NEW EDITION!?? Emergency Podcast 7 | Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game | MESBG

[@Lordofnothing22]

I wonder if the every model comment refers to the points, and as they’ve not told us the points for the new models I’m thinking that’s the key change. I’d like to see magic changed, so the key mechanics of the game become models and not magic. Banners. I’d be happy if a banner only affected the army it belonged too. So minas tirith didn’t work on Rohan for example. But then make banners cheaper (going back to the points change).

[@GollumGamers]

Yeah a points cost is something in every profile, but so is something like fight value! So there's a couple directions they could go - and yes something has to be done with banners like Sully's lol

[@darchensol5112]

"every model" suggests a core mechanic shift. my guess is fight value. increasing the max cap above ten so its easier to differentiate between profiles. cause right now there are models at equal fight that really shouldn't be. so current 3 becomes 3-4, current 4 becomes 5-6 etc.

[@KharnTheBtrayer]

My number one hope for the new edition is they make the crappy heroic actions better like challenge and channeling. Since magic is already good maybe make base spells a bit worse but then make channels better.

[@Arkanakaz]

My most wanted changes. Book coming soz: 5. I know its only one profile but Blackshields seem stuck in no man's land. I'd like them to have a special rule that when shielding, they would have 3 dice in the duel roll instead of 2. They would still have their fight 2 so hopefully not OP. 4. Scenarios could do with some changes. I think there is a pretty good consensus in community about some things, like Maelstrom resulting in a ambush situation with opposing armies deploying face to face. 3. MESBG has amazingly good core mechanics in so many ways, but has one weakness for me, which is the core mechanics make it hard to represent what monsters are in a battle, as you guys have mentioned. One way would be to turn some of the ones that are currently warriors into independent heroes, so that they can have access to might/will/fate. So some carefully thought out special rules would be good. Maybe so that take place in the movement phase as that is the more interesting phase where more decisions are made e.g. allow monsters to knock a model out of the way when charging so it can reach another. 2. There is a thing that the more dice that are rolled the less randomness there is. If say 100 dice are rolled the average is taken it will almost certainly be around 3.5 due to the number of dice, but one dice could give a result of anywhere from 1-6. Considering this; sometimes there are rolls in game that have too much resting on one dice roll e.g. deployment rolls or dig up artefact rolls in some scenarios. This randomness could be reduced by getting people to roll even just 2 dice instead of 1. The original rules writers seemed to know this when devising courage tests, that have been unchanged since release. With two dice it also means the chance of things going real bad and getting the lowest score is only a 1/36 chance, instead of a 1/6 chance. Rolling two dice could be part of the game at various points when less randomness is wanted. 1. As others have said; magic rework. Currently lots of spell casters just transfix an Aragon type model each turn. That doesn't represent what happens in the films/books, there isn't much play in it and also it isn't very exciting. A test for a good spell could be; if you spam Aragon with it, can he still be Aragon and do Aragon things? Unchannelled ones could just be more for the tactical utility such as movement reduced to half for the turn or reduce strength for a enemy model who is in a key combat. Good side could boost the defence of a friend they see in a bad spot or give them a +1 on their duel roll results. Channelled spells could give the more powerful effects we have now, but would be restricted by might reserves. To make up for all that, maybe two spells a turn for big casters and one less powerful spell per turn for the smaller casters, such as the unnamed 1/3/1 shaman types that are a bit boring atm. +2 free will a turn for big casters +1 for small ones.

[@GollumGamers]

You might have just won the biggest comment on our channel so far award good sir! 😁 I'd reallyyyyy love new scenarios - it's seriously about time! I like the dice change idea, as things like Heroic Strike etc can win or lose you a game - and it's just one roll of the dice! And yes perhaps there's a world where magic takes more of a buffing role, rather than such an offensive role like it has at the moment

[@Arkanakaz]

​@@GollumGamers You guys have given a nice review of the scenarios and profiles in your videos - and the game as a whole. I hope the people who write the rules are fans of the podcast; have a poster of each of you in their bedrooms, and listen to everthing you say 😁. Thanks for the vids as always 👍

[@BrickWann]

I think the stats on the heroes from the supplement will definitely be different in the new edition. And I don't even think it's a red herring. The supplement is one thing, the new edition is another. And they'll be released at different times. Also Elliot holding his face wondering "what will the new box be!?" with a War of the Rohirrim logo on the screen. The answer is looking right at you my man.

[@GollumGamers]

I mean I guess that could be the box set haha - but I'm thinking not personally

[@xenosophont]

I really want them to differentiate the three elven factions which are basically clones of each other - especially the High Elves (Noldor) from the other two which are at least both Silvan Elf dominated factions (although Loth is shaped/influenced by Noldorin & Sindarin culture from their Lady & Lord even more so than Thrandaddy's Sindar/Doriath influence). For example the High Elves/Noldor should be worse at archery and a bit less mobile on foot but stronger/hardier in combat (with the sword in particular) and should have better crafted equipment. High Elves shouldn't have "Woodland Creature" because the Noldor like plains & mountains and the Falathrim/Western Sindar like the sea. BASIC PROFILES (the most common warriors etc.) of each faction should be as unique as possible to better reflect their specific Middle Earth trope/tradition and the three Elven lists and their basic warrior profiles are a good example for this (a "High Elf" Noldo/Sinda warrior having the exact same profile with the exact same cost as a Silvan Elf is a travesty). I would really like a fleshed-out Numenor faction with the famed steelbows and the like. Such a barebones and low effort Numenor we have right now which is a huge barrier before recreating battles of the 2nd Age in particular. IN FACT: I want a little bit more unit variety for all factions and ESPECIALLY for extremely bare-bones ones like NumNum that deserve better. I WANT MORE LIST-BUILDING VARIETY above all else! I'd really like to see more equipment variety as well especially army-specific ones to flesh out and differentiate them better. For example: "Galadhrim Bow" made from Mallorn trees like the one gifted to Legolas, excerpt from the Fellowship: "The bow was longer and stouter than the bows of Mirkwood, and it was strung with a string of elf-hair" but both Loth and Thrandie Halls have "Elf Bow" (eats crayons: durrrr Elf Bow). Gameplay variety like static vs mobile shooting or long-ranged vs short-medium ranged can be created from distinctions like these making lists/factions more asymmetrically balanced from one another. I absolutely agree with you guys about the oppressiveness and limited reactivity of certain magical powers, the viability of centerpiece models and profiles that make more sense for the big heroes. Always hated that a First Age Noldo like Glorfie having such a pathetic profile - make some other elf character a "jack-of-all-trades" or "utility hero". I HATE HATE HATE (havin' a Gollum moment over here) the bullshit "shutdown magic" that makes any big hero absolutely unusable/invalidated when facing Paralyze/Transfix and the like without massive built-in defenses like Unbending Resolve or the RARE model that can cast Fortify Spirit. There needs to be more reactivity when it comes to this kind of magic and "3 Will points" on Legendary Heroes just doesn't cut it especially when this bullshit can be cast from such cheap models like Barrow-Wights. I hope the horrendously bad/unfair/luck-based scenarios like LOOMS/SEIZE/CAMP go the way of the Dodo.

[@GollumGamers]

On the Elf and Numenor points, this supplement with this amount of new profiles etc COULD and in my view SHOULD have been in my view the Last Alliance supplement the community has long awaited - but it was not to be 😢 And yeah someone like Gil Galad for example, being stopped in his tracks by some Goblin Shaman who can barely even cast a spell - is just a bit naff to be honest!

[@xenosophont]

@@GollumGamers I was devastated to see the supp being Angmar & Arnor instead of the most awesome and glorious theatre of war of the 2nd Age. But anyways, just like someone from your DEATH PANEL has noted - they are no longer shackled by supplements or legions or errata or whatever to add/fix stuff like this because it's a new edition baby! I hope they make the most out of it and don't miss the chance to enrich and improve stuff that needs it BAD (like NumNum). New ed prob also means that they now have the mandate/permission to churn out stuff more rapidly and in bigger scope.

[@princev8283]

@@GollumGamers yes give me back my big hero gil galad to be used more competitively , its annoying to have big heroes be forced out because they have 3 will , and be forced to use elendil or glorfindel…

[@GollumGamers]

@@princev8283 Agreed!

[@JonHalls]

Tolkien's philosophy was about the every day hero doing great acts and not really about big heroes. I don't think it would be reflective of the work to go heavy on big stompy heroes, but I can see the fight value opening up. Prowlers shouldn't be the same fight as elves.

[@GollumGamers]

Hard to argue with that!

[@michaelhaskell2155]

You guys could have a busy few weeks and months! Do like an initial airing of views and thoughts - that immediate take as it were. Well done for pulling off two emergency podcasts this afternoon.

[@GollumGamers]

I hope we do! Thanks a lot Michael - appreciate the support 🥰

[@Four_Farthings_Gaming]

New starter box will be Last Alliance with new plastic elves, numenor, Gil-galad, Elendil and Isildur!

[@GollumGamers]

And what a miracle that would be 😁😂

[@iangill5353]

More powerful heroes….be careful what you wish for. The “War of the Ring” rules had a solid wargaming base but some of the Hero abilities were stupidly over-powered. Make heroes too strong/dominant and no one will take troops anymore. To me, the LoTR books have great heroes but there are troops involved as well and I would hate to see the game lose the current balance it has.

[@GollumGamers]

Agreed!

[@masterballuk6780]

I knew i could count on you guys ! kept checking spotify last night listen at work dont usually comment on here but in this case had no choice but to find the video !!!!. So here is my thoughts 1st i recently visited whw loads models missing from exhibition mainly isengard and wraiths i thought i wonder if there making something new ? yesterday we got that confirmation 2nd why in bugmans overheard some shareholders discussing the new edition and when i asked they was like oh we are just speculating lol, So here goes i think improved fight value is needed profile reworks all exciting stuff i just hope they dont introduce unit coherency like in 40k with regards to the new movie where have you been so miranda otto ie (eowyn) is narrating its due near xmas sometime so i think we will get angmar 1st then a box set to coincide with the film now heres a thought it might be a stand alone game similar to when they did battle of five armies i think new books will be out next year either way extremely excited ps if you ever want to hear things hang out at bugmans randomly in the week shareholders have loose lips !!!!!!!

[@GollumGamers]

Haha well thanks for leaving a comment mate 😁 I reckon we're getting at least the new supplement or edition before Christmas probably - maybe even both! We do love a bar so we'll have to try Bugman's then I think 😂

[@ro11ingthunder8official3]

So as someone who is brand new to MESBG, having just bought the Osgiliath starter box what should I even do? Did I just waste my money lol.

[@GollumGamers]

So yes the rulebook in the set will be obsolete sometime within the next six months I'd say - but you'll definitely still be able to use all the models you've just got so definitely not a waste at all!

[@Splentys]

I think they will make heroic challenge better. The new arnor hero has a special rule relating to heroic challenge (which everyone was saying at the time is a useless special rule), so GW clearly have it on their mind!

[@GollumGamers]

Imo I wish they'd just scrap it as it's always just been useless and pointless - unless they have a change coming that would actually make it playable in some situations!

[@braveryisavirtue]

Change in some of the herouc actions. Rework Challenge for example. Also Heroic Hold anyone? I think the stats in the teasers are a red herring and they are not the actual stats. They didnt want to give anything away about this new edition.

[@GollumGamers]

Heroic Hold is DEFINITELY making it into the new edition 😁

[@ReganSmash83]

War of the Rohirrim comes out in December so I’d bet this new edition is coming quick

[@GollumGamers]

Yep as it's clearly tying in somehow!

[@AleInBywater]

Okey, so hear me out. They know that Faramir is maybe around 10pts too expensive and wont be taken very often competitively. Unless they change the stats, they can recalibrate the pts values. Though i love the LLs, maybe they will remove LLs and just give the armyleader new LL-like rules and also only have them lead certain unit types? Boromir will probably not be able to lead rangers of Gondor, and Faramir probably wont be able to lead fountain court guards? Faramir could get some awesome cavalry bonus woth his unit, and maybe some ranger bonus too. Maybe there's some exception if you ally in some way, then you can take different unit types, but loose that unique bonus from you army leader?

[@GollumGamers]

If they were to make all the legions obsolete that would feel very odd, but if they end up changing core things about how profiles work etc and the legions wouldn't function properly anymore - then they definitely might! And yeah I like the idea - if they're trying to make things more representative of the films, them maybe characters like Faramir for example would only be able to lead Rangers etc!

[@AleInBywater]

@@GollumGamers Yeah, that's what I thought too. If so, all the previous LLs from the supplement books become obsolete. My best guess, but wee'll have to wait and see. Would be nice if the kept the LLs though, and just altered profiles that need change to become more competitive. However, they did say "all profiles", so yeah...

[@lukesenyshyn4886]

This is crazy!!!

[@GollumGamers]

What a time to be a SBG fan! 😁

[@yesmilord2350]

War of the Rohirim is an animated (anime style) movie coming out.

[@Four_Farthings_Gaming]

Make Gandalf worth the points! Give Legolas another attack!

[@GollumGamers]

Agreed on Gandalf, my favourite character in the films and I've literally never used him in game! As for Leggy, his thing is to be the bow guy, he can't also be the combat guy! 😁

[@Four_Farthings_Gaming]

@@GollumGamers he’s the only character in the game with 2 fighting weapons but also 2 attacks. A hunter orc captain has more attacks than him!

[@sebastiencarrieres8825]

In the OG game, there were Heroic Actions. They were the 3 basics. Move, Fight and Shoot. That new edition with the mention "every profile will be reworked" makes me very nervous. The game is in a very good place right now...and we're talking about GW. They don't have the most pristine track records. I'm not averse to change. I've started playing the game near it's release and I will say it's better in its current state. I just have little faith in the company.

[@GollumGamers]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out! I have high hopes 😊

[@markobrien2481]

Jay Clare has done good work before, the rules will be fine

[@TheBronf]

im hoping for a bit of a nerf on the hobbit armies since they are stronger then the lotr armies. azog and bolg just should not be as powerful as they are as example. i also do want a bit of a upgrade to unnamed heros in some way. maybe like if a unnamed hero like king of men or harad king theres a way to give a additional rule for 5-10 pts. just something to give more attraction to the unnamed guys.

[@GollumGamers]

Yeah surely they can't be as good going into the next edition - but that would have to surely mean a buff for the rest of the army in some way! As Azog's Legion as a stand alone list is already not very competitive - they rely so much on those heroes! And yeah that's a great idea about unnamed heroes - would be great to see them used more!

[@Enigmatus23]

A change to a profile could be as simple as a change in points

[@GollumGamers]

I'd reckon that saying every profile will be reworked, means there might be something a little more to it than that!

[@joshcoles1255]

Obviously glad for the amount of news we’re getting, shows GW support for the game but I’m a tiny bit worried they’ll mess it up 😂 Just hope we don’t start to go down the 40K route with constant Edition changes/ iffy balancing where armies/characters are completely ruined from one to another. Hope they don’t hurt my poor elves 😂

[@GollumGamers]

Haha I doubt that's the road we'll be going down - a new edition after six years of the current one feels right I think!

[@joshcoles1255]

@@GollumGamers Yeah I’m sure the Middle Earth team won’t do anything stupid they’ve over time built that trust they’ll do what’s right for the game can’t wait to see what happens with the profiles!

[@charlessims7506]

heroic challenge, is just very bad now, need a full change

[@GollumGamers]

Yeah it needs to go imo!