Thanks for doing this. Appreciate the info but would love a longer version. Basically what you already did but uncut and with some commentary on your thoughts/why you are doing things, changing settings etc. Walk us through the thought process.

Great for those of us who mix a lot in stereo and sometimes one to try atmos mix without all the stem bouncing!

This setup is almost like how my template is.

Can you tell me a little more about Soundflow? What do you use it for and where can I find some more info about it?

Way outside what I normally do but loved how the Binaural Atmos sounded on my headphones.

Hi Dave, Question: instead of using a master fader to control de input of the compressors why don´t you link the inserts to get the threshold linked? Thanks, great video!!! My workflow is very different, I use OBEDS and zones to panning using sends, in that way I can make automation to send the audio to different positions during the song. I also use a lot of movements with the Dolby Atmos music panner and make a template with the writing of those movements to use with the internal renderer.

The Lauten tom mics sound super also and let minimal cymbal bleed in YOU NEED TO TRY THEM!

So there is only right-left top speaker panning in commercial theatres, if sound is mixed as arrays?

As a consumer, I'm on a 7.1.6. I very much appreciate mixers who use 9.1.6 monitoring in their mixes.

great video! keep it up!

it isn't one or the other, just use both

One workaround to hearing the spatial coding in an Atmos studio setting is export your .mp4 dd+joc, convert it to an Atmos ADM + metadata with an application called Cavernize and then play that ADM in the Renderer again. This will essentially be a spatially encoded ADM you will be able to monitor and see how it will decode in terms of the objects and any that got grouped together spatially.

Thanks a lot for all the information really help just a question do you know proteus can be useful?

I liked what the 1176 was doing. Vocal rider seemed to put some volume sway back in to me. Thanks for the video!

David is there a guide somewhere to rerouting 7.1.4 from the renderer via Dante back into PT which I can then for monitoring via audiomovers. Struggling with this part of the puzzle.

Anyone else think that Atmos binaural -> all settings off -> played through stereo speakers -> sounds better than the 2.0 re-render?

So question, in a situation where you’re using your Sub as both Bass management (via interface crossover) and as LFE, does that have a chance to double the bass??

Thankyou Sir... 🙏🙏🙏 Excellent Video... 👌👌👌❤❤❤

Thanks David, you are good at… “ givin good guidance “.. thanks Bro

Super great video Dave. I was really adamant about using object beds for discrete locations, and I see that isn't as important. I still hope to see more listening parties being held in movie theaters. Maybe even Get some live performance theaters with the potential for immersive sound, kind of like the sphere in Las Vegas and other venues that support immersive live performances. I wonder how this kind of thing will translate in the future as well with apple Vision Pro, and future augmented reality headsets. Super neat to see how technology has evolved Within the past five years. Glad to be here to witness it🙂

In the renderer you're showing, it looks as if individual speakers that are part of an array can play individually. My understanding is that that's not how an array works. From the Trinnov Altitude 32 processor manual (p. 80): "...it becomes essential to be able to create an array of speakers: use several speakers to play the same channel. ... Similar configurations have been used in commercial cinemas for years." In other words, when a group of speakers are setup as an array, they will play the same signal. They will never be able to play individually. So that renderer is very confusing.

This is great David!!! Answers all the questions I had from the previous video. So the big problem is that this IS not how it works in any home system, even on a Trinnov. It SHOULD be the standard going forward. If the processors for home theater could do what the renderer could with arrays would solve SO MANY people’s problems that use higher speaker count systems.

great. well explained

Awesome!

How do you reference other mixes? Are you getting their masters to put in your renderer or is there a website or from apple music? If so are you using a separate receiver ? Or is it binaural and just your setup plays back just fine?

Thanks David….. I can some really cooool controls for Atmos…..it’s really does a nice job …. Gosh, they should give ya kudos for sharing. Yer the Man! Thanks.

Thanks for the video. I think the GUI is a bit confusing at first sight. It looks more like a step sequencer panner than a delay. 😀Having to manually apply volume variation for emulating a normal delay is time consuming, although you can do stuff that a normal delay won´t do easily, like bounce back at increasing volume after having faded. It can be great creative tool, but with limited scope for the moment I guess. I usually like to feed the output of a normal delay through an aux and use the Dolby panner and draw the trajectory and tempo with the inbuilt sequencer.

Thanks for this! Could you please do a video on how the different track widths are compatible with each other? How do I make my Atmos mix (done in my 7.1.4 environment) utilize all the speakers in a larger, e.g. 9.1.6 environment? Cheers! 👍

Pretty cool!

Excellent video! When mixing music I use the 7.1.2 bed with a few objects as well. Sometimes I do find in Apple playback panning objects the relationship between the bed and the objects shifts depending on panning, which can be annoying.

Hey great video and straight to the point! Any chance you have any downloadable Atmos Master Files from previous work you can share? Maybe we can study the mix in the renderer or just get an idea what music should sound like in your perspective via Atmos? Hope to hear from you, love the channel!

The communication delivery of this video was so “chewy” i hated listening. I was nervous listening to it. Could not focus!

Thanks so much for another outstanding video, Dave! One thing I'm not clear about: in the context of arrays and "coverage," how/why does the Bed interpret fixed pan positions differently than the same fixed pan positions in an OBED? This would seem to be at odds with the accepted language about the Bed, which is that its LCR, etc. channels are really just like objects that have fixed, unalterable panning data. I hope this makes sense, and sorry if I missed something. Thanks again for sharing your experience!

I also don't use, it's basically making an object based technology speaker agnostic. It's for people that don't understand the bed, or how to use it.

INTERESTING! So there must be some voodoo going on in that cinema or other commercial Atmos cinemas because that is NOT the way things mixed in the BED are reproduced in any home cinema, even the largest and most insane ones that use a Trinnov or Storm. It seems weird that the renderer is showing the balls with halo around them as if the “size” parameter has been engaged on everything. I’m gonna get a discussion going in our Atmos mixing group about this because this is a very interesting topic. Some things to discuss here: A) The Trinnov placement guide seems a bit misleading because they list the multiple side surrounds (LS, LS1, LS2) as an array. As you know an array is the same information duplicated through multiple speakers. In the Trinnov you can set up of those 3 left surround speakers as EITHER an array or discrete speakers which can then only be used if an object pans through. Something panned to Left Surround in the Bed will only come out of LS. If you want something panned to LS in the Bed to come out of LS, LS1, LS2, you’d need to switch to a different speaker preset in the Trinnov that has them set as an array. It will attenuate each speaker 3db and play that same sound out of all 3 speakers but then you lose the ability of an object panning along the wall to transition smoothly from speaker to speaker like it would in the regular preset where they are discrete speakers. Something very weird is going on in that theater you went to (side note, that’s amazing you got to play back some of your mixes in that type of space!) but from your pictures it looks like it can instantaneously decide when something is a bed and duplicate that sound in an array fashion or if it see’s it’s an object it places it discreetly to the one speaker. Also weird that in your pic when LS, LS1, LS2 are all showing on the meter, they are different level. You would think if it was array they would all be getting equal volume. When I was visiting LA last month, I was lucky enough to get to tour the Sony lot with Marc Fishman, and they showed us their Atmos mixing stages there which are basically small to medium size commercial cinemas. They have so many speakers, I counted 14 height speakers in one of the rooms! I asked if they are using any arrays and he said no, they are all set as discrete speakers. So they are not mixing with arrays. So again I’m wondering what the hell is happening in that theater!!! In any case it shows that it’s very limited to that theater or other commercial theaters but no device that would be used to process the home theater mix will behave that way so it’s a very limited thing for people to get music mixes played in a theater. Bigger point is it has me wondering what’s going on with decoding in theatrical? Even though the mixing stages have discrete speakers, is it doing the same thing when they’re mixing where it has some sort of ability to “on the fly” place a bed sound in the entire array and keep an object locked to discrete speakers? I’m definitely gonna follow up with Marc about that! B) Object Beds that you mention in this video seems like there is no winner other than for workflow but let’s talk about mixing in the Bed vs Object specifically for home theaters. Movie mixes like Ready Player One which are mixed as Bed only are stuck in 7.1.2. In every AVR or processor if you have 4 overhead or heights speakers, it takes the left top and duplicates that sound to Left Top Front and Left Top Rear. Same for Top right. So that way Bed height information will come out of all 4 of your top speakers but you still have discrete movement or placement for objects. If you have 6 overhead speakers though, Bed only height info will only come out of top middle. Most people find this frustrating and make a separate preset for movies like this that removes their top middles and uses only 4 height speakers so it makes that bed info cover a larger area. Also, anything mixed in Bed only will NOT use anything beyond the 7 ear layer speakers. So if you have front wides, extra surrounds, etc, BED information will NOT play out of those speakers. You would need to do something similar like with the heights where you make a separate preset where those extra speakers are setup as an array. Only the Trinnov and Storm can do that since in most AVR’s and processors arrays have to be setup manually and by sending that channel to an external device to duplicate it and time align and set the volume. So for home theaters that have let’s say an 11.1.6 setup with extra side surrounds and front wides, they really miss out on using all their speakers on mixes that are bed only. Thankfully, most mixes mixes use a combination of both where things that aren’t moving will be Bed but anything that has to move around in any way should be encoded as an object so all those speakers will get used. So to bring it back to your video, on an 11.1.6 home setup, something mixed in bed only or using object bed will sound identical. In fact the object bed will probably work better for the heights since that will have 4 discrete height locations rather than 2. Also, as I proof read this whole thing, it made realize that if every AVR can recognize BED height info and duplicate it on the fly, which couldn’t that be done with the surrounds or wides? That fact that even the Trinnov or Storm can’t do it on the fly tells you it must take some serious processing power. So maybe only in theatrical Atmos and mixing stages do they have processors that have the ability to see if something is bed or object and send it to the speakers as an “array” or discrete object.

Using proq3 in Linear Phase mode will solve this issue instantly.

I’m not a mixer but I’m a home theater enthusiast. Objects are very useful when listening in a home theater. It makes use of all speakers in that plane no matter if you have a 5,7, or 9 speaker base/bed layer. Same of height speakers. Objects allow the decoder to pan to all speakers in the object path. So objects for sounds that actually move is really important imo.

Thanks Dave for sharing !!! So valuable!! Have a good weekend !

I really love your vids David thank so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. I’m from Costa Rica and highly appreciate all the info you bring to the table jejeje In regarding the usage of OBEDS I would like to say that I started to use them about 2 months from now and I quit to them because I was having the problem that ok I mix using the obeds but later I won’t have option to manage the binaural settings of those instrument but just for the bed which IMO limits a lot of the creative stuff you can get in binaural using different distances…. Is funny what you mentioned about the adm Size cause indeed that was one of the first things that came up to visibility all of the sudden my files increased the size and sometimes I created 2 obeds but for some reason actually used 1 obedient for the whole mix so I was creating adm with a phantom OBED doing NOTHING jajajaja so yeah I agree that the upload of those files should be charged based on the size otherwise people won’t care and like I my case I sent 1 or 2 files like that I then realized it was a waste of space so fixed it for the rest of files I created ever since….

Very informative, Thank you.

I was going to make a comment about separating the FX and objects, due to compatibility with certain plug-ins only being up 7.1.2 or lower. In my current workflow, I used OBEDs for "dry" instruments, typically without reverb or delays, and then used the FX on the Dolby Bed. Especially being able to hear the before and after just at the click of muting the objects and default bed within the Atmos renderer is oddly super fun to me!! It will definitely be a consideration in my own mixes from here on out. I don't disagree with anything within this video, but I wonder how far we have to go to make sure how our mix translates to these mediums and still respecting the artists intent. This is where I think the idea of being a "mix engineer" in 2024 REALLY needs to be stressed to even bedroom producers. Because a speaker array system having single instruments coming from multiple speakers on the same side with the same content seems like it could create a different intent than what the artist had when making the song originally. A listening party of their song for the first time in a theater compared to in headphones or in a smaller Atmos studio could lead the artists to ask questions, such as "why does it sound like that??" And maybe this is just me, but if I go to see a movie in theaters, I really try to get in the center of the action as much as possible. If you're sitting where stuff is "hard panned" to the left or right side, you're still potentially missing some information that would otherwise be different than if you were sitting in the "sweet-spot", eventually giving you a different experience to everyone in the theater regardless. Hopefully the artist would be the one in the midst of the action hearing their album to the highest quality and intent as both them and mixing engineer had. But like you mentioned, could be a REALLY different experience for other sections of the room depending on how this mix was approached. I'm not an expert on speaker arrays or theater sound setup, this is all coming from my experiences of being a very non-religious movie goer. So please correct me if I am wrong on these ideas about public theaters and speaker arrays (would be a great video!!) But I am also making comparison as if headphones and a decent 9.1.4 setup are anything close to being similar (as of 2024). There is no comparison how good one is over the other, but we still have to consider it in translation. We haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to the quality and size of movie theaters that aren't 100% up to the Dolby Spec, but are the only ones available for the artist. I would pay good money to see/hear this demonstration and comparison in person, I feel like this would be a great educational experience for newcomers into Dolby Atmos!! Great video Dave.

Question on this discussion. Say I have a 5.1.4 setup in my room, and I make an Atmos mix using a 7.1.2 bed. I know with objects they will just get positioned in the room as best they can using the 5.1.4, but my question is about if you pan things to the side of the BED. Will audio panned to the sides in the 7.1.2 bed only come out of the Surrounds? Or will the renderer attempt to make a "phantom" side/rear and render thigns panned to the sides in a 7.1.2 bed between the fronts and surrounds, and then only things panned to the surrounds play 100% from the sides? Or, in this configuration, will audio panned to the sides of a 7.1.2 bed sound identical to audo placed on the surrounds? Thanks!

Thanks Dave, I feel like yours are the most practical Atmos videos I watch, all the time.

great video Dave ! honestly thx for putting out content like this, I feel like the world needs more clarifications on dolby in general. So , my take on this concept of the OBEDS is that I use them not because of any sonic differences but because of flexibility and ease. So let's take an example of purely using beds. Beds unfortunately as of now are limited to 7.1.2 (hopefully this changes in the near future :D). So that being said, if we were to bus elements to a 7.1.2 AUX in PT then to the bed or, directly to the bed in dolby, its ,limited to 2 height speakers. This becomes a problem as the output from protools is only sending out information for top left and top right, so even when you monitor in 7.1.4 (we are still inputting 7.1.2) , you will notice that the renderer is just duplicating the same signal for both the top front and top rear because it has no way of knowing the discrete information since its only outputting 2 heights. So , thats why most mixers would have to reach for objects when panning information on the heights especially if there are more than just 2 height speakers. So long story short is that I'd rather have an Object BED so I have full access to panning as much elements as I need to and have discrete spatialising possibilities of all 4 or 6 heights. This example can also be applied when we start to mix in formats that got beyond bed capabilities (7.1.2). Instead of sacrificing objects which can be very limited especially when working on films , it's more beneficial to have OBEDS set up to represent the format and mix through that. I hope this makes sense, but I also love your explanation on it and I totally agree with you in the sense that there is absolutely no sonic differences.

Great video, sir! Object beds are pretty fascinating- but I’m with you. Utilizing the beds makes better use of the arrays. If future-proofing a mix is the goal, the trend is that engineers and listeners will have more speakers in the future rather than fewer.

L A Y E R C A K E ;)

Thanks Dave - your videos are always superb references! BTW: The bed still is 7.1.2 , what is the best way to access the 4 top channels individually? Im not on the latest PT version. Thanks!

I find the audiosuite and plugin version of Insight give different results, the audiosuite version gives inaccurate results.

I'm making some praise music for my church and I really want the glory of our dark Lord to sing. Can you help me enlighten the sheep that have gone astray? All Hail his darkness amen

Hi, I'm very curious what version of Smaart you use? And do you know if there is a way to export a calibration file from Sonarworks that isn't 100% Dry/Wet? I'm trying to preserve some of the "naturalness" of my speakers. Thanks!