Again this MAGA apologist. Disgusting.

Pro Ukrain lobby around Trump administration must be stepped up!

It is people like you that promote ideas thy Ukraine has a chance to win against Russia and therefore should fight on are responsible for thousands of deaths of Ukrainian people. As a Ukrainian.

Oh god I had to stop listening, the speaker was so unintentionally toxic. He's fallen into the same trap as Jake Broe: So desperate for America to 'not be the bad guys' that he's talking around all the toxicity and harm as if it doesn't matter as long as we can get something we want. An extreme example would be someone looking away from abuse and corruption because the guy is giving you a million dollars - it's not ok to ignore abuse and corruption no matter how much money the perpetrator gives you, and it's not OK to sane-wash and appease a fascist criminal just because you think you can wrangle something out of it for yourself. You are effectively participating in, and propagating, progressively terminal corruption. The only way to not do that is to not engage. If I could get a cure for cancer but it would require shoving some children in a blender, it would be the morally wrong choice for me to do it, regardless of how much I wanted my cancer cured. Engaging with Trump's evil regime on any level, until it was clear that they were no longer toxic and corrupt (spoiler: not gonna happen), is a form of enabling. Any good person, if they understood the dynamics at play, would not give Trump one inch of anything he wanted, nor ask anything from him other than for him to not be corrupt and face the legal consequences he should have but has to far dodged. The position of this deeply naive speaker is paving the way for America to become Russia 2.0, no matter how well intentioned it is. Every Ukrainian should be horrified at the thought of a second Putin rising in the West, and if they truly understood what was at play, they should not want to trade one Putin for one that is ten times stronger and even more insane.

EU is most stupid loser

A very thought provoking discussion. One thought of my own: Wrecking balls can't build. They only destroy, and they are indiscriminate about what they destroy.

Ukraine was historically where run away serfs and prosecuted escaped to freedom. Remember the Pale? Kulaks, Polish and Lithuanian settlers? All escaping from Russian theft and coercion.

Ukraine 🇺🇦 is sadly finished and will never recover from the mistake they made trusting the west.

Thank you for keeping Ukraine on agenda and support

Despite no jobs and people can no longer afford to live, people will be lining up to live off the government. Acquiring $62k monthly is indeed a blessing...

I think Jake makes a good point. Americans are so much more proud of their nation and service personnel. When I got out, that’s was the end of any engagement from the military. No follow up. No help. There were no veterans association back then. No one checked up. It’s isolating and demoralising. The feeling of being cast aside pervades. I’m sure veterans today have more back up. But still some fall through the system.

Thanks guys ❤

Things doesn’t just work without bureaucracy. How silly he sounds. Like the stupid Brexit supporters who got a red tape EXPLOSION outside the EU and killed the British economy. The answer to a safe democratic marketplace is EFFECTIVE bureucracy, standards and rules.

Sup bois

Joe is very naive if he thinks that MAGA cares about empathy. You could literally watch Ukraine being destroyed in real time for the last three years, yet they choose to watch Tucker instead, telling them about Lucifer Zelenskyy. The only positive is that if Trump says that Ukraine is a friend, all the MAGA fans will turn Ukraine friends immediately. The problem is Donald is going to blame Zelenskyy, if peace deal doesn't happen. Not Putin.

Great interview. But as for projecting values...looking from here in the UK at who the USA has put in the White House, I no longer understand what American values are.

Took me a few days to get here, but it was well worth it. Lots of well articulated concepts.

Thank you, Jonathan. ❤️🇺🇦 👍 Lesia.

re: Reflexive control theory! The same has happened with the divisive rage based political arguments in the US or over Brexit in the UK. People holding emotional arguments saw/see counter arguments as a threat, and any emotional tethers to their position are reinforced. If a belief can be modelled as [emotional tether + any old narrative], then the emotional part is the driver. Only an equivalent emotional counter belief can vaccinate against it. In real life it's when you bang your head against reality despite the stories you tell yourself. Of course that's more useful for populist politicians because of the emotional weighting of their arguments, and because any bad consequences are betted on being after the unfortunate believers have served out their usefulness.

MEGA!!!

THANK YOU KON AND JON. CAN'T HELP FEELING THAT RUSSIA IS GOING DOWN THE SAME PATH AS THE FORMER SOVIAT UNION. IT IS A COUNTRY RUN ON (EXTREME) THEORY AND CORUPTION --ALSO RUN BY A PROVEN PSYCOPATH,LIEING, MURDERER... WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!!!! FROM VIC, AUSTRALIA.

GOT IT ! " Reflexive Control Theory in the context of Russian Propaganda. Joe Lindsay - Thankyou so much. I listen to and learn about Ukraine with the help of Silicon Curtain, Jake Broke and Inside Russia . All so good and thankyou so much for being there. For Joe Lindsey - you just gave me one of the missing pieces to the what Russia is doing. I have been always a bit mystified as to why some people would fall for Russian Propaganda but had never heard of Reflexive control Theory. Now I know where to go and what to do about it and hopefully help. Wish I was as bright as all you guys sorry it took so long to discover Joe Lindsay, but now I can do what I can do. Brilliant Discussion! Thankyou 👍

Russian propaganda: things that are true (unpleasantly).

Interesting tweet from Gen Kellogg's daughter, Meaghan Mobb today: “One of the new great falsehoods being pushed by bad actors is there is nothing worth fighting and dying for. Peace at all costs isn’t peace, it’s surrender disguised as virtue. True peace requires strength, sacrifice, and the willingness to defend what is right-even when it costs.” 💯 Meaghan is president.of the R.T. Weatherman Foundation, one of the main organizers of humanitarian aid supplies to Ukraine since the beginning of the war, a Trump supporter, West Point grad, former paratrooper and combat veteran, with a master’s in forensic psychology from GW University, and has a doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University.

He is too much of a MAGA fan - a fantasist.

Great conversation ! I agree, we don't understand Russians - their worldview is so different. I have a clipping from Time Magazine, from 2022, on my studio wall that is a quote from Pres. Zelenskyy: "This is not a war of two armies. It is a war of two worldviews." He said this in a recorded address to Ukrainians, on May 9, Victory Day, which celebrates the victory of USSR over Nazi Germany. He couldn't have been more right ! 🇺🇦 💙💛 It's worth taking time to see the Russians for who they are and how they engage the world.

Ukraine in the EU. Thanks but no Thanks. Zelensky has made it clear that he is more interested in American interest, than European with his sucking up to trump and lying about aid. In the EU we already have countries that further other countries interests over European (Hungary and Slovakia) we don't need more countries that are furthering other countries agendas than European. The sad thing is that trump (to paraphrase him) only wants Americas money back then he doesn't care what happens to ukraine if it becomes russian or not. It's not only Ukrainian sovereignty that counts! It's Greenland a fellow eu country. It's Canada an ally to ukraine that hasn't asked for anything in return. It's gaza and Panama.

When it comes to European cities: a lot of the unrest you see comes from African, Arab and Eastern migrants. I think we Europeans still have our great culture but we made a mistake how we handled them. Too many single men from patriarchal societies.

Secrets for a safer city? Really? Hoe about no arab or african immigrants? Try that. No wonder kiev had safe cities before the 2022 war.

Regarding any "post wrecking ball" vision for America's future, Trump recently pinpointed the azimuth of America's greatness as between 1870 and 1913... when it was great for less than half a dozen robber barons. I am not optimistic that Ukraine is being considered as the role model for rebuilding we might hope for. Ukraine has a strongly unified community where collectivism has been forced upon them, yet are strongly individualistic at the same time. They are showing a similar underdog agility to maybe Sweden, which also has a Scandinavian collectivist + individualistic streak and militarily speaking, has turned it towards innovation rather than say the ability to mobilise conventionally, like say, Finland. Sweden has to some extent bypassed the conventional complexity and over-engineering and excessive support costs of establishment money pits for military procurement, with projects like Gripen. Scandinavia was very aware of its vulnerability during the cold war and the plan seems to have been to go down swinging. I don't think that translates to a triumphant Musk/Trump post wrecking ball rebuild. The obvious fear is that the future of the US will reflect their egos more than Ukranian pluck and ingenuity. We'll see.

Excellent! Thank you to you both!

Do I sense a big insurance payment..

At 1:07:00-ish, America doesn't WANT bases in Europe anymore, at least not as many as it has now. Fucking off is the EXACT GOAL of Trump, and the very real sentiment of the Americans he represents. Americans never got to enjoy the "peace dividend" that ALL OF EUROPE got to experience several decades of. It's been a VERY lopsided arrangement. Russia is NOT as big or as immediate of a threat to America as it is to Europe. I'm sorry to say, that's just fact. America SHOULDN'T be expected to have to spend as much as a European country to defend it. ESPECIALLY when Europe expects only America to fight the threat of China. How many European countries are helping deter China right now on the Pacific front? 🤔 I'm pretty sure the answer is ONLY the UK. Europe as a whole only ever increases trade with China, funding China's exponential military growth. Europe looks the other way when China is aggressive to other nations. When China builds artificial islands to claim the waters and airspace belonging to other nations, when China bullies its neighbors, Europe is VERY noticeably silent... and then increases trading ties with China even more a few months later😒

If we in the rest of Europe had the same love for our countries as Ukrainians do for theirs, things would look a lot brighter all around

It’s more likely down to a lack of maintenance, which is down to The war and sanctions. More and more this is going to happen there airplanes are going start to fall out of the sky. down being the general direction of all things Russian

Lesia’s bright, but her interpretation of events in the US is pretty screwy.

It's like the "careless" smokers are looking for ways to "punk" the Russian establishment.

Thank you! Slava Ukraini🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦!!!

Thank you for your opinion, you really know Ukrainian society.

Looks like Russian petroleum infrastructure west of the Urals are being systematically destroyed. Russia will have to depend on plants east of the Urals plus the ….. Stan’s. Quite a dilemma for a nation at war.

🙂 Слава Україна 🇺🇦 з 🇦🇺

NATO join Ukraine

earlier in my life I worked as a sales rep for BAT, an episode for which I have been embarrassed by ever since. It is so bad working for a tobacco company but now I discover I was really working for a weapons dealer; how can I reconcile this humiliating past?

We in the West seem to lack strategic imagination, not to speak of a tactical one.

Well, since Trump and his admin pretends to be Christians they should be shown that Ukraine have the real conservative, patriot Christians.

You said the Koala was 2023. According to Vessel Tracker: The 'Koala' a Turkish-owned, Cypriot-managed Suezmax. is 22 years old, past the typical retirement age for a crude oil tanker, and has changed her flag state four times in the past year.

AfD are very clearly the Nazis. I worry much about them.