The Fundamentals of Lute Playing, Episode 27: The pavin

[@miqbri]

Well this was interesting, thank you Laudon. It honestly has not occurred to me that a Pavane or Galliard is a dance. I never even thought about people dancing with lute music for some reason. I just like the way it sounds.. Very interesting indeed and great that there is so much depth to the way you play as to even how it influences someone else's physical movement. I don't think anybody will be dancing to my lute playing but it's fun to think about none the less.

[@laudonschuett3019]

Thank you! I’m glad you are finding these videos useful and you never know, maybe you will have to play for some dancers some day : ) It can be a lot of fun and a bit scary!

[@hansekin]

@@miqbri pavai? Ahahah

[@callenclarke371]

To my mind, there are three errors that a teacher can make on KZbin. 1. The Rule Nazi (too pedantic and absolute in one's recommendations) 2. All data and no interpretation. 3. Lack of context and/or getting lost in the weeds. You do a great job of avoiding all these pitfalls. This is really great information for anyone pursuing the Art of the Lute. Well done.

[@laudonschuett3019]

Thank you so much! It can be a challenge but I am definitely trying to avoid these errors. I'm sure that I will fall into them occasionally but I'm hoping that I can self-correct in the comment sections and in future videos. Thank you again for watching!

[@callenclarke371]

At the end you said: "If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer." So here goes. Recently I've been pursuing a greater degree of rubato in practicing the fantasias and ricercares of da Milano. Is rubato more permissible in fantasias and ricercars? And, in terms of concertizing/performance, would this be a good way to differentiate XVI Cent. repertoire? That is, in general, applying a stricter sense of time to the dances, while being more permissive with time when playing a ricercar or fantasia? Understanding, of course, that I'm asking for a generalization, with all the exception that that entails.

[@laudonschuett3019]

Good question and a tough one because I hate to nail this sort of thing down. I think in general, yes. Of course, keep in mind that so much of this falls into the category of "taste." I'm sure there were players who used lots of rubato in the 16th century and some that used hardly any. In terms of my personal taste, with fantasies and ricercares, I just try to avoid too much rubato in the imitative sections (canons, etc.) because that imitation can really be clouded if you are not careful. That all said, I think you can do anything if it sounds "good" and your intentions are clear. At the end of the day, you just have to make your decision and stand by it. No matter what you do or don't do, someone will hate it and that is okay! I hope that helps a bit! Cheers, Laudon

[@vanessagreen3986]

I get the impression that in our modern culture, for the average person, music is disconnected from dance. I don’t know if it is because our culture is not very good about teaching people how to use body movement for expression but I can see how disconnecting learning music from knowing dance can cause a musician to be disconnected from the emotions of the music. In the case of rock or pop, I don’t know of any musicians creating music set to specific dance forms as we have lost dance for the average person. Then look at how people dance to it: trancelike convulsions from Being stuck behind a desk in a school or office and then stranded in traffic, or trapped in dysfunctional families where one can’t communicate at all let alone dance. Wow all this dance music for lute and everyone sitting on their hands at concerts. Maybe in the 16th century, the musicians would find this sitting odd? Perhaps learning the dances could help our culture very much, especially for classical guitarists who want to study life to escape the conformities of a standard classical guitar culture.

[@laudonschuett3019]

I definitely think there are a lot of benefits to dance. If you are learning to play a dance on lute/guitar, knowing the dance can really help capture the character and style. That said, there was definitely music for just "listening" in the 16th century (chromatic fantasies, for example) but it is hard to draw the line sometimes. I won't speak to the modern era, but I do think there are still some strong dance traditions: The waltz, tango, some Celtic dancing traditions, Indian dance, etc. Some of the hip-hop dancing is incredibly complex. I think the incentives are generally different today, though. In the past, dancing was often an opportunity to find a romantic partner and was one of the few social situations where it was appropriate for young people to be in physical contact. Today, that is no longer really needed so I think knowledge of dance forms tends to be less widespread. It's great exercise and I wish it did come back in favor. Some years back my wife and I took dance lessons at Arthur Murray and it was fantastic, just got too expensive : (

[@TheAlfonsovaldes]

Did the Pavane evolve into a purely instrumental form, removed from its origins as dance accompaniment?

[@laudonschuett3019]

That is a good question! Eventually, yes, but it is really hard to say when exactly. At some point in the 17th century we stop getting descriptions of people dancing pavins at all. And of course, composers continued to write pieces called “pavane” all the way into the 21st century. The hard thing to answer definitively is whether someone would have danced to a Dalza Saltarello or a Johnson pavin or Bachelor galliard. Because lutenists were often court musicians hired to play under a variety of circumstances, it would blow my mind if intimate dances did not occur with solo lute accompanying. That said, I’m sure some pieces were meant to be merely listened to. But would someone get up during the playing and start dancing? I don’t know. One might think that a work like the Lachrimae pavin isn’t meant to be danced to, but Dowland’s consort version of it actually would work beautifully for dancers (and it was technically his only official published version of the piece other than the song version). So I think the answer is that it probably depends on the individual composer’s intentions when writing the piece (though of course other people could then use it for other purposes) which is often really difficult to ascertain. For me, personally, even if I am thinking of a work as purely instrumental, I do think that it is better to at least keep the spirit of the dance. That said, a beautiful performance is a beautiful performance and I have heard many people play things in a way that is very different from me and I have come to really appreciate the variety. Sorry for the long answer but I hope that helps a bit! Cheers, Laudon

[@mattdbridges]

do you do zoom lessons?

[@laudonschuett3019]

Congratulations on getting the lute! I do offer online lessons and would be happy to chat about it. My email is [e-mail]. Just toss me a message when you get a chance and we'll go from there : ) Cheers, Laudon

[@josesolismusic]

I am interested in the subject, but I can't honestly handle your pronunciation, or even spelling, of pavin. I guess I have always seen it as pavane, or pavana in Spanish. I would have to get used to this new pronunciation, and see it somewhere else other than here as pavin. Right now, I can't stand it. I might try again later.

[@laudonschuett3019]

Hi! I’ve used many different pronunciations and spellings of pavane/pavane/paduana/etc. When speaking in English and using period pronunciation (OP), that is the correct way to say it. You don’t have to use it but because I work with OP with singers it has become my habit. Paul O’Dette also pronounces it this way as well as others. To learn more about English OP, you can visit David Crystal’s site: originalpronunciation.com/GBR/Home . Now, that all said, I’m not telling anyone that they must use OP. In the video I only complained that people tried to correct me when using it. So please feel free to use whatever pronunciation you like. In fact, you could change it, as I often do, when discussing particular repertoire (English, Spanish, Italian, French, etc.). The way I pronounce it in the video is just my standard way since I am an English speaker but I am not stuck with it. As for the spelling, that is straight from English sources in the late 16th century and early 17th century. Here is one example (understand that u and v were interchangeable): www.lutemusic.org/facsimiles/DowlandR/Varietie_of_Lute_Lessons_1610/k1v.png In fact, the English language at the time used variable spellings and you find multiple options in the sources. This is just a common one. Hope that helps!

[@josesolismusic]

@@laudonschuett3019 I really do appreciate all this information. Thank you. By the way, the facsimile you posted, is that for an 8-course?

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@josesolismusic Happy to! Yes, it is for an 8 course lute with 7 tuned to F and 8 tuned to D. It's a beautiful piece. Here is the link for full source in case you would like to play through them! www.lutemusic.org/facsimiles/DowlandR/Varietie_of_Lute_Lessons_1610/

[@josesolismusic]

@@laudonschuett3019 thank you so much. I'm just learning how to read tablature.

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@josesolismusic Here is a nice source that starts easy and gets progressively more difficult. Great for learning to read tablature!: www.lutemusic.org/sources/NewsidlerH/ein_new_kunstlich_lauten_buch/v.1_1547/pdf/