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@Gary-rn9wp 28 күн бұрын
Question for you, I am looking to do a right side frame mount panhard bar on my dirt late model. What height off the ground would you suggest the mount on the left axle and how much angle in the bar?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 28 күн бұрын
We always mounted ours just off the left side bell, 2-3” below centerline and the right side frame mount 4-5” above that.
@Gary-rn9wp 28 күн бұрын
Thank you. Also is there any track (banked/flat) or (tacky/slick) that would work best with this application?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 27 күн бұрын
I haven’t seen it in years. It’s an old Rayburn setup. The side bite actually pulls hard into the RR spring. You’d need to experiment with it.
@2weldit 2 ай бұрын
Awesome stuff! Ever do desert racing with bypass shocks?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC Ай бұрын
Never done any desert racing, but bypass shocks are the future in our sport if anyone wants to figure them out and the sanctioning bodies want to keep them legal. Sanctioning bodies in our sport want to limit it too much. It's sad. I think it's all an effort to keep stupid people competitive.
@caley15e 2 ай бұрын
Love the concept… my question is wouldn’t the load on the LS in your diagram be applied the opposite direction? I see the drawing as the load is toward the chassis in both drawings but wouldn’t it be toward the chassis in RF and away from the chassis on LF? Also how would you relate this concept to having a high and long instant center on the LF which I know helps to load the LF even to the point of breaking suspension components (I believe you mentioned in your book) Thanks for the great video
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 2 ай бұрын
Yep, that is correct, but the KPI is really what I'm trying to think about here. The more I think about the possible drawbacks, I'm not so sure it would work. Maybe.
@Ryanezek36 3 ай бұрын
Id like to see this on a cad
@Ryanezek36 3 ай бұрын
I agree with you with unstable wheel loading
@Ryanezek36 3 ай бұрын
Can you make me a spindle to try
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 3 ай бұрын
I'm no longer in the building end of things. I just try to share ideas and try to help people out.
@Ryanezek36 3 ай бұрын
Makes allot of sense
@jamesglass3278 3 ай бұрын
Thank you sir for your time and information...
@Ryanezek36 3 ай бұрын
I often wondered if you mounted the lift arm solid to the rear end and used the torque to stear the rear set it up like a 3 link
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 3 ай бұрын
I’m not sure. I’ve only played with three-link stuff a little.
@Oliver880-eg8sz 4 ай бұрын
How did russ die?
@KevinKatzenberg 4 ай бұрын
@@Oliver880-eg8sz I’ve never been told an official cause. It’s my belief it was heart problems.
@Oliver880-eg8sz 4 ай бұрын
@@KevinKatzenberg I know George went out the way George would have wanted to go out.George had one speed and that full throttle.He would be 80 this year.
@RickJ.Dalton 5 ай бұрын
Appreciate your videos.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching. Comments and posts like your is what keeps me motivated to do more. I get real busy during the summer, but hope to make more this winter.
@erichohol4515 5 ай бұрын
Just curious about wheel alignment. I was looking for a video from you that covers relationships to front a rear tire alignment mainly the right side ,and spacing in and out in general. I really like your videos and can relate to your theories. What I'm trying to do is make the car leave the corner straighter.l feel like I have to much steer, chasing the rear of car up off the corner with the front end ? Just asking for your opinion
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I believe right-side tire alignment is one of the biggest changes you can make to your car. When your car is at race attitude, your right side tires should be close to aligned. This is a strung version with the front tires countersteered so the side walls line up. In a little makes the car tighter. out a little makes the car free. I cover this in my book with some pictures to help clarify things. I may make a video about this in the winter. Thanks for watching.
@waynesmith5757 5 ай бұрын
I think this could be done with a spring inside a spring. What’s your opinion? I’m gonna roll it around in my head and see what falls out. Thanks!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 3 ай бұрын
I know I’ve always struggled with clearance issues with this. The smaller you can get it the better.
@TheCarter239 5 ай бұрын
Whats your thoughts about running a straight bar instead of a J bar? Ump A mod. I know it's gonna plant the lr much more.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I know the Bob Pierce mods were always a straight bar. Depending on the angle, it will make the car roll more. These to me were always a looser in tighter off sort of thing.
@TheCarter239 5 ай бұрын
@HoganTechnologiesLLC loose in tight off can be fast if you keep the car under you. The black and red car is a pierce copy and that's what I ran was a straight bar. Gonna switch from J bar to straight bar on my new car and try it out. Looking for that DIG
@Coonyabear 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for the great videos. Your book is very informative also. I’m a new wissota Midwest mod driver and been struggling to figure out how to drive into the corners and get the car rotated and your videos have really helped me
@williamstile5696 7 ай бұрын
Kevin do you have any pictures of what a old cantilever rear suspension looked like?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 7 ай бұрын
No, sorry, I’ve seen all different configurations. There a a lot of different space constraints to keep in mind. I’ve seen them with both the springs facing forward and the springs facing backward.
@MelindaVaught-y5l 8 ай бұрын
when you say "graph the shock mount position".... your talking lower shock mount through the movement of the BC during the indexing during hike and bar angle changes, correct ?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 8 ай бұрын
Yea. I built a side view model of a suspension. I put a piece of oversized paper behind it and could draw and chart the positions. It really shows you what is going on with the rear shocks. Drop your birdcage at half inch increments and see what goes on with the shock. Then start altering arm lengths and angles and watch how it affects the shock.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 8 ай бұрын
You can also start looking at shock speed per position. The closer the shock mount ending points are to each other, the slower the shock speed is at that position. With a little work, and a simple shock dyno, you might start getting a sense on where and how much bleed you want in the shock.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@roybleckert5920 8 ай бұрын
RU proposing the 25 deg KPI on the LF only ???
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 8 ай бұрын
At this time I am. I think we are getting plenty of force on the right front just with weight transfer.
@tallstacker 9 ай бұрын
whats ur local track
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
We just mainly tour around with the Dirt Kings series here in Wisconsin. I’m at Fairbury or Farmers City as much as possible though.
@tallstacker 9 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC dang lol I’m from north east Oklahoma
@jeffwooton7138 9 ай бұрын
Interesting thoughts. Make sense. But as you alluded to, everything is a compromise. Finding that magic balance is the trick. I'm trying to figure out how to apply it to a stock car, which may be impossible since we have to use stock spindles.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
Yea, stock spindles are a ver limiting factor without compromising camber.
@Dino-cj1ko 9 ай бұрын
I like you're thinking. No wonder Russ was so fast.
@dankrauss6422 9 ай бұрын
How would that concept work on a ump dirt mod thank you
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
It would be tough to do on a mod because you can’t alter the KPI. You could take camber out of it, but camber is way more important than the kpi change.
@dankrauss6422 9 ай бұрын
@HoganTechnologiesLLC thank you I know that wiggling steering as the track dried out with my sprint car yrs ago. The traction remained n it smoothed out with speed thanks for information n your channel
@bobbymenzie9853 9 ай бұрын
What can be done to add traction to a dirt?Late model running on hard tires american racer MD 56
@donniecox5442 9 ай бұрын
I don't think the tire pressure on left front will ever put any pressure on lower control arm ..pull outwards sure ..all pressure would be on top control arm pushing in towards chassis ...but I'm probably not understand the scenario ur trying to give but I do have a question about lift arm on late model if u use lighter spring or decrease the load static would it help to get on bars quicker ..hope I ask the question correctly..love ur videos
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
I like the softer stuff on the lift bars. Because the panhard bar mounts in front of and below the pinion, the softer spring would have a faster lifting motion on the panhard where it mounts on the frame on the lr.
@regdor8187 9 ай бұрын
You would love tire temperature IF you could get it real time entering the corner....You can, if you know a little more.....
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
Yes, real time data would be ideal. I’ve seen spindle mounted arms with sensors pointing on three spots on each tire to get real time data during testing, but these setups were on highend asphalt and road course cars.
@regdor8187 9 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC yes, I wanted to go commercial with an array of Ir sensors covering 10-12 inches width but ball-n- chain nex'd that ...
@woodbeckmotorsports00 9 ай бұрын
What are you looking for in regards to tire wear on the LF tire and the RF tire?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
I think you would want even tire wear.
@yhites 9 ай бұрын
I think everyone talking about getting air under the car needs to also take into account the engine exhaust that dumps under the car. I believe the center of the car around the transmission is actually a high pressure area.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
A really good point. That’s why a focus on getting the air out is as important as not letting the air in.
@gailtaylor1636 9 ай бұрын
Believe it was MRE that had a cantilever 5th coil waaaay back-in-the-day. Shock was laid flat. Linkage was very compact. Maybe 3" from center pivot? Been 40 years ago @ Pennsboro. Am i really that old. Crap...
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 9 ай бұрын
I think it might be the way to go.
@glenharper3136 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
You are welcome!
@andyfields2162 10 ай бұрын
What about changing the lengths on the cantilever to multiply the spring rate? Years ago we used rat tail micro switch to limit the 5th coil to no more than 3". We ended up running a stiff spring on the 5th coil. We had a ton of forward bite even with 4 bar set up. There are a bunch of variables that constantly cause change in the 5th coil rate.... Nobody fools with it.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Yea, there is a ton of stuff to consider there. I really like the switch idea. Thanks.
@andyfields2162 9 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC I set the micro switch to power a light on the dash panel when it reached 3 inches of travel. Actually worked great.
@JustinHobbs2112 10 ай бұрын
A great video. This is an area i've never thought to explore, but makes sense how HP could be lost here.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@daniellueken7820 10 ай бұрын
Lazer chassis has turned engine for years to reduce elliptical whip.
@CherezianRacing 10 ай бұрын
Turned engine pointing down towards the rear end?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Ok, thanks. There is something there, and with the amount of suspension travel we see, I think it’s more art than science.
@daniellueken7820 10 ай бұрын
@CherezianRacing not down. Just to left.
@CherezianRacing 10 ай бұрын
@@daniellueken7820 so the tailshaft points toward the LR?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Yes, it has a natural slope down 3 or 4. Then some people have been experimenting with also pointing toward the lr.
@stanleyhaddix9432 10 ай бұрын
All great videos
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@mitchbrown3168 10 ай бұрын
Have you done anymore testing with this theory since the video was made?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
No I haven’t. The team I help now keeps really close to what the manufacturer recomends. If anyone ever does any work in this area, I’d love to hear your thoughts.
@JustinHobbs2112 10 ай бұрын
Another great lesson and much food for thought
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Thank you and thanks for watching.
@williamstile5696 10 ай бұрын
Kevin I would like to here some more Darren Miller stories. I have herd he was way ahead of his time when it came to making his own spindles and componets
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Yea, he used to build his own spindles. They were monoball style; super simple and super strong. He used to get his Rocket built to his spec and he wasn’t afraid to modify them him. His method to setting up a car was quite a bit different too. Much of it I still use today. That’s why I don’t talk much about wheel loads and smash numbers. This is useful information, but I think a lot like to talk about it without really understanding it.
@skyway2k 10 ай бұрын
Your thoughts on bump steer and Ackerman on asphalt?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
I think most people bump their car as close to zero a possible. I think I would recommend the ackerman the same direction as a dirt car, just a little less; maybe ¼" when turning left and zero when going right. I think because of the traction on asphalt, you might take the radius of the turn into more consideration. The larger the radius, the less left turn ackerman.
@jumpshotkangaroo7585 10 ай бұрын
Would you apply this to an asphalt late model? My rules dont allow me to run bump stops but i am just starting to get into roll centers so im taking everything in!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
I would assume it would be close to the same but not as extreme. Bumpsteer on asphalt I always heard was as close to zero as you can get it. Ackerman might want to get closer to the running radius of the corner to eliminate scrub.
@JustinHobbs2112 10 ай бұрын
Keep it coming boss man. We’re learning a lot. Thank you
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@dwbmotorsports1 10 ай бұрын
Drivers almost have to treat corner entry like drafting. Angleing their entry to keep the car out of dirty turbulent air left from the cars infront of them. The rise in sliders in my opinion is because quite frankly these cars today cant be over driven. And these new kids don't know that hesitant feeling of a car not turning.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
I’m anxious to see how this plays out. Thanks for watching.
@robertgivens2586 10 ай бұрын
Excellent i appreciate your help and knowledge
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching.
@robertgivens2586 10 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC you need to make some DVD's for us forgetful old guys lol. Have a blessed day brother
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.@@robertgivens2586
@danamcintyre3565 10 ай бұрын
I'm sorry but this has been going on for years, back in the early 2000 when I raced open motor modified there was one guy that did this all the time until he tried that on me, I broke him on doing the slide job after he found his self backed into the uke tires and out of the race and he had the nerve to come to me and ask if i wrecked him on purpose, my reply was yes and I'll do it again if you can't pass me clean then don't slide me !
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
I when I first came into late model racing,stuff did go on, but there seemed to be a lot more respect. No one wanted to tear up cars like they do now. I don’t know where this slide job culture is going, but it interesting to keep an eye on. Thanks for watching.
@larrytasillo792 10 ай бұрын
Like spring rate, I have a hunch the frequency will halve too when 2 are stacked. I have no data on this, just a hunch.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Maybe, I’d have to think about this more. I’ll see if I can find something in my books.
@aaronapostol7465 7 ай бұрын
Frequency decreases as spring are added in series.
@BobMarley-bm8hw 6 ай бұрын
The gentlemen above are correct. When calculating the oscillation frequency of two springs in series, the effective rate is used. So a single 200lb/in spring will have the same frequency as two 400lb/in springs in series with an effective rate of 200lb/in.
@jeffwooton7138 11 ай бұрын
I'm curious as to what speed aero take effect, or at least is a contributing factor. I drive a hobby stock. 99 Monte with a late Camaro nose. I feel there is an advantage, but at what speed?!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
I think there is always some effect. The faster you go, the more of an effect.
@Axeman12171 11 ай бұрын
Check out Morans left front wheel well! lol
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 11 ай бұрын
Found it. Yea, he opened it up pretty good.
@isaacandruthruss90 11 ай бұрын
Great video, I am not from the USA, and I am not familiar with the dirt late model rules, but is there any rules that forbid paneling in the underside of the car and running a diffuser?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 11 ай бұрын
I’m not positive, but I think there is.
@RickJ.Dalton 11 ай бұрын
The large left wheel wells i think would cause more air to be drawn through causing more drag like they say with driving a pickup with the the tailgate DOWN actually makes gas mileage worse.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 11 ай бұрын
I agree with making the right side wheel wells small to not let the air I, but I think getting as much air out as possible is a benefit. Years ago Josh Richard’s showed up at Screvin, I think was, with ½ the LR quarter panel missing. He was clearly faster. They made him correct it and the car slowed down. I think there is something to getting as much air out as possible.
@richardhatfieldgreg3851 11 ай бұрын
Great video. Totally agree with the left rear needing a bigger opening for air to escape. What about RR dynamic height being so low? Doesn't that contribute to the LF problem?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 11 ай бұрын
Yes, definitely. The RR height does affect a ton. I do go through what I think needs to happen in another one of my videos. Thanks for watching.
@chriskissinger7178 11 ай бұрын
The part youre missing is if there isnt air on the nose entering the corner everything's youre saying is irrelevant! PERIOD!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 11 ай бұрын
We will always have some air on the nose. What I’m saying is that instead of being 90 percent dependent on air, we should get the cars to steer better naturally and be 60 percent dependent on air.
@chazbuchinsky19 11 ай бұрын
See what you just said is why I won’t run anything but a stack LR. You can’t control the left rears ride height correctly and have a good drop out load with a single anymore. It’s to big to a range. If not like you said your LR ride height and RH load will be trash also. I like to run less drop out load then most because it keeps your car free
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 10 ай бұрын
Yea, I think it is all about getting the right balance. Thanks.
@christopherdial 11 ай бұрын
What is RTJ doing to get the nose to float in air like a Cadillac. His car seems to articulate and float over the ruts.
@KevinKatzenberg 11 ай бұрын
He is good. I don’t know if I could contribute it to just one thing. Things like that seem to be a good combination of shock valving, spring choices, and even driving (how to hit the holes). It seems he is still a bit on the tight aero side. He’s really just a talented driver. Thanks for watching.