Interesting theory with at least one drawback. For your theory to work all recipients of coded messages would have to have identical sized dodecahedrons. From what I have read, no two of the found dodecahedrons are even closely matched in size or hole sizes. Have any metal casters tried to cast a dodecahedron? I have done a few small pieces of lost wax casting and would balk at trying to cast something so intricate.

Its use is more mundane! It has a similarity to the jig used in French Knitting. The dodecahedron used for the production of the woven gold wire Roman necklace. The holes for reducing the diameter of the woven gold wire necklace. This is fully explained on another website.

Well, this would certainly explain why the device was never cited in written sources nor depicted in art... Fact remain that the dodecahedrons found are different in size...

BRILLIANT SOLUTION.

More discs need found. Sounds legit to me.

Bletchley Park, before there was Bletchley Park!

I've been following along. In terms of finding additional items that would validate the theory, I would suggest looking at collections of dices, games, and toys. I'm thinking of the game Tabula Lusoria. I would think if a disc was discovered, it would have been easily categorized as the Ancient Roman top known as the Teetotum. I agree with @DataBeingCollected that Roman Brooches et al. are an interesting area to look in. The one thing that bothers me is the locations that these items were found. None were found in modern Day Italy or outside of the Roman Empire. If you could find something on the Eastern European connection.... That would probably the most illuminating..... I very much look forward to more updates. I've read up on Roman Dodecahedrons for a while now. I think your ideas are the closest to the true purpose of anything I've read.

This is a very compelling argument. The only problem is the lack of a single Roman code wheel used in the application as a cipher mechanism as demonstrated. That the dodecahedrons have been discovered in various places is a fact. The lack of a single Roman code wheel is also a fact. Until code wheels are discovered, I will believe the artifact was used as has been demonstrated in other videos, as a device to create gold linked chain.

Had any high felutin' archaeologists interested yet. Would have thought they'd be bustin'for an exclusive. Give Mr De-Dunckin' a match to light the powder keg beneath their comfortable bots.

how do you know which point is the starting point?

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKGzdmZ-ls-IhZo hier you will find the answer about your question abaut roman scutum - The only surviving complete Roman shield

I am following you along your remarkable path of solving this secret. My remark to the wooden disk: Your convincing validation relies completely on the wood shrinking and expanding in the right places. With the wood changing so much over time how can you be sure all of the holes kept their exact positions?

Hats off to you once again, Matt. Only a scientist or an engineer would think like that - I'm neither - so your geometrical analysis of the half circular disk provides further compelling evidence for me. January 2025 seems like a long way off and I look forward to seeing if the reverse side provides anything further.

Yes i am entertained

Compelling demonstration! A couple of possible objections: 1. for this system to be used among a network of a Legion's forts, each fort would need a matching encryption set. I'm not sure any two dodecahedrons are found with matching hole diameters. 2. Why should all the holes be circular? It would be a bit quicker and easier if holes were, say, square, triangular, round, pentagonal, etc. 3. A set of flat plates would be much easier to manufacture than this challenging 3D structure.

I’ve got a few interesting things to share, I am sure you’ve already looked into some of it already. I like your theory a lot, but I am still agnostic to it being the actual answer. I am rooting for you though. With that said, I think this is the most logical of the theories currently presented, and it is a promising speculation based on the evidence you have provided so far. Now on to the interesting speculative stuff I want to share! 1. Neolithic Polyhedra carved stone balls: These are mostly found in Scotland. Many were said to be made of “Greenstone” (more on this later). Just like the Roman Dodecahedron, their purpose is unknown, (some claim possible oracular use) and both objects represent evidence about knowledge of Platonic solids. They might have nothing to do with dodecahedron, but it is an interesting connection with the Platonic solids and especially the location where these have been found. 2. Roman Circular/Disc/Umbonate/Plate Brooches and Fibula: Some very interesting designs that might be consistent with dodecahedron. A lot of the designs of these brooches seem like a 2D stylized profile of a Dodecahedron in some ways. One flaw with this however is the preference for a hexagonal pattern for the brooches most like the Dodecahedron. With that said, pentagonal pattern disc brooches similar to the dodecahedron do exist. One fanciful thought I had while looking at some of the designs, what if a disc fibula could be a secret code wheel? I think unlikely as a code wheel, as many of these have been found, and I don’t recall any with letters. The 3rd century AD Værløse Fibula had elder futhark written on it. Still worth looking into. 3. the Pentagram itself: A lot of stuff here, quite a deep rabbit hole. I think there are two areas worth while. A. The mathematical side of things like you’ve already focused on, but especially with the Platonic Solids and the Pythagoreans. This here is also your direct Euclid connection. This is also your Carved Stone Balls connection. B. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight might shed some clues in the context of “greenstone”. Sir Gawain has the pentagram as his coat of arms and he is connected to the story of the Green Knight. In German, you also have the Drudenfuss, or elf’s foot, which is also the pentagram. I am not an etymology expert, but Drude, or an elf/alp/nocturnal spirit, it gives me “Druid” vibes. (Which could tie it back to the stone balls again.) I do think that the Pythagoreans and their mastery of mathematics, and specifically the platonic solids should not be underestimated with this. I think the probability is high that the Pythagoreans, (even if not directly involved with the dodecahedron), would have been a major influence from the mathematical side of things. Whoever invented these very likely had knowledge of the Pythagoreans.

Knowledge must be pursued thru discussion of opposing views, Great video!

Parallels to “Raiders of the lost Ark”, when the baddies only have one side of the staff head-piece. (Fun fact - the Map Room oculus scene is copied from the Roman Pantheon, which illuminates the doorway on Rome’s birthday.)

Your on the right track..persist

Brilliant.

Like the theory. Questions - The Angle between the 2 holes (to origin) is 6-8 degrees larger than a dod would support. The Distance between the pins is larger than (all or, if not, almost all of) the largest dods found. Also, one hole is missing on this wafer. A woodworker screw-up can be attached to all of these things, I understand. A persisting question is why was the dod disbanded and why was it only found in these areas (sea travel safety does not hold water). Also, can you imagine the number of these dods that would have to be produced to have communication between forts (not to mention that no 2 identical ones have ever been found). You have Tribunes, Legates, Prefects, etc. These things would have been found everywhere… Finally, the Army would not need this item for coded communication. It's just too much, with too many in the know; with hundreds of these code wheels everywhere. The theory is great, but I’m still in the camp of that it’s the original 'Swiss Army' multi-tool created by Gallic blacksmiths (ordered by Negotiatores/Roman arms merchants for trade w/ Roman Auxiliary troop arms officers) for measurement/procurement/(and sometimes) maintenance of Auxiliary troop, polearm weapon shafts.

I find this very compelling, but at the end of the day it's a very expensive gadget that merely tells someone else "use wheel 11". It provides no other useful function that couldn't be done in another way. Surely the message could start with "XI" as in your example the wax imprint is doing the same thing. Even without that info the recipient could guess anyway meaning this gadget was entirely redundant to the encoding or decoding process.

That sir is one heck of an impressive feat. It is without doubt a very realistic reason for the dodecahedrons and I really think you have cracked it. To me it is just too much of a coincidence that all these steps line up so perfectly for it not to have been their purpose. Congratulations

A very ingenious explanation. I like the extra encryption added by turning after each successive word. All you need to prove the hypothesis is any surviving wooden code wheel or even a written message that approximates a coded sentence. Great work. Congrats!

Good theory. It would be great if we could find evidence of those wheels.

My name is Alejandro Tadeo, Spanish. Translation by Google Translator. Since June 4th I have posted another unpublished theory on KZbin: It is a game with coins, coins are put in the largest hole, among them, silver or gold coins, the loading mouth is covered and the player throws it on a table protected on the sides with planks, before the player has to pay for the throws. The coins that come out are kept by the player and his interest is to get the gold or silver coin, which can only come out through the largest hole, through the rest of the holes bronze coins will come out. I have practically verified everything and explained it in my video DODECAEDRO ROMANO: SE ACABÓ EL MISTERIO. Also, about the Roman icosahedron I make a hypothesis about what was its use: it was a game with gold nuggets. I have not read any hypothesis for the icosahedron on the whole internet, except for error or ignorance on my part. The main hypothesis I start from is the necessary similarity of use of the dodeca and the icosa and as fundamental evidence I make, are the wear planes of the knobs that can be seen in most of the dodecas and I add that the missing broken knobs/balls are due to the breakage due to the efforts when throwing them on the sides of the table. Everything is well explained (including the wear planes of the knobs) in my video: DODECAEDRO ROMANO: SE ACABÓ EL MISTERIO. PARTE II, ​​dated 19th of this month of August. I also propose in the video, and in a comment of mine, that the interior of the Bonn icosa be analyzed with spectrometry, to look for gold molecules, as long as it has not been cleaned inside and the green verdigris or dirt allowed it. The same could be done with the dodecas, more easily because the mouths are larger. I repeat, I have everything well explained in my videos. (You can set the video to English subtitles via the video settings.) 285 years of mystery is a long time. Thank you for your attention and greetings from Spain. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJuZdJR9qN2niLMsi=uiSihDjP5Vxkid7m

There are mysterious carved stone ball shaped artifacts found in the North of England, Ireland and mostly Scotland. They have numerous bosses and defy explanation. Would be great to hear your analysis of those also.

Excellent. That is what is called a theory unsupported by facts. How about facts for a change? 1. They are precision made. Their sides are the same, and, which is very tedious to achieve, all five little balls sit evenly on the table, touching the surface, no matter how you put them down. That serves no practical purpose, except one: Showing the craftsmanship of the creator. 2. They are not standardized, having different hole sizes, and different sizes overall. That speaks against a specific standard use. 3. They have no wear signs, neither in the holes, nor on the little balls outside. There go a bunch of theories out the window, including the one in the video. 4. In conclusion, precisely made objects that have no evidence for being used for anything practical, of different sizes. The standout answer is that they show off the craftsmanship of metalworkers. Similar to a masterpiece required by modern metal workers before they receive their certificate. Like all other cultural traditions, this has a certain geographical distribution, explaining their range.

They put a candle in there and had a container that protects the candle from the wind, a lantern. Maybe there was glass in front of the holes, because the Romans already had glass. It should be remembered that wax was found in some of these devices.

Matt, In addition to my previous comments its worth also to mention the Bronze sculpture art of Dhokra in Kondagaon Southern India . Here lost wax techniques are used to make highly detailed decorative sculptures with thin wall construction in one pour. It would be a fascinating 'research' trip to travel there with your resin dodecahedron and employ them to make one ,from scratch , using yours as a pattern only to measure and copy . It could be filmed stage by stage and astonishing 'entertaining' video content obtained . The Roman dodecahedron has a sort of Eastern 'feel' to its design and its well recorded that historical trade from Japan through China India 'Persia' and western Europe influenced just about everything from cloth/textile making to fine art and sculpture. Still can't get my head around the balls being hollow. Just why unless of course your coding hypothesis is wrong and there is another military application. You lateral thinkers get working !!!

Baloney…all ready proven a knitting tool for gloves….why would you find these scattered everywhere in the dirt if it was so secret….nice try!

Saying Paulo (with a vowel u, not a consonant v) would have been correct for classical times, and is still correct in most modern romance languages such as Spanish and Italian. In classical times the "v" sound (voiced labiodental fricative) hadn't been developed yet. So the pronunciation here was grating unrealistic. PaVlo sounds extremely Slavic and not Latin at all. Straight V was the default shape for the Roman U (close back rounded vowel), being easier to carve. Round U is a modernism. Pronouncing a VLF for the letter v is used most liberally in French, and it feels equally common between Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian. Spain is the region with the most variety, having all three pronunciations of the letter "v". 1) Most Iberian languages betacize the "v" into a "b" (voiced bilabial plosive) sound. 2) As mentioned earlier Portuguese has the VLF "modern v" pronunciation. 3) Some rare regional dialects in the remote regions of Spain still retain the vocalic "u" pronunciation, which is quite pleasant and surprising, but it's not common at all.

Matt, an informative technical up load well worth watching--'How was it made? Bronze sculpture. By the V & A museum. This video contains all the wealth of technical complexity and craft workshop practice which the Roman dodecahedron makers must have used. After seeing all this anyone with a continued notion that they are a jig or form to make gloves might wish to reconsider . And the Romans had no portable heat sources such as compressed oxygen, propane or acetylene. Just how did the Romans make heat and control it . Did they have coke ? I know they developed leather bellowed air pumps to force air through coals and raise heat for forging but to control it for investment casting is out there . Is there a research paper?

I've given your hypothesis more consideration, and it simply doesn't stack up. IF the Romans used rotating wheels to encipher messages (for which there are no examples, no references in the historical record and no substantive evidence) they could simply do this with a flat plate or wheel inscribed with the alphabet, plus a set of encryption wheels. At a stretch, they could even do this with a set of slide-rule-like bars, no wheels needed. The set of wheels would not need different-sized plug holes at all. The wheels could be numbered, and all that would be needed is to indicate on a message which wheel was used to encipher,. Your elaborate wax impression system to indicate the dodecahedron and thus wheel adds extra nothing to security. The elaborate, expensive, complex, cumbersome dodecahedron would not be needed at all. So what you are proposing is an un-evidenced cypher system. which would not need a dodecahedron at all, and proposing it as proof of the function of the dodecahedron. Furthermore, even IF a dodecahedron was used, an intercepted message could easily be deciphered by someone without a dodecahedron, as long as they had access to the wheels. The dodecahedron adds no extra security above the what the wheels would provide. Finding the 'right' wheel from a limited set for deciphering would be trivial. As for your suggestion that a wheel might be rotated, say, every word, only one stud on the flat plate would be needed, plus any number of holes in the encryption wheel. The five-fold rotation system you propose would in fact limit the number of encryption patterns for each wheel to five, whereas a freely rotating wheel would allow far more cypher combinations. A nice hypothesis, but it does not stand up to close scrutiny.

Matt, you've clearly filled your mind with this object ,and, I feel would benefit by watching the many 'investment casting' videos on KZbin . Try to imagine exactly the same process filmed now and eliminate electric heating, gas blowlamps and silicon mould materials. Its amazing stuff . Plus we have files ,saws and steel tools . Jonathan

I do not understand that in this era, when the solution has been brought to us by a sweet lady one year ago, has to be repeated by others… it was resolved, now let a professional technical writer make it into s small free digital booklet and get it over and done. It truly baffles me that people posting here that this is the first time they see how it really works… it’s been posted on YT a year ago!

The problem is that most Dodecas dont have the same or any standardised holes measures - they vary very much. So this sadly wont work. Great videos though.

Incidentally, you fail to mention that wax seals were used by, and pre-date the Romans, so the practice of making wax impressions on communications was already established, adding credence to your theory, although your suggested purpose for a wax impression is somewhat different.

Centurion Septimus Publicus here. I am delighted that you find my bronze spaghetti measure so interesting. More seriously, your theory is interesting and well argued, although the video is rather slow. Problems include the archaeological absence of any of the other artifacts you show as part of the encyphering process, (apart from your proposed unfinished cipher wheel you show in another video) and the unlikelihood that a huge dodecahedron would be needed, or desirable, considering some of those found are very large. A small, discreet device would be more secure, and I can't envision a huge dodecahedron being used to make a huge wax impression on a huge tablet that would surely be better conveyed on smaller tablets without attracting great attention. Overall, applying Occam's razor, I lean towards a tool for making chains and rope, but your well thought-out hypothesis is worthy of serious consideration. But here's a challenge for you - there are also icosahedrons of a similar design, without the large holes - can you explain these?

I've seen a video on KZbin showing how they were possibly used for weaving gold chain from wire. It seemed more plausible to be honest. Especially when they demonstrated it using copper wire in the video. Explains why the opposing holes are slightly smaller in diameter as well. It's possible it's an early form of extrusion/loom tech. likely used by those working in precious metals to create fancy braided chain which may explain why so many have been found adjacent buried treasure.

I believe it's a game piece of some sort. Think about humans with nothing to do in the evenings. Look at it through that lens.

The first thing you need to know is that these objects are not of human origin. Had you actually solved this riddle you would already know that. A solid grounding in science, a fair bit of aptitude in mathematics and considerable problem-solving ability is required to fathom these things.

The different sized holes could be a method of selecting the code wheels involved. based on pivot pen size. The pentagon shape when combined with a hexagon provides a vernier permutation of 30 choices which accommodates the alphabet and special symbols like punctuation. Since the bronze dodecahedron offers 12 faces selected by hole diameter, it further increases the permutations. We also know that the dodecahedron is a platonic solid. While the cube would have 4 nubs and 6 sides, an inferior number of permutations would result. It is also possible that auxiliary sticks would have been inserted through other faces to provide a true code machine. Additionally, the dodecahedrons are not all the same size, so if they were in sets, the permutations of message formats become quite large. Code breaking is then a serious endeavor. The scratches along the edges of the dodecahedron are part of the key. Rather than a code wheel, the dodecahedron could be an authenticator. Rather than true decodeing, simply send a bunch of conflicting messages and the authenticator will reveal the right one. A message that takes a long time to decode is useless in battle. The courier would have a bunch of messages and if captured would confuse the enemy.with a which one is it problem. .

The Dodecahedron is a knitting spool for knitting fingers for gloves.

why do you need a cypher against illiterate tribes?

18:25 Thank you for your effort, and the length you go to. I do believe your hypothesis has merit, and this might be a good lead. However, we would need to find more, best more developed of these pieces, possible the other half of this one. Consider that, according to your hypothesis we are dealing with an element of military secrecy. That would mean that faulty products would be destroyed to begin with. Thus this disk being split in half can be part of that destruction before it goes onto the heap for further obfuscation. The split does go along the grain, so I would guess it was actively destroyed, and did not accidentally break in the process. Why? See your diagram at 18:30. The southern hole (past 6 o'clock) is not aligned properly, it would not fit onto the item, and if you would correct the whole, it would wobble. When the artisan noticed this, he might have decided to discard the piece instead of continuing work; which as well explains the lack of the western hole (at 9 o'clock). I think it's a good lead, and I am glad such pieces have been preserved. I hope more can be found. Other sites were dodecahedra were found and had the appropriate conditions could yield more examples. Sometimes the puzzle pieces are already there, but we failed to identify them as such, and as such had no clue that we could put them together. I am across such things in my hobby-studies of mythology, that make me laugh at times. Most people study one thing in particular very deeply, while I jump across the globe scratching many surfaces. One thing I noticed in that is that the Hindu Mythology about the Asura is extremely congruent with the history and practices of the Assyrians practices of war and conquest - and are even pronounced the same in their original languages. History of one place seems to have become the mythological stories of another. Which then begs the question about how many myths that might be the case. We simplify, we anthropomorphize, we deify (something the Romans still practiced, and not even Augustus could ward himself against as they simply did it against his will posthumously. After all, his humbleness was such that he could have only been a god and him rejecting deification was just more proof in the eyes of those who wanted to deify him. Kind of a Life of Brian moment in Roman History ;)) But I digress. Watching to the end: A stencil could be stolen. If your idea has merit, there would be no stencils. Making 5 holes is more challenging but far from impossible to require such tools. Do you think you could do a video that runs through the decoding of 1-3 actual vindolanda tablets with your method? - It might be dry, but... so is the sand we dig in quite often.

Now you would need support from at least one important (museum) achiologist, that enforces the search for more existing evidence. I'm sure there is plenty, as soon as the context is seen - given you are right. If you look at it with the approach of Popper, your theory is now hardened a lot in the direction of proof. We come to the point where others have to falsify you!

What the hell did I just skipped through in 35 seconds?

You may be correct.. A couple points of interest... I know many have been found but I don't know their size. I have seen a few years ago but I don't know of any study of their details. There would have to be at least 2 with the exact size, one for sender, one for recipient .. if not there would be no benefit to having a " key" . But logically we would expect that each face would be different in size so the decoder would find the correct size for the correct code wheel. Are the faces different ? It doesn't look to me that they are easy to manufacture , especially as they have beads instead of pegs. ... so making exact duplicates would be difficult ( I've made bronze sculptures ... but recasting has size problems and these beads would not be made from a simple mold and attaching them after casting seems unlikely to me .) but if you could find 2 duplicates in two different locations,... that would lend support to the idea. I doubt the "key" would be sent with a messenger. It is important to realize that it has to be a key which seems to me to be unnecessary as a substitution code would be normal operating procedure for the army and so they would not need a physical key . it would be in their heads or a letter combination would indicate the code to select to decipher....An alternate theory is they are connected to a religion like the one you mention. . Thanks for sharing your ideas. It is interesting.

5 holes? A tool to knit gloves?