I think people have forgotten that ultra running was b.u.i.l.t. on the back of the Dirt Bag Culture ??

Free photos is a really nice thing. I did a really small race last year, 37k - all free photos and all super good. It's something that maybe i don't really seek out when registering, but it's a really great surprise when it happens Pricing of aUTMB world series events compared to "regular" trail races, cost more but are way more organized as far as aid stations go, and n something like a 100k or 100 mile run i find this to be very cool and will gladly spend more, vs a local trail race that has random cakes etc at aid stations. That being said for shorter races I prefer local races with more caracter!

Yeah, another thing I just wanted to add you know our club runs in January every year a fat ass race completely free 50 K and with a 25K option a loop course and I’m pretty sure just about every large running club that deals with ulcers and stuff has a race like that that’s completely free that you can just go out and run now yeah it’s not gonna be 100 mile or anything probably longer than 50 K but it’s a good way to get out. Meet a bunch of people have a lot of fun and Sure no swag but ours we have a nice aid station for each loop and most of them will let stranger that’s not in the club come out anyways, and if they do, they might charge it the $10 you know for a club membership and really that’s it more or less if you want something cheaper you gotta find the places that do things cheap cheaper and then besides that you do some light work to see if there’s any bad asses there or whatever they’re called in different parts of the country for a free racesand then maybe every once in a while like I said, get on an airplane and go splurge yourself a big running vacation great video

Now in South Carolina here we have a place called the upstate ultras and those are all really economically pleasing races. You might not get the fancy fancy T-shirts and you might not get the fancy fancy belt buckles you know I’m doing 100 mile or end of the year as $95 And I would rather do that personally and then every once in a while when I can afford it do a big vacation ultra like my dream is Tahoe rim Trail from getting on an airplane I’m flying. I’m spending a week somewhere and and that’s my opinion but I know the other people wanna have this to be her solo incomeand so I guess their races have to be more money or they have to run a tunnel of races I don’t know.

On 'swagbag' stuff - I really dislike 'chintzy sh*t'. Stop it! Planet trees or donate some money to a local charity. Hey guys. I'll run 800m in the Summer. In the U.K. the 'regional meets' are £7/$9 per race. Run that into £ per/mile or £ per/time. No pize at the end other lung burn...and a glorious afterglow in the car home. Great chat guys - BIG love from the U.K.

Mux thanks

Being in Arizona, it almost feels like Araviapa is becoming a monopoly in the trail world. I don't hate them but it would also be nice to have other event options that don't have all of the fluff. I'm glad you compared it to concerts. It's almost like your local punk band playing at the VFW hall vs. Metallica at Wimbley. Also, when you mentioned running a marathon under someone else's name, it made me curious. As Brian was talking about UltraSignup stats, I wonder if there are people that register for races but pay someone else to run it so their stats look better. That'd be hilarious but equally cruel. I am one of those back-of-the-pack people sitting at 55% and I do think it's BS to have that on there. I don't care about how I stack up to the field. I know I'm slow, I don't need to be reminded haha. I'm just out there having fun. Great conversation as usual 👍🏼

I agree it doesn't make sense that so many people hate on UTMB but have no problem with Aravaipa as they go around swallowing up races all over the country and jacking up prices. Aravaipa should get a good dose of criticism. Sure, they charge those prices because they can and the races still fill up. I have no doubt that they could charge much more. But do we want ultra trail racing to be come even more of a niche sport where only the rich can afford to do it? Also, while comparing prices on cost per mile is decent, I think a better metric is cost per (cut off) time, and also factor in how many aid stations (difficulty of race setup, volunteers needed, etc) there are. A 30 hour race is not as costly to put on as a 48 hour race. Both of those are also a knock on Javelina as it's a 30 hour looped course with only a handful of aid stations. They put a lot into their aid stations I know, but that doesn't completely offset the difference between that and a point to point course with 15 aid stations. I don't think the answer is that UTMB should charge more.

Love this insight. I'll repeat "Get comfortable with the uncomfortable." But I'll do that on a 10KM nevermind at MILE 80 on a back to back!

I like races like Arkansas Traveller 100 at $280 with a field of about 200 runners. They have more volunteers than racers! Aravaipa charges double that while allowing 4-5 times the amount of runners…and they want you pay to park, camp, etc. It’s absolutely insane.

One more thought. Brian, if you think our sport needs more E entertainment, how about posting a picture on STRAVA every now and then and titling your workouts something other than “Afternoon Run.”

I used to listen to running podcasts pre-covid. They were entertaining, educational, and helped me feel like I was participating in a fun community. Present day, I don’t even have a podcast app on my phone anymore. I’m here today because some guys from my running club shared about this in a group chat. I’m glad I listened, and I feel inclined to return. Cheers!

You should probably compare UTMB with other European races since pricing is still fairly sane there. 5K's are often $40 where I live, which is why I've never paid to run anything shorter than a marathon. Javalina seems especially high considering there's so many runners and it's a looped course. I understand prices being high when you have to truck supplies out to 20 aid stations up in the mountains and you're spreading the cost over 100 people, but Javalina has none of that.

Races are crazy expensive in the states. I signed up for a 6 hour race in Estonia for 25 EUR this year. 50k's in SoCal are $100 minimum

What about Madmoose (moab)? Their canyonlands half marathon is $177 ($13/mile) and even more egregious is their 5 mile at $136 ($27/mile)

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone complain the the entry fees for UTMB itself are too expensive. I think the complaint is generally that they force you to travel at least one other time during the year to another one of their races to get "stones" to earn the right to enter the lottery.

As someone who lives in Arizona, I’m sick of all the Aravaipa praise. I love them too, they are doing great things for trail running, but MAN do they over price their races. I can’t believe that a looped 100 mile course is significantly more expensive than a point to point 100. Yes, they do a lot of extra things that probably make it cost more like the live streams. But the mid to back of the packers are then paying for a live stream that is 90% focused on the front of the packers who get sponsored entries. I hope the trail gods don’t smite me for this, but it’s how I feel. I’ve done multiple Aravaipa races, including Cocodona, mogollon monster, black canyon, etc. I’m always unimpressed by the swag they give. I’m not someone who cares about swag, but for the price I’m paying it might as well be good! For example when I did black canyon last year, the shirt had a tiny little windmill on the front that said black canyon 100k, with HUGE sponsor letterings on the back. Cocodona I paid a months worth of rent to get a shirt and some stickers and a pair of darn tough socks. I had to PAY for the hat for any Aravaipa race. Take Superior 100 for example. I you get a super badass hoodie, a hat, shirt, etc, included in a cheaper registration fee for a point to point race. Anyways, rant over 😂

Even with the high costs I was 0/4 on my lotteries

Another thought I had in correlation/comparison to European races vs US races is lift tickets in Europe vs US. Skiing is US is triple+ Europe. I have heard some of these differences are US insurance requirements vs Europe. Not sure if that is true but need to take in consideration things like that. Also is there a difference in permitting costs?

Would have been a lot smoother / entertaining if you guys weren't figuring out the prices on the fly. I think a lot of the races are cheaper the farther out you register, should compare the early (or late) registration to have an apples to apples comparison. There is also a price to put on certain events that is going to vary from race to race. Ultrasignup provides benefits to the race director / hosts as well as runners. Bib transfer would be a nightmare (scalpers / profiteering on popular events)and push costs way up, just like event pricing currently.

'Price per mile', love it. Could have also done 'price per hour' based on cutoff times. That said, per hour is less personal unless you expecting to be chasing cutoffs wherever you race. However, hours would make sense to justify the expenses from a RD's perspective. As a spreadsheet guy, I have a table of races (popular or ones ive completed) with distance, elevation gain, gain/mile, course record, cr pace, etc. but hadn't thought about adding cost metrics.

Satisfy’s moth tech is the product of the trend that was going on at the time with Yeezy changing the landscape of fashion bringing metal band shirts back into the mainstream and collabing with Jerry Lorenzo. Did we forget those early Fear of God pieces that Jerry released where he upcycled metal band shirts and added Fear of God to them? It’s exactly what Satisfy copied with its earlier shirts and continues to adopt to this day. Brice was in the fashion industry, so it’s hard not to make the connection with the trend. It’s not a revolutionary idea on both accounts, but I would say it was strongly adopted by what was happening in fashion at the time.

Great subject when I look at the average race for me being just a working guy working two jobs most times baby. It’s kinda ridiculous. I mean the average price of the average hundred mile probably out there. I’m a low end. It’s probably 360. Most people wanna do two nights in a hotel One before one after at about 120 you know night comes to a lot of money that I know a race company out of South Carolina they just do local races mostly in just in South Carolina and they might have the world not have the world the greatest racist, most challenging and everything else but say you want to knock out 100 they got 100. I’m doing in September. That’s $95. OK that might be a looped course is not as exciting but they got some good races and you can actually afford to go pretty average person. I was planning on doing pinto in a couple others this year 25 but I looked over my budget Ain’t gonna happen cause I’m gonna spend the big money. I wanna do something something like hellbender North Carolina Tahoe rim Trail is always been a future race of mine so I’m gonna spend real money. I’m gonna spend real money and do something on a plane in the whole bit, but things are getting out of hand I think for your average person

I chimed in some time ago about my dollars are better spent on a multiday race where I have some care and support and a more epic adventure. If you have to train, travel and pay the premiums it's just a better return.

Amazing film about an amazing accomplishment. I am very early in my trail running activities, and this story is very motivating. Thank you for sharing your story. John (in B.C)

your spot on! i kept seeing their instagram posts and thought "who gives a shit its holes in a T-shirt"

Really respect your’s and Josh’s perspectives. I think they provide the off center views that will ultimately inspire more people to participate in the discussion and get involved in the community of trail running. You covered a ton and I think there’s so much to unpack from what you said initially. Not sure I agree with TROY missing the mark, but agree that the participation and voting pool seems skewed towards the elites congratulating the elites. I’d like to see you guys continue to talk more about the “Entertainment” aspect you brought up. Just like any form of athletic entertainment, there’s segments that every individual identifies with depending on their level of interest and involvement in the particular sport. In other words, I believe everyone identifies or gravitates towards what interests them (I.e. some folks love Freetrail because of DBo’s analysis and want to be in at that level). I listen to Freetrail to soak up the knowledge from DBo and Corrine and find myself learning more that way. I also listen to you guys because I am a middle/back of the pack caliber athlete in my 40’s that relates to your guy’s perspectives on the struggles of a non-elite trail runner. However, I appreciate the elite environment and garner inspiration from those podcasts and conversations. I don’t think it takes away or turn’s folks off from the joining the community, I think it just requires a certain level of knowledge and understanding to participate at that level of discussion that DBo and Corrine communicate at. I think there’s some responsibility on the individual to get involved to a level to relate to the level of DBo or Corrine. Having said all of this, I think you, Josh, Matt Johnson, A.Glaze, Pelletier offer unique and approachable entertainment that is definitely growing involvement of the other 95%. I don’t think the elite stories should be shunned as it has its place as part of the trail running community growth as much as the non-elite, “Entertainment” based you’re representing. I hope you and Josh stay true to your statements about providing entertainment focused on the non-elite community (not necessarily just the stories of the elites). I 100% agree that shedding more light on the incredible stories of the middle/back of the packer’s is vital to build our community. Can’t wait for you to further expand on this initial discussion and work to shed light on us in the DFL category. Been following Borderlands since Day 1 and stoked you guys are helping build the community!

I don't know why Tara Dower was not mentioned. She did more than the AT.

I thought troy was weak. But, I don't really care that much about the international scene.

Break that 4th wall, hey?! Human story is the magic sauce. The Ketchup AND the Mayo.

There is so much truth to what was discussed around 8/9 minutes. In my last long timed looped race, I told people my goal was 60 miles. I had told my husband, my parents, a good friend, and even a couple of coworkers. I was ready to quit around mile 45/50. I dragged my feet for the last 10 miles driven by the mantra, “I told people I was going to do this, so I am going to do this.” For me, living up to my word was enough of a motivator, even though the last 10 miles were excruciating and not fun.

This is basically the struggle of all awards. The Oscars give out awards to movies most people have never heard of. Only the deepest into the world have the ability to have the knowledge.

Nike brought a lot of innovation in the running shoes industries. I think many of today's brands surf on the ideas and developments brought by Nike in the past. As with any company that becomes immensely important (and big) in a field, mistakes multiply, often due to the sheer number of people involved in the business. It's certainly a lot easier to keep your corporate values in check when you're a small company like Norda or Satisfy, to name but a few. It's often tempting to reject the big companies and embrace the small ones, as a fringe manifesto and a way of announcing yourself as a rebel. Perhaps just another layer in the construction of our social persona. I absolutely don't endorse Nike controversies, it's horrible on so many levels. I do believe, however, that their contribution to the trail could have positive consequences in the development of tech. And don't forget that Batiste Chassagne came 2nd in the UTMB, if I'm not mistaken. Their athletes are excellent and maybe will drive innovation.

There’s this guy out there just amazes me he’s on KZbin. He’s got his own channel. He’s growing Simon. His name is his for the last three years. He’s done 100 mile or at least every month I think last year he did Fuji Kota Donna 250 and another race like in three weeks you pull those three out. It’s just like he’s not the fastest finisher but he does a few sub 24 and stuff he’s a real good runner, but he just can endure and push in until he finishes. It’s amazing how many races he’s done I don’t even know

Satisfy's trail running cap still has a premium spot on my head. And their Archive Sale still offers quality gear at a reasonable price. Mentioning the salt lake brings back memories of this story I created during the pandemic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nH20lIB5erykpbcsi=uDwN9vqgn4BVFrDc

They don't dominate any running so why would they dominate trail running? They only have good race shoes, their daily trainers are trash.

First time watching. Women’s race coverage thoughts is a bad take! Ultras are SO LONG. There’s plenty of time to cover everyone to the max. If two things actually conflict chronologically? Just go to a replay. And, by saying you’re gender neutral, that is itself a position in favor of the status quo. Makes me really question how backwards your politics are in general.

Nike running shoes are amazing. I’ve had Wildhorses, Pegs, and the Zegama 2 and they are all great. The Zegama 2 is especially great, it’s just as good or better than any shoe I’ve had from any other brand. I get why it might seem cool to pile on Nike but they objectively make good shoes that also are very stylish. No other brand competes with them in terms of aesthetic

I agree with previous posts, Nike sucks and is a fashion brand. I think in 20 years of trail running I bought one pair and they fell apart. I don’t take them seriously at all, it’s an issue urban brand now, get altrs, Hoka, etc..

I disagree with the take, Nike has a really solid team, putting up some really nice races. Tyler Green, Rachel Drake, Nienke Brinkman, Drew Holman, Bailey Kowalcykze. And I wouldn’t be surprised if 2025 a big name gets signed. We also pretend that everyone other brand has like 20 rock stars, taking home 1st every race. Also Zegama and Ultrafly are two of my favorites.

Actually used to really like Nike Trail years ago, when it seemed like this undercover offshoot doing what they wanted, the Winnebago crew, with limited releases through SanFran Run co. I used to load up on the ltd release and rocked the Kiger 4 and Original Peg Trail. But couple years ago, corporate Nike took notice and brought it into the overall fold, mass production, it’s just not cool anymore. However, they still know how to style cool trail shoes, some of the Peg and Zegema are pretty slick. But with some many other options, be tough for me to return to Nike.

Loved this episode. Huge props to Brian for dishing out on Nike and bad history especially to women. I won't even buy my favorite team's baseball jersey because of the Nike logo. I didn't understand the whole women's shirt movement. As a woman myself, I'm always for supporting women in our sport and highlighting more of the pack but this felt heavily influencer-based which makes me cringe. To each their own! I'm from AZ and will be very biased in saying we have the best trails! Running past saguaros never gets old. Thanks guys!

How can you be indifferent to Killian running in any big race? When he competes, something will happen.

Nike is no longer a running brand. Nike is a fashion brand.

AUDIO EPO.

Artistry and running curated by those who run for those who run

Intention. Spending our time intentionally. Slowing down. We see much more when we do. Like the Wind lives right there...and It's a place we love to stay. Like an easy run. Like a long run. Like the recovery hours. It's food. Nourishment. Thanks for sharing.

100% - 'The race isn't for the fast but to those that keep on running.'

Dope to hear Simon on the pod with you. Simon and Julie are doing 🤌work in this industry. ❤

majority of the people wearing satisfy are cornballs, but the people at the helm seem clever and do put out some nice designs.