If intelligence played a part in heroic action timings that would be pretty awesome! It would be really nice to know what order they will go off in instead of waiting for the roll off which feels very arbitary. Obviosuly this has a balancing issue as intelligence is likely weighted heavily to good factions and within good factions is heavily weight to Elves then liekly Dwarves before men, but I'm sure the points can handle this.

Hopefully they have remembered why SS were introduced, and changed the strength characteristics or the damage table accordingly. There are 2 things I fear. This game was kept pretty well balanced until they started introducing LL's. Then we got hit with powercreeps, and some very unbalanced power lists/profiles like Vanquishers, Black Riders and the DE. Now we are gonna believe they will be able to write 100 odd army lists/Legions and still keep things balanced??? It has potential nightmare written all over it. Secondly - as someone who enjoys creative list writing and holds that to be my favourite part of the hobby. I fear that in addition to unbalancing special rules - there will be to many restrictions on how we are allowed to build armies - to just suck the light out of that part of the hobby for me and many others. So I won't be in any hurry to acquire the new rulebooks myself, probably wait until all the supplements are out and we have functioning army builders around before seriously considering to pick up the new books. If at all. Which will have consequences for the local tournament scene as Im also one of very few TO's.

I don't think the legacy pdf will have more than 4-6 profiles. I am pritty certain that Helm Hammerhand will be one of them as he will get a new model and profile with the new Movie. Also a lot of people confuse the Armys of Middle-earth with the legacy Pdf. Not all non Movie models will be gone😂

I'm scared

Nice to hear a more positive review

I know your hating on bolg/azog but I hope they don't bring lots of normal hero's up to them in fight value as in the movies both are absolute units! (This might come from the fact I have just spent my life's savings collecting Azog and friends)

I will miss the 3+ in the way a bit. There are just situations were there is the question if this justifice a in the way roll and then you can agree on a 3+ roll.

Getting my hopes up with an all troll legion then immediately retconning it is incredibly frustrating

The WarCom article did say that it was only a taster (end of first paragraph) so presumably much more to share ahead or for us to read for ourselves when the book lands. I'm excited.

Goodbye alliance matrix special strikes and probably khand woses and far harad

Expected the fight value change and it’s a welcomed one! I actually would’ve liked to see the same thing happen to Strength tbh, no way things elite eleven warriors are needing the same 6 to wound as a low man lake-town peasant. I think it’s a shame the arnor book will effectively be out of date when the new addition drops pretty soon after it comes out but fair play to them for letting us know. I’m still on the fence about all of this until see everything infront of me profiles etc but I’m sure the MESBG team will make the right changes

I am really excited for these changes. I’m hoping with this my Minas Tirith won’t just be bring Boromir every time. Sucks that Rise of Angmar is going defunct quickly but at least they are telling us this before we all went out and bought it

Gulavhar , Shade , buhrdur in the bin ? Oh dear angmar

I’m actually disappointed after this release. I think it’s going to eliminate a lot of the more creative armies :(

I hope they keep piecing strike for troops that have axes aka my wildman😂 and I’m praying they don’t her ride of gully😅

I wonder if the every model comment refers to the points, and as they’ve not told us the points for the new models I’m thinking that’s the key change. I’d like to see magic changed, so the key mechanics of the game become models and not magic. Banners. I’d be happy if a banner only affected the army it belonged too. So minas tirith didn’t work on Rohan for example. But then make banners cheaper (going back to the points change).

So as someone who is brand new to MESBG, having just bought the Osgiliath starter box what should I even do? Did I just waste my money lol.

Its strange that they say werewolves lost their ability to transform. Werewolves in lotr are Wolves inhabited by evil spirits and never were able to transform. Think they will be 20-30p warrior models. Mayby "only" a move of 8"? Else : F4 S5 D5 A2 W2 C4.

I suspect GW got the rights to create all the same things that the BfME2 video games did as we have seen mostly everything line up between both to include Drakes, Dragons, Werewolves, various kinds of hero characters etc…

im hoping for a bit of a nerf on the hobbit armies since they are stronger then the lotr armies. azog and bolg just should not be as powerful as they are as example. i also do want a bit of a upgrade to unnamed heros in some way. maybe like if a unnamed hero like king of men or harad king theres a way to give a additional rule for 5-10 pts. just something to give more attraction to the unnamed guys.

I'm so in love with those Trolls. I'm not a MESBG player myself, as a LotR fan I just enjoy keeping an eye on it. But those trolls... I think I gotta get my hands on them. If nothing else then atleast as proxies in my Warhammer army.

I agree with Ali, I really dislike the werewolves models. They look like if gothmog's warg hit the gym, and focussed only on their arms.. All the other models look amazing though, especially those cave trolls!

I think they will make heroic challenge better. The new arnor hero has a special rule relating to heroic challenge (which everyone was saying at the time is a useless special rule), so GW clearly have it on their mind!

New starter box will be Last Alliance with new plastic elves, numenor, Gil-galad, Elendil and Isildur!

Make Gandalf worth the points! Give Legolas another attack!

Hill troll cunning, resistance to magic?

I knew i could count on you guys ! kept checking spotify last night listen at work dont usually comment on here but in this case had no choice but to find the video !!!!. So here is my thoughts 1st i recently visited whw loads models missing from exhibition mainly isengard and wraiths i thought i wonder if there making something new ? yesterday we got that confirmation 2nd why in bugmans overheard some shareholders discussing the new edition and when i asked they was like oh we are just speculating lol, So here goes i think improved fight value is needed profile reworks all exciting stuff i just hope they dont introduce unit coherency like in 40k with regards to the new movie where have you been so miranda otto ie (eowyn) is narrating its due near xmas sometime so i think we will get angmar 1st then a box set to coincide with the film now heres a thought it might be a stand alone game similar to when they did battle of five armies i think new books will be out next year either way extremely excited ps if you ever want to hear things hang out at bugmans randomly in the week shareholders have loose lips !!!!!!!

Okey, so hear me out. They know that Faramir is maybe around 10pts too expensive and wont be taken very often competitively. Unless they change the stats, they can recalibrate the pts values. Though i love the LLs, maybe they will remove LLs and just give the armyleader new LL-like rules and also only have them lead certain unit types? Boromir will probably not be able to lead rangers of Gondor, and Faramir probably wont be able to lead fountain court guards? Faramir could get some awesome cavalry bonus woth his unit, and maybe some ranger bonus too. Maybe there's some exception if you ally in some way, then you can take different unit types, but loose that unique bonus from you army leader?

This is crazy!!!

In the OG game, there were Heroic Actions. They were the 3 basics. Move, Fight and Shoot. That new edition with the mention "every profile will be reworked" makes me very nervous. The game is in a very good place right now...and we're talking about GW. They don't have the most pristine track records. I'm not averse to change. I've started playing the game near it's release and I will say it's better in its current state. I just have little faith in the company.

My most wanted changes. Book coming soz: 5. I know its only one profile but Blackshields seem stuck in no man's land. I'd like them to have a special rule that when shielding, they would have 3 dice in the duel roll instead of 2. They would still have their fight 2 so hopefully not OP. 4. Scenarios could do with some changes. I think there is a pretty good consensus in community about some things, like Maelstrom resulting in a ambush situation with opposing armies deploying face to face. 3. MESBG has amazingly good core mechanics in so many ways, but has one weakness for me, which is the core mechanics make it hard to represent what monsters are in a battle, as you guys have mentioned. One way would be to turn some of the ones that are currently warriors into independent heroes, so that they can have access to might/will/fate. So some carefully thought out special rules would be good. Maybe so that take place in the movement phase as that is the more interesting phase where more decisions are made e.g. allow monsters to knock a model out of the way when charging so it can reach another. 2. There is a thing that the more dice that are rolled the less randomness there is. If say 100 dice are rolled the average is taken it will almost certainly be around 3.5 due to the number of dice, but one dice could give a result of anywhere from 1-6. Considering this; sometimes there are rolls in game that have too much resting on one dice roll e.g. deployment rolls or dig up artefact rolls in some scenarios. This randomness could be reduced by getting people to roll even just 2 dice instead of 1. The original rules writers seemed to know this when devising courage tests, that have been unchanged since release. With two dice it also means the chance of things going real bad and getting the lowest score is only a 1/36 chance, instead of a 1/6 chance. Rolling two dice could be part of the game at various points when less randomness is wanted. 1. As others have said; magic rework. Currently lots of spell casters just transfix an Aragon type model each turn. That doesn't represent what happens in the films/books, there isn't much play in it and also it isn't very exciting. A test for a good spell could be; if you spam Aragon with it, can he still be Aragon and do Aragon things? Unchannelled ones could just be more for the tactical utility such as movement reduced to half for the turn or reduce strength for a enemy model who is in a key combat. Good side could boost the defence of a friend they see in a bad spot or give them a +1 on their duel roll results. Channelled spells could give the more powerful effects we have now, but would be restricted by might reserves. To make up for all that, maybe two spells a turn for big casters and one less powerful spell per turn for the smaller casters, such as the unnamed 1/3/1 shaman types that are a bit boring atm. +2 free will a turn for big casters +1 for small ones.

Fraecht - my thoughts was fray-ect

For too long has he been trash and unreliable. Too long has he been bullied to the bottom tables. Too long has he been the laughing stock of Mebsg. But never again, the Dark Lord will be all powerful and smite those who doubted his power. MAKE SAURON GREAT AGAIN 🙌🙌🙌!!!!!!!!!!

heroic challenge, is just very bad now, need a full change

I really want them to differentiate the three elven factions which are basically clones of each other - especially the High Elves (Noldor) from the other two which are at least both Silvan Elf dominated factions (although Loth is shaped/influenced by Noldorin & Sindarin culture from their Lady & Lord even more so than Thrandaddy's Sindar/Doriath influence). For example the High Elves/Noldor should be worse at archery and a bit less mobile on foot but stronger/hardier in combat (with the sword in particular) and should have better crafted equipment. High Elves shouldn't have "Woodland Creature" because the Noldor like plains & mountains and the Falathrim/Western Sindar like the sea. BASIC PROFILES (the most common warriors etc.) of each faction should be as unique as possible to better reflect their specific Middle Earth trope/tradition and the three Elven lists and their basic warrior profiles are a good example for this (a "High Elf" Noldo/Sinda warrior having the exact same profile with the exact same cost as a Silvan Elf is a travesty). I would really like a fleshed-out Numenor faction with the famed steelbows and the like. Such a barebones and low effort Numenor we have right now which is a huge barrier before recreating battles of the 2nd Age in particular. IN FACT: I want a little bit more unit variety for all factions and ESPECIALLY for extremely bare-bones ones like NumNum that deserve better. I WANT MORE LIST-BUILDING VARIETY above all else! I'd really like to see more equipment variety as well especially army-specific ones to flesh out and differentiate them better. For example: "Galadhrim Bow" made from Mallorn trees like the one gifted to Legolas, excerpt from the Fellowship: "The bow was longer and stouter than the bows of Mirkwood, and it was strung with a string of elf-hair" but both Loth and Thrandie Halls have "Elf Bow" (eats crayons: durrrr Elf Bow). Gameplay variety like static vs mobile shooting or long-ranged vs short-medium ranged can be created from distinctions like these making lists/factions more asymmetrically balanced from one another. I absolutely agree with you guys about the oppressiveness and limited reactivity of certain magical powers, the viability of centerpiece models and profiles that make more sense for the big heroes. Always hated that a First Age Noldo like Glorfie having such a pathetic profile - make some other elf character a "jack-of-all-trades" or "utility hero". I HATE HATE HATE (havin' a Gollum moment over here) the bullshit "shutdown magic" that makes any big hero absolutely unusable/invalidated when facing Paralyze/Transfix and the like without massive built-in defenses like Unbending Resolve or the RARE model that can cast Fortify Spirit. There needs to be more reactivity when it comes to this kind of magic and "3 Will points" on Legendary Heroes just doesn't cut it especially when this bullshit can be cast from such cheap models like Barrow-Wights. I hope the horrendously bad/unfair/luck-based scenarios like LOOMS/SEIZE/CAMP go the way of the Dodo.

Tolkien's philosophy was about the every day hero doing great acts and not really about big heroes. I don't think it would be reflective of the work to go heavy on big stompy heroes, but I can see the fight value opening up. Prowlers shouldn't be the same fight as elves.

More powerful heroes….be careful what you wish for. The “War of the Ring” rules had a solid wargaming base but some of the Hero abilities were stupidly over-powered. Make heroes too strong/dominant and no one will take troops anymore. To me, the LoTR books have great heroes but there are troops involved as well and I would hate to see the game lose the current balance it has.

"every model" suggests a core mechanic shift. my guess is fight value. increasing the max cap above ten so its easier to differentiate between profiles. cause right now there are models at equal fight that really shouldn't be. so current 3 becomes 3-4, current 4 becomes 5-6 etc.

I think the stats on the heroes from the supplement will definitely be different in the new edition. And I don't even think it's a red herring. The supplement is one thing, the new edition is another. And they'll be released at different times. Also Elliot holding his face wondering "what will the new box be!?" with a War of the Rohirrim logo on the screen. The answer is looking right at you my man.

War of the Rohirrim comes out in December so I’d bet this new edition is coming quick

Why wouldn't it be narrative for the witch KING to have a CROWN in the kingdom where he's a KING? Never understood that logic.

Obviously glad for the amount of news we’re getting, shows GW support for the game but I’m a tiny bit worried they’ll mess it up 😂 Just hope we don’t start to go down the 40K route with constant Edition changes/ iffy balancing where armies/characters are completely ruined from one to another. Hope they don’t hurt my poor elves 😂

War of the Rohirim is an animated (anime style) movie coming out.

Change in some of the herouc actions. Rework Challenge for example. Also Heroic Hold anyone? I think the stats in the teasers are a red herring and they are not the actual stats. They didnt want to give anything away about this new edition.

You guys could have a busy few weeks and months! Do like an initial airing of views and thoughts - that immediate take as it were. Well done for pulling off two emergency podcasts this afternoon.

A change to a profile could be as simple as a change in points

What if hill troll intelligence allows the hill trolls to perform their combat first in the fight phase? That way they can get the most out of their barges and hurls.

Love the end when the talk moves to this maybe being the last emergency podcast for a while…

Referenced that the dark lord had werewolves in his service, if sauron doesnt have werewolves in barad dur in the new edition i will be very sad since he is the lord of werewolves

Referenced that the dark lord had werewolves in his service, if sauron doesnt have werewolves in barad dur in the new edition i will be very sad since he is the lord of werewolves