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@TheCarter239 8 сағат бұрын
Whats your thoughts about running a straight bar instead of a J bar? Ump A mod. I know it's gonna plant the lr much more.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 сағат бұрын
I know the Bob Pierce mods were always a straight bar. Depending on the angle, it will make the car roll more. These to me were always a looser in tighter off sort of thing.
@TheCarter239 4 сағат бұрын
@HoganTechnologiesLLC loose in tight off can be fast if you keep the car under you. The black and red car is a pierce copy and that's what I ran was a straight bar. Gonna switch from J bar to straight bar on my new car and try it out. Looking for that DIG
@richardlay1492 Ай бұрын
That man never been to wind tunnel stop talk to get like on your video
@Coonyabear 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for the great videos. Your book is very informative also. I’m a new wissota Midwest mod driver and been struggling to figure out how to drive into the corners and get the car rotated and your videos have really helped me
@williamstile5696 2 ай бұрын
Kevin do you have any pictures of what a old cantilever rear suspension looked like?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 2 ай бұрын
No, sorry, I’ve seen all different configurations. There a a lot of different space constraints to keep in mind. I’ve seen them with both the springs facing forward and the springs facing backward.
@user-rq8rh3pw3c 2 ай бұрын
when you say "graph the shock mount position".... your talking lower shock mount through the movement of the BC during the indexing during hike and bar angle changes, correct ?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 2 ай бұрын
Yea. I built a side view model of a suspension. I put a piece of oversized paper behind it and could draw and chart the positions. It really shows you what is going on with the rear shocks. Drop your birdcage at half inch increments and see what goes on with the shock. Then start altering arm lengths and angles and watch how it affects the shock.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 2 ай бұрын
You can also start looking at shock speed per position. The closer the shock mount ending points are to each other, the slower the shock speed is at that position. With a little work, and a simple shock dyno, you might start getting a sense on where and how much bleed you want in the shock.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@roybleckert5920 3 ай бұрын
RU proposing the 25 deg KPI on the LF only ???
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 3 ай бұрын
At this time I am. I think we are getting plenty of force on the right front just with weight transfer.
@tallstacker 3 ай бұрын
whats ur local track
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 3 ай бұрын
We just mainly tour around with the Dirt Kings series here in Wisconsin. I’m at Fairbury or Farmers City as much as possible though.
@tallstacker 3 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC dang lol I’m from north east Oklahoma
@jeffwooton7138 3 ай бұрын
Interesting thoughts. Make sense. But as you alluded to, everything is a compromise. Finding that magic balance is the trick. I'm trying to figure out how to apply it to a stock car, which may be impossible since we have to use stock spindles.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 3 ай бұрын
Yea, stock spindles are a ver limiting factor without compromising camber.
@Dino-cj1ko 4 ай бұрын
I like you're thinking. No wonder Russ was so fast.
@dankrauss6422 4 ай бұрын
How would that concept work on a ump dirt mod thank you
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
It would be tough to do on a mod because you can’t alter the KPI. You could take camber out of it, but camber is way more important than the kpi change.
@dankrauss6422 4 ай бұрын
@HoganTechnologiesLLC thank you I know that wiggling steering as the track dried out with my sprint car yrs ago. The traction remained n it smoothed out with speed thanks for information n your channel
@bobbymenzie9853 3 ай бұрын
What can be done to add traction to a dirt?Late model running on hard tires american racer MD 56
@donniecox5442 4 ай бұрын
I don't think the tire pressure on left front will ever put any pressure on lower control arm ..pull outwards sure ..all pressure would be on top control arm pushing in towards chassis ...but I'm probably not understand the scenario ur trying to give but I do have a question about lift arm on late model if u use lighter spring or decrease the load static would it help to get on bars quicker ..hope I ask the question correctly..love ur videos
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
I like the softer stuff on the lift bars. Because the panhard bar mounts in front of and below the pinion, the softer spring would have a faster lifting motion on the panhard where it mounts on the frame on the lr.
@regdor8187 4 ай бұрын
You would love tire temperature IF you could get it real time entering the corner....You can, if you know a little more.....
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
Yes, real time data would be ideal. I’ve seen spindle mounted arms with sensors pointing on three spots on each tire to get real time data during testing, but these setups were on highend asphalt and road course cars.
@regdor8187 4 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC yes, I wanted to go commercial with an array of Ir sensors covering 10-12 inches width but ball-n- chain nex'd that ...
@woodbeckmotorsports00 4 ай бұрын
What are you looking for in regards to tire wear on the LF tire and the RF tire?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
I think you would want even tire wear.
@yhites 4 ай бұрын
I think everyone talking about getting air under the car needs to also take into account the engine exhaust that dumps under the car. I believe the center of the car around the transmission is actually a high pressure area.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
A really good point. That’s why a focus on getting the air out is as important as not letting the air in.
@gailtaylor1636 4 ай бұрын
Believe it was MRE that had a cantilever 5th coil waaaay back-in-the-day. Shock was laid flat. Linkage was very compact. Maybe 3" from center pivot? Been 40 years ago @ Pennsboro. Am i really that old. Crap...
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
I think it might be the way to go.
@glenharper3136 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
You are welcome!
@andyfields2162 4 ай бұрын
What about changing the lengths on the cantilever to multiply the spring rate? Years ago we used rat tail micro switch to limit the 5th coil to no more than 3". We ended up running a stiff spring on the 5th coil. We had a ton of forward bite even with 4 bar set up. There are a bunch of variables that constantly cause change in the 5th coil rate.... Nobody fools with it.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
Yea, there is a ton of stuff to consider there. I really like the switch idea. Thanks.
@andyfields2162 4 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC I set the micro switch to power a light on the dash panel when it reached 3 inches of travel. Actually worked great.
@JustinHobbs2112 4 ай бұрын
A great video. This is an area i've never thought to explore, but makes sense how HP could be lost here.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@daniellueken7820 4 ай бұрын
Lazer chassis has turned engine for years to reduce elliptical whip.
@CherezianRacing 4 ай бұрын
Turned engine pointing down towards the rear end?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
Ok, thanks. There is something there, and with the amount of suspension travel we see, I think it’s more art than science.
@daniellueken7820 4 ай бұрын
@CherezianRacing not down. Just to left.
@CherezianRacing 4 ай бұрын
@@daniellueken7820 so the tailshaft points toward the LR?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
Yes, it has a natural slope down 3 or 4. Then some people have been experimenting with also pointing toward the lr.
@stanleyhaddix9432 4 ай бұрын
All great videos
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@mitchbrown3168 5 ай бұрын
Have you done anymore testing with this theory since the video was made?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
No I haven’t. The team I help now keeps really close to what the manufacturer recomends. If anyone ever does any work in this area, I’d love to hear your thoughts.
@JustinHobbs2112 5 ай бұрын
Another great lesson and much food for thought
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Thank you and thanks for watching.
@williamstile5696 5 ай бұрын
Kevin I would like to here some more Darren Miller stories. I have herd he was way ahead of his time when it came to making his own spindles and componets
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Yea, he used to build his own spindles. They were monoball style; super simple and super strong. He used to get his Rocket built to his spec and he wasn’t afraid to modify them him. His method to setting up a car was quite a bit different too. Much of it I still use today. That’s why I don’t talk much about wheel loads and smash numbers. This is useful information, but I think a lot like to talk about it without really understanding it.
@skyway2k 5 ай бұрын
Your thoughts on bump steer and Ackerman on asphalt?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I think most people bump their car as close to zero a possible. I think I would recommend the ackerman the same direction as a dirt car, just a little less; maybe ¼" when turning left and zero when going right. I think because of the traction on asphalt, you might take the radius of the turn into more consideration. The larger the radius, the less left turn ackerman.
@jumpshotkangaroo7585 5 ай бұрын
Would you apply this to an asphalt late model? My rules dont allow me to run bump stops but i am just starting to get into roll centers so im taking everything in!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I would assume it would be close to the same but not as extreme. Bumpsteer on asphalt I always heard was as close to zero as you can get it. Ackerman might want to get closer to the running radius of the corner to eliminate scrub.
@JustinHobbs2112 5 ай бұрын
Keep it coming boss man. We’re learning a lot. Thank you
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@dwbmotorsports1 5 ай бұрын
Drivers almost have to treat corner entry like drafting. Angleing their entry to keep the car out of dirty turbulent air left from the cars infront of them. The rise in sliders in my opinion is because quite frankly these cars today cant be over driven. And these new kids don't know that hesitant feeling of a car not turning.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I’m anxious to see how this plays out. Thanks for watching.
@robertgivens2586 5 ай бұрын
Excellent i appreciate your help and knowledge
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching.
@robertgivens2586 5 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLC you need to make some DVD's for us forgetful old guys lol. Have a blessed day brother
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.@@robertgivens2586
@danamcintyre3565 5 ай бұрын
I'm sorry but this has been going on for years, back in the early 2000 when I raced open motor modified there was one guy that did this all the time until he tried that on me, I broke him on doing the slide job after he found his self backed into the uke tires and out of the race and he had the nerve to come to me and ask if i wrecked him on purpose, my reply was yes and I'll do it again if you can't pass me clean then don't slide me !
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I when I first came into late model racing,stuff did go on, but there seemed to be a lot more respect. No one wanted to tear up cars like they do now. I don’t know where this slide job culture is going, but it interesting to keep an eye on. Thanks for watching.
@larrytasillo792 5 ай бұрын
Like spring rate, I have a hunch the frequency will halve too when 2 are stacked. I have no data on this, just a hunch.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Maybe, I’d have to think about this more. I’ll see if I can find something in my books.
@aaronapostol7465 2 ай бұрын
Frequency decreases as spring are added in series.
@BobMarley-bm8hw Ай бұрын
The gentlemen above are correct. When calculating the oscillation frequency of two springs in series, the effective rate is used. So a single 200lb/in spring will have the same frequency as two 400lb/in springs in series with an effective rate of 200lb/in.
@jeffwooton7138 5 ай бұрын
I'm curious as to what speed aero take effect, or at least is a contributing factor. I drive a hobby stock. 99 Monte with a late Camaro nose. I feel there is an advantage, but at what speed?!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I think there is always some effect. The faster you go, the more of an effect.
@Axeman12171 5 ай бұрын
Check out Morans left front wheel well! lol
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Found it. Yea, he opened it up pretty good.
@isaacandruthruss90 5 ай бұрын
Great video, I am not from the USA, and I am not familiar with the dirt late model rules, but is there any rules that forbid paneling in the underside of the car and running a diffuser?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I’m not positive, but I think there is.
@RickJ.Dalton 5 ай бұрын
The large left wheel wells i think would cause more air to be drawn through causing more drag like they say with driving a pickup with the the tailgate DOWN actually makes gas mileage worse.
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I agree with making the right side wheel wells small to not let the air I, but I think getting as much air out as possible is a benefit. Years ago Josh Richard’s showed up at Screvin, I think was, with ½ the LR quarter panel missing. He was clearly faster. They made him correct it and the car slowed down. I think there is something to getting as much air out as possible.
@richardhatfieldgreg3851 5 ай бұрын
Great video. Totally agree with the left rear needing a bigger opening for air to escape. What about RR dynamic height being so low? Doesn't that contribute to the LF problem?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Yes, definitely. The RR height does affect a ton. I do go through what I think needs to happen in another one of my videos. Thanks for watching.
@chriskissinger7178 5 ай бұрын
The part youre missing is if there isnt air on the nose entering the corner everything's youre saying is irrelevant! PERIOD!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
We will always have some air on the nose. What I’m saying is that instead of being 90 percent dependent on air, we should get the cars to steer better naturally and be 60 percent dependent on air.
@chazbuchinsky19 5 ай бұрын
See what you just said is why I won’t run anything but a stack LR. You can’t control the left rears ride height correctly and have a good drop out load with a single anymore. It’s to big to a range. If not like you said your LR ride height and RH load will be trash also. I like to run less drop out load then most because it keeps your car free
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
Yea, I think it is all about getting the right balance. Thanks.
@christopherdial 5 ай бұрын
What is RTJ doing to get the nose to float in air like a Cadillac. His car seems to articulate and float over the ruts.
@KevinKatzenberg 5 ай бұрын
He is good. I don’t know if I could contribute it to just one thing. Things like that seem to be a good combination of shock valving, spring choices, and even driving (how to hit the holes). It seems he is still a bit on the tight aero side. He’s really just a talented driver. Thanks for watching.
@RMerritts66 5 ай бұрын
This may be the wrong thinking but what about a sway bar up front with some preload on it
@KevinKatzenberg 5 ай бұрын
Not a bad idea for something to try. I know some really old school cars played with them back in the nineties. I’m going to have to give it some thought. Thanks for watching.
@Sonic0988 5 ай бұрын
Thought provoking for sure.
@caseybudd4914 5 ай бұрын
1. Why not just raise the RR up and teeter back to the LF with your LR/RF as a pivot axis? In my experience, when we get too far with this the car doesn’t stick the right rear and skates. Some call this no “side bite”. Whatever that means haha. 2. When the LF comes off the ground it becomes sprung weight and now the other 3 tires are carrying the weight of the car entirely. Specifically loading the LR/RF. 3. I agree the aerodynamics are about rake of the whole car. It’s also about unshrouding the spoiler from the roof. I also agree the LF should be on the ground. Where I’ve landed at the moment is that it’s all about loading of the LR. The chain attempts to jerk the LR off the ground until the forces balance out. Toting the LF inherently loads the LR, somewhat negating the upward pull of the chain. I think this is specifically what Rumley solved with his trickery (along with controlling rear steer with respect to axle wrap) but all that stuff is outlawed now. Thoughts?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 5 ай бұрын
I've gone back and forth for years with the thoughts about pulling that LF off the ground. Right now, with cars that are way too tight, I'm leaning toward keeping the LF on the ground. We could raise the RR. And, that would solve the problem of the RR not being loaded and help put the connection back in the LF. I think the problem with the chain snapping the LR off the ground is a severe problem. This can be partially solved by adding more extended load to the LR spring. So at least the LR would be riding on the spring. Thanks for watching.
@chazbuchinsky19 5 ай бұрын
@@HoganTechnologiesLLCthat’s where the stack LR is the better option if you know what to do with it. Less drop out load but more RH Load to keep it there is better for me atleast
@baims8367 6 ай бұрын
👍🏻🏁 great info so many guys confuse themselves too death and end up just lost. We’re turning left so 🤷🏼♂️ it’s not rocket 🚀 science really hell moonshiners started this racing deal ya know . Lol😂 Kiss 💋. Keep it simple stupid Yall.
@baims8367 6 ай бұрын
Tire Temps will dictate your camber * ADave Hammond is the king of setting up your chassis when it’s in its Dynamic phase..
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 6 ай бұрын
Tire temps are a useful tool, but I find the problem with tire temps, on dirt, is it is hard to get enough temperature in the front tires to tell a whole bunch. Plus, as soon as you come off of speed, they begin to neutralize. Tire wear over time is about as far as I go.
@jeffwooton7138 6 ай бұрын
We've used that 4' level trick before, even at the shop. It's simple, and works.
@Gregorybridgewater 6 ай бұрын
So split caster is having more on the right than the left?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 6 ай бұрын
Yes, We always tried to keep a two-degree split; more on the right.
@baims8367 6 ай бұрын
Rf+5 Lf +3 caster Rf-6 Lf +4 camber
@danamcintyre3565 6 ай бұрын
A lot of your information is great for the late model guys but I'm a modified guy so no stacking springs for me so a lot of this I don't think does me any good ? So it would I would be changing rebound and compression on a shock with not stacking springs ?
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching. A lot of mod guys are changing shocks to adjust to the changing track conditions. Just changing to a shock will affect your car a ton. As the track slows down, you will get less weight transfer to the right. Opening up the bleed area on the right side shocks will speed up the weight transfer as the track conditions slow the transfer down.
@mikewalther73 6 ай бұрын
Thanks Kevin!
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 6 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching.
@troykidd3232 6 ай бұрын
I want to say people are doing this. Ive seen people swapping shock packages at the track. What would be your opinion on a valving choice for a non adjustable integra nitrogen shock ,for a dry slick track
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 6 ай бұрын
I love the non-adjustable Integras. I think that is their best shock if they have base valves in them. On the slick, I always like opening up the bleed (low-speed range) and then ramping them up from there. It's almost like a progressive valving. I always liked when bumping the bleed up, to increase the top end to catch the car in case the car hits a hole or cushion. You don't want it to collapse too hard if it hits something. The bigger bleed will promote more traction. Thanks for watching.
@jeffwooton7138 6 ай бұрын
Can't wait till the next issue. I race a hobby stock, so nothing directly translates, but I can correlate the trend. Keep it coming
@HoganTechnologiesLLC 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching. A lot of times I try to keep it basic enough for a larger audience to get something from it. I'm a late model guy so that is the direction I kind of lean.
@17maraschick 6 ай бұрын
It’s kept me awake at night thinking about the LR bound up on the chain and against the bar angle and there’s 0 suspension or shock left at that point.