Oooh do you only use cancel judge with tier 2 bonus?

@@ffnnnb3905 cancel judge is for tier 2 4set bonus yeah That being said you can still do a cancel judge after twisting into martyrdom it's just simply not necessary you can just wait for command to expire first I'm not sure why the seal would disappear after the swing, are you twisting too early? But yeah check the timestamps that match what tier you have for how to use judgement

@@metiru3430 it's part of the swing timer, linked in the description. It's a weakaura.

@ ty mate 🫡

@@Lfoeköeliifkkkkkdkfjfjskkf no you can't macro seal and judgement together, unfortunately, because you want your judgement to go after the auto attack / twist, not before. If you do this, you would be unable to use stopattack on your judgement, which is basically free DPS, even though it would properly judge while both seals are active. It seems you also realize that you wouldn't be able to use this with cancel judge either, as it would cancel SoC before the twist even happens. It could also cause issues if you pressed the macro before your gcd was ready, such as when spell queueing your seal twist like you should be doing (pressing ability at the very end of a gcd so they queue up to instantly go off), it would judge before your seal, if it's ready, since judge is off the gcd, but your seal has to wait for it. Also when your attack speed is near 3.0 such as during raid with might of stormwind, your CD for Judgement won't be ready during your seal, as the previous cancel judge would line your CD up slightly after the auto attack / twist where it should be.

@ thx alot 👌

@@johnmccracken5465 always glad to have another twister in the world. It's really pretty simple! Sadly seal stacking is going to fall off hard in AQ, but it'll be back in Tier 3. If you have any questions just let me know n

@@gamechanger6436 I'll make no guarantees, but I will certainly be doing a wowhead guide - the video might happen, might not - depends how much free time I get.

@@surveillant Cool! Thank you very much for your effort!

@@roccox2xx99 not really, when you consider righteous vengeance

@@JarmamStuff it's just a simple weakaura I made myself. Make a new icon weakaura, set trigger to horn (425600 spellid I think), change display to %p for progress, then go to conditions and make it glow when duration is less than 6 seconds or not active, and desaturate when not active. Then I make it load in combat only.

@@surveillant Much appreciated

Update: Got 4 Judgement pieces and updated all my macros as suggested. Finally topped my 1st damage meter on Lord Kazzak just now. Without this vid I likely would never have given it a shot - you have my thanks

Core Forged is what we call seal stacking, not seal twisting, because it plays fundamentally completely different, and you don't actually "twist" your seal right before an auto-attack. Your seals just become passive buffs again, that you keep maintained at all times (or rather, at least for every single auto - one seal can drop for a short time, as long as its back up for next auto) Naturally you would also want to double judge when you're able to, ideally with enough time to refresh both seals before the next melee swing if needed. Other than keeping your 2 seals active for every melee, and "double judging'" whenever you can followed by refreshing both seals, you simply cast your spells following the priority: CS > DS > Exorcism > Consecrate (single target) DS >=< Cons > CS > Exorcism (AoE / cleave) [Cons above DS for big AoE pulls, DS above Cons for "cleave" pulls of 5 or less enemies] You can find the entire rotation explained in detail in the same Wowhead Rotation Guide that is listed in the description - just go to the section for "Seal Stacking", which is what we call it now, using the 6-set Core Forged bonus and 6-second twisting window.

Haha thanks. If you want the mp3 file for that "DJ Drop", I can give you the file on discord - name Surveillant, just message me (can find me in Light Club discord). I wish more people did cool things with them like making weakauras and stuff. I have a few of them: "Damn son, now that's a big twist" (in the style of rap music "Damn son, now where'd ya find this?") "SICK TWIST" (in the style of Quake sound effect) "This show has been brought to you by Light Club, where monkeys go to church."

Seal Twisting 100% and a slow weapon (we want slow weapons, as close to 3.5 base speed as possible without going under, with 4pc T2 draconic). It's not as popular as it's more challenging, but it is now dominating all the major parsing categories. It's 8% better on the sim, but varies in-game. It looks like it's going to be the meta in AQ as well. I also think it's by FAR the most fun to play. Many Paladins went Core Forged 6pc as they basically already knew the rotation from Molten Core and it is much easier, but can still perform really well, just not as well as seal twisting can. It was dominating early on this phase, but has been surpassed by the smaller population of seal twisters. It was the go-to spec for people who didn't want to twist. This build is called "Seal Stacking" and is going to fall off in AQ it seems, and another build, temporarily being referred to as "Wrath Lite", where you simply use one seal and press all your spells, is going to take over. "Wrath Lite" uses almost all the same gear as Seal Twisting anyway, so you can switch between them. You're going to want at least 4-pieces of Draconic Tier 2 for AQ, so it makes sense to do Seal Twisting anyway - as you cannot convert Core Forged gear back to Draconic.

thanks I lost a lot of sleep coding it ! glad people like it

@@Arigato-Mister-Roboto there is 2 other playstyles other than seal twisting you can play as paladin that are also good. Exodin and Seal Stacking. But seal twisting is really easy, way easier than it seems at first glance Up to you

@@surveillant okay ill give it a try. love the paladin lore and the aesthetic.

@@seafood500 there's multiple playstyles, the rest are ez and also good . You don't have to twist. Twisting isn't even very hard anyway

This is how playing Paladin should have been all along.

@@Sparks3D yeah you can't have startattack and stopattack on the same macro. They will just alternate rather than both commands going through each time. It might work on an instant twist where the auto and seal happen at the same time, but not for any normal twist it shouldn't. You also don't want to stop your auto attack at the same time as you're casting seals, as this is right before your twist auto attack goes off > you would end up stopping your twist before it even happens. Since the auto and seal don't happen at exactly the same time. Additionally it's good practice to avoid munching any stored extra attacks, because if you start and then stop again without spending your stored attacks you'd lose them. Once you start your attack you have to commit. If both commands went through, or if you just accidentally hit it twice, you'd munch all your stored attacks right before the twist Everybody is always looking for shortcuts to cut down on the macros required or combine various macros together - there really isn't a solution that is more elegant than the macros already provided and recommended, unfortunately, and I've tried most of them

@surveillant Thanks for the response! Yup this would be for instant twisting only, which is essentially what it looks like you are doing on Nef. From testing it out, not running into any problems having stop right after start on the same macro. What I like is that I have a guaranteed twist every time (of course the hits can still miss, parry, dodge, like usual.) And I'm not worried about hitting the .4 window. I guess I would just ask yourself, while instant twisting are you always hitting your /stopattack macro after you twist, if so adding it after /startattack is the same thing. Also, not having any issues with Judgements because it is still twisting and consuming the previous seal as usual. Cheers!

@Sparks3D I guess I'm just not sure what the benefit is to having a separate macro / modifier to have a seal with an extra stopattack at the end but only for instant twists? You will just end up using stopattack on your next filler or judge anyway, which does the same thing I not manually hitting stopattack unless I need to set up an instant twist for whatever reason (accidentally used filler in danger zone, or I'm out of range, etc) my judge and filler macros do that for me in between each normal twist You shouldn't hold your stopattack and instant twist every single twist, because that means you're delaying your auto, which means you are definitely losing melee attacks over the course of the fight You should just be late twisting using the 2nd tick which is basically as close to an instant twist as you can get without delaying your auto. If you're waiting for your swing to be ready and then instant twisting every twist, you're delaying your auto by default and losing swings over time. This is basically called stopattack twisting and it's what you do when you're haste capped and have no other option basically, but I don't think there's a reason to include stopattack in the seal macro at all, only downsides And again youre probably going to lose extra attacks doing this because you're likely stopping your attack before they go off (remember they occur like 10-30ms after the auto not at the same time) if you have stored extra attacks and you use this macro with both start and stop, you're likely just munching your stored attacks on instant twists, and certainly on normal twists which will get screwed anyway by the stopattack if it goes off stopping your attack before the twist occurs - if you're even just 0.01ms early by accident then you will lose big damage by starting attack and stopping it, basically just casting a seal and munching all your stored attacks and your auto just gets stuck until you restart it Yeah Nef p1 all you can do is instant twist really since they die immediately and your swing is ready when they spawn

@Sparks3D sorry I edited that a few times as I thought about it but done now

​@@surveillant ​@surveillant As far as the extra hits, I don't know how to test that. It is letting the melee hits through is all I can see. So a few benefits would be that you aren't missing swings, so having them stored or munched doesn't really apply. Another benefit is that you are always pro-judging and saving having to reapply your seal. Also with Judgement, in regards to having no set bonuses, you can judge this way every 2 swings instead of every 3 like in your guide. You can do this by having Improved Judgement and you may need to wait a half second after your second swing was supposed to hit. This allows for more judgements and you don't need to be worrying about hitting the tiny .2 seconds window to do this everytime since you are in the /stopattack mode. I don't have a separate set of macros to do all this. I only have 2 macros to twist that look like this: #showtooltip /cast Seal of Command /startattack /stopattack Same thing for Martyr, and for the fillers they look exactly like your fillers, and the same for Judgement. I don't add Judgement to the fillers because then you would need to refresh wasting mana when you could have just pro-judged using this method by making sure to hit judgement right after you twist. Hopefully this explains a little more of my set up. Appreciated your responses!

@@farmari87 try deleting the macro completely and remaking it You can also Google how to delete macro cache, as a last resort, but I think you lose all your macros if you do this It sounds like the bug where sometimes you have to remake a macro to get it to work properly again Are you sure that you werent maybe just a little out of range or at the wrong angle and that's why your attack didn't go off? When it happens, look at your characters animation - are the attacking or just standing there? That would tell you if the startattack went off. Can also use the auto attack spell to see if it's toggled on

@@farmari87 it's the right link. TBC Reckoning weakauras track extra attacks, exactly what we need.

@surveillant oh yes, makes sense. Ty.

@@farmari87 That weakaura has begun spitting out errors, so I uploaded a fixed version to Wago. Link is in the description or here: wago.io/woGV4kzIu

@@surveillant thanks for the update!

@@DominicanHater2375 hey glad there's a build for you that you enjoy. Gz

@@stu805x yes the top logs are still a mix of twisting and seal stacking. Stacking is actually better on Vael, and other times when you can get haste buffs like squawks, temporal acceleration, tiger loa, etc.

@@beatsbybrazy it's details damage meter, a plugin called Action Tracker (previously known as Streamer) should come default with Details Damage Meter

Thanks! ​@@surveillant

@@S1mp1ex if your auto attack is already ready, the judge stopattack won't occur in time to prevent the auto attack from going off (if you're facing them and in melee range). It's not really an issue, since we are never using it while our swing is already ready. It's a quirk that is unique to Judgement only.

It's usually not worth the mana while leveling, you'll spend a lot more time drinking. Maybe for elites / dungeon bosses where you need the extra damage.

I did it to practice it. But I had a full p1 geared ret, it is so much fun. But please keep in mind to twist without judgement, while you don’t have the t2 set bonus.

yeah i have a few im gonna drop over the next few days, but you can see the VODs on my twitch already (link in description)

@@comradeselami7463 it's in the description bud

@@TheHoboWithAShotgun undying laborer, servant of razelikh (blasted lands mob I use in the video)

@@TheHoboWithAShotgun that's fine if you can keep track of what seal you're in. I wouldn't add the Libram swap, as it will trigger a global cooldown unless you're already on the gcd, and it resets your swing. I just have my librams on my bars. If you judge crusader with fervor and then swap librams, the crusader debuff will downgrade. Fervor adds hardly anything only like 7 attack power value, I would just not use it. Use draconic destruction for any dragonkins

@surveillant ok. Ty so I'll take it out And yah don't got the dragonkin librarm and never did blood moon to get any coins periods. Trying to get it now is aids as no one really does it anymore, and I'm lazy to go farm it. I'll stick with libram of plenty ty. If I can find a way to get the dragonkin one I will ty fkr reply

@@TheHoboWithAShotgun so there is 3 ways to farm the Libram easily. It's really not so bad with a little help. 1) slowest - farm the gorillas on the island. 1 blood each. Can get 150 coins per event. 2) find the boosters - some people sell boosts/kills for gold - obviously I don't condone buying one, but they usually congregate near the ruins of aboraz, I farmed them a few times. You can usually catch them when they have full blood. And take 33 per kill off them (they are ez targets, usually half afk) 3) get a few friends from your guild and get them to come duel you. I had 3 or 4 people help me and they staggered their res and I got 600 in one event easily, coulda been more but I got all I needed You can also try to farm people going into ZG, but most of them usually have the event turned off, so it's often a waste of time.

@@surveillant ty yay I'll look into it

64ms is low enough that youll be fine leaving them where they are; but if for some reason they feel completely off, you can try moving them. I play with 40ms-50ms myself and the ticks work great.

It is still completely doable yes, you just might need to move the ticks + sound cues + color changes in the swing timer to adjust - I know someone who twists and cancel judges with 270ms completely fine. It's just something you have to adjust to. Go to the Display and Conditions tabs, and try adding 0.15-0.2 to the tick markers / sound / color changes and start there until it feels like a good spot.

because this will interuppt the rotation and the instant twist as well right?

You said to macro it to the filler spells. But could we just macro it to every spell and just never worry about it?

@@Drotord you can macro it into everything but seals

@@surveillant why is that, does it mess up the swing timers?

@@Drotord because you want judgement to occur after the auto attack, not at the same time as the seal - just shortly after additionally because you want /stopattack on judge, but /startattack on seal - if you don't have stopattack on judge and you judge with your seal, and it resets the swing timer from a proc, you just lost an entire swing.