seem to struggle with are itemization and what to do if all the lanes are collapsing. I mainly play 1 in a group of 4 or 5 and we are having a hard time figuring out where why we lost. Is mid not rotating, did the offlane lose so hard and not put on pressure, did I as carry rotate too soon and not farm enough aince everyone was calling for help? I can link some match ids if that would help. Thanks again for your videos. They are fantastic.

[@ZQuixotix]

Thank you! If you have an example for a WFIIA, that'd be great! I've been meaning to start that series up again. Wednesday replay streams are also a good time for me to check out one of your games if you or your teammates are ever able to stop by. Itemization is very game dependent, but for lane collapsing, I have a couple quick thoughts 1) Your draft sucks. In party games where everyone just picks what they want to play (or need for tokens), you commonly get drafts that make no sense and you just lose. Taking a moment to discuss some heroes people are interested in playing or having a rough game plan (pick heroes that can push early) helps immensely. 2) Skill issue. Perhaps some people are just messing up lanes they should win. This is where self improvement or giving feedback to each other helps a lot. Potentially you need to draft some straightforward lanes (especially for the lower ranked players in the team if you have a range of levels). The Crusader WD support needing to win lane for a Legend Spectre isn't going to be great, but getting kills together as Lich/MK is much easier to execute. 3) You aren't SUPPOSED to lose 3 lanes consistently, so if you do it's one of the first two things. But it does happen, and when it does, you need to disrupt normal laning ASAP because you are losing normal laning. So the pos 1 jungles for a minute while the 5 rotates to gank mid/offlane. Or you bottle refill and smoke the midlaner and go to a side lane. You need to move heroes around faster than the opponents to catch them off guard. You need to find a few kills to pull the game back. Sometimes dodging the enemies and farming is also a viable plan. It depends on the draft

[@Henry_Jones_Jr]

@@ZQuixotix Hey! I will stop by on a Wednesday night to watch your stream and give you some material to critique haha. We are all between Herald and Guardian so the games are pretty chaotic at times (constantly chaos all the time is what that means haha). I wouldn't say that we consistently lose all three lanes. We have been playing together for several months now and we win more games than we lose together (if we did not we would not be playing together I would assume haha). I think that part of it is trying to figure out what each lane is supposed to achieve. Does Mid exist to rotate to save the other lanes if they are in trouble or when are they supposed to gank (before tower goes down or after, when they hit 6, when someone calls for them)? Does Offlane exist to put pressure on the enemy carry and keep that pressure all game (when should they leave lane to farm or gank)? Does Safe only farm and try to capitalize on advantageous kills or rotate to help save another lane? I think that we have a little lane/role confusion going on sometimes as well. One of our biggest problems is making fights happen (crossing the river), knowing when to fight (good vs bad fight), and making sure we take objectives (towers, rosh, torm). Here are three matches. The first two are us losing (8106210190 and 8106258449). Between the first match and the second match we had a talk to figure out what we were doing wrong and try and figure it out. Offlane losing the lane. Mid not rotating. Safe not capitalizing on kills or rotating to help. However, it comes down to one of those things of, "You don't know what you don't know". This makes it hard to diagnose since we would stop doing that obviously haha. Here is a third where we actually won. I included this because I was curious on what the difference is between the games. Why did we end up winning this one and losing the others. I dont want to believe that we were punching above our weightclass in the ones we lost and the one we actually won we were beating up kindergarteners. I feel that is shifting blame and I want to learn not blame the system. We kept pressure on them and was able to capitalize on their misplays. Anyway, there are many things going on in these haha. Sorry for the avalanche of words haha. If you have any more questions let me know.

[@jeffreywright5431]

Dunno if you took a break but I'm glad to see you're still making content!

[@olgagaming5544]

"as a ranged... as a support" - he was about to say - as a ranged creep lmao

[@basketball2560]

Just played 4 games yesterday and I'm realizing that tanky supports is the way to go cuz you can't rely on the cores who simply suck!

[@JewTube001]

Aba support is probably the easiest between herald to archeon. You're mostly unkillable

[@knkaitlog]

real shit bro. in low ranks people are all damage dealer and noone wants to jump in lmao. abadon and clock for me are the best pos5 ​@@JewTube001

[@murraymcgregor7829]

Yeah my steam account was stolen. Playing support on a new account in low ranks is so hard. On the rare occasion when I get to play core, the game goes so well.

[@Biit88121]

11:45 denieing a creep there has one big point: if any enemy hero is close to him, his hero will say somthing lile „haha you cannot have this one“ .. and then you know theres an enemy hero close… also works if they are invis

[@nightwind_ow]

Thanks for another useful video! :) Suggestion for a video I'd love to see is you going through a few (or just one) of the currently often-picked cores and discuss how that hero being on the enemy team affects your decisions as pos 5. Like items you should be getting, how you need to play around them in team fights and any extra precautions you need to take throughout the game just because that hero exists. Hope that makes sense. 😅

[@copycal]

The XP indicator is such a useful inclusion. I always used to stand far too close and get caught out

[@AvazeGorgha]

0:31 is going to ruin a lot of safe players' day lol xD Also bear in mind, supports at Herald are also Heralds, I don't know if they'd do better with the farm.

[@fajitas4every1]

I calibrated at 4k way back when Ranked was introduced. Throughout the years and at one point about an 8 month break, eventually sank to Crusader 1. Just reached Divine a week ago after about 1.5 years of climbing, and THE BIGGEST thing I did was simply use my mic to make calls for the team. Sucks to win a fight and then have cores go farm jungle, so I immediately get on mic and just say "push mid" or "go rosh" and not flame people even if they don't listen. You now have a huge advantage over the enemy in that you are working together.

[@ikthranithul6000]

17:25 for these situation don't be afraid to scan, especially in the depths of mmr because its not like your team mates will use them. I always pick up a telescope and tbh at least one support in your team should. Scans are such a valuable tool if you learn when is good to use them :D

[@malcolmlau1068]

Ever since they reworked oracle to have no downsides. its a surefire hero to climb. Everyone just hits whatever is in front of them and just forget you exist. Saves are so key in low MMR

[@murraymcgregor7829]

Yess and I love the insane amount of healing you can do on Oracle since healing items that would usually be dispelled upon taking damage can heal the hero for the full amount if used in combination with your ultimate. For example you can use your ultimate on a teammate then use urn of shadows and a salve on them and you will get the full healig because damage is delayed and healing values are doubled during Oracle's ultimate.

[@del10artem]

Advice for all low mmr supports: pick GREEDY heroes!!! No io, no Oracle, no Abaddon, no Dazzle. With those, you completely rely on your low mmr carries who are bad by default. Pick some scaling, greedy heroes who can dish decent damage like Hoodwink, Ogre (with Midas), Mirana, even Enigma if you can micro the Eidolons and get farm. Push free lanes and make sure to carry TP so you can join your team in teamfights. You can't play proper support up until Ancient bracket coz people don't know to play around you. So just go as a semi core, but still buy support stuff like wards, dust, Glimmer/Force if really needed.

[@Codec264]

> Advice for all low mmr supports: pick GREEDY heroes!!! No io, no Oracle, no Abaddon, no Dazzle. With those, you completely rely on your low mmr carries who are bad by default. Pick some scaling, greedy heroes who can dish decent damage like Hoodwink, Ogre (with Midas), Mirana, even Enigma if you can micro the Eidolons and get farm. Push free lanes and make sure to carry TP so you can join your team in teamfights. You can't play proper support up until Ancient bracket coz people don't know to play around you. So just go as a semi core, but still buy support stuff like wards, dust, Glimmer/Force if really needed. this can be true, but it's important that you are actually able to use that hero well. I've seen a lot of "farming supports" (espeically enigma) who have the least impact on their team.

[@weasel6843]

i climbed from herald to legend only playing dazzle and oracle, you should play what you enjoy haha its true that if you have a totally idiotic carry and mid and offlane, you will feel very powerless and lose, but if you got this team then this will probably happen regardless, it just will feel less bad because you got to run around the map pushing useless waves in all likelihood tho, you will have at least 1 useful core, and save supports have a ton of outplay potential in low mmr because of how effectively they can bait enemies who don't understand your hero as well as you do. also both these heros have very solid early game kill potential at lvl 3. dazzle literally has a potentially infinite damage & duration slow at level 1, which teaches you the importance of right click harassing the enemies throughout lane, which is a big mistake that new players make (not right clicking enough), and oracle is great at securing kills, runes, and his root forces you to be intentional, click on enemy heroes & think about what buffs and debuffs you can purge but just play whats fun for you

[@del10artem]

@@Codec264 Of course, being good with the hero is mandatory. A good Enigma player is more useful than a good Dazzle player.

[@JewTube001]

Problem is you need learn heroes like oracle and IO. You'll be very very very bad at those heroes if you swapped from hoodwink mid 2k

[@knkaitlog]

i hate ogre midas with all my heart

[@BaptisteVigier]

Liked the video for that pudge imitation 🤣 17:49

[@K1razxc]

Hey, Zach! I've really enjoyed your content so far and it has helped me go from herald to divine. However I'm feeling a bit stuck so far... Is there a chance that you would make a video about supporting in divine getting to immo? I feel like my biggest issues so far are games where we're just getting demolished from all lanes and I'm just feeding my brains out. Thanks!

[@bearofpanda5651]

Pro tip for low Mmr supports. Steal the wisdom. Pre crusader almost no support is at the rune when it spawns. Gate. Smoke. Steal it and tp to yours. The difference in lvl 6 on supports can be massive.

[@F1LTH7KYS]

i started as a guardian 2 sup player and after 3500 hours i am 6kmmr immortal sup and i agree with him Start the match as a support finish the match as a core in those ranks

[@dingding12321]

Tbf cores won't miss much losing cs as opposed to what supports can gain from cs. It's surely better than cs getting denied as well...

[@jarmago7750]

I always do this as a support with my duo friend who is a core.

[@essaymnet]

Hey ZQuixotix - I've been playing support 4/5 for a year of ranked and moved up to crusader 3. I have no idea how to play carry - would love to start playing carry, but feel if i swap over we will lose BAD because of my low carry skill and being in crusader - and suggestions?

[@hotharvey2]

when you finally reach legend and this video no longer applies... but the realise that a learning mindset got you to legend and you may still learn from this video 🎉

[@ZQuixotix]

Learning mindset will always win! This replay was for a Herald so I aimed the video at lower ranks, but honestly a lot of the things mentioned in this video are still essentially for even Immortals. The situations you would do this are different for higher ranks (needing to push lanes with the most expendable hero vs literally no one doing it so you can scale) but you'll see this even in pro matches

[@MieczyslawPawelKolenda]

I was watching 9Clas, he manages to get 10 LS per minute without grieving his cores... he is rank 35 btw. I can't even get this level of farm on a core. Farming is very useful skill on supp, as by playing Shaker or Bat I have noticed that when I get 12 mins blink, I win 80% of my games. Also you can see farming in impact differential between you and enemy supp. Let's say you are Bat, Lesh or ES and you have core level of farm in late game, do you truly believe that enemy supports will ever manage to have same level of impact in fight with their blink and glimer 50 mins into the game? I hardly think so!) Next level play: you can globally pull creep agro to reduce the damage your creeps are taking. Especially if you are hero like AA or Bane.

[@MorsHs]

Climbed my way out in guardian to legend by playing pos 4/5 and oh boy my toxicity scale went from 5% to 95% imo due to very very bad players

[@rhyanrichjanubas8302]

So that's why there's a shaman in my game earlier. Maybe they saw your vid.

[@sgtpatton]

17:48 S+ pudge impression lolol

[@BeatCone]

Right of the bat this cs thing. Its funny how high mmr players laugh at us for bad cs like I get 40-55 cs at 10 min with abaddon offlane and that was the amount immortal got in game I just watched from youtube. Yet Im climbing 67.85 winrate over 64 games played so far this position with aba.

[@plegus5927]

So SS review won in the end 🥲

[@alibaltschun2302]

please make a video support player for devine to get importal 🙏

[@DMacDaddy]

2025 starting out good!

[@Siroitin]

9:20 Isn't that lowkey denying your teams farm? You should maybe just last hit one creep and not deal partial damage to all

[@vesae2676]

The wave was already pushing so it was probably unsafe for your team to farm. If it was pushing into you, you would do better to let that necro take it. In low ranks pushing waves is less denying farm from your team, because people are really bad at catching the waves in the first place, so they would go to waste anyway.

[@ZQuixotix]

At mid/high ranks, you would definitely want to let Necro have that farm while you go ward. Shortly after, I actually mention that where I say he's doing the right thing for higher ranked games, but in lower ranked games, you have to be greedier as a 'support'. Necro goes further into the jungle and then TPs to the triangle which means no one would have pushed this lane. Or Necro could have pushed one wave and then left (you are free to stay in the area and watch at this time), but not made it to the tower to do anything impactful with it. Or maybe he takes a bunch of the farm, and then doesn't join fights or builds bad items. The reality is that it's safer to play differently (greedier) so that you have more individual power as a 'support' in these lower ranked games. If Necro is there, we aren't going to last hit in front of his face, but if no one is communicating or saying they are going to get this farm, then it's better to just do these things quickly to make things happen in the game

[@Siroitin]

@@ZQuixotix Ok, my point doesn't hold because like @vesae2676 said the wave was already pushing on enemy side. I think your videos most important point was at 20:00. You can redeem your sinful actions by deep warding.

[@jesse1586]

ZAPPPPPP

[@wsmartingil5688]

hahaha forget about all that when you're gonna lose, nothing can help you... matchmaking is awful

[@midmitad]

First

[@victorsenna5729]

Man, ive been support on dota 1 for like 7 years, been back to dota now 6 months ago, you just cant climb mmr, in the low braclets, being support, period. Maybe you, 10kmmr, can get from 500 to 2k being support, but not other people.

[@bovineavenger734]

I went from 1k to 3.5k The friends I play with went from 2k back to 500 because no matter how much I carry them, they sink back when they play without me. It's the opposite for me, playing with them just means I have to solo to rise back longer. Playing solo support takes more games to climb because no matter how good you are the carry still caries far more weight no matter how hard you make him win lanes.

[@ocab9589]

That cope brah I started playing in two years playing mostly 5 and am divine you're just making excuses mate

[@victorsenna5729]

@@ocab9589 2 years. I went from 400mmr to 2k with 200mmr/week, only with hc, couldnt support this low bracket, not a chance

[@PrimeSubToMeTTV]

I went from 1900 MMR to 2600 in the last 2 weeks and am stable 2500-2600 after being 1900-2100 for months. A big part of it was realizing I had slid into a negative mindset and working to correct it. No matter how the game is going your goal is to win and you need to stay focused on how to make that happen no matter how frustrating your cores are.

[@InStevenWeTrust]

Cores will obviously have more influence in the game's outcome but great supports enable their cores. They allow them to last hit effectively, set up ganks, win the vision game and transition strongly from the laning stage into the mid game. There are many examples of supports climbing into the highest brackets from solo queue 4/5. In my experience, people who say this cannot be done (in any aspect of life) are coping with their own inadequacies.

[@babikboi]

😂🤣 this is what my friend did. I mean he usually plays pos 3, but recently he spammed cm as pos 5. It's not stealing if your cores doesn't want to push the lane themselves. And i can count on him to take stacks if not a single core takes it. Nothing is more painful than losing your stacks to enemies. 🫣