@@ukura unfortunately, the patches from Rev2 are not backward compatible with 08.

@@CreativeSpiral thank you for your reply. Would you recommend selling P08 to get the rev 2 or is there settings that would still allow me the VCM modulation ? i.e. what is the pro08 lacking that the rev 2 has?

Hey - thanks for your interest! Shoot me a PM at [email protected], with the specific sets you're interested in purchasing together, and I can offer a package deal / discount.

@CreativeSpiral perfect i will im John by the way nice to meet ya and thanks

@@marzzz1 yeah, they all work on PB12 and sound just like PB6, just less voice stealing… also, changing to the Full Touch mode gives some nice expressive variances on many. I’ll probably do a dedicated PB12 sound set at some point too.

Yeah, tested out all my PB6 patches on the new PB12 (this VCM template and my PB Fundamentals soundset)... they all work/sound great! I've started to work on a new soundset as well, using the new keybed modes and some more layered patches now that there's 12 voices.

@@CreativeSpiral OK, cool! I will wait to hear about the new soundset then. I just got the PB12, and have a lot to learn yet.

The screen is adequate for quick patching on explorer (and the synth is well laid out), but would be a bit better on the larger models, with extra screen space and knobs. I personally didn't like the smaller keys and keybed feel on my explorer... so I ended up selling it... but I understand how that form factor is better for many.

@@vinylselektaz6475 no… for multitrack beat making with a single keyboard, something like an Akai MPC keyboard would be the way to go… or workstation keyboards from Roland or Yamaha.

The analog core oscillator gives natural analog wave shape and harmonic series, free of any digital aliasing or upper harmonic issues... for a true analog response. The clock/tuning of that analog oscillator is what's digital in DCOs, leading to perfect tuning per oscillator, per voice. (note: worth noting that digital aliasing is mostly a non-factor in modern digital/fpga/nco synths... it was more of an issue in 80s/90s/00s digital synths) (also note: modern digital oscillators, with well implemented vintage voice modeling schemes -- like Groove 3rd Wave -- can capture the great majority of "analog character" that is associated with classic/vintage analog VCO synths.)

@@CreativeSpiral so is this vintage voice modelling technique basically just setting a Defined Detune and Envelope Timing Offset between each Oscillator?

@@prcption8636 Yeah, the methodology I've been advocating for is to use "curated tables of stable offsets" that target per voice, per osc tuning, filter cutoff/res, env ADR timings, LFO rate timings, and other parameters in the synth engine which were traditionally controlled via analog circuitry back in the 70s/80s poly synth era. By having small per voice / per component offsets, it introduces a bunch of organic phasing and temporal variances that we associate with that classic/vintage analog poly character. Sequential's vintage knob uses this methodology, as does Arturia Analog Accuracy (which I helped to design/curate) and Groove 3rd Wave (which I also helped to design curate their implementation) There's some more detailed info on my www.VoiceComponentModeling.com website, and the www.PresetPatch.com site -- If you're interested in reading more on the topic.

I’ve been weighing this against a Take5..

@@Hysteric_Subjects when I purchased it, I was thinking I’d just use it for monophonic capabilities… but the 3-osc/voice paraphonic mode is excellent… one of my favorite things about Pro-3 … check out my “Mass and Motion” sound set to see some of the more advanced capabilities of the synth, combining paraphonic mode with sequencing. I highly recommend Pro-3! kzbin.info/www/bejne/goTIp6uwd6qredUsi=fyPORsd4ZLxWK9Qq

The Rev2 is connected to one of the USB MIDI host ports of the MIO... and the MIO connects to computer via Ethernet/RTP, through a Netgear network switch.

Yeah, they made a lot of the changes I was hoping for, with issues mentioned in this video. I ended up selling my keyboard, but am going to get one of the desktop units at some point in next few months, and give it another go. Fixing the clicking/thumping is great news, and seems they made some/most of the items I outlined for the Atrophy/Vintage implementation... though I am still interested to see if its based on Slop/LFO motion, or if they've gone the route of stable curated offsets like I recommended. Anyways, good news that they made this update! I may do another video follow up once I pick up a desktop unit.

@@CreativeSpiral Awesome! Your continued feedback can only help. I have the desktop on order and am interested to find out those details as well! Thanks so much for your contributions to the community and humanity :)

Yes, you can create mellotron style sounds! I made a Strawberry Fields Forever patch using samples.. and you can even add an envelope to cut off the sound after 8 seconds, to emulate the sound cutout of a real Mellotron.

Thanks! It's an Arduino animatronic project I built to respond to music (www.M1D1bot.com) Also, built a different device a few years back (www.MusicSpiral.com) Cheers, Jason

@@CreativeSpiral With all of this new fangle sound engines, we need light shows to accompany what we play!

There is a keyed random source, so you can definitely do it.

@@BullyMaguire4everas Jason has pointed out on several occasions, randomness is not the secret to “vintage” sound, but rather stable offsets to pitch and envelope timings. Perhaps Moog could be persuaded to add “voice number” as a mod source.

Thanks! Yes, it works on PB12 as well... I made a sound set of 120+ patches for PB called "Fundamentals", and have been playing them on PB12 this past week... they sound great, and benefit from Poly AT as well! sounddesign.sellfy.store/p/polybrute-fundamentals-sound-set/

Thanks for the reply! This is awesome! I was actually going to go for the OBX8 but this will allow me to have more polyphony along with vintage vibes when I want.

Oh, and I finally had time to purchase the set- I am now a one-man 80's tribute band!

Yeah, pretty intuitive and easy to get going... but its also very deep when you get into the modulation sequencing possibilities. In this other video, I go through some of the more advanced stuff you can do: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHe7poSnd9mGfpI

Thanks Scott!

Thanks! Yeah, still have the Pro 3 and don't expect to ever sell it! Love the Pro 3's modulation sequencing, paraphonic mode, and that trinity of filters.

@@CreativeSpiral I bought your sound pack for it, I totally love your presets!

Thanks!! I don't have a P5 to compare with, but I do have a Prophet 6 and a Take 5. I did spend several hours A|B testing between those, and was able to get identical sounding matches on virtually every tone I tried to recreate on 3rd Wave. The 3rd Wave has the exact same analog filters (SSI 2140 VCFs) that are used in the Prophet 5/10 and Take 5... so it has the same sort of resonant filter character... plus it has an additional 2p filter that can be used. One thing that is a bit different is the FM capabilities -- 3rd Wave has oscillator FM and filter modulation capabilities, but has slightly different character than the Take 5 / Prophet poly mod... mostly noticeable when you crank FM up into higher levels. Though I will say, I only use extreme FM on a small percent of patch designs. So, yeah, my feeling is 3rd Wave can definitely replicate 95% of what you're gonna get out of the Prophets/T5. The oscillator design is excellent on 3rd Wave, and it has great vintage voice modeling as well (like Sequential's Vintage Knob). I've got another video talking about the voice modeling on 3rd Wave: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWnRh6uZnrOGqJI And of course, as you mentioned, 3rd Wave can do a lot more too... compared to P5, it has almost 5x the amount of voices (24 voices, each with Prophet SSI 2140 filter)... so it can do huge pad and cinematic type of sounds. Plus it's four part multitimbral, so you can design complex layered sounds, binaural stereo patches, and advanced splits/stacks which you just can't do on the P5/P6/T5. And there's just a lot of extra sound design depth, and all the other osc engines on 3rd Wave that provide authentic PPG wave character, modern wavetables, Prophet VS waves, and the new sample based engine. I highly recommend it!

What are you using your Prophet for?

I have a P10 and a 3rd Wave, and I’d say that it really depends on how you’re using the Prophet. For a lot of sound types, the 3rd Wave can easily get Prophet sounds (which makes some sense as they share a common filter type in the SSI 2040), but I find that there’s a ‘analog-ness’ that’s a little elusive on the 3rd Wave. However, the circuit drift function comes close, and on top of that you can layer and pan voices for incredibly stereo effects that are impossible on the Prophet. I really love both synths, and think they have their own character, but if I had to choose one it would be the 3rd Wave.

@@coyotegeek ​The Prophets are definitely great synths!... Though, I've found 3rd Wave to have as much "analog-ness" as any other synth I have (including Prophet 6, Take 5, Moog Muse, OB-X8, Polybrute, and others I've owned) (Of course "analog-ness" is a pretty nebulous / subjective term) One objective thing that does seem to differ is the character of Frequency Modulation (FM), when pushed into higher levels. There, I would say, there is a demonstratable difference... But as I mentioned, in the sounds I create, I find I'm rarely using extreme analog FM / VCO modulation... if I want that sound, I may turn to my one of my other VCO synths... though, worth noting, the 3rd Wave can achieve many FM type of sounds that VCOs can't, because it can have super stable oscs and FM ratios, if you keep circuit drift off. A few things I recommend on 3rd Wave to maximize the "analog-ness": 1. Make sure you have the latest FW installed, as there have been several updates in the past year to improve the va hybrid-analog engine. 2. By default (for Init Patches), Free Running Oscillator mode is off... set Free Running Osc to ON, so they will behave like VCOs. 3. Set Env Retriggering to "Retrigger from Last Value", rather than retrig from 0. This is closer to how most analog synths behave for env performance. 4. Set Circuit Drift to somewhere between 30 and 150... this gives curated vintage style offsets to oscs, filter params, env timings, etc.. like Seq's Vintage Knob. (set Circuit Drift to a minimum of 8-15 for analog patches, even if you don't want any "vintage character"... just to give a little bit of analog variance to the osc tunings... if circuit drift is completely off, then it definitely won't sound like VCOs... ie: even the best calibrated VCO synths have +/- 3 cents tuning to per voice / per osc depending on the key/octave... if circuit drift is completely off, then the oscillators will be perfectly in tune)

Thanks!

Firstly, it's a hybrid analog synth... it's got twenty four SSI 2140 Analog VCF filters inside (the Prophet 5 filter)... Second, it has great VA oscillator implementation and vintage voice modeling, which can make it sound just as "vintage analog" as VCO synths. Third - people use "digital synths" all the time to create classic analog synth tones... have you never seen/heard an analog sound design on a digital synth? 3rd Wave is super versatile... I've created hundreds of patches, using all the different osc engines - including PPG, modern wavetables, VS waves, and the new sample based engine... this demo/soundset just shows off that the synth is capable of classic subtractive analog as well... I've got several other VCO polys (OBX8, Prophet 6, PolyBrute, Take5), and 3rd Wave can go toe-to-toe with them on "analog character".

Thanks Scott!

Thanks!

And so can a computer. But that’s not why so many people have come to love this synth; it’s ok if it’s not for you. Take care!

of course - but its only PART of what 3W can do - most of which others cant.

I can count on one finger the amount of synths that have the versatility and capabilities of the 3rd Wave. 24 voices with analog VCF filters x 4 part multitimbral -- and ability to do PPG, modern wavetables, Prophet VS waves, samples, and classic analog subtractive sound design. This demo/soundset isn't meant to be a comprehensive demonstration of everything the synth can do -- just showing off that it can excel as a hybrid analog subtractive synth for replicating the classic/vintage synth sounds that so many are familiar with.

Have a Iridium Keyboard som can do the same for half the price.

​@@jensrachuba-ps6qb Nope. Iridium keyboard is $3899 normal, compared to $4995 normal for 3rd Wave... that's not half on my calculator (78% of the price). (Both keyboards have sales occasionally... I do see Iridium keyboard is currently on sale at some shops, but even on sale that's not half. note: I got my 3rd Wave new for significantly under the current MAP/retail) Also, does Iridium have 24 voices? Does it have 24 analog VCF filters inside? How many multitimbral layers? You can go back and forth on the other specifics/tradeoffs of osc engine types and other specific features... but the raw voice count, analog filter count and multitimbral layers are fundamental attributes if you want to compare prices apples:apples. The Quantum MkII is the better comparison synth from Waldorf... and there have been discussions about those two synths head-to-head... but the Quantum actually costs $1000 more than 3rd Wave.

Glad its helpful for you!

I use the SoundTower Prophet Rev 2 Editor software to do deep editing / sound design on my Rev 2 synth.