Great question! In that spot, I am actually talking about lifting additional planted fingers (like the ring finger and middle finger). That said, I do think that people get a bit stuck with their pinkies. Obviously, it is a good idea to first build a firm foundation where you can rely on that pinky for fast runs and extra security when playing repeated chords, but for advanced players, being able to lift the pinky off when trying to get different colors and attacks can be wonderful. Nigel North is a master of this. Take a look at this video of him playing Dowland: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mInFZK2fnZeoo9ksi=afga9pmtw8ezZwev. So, I would say that it is VERY important to first learn to play with it firmly planted and then you can add flexibility : ) Hope that helps!

@@laudonschuett3019 That clarifies that - glad I asked. I'll stick to it (mostly) and I'll check out Nigel. Many thanks!

I will see if I can find any! This was something that was described to me some years ago and if I remember correctly it was a smaller lute. There might be a photo in the LSA Quarterlies but I don't know if the details of the straps are visible. Will get back to you!

@@laudonschuett3019 No rush, or no worries if it's hard to find. I've seen paintings with apparently a gut string or such tied between strap buttons at base and at body/neck joint, then this string hooked over a button on the chest (or pinned?). I'm experimenting with something easily adjustable more strapped in place around the torso, in addition to the over the shoulder strap. At some point you described preferring to move around the lute, rather than the lute moving about you. That's the ticket!

@ that sounds very similar to what they later Robert Spencer had worked out. Basically extra straps attached to buttons! : )

@@nealzshipe hi Neal! Great to hear from you : ) yeah, I do find that thumb under is a bit easier when the string spacing is closer but that might just be a personal thing. Are you thinking of diving in to thumb out? I do find it easier to jump back and forth between lute and guitar with thumb out so that is one advantage. I think I mentioned in the video that for whatever reason, I find my endurance is much better for my right hand with thumb out p and I alternation. Anyways, toss me an email if there is anything I can help you with! It’s definitely a slightly different world than thumb under : )

​@@laudonschuett3019 I’ve tried diving into thumb-out technique a few times, but unsuccessfully, I must say. My 10c is actually a 10/11 conversion. To keep it short, I’ve had more than one unsuccessful attempt at playing French Baroque lute music, as well as the music of David Kellner (using thumb-out technique). I find myself in a really awkward hybrid RH position, lingering somewhere between thumb-out and thumb-in. I’ve never tried thumb-out with anything on a Renaissance lute. I’ll ask an additional question if you're up for it: Is it just me, or are RH arpeggios much more challenging on the lute than on the guitar? For instance, a simple continuous pimami (or any variations along these lines) on the lute feels very challenging for me to maintain for long stretches, whereas on the guitar, arpeggios feel so natural and easy. My RH guitar technique was rooted in the release technique-swinging from the top knuckle and letting the finger return to its relaxed state after plucking the string. When playing thumb out on the lute, feels almost impossible to maintain this relaxed state with the thumb potentially resting on courses 10 or 11 of the lute with ima way down on the trebles. So much tension. As a result, I think I end up jumping my thumb around unnecessarily to avoid that feeling.

@@nealzshipe Some great questions! Keep in mind that I've never had a serious interest in exploring beyond Vallet, Kapsberger, etc. and so obviously arpeggios are just a much smaller part of the vocabulary of the music I play. That said, I did play theorbo for some years. Whenever I had continuous arpeggios, I just lifted my pinky off the soundboard and drew my stability from resting the thumb on a bass string (very similar to a classical guitarist). Once the arpeggios were done, I would lower the pinky back down. Similar to you, I found the stretch between pinky and thumb to be prohibitive when playing arpeggios. I think the instructions concerning pinky planting that have survived to us today are really for beginners. It is an important technique to develop but once it is there are definitely moments where it makes a ton of sense to temporarily lift it. As for adjusting to thumb-out, I find that I need to use a very different sitting position than thumb under and I need to tilt the neck higher. Did you experiment with changing your sitting position and neck angle when you were playing thumb out? Cheers, Laudon

@@laudonschuett3019 That technique makes good sense, Laudon. I'll give it a shot. It did feel a bit more like clawing than a swift pluck when my thumb dropped way down. I do think sitting position is something I've long overlooked, so I am glad you bring that up. I've not experimented with it much. I did try the technique of sitting on a "tail" from the strap of the lute, which helps to prop it up at an angle. I think Nigel does this?

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Sure! At least from your description, it sounds like you are touching the string (which is already vibrating) just a moment before you actually pluck. The trick is to initiate the pluck in the air and go straight through, no pausing. This can be a bit scary, especially if you are used to making contact with the string before plucking. It is also a bit different than some guitar technique which actually does have you prepare by putting your finger on the string before plucking. I would spend a little time just watching your right hand (you can do this on an open string or fretted note) and practice going right through the string without pause or without touching it first. As you get more comfortable with this, you can practice getting your finger closer and closer before the pluck. This helps improve accuracy. So I think that will help but if it doesn't, feel free to post a short video link on here and I can see/hear what is actually going on! : ) Cheers, Laudon

@@laudonschuett3019 Thanks! It seems to be helping! I just had a look at the Prelude, and saw the, slurs(?), at least I think that is what they are. I'm not sure how to tackle those lol, the notation kind of confused me. I've seen something about them called a legato on guitar? Not sure how to tackle that.

@@DuoVODs No worries, those are just "hold" signs meant to indicate that you continue holding those notes a bit into the next measure while you are playing the following notes. If you lift too early, it can sound abrupt. In any case, I put the prelude up for experienced classical guitarists so you can absolutely skip it if you would like and come back to it in a few pieces : ) I hope that helps!

@laudonschuett3019 ok, I understand. I'll still probably attempt it just for fun haha but thanks for the heads up. There must be other instances when you would hold a note without that symbol there, but I guess that's all intuition and feel. When you're playing the toy in this video, you tend to hold that first note while you continue on and it sounds way better when I do the same thing versus removing my finger from the fret.

@@Jaskiira Hi! The beginners guide from the LSA has a nice chart on page 14: storage.googleapis.com/lsa-files/wp-content/uploads/for-public/Beginners-Guide-Final.pdf As for reading standard notation, there aren’t a lot of great resources since tablature is generally what lutenists perform from but I do have an idea: I always advise students to make a standard notation score (on grand staff) of whatever piece they are working on. Generally, this is just for analysis but you could also set aside the tablature and instead learn directly from your transcription. Not only would you get more comfortable with the notes by making the transcription but then you would also learn the piece from it. I might start with easy things like single voice trebles and then move on to two voice pieces. I hope that helps!

@laudonschuett3019 Thank you so much! So happy I found your videos :)

@ thank you for watching!

@@TheAlfonsovaldes essentially! Though bear in mind that plectrum use almost certainly continued into the 16th century and so there were likely thumb out players using them occasionally. Yes, I do find thumb out easier than under when playing instruments with more than seven courses as well! : )

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches and I think it just depends on how you feel about it. If you decide to memorize, it allows you to look at your hands, to really get into the details and, at least for me, allows me to play a little faster. The advantage to reading is that you don't need to worry about memory slips (a serious concern when playing dense contrapuntal pieces) and, for me, I find it easier to add ornamentation and embellishments because I can see the structure of the piece in front of me. I usually tell students to try performing both ways and see what works for you! Keep in mind that what works in the practice room might be completely different from what works in front of an audience : )

Good question! I feel like the roll helps but I will have to play around with it.....I am sure there are instances, maybe at smaller cadences, when the roll would be too much.

Essentially lol it's funny because they rolled chords like crazy in the 17th century (see Mace's Musick's Monument) so maybe that's the way to stand out in the rep. I guess it is all relative : )

@@henrycross8776 it’s good advice. I’ve never had a stuck peg at home, though, so no control over the humidity : (

@@McSpicyYT interesting! So I just heard about these lute ukulele models coming out. From what I understand the idea is that it is tuned and basically played like a ukulele (so g c e a) but has some of the characteristic qualities of the lute (like the fact that some of the strings are doubled into courses). You could certainly experiment with using lute tuning, though if you decide to do that I would follow the intervals instead of the absolute pitches. This would mean that you would just alter the third string by tuning it down to B, so the tuning would be G B E A. This would allow you to play directly from lute tablature without having to lower all your strings, though of course you wouldn’t be able to play the pitches written on the 5th and 6th course and would have to make adjustments. Anyways, long story short, tune it G C E A if you are playing uke music, tune it G B E A if you want to be able to play some lute music (understanding that you will have to compensate for the missing two courses). I hope this helps, I think you are the first person I know of that has bought one! I hope it is fun to play. Cheers, Laudon

@@laudonschuett3019 Thank you this helps a lot! I've learned you can also make guitar tuned more like a lute if you tune the G down to F# making it a major 3rd from the D string instead of a perfect fourth. So maybe I could tune it to the guitar/lute tuning with only the 4 highest strings making it (D F# B E). But I will probably go with GCEA to start

@@McSpicyYT I think that is the right idea! If it were a baritone ukulele, D G B E would be great but I think on a standard sized uke, the higher tuning will work much better : ) honestly, you can just play all the guitar stuff up a 4th if you just pretend that it is D G B E and play. It gets a bit confusing if you are playing with other people, but if you are solo it is a piece of cake! Cheers, Laudon

Thank you! That is a great question. In the situation you described, using the very tips of the fingers on the 2nd course helps tremendously. In order to do this on the 2nd course, we need to really curl the fingers so that we are coming straight down on the string. Often students will think that they are coming straight down, but are actually leaning pretty far back. Checking this in a mirror set to your side can be helpful. For lower courses, it's a delicate balance that we all have to work out with our hands. We can't curl it as much as we can on the first 3 courses, so it is finding just the right spot and practicing it slowly and consistently so that you can do it reliably. Keep in mind that your arm, wrist, and hand can move and a slight angle change can make a huge difference. It is certainly a big challenge in the early stages of learning but just know that aren't alone. It's a problem we have all had to overcome : )

@@waylonwillie5736 I definitely rest my thumb whenever possible when using m and I alternation with fast runs. In fact, when I am playing a piece using m and I, I will also use rest stroke in the bass when possible, something I rarely do with p and I. I am actually recording a thumb out video today and will be sure to include more details! Yes, the two dots are M but obviously with m and I technique, you are just using it all the time : ) thank you for the great questions!

@@nealzshipe thanks Neal! Hope you are doing great : )

Thank you! You will run into pieces with just tons of cadences and you will have to decide which ones to slow down and which to basically keep in tempo but there is a range that gives you a lot of freedom as a performer and I think it is really helpful to slow down at some of these really nasty "double speed" cadences....and I think it sounds better : )

Yes, your last point is almost exactly it : ) The idea is to slow down the beat/the pulse, not just write longer notes. By writing notes that are "impossible" to play at tempo, it essentially forces the player to slow down, creating a rallentando. At the time, they weren't using words like "rallentando" or "crescendo" to indicate performance instructions and so this was a signal built into the music. Very rarely you will find some dynamic instructions. For example, in a Capirola piece (1517), he actually writes in "piano," but this is VERY rare. It just wasn't the way they were writing yet. Great question! : )

I’m sorry

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That's a good question and very hard to answer. I do get the sense that some pieces, especially transcriptions of vocal works like madrigals and motets, were sometimes transcribed with little effort to make them idiomatic on the instrument. Like the notes from the score were just directly converted to tablature without necessarily adjusting anything or thinking about note positions. Some of the Spinacino arrangements are like this, though they are excellent when you move some of the note positions around a bit. In general, I try to find a way to play it as written but I certainly don't hold the whole piece back for a nasty chord or an awkward moment....just not worth it. Most professionals accommodate at one level or another...I imagine they probably did the same in the 16th century, especially if their job with Queen was on the line : )

If it doesn’t help, no worries. I’m going to be making a video on speed and diminutions with some other ideas that might do the trick : )

Thank you so much!

That's very kind of you to say! Yeah, I'm hoping to be as methodical as possible to help the most people : ) Glad you are enjoying the videos. Cheers!

Yeah, I know iconographic evidence has to be taken with a grain of salt, but I also hate it when people advocate completely ignoring it. Now, as for the left hand thumb wrapping around, we also have written evidence : ) In the introduction to the Capirola Lute Book (1517), he recommends wrapping the thumb around. I find with with small A lutes that it feels completely natural and definitely opens fingering possibilities : )

interesting, my 2 cents as someone that only had classical guitar lessons. I was never taught to anchor a right hand finger but when I looked at flamenco and now lute it's an integral part of the technique not to mention 3 finger banjo haha. now I mostly consider are my fingers parallel or perpendicular to the strings. also rest stroke with the thumb gives me stability on guitar, happy luting

That's exactly how my pinky is placed most of the time : ) Very similar at least. I found that adding the ring finger became more necessary with fast, long passages (things over 105/110 BPM). The added stability really helps. Of course, if it is not a boon for you, don't do it : ) I certainly wouldn't if I didn't have to! Cheers-Laudon

@@banjoboy01 I’m actually planning an entire episode on historical thumb-out position. I think it will be the one after next!

Thank you! Hope you enjoy the other episodes : )

Glad you found it helpful! : )

@@laudonschuett3019 it was helpful, but more than that it was gratifying, because I like playing with vibrato. Thanks again. :)

That’s a good question! I’d have to experiment a bit but I would imagine it does. I’ve also found that certain notes, especially on the first string respond much better (my high D, for example). Right now, my frets are at maximum gauge for my action but I have a junk lute I can experiment with : )

@@DAVEBULLTROLL I think with the lute it ends up being very personal how you sit and hold it. It’s difficult. I’m glad you have found a way that works for you! I know even a lot of the highest level players struggle with it and are always looking for a better way. Cheers, Laudon

Thank you so much and I am glad you are finding the series helpful! That is a great idea for an episode. There is now a company (Muzikkon) that is putting out instruments in the $800 range, which is about what I paid for my cheap lute ages ago. I did have a chance to play a couple Muzikkon lutes and I will say that they were much better than I expected! I think that for an amateur player, they would get you through your first 1-2 years before you would want to upgrade. Here is the link to their site: www.muzikkon.com/collections/renaissance-lute. The easiest way to improve them is just to get some better strings (Aquila). I'll put your video idea on the list and hopefully get one up before the end of the year : ) Cheers, Laudon

Awesome. Thanks for the suggestion - I hadn't checked out Muzikkon yet. Great, looking forward to that! And thanks again!

@@MannyScottGuitarist thank you! It’s funny, when I was a classical guitar player I never used the other fingers for barrés but if I ever go back to playing guitar I certainly would!

@@laudonschuett3019 as a guitarist who loves the lute, I've adopted a thumb out renaissance lute technique as my primary picking method. Dropping the thumb down to the higher strings for lines has been a game changer for me.

@@MannyScottGuitarist I love thumb out and will be doing some future videos on historical thumb-out position! : )

@@waylonwillie5736 I am so glad you have found it helpful! : )

@@callenclarke371 I’m so glad you are finding these videos useful! : )

Definitely worth reading that Thomas Robinson "Schoole of Musicke" introduction. He used the ring finger all the time so I think you can use it whenever needed with absolutely no guilt : )

I fixed it....we are just going to blame these errors on my "dad brain." I've got a newborn and operating with about 3 and a half hours of sleep a night 🤣

@@laudonschuett3019 congrats! my foolish comments are from beer brain. it's interesting when you find different versions of a tune, I tried to look at the Cambridge books this summer, that thing's huge!

@@banjoboy01 thank you! And to be clear, don’t be shy when you spot an error. I would much rather know and correct it than let it sit. I really appreciate it! : ) Cheers!

@@MannyScottGuitarist thank you!

Thank you! : )

Thank you and great question! I'm always a fan of working on technique with music (as opposed to exercises), but one way you could go about it would be to: take a passage/phrase from a piece you are working on (a treble or single voice piece would be great for this) and temporarily take out the left hand (only play open strings). Spend a couple sessions playing the passage this way, keeping your eyes on the right hand and arm. It is really good to practice this both very slowly and then fast (back and forth), essentially just getting comfortable with the movement at different tempos. Once that starts to look and feel good, add the left hand back in but slow everything down and keep your focus on the right hand (it is very helpful to choose a passage with an easy left hand) and when you get comfortable with the passage, try it at different tempos. Basically, for a week or two, make the right arm movement the only thing you care about (ignore left hand mistakes, dynamics, etc.). If you make it your primary focus it will start to become automatic and then you can start thinking about other things again! Honestly, I think this is the best way to quickly get comfortable with a big technical change (hand position, sitting position, relaxing left hand, etc.). Just make it the ONLY thing you care about for a couple weeks and then it starts to become automatic. Much better than working on something for 5 minutes a day and it never getting better! Hope this helps a bit! cheers, Laudon

@@laudonschuett3019 This has helped a lot! I feel a lot better with my plucking, but I have another question. When I strum up with my index, I clear the next course no problem, but when I'm pluck down with my thumb, where should my thumb end up? I find a lot of times I'm sort of stopping my thumb right by the next string. I never hit it enough to actually make a sound, but I'm just not sure if that should be happening, since it's kind of hard to see a proper example anywhere.

@@DuoVODs It's a good question! It's very difficult to get a good camera angle (even over the shoulder) because the thumb disappears into the palm (at least with thumb-under). It would be nice to have an x-ray camera to see! Anyways, the short answer is that I am just letting it stop once the energy from the pluck is expended. I am not letting it touch or land on another string. Where it ends up will be a bit different though depending on how hard I pluck. Also, if I need to use the thumb again immediately afterwards, then I will also make sure that I am directing the pluck so that it prepares for what comes next. For example, if I pluck the 2nd course with my thumb but will need to use the thumb again immediately after to play the 4th course then I will hit the 2nd course and "bounce" back to the 4th. This might make a nice video topic. Let me play around with how I might demonstrate this and I will see if I can make one! These things are SO much easier to show in person when the teacher helps to move the student's hand but I will see if I can make something helpful! Cheers, Laudon

Sounds great too!

@@MrDyne01 thank you! : )

I am so glad! Don’t worry, there’s absolutely no rush getting through these and my plan is to leave them up forever :-) thank you for the support!