How far have you gotten with your build?

I have finished my mix room and live room build Simon . Done that in last April.

That makes sense for a 100' run. From what I understand it takes a high quality cable to transmit sound cleanly over a long distance. Ethercon is excellent.

The plywood makes it easier to mount acoustic treatment. No difference on STC. The weight of the 3 layers I’m using is almost the same as 2 layers of full weight 5/8” drywall. If you’re interested, there’s more details on how I made this decision in my video on drywall and air sealing.

I think it was around $1200 Canadian altogether. Can't find the amount for everything, but that should be close enough. That includes my experiment with the plywood.

For the resilient channels? Those are made to be installed without clips. In the video after - Ceiling Rebuild - I use furring channels with Sonusclips.

Dricore is an underlayment, so nothing else needed (though you can add one if you want). Just need to ensure the dricore is pushed together tight at the seams.

I’m not familiar with tesco. Why would I want it in between the layers?

I used screws for the plywood. It's important to put screws through into the furring channels for each layer. The strength of the assembly depends on the furring channels carrying the weight. You don't need as many for the first couple layers, just be sure to put lots in the final layer. I bought 3 sizes of screws to make sure I had the right length for each layer. I used LePage Acousti-Seal. It's the only sealant that I could find locally that stays flexible over time.

@@simonbaxtermusic thanks for the indepth response. I am really scared to tackle the project on my own, but seeing your footsteps makes mine a bit less burdening.

I know how you feel. 2 things I can recommend: 1. Buy Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros by Rod Gervais. This was my template for my own build. 2. Check out the channel Soundproof Your Studio. He offers training courses that I would have considered if I had known out about it earlier in my build. It’s a marathon for sure. You can do it. These resources can make it easier.

No trouble at all. I got mine from Rona, but Home Depot also had the same kind. I can't remember the size and guage off the top of my head, but it was in the instructions for the Sonusclips. If you're also using Sonusclips look up the PDF guide (easy to find with a Google search), and then check if the size listed available at your local stores.

Ok thank you

For the walls I followed the instructions provided for the DE90 clips. I also emailed the manufacturer Regupol to verify. They said a 2’ x 4’ grid is needed for 2 layers of 5/8” drywall. I’m not sure about it tbh, that’s the same as I ended up with for the ceiling basically, and the clips are holding the full weight vs the walls which are sitting on the concrete floor. I might do some more research to see if I could get away with just DE90 near the top of the studs, if I were to do it again. I had the same concerns about the doors, so I’ve got 2 doors, one in each wall, and there’s no connection. I covered the gap over with fabric. That will be coming out in a future video. For the plywood I saw that in a video from a mix engineer I follow. His studio designer recommended it for being able to easily hang pictures etc. I’m going to use it for hanging acoustic panels without having to find studs. I calculated what was acceptable weight in the way you’re describing, including weight left over for acoustic panels plus buffer. I show that in my drywall video if you’re curious to see the details.

Thanks for the info! It sounds like you got a more helpful rep with regipul than I did. They basically just told me that they're only guidance was no more than 48 in apart and make sure that the weight was <35 lbs / clip overall.

@@cameronearl8091 I imagine they are playing it safe to avoid liabilities. If you haven’t seen it yet, look up the installation guide for the DE90s. It covers most situations. And if installing more clips than needed is the end result I’m not overly bothered. It’s a small cost among the thousands I’ve spent building the studio. More or less of them won’t make a difference on soundproofing. Another resource you can check out is the channel Soundproof Your Studio. It’s a guy named Wilson who used the same style of clips in his studio and he only put the top row in. He also offers training/courses which I would have done if I’d known about it earlier in my build.

Products like green glue do effectively seal the layers, but that’s nice byproduct. The main purpose is to dampen. It turns sound vibrations into heat which reduces sound transfer. The issue I’m tackling with the sealant is to ensure the each layer is a complete layer, to get the full value of the drywall. Where there’s unsealed gaps the sound travels directly to the next layer and you effectively have a single layer of drywall rather than 2 layers, for example. It’s a small detail, but it matters in soundproofing. In the same way that sealing an exterior wall will maximize climate control in the home.

So it’s not a replacement, to answer your question. Personally, I prefer adding more layers of drywall or plywood instead of green glue. I’m posting my next video this week where I rebuild the ceiling. That might give you some ideas as well.

Wait, I think I misunderstood your question. I didn’t use any sealant in between layers except where there are seams between sheets of drywall. There wasn’t any sealant sandwiched between drywall layers.

Gotcha: I think I misunderstood what you were finding as their mistake as well. It wasn't that they didn't use it between sheets of drywall: I see now that you were noting that they hadn't even used it in the seams of the inner layer of drywall, just in a few areas of the entire project. I look forward to the next video. I think I'm probably going to go with some carpet glue between the layers of drywall and acoustic sealant as they should have done, in the seams between drywall on a given layer and at corners.

After the rebuild it’s 7’ 2”. With the resilient channels it was around 7’ 4”.

@@simonbaxtermusic Thanks for the respond.

Good results overall, though it seems it’s not possible to completely eliminate footsteps whenever the ceiling is connected to the floor above (even with rubber isolators). I’m currently editing that video, hope to have it up in the next week or two. I’m trying out a lot of different tests throughout the house, not just the floor immediately above. I’m noticing a substantial difference the further away the noise is. Doesn’t travel into the studio unless it’s very close.

@@simonbaxtermusic Genie clips are great and they out-perform most resilient bars….fixing them to an independent timber frame isolated from the conflicting ceiling with a concrete construction we find you should only expect a 50% human perceived reduction in impact noise from above…..if you got more than that….you have done very well.

@jimprior7 If I understand your example correctly, the advantage I have is that the walls are also connected using isolation clips. I had used resilient channels on the ceiling to save some height, but have rebuilt it with RSIC clips. So the walls and ceiling all have a rubber connection to the rest of the house. What I hear now is dull thumps when kids are running directly above the studio. All of the high frequency sounds I was hearing before is gone.

As a contractor I can tell you that having a set of plans that detail proper installation is very important when having a specialty installation done. A good set of plans and instructions will clear up confusion for the contractor. Also, a good set of drawings and instructions supplied to the contractor sets you up for a much easier time of suing the contractor for correcting mistakes caused by his ignoring the instructions.

Glad it’s helpful!

Thanks for the feedback and kind words. I read The Master Handbook of Acoustics and Rod Gervais' Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros. This is my chance to finally put all that knowledge to the test. I've seen the GypFloor system before. I am hoping I'll get the chance to do something like that in the future. My wife and I will eventually do some main floor renovations, and that's when I'm most likely to give it a shot. I'm looking forward to testing the isolation after the doors are finished so I can get an accurate picture of what's still coming through the ceiling.

Thanks for the sub!

I've had success with other contractors on typical home projects. Soundproofing is a specialized field though, and easy for regular contractors to underestimate.

All the MLV I could find was really expensive. So I stuck with more affordable materials.

If you mean Green Glue I personally find it too expensive. I’ve also heard that Rod Gervais doesn’t recommend it anymore because the formula has changed since the last lab tests. If it still works as advertised it’s a fantastic product and would make the dw/ply/dw even more effective. I’m hoping to run some small scale tests on various products in the future. Would be helpful to see how it compares.

😂 yeah no acoustic treatment yet

You’re probably right

@@simonbaxtermusic check yourself before you wreck yourself, cos dust in your lungs is bad for yo health

The climbing room wall is connected to the floor and ceiling as usual. The studio wall is then connected to the climbing room wall with isolation clips to reduce vibration between the walls. I’ve created a “room within a room”, where the studio is decoupled from the rest of the house with isolation clips. Not as effective as a completely separate structure, but much better than standard construction. Since it’s a basement I didn’t have the space to build a completely separate structure.

@@simonbaxtermusic I understand why you'd use isolation clips for the ceiling but why connect the walls at all? I presume you lapped the top plates and fastened the bottom plates to the slab in which case the structure is fully self-supporting and would need no contact with neighboring partitions.

@@helmanfrow The only time I’ve seen a fully isolated structure is when there’s a frame for the ceiling that keeps the full length of the wall rock solid. I definitely noticed a difference in strength for my walls when I attached the iso clips. It’s possible I could have done what you’re describing if I had secured the top plates differently, but it wasn’t an option I was aware of at the time. The bottom plates are power hammered into the slab.

This. This is what my video is about. Showing how easily things can go wrong. I had multiple conversations with the contractor and his crew. I could tell they had limited experience, but it wasn’t their first time installing resilient channels. I talked with them about how to install resilient channels, how the drywall would be overlapped, and where to use the acoustic sealant. As I discovered, those conversations didn’t stick. I should have checked their work at every step instead of trusting that they followed my instructions. The only disagreement I would say is that there is some fault on the contractor. In our initial conversations the contractor was trying to teach me about soundproofing. He eventually realized I knew more about the subject, but he still had trouble accepting my ideas. This is the part of the industry culture that sets everyone up for failure. Stick to what you know and don’t try to teach homeowners about things you don’t understand. You can see it in some of the other comments, how quickly contractors come to the defence of the contractor I had, or even saying how I should be building the ceiling. Unless you live in a city like Nashville, very few contractors have built soundproof rooms, and even fewer have done proper testing of the results at the end. Yet most are quick to share their “wisdom”.

"most contracts are not educated" that's how I would have put it.

@@simonbaxtermusic So do you think one would need to use acoustic sealant between the bottom edge of cornices and a brick wall.

@@PotatoesRniceyou have a brick wall in your studio? I’m not sure I understand the example as it relates to soundproofing.

@@simonbaxtermusic well actually I have 4 brick walls in my studio. So I am wondering about the joint between the plasterboards and the brick walls. I am using isolation mounts on ceiling

It would depend on a lot of things, first question being what are the walls made of? If it’s stone that’s much heavier than drywall so it can absorb a lot more sound. But you still have windows and doors and those old homes aren’t air tight like new ones. Anywhere air can travel sound can travel. So there’s a lot of weak points that would offset the benefits of a heavier wall. Best thing to do is ask what your ultimate goal is and then find the best way to solve that problem. If you’re building a music studio then I recommend Rod Gervais’ book “Build It Like The Pros: Home Recording Studio”. It’s the best all purpose resource I know of. I’m building my studio with that book as the foundation of my design.

It’s so disappointing explaining the right way to do things and then they do it the wrong way. There are good contractors, but just as many poor ones it seems.

I had many conversations with the contractor and his crew throughout the job. As I mentioned in the video, they didn’t follow my instructions. As for SONOpan, they actually recommend using it with resilient channels. That product is a whole discussion on its own and I’ll be getting to that in a future video.

@@simonbaxtermusic I just hate seeing the "bad contractor video" I've been in business a long time its hard for small business and lot of times its not black and white . I know resilient channels are taught in carpenter schools and it can be a grey area area sound proofing .The panel I used them helped but not soundproof .In all the jobs I've done not one customer asked for soundproofing because of the extra money and very few customers had the knowledge of good sound equipment .So you're a rare breed which is good do your homework lots of good videos out there. I respect the fact your fixing and educating yourself you have to being a homeowner also makes it easy when you hire new contractors the'll know what you want. Good topic and video

I hear that. I never expected this video to take off and get the attention of contractors. I’m a tiny channel, still learning KZbin. My drywall contractor was terrible and I was too far into the project by the time I realized just how bad he and his team was. My goal was to share that experience, not take a shot at every contractor. I used an HVAC contractor for the studio and he was amazing. Open, curious, willing to try new things and learn. We figured it out together.

Glad it was helpful!

resilient channel is better for decoupling versus furring strips.

Good to know about the box cutter, though hopefully I won’t need to do this again. 😁 I do have 2 layers of rockwool in the ceiling and more in the walls. The stretch tape would be a lot easier for air sealing. I had to look it up didn’t know what it was.

He's still going to hear those footsteps! lol ..

@@RyanMagicAus I know!he needs to take the floor upstairs out, decouple the subfloor, then Add 1/2 rubber membrane, then the floor. Maybe that might work

Never said I had the best technique 🤣

Wish I had that option!

That makes senses logically, but the manufacturer has detailed installation instructions and recommends using up to 2 layers of 5/8” drywall. Whether it can vibrate or not with that much weight would depend on the properties of the metal. You might be right, but I didn’t come across anything about it in the instructions. 5/8” is recommended for sound dampening because of the weight. Mass is the number 1 way to attenuate sound.

I always like hearing how other’s studios hold up over the long term. Gives me confidence the sound isolation will hold up for my studio also.

Honestly, I’m happier doing it myself than working with that contractor again. They did our whole basement and the end result is fine (apart from what I showed in this video), but trying to discuss anything with him nearly ended in an argument. He told me multiple times that I didn’t know how things work, and he was always looking for opportunities to charge more because this or that wasn’t part of the deal. And many other problems along the way.

That is the dream build! If I had the ceiling height I definitely would have built a detached ceiling.

“Avoid Contractors”??? so who are you going to contract when you need plumbing? Who are you going to contract when you need a roof done or to build you a custom home? Maybe you guys are just looking at the wrong guys that are calling themselves contractors with no experience.

@@carlosizurieta885 I meant specifically for soundproofing applications. It’s a super niche specialty and easy to get wrong. But, since you brought it up, for plumbing, electrical, and framing projects a homeowner can pull their own permits in my area. Code books aren’t hard to read and a lot of things you’re going to do in a house can be accomplished with a handful of tools and/or rentals (or at least that’s been my experience in many, many years of home ownership). I enjoy doing the work myself, the projects move on my timeline, and I have yet to fail an inspection for anything. Do I think I’m as good as a pro? Certainly not, but the work I do is good enough, and there are a ome things I won’t mess around with, like structural repairs since I’m not a p.eng, but yeah. Now, if you have no interest in doing any of that, by all means go find a contractor.

@@carlosizurieta885not at all what I said. The title is “don’t trust your contractor WITH SOUNDPROOFING“. In the video I say to be careful which tasks you do vs the contractor, and if the contractor is doing anything soundproofing related check their work. I used an HVAC contractor for my studio and they were fantastic.